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Reconciliation
User Topic: A look into the shame of a BS for both BS and WS
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Many of you know my story. Many of you have privately thanked me for my attempts at positive and constructive posting. Well here is one I wanted to state myself.....

My shame

I don't know how many other BS's felt shame after their WS's A was discovered but boy oh boy did I enter into a world of my own shame when my new world came to light. For the past year I have never been able to put my finger on why I, the BS, should feel shame as deeply as did.

This morning it came tome like a bolt of lightning. My shame was a direct product of my feelings about the ways I had let down my marriage. To realize that you, the BS, had at your fingertips, the ways and means to possibly stop a LTA from happening in the first place was a very sobering moment in my journey. To feel all the same things my WS felt about the lack of intimacy, lack of connection,the fact that all was not well in our marriage and to NOT HAVE HAD THE COURAGE MYSELF TO SPEAK UP is where my own shame has come from. How sad that most of the stories like mine probably suffer from so many similar problems.

Well today I am putting my shame aside. I am steaming full speed ahead into my new life with my RWS and we aren't looking back. I am thankful, yes thankful, that the A between us has shaken us both to our core. We have waisted enough time. It is now time for us to grab what we really want and run with it.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 10:06 AM, August 30th (Friday)]


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, August 30th (Friday)

I certainly felt shame, though not so much any more. My shame came from how I'm pretty sure lots of outsiders would respond if they found out: sisoon not only couldn't satisfy his W, he was so bad that she cheated with a woman!

To realize that you, the BS, had at your fingertips, the ways and means to possibly stop a LTA from happening in the first place was a very sobering moment in my journey.

That says to me you're doing a bad job on yourself. If you had raised the issue, your H would have probably cone deeper into hiding.

It took me one MC session to start to feel there was nothing I did or didn't do that caused my W to cheat. It's terrible practice to generalize from one data point, but ... I think it's true for virtually all of us. Our WSes cheated for their own reasons, not because of us.

Look, TxsT: you were in the same M, had the same issues, had similar dissatisfaction, and your H bears 50% of the responsibility for all of that. If you caused him to cheat, why didn't he cause you to cheat?

Nothing you did or didn't do caused your H to cheat.

(((TxsT)))


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9745 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, August 30th (Friday)

To realize that you, the BS, had at your fingertips, the ways and means to possibly stop a LTA
No, you didn't. The only one who could have stopped it was your RWS.

I concur with everything sissoon said. The only shame I felt was the fact that I was giving a lying, sneaky, cheating man a chance to stay in our marriage. I got over that pretty quick.

I did speak up. We went to MC. Nothing worked. Because FWH wasn't ready to hear and accept responsibility and work on his FOO issues and his other dysfunctional traits.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, August 30th (Friday)

thank you for your in sites...

my shame also came from what people might think but now i know that it really doesn't matter what they think.

Unfortunately, I feel strongly that I did indeed have the ability to speak up when I was feeling unsaticfied in our marriage before the A even started. Many of my friends on SI have also confided in me that they too knew their marriages were not as healthy as they needed to be. Of course I know I couldn't stop my husband from choosing to cheat. Once someone gets that far away from their marriage I dont think anything can stop them.

What I could have stopped was how I kept my discontentment about the state of my M to myself. Why I could never speak up about my concerns for our marriage. Why I was just towing the line and hoping everything would work out. I was INACTIVELY nurturing our marriage as badly as my husband was. That's the part that brings me shame. Why did I settle for the mundain? Why didnt I voice my opinions either? Had ONE of us spoken up we both know now we would have at least changed the direction our previous marriage was going in. might it have prevented an A....my husband has told me it would have certainly been a huge step in the right direction. His A was developed through his feeling that our marriage was over romantically and sexually. He was right in those areas. Had it even appeared to him that I was just as sad, lost and disolusioned I know we would have tried to do something.

I dont take the blame for causing my H to A...thats his cross to bare. But I will always accept my actions, or inactions before the A as a help for the A door to even appear.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 10:48 AM, August 30th (Friday)]


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Please also note that I did not intend for this to be a message to anyone. It is my own revalations on my own journey. It may or may not be relavent to anyone and then again it may help others.

I am sorry that so many of you have much nastier and more unhealthy situations then I do. It pains me to know that there is so much badness in people. But the simple fact that I can take account of my own actions before our A even started is a huge step that every BS has to take at some point in time if they ever want to get to R. It is these pre A things that are at the root cause of an A. In some cases all of the Pre A things are the WS's own inner problems and the BS has NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM AT ALL.

But in my case pre exisiting reasons are at the heart of our A. I accept them, understand them, contributed to them and have taken responsibility for those of them I helped put in our path.

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, August 30th (Friday)

I understand what you are saying TxsT.

Our marriage wasn't healthy before the affair. I knew it. Hence, we went to MC. It all fell on deaf ears to my FWH. Didn't. Change. A. Thing.

I have no shame in this, but I am angry with myself for allowing FWH to treat me the way he did. To allow him to be so selfish. I did speak up. It was always twisted back to what I was or wasn't doing. I built up a wall to protect myself from his selfish ways. That made FWH feel unloved and unwanted and opened the door to his justifications for having an affair. What I should have done was divorce him.

You are not omnipotent, TxsT. There is no way of knowing what you did/didn't do or coulda, shoulda, woulda would have put your WS on a different path. Because, in the end, it is and was his path. His. Path. He was the only one in control of that.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Painfuljourney
Member
Member # 40208
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, August 30th (Friday)

I look at my marriage the past 24 years. Was I a perfect wife? No. I wasn't. I was vulnerable to having an affair myself if enough opportunity came my way. I would have never looked for it. But if a man pursued me, I told my WH I might have done it too.

We didn't have intimacy. He rejected me sexually many times. I was lonely and felt inadequate. But I didn't. He did. So for that I take no blame. I take no blame for his actions. He could have just as easily come to me, discuss with me his issues. Instead he justified it.

Bottom line, WS is the one to blame. We can look back and would have should have could have. But WS did the ultimate betrayal. It's the cowards way out. It's the weak thing to do.

I'm glad you are putting aside your shame. It is a useless emotion. You didn't deserve what happened. And likewise we can forgive our truly remorseful husbands and let them not live in shame forever as well.

It's a day at a time. But we can be happy despite past regrets and mistakes.


BS (me) - 44
WH - 46
DD - July 1, 2013
2 daughters, 14 and 10

Posts: 102 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, August 30th (Friday)

NOT HAVE HAD THE COURAGE MYSELF TO SPEAK UP

Kudos to you on the self examination.

If it makes you feel any better, I did speak up. Frequently and repeatedly. I read every book I could get my hands on. I begged for marriage counseling. I planned get-away weekends. I had enough lingerie to stock a small boutique. And on and on.

It never made much of a difference.

So, maybe speaking up would have helped and maybe it wouldn't have. But I think your ability to be so introspective is cool nonetheless.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1065 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, August 30th (Friday)

My husband did speak up years before the A happened. He spoke up and I did not want to follow his desire to seek counseling. I think it was the way he approached me. I was extremely depressed and he knew I needed help, that we needed help. But when he asked if I wanted to get help it made me feel like he didnt think he needed any, that it was all my fault I was the way I was. Had he said WE need help to get through this I know I would have gone along.

We have spoken often about our perfect storm marriage. So many things involved in it we really had no control over. As non US citizens at the time we needed to be sponsored by a US firm. Once sponsored you are beholden to that firm until your green cards are approved. Think of living for 15 years being held back because you weren't a card carrying holder?? I dont care who your are, the BS or the WS, 15 years of feeling trapped by circumstances you CAN'T control or change yourself is hell.

Thank you Heforgotme for your post. Your words are the real reason why I posted this. So many SI members have asked me how I got to where we are today....positive....this in site into myself is one way I got there.

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Hello,

Your not alone I too felt shame! The Shame i felt was that I DID contribute to what was happening in my marriage.
No I didn't send him on his merry way to log on and have an online affair, no I didn't make him talk to other women, BUT I knew his time online was extended, I knew that if he was on it, I could get onto my facebook, or get on an do the things I wanted to do, I could go shopping WITH HIS PERMISSION this was great. I went to bed each night on my own safe in the knowledge that I wudnt have to have sex, that I could relax and cuddle into nice clean bed sheets by myself. I let him do what he wanted to do.

I don't BLAME myself for what happened, no - he did it all ... BUT, also with a little help and shove from me!


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 12
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
kg201
Member
Member # 40173
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 30th (Friday)

My husband did speak up years before the A happened. He spoke up and I did not want to follow his desire to seek counseling. I think it was the way he approached me. I was extremely depressed and he knew I needed help, that we needed help. But when he asked if I wanted to get help it made me feel like he didnt think he needed any, that it was all my fault I was the way I was. Had he said WE need help to get through this I know I would have gone along.

I connect with this statement. It took me a while to recognize that I needed to look at my depression and ADHD issues. My realization that I had anger issues was also a slow process. But what gets me is that my WW put so much energy into pointing these things out, and when I finally started to get the help I needed and began showing progress, she was not willing to see that progress through. She wasn't willing to stand by me. She chose instead to focus on her needs with the affair, as opposed to our needs as a couple struggling through many difficult issues.

In the last few weeks since Dday I have begun to recognize more and more how much of our marriage has focused on her and her needs. Our separation is the first time in a long time where I can and am ready to begin understanding my real needs.

[This message edited by kg201 at 11:28 AM, August 30th (Friday)]


Me: BH, 39
Her: WW, 40
Together 18 years, married 15+
LTA 3.5 years, ongoing
Dday: 7/28/13
Divorcing, 3 children
---------------------------------
"There can be no friendship without confidence, and no confidence without integrity." -S

Posts: 581 | Registered: Aug 2013
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Must also add that 9 mths after DD we are getting there, we are happy ...

I am happy, and not because he logs on, im happy because he doesn't and he spends his time with me!!!


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 12
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, August 30th (Friday)

The part you are not looking at, TxsT, is that your WS had other options.

Gosh, none of us are perfect. Yes, I have many imperfections and flaws. They gave my FWH JUSTIFICATIONS for having an affair. But, even if I had become the perfect Stepford Wife, FWH would have still had an affair because me becoming a Stepford wouldn't have changed who he was.

eta: If I had become perfect, his justification probably would have been that I was too perfect, who can live with perfection? Also, in the "Dumbest shit they've said" thread there is these two winners: One WS said he had an affair because his BW ironed too slow, the other WS said he wouldn't have had an affair if his BW made her delicious lasagna.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:40 AM, August 30th (Friday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, August 30th (Friday)

I was never a stepford wife thank god but I was one who didnt have the courage herself to speak up when things were bad. I was the good old girl wife, following what my own mother had taught me to be when confronted with a verbally abusive husband....keep quite, it will all blow over.

I am sorry that the simple fact of me even admitting any fault in the past has upset you. Yours were not the type of responces that I really expected to get since I am well past being hung up about my husbands A. I am comfortable in our new direction and very much in agreement with Painful.....I could have easily had an A myself by the time this all started.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 11:44 AM, August 30th (Friday)]


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
BeyondBreaking
Member
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, August 30th (Friday)

I felt a lot of shame after the A, but not for the same reasons you did.

1) I felt ashamed at how other people might think. I was scared that they would think, "beyondbreaking can't keep her H sexually interested. He had to turn to something more."

2) I felt ashamed that after the second time he did it, I decided to R. I should have left. I didn't, and sometimes I still think that shows weakness and not courage. WH took that to mean that I wouldn't leave no matter what he did for a long time. He probably wasn't wrong.

3) I felt ashamed that I wasn't perfect.

4) I felt ashamed that our relationship wasn't perfect.


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
roses303
Member
Member # 40161
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, August 30th (Friday)

My shame was a direct product of my feelings about the ways I had let down my marriage.

I understand you completely TxsT. I don't take the blame for the affair but I do feel shame for letting my marriage get to the point that it happened. While he was off having an affair, I was contemplating divorce because I didn't know if I could continue living like we were. It isn't that I didn't talk about it, but he didn't understand and I didn't push. Or maybe I did and he just disregarded what I was saying but I never took the next step and said "look we need to fix this"

I don't take any blame for the first time though. That happened because he was selfish and felt that his wife was putting too much time into his kids and neglecting his needs. I'm sorry, but I do not feel any shame for focusing on my health (a very complicated C-section), a baby and a toddler who both breastfed until 2, a husband who wasn't around to help with the kids because he was working long hours at a start up.

I wasn't neglecting him. I was just spread really thin for a few years. But when he looked at our friend, the OW, who had a child the same age as our youngest and she was propositioning him because she wasn't getting enough from her husband. He didn't consider that she had 2 grandmothers taking care of the kids and a husband who was around all the time. My WH thought, there is something wrong with my wife, how dare she punish me by not wanting to have sex every night, I have proof right here, OW wants it, wants me, therefore my wife is wrong. I take no blame for my husband making this decision. He chose selfishness over understanding, he chose his pleasure over his family and his marriage.

After that affair happened (although I never knew about it) I had the opportunity to work on the marriage. The kids were growing. I had more time. I could identify my needs. I knew that our relationship sucked. I could have done more to try to fix what was wrong. Instead I looked at my parents, I looked at his, I looked at other long term married couples and saw that their lives weren't always perfect so I rationalized that a sucky marriage might just be a phase we needed to work through. I read up on aspergers and other possible reasons for my husbands unavailability and I tried to come to peace with the fact that he might never be the man I needed because he didn't have the capacity. I did a lot of research and rationalization but I never said. "We need to fix this or we are over" because I thought that marriage was sacred and to death do us part and I thought he did too. I was wrong. Do I feel responsible for his affair - no. Do I feel some shame for the state of our marriage - yes. and I know I need to get past that shame. TxsT - I applaud you for getting to that point. I hope to be there someday.


Me: BW - 46
Him: WH - 49
MOW: my BFF from college and good friend for 25 yrs
Married 14 years, 2 Tweens
DD: 5/20/13 2 year long EA/PAs (one 7 yrs ago and one this past year)
Status: day by day, in MC, working on R

Posts: 141 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: roses303
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, August 30th (Friday)

Awww, TxsT, I am not upset. I actually feel sorry for you.

You are under the delusion that you had/have control of your WS actions. That any actions (or inactions) by you controls your husband.

Even if you had gone to MC back then, would your WS have owned his shit? Even if you owned yours? Who knows. But that has nothing to do with you. You owning your shit is separate from him owning his shit. And, there is nothing you can do to make someone own their shit.

Sorry that my response is not what you expected. It is good to see your faults and to own them. As I have said, I am not perfect. I wasn't a perfect wife. FWH had some legitimate complaints about me. If I had fixed all those faults would that have changed FWH? No! Why do you feel that if you had changed that would have changed your husband?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, August 30th (Friday)

I know exactly where you are coming from Txst and here is the place to write down your feelings, without being judged. I know exactly how you feel, and I don't care who thinks what. I know I wasn't to blame for my H online affair BUT I could have prevented it if I had talked with him instead of ignoring the fact we had drifted apart. I could have turned internet connection OFF, I could have invited him into my bed instead of drifting off to mine by myself etc etc ... we had drifted apart and he looked elsewhere for companionship, which led to cybersex, which led to online affair ...

I am happy 9mths after. I try harder at my marriage, and so does he ... what is so wrong in looking deep inside yourself and seeing the mistakes you made, and trying to right them ...


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 12
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
SadFlower
Member
Member # 37725
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, August 30th (Friday)

I felt, and feel, a great deal of shame. My FWH has insisted from the outset (D-Day confrontation) that I am in no way responsible for his A, that it is all on him. That I was (am) a great wife. That he has always loved me. That he was a first-class jerk. Nevertheless, I feel:

1. Shame that I wasn't enough for him, sexually and otherwise--even though our sex life seemed great and we got along so well, seemed to enjoy each other's company.

2. Shame that, like so many of you, I lacked the courage to speak up. I knew something was wrong with him during the A years, but I chalked it up to a new job that was difficult and demanding.

3. Shame that I did not catch on to their A earlier. They had a PA for seven years! Seven! (Then two years of EA only.) How could I not have known? My first solid suspicion came about four years into the A. How could I have been so damned dumb? And blind?

4. Shame that I let him gaslight me when I did confront him the first time. (Four years into the A, after first solid suspicion mentioned above.)

5. Shame that I did not push harder during the second confrontation. I had enough evidence that he probably would have cracked, but I thought I needed more to clinch it. And I was not yet ready to face the possibility of divorce. (That second confrontation led, however, to FWH pulling back from the sexual part of his relationship with OW, which made her very unhappy. That's when the PA became an EA.)

6. Shame that I was not strong enough to face the possibility of divorce during that second confrontation. (Feeling ready for that fueled the courage I mustered for the third, and final, confrontation.)

7. Shame that the man I chose to be my husband--a man perceived by everyone to be of sterling character--was really just a garden-variety snake.

What I am proud of:

1. That I did muster the courage for that third confrontation, and badgered him into a confession. Since both he and I are highly conflict-avoidant, it is hard to describe just how hard it was for me to start that conversation. But once I got going, wow! I had him in tears in no time.

2. That I offered R after he expressed extreme remorse and affirmed his love for me. Even if we end up D at some point, I'll know that at least i tried.

3. That R is going well. We have lots of issues to work on, but we are at least being loving and kind to each other.


Me: BW, age 66
Him: WH, age 64
Married 19 years
In R.

D-Day: August 14, 2012
9 year LTA with former co-worker and family "friend"/7 years EA+PA, 2 more years EA


Posts: 356 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Connecticut
devasted30
Member
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, August 30th (Friday)

I too accept partial blame for my WS affair. No, I didn't force him to go looking, but I ignored all the signs that our marriage was in trouble. I don't know why. We both had issues and even though I knew our marriage was okay, but not good, I just let it slide. I showed no interest in intimacy and since he didn't really push that hard, I let it go figuring he was in the same boat as I was. Did I deserve to have him cheat on me....NONONONONO. But, what kind of a fool would I be if I didn't accept the fact that I was at least 50% accountable for the mess my marriage was in.
I know the truth and sugar coating it just doesn't work. I know this could of all been avoided if I had just paid closer attention and worked on my marriage. I allowed it to slide and put blinders on. Anyone who doesn't accept partial blame for a failing marriage is doomed to have it fail. It takes 2 people to make a successful marriage and I wasn't there - my husband carried the ball for as long as he could and then he too gave up. Shame on me. We are in R and it's tough and wouldn't have been necessary if we had just talked....as simple as that.

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
LosferWords
Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, August 30th (Friday)

TxsT - What a heartfelt and vulnerable post.

Shame is a very familiar subject to me. And when I say "familiar", it also ties into another word that derives from the same source, "family".

I started digging into the topic of shame with my IC, and I am still working on it. Turns out, the shame that I have long predates my marriage and my relationship with my wife. It goes back to my childhood. It's rooted in FOO issues.

Turns out the shame I felt as a BH... or on the other side of my coin, the shame I felt as a WBF, was merely an enhancement of the shame that I was already carrying with me.

A book that I have been revisiting from time to time (I haven't gotten through the whole thing yet, it is a very emotionally tough book for me to read), is "Healing The Shame That Binds You" by John Bradshaw. Wow... if anybody "gets" shame, it's Bradshaw. Definitely worth looking into, if you are interested in digging in deeper into this part of yourself, but it is not a book for the faint of heart.

Sounds like you are doing some amazing work on your own at casting shame aside, and treading forward, though. I think that takes a lot of strength, and that is awesome and inspiring.

Take care.


Posts: 6180 | Registered: Dec 2010
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, August 30th (Friday)

Here Here devastated30 ... everything u said


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 12
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, August 30th (Friday)

Thank you everyone for your in sites. Many of you have inspired me through your own stories and struggles

Losferwords... I am going to go and buy the book you mentioned. I too have old issues that I am addressing and the book sounds helpful to my journey :o)

HeartBroken...I have been following your posts and I am so glad you feel you are making progress!!

To Sister.....I really do believe our path would have been different because my H approached me 10 years before he had his A. We both honestly feel we could have changed much of the last 15 years if we had both been more reseptive to fixing us.

I find too many married couples these days are over taxed, over stressed and life is too big and complicated. So many of us just go with the flow in hopes things will get better. Too many of us are worried abvout metioning bad things because we feel it will destroy what we have built. I find this aspect of LTA's very sad. Most of tthe time there was simply not enough attention from either partner to nuture the marriage.

My story has scared the shit out of many of my close friends. They have realized tthat if this could happen to my husband and I this could definitely happen to them. Many have sought out their own counseling to get better communication in their own marriages.

My goal on SI now is to learn from other WS's so I can in turn help my hubby shed his skin of shame. So many of you have helped me make my journey a bit more meaningful. I thank all of you for responding.

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, August 30th (Friday)

I did carry a lot of shame in the beginning aftermaths of DDay. My WH had consistently said that I don't do this or that enough for him. Not enough sex, not enough talking dirty, not enough connection, etc etc. So when the A happened I thought it was because of me. Then there was my WH and the MOW both blaming me for the M falling apart. MOW said I damaged our M before she got there. I was a mess for months.

Through IC I have turned this thinking around and realize how flawed my WH's thinking was and still is.

It is no surprise this event has brought me shame. Shame is not a new emotion for me, it has been by my side as a SAB survivor and is something I will always have to work against.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, August 30th (Friday)

Crazy....i am glad you have been able to refocus your outlook. It is so important to do that. To think of having the AP say anything in nature to me that she said to you. How horrible!!!!

For what it is worth, my AP is delusional and still feels, after a year of no contact from my H that she is rightfully his most loved, neatest friend in the whole wide world.....how would you like to be her BS????

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, August 30th (Friday)

I have felt shame as a BS as well. I actually thought our M was great during my WW A's. I feel shame because I didn't notice the issues my WW had, I didn't notice the signs of her A's, I just wasn't paying close enough attention. When I noticed something not right, I didn't have the courage to say anything about it. I let me WW come home late in the middle of the night without even bothering to ask where she was at. For that I feel shame, but certainly not blame. I hold my WW 100% responsible for the blame.

Feeling some sense of shame is not a bad thing though. Think back to when you were in school and did badly on a test, you likely felt shame. It is that shame that motivated you to try harding for the next test. Same when dealing with this. If something is off that your WS did, have the courage to say something. If things are not going well in the M, take the initiative to fix them as best you can.

Don't let shame turn into blame but let it motivate you to do your best.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Nov 2012
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, August 30th (Friday)

((((T))))

I can totally relate to what you are saying here... and thank you to ReunitePangea for that wonderful course correction of shame vs. blame. That's an idea I can work with!

I, too, feel a lot of shame for letting my M disintegrate and for being so oblivious and TRUSTING for the longest time. Head way down deep in the sand. And, once, I started to suspect, saying nothing! Nothing! Internalizing all my fears, stress, and anger. So not healthy.

Yes, I even had shame, thinking about what others must think about me and whether I was "good enough" for him. I have abandoned that bit of shame, though. I have come to realize and accept that he holds the BLAME for the choices he made. I am working on improving my self-image, so that I can agree with people when they say, "how could he ever do that to such a beautiful, wonderful, caring, compassionate human being?" Now he needs to do all the self-discovery to figure out the answer to that question. Not me.

I am sure that my teenagers feel ashamed of their father. And my DD is ashamed of me for being willing to try to R.

There's so much damn shame and blame to go around, isn't there?

(Sorry, if I'm making no sense today and rambling. I had an awful run-in with DD last night with H present and trying to "help". I'm an emotional mess today. end t/j)

I am glad you are operating from a position of strength. I think your introspection and willingness to take accountability for your part in letting your M slide is the reason your R is going well. I am proud of you and your progress. Stay strong and stay happy!

(((T)))


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 632 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, August 30th (Friday)

Still!!

Thank you for reading. My trip to NYC has been nothing but hell and I will send you th whole story tonight.

I am so sorry to hear about your D. At least it is good to hear H was watchging! I want to hear all about it.
T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, August 30th (Friday)

all affairs are ugly and bad.

you know what i feel shame about?

i feel shame for how i allowed myself to be treated like a doormat. i saw things in my m that were red flags, and put my head in the sand because i was too scared, and too insecure to stand up for myself, and demand respect. i wasnt strong enough to show him the door when he was foul.

him choosing to cheat for whatever reason....and his reasons are the same as most waywards....but him choosing to cheat is all on him. he was an asshole for making such a foolish, selfish decision that has rocked our world. he should feel shame for that.

i dont take any responsibility for those stupid decisions. sure, we had issues...but what married couple doesnt? i had issues...just like him...but i didnt make the decision to have sex with other men to make me "feel better." have i thought about it over the year?...of course...i am human. but deep in my heart, i knew that i wouldnt not cross that line...simply because i knew how deeply hurt that kind of betrayal would bring to my spouse.

he chose a different path.

he had every opportunity to try to work things out with me before cheating. but he wanted the new, exciting side sex more. and that is just the truth guys. the cold, ugly truth.

the only thing i will take responsibility for are my shortcomings in the m....pre a. i could have made some changes. i own that...and that is why they are being addressed in mc.

but he needs to fully own fucking around. that is all on him...and has nothing to do with me.

just another way we as BS blameshift by taking any responsibility for our spouses fucking someone else.

they did exactly what they wanted to do...and it had nothing to do with what we did or didnt do.

they sought it out, like fucking on the side, and thought they could get away with it. and if the ap was on board with him being married, then all the better in keeping it on the down low.

my h is remorseful and trying to be the model h now...and we are doing well in our attempt at r.

but i dont for one minute think for a second that what i did or didnt do pre a made him decide to cheat on me. no way. btdt. and it doesnt help the healing anyway.

he did that. all on him.

[This message edited by sri624 at 6:09 PM, August 30th (Friday)]


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 916 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, August 30th (Friday)

This is a fact: No matter what we did or didn't do, we didn't cause or make our WS's have an affair.

This is not a "feeling" "thinking" or "believing". It is a fact. Unless we held a gun to our WS's head and made them fuck the AP, we have absolutely no blame whatsoever.

with a little help and shove from me!
I can understand a BS wanting to lay some claim to the blame of the affair. It implies that we somehow had control of the situation. If we have control we can make sure it doesn't happen again. Thing is, we have no control over what our WS's do. We can only control ourselves. We can only change ourselves. Changing ourselves doesn't change someone else.
But, what kind of a fool would I be if I didn't accept the fact that I was at least 50% accountable for the mess my marriage was in.
No, you were 100% responsible for your part of the marriage. Your WS was 100% responsible for his part in the marriage, and 100% responsible for his choice to go outside the marriage. You know, if we only put 50% effort into our jobs, we would get fired. The state of our marriages and the affair are two totally different issues. I can agree that a crappy marriage can make both partners vulnerable to crappy coping mechanisms ie, drugs, drinking, gambling, adultery. A crappy marriage or a crappy marriage partner never makes anyone drink, gamble, do drugs or have affairs. Yes, we need to look at how we contributed to an unhealthy marriage. We need to own our crappy behaviours.
I really do believe our path would have been different because my H approached me 10 years before he had his A. We both honestly feel we could have changed much of the last 15 years if we had both been more reseptive to fixing us.
Yes, many of us here had unhappy, troubled marriages. But, many here had very happy "healthy" marriages. So, why did those WS's cheat? Of course in hindsight we can see all the places were we went wrong, or were we could have changed our course, possibly.
To realize that you, the BS, had at your fingertips, the ways and means to possibly stop a LTA from happening in the first place
All I am trying to point out here, TxsT, is that no YOU didn't have at your fingertips the means to stop the LTA. You had at your fingertips the ability to change your behaviour. Doesn't mean WS would have changed his.

I am sorry TxsT, you don't have the ability to control your WS's actions with your actions.

eta: to fix a bunch of mistakes!

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:27 PM, August 30th (Friday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, August 31st (Saturday)

So many thoughtful posts here.

I feel sad that our, mostly good, marriage got into a mess. I feel sad that I didn't push for counseling earlier. I feel sad that the need that my husband expressed over and over again went largely unmet and, when coupled with some other issues, allowed him to rationalize and pursue an affair.

I feel very sad that I tried, to the best of my ability, to meet the need with the tools I had at the time, and I still fell short. But, I feel angry that he put all the blame on me for not meeting this need, when part of the responsibility was his. His not taking any responsibility helped keep us in a terrible dynamic, which led to him having an affair.

So, it is like a dance. I can see where the decision to do it was all his -- and his actions are all his. But, the conditions that led up to it were certainly half my fault. There is really no way around that. But, I don't think I feel shame about it so much, as much as sadness.

We have learned so much.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1739 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, August 31st (Saturday)

Bionic....

I am so sorry he blamed you.....I have never had that said to me and I can't even imagine how I would feel. We sound similar in our pasts. Isn't it interesting how many different paths come from the same situations????

I wish you luck on your journey

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
Dreamland
Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, August 31st (Saturday)

Thanks all for posting .. New at SI and posting here.
I felt so ashamed..because i too feel like I am a lessor wife...what could I have done to avoid this.. He rejected me and pushed my away but I allowed it to deteriorate I didn't got to him because I was Too Proud.. Look what that got me.. A fucking whore in my house.. She's young but seasoned and knows how to pick her man. My husband wasn't looking for an affair. It did fall in his lap.. Literally.
So I feel shame that peopld will say she couldn't keep her man happy and he went for a young one.. Ugly and squatty as hell but none the less 25 yrs my junior.
I also am ashamed I took him back..do people think I'm desperate to stay with a cheater. This hits close to home cuz my dad cheated on my mom but she stayed with him. They argued my whole life.. i didnt lnow until i was a teen why or what. But once I found out I swore I would Never stay if that happened to me.. Now I am eating crow..

Also I am ashamed at my mom. Because I found out she was the OW.. And my dad divorced his first wife and married my mom. I found put the real details after my dad passed away. So not only am I ashamed but I am angry at her. I would never go out with another woman's man PERIOD.
So I am ashamed that my parents did this to my step brothers and sister. I understand their pain and anger. Even though I was young and I didn't understand the dynamics it's clear they hated me and my sister.
Yes Shame.. I have it and I understand how you feel.
It is a shame we couldn't avoid these destructive behaviors .. Us BS living likes Zombies.. the selfish OW/OM with their false veils of shunting 50% of their role in the destruction and our WS choosing to act out instead of looking in and realizing that we were just as unhappy, needing love and attention and desire but hoped that they would some how return to us.
Thanks T


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, August 31st (Saturday)

Dreamland

As always I am saddened when a new member shows up on SI. What a horrible world we live in!

Your post was very heartfelt and I am so sorry you are going through not only the BS thing for yourself but you are also realizing that your mom was an OW.

I have to admit I did not know really how I would react to an A until it honestly, truly happened. I had suspected for almost a year and a half since my husband continued to spiral downward and I had absolutely no idea why. I went through a lot of different scenarios during that time....lots of what ifs. I even rationalized that it was our fallow marriage that had caused this. But once I figured out WHY our marriage had gone fallow I was shocked to realize that I wanted what I call a do-over. I didn't want to leave my sweet H of 32 years, I felt that I wanted the M we should have had from day 1 together.

I will say only this though....my husband gets only one shot at making this right. Yes we will have many ups and downs and mistakes will be made and corrected but if he EVER does something like this again he is toast. My children will make sure of that.

I will look for your posts in the future and I hope your time here brings you good advise. Thank you for sharing your story. Your post is exactly why I felt I wanted to start this thread. Sometimes we BS's need to hear a certain thought said in a different way or shown in a different light. You brought up things that made me sit back and go wow.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 11:16 PM, August 31st (Saturday)]


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, September 1st (Sunday)

Thank you TxsT
As a BS, i have thought many times I should have fought harder to correct the "BAD" that was going on pre-A" in our marriage, I should have insisted on making her have a converesation --making her talk with me about emotions that were not being met in our marriage s well as other issues that truly needed to be addressed, but each time i tried to have that talk with my WW, (remember her LTA was 7 yrs and poss. 10?) she would find an excuse as to not have that conversation at that time.

It was "not today we can talk later I/ve had a hard day at the office" or i would get the palm of her hand in my face while she would say "too much information at this time"
i need to relax my brain.

In retrospect, i know today why she didnt want to discuss our issues because she was knee-deep in her "A".

Our MC told us each of us we are responsible for our participation in the marital problem-issues 50% each but my WW was 100% responnsible for her "A". I did not make that decision for her she made that decision for her and also for me. CC said she could have found other ways to deal with our issues perhaps a separation or setup marital counceling or just filed for "D" but she made a "choice" all by herself and was 100% responsible for that choice.

WW didnt like that and agrued that openly in MC and IC. This is most likely why she didnt like any of the books C gave us and I gave WW to read.

We were in family counseling with same C for our daughter's eating disorder issues when I found out about her "A". I have 2 months of IC all aobut my wifes "A" before I confronted WW.

WW lied to the MC about her "A". To this day WW thinks her "A" had nothing to do with our d''s eating disorder.

When I had my confrontation with WW, it was choriographed completely by C in my IC session. We role played the session before i confronted and it worked well for me.

Every time WW lied to me when i connfronted, I would calmly ask "would you like to re-think your answer"?

I told WW that C knew of her "A" and she got angry and insisted we have a CC the next night and she apologized to Dr. S for lying to her.

Then 3 mos later while they took the "A" underground", (no physical contact during those 3 mos only phone calls) I had a VAR in her car which did a great job while she and her AP talked on her bluetooth with 11 speakers in her car and AP's wife sent me voice msgs & test msgs. left on her husbands phone by my wife she was playing detective during the night.

I played the conversations for counselor before i confronted a final time about her lying on NC..and again told her Dr X knows about your lying on no contact as she also heard your conversations with your AP. I played several of them for her.

Again...we had couples session the next night and she openly apologized to counselor. (again-serial liar)
So with all this being said, if there is shame WW has not expressed that to me,all she ever said was she ws "embarassed" ..for what getting busted?
but im too much of a proud man, father and son-in-law to out her behavior to family.
If we dont make it, and "D" it will come out. it always does in a "D".

No one knows, except 5 people AP, AP-wife, WW, me and our CC.

Daughter would be devastated if she found out, she had threatened suicide multiple times when she was fully into her Eating disorder...down to 94#, hypo -glycemic, panic attacks frequently. I couldnt let that happen, things may have been different if i didnt have a daughter to think about. but ill never know as ive decided to take this journey and its been a rocky road

BS-me 59
WS-her 57
LTA- 7 yrs maybe 10? (former boss)
Daughter-24 yrs former ED and OCB today
Married 25 yrs.
D-day -March 2012
Confrontation day-April 2012
True NC- July 2012
ended MC October 2012 (at WW's insistance)
in "R" but its really tuff and im determined to give this my all
Edited for spelling

[This message edited by hurtsobadinside at 7:48 AM, September 1st (Sunday)]


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, September 1st (Sunday)

Hurts....there are no words I can say rut now to validate your pain because I feel it is so much larger then my own. I am soooooo sorry for this event in your life. Please find a little bit of happiness today and just sit and take it in. We all deserve happiness and now it is so hard to find. Thank you for sharing that. I hope it made you feel even a tiny bit better.

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, September 1st (Sunday)

TxsT
Thank you... :grin
Yes. Your words were very comforting...i am at the lake this weekend as wife and daughter are in Europe for their annual mommy-daughter vacation..and tonite I'm going to the county fair to see The Beach Boys with a good buddy

Thank you and sending you hugs for being a good SI friend


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, September 1st (Sunday)

TxsT
Thank you... :grin
Yes. Your words were very comforting...i am at the lake this weekend as wife and daughter are in Europe for their annual mommy-daughter vacation..and tonite I'm going to the county fair to see The Beach Boys with a good buddy

Thank you and sending you hugs for being a good SI friend


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, September 1st (Sunday)

Oh god you better be belting out some of those good old tunes Hurt!!!! I just get to take another plane ride today. Started at 5 am east coast and won't be home until 7:06 mountain!!

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
Topic Posts: 39