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User Topic: Vajajay question? Tmi.....
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

I have heard people say vaginal births ruin your vagina...

Mow had more kids then me and had a child more recently than me. Wh said she felt different but not better or worse.

I had my last baby 15 yrs ago.
I have only been with wh...he has been with other women before me and now...while with me.

Do men really think a woman feels that much different if shes had a vaginal birth? Wh says he doesnt remember what i felt like before we had babies. He says everything is "good"

Wh took my "virginity" at 17...well sort of...i had been raped at 6 but only remember bits and pieces.

Anyhow...just wondering if someday i divorce..if another man will have a problem with my having delivered vaginally.

I had easy deliveries.


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
heathenchristian
Member
Member # 40060
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

My husband has said to me that after the birth of our child 4yrs ago, I do feel different.
Not in bad way he said.
I've heard of women getting a vajajay rejeuvanation opertaion. Making it tighter and not so stretched out.


If you don't want me at my worst, maybe I won't need you at my best.
DDAY 1 - not sure but it was July, Aug or Sept 2010 (supposed bj from hooker)
DDAY 2 - 7-22-2013 she was the made up hooker

Posts: 99 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: IL
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Curious to know the answer too. Before I gave birth, H tried to convince me to do C-section because he didn't want me to "ruin" myself down there... One of his exes had a C-section before he met her and he marveled over her tightness. Always worry he's comparing me to her. I have no regrets about the delivery.

Anyway... Would love to know if there's a noticeable difference for guys.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 11:19 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

Just curious...
I wasn't "damaged" in my opinion lol

But I have heard some men think as such.

I wouldn't have it uh lol tightened though. My grandmother had 9 kids.

I know mow had kids too...

Just feels like one more strike against me as a woman.


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, August 23rd (Friday)

What plays over and over in my head tonight is wh saying mow just felt
"Different"

Uh ok....im not a man. I have no idea what a womans vagina feels like or how "different" they are. I dont know anything about penis's.lol.... I have only been with wh.

I just feel crappy..mow is older had more kids had a baby more recently than me has had several sexual partners.

I doubt wh cared about any of that.

I feel sick


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
MissMouseMo
Member
Member # 38562
Default  Posted: 12:29 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I don't have any answers to soothe an aching heart, but I did read about this last week in PT and it's got some scientific relevance:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201109/the-rare-truth-about-tight-and-loose-women

P.S. Some women (ahem) have aching hearts because of the opposite problem and they get tighter / *too* tight (with pain) as the age because of atrophy. We have to be loved for all of who we are - not because every one of our particulars stands up to the scrutiny of a magnifying glass!


It is the gut-wrenching, down-to-your-soul honesty that helps so much. ~paraphrased from CancunCrushed
"I edit, therefore I am." -BionicGal

Posts: 253 | Registered: Feb 2013
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 12:30 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

Here's the deal. Every vajajay is different, just as your eyes, nose and lips are different. Yes there can be some major injuries to you during birth, but that is not the norm. Any major issues would have been addressed right after birth by your doctor.

Every vagina and surrounding area is a space that reacts to stimuli, either physical or mental. Unstimulated the vagina is rather roundish like an apple. When aroused and during intense foreplay it lengthens and becomes more narrow, like a banana. Trust me, it is all in the foreplay. If your man wants you to tighten up he better be willing to do the work it may take. You can do pelvic exercises, but generally you can still get there after vaginal birth with the right stimulation during sex.

I also had to ask what Hag was like between the legs. I am over 50 and had one c-section and one vaginal birth with stitches after a 9+ pound baby. Yes, he says the 35 year old OW (no births) was different, but she never could "grab on" like I do. Why? He did not take the time to do the proper foreplay. It was get it done just for him. She pretended to O, but he said he could tell she did not because he has felt my O's and it just was not there.

Also, a factor in all of this is the fantasy, stimulation, and titillation your WS and the AP were experiencing. Maybe just the illicit nature of having sex within an A made both of them react physically more intense than settled marital sex does. And of course, if your WS needs a red hot mess of a sexual partner, how the hell did he expect the A would affect that for the two of you?

Relax, read up on sexual health, and love your parts. Contract those muscles while driving, washing the dishes, watching TV, etc. Just watch the eyebrows. We tend to raise them up and down with each contraction. They are a dead give away.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1397 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, y'all.
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 12:43 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

Lol, thanks ((lovedyoumore))

Not really having sex with wh anyhow. Just feeling down.

Good info


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

Was hoping to hear mens perspective..

I know that might be uncomfortable for some guys...plus they probably dont want to say the wrong thing.

Im pretty sure im ok down in my lady parts lol just feeling insecure tonight.


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:14 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

http://jezebel.com/a-primer-on-what-sex-does-and-doesnt-do-to-your-vagi-500204347


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9301 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
keptmyword
Member
Member # 35526
Default  Posted: 1:14 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I don't believe there is really any significant difference that a man can feel after a woman has delivered a baby. I believe the difference, if any, is really felt more by the woman instead of the man - possibly due to nerve damage in the area from the birth. (Got an old friend who is an OB/GYN)

From what I know and what my married male friends have said after their wives have delivered is that "things" rebound after some time.

I'd bet that what your wayward husband is saying about you is just part of the excuse-making that waywards use to give any justification for what they have done. Honestly, you should not give it any further thought.


I Divorced Her.

Posts: 355 | Registered: May 2012
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 1:22 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

my wife has had 3 vaginal births. I don't notice any difference. It's all good!


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5624 | Registered: Aug 2007
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 1:32 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I would think a woman would be able to feel a difference if it were "stretched out" I had both types of deliveries and intercourse didn't feel any different..geez why can't society say a man's penis shrinks with childbirth rather than women get looser. I don't believe that. Just another reason to make mothers feel inadequate sexually. I read its a muscle and yes if you don't kiegel, the pelvic floor doesn't hold everything up properly, but loosened by childbirth? I just don't believe that.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 4729 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:59 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

The fact that a vaginal birth 'ruins' a vagina seems just crazy to me. Yea, the baby passes through and stretches shit out for a bit (but it goes back). It's a muscle or cartilage or something.......I suppose that I'm no help. I had c-sections for all of my kids.

Where is PurpleJacket?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7705 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 2:55 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I don't notice a difference and wh never complained. I guess its just something I asked. As if mow had a magical vagina or something. truth is she had a vagina and thats all that mattered.

I just feel insecure about myself and my body. From the top of my head to the tips of my toes.

My vagina doesnt escape the insecurities.

Mow waxed her lady parts. I shave mine. The last year I havent and wh made a comment about my forest when I was getting out of the shower!

Its not wild! Its neat and trimmed! Wtf! I wanted to say to him if he wants a hairless pussy to go find his old whore...ass.



Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 2:57 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I know exactly why he liked her shaved...because he was going down on her. I dont care if he never does that to me ever again. I dont want his mouth on any of my lips :(

Pun intended


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
stillstruggle
New Member
Member # 40406
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

This is one of the reasons I'm afraid to have children (among others, ie. OEA & crazy in-laws). I also don't want to gain too much weight and get flabby. My brothers would insult my mom for being "fat" (she had 3 kids, incl me) & it makes me conscious, plus my H watches a lot of dirty videos & I feel like I need to keep a "porn star body" to keep his attention. It's a lot of pressure, esp since ppl practically harass me about how I need to have kids right away (esp his mom, whom I have a strained relationship w/) & ppl stop talking to me after they ask me if I have any kids and I say "no". I feel societally unaccepted w/out them, and with the OEA, why would I want any right now? I'd be nuts to, they don't deserve inheriting my problems. So I guess be judged and shunned like in the Scarlet Letter instead.

Posts: 4 | Registered: Aug 2013
bigskyblues
Member
Member # 36759
Default  Posted: 5:28 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

My ex had four kids and there was nothing different or "worse" about it. I suspect a vaj from "unicorn" land just seems to feel different!


BH 50s
xWW 50s

Dday1 7-2012
Dday2 8-2012
Divorce 9-2012

4 kids all adults.

Married 22+ years.

I have moved on and life is good!


Posts: 151 | Registered: Sep 2012
AppleBlossom
Member
Member # 38541
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I had three vaginal births, two with episiotomies. My vagina is just as good - if not better - than it was before. The walls of a vagina are muscle, and stretch to allow the baby out. After a few short weeks, they are back to "normal".

Now for the good news - after I had babies, sex was better. Dont know what happened, whether the G sport moved, or I became more sensitive, but orgasms are more intense, and I "feel" everything more than before.

Dont let anyone give you any crap about women who have had babies compared to those that havent.

I am 47, have had three kids, gained and lost weight, lived a bit, had a fair bit of sex (good and bad) and now I am with a loving partner and I have a sense of security about myself - sex is better than ever. And my fiance would say the same/


Posts: 154 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Australia
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

You know...

sometimes being a woman is just shitty. And this thread is another example.

For goodness sake, we deliver these men's babies, and this is the thanks we get.

I just had this conversation with my WH. I was saying that it really does suck to be a woman. I was saying this in reference to an older couple, probably in their 70's, that walked by us at a restaurant. Time had taken its toll on both of them, but they were still holding hands.

I said to him that I just didn't think I could grow old with him. I didn't think he would be around for the long haul or when I got sick, etc.. He of course denied that to be the case. But you know what, I delivered his babies, breast fed them and have the battle scars to show. He has three kids and nothing on him changed except normal aging.

As women, we constantly compare ourselves. There will always be someone younger, tighter, skinnier, smoother, ....

From where I sit, it really is a man's world.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1415 | Registered: Jun 2012
curiouswiz
Member
Member # 34405
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I've had two c-sections and I do the Kiegle (sp?) I'll have to watch out for my eyebrows!!! I do it whenever I think of it. Whether it's 30 times a day or once a month. It's a healthy thing for you to do for a number of reasons. It can be fun too....

Ok..I've heard this said. I don't know the answer but I suspect it's bullshit. We need more guys to step up and own this and thanks to the ones that have already. I think it's more myth in WS handbook.

I think it's brave of you to ask and put this out there for us. I find it interesting and wonder if any of it is true. I seriously doubt it though.

I'm going to go now, my eyebrows are bouncing around....


God bless us, everyone.

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Boston
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

sunflowergirl, I got the same from FWH. OW was "different". Not better, just "different". OW was in its 40's and has never had children. Yeah, I was fucking insecure as hell about that.

Now, I don't care. Fuck him and its childless va jay jay. OW thought it had the golden va jay jay and could lure any man away with it. Yeah, for a time it did. OW didn't know it was competing against my platinum va jay jay, though. Mine is the best! (Except for every other BW here, we all have platinum va jay jay's) I really believe that.

Mine is true blue and his, all his, and only his. That makes it the most precious va jay jay in the world.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Pass
Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

I never noticed any difference in The Princess after our kids were born. I recently had sex with someone who has had no children.

My fingers noticed a definite difference in tightness on the inside, but not on the opening. My penis didn't notice or care about either. It was happy with both women.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after married 17 years, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1694 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
myperfectlife
Member
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

Oh the fascinating conversations that affairs bring up. My WS said the same thing about it being "different".
When I asked if she O'd he said "I don't know, I assume so but she's not like you."
Whatever.
Anyway-my main reason for posting this is that I did experience some nerve damage with my youngest son's vaginal birth and had some little issues with incontinence.
I purchased a Keigel Master which is a resistance exerciser for your keigel muscles. Regular keigel exercises don't fully engage all the muscles. This thing does. Within a week my incontinence (leak when sneezing) was gone and I could "grip" in an amazing way I had never been able to before.
Also, the resistance exercises help with blood flow and increase sensitivity-which was an issue for me. My WS noticed a difference as well...not that it kept him from cheating-this was before he cheated.
So really, 2 things:
Being tight or loose, having lots of sex (me) or none, being willing to do anything and everything (me) or nothing (AP) does not keep your mate from cheating.
If you're really insecure or want to feel like you're truly doing something FOR YOU then get the keigel master. It's the best 100$ I ever spent. Whether I stay married or move on, I will have confidence that my lady parts are the best they can be.


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
pjkmkjm23
Member
Member # 35778
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

My ex had 4 vaginal births and I honestly never noticed any difference.

TMI warning: one thing I miss about my ex is she was always great when it came to sex...I could have it whenever I wanted pretty much. So we had two types....1) where we def pleased each other 2) what I called my "selfish sex" or quickies lol. Although I liked #2 sometimes....I always had to work at it to get it "in", it was always def work and I used to think wtf...after 4 natural child births shouldn't this be very easy? #1 I could just about 'fall-in' sometimes! I PREFERRED #1. So everything I'm writing here seems to go against these claims of natural child births ruining women.

Disclaimer: all those natural child births did ruin something for the ex tho (although I never noticed it)...she can no longer cough or laugh without peeing herself....every time! The evil side of me hopes her POSOM is a fucking comedian ;-)


Posts: 297 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Canada
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

Reading over all this...thinking about how I feel.

Realizing my lady parts are just that...
MY LADY PARTS!

Nothing about me then or now mattered.

Wh was all about wh...

I still hate feeling so sad inside. In my head and in my heart. It is what it is.

Different...

I really hate that.

Our life, our marriage, everything. Just different all over him wanting some " different"...

I hate that word :(

Im all cried out. I cant shed one tear. Maybe thats good. Laying here listening to wh shower. Feeling dread. Im that woman, the one who is just sad all the time. I smile but my kids can tell. They constantly ask are you ok? Whats wrong? I say nothing is wrong. That I am fine.

What a big lie


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

It's funny, I had 3 vaginal births, and my H tells me I'm tighter now than I ever have been. In fact, I can feel it as well as he feels quite large compared to years past... and I KNOW his business hasn't gotten any bigger.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Remone
New Member
Member # 40260
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, August 24th (Saturday)

My beautiful wife has given birth to four very large baby girls and I certainly don't notice a difference. Feels great and looks beautiful. I love it.

Posts: 31 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

Thank you to all the guys who answered. What you wrote is very reassuring, especially this:

I'd bet that what your wayward husband is saying about you is just part of the excuse-making that waywards use to give any justification for what they have done. Honestly, you should not give it any further thought.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
ImNellNow
Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

1. From XWH during false R: I was not tight enough (two natural births), also boring and didn't initiate enough

2. From XWH after DDay#2: I'm tight, amazing, exciting, etc.

3. From the handful of men post D: I'm so tight, can't believe I've ever given birth

4. From fiancé: I love you and that's why making love to you is so amazing

I think #1 was gross rewriting, #2 was rewriting in exactly the opposite way, #3 was true but highly shined up, and #4 is not only true but also self-aware. It's not the physical dimensions of the jiggly parts, it's the value of the connection with the other person that is going to drive pleasure. That Dr. Ruth was right on the money!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

For goodness sake, we deliver these men's babies, and this is the thanks we get.

The ones complaining about this sort of thing can't be classified as men. Assholes yes, but not men.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36481 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Bloomsday
Member
Member # 40275
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

I have had sex with several women in each category - - virgins; sex but no kids; one kid; several kids; recent kids and not-so-recent kids. Over all, none of that makes a difference to how they feel or whether they were good lays. IMO, the child-bearing difference is non-existent compared to more important things such as attitude, enthusiasm, hip bucking, clenching, creativity, level of comfort, sexual compatibility, willingness to experiment, honesty, etc.

The only thing that I can think of that "ruined" an otherwise excellent vagina for me (unfortunately) was a woman who used a diaphragm and spermicide for contraception. First, there was the break in action while she inserted the diaphragm. Then, the spermicide was so greasy that I felt nothing when I was inside her. There was no friction at all. I could hardly climax and she could not have been feeling much either. Plus, I was turned off for going down on her for a second round. I preferred to use a condom, but she wanted to "feel" me in her.

Anyway, consider that women can be fisted and still regain fine vaginal form pretty quickly.

While we are on the topic... ass is not the new vagina and never will be. I have nothing against anal sex, but it does not hold a candle to vagina as far as tightness and feeling.

And finally, the shaving fad has "jumped the shark". Real men like a little bush. Trimmed is good. It doesn't have to be animal topiary or anything elaborate. Based on a relatively small sample size so far, women seem to appreciate a guy who will occasionally trim them. More women should ask. He might even find your clitoris while he's putzing around down there.


Posts: 55 | Registered: Aug 2013
million pieces
Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

I have had sex with several women in each category - - virgins; sex but no kids; one kid; several kids; recent kids and not-so-recent kids. Over all, none of that makes a difference to how they feel or whether they were good lays. IMO, the child-bearing difference is non-existent compared to more important things such as attitude, enthusiasm, hip bucking, clenching, creativity, level of comfort, sexual compatibility, willingness to experiment, honesty, etc.

I've asked my SO before and this was his response almost exactly.

And let me just say, the second a man doesn't appreciate my body, we are done. My body is amazing, it grew two babies, pushed them out, and then provided milk for them for almost 2 yrs afterwards each. I really want to punch each of those guys who said those things to you (pl). FTGs!!!!


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1231 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

The ones complaining about this sort of thing can't be classified as men. Assholes yes, but not men.

I completely agree.

Crazz was kind and optimistic during my pregnancy. I would worry about stretching, and he would insist that it didn't matter. He told me I was beautiful when I was pregnant, and he always respected that my body was carrying his child. When the stretch marks started to show on my tummy he would kiss them and say they were sexy battle wounds for growing a human. Yes, he cheated later, but this is separate from that in my mind and heart. He has never ever made me feel badly about my body.

THAT is a man, and I'm lucky to know so many more like him.


(Doesn't hurt that I snapped back like a damn rubber band, though. I think that's more common than we worry about.
)


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16423 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

This is a ridiculous concern. This is an organ designed to allow another human being to be created from cells. It is Absolutely amazing. Anyone who says its loose from having kids is fos. It is a muscle and if not used will loose its tone. So if some pencil dick can feel it then I suggest he help exercise it.

This is the most pliable tissue I the human body and if managed right will not tear at delivery This is a little known fact but that tissue if massaged while in labor will stretch out to as thin as it needs to be. No episiotomy no tearing.

So for those that are concerned about being tight enough. Exercise it. Use it often with and without your partner.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7802 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
bufffalo
Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

This is a ridiculous concern. This is an organ designed to allow another human being to be created from cells. It is Absolutely amazing. Anyone who says its loose from having kids is fos. It is a muscle and if not used will loose its tone. So if some pencil dick can feel it then I suggest he help exercise it.

I SO agree....not trying to toot my horn...I have NEVER been able to determine if a woman has had kids (or how many) by having sex with them.....GOOD GRIEF....and that dude cant either...

I think he's humping his wifes leg....

JMO

Bufffalo


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5810 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
StepAside
Member
Member # 29826
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, August 24th (Saturday)

Something I've learned here in the hallowed halls of SI:

Pussy Has No Face

tight/loose/shaved/unshaved there is no majik, it was simply readily served up by a f*cked up slunt to an equally f*cked up man-whore.

Having said that, fWH had atleast the grace to tell me that they weren't better, or discernabley different, they were available. (see above)

(edit for typo)

[This message edited by StepAside at 9:14 PM, August 24th (Saturday)]


Me 48yrs, douche midlife crisis poster boy- 50yrs
too many A's to bother to count, he is a predator that targets loosers like himself
Last Dday April 12/10-Divorcing
We live in a world where the fear of illusion is real

Posts: 1510 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: The Cheese Stands Alone
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 4:32 AM, August 25th (Sunday)

I've had sex with several guys who were shocked when it came up afterwards that I have had two kids and breastfed both for 18m+. No stretch marks, my boobs are lovely - not quite as lovely as they were in my 20s but that is age and weight loss/gain related, not breastfeeding related.

I've been asked where my cesarian scar is several times. Um, they do come out of vaginas too, y'know.

I don't know what they expected a vagina that had done one of its intended jobs to feel like but they were certainly surprised.

I had an episiotomy with my first and tore with my second. I felt different/tender/weird only externally for somewhere between a year and 18m. Most of it was psychological and the fact that I was married to a sexually selfish cold fish arsehole.

My G-spot moved around too but otherwise I feel back to normal now 3 years after my last child. Actually it feels better than ever because I do a lot of pelvic floor exercises since having the girls whereas I never really thought about it before.

I have a large network of mum-friends both IRL and online (circa 100 women all up) and we discuss this quite a bit as it is a common concern. Only one of them has real issues and they are nerve-damage related, not 'tightness' related. The rest seem more concerned about it despite their partners insisting they feel the same/better.

I'm with the poster who talked about apple and banana shapes.

If you're turned on by yourself and by your partner your vagina can give you both some fantastic gifts. If not then its pretty much like a visit to the gyno - all poking and prodding with little to no sensation.

Don't let this load of bullshit mess with your head. Penis' aren't bloody fingertips - a woman's arousal and different positions can all change the 'tight' factor, pre or post kids.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5435 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
WhatsRight
Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, August 25th (Sunday)

Speaking of the gynocologist, (WARNING!!! t.m.i!!) I have just the opposite problem.

Since my wh and I do not have sex, AND because of post menopausal dryness - that was never a problem before - I am TOO tight!

When I go to the gyn, it hurts me so badly, I am in pain for days. I have considered getting a 'device' just to stretch me out a few weeks prior to my next visit. (It's also embarrassing - I'm sure the doctor knows that if I am so tight and it hurts so badly - there is no way anything is ever in there!)

I just didn't think I would be through with my whoha at 60!

So sorry for the TMI and t/j.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1850 | Registered: Apr 2012
PrincessPeach06
Member
Member # 39588
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, August 25th (Sunday)

Well I have 6 and have never thought about it once!!!!

My OB did say after I had #5 that he was shocked I could still use regular tampons. I guess that's a good thing!?!?


Me (BS): 35
Him (fWS): 36
Married 16 years 6 kids ages 15-6
DDay #1 (EA) July '08
DDay #2 (EA/ONS- different OW) May 15, 2013

Finally this is R 8/14/13

"Forgiving is a journey; the deeper the wound, the longer the journey".


Posts: 299 | Registered: Jun 2013
LimboStill
Member
Member # 36564
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

sunflowergirl, I had a bad day a couple of months ago and had the same worry. It's scary to contemplate how my healthy, but 43-year-old mommy of 2 body will be perceived after not having a new partner since I was 25 and hot! I know Kegels are good for continence as we age anyway, so I ordered Lelo Luna beads on Amazon. They are supposed to help strengthen those muscles. I've only used them a few times, but you do have to "flex" a bit at times to keep them in place. I was mostly just relieved that I could do it and they weren't constantly dropping out!
Anyway, on many better days since then, I've realized any man worth me (or any woman) will value me for qualities that are not altered by childbirth, aging, whatever. Let's hold out for those guys. I think we're just feeling so vulnerable and self-esteem has certainly taken a hit.

[This message edited by LimboStill at 1:37 PM, August 25th (Sunday)]


No longer in limbo.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2012
sullymeishadomi
Member
Member # 16305
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

I cant read this whole thread bc it makes steam come out of my ears.

I am soooo effing sick and tired of some asshole trying to say your boobs, ass, tetas, legs, hair, vajayjay needs to look or feel xyz...
We are individuals. To judge ourselves or allow ourselves to be judged on superficial is just bullshit!

If someone wants to tighten things up, then it should be for their personal pleasure not because a woman wants to impress or satisfy some fool.

Im going to calm down and address the situation directly: of course she feels different. She is not you. Each kiss is different. Each persons touch is different. It can be similar, but not the same

Please dont compare yourself to some lowly ho who has no respect for herself or anyone around her. If any male wants someone like her then it speaks little of him, doesnt it.


People tell you exactly who they are...why expect them to be what they are not

Posts: 8210 | Registered: Sep 2007
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

I am soooo effing sick and tired of some asshole trying to say your boobs, ass, tetas, legs, hair, vajayjay needs to look or feel xyz...
We are individuals. To judge ourselves or allow ourselves to be judged on superficial is just bullshit!

God, that is so true, Sully! It reduces us. It poisons us inside, makes us sick, that we can't even be comfortable in our own skins.

For those of us who gave birth, either vaginally or with a c-section: forget for a second what anyone else says. How did YOU feel about giving birth? Was there a deep sense of pride in what you did? And the recovery afterward, your strength, the way it felt to get on your feet, to heal? Did you feel it down through your muscles and bones how unbelievable strong you were? Focus on that. Tap that. Don't be afraid of your strength.

It is so sad that so many of us had people who were supposed to have our backs diminish us instead. They failed to acknowledge our strengths and instead tore us down with their shallowness. Take heed from the many people here who know and have acknowledged what real strength is.

(((((((((hugs)))))))))


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
BeautifulEmpty
Member
Member # 38763
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

Warning:
I'm about to go on a positivity rant:) I couldn't stop the flow of words so imagine confetti being thrown and know I attempted to have everything make sense and be relevant. I possibly didn't make this goal:)

I've pondered this stuff at length. I've had 4 vaginal deliveries. My first was 9lb 12oz and a massive episiotomy.
I have always loved the shear power of giving birth. I was a complete wreck during my last pregnancy but I still managed a home birth and was able to be fierce and summon up energy from some primal place within myself. I love that. It gives me perspective I'd be lacking without.
Still, I wonder...but ultimately, I wouldn't trade my experiences for a supposedly tighter vajayjay. Admittedly, I'm all about being an earth mother so I wouldn't consider an elective c section even on a bad day but I can understand why, in this world and with our crappy, undermining experiences, a woman would consider it.
I've seen a meme going around that I love. It's not addressing an altered vag but the idea can be applied much the same: you haven't ruined your body (with stretch marks), you're a goddamned tiger who's earned your stripes!
Men have long had issues with their penises...girth, length..whatever. They often seem to obsess over it.
I see this focus on our kitties just another way men try to spread their insecurities to us.
There is nothing, NOTHING wrong with our vaginas! There is NOTHING wrong with our fur...puss, armpits, legs, even face! Yeah, you heard me right...many sisters of all races suffer with shame over facial hair and I say fuck it. We are beautiful any way.
There is NOTHING wrong with our stretch marks! NOTHING! There is NOTHING wrong with some luscious flab, less perky boobs...none of it.
Now, let me scream this one out:
WE DESERVE TO BE WITH MEN WHO *HONOR* US, OUR EXPERIENCES AND OUR WISDOM AS WE AGE! We should be SAFE to age and change naturally with someone we love. SAFETY.
I'm not saying not to shave or use makeup or wax that mustache if it pleases you o do so. I'm a freaking esthetician. I'm all about makeup and well...esthetics...but do it for you and let him keep up with your radiance...for who YOU are. Not for who he wants you to be or look like. Not so that he can conform me to a porn star ideal...which is bizarre considering all the fake body parts represented there. Those porn stars age. I was the icon model for an amateur porn network. I apologize to the ladies who's men have struggled with that kid of thing...I'm not condoning it. I'm trying to say, we age. We get fat or we lose our soft curves. Our boobs expand, sag and deflate.
Whatever happens, we must require safety to age with the mate of our choosing. We must be free to safely have children without some expectation from our men we discover we can't keep up with. It's called honoring ourselves and each other as amazing women. Not little girls. WOMEN. Our mates need to love us...not just our body...or just our youthful body or child free body. The whole damned glorious package.
I've met countless repulsive ugly 'hot' people. I've met the most sexy and stunning fat or older people. I loved a confident fat man with so much passion and I've never met a thin, muscled man who was his equal. I've had the privilege of spending time with gorgeous, confident big women who outshone the entire room of 'hotties'. I've met so many different types of beautiful people but their beauty had nothing to do with their looks although many had plenty of physical beauty.
Like everything else, we can only manage ourselves. If the other person doesn't like it, he's free to move on. If he wants to make comparisons this is a clue that he will always be making comparisons. Eventually, you won't be able to compete or keep up. Ask any older SIer who's husband cheated with a much younger girl. She is far more glorious but doesn't know it because she cannot compete with the youth of the AP. truth is, she never should have had to even think about that. Just do what makes you happy but make sure it's for YOU.


Me: 42 BS
Him: 38 ws
Ow: 44 head case, no obs
5 DD's: 21, 18, 17, 15, 10
Last D-day: August 2012 with lots of very blurry lines.

Posts: 241 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Washington State
NotDefeatedYet
Member
Member # 33642
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

Who are these superficial turds you people are running into? Wow. Just, wow.


"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

Posts: 767 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Texas
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

Who are these superficial turds you people are running into? Wow. Just, wow.

Unfortunately, some of us are either related to them or married to them. Or both.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
MrsDoubtfire
Member
Member # 24786
Default  Posted: 3:21 AM, August 26th (Monday)

Vag birth. One child.

I can't use super sized tampons ( too big) and use regular or mini ones!

Guess I'm tight.

Different? We are all individuals so I don't care if ow was tight or loose as his A was his issue. She was just available (saggy or tight).

Don't compare your vajayjay with ow. Just look at the brokenness inside your ws as that is why they cheat.

[This message edited by MrsDoubtfire at 3:21 AM, August 26th (Monday)]


BS(Me) FWH(Him) DDay 05.09
A went underground. True R 02.10
I won't let another woman reap the benefit of enjoying the man my H has now become†

Posts: 1563 | Registered: Jul 2009
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, August 26th (Monday)

I have realized and knew wh infidelity stems from his own feelings of not being good enough.

His feelings of inferiority and feeling im better than him.

Its not easy separating that from my insecurities. He doesnt value you me truly because he doesnt value himself .

Im tired, im lonely...im sick of this shitty ride. I want off.


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1049 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
TrustGone
Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, August 26th (Monday)

My WH#2 knew what my body looked like when he married me, so I will never let him try and tear me down now for my small boobs, stretch marks, or any other thing he may think is wrong with me. He knew what he was getting when he got it. He has often said he would pay for a boob job if I wanted it. I looked at him and said well I will pay for a penis enlargement if you want it. That usually shuts him up. If he wanted a woman with huge boobs he should have married one. I will never let someone tell me they don't like me because of my body. That is their problem, not mine.

You need to quit worrying about what he thinks of you and start worrying about what you think of yourself. Work on your own self-esteem and get to a place you are happy with yourself. He had low self-esteem and was selfish enough that he used another to make himself feel better and that has nothing to do with you or the way you look. (((HUGS)))


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, August 26th (Monday)

I am so glad that you posted this. I started crying while reading it. I have wanted to ask WS how she felt, and just haven't been able to. Every time I start to think about it, I feel so disgusted. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks these things.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1034 | Registered: Jul 2013
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, August 26th (Monday)

I always thought the enjoyment came from the act itself. Seems to me that the focus on the minor issues just say something about the selfishness of the person complaining.

There is so much more to a relationship than this. We all age and our bodies change over time. Some things sag, some shrink, other things wrinkle, and some things get softer. It's life and nature stops for no one.

There is nothing wrong or unsatisfying about you sexually. Your WS has lost focus on the more important aspects of your relationship. I hope he can come to the realization that sexual satisfaction is a lot larger bundle of things than how tight or loose something is.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1020 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
ShockedErica11
Member
Member # 37550
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, August 26th (Monday)

I am so glad that you posted this. I started crying while reading it. I have wanted to ask WS how she felt, and just haven't been able to. Every time I start to think about it, I feel so disgusted. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks these things.

You are definitely not the only one. I recently asked him about this, and I think it just stems from my insecurities. I mean, I am told by him that I am the best he’s had in all his sexual history () but that he had sex with her because he was used to it. It was something he was comfortable with. I just don’t get that. I’m no virgin, don’t get me wrong, but I can articulate that he’s good at what he does, it satisfies me because it’s with the person I care about which heightens the experience, but my first sexual experience was with someone who enjoyed every aspect of sex and imparted that love of sex, foreplay, intimacy, sensuality and fun into my sex life so that when I have sex with anyone (I’ve only had four partners, including my WH), I infuse that into sex. I’ve been told by my partners in the past that I’m really damn good at what I do, but here is the OW that held my WH’s attention for two years (sex six times and, of course, the EA) so I’m heavily confused, incredibly hurt and I just don’t understand.

It hurts that he describes her as “different”, “loose” and “easy” because that’s what “tight” and “amazing” got traded up for. She excited him because it was “new” and “different” so what does that say about mine?

Logically, I get it. Trying to catch my emotions up to the fact that no matter how good you are, someone will trade you up for worse really does a number on your self-esteem. It doesn’t matter to me what other sexual partners have said about me sexually; I could give a flying flip. It mattered to me about the person I was screwing; only his opinion counted, and if he could easily trade me up, what good am I really?


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
shatteredheart7
Member
Member # 39734
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, August 26th (Monday)

At first I worried about this, However, he quickly told me different. He said she was cold, like fucking a blow up doll, that she always just laid there. She wasn't capable of an O, no matter what he did. So my question to him was, then why? Why did you continue to fuck her 1-2 times a month for over 2 yrs. His answer, and yeah at first I didn't believe the first part and the second part I honestly admit still hurts to this day, He said that we had been having so much trouble with sex (I had actually told him that I wasn't getting anything out of it so why should I bother, he got the pleasure and I got the clean up) so he felt that since he gave me bad sex that she being a bad fuck was what he deserved for being a selfish ass. Not sure if I explain that right, but hopefully you get what I mean.

His second reason, the thing that she actually told him that got his pants down is the one that is hardest for me. I have always loved oral. The only problem is I have a horrible gag reflex problem. I can not let him finish in my mouth without puking, even the thought of swallowing has made me throw up. Hell, I have thrown up before from brushing my teeth if I get the toothbrush to far back. She told him she loves to swallow and then proved it to him, repeatedly.

I did ask about difference in tightness because she has had 4 kids, I have had 3. My youngest is almost 15 hers is 11 or 12. He says that sex with me is the best ever. He said that she doesn't compare to me at all. He was honest and said that she was always dry which made it more difficult, added to the fact that he was never completely hard (other than when she gave him a BJ and even then he says I make him harder) I can't imagine that it was very enjoyable for him.
According to him, he was there for the BJ, and he just felt obligated to have sex with her. He says that she wasn't even that good at it, but knowing that she would swallow was the turn on for him.

Now fast forward to us. When he first told me this I was devastated. I googled like crazy trying to find some way to get over my gag reflex. I went to the adult store and bought throat numbing sprays, nothing helped. I would sit and cry every time I tired and failed. He would wrap me in his arms and cry with me, telling me how sorry he was for hurting me. He has since told me that he loves me, he loves the way I love what I am doing and that just knowing that I want to but physically can't is a bigger turn on to him than if I did it all the time and thought nothing of it.

He has also finally understood that sex is an act that anyone /any animal can do. But the emotional connection between two people is what makes it special and wonderfully amazing.

On a side note, HE worries that one day HE won't be able to satisfy ME. In HS I dated a guy that was porn star huge, my DH has told me lately that he always felt that I was comparing him to that guy and he wasn't "measuring up" I think that men that have to downgrade our wonderful tiger bodies have issues about their own bodies more than an issue with our bodies.

Sorry, I got a little off track...


Me~40
FWH~46
Married 8yrs
Together 11 1/2
Me~ 3 kids, 21,17,14
Him~no kids
A with a mutual "friend" for 2+yrs
He confessed 9/9/12
A was over 2/12
7/13~ Happier than we have been in yrs!

Posts: 240 | Registered: Jul 2013
TrulySad
Member
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, August 26th (Monday)

I've given birth five times, all vaginally. I'm 46 years old, and with a much younger man. The topic of how "tight" I am has been discussed. I'm no idiot. Chances are women who haven't given birth, will be tighter. Just as if I was to have sex with another man, his penis might be wider and longer. It doesn't mean it's more enjoyable on either side.

I love the man I'm with. And I do believe he loves me. He's never once not been aroused with me. The last thing you should be worrying about is your V.

I agree that I'd like to see more men comment on this topic. I think us women tend to compare ourselves in such a negative way. Once I started realizing a man was LUCKY to have me, I lost most of the critical doubt I had about my body, and found I enjoyed sex SO much more.

And on a side note...to the men reading this...if you're watching porn, and getting off to the young whores in those clips, thats contributing heavily to why we feel the way we do.


Me: Done with his bullshit and getting stronger day by day

Posts: 423 | Registered: Jun 2013
myperfectlife
Member
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, September 8th (Sunday)

Logically, I get it. Trying to catch my emotions up to the fact that no matter how good you are, someone will trade you up for worse really does a number on your self-esteem. It doesn’t matter to me what other sexual partners have said about me sexually; I could give a flying flip. It mattered to me about the person I was screwing; only his opinion counted, and if he could easily trade me up, what good am I really?

I totally get this!!
OW is a manly, boring, self centered woman. WS said sex with her was 'mechanical' and they could only do 1 position because he couldn't keep his end of the bargain.
Then why go back? Then why do it at all?
Why ruin my life for THAT?
Wow.
Not to mention the countless dozens of conversations WS and I had about sex before his A which centered on how sex with someone else would be interesting, but not worth it because of our chemistry and sex life being fantastic.
In the end it wasn't about the sex, it was about the fact that WS wasn't good enough for me. And he found someone he was finally better than. The OW.
ETA: WS has always been supportive of my body, sexuality and pregnancies. He loves my stretch marks, his passwords are named after my body parts etc. His desire for me never waned...that is just as confusing to me. Why seek out someone else then?
I have never been jealous of OW's body or sexuality. Her hold on him was not sexual at all...it was just a symptom of HIS sickness that he had sex with her.

[This message edited by myperfectlife at 5:30 PM, September 8th (Sunday)]


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 55