User Topic: Looking back, do you now see it was going to happen
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Looking back at my marriage before the a (9 yrs ago) the more I realize that all the signs were there years before it happened. In fact, at this stage of the game the more I look back at my marriage post a, the more I think h had done it at least one time before.

He was in a job where people (especially women) flattered him all of the time. And now that I look back I can remember all of the times he would make his cute little comments to a waitress in front of me. (I would sometimes meet him at lunch during his work day) Or the way he would talk to any woman when he would tell his work stories. His subtle little comments thinking he was so funny and cute.

So as I see it now, YES, I do think an a had already taken place or was going to happen in the future. Too bad I was so trusting post a thinking that he could or would ever think so little of me, our marriage or himself.

Posts: 2464 | Registered: Sep 2005
Member # 10468
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Yes. I got an accidental Butt dial from him while he was in an OW's bedroom. Early on. He gaslighted, I couldn't prove anything so had no choice but to believe his lies.

Just like your second paragraph, second sentence, I now second guess everything that happened in our relationship. Makes me feel foolish to have trusted so much. I even trusted a little bit after dday one and before dday two.

Ddays 2004 & 2007
I cut my losses mid 2013
Feeling happier every day :)

Posts: 6137 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Florida
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

NO! Oh sure over the years our M weakened and barely existed. Had it started during his period maybe. But no, WW started her 15 year super long LTA about 6 months after our wedding. Really cannot think of problems we were having then. Really wish she had strong enough values to walk away first. Note I am not even wishing she didn't do it, but simply that she left!

Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 675 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

And now that I look back I can remember all of the times he would make his cute little comments to a waitress in front of me.
Ditto. Did we marry the same guy????

me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1:
Episode 2:

Posts: 7099 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Perv had personality traits that should have been red flags, but his duplicity/deceit was so much that I couldn't quite put my finger on it. He had traits that other men had that I met over time-relatives, friends of his and such, so it was sometimes hard to know if a trait was belonging just to him and I was so naïve that a red flag could have hit me right on the head. Some did. Some I knew, some I questioned, like the staring at other women, but would not have dreamed he would cheat, because of the personality he made himself into-model head of household and model citizen. Not now.

Now I recognize things and one of my parents recently said something along these lines, that he thought the personality was "lined up for it"...and that hurt.

But lately when I'm feeling stronger, I think of these traits and things and think that they won't help OW either, will they? He thinks the world is wrong and what he does is fine and we should adapt to him...not the other way around. But he is not like that at first. First it's the charm. The NPD charm.

Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington

Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Member # 18814
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Looking back I saw what my instincts was telling me. But I denied it and my husband, then boyfriend was so charismatic (meaning manipulative) that I ended up the one feeling guilty and inadequate whenever I have suspicions.

I won't deny my instincts anymore. Good news is my FWH knows that I don't trust him and may never trust him and he's ok with that so long as I continue to recognize that he's become a better person.

Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.

Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

"pain" Maybe so.....

"ash".....yep, looking back I do see where h's personality was lined up for it.

"Simple".....Yes yes yes......looking back I see a lot of things I should have seen in my marriage post a. But blind unconditional trust hindered my thoughts of infidelity.

And yes "hardtime".....I did feel foolish and maybe still do. Let's just say that it will never ever happen again because if it does I am ought of her once an for all.

Posts: 2464 | Registered: Sep 2005
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Every day of our marriage, my husband told me he loved me and how beautiful I was. However, before my husband was sent on a remote tour overseas, his boss thought it would be a good idea for him to go to a leadership program. The program was only a couple hours from us so he could easily come home every weekend or we could go there to spend time with him. About half way through the program, he stopped wanting to come home and started ignoring us to hang out with the guys when we went there. I told him how I felt about it and that I was worried that his pulling a way was a signal that meant he might have an affair during the remote tour since he'd be away so much longer. He apologized for his behavior and assured me that would never happen. I'm not sure who's timeline is correct but if it's the OW, he was only there a couple months when the affair began. If it's him, he made it about four months. Pretty sad after 17 years of marriage that he couldn't make it away from us until his mid-tour leave. I originally chalked it up to how difficult it was to stay in touch because he was overseas and I didn't have a cell phone. Phone calls were super expensive so we did most of our conversations by email or chat program. But then he had the second affair and couldn't use that excuse.

The second affair, he had to be in another state for four months. He wasn't even there a month when the affair started. I had no idea it was going on. We spoke for at least an hour every single day. He sent me emails telling me how much he loved me and how beautiful I was. It didn't feel all that different from when we were together other than distance. It's been three years and I still can't believe how good he compartmentalized. He was home for a month when her husband called me and I never had a clue right up until that moment.

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson

Posts: 4145 | Registered: Sep 2005
Member # 29826
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Oh hell yes. I was reading the signs, but they were in another language. I'm at the point now where I have forgiven my naive self from back then, I didn't have the tools to recognize what was already in side of him and growing.

Me 48yrs, king of douchebagastan- 50yrs STD infected bankrupt NPD sociopathic drunk thief
countless A's, he is a predator that targets losers like himself
Last Dday 04/12/2010-Divorcing if/when his cumdumpsters lend him some $ or balls to file

Posts: 1521 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Ingersoll Ontario
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

No there was no way I could see it would happen. I saw plenty of clues (like most BS). I have beat myself up for "ignoring" it. You know what though I did not ignore it. The only way I could have seen it would be if I believed it was possible. I could not believe that she would. Unless I had caught them in the act or found blatant evidence there was no way I could see it – because of what I believed.

Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1135 | Registered: Jul 2011
Member # 40161
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

In between the 2 affairs with my BFF (the OW), we were camping together as families. I was in a really bad spot emotionally and remember thinking that WH and OW seemed to have so much fun together and that they probably should have married each other (OW was the one who introduced me to WH when she was married to her first husband). Little did I know that they had just ended an 18 month long affair and would do it again a few years later. I saw the signs, I just didn't think that they meant anything. I never thought either of them were that type of person.

Me: BW - 46
Him: WH - 49
MOW: my BFF from college and good friend for 25 yrs
Married 14 years, 2 Tweens
DD: 5/20/13 2 year long EA/PAs (one 7 yrs ago and one this past year)
Status: day by day, in MC, working on R

Posts: 141 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: roses303
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Things had been rough, we were not connecting much. There was one evening, I can't even remember what he did or said that made me think this, but I thought, He's having an affair. Which I immediately brushed aside, because he wasn't That Guy. Later I realized that moment was right when his professional relationship with MCOW turned into an EA. So, yes, I knew, but I didn't let myself believe it.

Always trust your instincts...

[This message edited by StrongerOne at 7:48 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 872 | Registered: Sep 2012
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

I do know that I too didn't see it slapping me in the face like most of you, but what I am talking about here is post a many years before the a/a's took place.

As most of you have already answered my question, the signs were definitely there well before the a was even a thought, or at least in my case. I look back now and I can clearly see even years prior that he had it in him to create such a nightmare. The problem with most of us is that we had blind faith. Going back post a to the very start of the relationship or marriage would we have ever given it a thought?

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 8:17 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

Posts: 2464 | Registered: Sep 2005
Member # 38141
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Wh is in a profession notorious for cheaters... I used to listen to co-workers (women) rave about how he was such a good guy, blah, blah, blah. I used to listen to how 'they' would all go out, blah, blah, blah. I should have realized earlier, but I really and truly thought he was made of better stuff. After all, we had talked about some of the others (friends) in the profession and how they had ruined marriages.

ME - Betrayed Spouse
Him - Wayward spouse
Not sure, but trying I guess.

Posts: 477 | Registered: Jan 2013
Member # 38865
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

Yep, having looked back over the 16 year relationship X had all the right qualities to be a Wayward:

*selfish - check
*me/relationship last priority - check
*empty words about changing behaviour but no action - check
*inappropriate interactions with females - check
*constant need for validation - check
*master liar by omission - check
*lack of empathy - check
*jealous of me, needed to 'one up' me constantly - check

and the list goes on..........

Me: Awesome - 35.... ummm, not anymore

"I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel". –Maya Angelou

Posts: 752 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Australia
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

No I did not ever think he could do this. Even with the sagging things in our marriage I could not begin to imagine this.

The hardest thing to know now is that, if we had tended to our M better I doubt the A would have existed at all.


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!

Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
Member # 36456
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

I honestly thought we were a normal couple dealing with work and kids like everyone else. Just in a "down" cycle. He told me every day multiple times a day that he loved me. He kissed me good morning/good night/hello/goodbye. He held my hand while we watched TV. We had great sex.

But now I see that he was actually pulling away from me. The distance that I felt and thought was "normal" was actually due to him delving into internet sites/chat rooms/porn he shouldn't have been in and over time, 4 OW he shouldn't have been in either!!

I knew our marriage was not #1 on his priority list but I NEVER thought he was cheating...

Me (46) WH (42),2 boys 15 & 11
M 18yrs T 22yrs
Separated 10 months (4/12 to 2/13)
Final Total - #1/#2 ONS and #3/#4 EA/PA - left me for #4, didn't know about #2 and 3 until he moved back home
We are solidly in R now

Posts: 792 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Dallas, TX
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

TXBW......looks like we are on the same page with this one......sorry for you, sorry for me!


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!

Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
New Member
Member # 38350
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, September 5th (Thursday)

When we were first together, I never in a million years thought he would cheat on me. He was so loving and so into me. Now, after finding out he's cheated for the second time, I can't imagine him ever stopping and it makes me so sad.

How we deal with tragedy defines who we are...

Posts: 17 | Registered: Feb 2013
Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 1:04 AM, September 6th (Friday)

Yes, I see lots of red flags. The first one appeared just before I fell pregnant with our first son. But I believed his gas lighting, wished I knew then what I know now.

"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1361 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
Member # 40102
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, September 6th (Friday)

Yes, I am sure in my heart he has cheated before, now that the light has turned on for me. At one point years ago he accused me of cheating, at the time I was utterly mystified. I wasn't, and I had just given birth, and he had been resentful and absent throughout my pregnancy. A huge jerk really. He keep saying he was trapped. At that point we had been married for years. It made no sense, until fast forward a couple years when he started being a huge jerk again and I found out about his girlfriend, sigh.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Midwest
solus sto
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, September 6th (Friday)

I see some red flags in that 20/20 hindsight.

But really, Mr. Trac-Fone is an extraordinary liar, and does so with amazing alacrity.

I can see now that there were times when, really, I just wanted to believe him. But for most of our marriage, I did.

I can very clearly see, now, that there was almost nothing else that COULD have happened, given who he turned out to be. I was not always aware of that---he is personality-disordered and worse a very convincing mask that only started to crack a few years ago.

But he took it off now and then in earlier years and gave me a glimpse; I simply had no context in which to frame the information.

Now I do.

BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8844 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
New Member
Member # 40321
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, September 6th (Friday)

I saw the writing on the wall. I told him our M was in trouble, our communication was not good -talking to him about it made he be 1) in denial 2) created avoidance and 3) annoyed that I doubted him. He refused to address it or go to counseling. I''d bought martial books & DVD. He watched part do the DVD, but that''s about it. His overly flirty / friendly self-centered behavior continued. He thought i was just nagging too much. Told me I was just jealous & insecure. Then he began an EA which which turned to PA and he wanted out - all in the space of 2 weeks!

So, yes I saw it coming. Actually shocked it hadn''t happened sooner. Dumbfounded how in such a short time he thought he "loved" her and was willing to throw way our marriage, family & destroy our business for someone he barely knew without even trying counseling.

2 years later after 10 months of MC we are in recovery. Are you ever sure it won''t happen again? If so, I have gotten there yet.

BS(me)48; WH 49
High School Sweethearts
Together 32 years
Married 25 years
DD, 20 years
Dday 8/11
In Recovery

Posts: 22 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: United States
Member # 33202
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, September 6th (Friday)

Oh yes. My WH has always thought that he was right about everything (politics, money, porn, the kids, etc). We usually agreed about most of these things. I think his enormous sense of entitlement and selfishness led to the A.

One red flag was that after a political argument I gave him a Valentine about squabbling but loving each other anyway. He wrote horrible things about my political views that echoed talk radio all over the Valentine. It nearly broke me and he STILL thinks the things he wrote were justified!

Posts: 723 | Registered: Aug 2011
Member # 19825
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, September 6th (Friday)

No. My WS was not a flirt. Did not use porn. Did not hang out or go to strip clubs. We just had out first child which he wanted. Our marriage was in a good spot. We were starting our family life together. He was in agreement with all of this.

PS. He was also worked in a mostly all male domaint enviroment. Until he hired the whore, there are no woman that do this type of work, except one who he hired.

[This message edited by 2oldforthis at 8:52 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

He did not see what he had in me, what I saw in him I did not have!

Love kills slowly.

Posts: 1647 | Registered: Jun 2008
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, September 6th (Friday)

If I am looking at this in a healthy, helpful way: Yes, I look back and now see that our marriage was in a bad place, that I was depressed and anxiety ridden and so was H. But I trusted him. I did not think he was capable of doing something like this. And there was really nothing I could have done other than realize that we both needed help and to go to a MC.

NOW, if I am pain seeking and not being healthy about this, there were TONS of signs along the way and I put up with being treated horribly. H was a rebellious teenager and I was his parent who had NO control over what he was doing and was afraid to try to control him.

I can do a lot of damage to myself if I only focus on what I should have seen and when. The truth is, for whatever reason - denial, blind faith, laziness- I lived through it and did not act in accordance with my gut. I can't go back and I am NOT going to beat myself up for it. The A happened because of two selfish people who were ONLY thinking of themselves and did not consider the consequences of their actions. It's unbelievable to me that they carried on like this for 2.5 years but they did and we all have to live with it. H and I are trying to reconcile...I am not sure what value is added to the process by causing further mental anguish to myself for agonizing over every detail I missed in the past.

BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 28156
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, September 6th (Friday)

I guess I might be different. Or at least it isnt mentioned here. I did look, and see. I was worried, for years. I saw all the signs. I saw the first sign. I saw middle, end and current signs. I prayed. I talked to him. I asked questions. My H works out of state, all the time. Most of 20 yrs. I could only do so much. sit in fear. I grew up in a violent, alcoholic, unfaithful, neglectful family. I have never been naive. I have experienced it all, on every level, already. I felt helpless, raising the children alone, insanely busy because I was raising the children alone. I just kept thinking, sooner or later, I will know. I looked and investigated, but I have zero access. Until then, I focused on my kids. Its the perfect profession for cheating. I do not think he has done it often. He is not a complete and total bastard. He seems to have some level of love for children, but now its habit for me to deal with everything. He has provided for us nicely, he has a mental checklist of all the things he must meet towards family when hes here. Its just kinda planned and empty, and eases his conscience. THere was never any urgent clues, or reason to act right now. I keep waiting to know something. That is, Until this coworker, that blew it up. I still have no admission. I have no proof, other then her bad behavoir, which he claims to not understand. But,,,,,, I have never been naive. Now, H still works out of town alot, I am alone alot, I have no proof or admission, I am depressed, but I have no urgency. I am already alone alot. And I keep my eyes wide open.

a trigger yesterday

Posts: 951 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: athome
Member # 16652
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, September 6th (Friday)

Yes. After my H retired from the military, where there were few interactions with women co-workers, he ended up in a job where he worked closely with 3 women. He talked to me about them all and he had a protectiveness towards them because the boss was a misogynist pig, among other things. I was actually quite proud of the way he looked out for them.

I also started to notice a weird thing. After years of marriage where my H never left the toilet seat up (this was not really a huge thing to me, but it must have been to his mother) he started to get lax about this. It occurred to me that it was a form of taking me for granted, although I didn't feel that in other areas. But added to this there was the one woman co-worker my H spoke the most glowingly about. I teased him about it even.

One day he had a softball game that was rather far away. I offered to go with him, but he practically begged me not to. When he left I began to stew about it and was convinced he was really meeting with someone else. Imagine my surprise when he called a couple of hours later to come get him and take him to the ER. He was really at the game and got injured! Ended up getting ACL surgery eventually. I realized that all my fears were silly nonsense.

A year or so later my H left that job, at my urging, because the boss was making him miserable (although he sure enjoyed being the KISA with those women co-workers and it was hard for him to leave them). He met OW at the new job. They were both new, had orientation together and training together. Within a few months they were in the A.

It took me a long while to realize the A because his cell was riddled with calls to the women from the old job (still talking about the boss until eventually they all left), but then also new women (yes plural) at the new job. We had a talk about it and he cut down the calls (all made on his hr long commute). I trusted. I'd had that silly notion with the SB game, remember? It was a while before I noticed that all his calls were then to one woman, every day, day and nite....well you get the picture.

When the A finally came to light my H insisted that there was no involvement with any of the women from the old work place. But H did agree with me that those relationships (with all the validation and KISA elements) had become a gateway drug for him to move onto an actual A. For one thing, those relationships had allowed him to trust friendships with women, so when the OW befriended him his boundaries were flimsy. He fell hook, line and sinker for all of the OW's manipulations and was in the A before he even knew what was happening. He was like a babe in the woods.

My H's behavior towards me during the actual A was so completely different than when he worked with the 3 women that I eventually did believe him that nothing happened with them (although one of them I think actually did have a thing for him but never made an advance). But I still wonder about that day with the softball injury. It was like a foreshadowing of things to come....

It's not really a fairy tale 'till the witch is deposed and a few dragons are slain

Posts: 1787 | Registered: Oct 2007
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, September 6th (Friday)

I understand that we all had a gut feeling during our ws's a. But post a I can clearly see now that the signs were there from the very very beginning of the marriage. Looking way way back I can see the signs were there even before we ever met.

Now granted, we all do stupid things as we grow up but shame on us if we don't learn from them. A good example of this is what I heard from h's lifelong friend some years after h's a with our neighbor..... When h was 20 years old (way before we ever even met) he had a very bad breakup with the girl he wanted to marry who dumped him for another guy she did marry. So they both decided that the best thing to do was to screw each others brains out all night long the night before her wedding. She was so proud of what they had done that she told him she wasn't sure if she could walk down the isle that afternoon at her soon to be wedding because she hurt so bad from screwing all night long every way possible.

So there you go. I just wish I had known this prior to my meeting him and marrying him years later. That would have been my first clue that he was capable of doing just about anything and not really giving two shits about it.

It's actually to bad years ago the two of them didn't actually end of marrying one another. They both deserved it.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 2:30 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

Posts: 2464 | Registered: Sep 2005
Topic Posts: 29