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User Topic: A few updates about IC and BH
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, August 29th (Thursday)

IC has been very helpful. I have discovered some things about myself that I wasn't very aware of. I have been keeping a list in my IPad to record down childhood memories that I have to see if I can figure out where this wayward behavior comes from. At each session, I have been talking about events that I remember. I've figured out that I can picture events very clearly, but I can't remember the feelings associated with them. For example, I was talking about a trip my family took to Disney when I was a teenager. I can remember things about the trip, like what we did, where we stayed, etc, but when IC asked me how I felt, I said I must have felt happy - I said I must have been happy, not I WAS happy. My IC feels that I ACT OUT my feelings instead of expressing them. I always thought I was good at expressing how I feel, but she said maybe I didn't know the extent of what I was feeling. She believes that I am a self-aware person intellectually, but not emotionally. She wonders if when I was growing up, my family didn't talk about feelings. I will have to speak to my parents about that. I am getting closer to them and I want each of them to come to one of my sessions to see if they can offer any insight that I can't remember. I am going to continue to discuss my childhood in each session. We did talk that she wants me to learn how to NOT compartmentalize. The easier it is to compartmentalize, the easier it is to engage in inappropriate behavior.

Another thing we talked about in IC today was stealing I have done in my past. Before I start, I'm not proud of the stealing I did, and I was very eye-opening when I recalled all of the things I did. I feel ashamed of what I did. I remember as a kid stealing money that I would find around my house (mostly loose change). Also, in elementary school, I had a teacher who kept candy in her desk for prizes. I remember going in her room during my lunch and taking candy. My first job at 15 was at a fruit/veggie/dried fruit and nut stand. I stole cashews and pistachios as well as fruit and veggies. I worked at an amusement park in a ticket booth. I would ring in that a customer had a coupon, and then pocket the money. I am not sure how much I took from there - I remember using the money to take friends out to dinner in college or buy beer. I remembered I liked treating my friends (I've always been the type of person to buy more rounds of drinks, or treat someone to dinner, etc - it makes me feel good making others feel good.) In college, I worked at a pharmacy - they had an old-school system of people being allowed to have accounts to pay off later. I could have an account too. I remember buying a few things, but then taking more then I was going to pay for. I would also steal clothing out of dryers at people's apartments when I was there for parties - I would put the clothes on under my clothes. When I first started substitute teaching (this was in 99), if I was in a classroom that seemed disorganized, I would take a book or post-its or something like that. Over the years at work, we had an "honor box" for snacks - I would take snacks without paying or pay a smaller amount to take more. As an adult, I have been stealing ideas. I would go into a colleagues room and photograph activities they were doing or go in a file cabinet to photograph worksheets, etc. I know that if I would have asked, they would have shared it with me, because I did this recently and I told my BH and he told me to tell the girl that I took some pictures and was that okay and she said yes (sorry for my poorly constructed sentence.) My IC thinks all the stealing equates to trying to get needs filled - I didn't have something so I wanted it. None of the things were necessary for me to have. I was actually tempted to steal an idea today, but I didn't. I am seeing my boundaries. I obviously need to figure out what made me engage in a risky behavior of theft.

My BH called me a sociopath the other day. It stemmed from me disregarding his thoughts at a car dealership - here's what happened. I was buying a new car. I have a tendency to get talked into things. I knew exactly what car I wanted, which was not the problem. The problem came when we were waiting to talk to the financial guy. I knew I wanted gap insurance and that was it. My BH asked me to agree that when we went in with the guy, I would only agree to gap insurance and shoot down everything else that the financial guy asked about. My BH also asked that I not look at him (BH) and ask for his advice. I did agree to the plan. When we went in the financial guy was talking about the dent package - I had it on my last car because it was a lease - and I said I didn't want it. Then he said the package changed - it included tire damage as well as a replacement window shield if a rock flew through it, etc. I #1 looked at my BH to get his advice and #2 I took the dent package. Needless to say, my BH was super angry. He felt I disregarded him and he feels he can't change me. I told him I felt pressured to buy it, but also I thought it would be beneficial at $8 a month. I wanted my BH to SAY yes or no in the office with the finance guy, even though we discussed it prior. I feel like I constantly need my BH's and everyone else's approval (the irony is not lost on me that my A would NEVER get his or the APBS's approval). He feels I only care about myself. I do not want to believe that I could be a sociopath - I actually really care about people. I'm always the first one to offer someone else help if they need it. My IC doesn't believe I'm a sociopath.

Thanks for listening as usual, SI members. Any feedback is appreciated.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - the sweetest cats you could ever meet!

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
DD - 1/24/13


Posts: 326 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, August 29th (Thursday)

My IC thinks all the stealing equates to trying to get needs filled - I didn't have something so I wanted it.

Pizzalover, I know I've asked you before about living on your own. I think you've got a lot of work to get yourself safe for yourself and others.

Labeling yourself is pointless. You're being lazy and wallowing is a great cover for inaction.

I've asked posters, and have asked myself on many occasions, is this who I want to be? You are missing that gate that slams shut by the mere suggestion of something like what you've described. I'm missing that too. The threat of being caught, the physical risk if you're into hobbies that lend themselves to that, the concern for others isn't developed to a deterrence level.

The stealing deal ideas I don't get. Not because of any moral superiority, but simply I'm too competitive and have to earn that shit. Otherwise it doesn't mean anything. Same reason I won't play the lottery.

You have a flexible morality and are either not confident of your skills or too lazy to hone them. That's not just being in touch with feelings and the freedom to express them. That's a trait you need to explore and dig into.

The car dealership thing is artificial constraints that make no real sense. I understand what your BS was talking about. Thing is new pieces of information can change the picture. If it makes sense then why turn down something that is beneficial as some sort of test? I will say that most of what the dealer offers isn't. That's how they make money and when you add up what you're paying over time you find it isn't worth it. Not sure what the deal was so don't know. Nothing needed to be decided at that moment. In fact, walking away from car showrooms can be a really good strategy all on its own.

I don't think it's ironic at all that you need every one's approval. Makes perfect sense to me. You also know when you're not going to get it how to work around it so you don't have to deal with all that inconvenient uncomfortable conflict. It's not necessarily that you value their good will, it's just that it's necessary for a pleasant life as long as they're a part of your life.

So. Do you like what you see? If not, you're going to need to become comfortable, or at least accepting of some pretty long exposure to discomfort to start to work at modifying and replacing some pretty key aspects of who you are.

I honestly believe many sociopaths (is that the current term) are just very lazy people that see people and things very similarly. Not necessarily uncaring. Just not driven by a humanitarian outlook on life. How dangerous they are is a question of how comfortable they are with risk and bodily fluids. Some do smell and stain.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Labeling yourself is pointless. You're being lazy and wallowing is a great cover for inaction.

I don't feel that I'm being lazy. I'm working my ass off to be more self-aware and to figure myself out. I'm going to IC 2x a week and MC once. I WANT to get healthy for myself and others.

The stealing deal ideas I don't get

Yeah, neither do I which is why I'm addressing them in therapy and sharing here. I don't want to be this kind of impulsive person.

You have a flexible morality and are either not confident of your skills or too lazy to hone them. That's not just being in touch with feelings and the freedom to express them. That's a trait you need to explore and dig into.
and the freedom to express them. That's a trait you need to explore and dig into.

I don't feel lazy, just not confident.

So. Do you like what you see? If not, you're going to need to become comfortable, or at least accepting of some pretty long exposure to discomfort to start to work at modifying and replacing some pretty key aspects of who you are.

If wouldn't be here if I like what I see in myself. Which is why I'm working hard. I know discomfort is going to be the norm for a LONG time. I create this shit pile and need to lay in it.

I

honestly believe many sociopaths (is that the current term) are just very lazy people that see people and things very similarly.

I don't believe I'm a sociopath. Plus BH came back later to tell me he didn't think I was one.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - the sweetest cats you could ever meet!

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
DD - 1/24/13


Posts: 326 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, August 30th (Friday)

I'm glad BH retracted the sociopath diagnosis; let's leave that to the pros. How did you feel when he initially said that? Angry, sad...? Remember, even though you made horrible choices and betrayed your spouse, your feelings are still valid. You're allowed to feel hurt or angry, as long as you take responsibility for your emotions instead of blaming BH.

IC has been helpful for me, too. First meeting, I told her I resemble most of the characteristics of sociopathy. Nope, she said, definitely not a sociopath. Whew. Dissociative spectrum: yeah, but we can fix that.

What I was, and what it sounds like you are, is disconnected from my feelings. I mean, like, literally I did not feel most emotions. Or even physical pain very much. There's a fine line between compartmentalizing and dissociating, IMO. Compartmentalizing can be healthy: think EMTs who see horrific accidents but then go home to their families and have dinner. Dissociating is what I did, therapist says, to protect myself from the trauma of CSA.

I used to steal, too; very similar to you, rarely outright shoplifting, but feeling entitled to a little extra. Ooh, just realized I haven't discussed that in IC yet. So many layers, so little time!

You asked for feedback. Mostly I just wanted to say ICR, and you're not alone. Reading back over your post...you always thought you were good at expressing your feelings. But are they thoughts or feelings? Let's look at the car situation, and play "feeling or thought."

He felt I disregarded him

Thought, not feeling. When you disregarded the mutually-agreed-upon plan, he felt angry. That's a feeling, and it's valid. How did you feel when BH got angry?

I felt pressured to buy it

I'm a rookie at this, but I'm gonna say "pressured" isn't a feeling. I'm sensing you were worried you'd be making a mistake if you passed on the dent package, and maybe afraid Mr. Finance would express disapproval if you said "No."

I feel like I constantly need my BH's and everyone else's approval

Gently, your BH's, or everyone else's? Could BH have been angry because you seemed more concerned about some dickhead finance guy's opinion than his?

he feels he can't change me

This is a major guess on my part, but I'll rephrase (and I certainly hope BH realizes change can only come from within). BH is scared that I'll continue to seek the approval of others "in the moment," and disregard the sworn commitments I made to him.

I wouldn't be here if I like what I see in myself. I created this shit pile and need to lay in it.

What does IC say about thoughts like this? Babe, you're a beautiful soul worthy of love and respect, not a pathetic creature who deserves to wallow in shit. You cannot love another until you first love yourself.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1045 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, September 7th (Saturday)

How did you feel when he initially said that? Angry, sad...? Remember, even though you made horrible choices and betrayed your spouse, your feelings are still valid. You're allowed to feel hurt or angry, as long as you take responsibility for your emotions instead of blaming BH.

I was extremely upset that he called me that. I know my feelings are valid, but sometimes I feel like I deserve to express them - like if I bottle them up, everything will be okay.

I am going to try to take responsibility for my emotions and not blame them on someone else. This is very hard for me. I know the quote "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I love this quote, but I don't follow it. When someone does or says something to me, I blame THEM for how I'm feeling, when I should recognize that NO ONE can make me feel a certain way. I am choosing to feel that way by taking stock in what everyone is saying or doing.

I'm sensing you were worried you'd be making a mistake if you passed on the dent package, and maybe afraid Mr. Finance would express disapproval if you said "No."

Wow! I didn't think about it this way, but maybe you're right. Maybe I'm more worried about what strangers think about me then what people who are important to me, think. Obviously that would correlate to the A. Worrying about what my "friends" the AP and AP's BW thought of me.
I need to worry about people who are important to me and not complete strangers.

BH is scared that I'll continue to seek the approval of others "in the moment," and disregard the sworn commitments I made to him.

^^^^ This!
Wow, I bet you are correct!

What does IC say about thoughts like this? Babe, you're a beautiful soul worthy of love and respect, not a pathetic creature who deserves to wallow in shit. You cannot love another until you first love yourself.

My IC doesn't like to see me putting myself down. This is a trait that I've had for SOOOOO long that it is going to take awhile to change it. Thanks for the kind words. I do want to love myself, because in the end, there's just me.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - the sweetest cats you could ever meet!

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
DD - 1/24/13


Posts: 326 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
Topic Posts: 5