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Wayward Side
User Topic: Physical violence and WH
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Physical violence is not ok. It's also illegal...for a very good reason. 

Men are just as likely to be victims as women although far less reported. Men aren't often believed and stupidity is rampant connected with this crime. Some idiots believe that because of size difference no harm can occur. Yeah, lethal blows are quite possible whether the perpetrator is 5'2 or 6'2. 

I've read about men being kicked in the balls. Fucking really? 

I've been on this site over 3 years. I don't remember many men posted they smacked, punched, kicked their wives. They'd be wearing orange and looking through bars in no time. Most states don't even require spouses to press charges. If there are marks they go. Futures ruined. Jobs lost.

Blind rage is an excuse. Think men don't suffer from rage? They don't go primeval yet I've read stories that make me want to climb through the screen and go off on their wives myself. They control themselves because they know they will fuck themselves six ways to Sunday.

Women hit men because they think they can get away with it. It's really just that simple. It can become a real habit. That blind rage can become a default. Domestic violence is a progressive condition. Once you do it and excuse it the next time is oh so much easier.

Wayward men, please do not allow your horrific choices to enable another to start making their own toxic soul changing choices. Do not tolerate violence. Nothing good ever comes for tolerating shit. Nothing. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

There is definitely a double standard. Physical violence is wrong, period.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13647 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Women hit men because they think they can get away with it.
And more often than not, they do, thus enabling them to do it again. It's easier to fly off the handle than work on finding better coping skills. "Blind rage" is acceptable when it shouldn't be. EVER.
Do not tolerate violence. Nothing good ever comes for tolerating shit. Nothing.
Indeed. Very well said, UO and I completely agree.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Sorry this was TG, thought I was logged in.

[This message edited by hardlessons at 1:10 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
BeyondBreaking
Member
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Message: Agreed.
Just as there is no good justification for having an affair, there is no good justification to be physically violent with your spouse.

There is nothing the BS did to "deserve" being cheated on; There is nothing either spouse can do to "deserve" being hit/punched/kicked.

***Do not delete your posts***

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:35 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Now logged in.

I have never understood the double standard. Physical violence is never ok. And should not be tolerated by either gender.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4521 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
fdupbigtime
New Member
Member # 39719
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

In the first few weeks after d-day I was a victim of physical violence. I let it happen, I felt I deserved it and if that was what she needed to do to release then she could. It went so far as my lying on the kitchen floor bleeding from getting hit in the head with a flying mason jar.

I finally stopped it one day, told her she would never hit me again. When she's really angry or I have inadvertently triggered something, I sometimes revert and tell her she can hit me if that is what it takes to let the anger out. Thankfully, She has yet to take me up on my offer.
I have caught myself restraining her when her rage gets so bad that I'm afraid she will hurt me or herself.

We are working to heal. I know it's a long process and we are only a couple months into it. I keep telling that when all the anger and rage subsides, I will still be there.

[This message edited by fdupbigtime at 1:46 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 5 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Fdupbigtime
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 2:02 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

BeyondBreaking...

This thread has nothing to do with any WS justifying and/or excusing cheating. It's about violence.

Please stay on topic.

Thank you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196517 | Registered: May 2002
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

BS here and haven't ever posted in Wayward, but am because I've been on both sides of the violence.

TRIGGER FOR DESCRIPTION OF VIOLENCE:

My first marriage was incredibly abusive, emotionally and physically. I've had the bruises; I am familiar with the whole scene.

After DD#2 with my current WH, while the OWs were actively emailing with me, giving me the full story when WH wasn't, they told me he had bought them things.

We have six children, all living at home, two at the university, where WH is also a full time student. I work overtime at an underpaid job so stress filled, it's hyperbolic. I support everyone. And I budget the heck out of everything out of utter necessity.

And WH bought those OWomen recreational things with that money. Claimed he earned "more than he needed" to them.

When I confronted him, he wouldn't talk. Just gave me a stubbornly blank face. (He was still completely immersed in fantasy land at that point.) I was on my knees. I begged, pleaded, demanded. Nothing. Finally, I slapped him. He wouldn't look at me. I slapped him twice more, realized what I had done and stopped, stunned and horrified.

He's literally twice my size - 6'8" to 5'2". Weighs double my weight. And it didn't matter. I hit him.

There is nothing I regret more about my reactions during that awful week of TT. It was completely wrong of me. I was terrified, desperate, and WRONG.

I will stand behind the statement that ALL physical violence is wrong, with both perspectives.

I will, however, say that this:

Women hit men because they think they can get away with it.

and this:

Men are just as likely to be victims as women although far less reported.

Are bullcrap.

Women hit men for the same reasons men hit women. Women don't have secret ulterior motives and schemes "to get away with it." They respond out of fear, anger, jealousy: you name it. Just like men. Amazing that - women and men responding the same, without the gender disparity bullshit. PEOPLE responding the same.

And the statistics don't lie, guys, about domestic violence and what percentages are of who hitting/killing who. LOTS of women never report DV, just like men, but:

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/library/crime-information-and-statistics/intimate-partner-violence

People shouldn't hurt people.

Let's not take a good message (Violence is BAD!) and taint it with the way too common: "When it comes down to it, women responding like men shows they are SO MUCH WORSE, because they're WOMEN."

It was terrible to be brutalized. It was terrible OF ME to slap WH.

Edit: fixed tags.

[This message edited by Reality at 2:33 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Are bullcrap.

Nope. Men are victims of Domestic Violence at an alarming rate and it's horribly unreported.

You may not agree with what I said about why women hit men. I feel very strongly that many of the women do it have that thought process somewhere in that shit. How do I know? Because they've told me in DV support groups I've attended and some of the women I've responded out on calls with.

Quite a few of them were outraged they were being arrested.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

There is nothing the BS did to "deserve" being cheated on

That has nothing to do with this thread. Look, everyone can come to terms with the way they reacted or responded. My thread was posted to men that feel they deserve being kicked, hit, shit thrown at them. People get seriously injured and die from that.

Almost every abuser feels their victim deserves it. You read that on here. I hear it. My ex felt if he wasn't so stressed and dealt with so much shit at work he'd be a saint. Yeah? Well he didn't punch the guys at work.

You find the "blind" rage people reference ain't blind at all. It's quite targeted and laser focused. They're not whacking away at whomever happens to be standing near. If they have control enough to target they also have control enough to not.

Everyone has to deal with their own choices. Don't let "your" guilt or shame make you a target. You destroy two people. Yourself and your partner.



Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Men are just as likely to be victims as women

Do not tolerate violence. Nothing good ever comes for tolerating shit. Nothing.

Yep.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Oy. That link SHOWS men victimization, too. I'm in no way I'm denying it happens. Heck, I told a story about it.

BUT.

Problems don't get solved by pretending all other problems don't exist. Gently but frankly, isn't that the very thought process that most people in this forum have been troubled with to extremely sad results? I include myself in this issue on this forum.

Men are outraged at getting arrested for hitting their wives/sisters/daughters/mothers/SO, too. Men and women get upset when they are discovered doing all manner of terrible things.

There isn't a need to make the issue gendered. I agree with your stance on physical violence, but NO, the smaller percentage of female on male violence shouldn't get vilified by some special gendered expectation, especially with the numbers involved pointing the other direction.

People shouldn't hurt people.

[This message edited by Reality at 4:24 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

but NO, the smaller percentage of female on male violence shouldn't get vilified by some special gendered expectation, especially with the numbers involved pointing the other direction.

Disagree, until women are as horrified by their choices to be violent and there is as much stigma attached to a woman being violent with her husband, then ya, we need to be vilifying this act. If a man came on this site and casually spoke about slapping his wife, how well do you think that would fly? Yet it has been flying for a few days in another forum, because it is women doing the slapping and hitting.

Our culture absolutely has a double standard with this. It is time to stop it.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4521 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

That's exactly my point, TG. The act is wrong no matter who does it.

It's not worse for women to hit men or men to hit women.

BOTH ARE EQUALLY WRONG.

GENDER literally shouldn't matter. Building in additional weighted response because of gender trivializes and distracts from the issue.

Should women get called out on it just as men are now? YES. Has is always been verboten for men to hit women? NO. How did it get that way? By changing cultural expectations. I can't see that placing additional rather than equal blame for the same choice will ever help that. That just turns into zero sum yo-yo games.

Let's address the issue as people. Call it out no matter WHO does it or WHO the victim is, regardless of gender, pigmentation, orientation, or any other sub-classification of PEOPLE.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I agree. I think what is being said is that this is not happening.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4521 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

Reality, gender shouldn't matter but it does. I've been a member on this site for over 3 years. I have never read a post where a man talks about hitting his partner, kicking her in the vj. Never. I can't tell you how many threads I've read where women do it.

If gender isn't a factor why is that so? Think men don't have rage? Think they don't feel the same pain? So, two options...they do it but don't post because they know how it would be viewed, or they don't do it. Either way it speaks to just how differently this crime is viewed.

I've seen how some police treat men who have been battered. Discounting their injuries. Asking what they did to cause it. Sound familiar?

You're absolutely right that problems don't get resolved by pretending other problems don't exist. And yep, the process used to discount the actions of some is exactly why some members of this forum are here. So that needs to stop, right? Bad shit is bad shit regardless who's doing it. Period. The gender skew of my post reflects the very real and easily verified environment it's posted in.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I see it happening. Is it lagging behind where men are on the subject? Yep, but that applies to many experiences, unfortunately, in gender disparity. But will it change by making it a Women's Issue versus Men's Issue? Nope.

No hitting. No cheating. No lying. No abusing. No stealing. No murdering. No violence.

Sorry to sound like I'm morphing back to my parents' hippie tie ins, but love is what it's all about. Treating people LIKE people and loving them for it tends to make all the bad stuff go bye-bye.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
badchoice
Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I will weigh in as well.

My BW hit me a few times after Dday.

Slaps/hit to the head, hits and a couple of scratches too. Not a lot, but more than once or twice.

I too got to the point where I started to put down boundaries about this, and verbal abuse.

She was remorseful, posted about it here on SI. I know she is sorry she did it, and I am sorry I allowed it.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 725 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
stilllovinghim
Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

UO, you mentioned upthread about blind rage and being "zeroed in". How true that is and I never thought of it that way. Just blind rage is blind, end of story. I remember several years ago my mom hitting our DS with a switch that left long red welts across his legs and took several days to go away. He was 3. I grew up with that shit and her justifying it, its in my past, whatever. To rage on my child, however, was different. I'm shaking right now just remembering it. Anyway, I saw black except for the broom handle and my mom.

I've never hit my mom growing up. I've blocked her, but never struck back. I knew when I saw my sons legs and when the room was going black that I was going to beat the ever-loving shit out of my mom. I KNEW exactly what to do and how. I was so fuckin zeroed in I could have shot lasers. I stopped myself though. I said some choice words, left then called the police.

Our DS isn't around her, BTW. Anyway, blind rage I get. I've been there more than once. Sometimes I walked away because I knew what I was capable of if caught. Other times I didn't walk away and was a monster.

As far as women hitting men and thinking they can get away with it, whenever I stood up to a "man" to fight, I was ready. Not because I thought I could get away with it. I was ready for one of us to be laid out. I clearly remember the emotions and some of the thoughts and they damn sure weren't "I can totally get away with it". However, I know there are women who do hit because they think they can get away with it. Its a mixed bag sometimes.


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Oct 2010
ArkLaMiss
Member
Member # 14918
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

my mother shot my father 5 times, laid the gun on the ground and watched him take his last breath on this Earth. I was 15 years old. She was an abusive monster. She has been in prison 31 years.
My dad was an amazing father and was getting remarried just 3 days later. Some people are just evil. You never get over things like that. Never. Not even 31 years later.


Just HOW stupid do you think I am, exactly?

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jun 2007
Taurus517
Member
Member # 37958
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

@fdup

In the first few weeks after d-day I was a victim of physical violence. I let it happen, I felt I deserved it and if that was what she needed to do to release then she could

I found this post and I have been thinking about this subject and just didnt know how to put it. As fdup said is how I felt. I have cause this pain and anger by having an A, I felt I deserve every punch, slap, push, verbal, and scratch because I pushed her to this point. After three incidents I told myself enough on the physical, I can take verbal all day but physical I was done with.
The fourth time it happened I got slapped 2 times and I got angry so walked away and from that of course I made the situation worst then from that I felt I deserve it again because I started feeling horrible again because I see how hurt she is and that is fine, she apologized but its still fine because I caused this.
I know its wrong to get physical from both parties but is it wrong that you feel like you deserve it because of the pain and suffering you caused someone else. You dragged them through hell and back and destroyed their whole entire world and dont expect some repercussion from it, I think you deserved all that. I'm just a confused person right now and I just want her to vent her anger out and who is the best person to do that to than the person that have caused the issue.


Me: WS 31
A : 17 months
Her : BS/WS 26 (ShockedErica11)
A: 3 months
DD : 3
Relationship : 4
Married : 2
DDay : November 2012
Her DDay : June 2013

Posts: 71 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Chamblee
ShellShockedSid
Member
Member # 29068
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

BW here.

I slapped FWH on two separate occasions, both shortly after dday. It was absolutely wrong. And, the second time, it scared the crap out of me. I know this sounds horrible, but it felt good. It made me feel powerful at a time when I was powerless. That when I knew it was a problem, and I asked for forgiveness. I will never allow myself to come close to that line again. I feel shame for being that person, and I regret it more than anything I've ever done.


BW: 46, me
FWH: 48
DDay: 1/22/2010
Reconciling.
"Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think." Christopher Robin to Pooh

Posts: 307 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Texas
ShockedErica11
Member
Member # 37550
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

My sensei always told us when I was training as a kid and teen that the moment you lose your temper is the moment you lost the fight. He said that even if you beat your opponent to a bloody pulp, you still lost because you lost control over yourself.

I am completely guilty of this. It angers me because quite frankly, I usually walk away. I've always walked away, but what ShellShockedSid said is very true. Does that condone my actions? He'll no, and it devastates me that I've become my Dad essentially.

This entire situation is becoming an incredible shit storm. It brings out the worst things in people; the worst characteristics that someone never thought they possessed within themselves or, on the flipside, characteristics they've always been terrified that they possessed and of which would eventually rear it's ugly head.

Abuse is wrong regardless; I feel like I should know better than most because I was trained to not lose my temper at all, and this situation makes me feel like things have undone a lot of things. This not a bid for sympathy; it's just incredible how broken people are or how broken they become.


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
Steppenwolf
Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)

I can't see that placing additional rather than equal blame for the same choice will ever help that.

I think the status quo places "additional rather than equal blame" on abusive men, no? So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think UO was trying to inspire some intolerance from the victims of the often overlooked or unreported other side. I think balance is the goal here.


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

I can't see that placing additional rather than equal blame for the same choice will ever help that.

There's that word again. Blame. Can we leave the nursery school playground for a moment and quit the blame game?

Just reading on this site you can see the difference in how DV is treated. Some have posted with glee and fuck him. He deserved it. It's no longer about him anymore. You just crossed the rubicon. You can never take back what you've done to yourself. You have allowed yourself to let another's actions forever change who you are.

Taurus and f'up (just saw your story. I missed it. Dear God!!!), please please stop letting her injure you or herself. Her abuse is damaging her right along with you. Your actions have consequences. Being beaten ain't one of them. Just as you could leave so could she. She could start divorce proceedings. She's now starting that cycle. She loads on it. Every time she entitles herself to feel that rage and lash you with it she's hard coded that reward and dissolving any integrity she has.

You betrayed her. The shit she's doing now has nothing at all to do with you or your affair. It has everything to do with her, her choices, who she is. Just as an affair is not about the spouse or marriage neither is this shit. It's about power and control and you have both to stop this now. You need to. Stop. This. Now. Not one more hit, punch, scratch. Get yourself to safety and call the cops. Same exact thing we tell women. Violence doesn't know moderation.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 2:15 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

(((ArkLaMiss)))

Oh, God!!! I'm so so sorry.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Stillstings
Member
Member # 36549
Default  Posted: 1:08 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

Uncertainone, I felt the need to log in and reply to this topic.

In college I worked along side our Women's Resource center. While most were very compassionate women AND men, there were a few that I had to shake my head at. On a few occasions during group sessions I heard 1-2 female *women's advocates* give free passes to women who assaulted the men in their lives. Not out of self defense but anger. The motivation is the problem like you said. Women have reasons, men are assholes. BS control yourself. Slap or punch who cares? Physical damage is never okay. It is abuse regardless of who throws the fist.

My thought is that someone who hits in anger (BS or WS) feels they have some sort of power and a sense of entitlement. I've worked in social services. Extreme anger quickly loses boundaries and spreads to other people. Think you can limit your rage to your BS/WS spouse? Guess again. Your children, pets, family, friends, co-workers, paperboy/girl will be feeling some of your ire. It will escalate too if you choose not to reign it in.


Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 347 | Registered: Aug 2012
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

(((ArkLaMiss))) I am so sorry. I know what it's like to live with an abusive mother.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5624 | Registered: Aug 2007
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:37 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

POSTING AS A MEMBER

Women hit men because they think they can get away with it. It's really just that simple.

I don't think it's simple at all. We all try to find the "whys" for our behavior here, but the complexity of each individual, and the relationship in question, is so deep that I have a hard time with agreeing that "Women hit men because they think they can get away with it."

I know - I DREAD that this is getting back into the old argument of "does the 'out-of-control' state actually exist or is it an excuse?"

The thing is, the only true case that I can report on of a woman hitting a man is my own because I am supposed to be in charge of my brain and body and I was there the day I slapped the hell out of him.

The thing is - I. WASN'T. THINKING.

I didn't remember I was female, he wasn't a male. We weren't in a room painted blue and he wasn't sitting and I wasn't standing. All that existed of me for those three to five seconds was white hot rage and a slapping hand. I remember pain and wind, and when I look back upon the moment it is as if I am floating over my own body, watching it happen in horror.

Am I accountable for what I did? YES

Should the police have been called to haul my ass off for attacking another person? ABSOLUTELY

Was the fact that I was a woman and Crazz a man part of a gigantic double standard regarding how women seem to get away with being physical with men at a disturbingly disproportionate rate? YES AGAIN.

It is not ok. Ever ever ever. A man should never have to give up his physical or emotional rights to anyone.

The point I'm taking issue with is the comment above. That women do it because they think they can get away with it. Maybe some do, but I definitely didn't. I wasn't thinking at all, and when I recaptured my errant brain cells and saw the moment for what it was, I was horrified and ashamed.

There are some BW's here who seem to fit that same description, and it is in defense of them that I wanted to say something. Their actions are not defensible, but I don't like the idea that they are being labeled as having somehow premeditated the attack. Some may have, but not all. Certainly not me.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16435 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 3:35 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

Jrazz, I didn't say it was premeditated. Totally different thing. What I stated was they think they can get away with it. You know why? Because they do. All the time.

This may be an annonymous site but it is a public forum. Ever see men posting about whacking their wife, throwing a phone at them, kicking them? I haven't. Ever. Not even joked about hypothetically. Why? Most men know all too well it's not a casual or joking matter. It's time, legal fees, supervised visitation, no access to their home. Hell, that's when accused waiting for trial whether they did it or not.

Seeing how many posts made by women, some very remorseful, others not only not but quite proud of it, yeah, I'm thinking they felt pretty confident they'd face no consequences legally. About 90% haven't.

One member on this thread had his wife throw a mason jar at him. On the floor bleeding. Think she was worried about cops and cuffs? She should be.

I do have a real hard time accepting the "I wasn't thinking at all". Maybe because it has NEVER been tolerated on this forum regardless of bi-polar manic episodes, snot slinging drunk, hiiiiigggghhhhh.

I remember the first time my ex struck me. Every cell in my body turned into a fist. I knew if I did that I'd be sitting in the back of a squad car, right where I should be.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
AnneOther
Member
Member # 38368
Default  Posted: 4:15 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

Until a woman hitting a man carries the same social stigma (and legal consequences) as a man hitting a woman, things won’t change.

I don’t think the reason a betrayed wife lashes out physically at her wayward husband IS because she thinks she will get away with it – I don’t think rational thought even enters the equation. She hits because she can, AND the fact IS, she will (99% of the time) not just get away with no legal repercussions, she will also often get kudos from some quarters too.

I have witnessed this happen often when a woman attacks a man, but I have never witnessed it when a man attacks a woman, certainly where infidelity is concerned. I have never heard a betrayed husband being told not to be too hard on himself for slapping his wayward wife around on d-day, but I have heard various versions of that excuse trotted out when a betrayed wife has attacked her wayward husband.

People in Singapore don’t throw litter on the ground half as much as people in US/UK/France or wherever, I don’t think this has anything do with inherent differences in Singaporeans versus the other nationalities, no, it has to do with the fact that Singaporeans knows they’re going to get a considerable monetary fine if they do so, so they refrain from doing it.

Lack of social stigma coupled with lack of legal repercussions allows wrong doing not only to continue, but to flourish.

[This message edited by AnneOther at 4:17 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Posts: 72 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: U.K.
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 4:56 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

Well, since everyone wants to argue about who does what, this link seems to contraindicate the view that men are brutes and women are angelic delicate little flowers.
http://www.domesticviolenceresearch.org/pages/12_page_findings.htm

The methodology for collecting data in the previous link
http://www.victimsofcrime.org/library/crime-information-and-statistics/intimate-partner-violence
is clearly flawed as it is based on criminal statistics, and will thus carry all of the biases associated with the law and it's applications. Besides the old fashioned ideas, one of the reasons for this fallacy is the consequences of these violent acts. Men tend to be larger, I am used to being 20% taller than the women in my life, and 50% to 70% heavier, then there are the general skeletal efficiencies. (did you know that for the same weight class in powerlifting men are expected to be able to lift as much as 40% more?) Men are generally capable of inflicting more serious injuries with the same amount of effort. That's not really a good moral standard though, sounds like all the murderers in prison with Dahmer saying "Yeah, but I never tried to eat them."

I saw a sign once that said "Except for ending slavery, oppression, and genocide, war has never solved anything." It seems that despite what everyone's mothers and teachers told them, sometimes violence is the answer. We all have it in our toolbox, the question is about when we feel it is appropriate. Like any tool, using it has consequences, if we are rational we are only going to use it when the benefit is of more value than the consequences. Part of the implicit deal with the soldiers who ended slavery, oppression, and genocide, was that they would not be facing the normal consequences for their actions. Nobody would sign up for the military if we told them they would be charged with murder and assault after the fighting was over.

When the consequences are light enough, then yes, people do believe they will get away with it. Practically speaking, women have far more reason to believe they will get away with it. The legal consequences are much less likely, and there is even a high chance that it will be the man who she attacks that will face the legal consequences.

There are other consequences to resorting to violence as well. Men are very familiar with these, though they usually apply when one resorts to violence against someone bigger or stronger. We learn these lessons early on, in the playground, and in sports. (When I played hockey, sometimes I was the consequence for those who resorted to violence, because sometimes 2 minutes or 5 just wasn't enough.)

There was also a belief back then that it was wrong to hit girls, for any reason. This meant that the only girls who would learn of these consequences were the ones who got into fights with other girls. Now how many of those who think it's okay to hit men think it is also okay to hit women?

Yeah, I do believe that the reason people hit their partner is because they believe they will get away with it. In the case of women, they are unlikely to face the legal consequences, and do not believe that the men will hit back. In the case of men, they do not believe that their wife will call the police, and are not worried about being hit back.

Paraphrasing Robert E Howard (or was it Robert Jordan?), barbarians tend to have far better manners than civilized men, because they know they could find an axe embedded in their skull. (Now why does Chrome think that axe is a typo?)

UO is absolutely right about the posts here. I have never seen a man post about hitting his wife, regardless of how horrified he already was, without "not cool bro" responses being the kindest and most understanding things said. I have also seen a lot of posts over the years by women, often bragging about it, and it used to be 50/50, and depend on who got respond first, whether it would condemn the violence in a gentle manner, or be filled with a chorus of "You go girl!" Thankfully that last reaction appears to have been phased out.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 7:37 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

aesir, nobody is arguing, they are sharing their thoughts and experiences.If you see a problem, please contact a moderator

Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
overandone
Member
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

"uncertaine"-Blind rage is blind.Nobody else in the house apart from WS,nobody else" happened to be standing near" for me to avoid.I don't think at the time I had the mental capacity to think "I'm female,not as strong as him,therefore it doesn't matter and I'll get away with it".Try asking any of the women whether they had much in the way of rational thought running through their heads when they hit their WS-I certainly didn't.He was the one who cheated,not me.NOT a gender issue.I just happen to be female,no idea how men's brains work!
One build up to the black rage is the knowledge that you have been emotionally abused-this is what a WS does to their BS during and after an affair,but there is nothing you can do about it.If someone stole or damaged your property you would have recourse to the law.With an affair there is no recourse-your world may have been blown apart,with the resulting anger,sadness, depression,low self esteem etc.This does not excuse physical violence in any way,but may go some way to explain it.Again,not a gender issue. I am ashamed I hit my husband,apologised to him,and have kept my promise to never allow it to happen again.My thinking now is a thousand times more rational than when I hit him,at times I believe I was sectionable.

However,I notice a belittling of emotional abuse several times reading the SI forums,but the scars are much deeper and longer-lasting than a slap on the head in anger.This is especially applies to a LTA which is planned and executed carefully over a period of years,with no care of the consequences to either the WS or the BS,and certainly not done on the spur of the moment during a period of extreme emotional distress.This applies to both genders.
I have also read here of men who,though not actually hitting their WW,feel it's ok to shout in their face-a very threatening behaviour in my book,understandable but not acceptable either.
We've all done things in our lives we're ashamed of,mine being using physical violence which I abhor and of which I am rightly ashamed.But I have to forgive myself,in the same way I have to forgive WH for his A in order to move on.
Too much gender issue here,We're all people.A few random thoughts from his better half....

[This message edited by overandone at 7:38 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 206 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
overandone
Member
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

A worrying aspect I've just remembered reading in another topic-several women (BS) turning their anger onto themselves,with self-harming-do men do this as well?

[This message edited by overandone at 7:46 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 206 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
ShockedErica11
Member
Member # 37550
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

A worrying aspect I've just remembered reading in another topic-several women (BS) turning their anger onto themselves,with self-harming-do men do this as well?

Not to t/j, but this what I did to myself when I found out. I harmed myself because I figure there is something inherently wrong with me. On numerous occassions, I have cut, battered, bruised, slammed into and hurt myself. I figure I should hurt myself more than him since there must be something wrong with me, but that is not a rational thought at all. In that vein of thought, hurting myself IS a form of control over myself and my environment. It is a means of controlling me. It's fucked up, yes. I agree. And this situation makes me acutely aware that I have to learn newer coping mechanisms, and strengthen the ones I did have in place before which failed because I lost my faith in them.
/ t/j


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

OMG ArkLaMiss - I am so sorry!!!!! (((ArkLaMiss)))
I remember the first time my ex struck me. Every cell in my body turned into a fist. I knew if I did that I'd be sitting in the back of a squad car, right where I should be
I too remember the first time my ex hit me - remember it like it happened yesterday. The ONLY thing that kept me from fighting back was the fact that I didn't want to go to jail - turns out, I was also about 6 weeks pregnant at the time. So, I would've been locked up & pregnant.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

One build up to the black rage is the knowledge that you have been emotionally abused-this is what a WS does to their BS during and after an affair,but there is nothing you can do about it

Do you honestly believe that's a BS thing only?

Look, I'm not judge and jury. That is NOT what this post is about and I've stated that. That's up to each individual to determine how they feel about their actions (those that engaged). It's about any WS particularly WH that believe they should accept and allow themselves to be abused.

There are several who have posted on this site. When women post as waywards about husbands hitting or in any way becoming physical with them threads go pages with BW's flocking to tell them to run, call the cops, get safe. Very good advice. I've seen WH post here of absolutely horrific shit and that part is just glossed over. Hops right to the what he needs to do to help her feel safe.

When the advice is given "Do whatever it takes" it's very dangerous advice. Allowing another to abuse you doesn't ever erase the past, fix the present, help the future. It's just two very messed up people destroying each other.

Shame is no excuse not to protect yourself. Courage is needed for fixing this process and it starts with making yourself safe, for yourself and others.

ETA: So, I would've been locked up & pregnant. Oh, MJ

[This message edited by uncertainone at 10:56 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
mrmaximum
Member
Member # 15965
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

"uncertaine"-Blind rage is blind.Nobody else in the house apart from WS,nobody else" happened to be standing near" for me to avoid.I don't think at the time I had the mental capacity to think "I'm female,not as strong as him,therefore it doesn't matter and I'll get away with it".Try asking any of the women whether they had much in the way of rational thought running through their heads when they hit their WS-I certainly didn't.He was the one who cheated,not me.NOT a gender issue.I just happen to be female,no idea how men's brains work!
One build up to the black rage is the knowledge that you have been emotionally abused-this is what a WS does to their BS during and after an affair,but there is nothing you can do about it.If someone stole or damaged your property you would have recourse to the law.With an affair there is no recourse-your world may have been blown apart,with the resulting anger,sadness, depression,low self esteem etc.This does not excuse physical violence in any way,but may go some way to explain it.Again,not a gender issue. I am ashamed I hit my husband,apologised to him,and have kept my promise to never allow it to happen again.

Sorry that you had gone through that and good to hear that some changes had been made. The point UO is trying to make is that BH's cannot use blind rage as a reason to hit their WW’s. A BH could have said exactly this and it would never fly whatsoever, UO stating exactly how it's dealt with on this very site. Is hitting anyone acceptable, there isn’t anyone on this site who would say it was but the issue seems to be that a BW hitting their WH doesn’t seem as unacceptable.


You do not destroy the ones you love!!!
Best quote EVAR;
"Lose the battle, win the war" EZ4U

Posts: 64 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Georgetown
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

There have been several male members who have admitted to hitting their wives here in the 2.5 years I have been a member. I've seen two cases that I can recall. I wouldn't just say that to back my case, but I'm not going to drag names into this. As staff or a member. I don't think it's fair or helpful to say that there have been zero incidences.

I agree that the fact that women are more open about disclosing their assault definitely lends itself to the line of thinking that many may assume that the consequences should be lighter because of their gender - which is a shame.

I'm not disagreeing about the disparity of consequence or the fact that people are aware of it, I'm saying that some of the general statements as to WHY women do it seem to be assuming that we sit around thinking about assaulting people and leveraging the consequences.

I was taught never to hit people or animals (spiders were horribly misrepresented in our house, looking back...) I teach my daughter to never lay a hand on anyone or anything, or herself. I hope that the message of the general inappropriateness of hurting others sinks in to her, and that she understands that right and wrong should be blind to gender, race, religion, or disability. I hope that we can all help steer each other towards this mentality.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 10:52 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16435 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

I feel that some women hit men because they believe they can get away with it. I also feel that some men hit women because they believe they can get away with it.

T/J ArkLaMis ~ I am so very sorry for the tragic loss of your father.

Taurus517 and fdup ~ YOU DON'T DESERVE ANY PHYSICAL ABUSE!!!!!!! Your BW's need help with their anger, you both need to get away from them until they are getting help for their violent outbursts. You both need to get into counseling immediately to get help to realize that you don't deserve the abuse, no matter what you did. fdup, you broke my heart a little when I pictured you laying on the floor bleeding. Dude, you don't deserve this shit!!!!!

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:05 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
asurvivor
Member
Member # 32368
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

I have read posts off and on from this site since 2006. I have seen a few men admit violence but very rare and never ever did I see one say he didn't regret it or somehow admit to having enjoyed it and "she's lucky she didn't get more". I have seen that from a woman pretty much every time the thread is started. Hell, on a recent thread one woman said she would have killed him if he called the police. What all that means I'm not sure but there you have it and it's sad, really sad.

[This message edited by asurvivor at 11:21 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know.



Posts: 505 | Registered: Jun 2011
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

Thanks, Jrazz. You said it exactly as I was trying to and not seeming to communicate based on the replies.

It's never okay to be violent. It doesn't matter the gender of either party. What matters is a choice being made that's WRONG. I would rather focus on that choice than on the tangential variables that vary for each situation. Every situation is different except for that choice.

Cultural norms and expectations evolve (or de-evolve) continuously. To make real long lasting positive chance, people have to be treated the same, rather than different rules for perceived categories.

Men shouldn't accept violence perpetrated against them because of cultural expectations. Women shouldn't accept violence perpetrated against them because of cultural expectations. There's no excuse either way.

[This message edited by Reality at 11:27 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

Stupid picture Friday

Any questions?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Pentup
Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

UO thought the same thing when I saw it. It does bring home the gender inequality (generalization) about strength though.
Do not advocate violence at all. Have seen a few guys admit to it here and have read and responded that he could be jailed. Same response I give to women.

There is often a difference as Aesir pointed out in size and strength (and i would add skill/fighting style)that is why laws/society whatever do not enforce equally. A slap for a 110 pound person is going to inflict less damage than a fist from a 250 lb person. It just is. No matter the gender. And I think that is part of the reason you see an imbalance in arrests as well. A slightly red cheek 30 minutes later when a cop shows up is not going to illicit the same level of horror/sympathy that a black eye or swollen lip will. All of that has nothing to do with gender (in my opinion).

I have protected myself in situations that required it. I too felt that rage after dday. I did not succumb to violence then for a myriad of reasons. However, I can understand, not condone, how it can happen. For either gender that delivers a slap dday, I would caution them to get a grip, find other ways to handle themselves, etc. Gender having no impact on my advice. I also do not judge them for that initial reaction. I can see how all reason can fly out the window. I do not think it makes it ok and I think they should not be surprised if there are consequences, but I understand it. I hope I never get on a jury over it because I would have a difficult time if it was a one time response to a horrible situation that inflicted no permanent damage. Again, not based on the gender of either party.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6432 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

UO - could you imagine the outrage if that pic was displayed with the roles reversed? Yet, as is, it's considered funny. SMH. These double standards piss me off.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

inflicted no permanent damage

No offense, Pentup, but who are you to determine that? Think being hit doesn't last long after any physical evidence has faded?

I'm not judging. I'm simply stating it's skewed so offered support and encouragement to get safe.

Oh, your slap and punch example is very biased. Who says the 110 pnd (female I'm guessing) is gonna slap but the 250 pnd (male also guessing) is gonna punch?

By the way...a punch to the throat can easily be lethal regardless of the weight and size of who delivers it.

ETA: I know MJ.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 12:06 PM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Pentup
Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Exactly my point for not using gender when defining the method and physical description. It does not matter. I would add that is why when a 10 year old child punches an adult, we do not typically call the cops. It is a size differential issue.
I should have stated permanent physical damage.

Emotionally... I am not going there.
Again, I have been on the receiving end. I know that side better than I ever imagined I would. I have protected myself in that situation at times and other times took it because when someone is bigger and more angry sometimes not defending yourself is a smarter short term decision. I am not condoning violence. And I guess lots of people we this as a very clear defined issue. I, personally, do not. Maybe my cave woman is showing, but I think there are times when it is ok to hit. If I ever saw someone abuse my dog, I would knock the hell out of them (male or female) Would I go to jail? Maybe. If I did, I would understand the consequence, but I would still feel justified.
I am gender neutral on the topic. I do think there is a bias out there. I do not want to see any person live in fear.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6432 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
asurvivor
Member
Member # 32368
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

What really bothers me about all this is the use in posts of..."there is no excuse for this" followed by a "however or a but, or a it's understandable"

Is there really a... however or a but or an understandable for trying to physically hurt someone other than self defense? I guess in some people's world it is, I'm just glad it wasn't in mine.

I used to work in a rehab hospital, I don't think people realize how easy it can be to permanently injure someone. Unfortunately, I see it way too often on the road, in a store at a ballgame...it's not just over an A, and it just seems like people feel entitled, and these are the adults that our kids see everyday. Think about that next time you lose your shit.

[This message edited by asurvivor at 12:28 PM, August 23rd (Friday)]


I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know.



Posts: 505 | Registered: Jun 2011
Sadwife222
Member
Member # 40050
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Men hit women more than women hit men. Men kill women more than women kill men. Men rape women more than women rape men.

Since time began.


Me BW, Him WH
DD #1, caught 4/12/13
DD #2, tells me the whole truth, 5/21/13
DD #3, TT until 8/9/13 then full disclosure w/timeline
DD #4, 8/26/13, OW texts me more info, he tells me the whole truth
DD # 5, 9/11/13, he tells me the whole truth??

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jul 2013
asurvivor
Member
Member # 32368
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Men hit women more than women hit men. Men kill women more than women kill men. Men rape women more than women rape men.
Since time began.

well let's assume that is true...what relevance does that have to this discussion.


I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know.



Posts: 505 | Registered: Jun 2011
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Here what I do not understand. Why is there a debate about if it's gender specific? You can see this playing out right now on this site. Big as life and twice as ugly. It's right in front of you. 

I'm not stating that I don't understand. I've posted here myself of how often I got into fights when I was younger...with boys and girls. Most of the time I was defending someone but I was clear that wasn't my sole motive. I did it because if felt good. Released huge amounts of rage on all sorts of proxy targets. It is not about moral superiority at all as I sure as shit don't possess that in any way. If "you" are ok with "your" response or have recognized it as something "you" never want to do again that's all that matters. Don't care. Your deal. 

This was to encourage people that are very under represented on here to not accept abuse from their spouse. Women from both sides of the alphabet get more than enough of that. Men don't. This thread is actually a perfect example of just that. Two of our members have posted of ongoing situations in their lives right now that, one quite terrifying. Maybe a few posters have posted support for them. Some others are far more concerned with how it's gender targeted and don't even acknowledge it at all. 

I am quite aware that women don't think at that moment, "I'm going to get away with it". They don't have to. It's innate in the culture, media, attitudes. Don't see men posting the, "what do you tell the woman with two black eyes" joke. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

What really bothers me about all this is the use in posts of..."there is no excuse for this" followed by a "however or a but, or a it's understandable"
that irks the fuck out of me too. Doesn't but negate everything said before the word "but"??? Isn't that what's touted on this site ALL THE TIME????? Jeezus.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

My WH has been physically violent with me one time and I have been 2 times since DDay. Both I consider domestic violence. Both are wrong. Neither of us in our 17 years together had ever done such a *violent* act towards the other. I am very ashamed to have lost that kind of self-control. I am in IC working on myself. I haven't raged or touched my WH since that day and neither has he. Have to stop the violence! It doesn't do anything but hurt both parties.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Thanks for this thread UO.

Growing up my older sister was bigger than me and used that to her advantage. Let''s just say I don''t have a fondness for long fingernails. My parents never stopped it, just sort of warned her I would soon be bigger than her. Except once I grew some more and was bigger I wasn''t allowed to "take advantage" of that.

I didn''t suffer any broken bones. I wasn''t put in the hospital or disabled. It wasn''t a daily or even weekly occurrence. Yet I remember it very clearly even though it happened 30 years ago. Being on the opposite end of that rage and feeling very helpless. Not simply helpless to stop it but helpless to stop it from happening again. It did have other, far-reaching effects on me, but I prefer not to get into that at the moment.

When I do talk about it, which is rare, I joke about it because in my experience there is little sympathy or understanding. No one questions why my parents didn''t really do anything to stop it. No one talks about how wrong she was to do that to her younger brother. I usually get comments about how I didn''t stand up for myself and how they would have handled it differently.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3662 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

I don't think people realize how easy it can be to permanently injure someone.

So so true. Several of the incidents I've read about here give me chills at how very bad it could have been had that object or hit been landed inches differently.

Oh, and kicking men in the balls is a very serious thing that can have long term consequences even after they recover, like testicular cancer. That's above the instant mind blowing pain. My ex nailed himself moving a stool. Vomited immediately and almost passed out. Couldn't move off the floor or form words for quite a while. Awful.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

I agree with you, Sadwife. I do think men physically abuse woman more than the reverse. Doesn't make it ok when the reverse happens though (not that you said that).

I hit my husband more than once. And one time was BEFORE D-Day. And the last time it happened, it went way beyond a slap. I should have been charged with assault. Period.

I'm feeling a lot of shame right now reading this post. I guess I can understand how a WS feels about that saying "once a cheater . . ." The fact that I exhibited this behavior in the past - am I always tainted by it now? I hope not, because that is NOT who I want to be.

I just want to throw this out there - the only circumstance (other than my IC) that anyone said WHAT YOU DID WAS WRONG (without a "but") attached was here on SI.

The replies I got IRL when I confessed what I'd done, to friends and family:

*snort* "Sorry, but that's kind of funny."

"Oh girl, I hit [boyfriend] when we were drinking and got in a fight. Don't you just feel so trashy afterward?" *giggle*

"I'm afraid he's going to hold this over your head forever when he's done so much worse."

"Yes, but what did he do first? He was trying to get you to leave the room? So he touched you FIRST, right?" (the answer was no)

"Well, you shouldn't have hit him, but you were pushed to it." (that was from his OWN SISTER)

"You should have done more than that." (a slap)

You'll get zero argument from me that female-on-male violence is perceived differently.


I'm really ashamed of what I did. I got to IC as soon as I could after the last incident (which was last August) because I knew I was completely out of control. It wasn't a little slap. it wasn't a light punch. I wanted to HURT him. I had allowed myself to become a monster. All of you who remember my posts from last year know that things were bad, but NONE of that justifies what I did. I'm so glad my IC didn't give me a pass or tell me that my behavior was justified.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6556 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

What really bothers me about all this is the use in posts of..."there is no excuse for this" followed by a "however or a but, or a it's understandable"

that irks the fuck out of me too. Doesn't but negate everything said before the word "but"??? Isn't that what's touted on this site ALL THE TIME?????

Bingo.

There is not a BUT acceptable enough for cheating.

There is not a BUT acceptable enough for substance abuse.

There is not a BUT acceptable enough to abuse women, children, and animals.

When a woman abuses a man? Buckets of BUTS come out.

"But he pissed me off."

"But he shouldn't have..."

"But he's twice my size."

"But he broke my heart."

"But, but, but."

Cannot stand seeing women fess up to violence and then give the disclaimer of, "Not proud of it, but it happened. Shouldn't have done it, but he made me so mad."

And then the "You go Girl" and fancy umbrella drinks get passed around.

Sad. So sad.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6058 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

When I do talk about it, which is rare, I joke about it because in my experience there is little sympathy or understanding

I'm so sorry, Brandon. Childhood doesn't just end with childhood. That's so sad.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Jana - I remember that and I am very proud of you for getting the help you need.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

(((jana))) That can't be easy to admit. Good for you that you are owning that shit. Yeah, last summer was bad, jana.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Men hit women more than women hit men. Men kill women more than women kill men. Men rape women more than women rape men.
Since time began.
Forgot to mention that men cheat more than women.

From http://www.domesticviolenceresearch.org/pages/12_page_findings.htm

Perpetration

Overall, 25.3% of individuals have perpetrated IPV
Rates of female-perpetrated violence higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%)
Wide range in perpetration rates: 1.0% to 61.6% for males; 2.4% to 68.9% for women,
Range of findings due to variety of samples and operational definitions of PV

Claims that it is different, because women are weaker sound a lot like minimization. Not much different from men saying "well I didn't really hit her that hard." Now how much force does it take to cause permanent damage? You can cripple a person with less than ten pounds, there are multiple ways to kill a person with less than 20. There are experts with the training to do this reliably. If an expert can be taught how to do it on purpose every time, then a moron can manage it by accident.

Violence exists in our personal toolbox for a reason, because it can be used to solve an immediate problem. If you are bigger and stronger, it is just a larger tool. Using that tool carries consequences, and most men are innately aware of those consequences, because we learn most of them during childhood. We don't need to be thinking about the consequences, because that knowledge is just part of who we are. That's a big part of why more people don't get punched in the throat. I believe that when men beat women, it is a choice they make because they believe they can get away with it. For women, I am not as sure, far more likely that they are just not as intimately familiar with the consequences. I got punched in the nose once while dating (buckled the cartilage, actually needed surgery to correct some issues that resulted), and the horrified reaction to the look on my eyes told me that she had never even considered the natural consequences of going there. By the way, the #1 consequence of resorting to violence is that you are now involved in a violent situation, and those are unpredictable, even if you win it is very likely going to hurt a lot.

Jana, don't feel shame over that. It is not productive, and that is not who you are now. You have examined your actions, adjusted your thinking, you have grown and are different. I say this the same way I would say that a FWS should not feel shame. Quite a different thing from remorse. Add me to the list of people that are proud of you for doing the work.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

The fact that I exhibited this behavior in the past - am I always tainted by it now?

Not at all, Jana. You didn't like it and you did something about it.

I wonder if some have difficulty with the fact those "reasons" sound oh so familiar and knowing how dismissed they are when used, rightfully so by the "waywards". It's not a comfortable thought that there is even the hint of sharing those thought processes with the monster that blew up your life.

It's not about tainting or labels. It's about recognizing, fixing, going forward. That's what surviving is. Not wasting time embroidering labels to confine something that no longer is that at all.

Butterflies don't crawl on the ground, right? They transformed for a reason.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

It's about recognizing, fixing, going forward.

Amen sister.

Thank you guys for picking me up just now.

I've said it before but I had so much wayward thinking running through me. I just didn't have an affair. My husband's infidelity made it wonderfully easy for me to justify reacting in unhealthy ways, and everyone around me (IRL) was more than willing to excuse my trainwreck behavior.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6556 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

I've said it before but I had so much wayward thinking running through me. I just didn't have an affair. My husband's infidelity made it wonderfully easy for me to justify reacting in unhealthy ways, and everyone around me (IRL) was more than willing to excuse my trainwreck behavior.
jana, the fact that you can even own this speaks volumes. Not many people have the courage to speak this truth.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

I've said it before but I had so much wayward thinking running through me. I just didn't have an affair. My husband's infidelity made it wonderfully easy for me to justify reacting in unhealthy ways, and everyone around me (IRL) was more than willing to excuse my trainwreck behavior.

Good stuff JanaGreen. We have similar thoughts.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2111 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

It is interesting, too, our responses to someone who has been physically violent but has addressed the issue (Jana). If a man came on here and said, "yea, I punched my wife. More than once. Pre-D-day even. But I got help." - would the community be as supportive of the transformation? I don't think so. A man who hits on more than one occasion is more likely to be labeled a monster. Someone not to be trusted. Someone who will likely repeat offend, abuse again. There would be a lot of fear for his wife. The responses to Jana (in my opinion, rightly so) have been supportive. I think that's because it is a woman who is reformed. I'm just not sure a man who beat his wife on multiple occasions would be compared to a butterfly who has transformed. Should he be? That's for everyone to decide for themselves, I guess.

I'm just agreeing with the original post - there is a double standard that extends even into recovery/reform from being a physical abuser.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
Stillstings
Member
Member # 36549
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

It is interesting, too, our responses to someone who has been physically violent but has addressed the issue (Jana). If a man came on here and said, "yea, I punched my wife. More than once. Pre-D-day even. But I got help." - would the community be as supportive of the transformation?

Depends. My dad started out with a physically abusive father who quit laying his hands on him at age 10. No reason. Just stopped. He loved his father till the day he died but always felt the tiniest hint of suspicion well into his 50's and never fully forgave him.

Things were quiet for a bit but the stepmother who came into his life was a monster who hit him until he left at age 18 to get out on his own. He never trusted her to be alone with his own children or wife. Even when she decided to quit hitting.

My dad never taught us to hit. Spanking if you tried to run into a busy street was one thing. Slapping, pushing, punching any part of the body because you were just having a hissy fit was unacceptable. Our mom enforced this too. If you feel you're unable to control yourself WALK AWAY. Rage is to be expected but physical violence is degrading for all parties involved.


Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 347 | Registered: Aug 2012
ccw82
Member
Member # 40133
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

OMG, you guys. I just read through all of these posts and felt like a ton of bricks fell on my chest.

Right after DDay, I hit my WH. His cheating brought out a lot of past traumas from my childhood (I was sexually abused from age 6 - 14), and literally took it all out on him that night.

A couple of weeks later, we got into another physical confrontation, and I hit him again.

About 2 weeks ago, I slapped him, and when I did I accidentally scratched his face with my nail. Oh dear god, I felt horrible about it! I still do!!!!

Since then, I've realized that I never want to hit him again, no matter how mad I get! If I get overwhelmed with anger or grief, I go take a shower or a walk. Jesus, you guys, I said this to WH, but I need to say it again: I AM SO SORRY. I thought he deserved it because of the devastating pain he's put me in, and thought it was more acceptable because I am a woman, but I realize now how very wrong it is and that it's no road I want to go down ever again. There is NO excuse for physical violence in any form from ANY party.

Thank you all for helping me realize how wrong I was!


Me: 31
WH (1DumbHusband): 35
Married 5 years, together 7 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
TTs that came out as late as January 2014

"One is not tempted by that he does not want."


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Dallas, TX
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Just came by to bump this because...

ccw82, You are to be commended for the personal realization, especially when so many are incapable of it. It shows true character to be able to make changes like this.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Topic Posts: 71