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mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Flame  Posted: 8:08 PM, August 26th (Monday)

we are in an open relationship/marriage

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 6:12 PM, October 25th (Friday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
purplejacket4
Member
Member # 34262
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, August 26th (Monday)

I personally would never pick a human (especially a cheat) over an animal unless there was a medical or safety issue involved.

One of fWS's redeemable characteristics is she loves animals as much as I do. I think 90% of people would have put our crazy overly sensitive practically autistic 95lb black lab down. We just pay for new couches (three) and vet bills (Prozac, etc). I 'm typing this with a broken third finger due to her, ahem, exuberance.

BTW he's using her as a rug sweeping device. Prick.


Me: BS 45
Her: fWS 48 (same sex partner)
Together: 18 years now (both MDs)
OW: meh so what 40s PhD
DD1: 10/30/11EA; DD2: 11/10/11 Had ONS; TT until 12/26/11; broke NC 6/12; NC again 7/12; R-ish

Posts: 2151 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Great Southwest
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, August 26th (Monday)

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 10:08 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, August 26th (Monday)

24 hours after the initial argument, and we're in separate rooms (he's in the living room watching a movie, I'm in another room goofing around on the internet)... I walk into the kitchen (opens to dining room & living room, no walls) for some food....

Him: "What are you doing in here? Can't I be alone?"
Me: "I need something to eat."
Him: "Are you going to COOK something right now?!?"
Me: "No, I'm just getting food."
Him: "I just want to be alone. Can't I just be alone?"

I got my food and left. Why the hell did he say I shouldn't stay the night at my dad's just to treat me like this?

I mean seriously?

And he says he cheated on me because last year I didn't give him the connection he needed.

What the fuck.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 6:12 PM, October 25th (Friday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Threnody
Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, August 26th (Monday)

"The fuck" it is is abuse.

When are you going to put a stop to it?


If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve. ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14040 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, August 26th (Monday)

My STBX got rid of our cat abruptly, no warning, when she got a treatable medical condition. He wasn't even going to give the children the opportunity to say goodbye, but I raised Holy Hell and told him he could wait 60 seconds & let the kids give the cat a pet. We were all stunned, STBX simply grabbed the cat carrier, shoved the cat in the carrier and stormed out of the house. I had to physically assault him to get him to stop long enough for the kids to say goodbye. We were all extremely traumatized. The kids to this day cry for their kitty cat. Heck, even I cry for her. She was a loyal, loving, gentle cat who didn't deserve what STBX did to her.

I implore you not to let your WH get rid of your dog. You will never get over it. I know we won't get over having our cat gotten rid of.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9509 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, August 26th (Monday)

NG - omg, omg, omg, omg, omg.

FWIW, I firmly believe all animals go to heaven and I am certain your kitty is in a happy place, waiting to meet you at the rainbow bridge. And probably claw your ex's eyes out.

What am I doing about this? Baby steps. I am not catering to his every whim as I usually would. I am not apologizing, walking on eggshells, killing myself cleaning every surface in our home trying to appease him or make him happy. I will not reward him (by cleaning, trying to appease him, walking on eggshells) for this behavior.

I should add that we are in an open relationship.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 6:13 PM, October 25th (Friday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, August 26th (Monday)

Annnnd now I ventured into the living room for a cup of milk and he goes, "Do you want the couch or the bed?" I say I want the couch. He goes, "No I'll sleep on the couch so it can't be used against me."

I do not use shit like that AGAINST him.

At this point, this feels like no matter WHAT I say or do, it will be used against me.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 12:43 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

You're right, it is a set up. It's a no-win scenario no matter how you play it. I'm so sorry.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9509 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
WoundedOpus
Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

What a PA a**hole :( It is clearly pointless to engage in arguments with him, he's setting them all up as a no-win for you, so just keep doing what you're doing, consistency from you is key. Not that I'm saying it will change him, but it will help you see that's it's not you...the only person you can control is you...codependency habits are a real b*tch to break!


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
WoundedOpus
Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

What a PA a**hole :( It is clearly pointless to engage in arguments with him, he's setting them all up as a no-win for you, so just keep doing what you're doing, consistency from you is key. Not that I'm saying it will change him, but it will help you see that's it's not you...the only person you can control is you...codependency habits are a real b*tch to break!


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
hardtimesinlife
Member
Member # 10468
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

I think I would respond with "F You" every time he opened his mouth. That is horrible. You shouldn't have to defend walking into the kitchen. He's playing games. Tell him to leave the home if he needs to be alone. It's your house too.


Ddays 2004 & 2007
I cut my losses mid 2013
Feeling happier every day :)

Posts: 6088 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Florida
sunflowergirl30
Member
Member # 28979
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

I have had neurotic dogs. Its horrible for the dog and horrible for you.

Not everyone can deal with it. Separate from the infidelity....it is draining.

Have you tried using a gentle leader? They are amazing! Like what they use for horses.

My 75 Lb standard poodle whos the size of a small great dane has to use one. Hes 5 yrs old now and a hyper mess! Spent 100's on obedience. He does great in class but in real life he is a DONKEY!


Together 20yrs married 17yrs
2 kids, now 18 & 15
Bw: now 37
Wh: now 36
Mow: now 49
1st D-day EA w/mow our realtor 4-?-2007, 2nd D-day PA w/ same mow 5-29-2010

Posts: 1058 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Pacific Northwest
doggiemom12
Member
Member # 36041
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

Can you leave the house? Get something in writing that just because you are leaving it doesn't mean you are giving up any rights to the property? That's what I had to do with my psycho late ex.

And take the dog with you. He is abusing you dear and you need to stop it.

Hugs


White bird must fly or she will die . . .

Posts: 268 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: in divorce land
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

redundant :) sorry

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 10:09 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, August 27th (Tuesday)

This man is abusive towards you. Do you recognize this?


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7310 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

I recognize that sometimes when he gets really really really angry, he treats me in a destructive way. Not all the time by any means and not even every time we fight.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 2:41 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
purplejacket4
Member
Member # 34262
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

Has your vet tried prozac? It has been an absolute God send for us. No more ripping the house to shreds!!!


Me: BS 45
Her: fWS 48 (same sex partner)
Together: 18 years now (both MDs)
OW: meh so what 40s PhD
DD1: 10/30/11EA; DD2: 11/10/11 Had ONS; TT until 12/26/11; broke NC 6/12; NC again 7/12; R-ish

Posts: 2151 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Great Southwest
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

He won't have sex with you..and he tells you he doesn't want you around..in the living room because he wants to watch a movie..or in the kitchen(when you are hungry) because he wants to be alone.


He tells you to get rid of your dog...who NEEDS you..because having her around makes him resent you.

He says horrible things about this poor dog..and you cry..and he gets angry at you for crying.


he tells you it's not just his lack of sex drive that makes him want to have sex with you.

Then after he spews all this shit at you..he gets shitty because you're crying and "too sensitive."

This is emotional abuse.

He calls you stupid. And makes jabs at your upbringing. He calls you selfish.

This is verbal abuse.


You're right..he's had 5 years to see YOU. And he hasn't..or he has..and he just doesn't care. This is not how you treat someone you love. He says you're trying to make the two of you into something your not. What does he mean by that?


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7310 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Kierst13
Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate.

How often does your dog growl at him? How *serious* does she sound?

I'm not sure I would be ok with my husband having a dog that growled at me. I wouldn't feel safe or comfortable around a dog like that.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

Private, dog is now deceased (hit by a car) so don't want this online. sorry.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 10:12 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

I recognize that sometimes when he gets really really really angry, he treats me in a destructive way. Not all the time by any means and not even every time we fight.

That fact that you make excuses for him is very sad. It doesn't matter if it's "not even every time". He abuses you...period...and you allow him to.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13722 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

I'm just a "stupid poor person." (I come from a lower class family and he comes from a mansion.)

This statement by him tells you all you need to know about your WH and *who* he is.....

Sorry, but I'm not so sure that I would label your problems w/ him as true 'relationship' issues.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7921 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

I should say, and should have originally said, that after he made that comment, he immediately said, "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that." After I attempted to draw a parallel and indicate that I have to accomodate him, the fight turned ugly and he stopped moderating himself.

Saying he abuses me - I respectfully disagree. Emotional abuse is, by definition, the systematic diminishment of an individual. When we are not arguing (and we have argued more often than usual in the past 2-3 weeks), he is considerate and kind and really makes an effort to communicate. When we really get into it, its like he becomes a totally different person.... And then when he calms down, it's right back to his normal self.

He just becomes so mean when hes angry.

And no I don't think it is okay for him to be so cold and mean and angry when he is mad. But I also don't think it constitutes abuse. If it was constant, or if he got that angry every time we argued, that would be a different story.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 6:11 PM, October 25th (Friday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

Saying he abuses me - I respectfully disagree. Emotional abuse is, by definition, the systematic diminishment of an individual. When we are not arguing (and we have argued more often than usual in the past 2-3 weeks), he is considerate and kind and really makes an effort to communicate. When we really get into it, its like he becomes a totally different person.... And then when he calms down, it's right back to his normal self.

He just becomes so mean when hes angry.

And no I don't think it is okay for him to be so cold and mean and angry when he is mad. But I also don't think it constitutes abuse. If it was constant, or if he got that angry every time we argued, that would be a different story.

I told myself the same things. I told myself that since there were some times he was decent to me, it wasn't abuse. Since he was capable of being nice sometimes, it wasn't abuse. Not every word out of his mouth was cruel. He did sometimes do nice things.

(((HUGS)))


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9509 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

BS I'm calling BS MP. He is abusive as hell and maniPulates you beautifully by playing mr nice guy as long as you tow the line.

You seriously need to put some limits on his behavior. Telling you he doesn't want you around. And you allow it? Tell him to get off his lazy ass and go someplace else like the moon.

About the dog. That's a tough one. I would have issue keeping an unstable dog like that if I had kids the only option would be the hard awful one. She has been abused and unless she can live with only women and no other dogs around or insight she is dangerous. She's a large dog that could do a lot of damage.

I had to make that hard choice with a dog. I had an autistic dalmatiOn. He got really weird/ aggressive after I had our first kid. He bolted through his electric fence and bit a neighbor. Had this person not been an animal lover we could have been sued and lost everything. I certainly couldn't keep a dog I couldn't trust with kids around. So we had to make that very hard decision.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8218 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

Emotional abuse is, by definition, the systematic diminishment of an individual. When we are not arguing (and we have argued more often than usual in the past 2-3 weeks), he is considerate and kind and really makes an effort to communicate. When we really get into it, its like he becomes a totally different person.... And then when he calms down, it's right back to his normal self.

My exwh was the same way, except he physically abused me too. So, by your standard, I couldn't say my exwh physically abused me because he "only" hit me when he was angry. Otherwise, he was very nice to me.

His behavior IS abusive. You don't want to admit it to us or yourself, but those of us who've been abused see it for what it is.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13722 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)

Ummmm....mystic. You are so deep into the abuse that you can't even see it. You can't see how *wrong* the things that he says to you are. Have you looked at the cycle of abuse? Of course he isn't abusive all of the time.....you'd *see* it if he were....and leave him.

By your description, your WH is just peachy keen awesome so long as you are going along for his ride....but when YOU want to blaze your own path, well, watch out. He needs to make sure to put you back into your place.

after he made that poverty logic comment, he immediately said, "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that."

Uh, ok. And how many times has he made the same type of statement to you and followed it up with an "I'm sorry?"

His I'm sorry's after statements like this don't matter because the damage is already done at that point. He tears you down and then gets to rush in and play 'savior.'

Cycle of abuse. Google it and I'll bet that you'll find that it *fits*.
Honeymoon --> tension-building --> blow-up --> honeymoon --> etc....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7921 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
MissMovingOn
Member
Member # 30720
Default  Posted: 1:16 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)

Abusive people aren't abusive all the time. If they were, there's no fucking way in hell they'd ever get someone to stick around long enough to put up with it. They abuse you and then lull you back into thinking they're a decent human being for a while until they strike again.

"Nice guy" 60%, 70%, 80% heck even 90% of the time doesn't mean jack if they're abusive the remainder of the time.


Me: BS, 34
Him: (SA/NPD)WH, 31
Multiple ddays since 2010 (Latest January 15th 2013) - not counting anymore!

Posts: 370 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: West Coast Canada
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)

He is getting better at identifying the effect his words have. I wasn't posting here a year to a year and a half ago but believe me when I say things were 10x worse then.

I just think there is a huge difference between having anger management issues during a fight and psychological or emotional abuse -- and there is a difference between that and physical abuse. There is a huge range of inappropriate responses to conflict and I think for someone (in this case WH but I'm not a saint either) to go from silent treatment and utter stonewalling (like to the point that I have no idea what any of his dissatisfactions were until 6 months ago) to a totally healthy response... I mean it's going to take a while.

Just like my evolution from codependent to healthy isn't going to happen overnight.

All I'm saying is there have been improvements. I shudder to think what you guys would say about some of the fights we had a year ago.

I am acutely aware that that type of fighting is not healthy but rather destructive. And I know that what he says when he is enraged has nothing to do with me.

There is no hoovering, no control, no jealousy, no isolation. Even stepping back from the situation and putting it down on paper, knowing what I know of WH, what our fights start over, our pattern / cycle, and his personality... I see a husband who loses his temper in heated arguments and who has an inflammatory fighting style, and a codepedent wife, in an open marriage together.

Sorry for rambling, it's so late. Thank you everyone for your support. What I really hoped to accomplish and did accomplish was to disengage from the fight, force myself to realize that I can't win when he's in that state, and subdue the fight-induced codependent anxiety.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 6:14 PM, October 25th (Friday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
AppleBlossom
Member
Member # 38541
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)

That is an abuser's MO - make you feel wonderful and bring you crashing down. You are supposed to make excuses for them, so they dont have to. You are doing half the work for him.

I am really sorry you are going through this, but to see you justify and excuse his horrible behaviour is very sad.


Posts: 154 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Australia
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)

It is abuse. To tell you to get out of your own kitchen? If he wanted to be alone he could leave.

He is kind until he is mad. Then he is unreasonable, and the BS of him sulking in the living room for the next however long that went on, is abusive too. He was waiting on you to come boo hooing to him. Good for you that you didn't, but he is still abusive.

We can all say mean horrible things when we argue, but to use your words to belittle, and make one feel less of an equal, or to keep them in line (which is what he did) is abuse. It doesn't leave marks, it's not berating you in public, but it is abuse.

MP keep pushing to find your strength. Consider this though. If you had a daughter, and someone treated her like that what would you call it?

(((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8218 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Topic Posts: 32