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Reconciliation
User Topic: fWW has no memory of A
SecondHelping
Member
Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)

This is my Anti-versary weeks and my fWW and I had a discussion that I'd like some feedback on.

I'm still having a rough time with the memories/thoughts of what I know and read in emails. fWW has been great helping me through this.

We'll I mentioned that to help me heal I was wondering if we re-enacted the three acts they performed it might help me take the power back and not make the mind movies so vivid. I did not ask her to do this, I was just speaking out loud.

Last night she tells me she has no memory of what they did, and she didn't want to go back to that place (state of mind) to remember them. I fully understand it's painful, but it's brought up a big question for me.

How can she NOT have memories of what they did? She doesn't know, but I'm wondering if it's part of the compartmentalization that I read so much about. I believe that my fWW was a practicing commpartmentalizer for the few months they were together, but do those memories stay locked up in the compartment and get lost forever if she doesn't go there?

This would also explain how she never has mind movies and triggers. I asked her once if she had them and said no. She only remembers what happened when I bring it up. Not the A, but the specifics of the A.

I'm not trying to make my fWW hurt any more. I'm just trying to make me hurt less.


D-Day 1: Feb 1990 (2 yrs into M, kissing and a hickey)
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49- Me, fWW 43- Her (Amibroken)
OP- Deputy Chief of Police from the town next to us! (Age 37)
Married 25 Years, Together 28
3 Kids (17, 14, 11)

Posts: 487 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
LosferWords
Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

My wife would say similar things when I would bring up difficult questions about the A. She didn't straight up say, "I don't remember." It was more like, "This question really sucks, because I'm trying to mentally detach, and now I am having to revisit things that I have been trying not to mentally distance myself from."

I wonder if your wife is in a similar mindset.

It's a fine line between healthy and unhealthy, IMO. Mental detachment, and even using a form of compartmentalization, can be a good thing in order to maintain "Mental NC". On the other hand, if her recollection of these memories is something that you need to help you heal, and she is unwilling to do so, it could be construed as a form of rug sweeping.

My guess is that those memories are there, but she doesn't want to revisit them.

Good luck with this, SH.


Posts: 7097 | Registered: Dec 2010
Audrina
Member
Member # 31522
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I find it odd that she has no memories of what they did. I agree with the previous poster. She might not want to deal with it, think about it.


Me (betrayed): 35
Him:45


Posts: 266 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Canada
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

She remembers, she just doesn't want to talk about it because it will be more hurtful and she's not willing to be uncomfortable in order to help you heal. My H was a compartmentalizer during his A's, and he remembered every single detail from his very first A that happened 5 years before... and this is a man with a terrible memory on a regular basis.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Was she sexually abused as a child?


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6740 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Bikingguy
Member
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I don't agree that she remembers. My WW has always had a terrible memory and has a hard time with many questions I have asked. Especially the hard "how did you Justify it" type. She has talked about her not knowing the answer in IC many times and she cries a lot knowing how much I desire to know. This even came up in MC yesterday and MC said I might not ever get that answer.

I have resigned myself to maybe not every knowing many reasons/answers, but I certainly have the right to ask her to try - and she is.

I don't think this will prevent me from healing and getting to forgiveness but it might take longer. Not sure?

It is strange that I and the engineer and she was the socialoligy major and is the one having problems accessing many emotions!


Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 672 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
AStar
Member
Member # 39971
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I find it hard to believe that she doesn't remember. Sorry. Most likely she doesn't want to recall the events or speak about it. At least that would be honest. Not remembering? Does she have a head injury? Otherwise I doubt its memory suppression.


Me BS (41)
Him WH (45). EA and possible PA (denied)
D Day 7/21/2013
M 8 years - filing for D

**The cruelest lies are often told in silence- Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 115 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New Zealand
SecondHelping
Member
Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

No, no head injury. No, not abused as a child, but she was raped at age 16. She supressed that from then until IC after the A.

I know you are all saying she remembers but just doesn't want to tell me, but my fWW will answer any question I ask. I've only got the 'I don't know/remember to a couple of questions and this was basically where he took her for sex. She says she wasn't looking out the window in case she was seen.

She is doing all the right things and trying to help me as much as she can. It's just odd that she doesn't have memories of it...I think some of you may be correct, she suppresses them until I ask about them.

Not sure. We're going to talk about this more tonight.


D-Day 1: Feb 1990 (2 yrs into M, kissing and a hickey)
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49- Me, fWW 43- Her (Amibroken)
OP- Deputy Chief of Police from the town next to us! (Age 37)
Married 25 Years, Together 28
3 Kids (17, 14, 11)

Posts: 487 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

My WW has always had a terrible memory and has a hard time with many questions I have asked. Especially the hard "how did you Justify it" type

There is a HUGE difference between figuring out how they justified the affair, versus remembering about sexual details. I can tell you about the first time I was with every man I've ever been with, over the past 30+ years (including being molested as a child). I might not remember what we talked about, what I felt, etc, but the act, I remember all those details. So did my H with his "terrible" memory. He remember who touched whom first with each of his A's, where the hands were, where they were at when it happened, who took of what article of clothing, etc. Could he tell you about the sex we had last Labor Day with such detail? Not a chance. But this, the A sex, it was illicit and that made it memorable.

So while I would agree totally that some of the emotional details are going to be hard to cut through (and the why can take years to figure out), I would disagree that with a partner they were with just a few times they don't remember every sexual detail.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
kickboxer
Member
Member # 39858
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I also don't believe "I don't remember." when that's the answer my WH gives me.

I just don't.

I've known this man for 15 years. We've lived together for 14 years. We've been married for almost 13 years. I know him, and I know how capable his memory is.

I want the details. Every nitty-gritty disgusting bit of grime there is. I want to know ev.er.y.thing.

I don't believe we will be able to put this chapter behind us until the secrets are gone, and I know *exactly* what happened, with whom, and when.


BW - 42 (Me)
WH - 39 (2 ONS, 6m EA)
Married 13 years, 3 children
DD: 7/13/13
Status: Rugsweeping, I guess.

Posts: 248 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere Out There
Bikingguy
Member
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I don't remember where wW and I first had sex. We only recall the day as she kept a journal when we were first dating. We can guess where as I was not allowed in her girls dorm that it must have been at my house. I do recall other times and some with other GF's but not all.

WW cannon also recall where her and OM had sex. This was a 15 year supper long LTA. The lengh of time, the cheating act itself, and her ability to compartmentalize - I don't like it, but can understand.

I will say I personally believe the memory is there, she just cannot access it. I have thought about hypnotizing her but not sure that would work either.


Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 672 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
devasted30
Member
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Don't know if this really pertains to what you are asking, but I think it does.
Many years ago I caught my WS on the computer late one night - I questioned him about it and he told me he was checking football scores or some such thing. Anyway, the next morning, he went to get his haircut and I went down to the computer and investigated. He had been on a couple of BDSM websites and was corresponding with a couple of people. I sent them messages telling them that this guy was married and to step back - probably not quite so nicely. When my husband came home we fought most of the day - me accusing him of cheating and telling him that I was leaving - him telling me that he was sorry etc. etc. etc. Anyway, the next day we drove up to visit my Father and we stopped off for breakfast enroute. I never believed in repressed memories....thought it was psycho babble etc.....didn't believe someone could remember being abused when they were a child and not have known about it all their lives.....guess what? I only remember stopping for breakfast on the way up the highway - do not remember anything else about that weekend. Nothing else. I worked with my husband at the time and remember sometimes when I was there alone I would check his computer looking for something but not really knowing what I was looking for.
OMG if I had only remembered that weekend there is a chance all of this misery would have been averted.
So, I guess what I'm saying here is - yes, she remembers about the affair etc., but could have forgotten the specifics because it is just too painful to remember.
Hope this helps shed some clarity.

[This message edited by devasted30 at 4:32 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 1187 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
64fleet
Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

sorry to T/J jana, but

Was she sexually abused as a child?

what does this mean? Mine claims no recollection either, and was molested by an uncle at a very young age.

No timeline, no recollection of what happened, etc.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5395 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I can tell you about the first time I was with every man I've ever been with, over the past 30+ years (including being molested as a child). I might not remember what we talked about, what I felt, etc, but the act, I remember all those details.

Wow--people are so different! I had a long term boyfriend for five years before meeting fWH, and I just tried and I only remember two times we had sex (I remember because the circumstances were unusual). So, two semi-specific memories out of the most likely over 2,000 times we had sex.

As far as first times, I only vaguely remember my first first time. No other firsts, and nothing with details--very few memories at all with one guy I dated. I like sex, it's just that sexual stuff is all similar to my memory . . . I think that's normal too, right?

Last night she tells me she has no memory of what they did, and she didn't want to go back to that place (state of mind) to remember them.

fWH has told me the same thing. He was abused as a child and is very good at blocking things out. He has closed the door and it's nauseating to him to try to remember what happened with OW. While the A was going on, fWH would "shut down" and just do whatever OW wanted. Whatever would stop her from freaking out on him, including sex.

SecondHelping, did your fWW surrender to something she didn't want? Not saying it wasn't her fault. It helped me to read about emotional blackmail because OW was very good at that and fWH dissociated and self destructively gave himself over to her.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
SecondHelping
Member
Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

SecondHelping, did your fWW surrender to something she didn't want?

No, she was a completely willing and eager partner.

This was only a year ago. She's not trying to remember 15 or 25 years ago.

She can still remember the details of the kissing/hickey from 1990.

[This message edited by SecondHelping at 8:13 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


D-Day 1: Feb 1990 (2 yrs into M, kissing and a hickey)
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49- Me, fWW 43- Her (Amibroken)
OP- Deputy Chief of Police from the town next to us! (Age 37)
Married 25 Years, Together 28
3 Kids (17, 14, 11)

Posts: 487 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
ccw82
Member
Member # 40133
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I asked my husband shortly after D-day, and he said he didn't remember the details. Finally this last Monday we sat down and he spilled EVERY dirty detail he could remember, which was quite a bit more than he originally stated he could remember. I believe they remember, but they don't WANT to remember.


Me: 31
WH (1DumbHusband): 35
Married 5 years, together 7 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
TTs that came out as late as January 2014

"One is not tempted by that he does not want."


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Dallas, TX
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

My husband can remember if the details make him look better but forgets if the details make him look worse.

Posts: 666 | Registered: Jul 2013
ladya
Member
Member # 29184
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

I called it selective amnesia. In my case I found out 2 years after the affair had ended so there was some genuine memory loss. But, I also found out later that my FWH was giving me bits and pieces to gauge my reaction. Would I stay or go? In his mind he was protecting me. It took a long time to get him to understand every new detail was like d-day all over again and it set me back to the beginning. I think it is less compartmentalization and more self preservation. We have triggers and have a negative reaction. The WS has triggers and has a guilty reaction if they are sorry. Maybe she is afraid to remember too much due to the shame and embarrassment.


Me:BS married 29 yrs.
5 kids

Time really does heal.
EA D-Day May 2008
PA D-Day May 7,2010 (same A)


Posts: 883 | Registered: Jul 2010
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

64Fleet, I'm not Jana, but I was molested as a child, so I'll answer. My therapist diagnosed me as being on the dissociative spectrum. She asked me if I remembered my As, and was relieved that I did. During a dissociative episode (like split personality) one can legitimately not remember, because "the other personality" did that. But that depth of dissociation is rare. I wouldn't believe "I don't remember" without a professional diagnosis.

If I had to describe the difference between compartmentalization and dissociation, I'd say compartmentalization is an often healthy, deliberate technique (think EMTs) while dissociation is a subconscious mode we slip into as an unhealthy coping mechanism. Which can be controlled and cured.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1181 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
sportsfan
Member
Member # 9918
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

SH - I doubt that she doesn't recall roughly what they did but that's not the reason for my response which is that I caution you to push it too far. Why really go there? Whatever they did, well, they did it ... you know it ... she knows it ... for you both to relive it is not going to help you to take any power back ... its just gonna hurt. You're not going to enjoy it ... your W won't enjoy it ... and your R may suffer from it.

IMHO I don't think you should go there...


Posts: 1951 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: PA
SecondHelping
Member
Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

sportsfan,

After this post, I'm not going there or asking her to. She asked me not to ask her the next day and I agreed. WHen I mentioned it, I wasn't even thinking about her feelings until after I said it.

I'm still perplexed at the not remembering the A though. She has a bad memory, but can remember sharp details when she wants to.


D-Day 1: Feb 1990 (2 yrs into M, kissing and a hickey)
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49- Me, fWW 43- Her (Amibroken)
OP- Deputy Chief of Police from the town next to us! (Age 37)
Married 25 Years, Together 28
3 Kids (17, 14, 11)

Posts: 487 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
mrcpu
Member
Member # 38157
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

HOLY COW! When I read the original post I thought to myself "Did I post that and don't remember?!?!"

I swear this is exactly what I'm facing. Some of it early on was TT (although "minor" since I have her electronic diary). What happens now is that I bring things up and ask her questions and she tells me she doesn't remember. I can't really tell if she is actually blocking these memories or simply lying to me to avoid telling me, even though I have tried to show her that she can talk to me and I won't freak out.

There were a couple of really bad fights in our marriage years ago. One in particular occurred when I was watching TV and she walked into the room and demanded the controller so she could change the channel. I refused and she stormed off to our bedroom. Moments later I heard a CRASH and when I went to investigate I found my laptop smashed. To this day she can look me in the eye and tell me she doesn't remember this happening. I get very angry when I think about her not remembering. I would feel much happier if she simply acknowledged she lost her temper. Nothing pisses me off more than someone who lies to your face when you have evidence (I took photos of the smashed laptop).

I'm not really sure what I'm afraid of when I'm lied to like that, maybe I'm afraid that there is more I don't know and that the R is false.


D-Day 1: 22 Dec 2012
D-Day 2: 22 July 2014
Me: 40's WW: 40's Together 15 years
1st OM: ex-"Best Friend" of 30+ years
2nd OM: Local Realtek and serial cheater on his pregnant wife.

Posts: 223 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Toronto
64fleet
Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Nothing pisses me off more than someone who lies to your face when you have evidence

Mine has done the same thing.
I feel the biggest impediment to R is no recollection.

The bad part is wondering when she will decide to do it again(or maybe the other one decides?).


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5395 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
WhiteCarrera
Member
Member # 29126
Default  Posted: 1:23 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I agree with ladya! It's all about self-preservation.

I've said it before,and I'll say it again. "I don't remember" usually means, "I don't want to tell you."


If I want recovery, then I must allow for it to actually happen.
Is it possible that I actually do have all the truth now?

me - husband A46
her - wife A42
Married 17 years
D-Day August 2, 2009
3 kids 11, 13, and 15


Posts: 275 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Midwest
ccw82
Member
Member # 40133
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

Yes! A thousand times, YES! It *IS* self preservation, which is yet another form of their selfishness IMO.


Me: 31
WH (1DumbHusband): 35
Married 5 years, together 7 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
TTs that came out as late as January 2014

"One is not tempted by that he does not want."


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Dallas, TX
Topic Posts: 25