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Just Found Out
User Topic: Should my wife tell me his name?
tomsmtih304
New Member
Member # 40582
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, September 6th (Friday)

I just found out a month ago that my wife is in the midst of an emotional affair. Apparently about 6 months the other guy, who was a friend of hers at work, told her that he had feelings for her. She obviously never mentioned this to me - she also never mentioned this guy who she was becoming such a good friend at work - they had lunches together often, talked behind closed doors about their personal lives, feelings, goals, dreams, etc. The about 3 months ago she started having feelings for him and communicated that fact with him.

During all this time - I was working hard to improve our marriage after she had expressed concern and discontent. I was feeling her drift further and further away and couldn't understand it. So I kept questioning her about things and why she was just not there anymore and finally she told me about the other guy.

After it came to light I demanded that she cut off all contact with him or else I would be done with our marriage. She agreed and supposedly told him that they no longer could interact at all at work outside of necessary business matters. She refuses to tell me his name. I want to know.

She tells me that it just isn't her secret to share and that he has to okay her disclosing this to me. But it is driving me mad - I live in a small town and hate that I will probably bump into this guy from time to time and won't even know it. Why should he know who I am but I am left in the dark. My wife and I are trying to reconcile now but this is such a point of contention. Anyone have any input? Is it healthy for me to want to know?

[This message edited by tomsmtih304 at 12:00 PM, September 6th (Friday)]


Posts: 3 | Registered: Sep 2013
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Whoa!

Yes, you need to know who he is. And now.

Your wife is deep into what we call "the fog" which is basically a nice way to say she has her head up her ass.

She is protecting her affair partner over her SPOUSE. It is very much her secret to share. No spouses should have secrets from one another. Period.

There is much more to know and learn about this process, but to begin, in order for you to consider remaining married to her, she must offer this information.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6359 | Registered: Jan 2011
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, September 6th (Friday)

What you need to do is ask your WW why she's protecting him.
If she's really interested in you marriage, she needs to be an open book.

NO SECRETS !!


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 461 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, September 6th (Friday)

tomsmtih304,

first off I am very sorry you have been betrayed like this. You are not alone, there are lots of guys who have gone through very similar situations here on SI. You are a guy doing your best for your marriage and your wife has taken complete advantage of that.

If your W isn't wanting to give the other man's (OM) name, she is protecting him. Which unfortunately usually means she is still contacting him. Why else would she not want you to know. Because then her little fantasy world would no longer be "her" little fantasy. There can't be 3 people in a marriage. She wants 3 and obviously that won't work. It's bs and you deserve better.

She agreed and supposedly told him...

If you truly want to make this work with your wife then you need to MAKE SURE there really is no contact (aka NC) going on. Your wife (W) needs to prove that to you. Some people have done NC emails, letters, and phone calls. Do what works for you.
Being that your W works with the POS, is it possible for her to switch jobs to make you feel better about NC? If she refuses then you may need to start looking out for yourself. There is a yellow box to the left, click on The Healing Library and study up on the 180.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Lucky2HaveMe
Member
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Total honesty and transparency is required for R. Anything short of that = secrets being kept.

I'm thinking this OM is married and doesn't want his wife finding out...

Make complete honesty and transparency an absolute requirement for you to even consider staying in this marriage.

Sorry you are here, but you will find a lot of support here. Check out the Healing Library in the yellow box on the left of the screen. You will find several very helpful articles there. Might I also suggest you get the book NOT JUST FRIENDS to help you make sense of this nonsense.


Indian wisdom says our lives are rivers. We are born somewhere small and quiet and we move toward a place we cannot see, but only imagine. From Tending Roses

Posts: 6264 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Well let me tell you - you've got one selfish and completely UNREMORSEFUL wife on your hands.

Right now, she's not in ANY position to call the shots. However, if she IS then you're not standing up for yourself.

Don't apologize, don't beg for the information, don't cajole her for it and don't bargain for it. Tell her she's got EXACTLY 12 hours to give you the information and if it isn't given to you by then, she's going to find all her stuff in garbage bags out on the front lawn.

It's time to take charge, Tom.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1717 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
BAMAC
Member
Member # 39334
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, September 6th (Friday)

My wife refused to tell me his name at first. While I eventually got it (it turns out he was her supervisor), her not telling me made it easier for her to see him, talk to him, work for him and in general ignore my condition of no contact. She would even talk about him when telling me about her day.

If I had known from the start, my conditions to attempt to save our marriage would have been different. I would have told her that she needed to quit immediately instead of continuing to work there while looking for a new job.

You need to know the truth to be able to make good decisions about your future and because keeping secrets is not fucking acceptable.


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
Divorced 7/10/2014

Posts: 82 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, September 6th (Friday)

I agree with BAMAC, your wife keeping the OM's name as a secret means she can and will carry on with the affair.

Tell your wife that she can have her secret but she must immediately tender her resignation from her workplace, thus ensuring the affair would be difficult to pursue. If she refuses to tell you his name or leave her place of work, then divorce is an option to consider.

You must win this battle or the EA will soon be become a PA; if it hasn't already. WS's do tend to be a little free and easy with the truth.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
sportsfan
Member
Member # 9918
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, September 6th (Friday)

What is her rationale for not telling you who he is??

Posts: 1939 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: PA
LAFA
Member
Member # 31868
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, September 6th (Friday)

I agree with all the others Tom. You need to know the who, and if he has a wife, she needs to know the what. Why's will need to follow.


When you put someone on a pedestal, they quickly learn two things. The view is mighty good from up there, and it is a fine vantage from which to kick.

Posts: 183 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Hawaii
tomsmtih304
New Member
Member # 40582
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Her rationale is along these lines.....I shouldn't be focusing on the affair partner. My focus should be on the issues in our marriage that even allowed her to be in the place to need support from another man. She also says that she told him that she wouldn't tell me his name and doesn't feel she can go back on that without getting consent from him.

She has also said that knowing a name does nothing for me. Amazingly, she has tried to say that I need to trust her because I have no way of knowing if she has really broken it off. They don't text, email or anything - it has all been at work conversations. Sure I can be part of a NC - but outside of sitting next to her at work for the rest of our lives, I can't really know if she is following the NC or not.

And changing jobs is not an option right now - we just moved her about a year ago for her job - not many great jobs in a small town. I have considered asking her to move with our 2 little ones to another town - but one of the reasons we are having marriage issues is that we have moved cross country twice in the last 3 years. Another move could be too much for us to survive.

I don't know - I am confused how handle this - I see all this 180 talk and knowing my wife. If I play it that way - it will just push her out the door. She is very headstrong and quick to make decisions. If I try to play it cool and not fight for our marriage in some ways, I think it will be over.

Thanks so far for the information. I also am happy to hear from some of the WS out there who can relate to why she doesn't want to tell.


Posts: 3 | Registered: Sep 2013
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, September 6th (Friday)

She has also said that knowing a name does nothing for me.

Not to be blunt here but are you going to let her tell you what you need at this point? She abdicated all sense of power and control over anything moral in regards to you when she CHOSE to go outside your marriage.

The marriage issues are just that...marriage issues. They aren't reason's or excuses for having an affair. Trust me, I got and still get blamed for the A my STBXWW had. You didn't choose this, your W CHOSE to do what she did. She could have had boundaries in place and said NO at anytime. Instead she CHOSE to continue the betrayel. You are getting blameshifted here and you don't deserve any of that.

If I play it that way - it will just push her out the door. She is very headstrong and quick to make decisions. If I try to play it cool and not fight for our marriage in some ways, I think it will be over.

I have been in this exact same frame of mind and dealing with the same type of WW. That tells me you are dealing with a nonremorseful entitled person. She is not going to take responsibility for what she has done until the consequences are right in her face. And even then she might not.

The 180 is for you. It is a way for you to gain back some independence and sense of self that you gave up at some point in the marriage. It is to get your strength back and focuses on you. Start doing some of things you enjoy. Take up a hobby or sport. Take some time for yourself. Make yourself a priority and get yourself grounded again.

I realize all of this is a shock and all the aspects of your personal life that come into play when trying to deal with all this seem overwhelming. Take same time here. You don't have to make any decision right this very second. Let the initial shock where off. Keep your eyes and ears oper. Let her prove to you that she wants to be in this marriage. If she isn't, then you have some choices to make for YOU.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, September 6th (Friday)

She's probably not telling because he's someone that she works closely with at work, like her boss. And the promises she made to HIM? So her promise to some random guy supersedes her promise to love, honor, cherish you until death do you part, forsaking ALL OTHERS? Um, forsaking all others means NOT KEEPING OTHER PEOPLE'S SECRETS FROM HER HUSBAND!!!! (Sorry to yell, she just really pissed me off!)

She's also trying to move the focus off of OM (other man) and onto why she "needed his support" in the first place so she can get you to behave like the perfect dutiful docile H she wants while she is still frolicking at work with the OM. Listen, right after DDay is NOT the time to start working on marital problems, for the first year or so it's going to be all hands on deck to just deal with the infidelity. After that is dealt with, THEN you two can start working on the marital issues. If you try to do them out of order, or at the same time, you'll both go mad with stress and likely fail.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, September 6th (Friday)

YES. If she is serious about working on her relationship with YOU, she needs to be honest and process this whole thing. One way of doing this is to start coming clean with herself and you and giving you the details (not graphic physical ones but details).


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2013
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Are you sure they are not texting?

I would take a look at the phone records, Tom.

I bet you will find a number texted more than any other. If not there, then email. The pattern seems to be, once it progresses, they really can't seem to NOT stay in contact.

If you can get a number or an email address, you can perhaps get his name.

Realize, her not giving you his name is showing who her loyalty is to....

It is out of balance because the loyalty should be to you.

My guess is that he is either married or in a position that could be troublesome for the both of them, or both.

Keep digging. And do not take her reasoning. Tell her if she wants him, she can go to him. Call her bluff.

Hugs. Keep posting.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1452 | Registered: Jun 2012
pewpewpew
Member
Member # 38116
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Oh wow.
What a selfish person she is...

Yes! You have every right to not only know WHO he is but for her to be open and honest for the rest of your marriage.

This is no longer a secret. She betrayed you and your trust...

Fuck that noise.

I would demand answers and if she didn't comply with my wishes, I would serve her with D papers.

She is protecting him when she should be focused on YOU and what she can do to make you feel safe.


ME: 30
WH: 35

Fool me once - Shame on you. Fool me twice - pack your shit and get out.


Posts: 310 | Registered: Jan 2013
sportsfan
Member
Member # 9918
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Dude, she's not giving you his name b/c she's protecting him, plain and simple. There is absolutely no other reason. And for her to suggest that she would need HIS consent to tell you is absurd.

Don't buy her bullshit.

I agree that doing the 180 will help YOU. Please re-read it, understand it, apply it. She won't go anywhere.

One more thing and please understand that although you're hurting you really need to hear this ... whatever she told you was the tip of the iceberg. There is more. The A was probably physical and was likely with a married man ... it usually turns out that way.

Be firm with her. If you want the AP's name, and you sure should know it, then demand it. Do not compromise on this.


Posts: 1939 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: PA
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, September 6th (Friday)

She made a promise to the OM?
What about the promise she made to you on your weeding day?
Why should you ever trust her? You already did and look what that got you.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 461 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, September 6th (Friday)

She's protecting him over rebuilding with you.

She's choosing him over choosing you.

Whatever "selfless" rationale she gives you is window dressing.

It's crap.

MrH wouldn't tell me anything more about xOw2 than what I saw in the emails...her name and that they worked together. I walked around absolutely traumatized, not knowing if any woman I saw was her or even looked like her. After going through that, I believe that the WS is either in the M and an open book to the BS or they should GTFO and leave the BS in peace to rebuild without the cancer of a selfish WS eating away at their heart and safety.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11133 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Crumbled324
Member
Member # 33902
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Tom,

I'm sorry that you find yourself here. Please take the advice that has been given to you.

T/J - DEMANDING the OM's name at the get go is one of the many things I would do over if I had to. I didn't, I was scared could only think of losing my then 4 year old daughter. My wife told me it didn't matter, you don't know him.

I finally got a name and how she new him. That he wasn't married, that he didn't have kids. It was of course all a lie.

A few weeks later I had the phone number blocked from our phones. I asked the operator who it was. It was of course the person I initially thought it was. He was married with kids and of course she knew it. Told her that I knew. There was promised no contact, etc., blah, blah, blah.

7 month's later of false R I found the receipt for the secret "Affair Phone" bought the day after I blocked the number.

Do yourself a BIG favor. Grab a box of Hefty Bags and start loading her clothes into them. Clean our her closet. Tell her you are taking them to (insert friend or family member that cannot keep a secret)and tell her dirty secret is not yours to keep any more! Tell her if the kids ask you will tell them she is helping the sick friend.

She is welcome back in the house when she can start being honest and begin the work on fixing what she destroyed. She can start by giving you the OM name.

Just threat of this plan of action drove home to my wife that I was DONE playing games. I have never in my life caused drama or made a scene. She knew I was deadly serious. Didn't even have to pull out a garbage bag.

This crap with his name ends when YOU say it ends. Read that again - When YOU say it ends. End it today. She is in the FOG. I'd bet my paycheck that he is married with kids.

I don't post much, but this one hit home. Please try to make it over the Betrayed Men thread in the I Can Relate forum. There is a lot of healing in there. One month out is a scary place to be, please take care of your health and read up on the 180.

[This message edited by Crumbled324 at 7:27 PM, September 6th (Friday)]


BH: 45
fWW: 44
Beautiful 7 year old daughter
Married 21 years, Together 27 - High School Sweethearts
Reconciling

Posts: 86 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Michigan
Thefly559
Member
Member # 40268
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, September 6th (Friday)

My brother I am sorry you are here , truly I am . But since you are ,you should know that your wife is lying , blame shifting and protecting another "man" ( piece of shit ) over you ! It hurts I know , my stbxw did exactly the same she gave no closure at all , no remorse at all , and that is a special kind of pain. Do not make my mistakes , be strong not weak , do the 180. Be firm stand your ground ! Do not get pushed around like I was in the beginning please. If she does not tell you then leave her ! Do you have kids? Either way you need to get up in the morning as I do and look yourself in the mirror , for me I could not and she didn't care anyway ! The emotional is worse than the physical from a marraige standpoint I think it is a betrayal of and with the heart. This is much harder than a one night stand ! So be careful as you proceed ! I wish you all the best , it sounds like you have a journey ahead. I hope not. Good luck.


"what does not kill you , makes you stronger"

Posts: 631 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nyc
Runninggirl
Member
Member # 9973
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, September 6th (Friday)

This is posted so much. It caught my eye because I posted similiar when I was going through it.
It doesn't matter WHY, but I am curious as to what her reasoning is for not telling you.
At least, what reason is she giving you for not telling you?


Shock has worn off. Now the 'fun' begins.
After several years of solid R, (F)MOW
CHECKS IN in to say Hi~ H CHECKS OUT briefly and "forgets to tell me" because IT HADN'T gotten
physical this time. 4 months out again same MOW

Posts: 2852 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: The Valley
Runninggirl
Member
Member # 9973
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, September 6th (Friday)

PS-- I missed that you already responded to the 'why'
I totally overlooked it.
Seems to be standard answer in the JUST FOUND OUT.
Sorry you are going through this.
RG


Shock has worn off. Now the 'fun' begins.
After several years of solid R, (F)MOW
CHECKS IN in to say Hi~ H CHECKS OUT briefly and "forgets to tell me" because IT HADN'T gotten
physical this time. 4 months out again same MOW

Posts: 2852 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: The Valley
RidingHealingRd
Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, September 6th (Friday)

that he has to okay her disclosing this to me

^^^What a load of shit.

I would tell her to reveal the name or pack her bags and get out. If she values the M more than the OM she will tell you.

If she reveals his name, find out if he is M and tell his wife but don't let your W know that you are going to do this. You don't want her giving a heads up to OM so he can formulate the "This guy is crazy" story.


ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 3.5 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 2109 | Registered: Nov 2011
brkn_heartd
Member
Member # 30396
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Sorry you are here. This would be a deal breaker to me. She violated your trust, your marriage and your vows...now she is asking you to trust her because she owes it to him? Her head is in the wrong game and obviously feels no remorse as to what she has done and only guilt for being caught. If she is not willing to be transparent now, she never will be. It is your decision on how to pursue, but you need to decide if this is a deal breaker for you. If it is....stick with the consequence. If not, figure out how to deal with it. The 180 helps you to heal.


Me-51 BS
Him 58-WS
Married 31 yrs, together 34
Affair Aug-Dec 09
official D-12/14/09
broke NC 1/31/10
second D 3/19/10

Posts: 1575 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Northwesten US
flup
Member
Member # 21259
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Her rationale is along these lines.....I shouldn't be focusing on the affair partner. My focus should be on the issues in our marriage that even allowed her to be in the place to need support from another man.

Whoa! Dude! No way! She's blaming YOU for her affair! SHE made the choice to do this, YOU didn't get a choice, did you? This was HER CHOICE of action. This had nothing to do with you - Don't let her shift the blame to your shoulders.

She also says that she told him that she wouldn't tell me his name and doesn't feel she can go back on that without getting consent from him.

Eeeengh! Wrong answer. The thing to do is to draw your line. What do you want and need? Do you need to know who it is? Of course you do! She doesn't tell, then go see a lawyer - tomorrow! If nothing else it might slap her enough to pull her head out of her ass and give you what you need to feel safe in the relationship again. If not, find out your options from the lawyer.

There's a good thread in the "I Can Relate" forum for betrayed Men. We can help.


Me: BS 55
Her: fWW 50

D-Day #1: 12 Aug. 2008. WW's 2nd affair w/college teacher.
D-Day #2: 18 June 2009. Affair #1 with neighbor was fall of 2002 - while I was coping with the fallout from 9/11.
Still trying to R.
22 years married


Posts: 428 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Ohio
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Your wife is gaslighting and blameshifting. IMO, assume she is still involved with this man because she is defending HIM instead of YOU.

Read this tactical primer by SerJr:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Take care of yourself.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Tom she values the OM and her secrets more then her marriage.

She either tells you or you pack up
Her shit and put her out. Let her support you and the kids if needed.
Head strong or not she has her head up her ass and you need to pull it out!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 2:57 AM, September 7th (Saturday)

Well if she wont tell you who he is find out yourself. Most WS think they are very smart and secretive. But the fact is they are sloppy and leave a paper trail a mile long. Start by analyzing the cell bill. Look at the detailed usage for repeated call to certain numbers. It will stick out like a sore thumb. Another great way is to install a keylogger on the PC. Trust me pal there are always ways of finding out things. Just invest some time and effort. We have a saying around here: TRUST BUT VERIFY. Chances are she is still in contact with this asshole. Good luck Bro.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5613 | Registered: Nov 2007
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 3:07 AM, September 7th (Saturday)

Actually I am more angry at you than her.

If sh didnt told you his name even after one month means a lot. Its shows where her loyalty is, she is loyal to OM not you. She is protecting OM and she dont give a shit about your pain or hurt. WHY YOU ARE PUTTING UP WITH THIS? Why you didnt told her to fuck off and come home when she is ready to tell his name and call his wife/ GF and inform what happened at work.
Why you didnt asked her to quit the job and find some other job? You are afraid to move again, you are moving again not because of what you did, its because of what she did.

I dont believe her story that they talked behind the closed doors. Two adults who are in love dont talk behind the closed doors, they are there to do something; we call it sex. She is trickle truthing you and trying to minimise and protect the OM.

Many A thrives and flourish under the nose of BSs only because BSs are scared to face the truth and stand their ground firmly. Every days you allowing her to have contact with her OM even after your knowledge of A is enabling the A. Stop playing nice, its time for tough love.
What is important to you and her your marriage or job? If you want to save your marriage first get ready to lose it.

[This message edited by kannan at 3:09 AM, September 7th (Saturday)]


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 3:17 AM, September 7th (Saturday)

I agree with standing up to yourself and packing her shit up in bags. Nothing like stating a threat (with the absoloute intention of following through). My WH was quite like you wife, headstrong, thought he could get away with it etc etc.

I did two things on discovery day 2,
type questions on a word document with specific questions and told him he had half an hour to answer them all honestly or his guitar would be run over by a car.

He was 80% honest (about as much as you can expect from a liar)

2. I said he had half an hour to help me get his whore down to the park so I could confront her or all of his stuff would be packed in the car. I had already arranged for him to stay with a friend for a month.

BAM, all conditions fulfilled.

That is how I got confirmation on all my suspicions AND A NAME!

She DOES NOT get to tell you what she will not tell you SHE DOES NOT get to treat you like a chump.

Time to stand up and realise you won't take her shit anymore. Because you're worth it


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, September 7th (Saturday)

Tom,

First off, sorry that you are here. This shit hurts more than anything that we will normally ever experience.

You are getting a lot of "get angry and take control" responses here for (2) main reasons---First, it is the correct thing to do, and second, nothing irks betrayed spouses and partners on this site like an unremorseful partner....which is EXACTLY what your wife currently is.

I understand that you may not be ready to put her stuff on the front lawn....I really do. But just because I understand it doesn't mean that it is correct to be passive. You are living your own personal nightmare, and if you were anything like me, you are almost paralyzed with fear of losing everything---your wife, kids, home, and all that is important to you.

But you are going to have to come to the realization that this path can't continue. The easiest question to ask yourself, right at this moment, and with total honesty, is if you can continue the rest of your life exactly like it is right now. I mean that---will you be able to live without knowing his name, knowing that she is choosing to protect him over you, and have no way of ensuring that she doesn't communicate with him ever again?

If the answer to the above is yes, then disregard the following. But if you can't stay like this, now is exactly the time to take steps in reclaiming your life.

You fear that she will leave if you take a hard line. As much as this may not compute with you right now, it is better that she leaves now than tomorrow, 1 year, or 10 years from here, because you will be that much further along in your own personal healing. Don't waste a moment's time with an unremorseful spouse. Make it painfully clear to her that every bit of resistance that you perceive as damaging to the marriage(or what is left of it) is moving you in the opposite direction of potential reconciliation. That you will NOT accept anything less than what is expected in a loving, committed marriage.

The sooner she gets your message loud and clear, the sooner that you will see if you have a partner who is committed to making things work, or who will not do the work on themselves to make them a safe partner for the future.

Remember, you can not control what she does, but you do control your future. Your old marriage is dead....or at least on life support. It has no chance of survival in the current conditions. But it can either be revived or rebuilt with TWO committed partners. Unfortunately, she is not of that material right now.

You have to get past your fears of the unknown. They hold way too many of us back at precisely the time when we should be as proactive as we could ever imagine. No matter what, you are going to look back after time, and second guess many of your decisions/actions. Don't let fear be one of those regrets.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2042 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, September 7th (Saturday)

When a spouse fears for their marriage or pushing their wayward spouse too far is when you have lost control of your own destiny.

Your wife has been emotionally cheating on you for months.

Everyone is right. It ends when you say it ends.

Put a stop to it today. Get access to her cell without her knowing it. If she is cheating at work put a pen var in the bottom of her bag or a var in her car.

Because your wife is not too be trusted as you should already see.

HM


Posts: 828 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
tomsmtih304
New Member
Member # 40582
Default  Posted: 1:01 AM, September 9th (Monday)

I agree with a lot of things being said here. I plan on putting the 180 into effect in many ways. But the piece of advice that is crazy is to start using voice activated recording devices. That is a felony without consent from at least one party of the conversation. That is not a road that seems wise to head down.


As for checking phone bills, emails, etc. She has a iPhone thru her employer - so I have no access to her texting records. I do have physical access to her iPhone so I can see her texts and phone calls. I even know her password to the phone. I don't see any unusual things as of now. And I have access to her personal email account and there has never been anything on there either.

The only thing I don't have access to is her work based email account. But based on the type of work she does - I doubt she would be using that as a method of interacting with the OM. I actually do believe that all there interactions have been limited to face to face contact and there is no paper trail to follow.

I have talked more with her about needing to know his name and she has agreed that when we start see a MC soon, that we can discuss it with the therapist. So I have agreed to table it for now.

A lot of people on here are stating outright that she is definitely lying. And while my wife never told me some important things that were happening - they were lies of omission not bold faced lies when I started questioning her more. She revealed the EA with the OM willingly when I was still pretty much in the dark. There hasn't been any trickle truth - it all came out in one night on D day except for the name. And she swears that that don't work closely together and after she cut off contact she only sees him once or twice a week in the halls of the office.

I think she knows enough about me that if I find out she is still lying that we are done for good. I have told her that very clearly and I am not one that makes idle threats. But in reality - there is no way to actually know what happened without trusting her somewhat. So at some point - if I want to reconcile I have to take what she says at face value and believe it if there is no additional evidence to the contrary. I am not trying to put my head in the sand here - but I can't spend my life fighting windmills either. I plan on continuing to gather intel and doing the 180. That is what I can control right now.


Posts: 3 | Registered: Sep 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 1:46 AM, September 9th (Monday)

Tom,

You can take as much, or as little advice here, and apply it to your situation. There is a saying around here to take what you need, and leave the rest.

One thing I should say is that while you are still feeling your way through the discovery of infidelity, you should not quickly discard the things that seem the strangest to you. As a matter of fact, you should think about them a little harder, because people aren't just suggesting things that are "out of bounds" to you for shock value---but because these are approaches that have had positive(and negative) effects in specific situations.

Another thing that you will start to see clearer is her current manipulation:

I have talked more with her about needing to know his name and she has agreed that when we start see a MC soon, that we can discuss it with the therapist. So I have agreed to table it for now.

See this for what it is--control. She is not seeking the therapist's advice if it is or is not the right thing to do, she is withholding this information because she does not want to reveal her partner. She is protecting him over your needs, period. This is why I am stating that she is unremorseful---because with remorse comes empathy---and she sure as hell isn't feeling your pain. Lies of omission are still lies, and even if she isn't outright lying to you, she is not looking out for your needs.

You can't reconcile with that.

You state that eventually you will have to start to trust her. That is true. But you do not need to trust her at face value without hard evidence. Just because you don't currently trust her doesn't mean that you believe that she is lying...it just means that she is not to be trusted by her current actions.

Words are just that---words. That doesn't do squat to build trust. It is the consistent, continuing actions that are the building blocks to regaining trust. And the pillars to those actions are honesty, transparency, and remorse. You just don't have these at this point. Ask yourself--what is she DOING on her own to rebuild your trust? What is she doing to show that she is putting your needs in front of hers?


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2042 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 2:32 AM, September 9th (Monday)

There are no degrees of lying. Lies of omission are still lies. And in certain circumstances omissions can be more damaging than what you call a bold face lie. Its sort of like The Bill Clinton nonsense. Where he claimed that he did not have a sexual relationship with his intern. Yet he would admit that he had engaged in oral sex with her. Like that was bad but not as bad as having intercourse. And therein lies the gray area. Infidelity is black and white. Lies are lies no matter how they are packaged. Don't allow those gray areas into the picture. It will dilute what has happened and only delay the inevitable.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5613 | Registered: Nov 2007
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, September 9th (Monday)

From my experience and knowledge there are two basic requirements for Reconciling after infidelity
1. A truly reomrseful wife who is ready to do anything to heal the BS.
2.consequences for infidelity. There should be consequences, else why should they change when hey can have their cake and eat it too.

Now, I think one more thing is needed; BS who is not ready to swallow any Bull shit from WS and who is not scared of loosing the WS.

Sadly, in your case you dont have any of these with you for true R.

[This message edited by kannan at 7:50 AM, September 9th (Monday)]


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, September 9th (Monday)

Tom,

You've already had a lot of great advice. I'll just throw my experience in as well. I got the "we don't need to ruin their marriage", "they have nothing to do with us", all that shit. I told her that either she give me his contact info, or we are done. She decided not to. I handed her a piece of paper that I had been working on with what I was going to go for in our divorce. No fucking way was I going to not only be cheated on, but have my wife place her affair partner above me in our marriage. She'd already done that long enough. If she wants to protect him over you, time to walk.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3868 | Registered: Dec 2011
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, September 9th (Monday)

She also says that she told him that she wouldn't tell me his name and doesn't feel she can go back on that without getting consent from him.

Huh really? Seems she went back on her wedding vows without bothering to get consent from you.

What makes him so special that he gets a concrete promise but you did not?

You feel she did omission and did not trickle-truth you? In your original post you stated how you could feel her drifting away but she would not tell you what was wrong. You knew something was off and kept trying harder in the M and she was having her EA.

I know how hard it is in these early stages. I have been there. You want so badly to believe them and to fix it...but you can't do it alone. She has to be able to meet your requirements for a R to work and she is clearly stating she will not.

So sorry.


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2056 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, September 9th (Monday)

I agree with a lot of things being said here. I plan on putting the 180 into effect in many ways. But the piece of advice that is crazy is to start using voice activated recording devices. That is a felony without consent from at least one party of the conversation. That is not a road that seems wise to head down.

I don't think anyone has ever successfully pushed those felony charges against a spouse because it isn't employed with criminal or malicious intent, not when it's on your own property to determine whether or not the environment you are in is a safe one.

Even in the event that it would be true, using a VAR in your own home or a marital vehicle for personal purposes does not mean it is going to be used as court admitted evidence.


In any case, you have no reason to trust her right now. I hope she is telling you the truth but the reality is that she has deceived you already and has placed her loyalty to this man above her loyalty to you. Many WS use secret email accounts - she could easily access gmail or yahoo from another computer you do not have access to that never touches her work email, and many WS also use secret cell phones. The vast majority of WS minimize their involvement with the OP.

It is entirely possible that your wife is telling you the whole truth as it stands and this one thing is in the way, but the unfortunate reality is that if there is a story like that out of all those here on SI, I do not remember it. They're always deeper, tips of the iceberg.

Yes, if you are going to R then you need to trust her at some point - but that trust comes when she earns it.

I linked you to the tactical primer earlier - this is also an excellent post to read, called Before You Say Reconcile:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Good luck.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Revenge  Posted: 4:22 PM, September 9th (Monday)

Her rationale is along these lines.....I shouldn't be focusing on the affair partner. My focus should be on the issues in our marriage that even allowed her to be in the place to need support from another man.

This is blame shifting at its finest.

You have every right to define your deal breakers.

One of mine was to know the OW's name and how and where they met. At first he didn't want to tell me and I said "fine we are done".

I am curious to why your wife can't provide you with this information. It is absolutely her information to share.

She cares more for protecting this OM than your feelings or need to know in order to move on. RED FLAG.

I think she knows enough about me that if I find out she is still lying that we are done for good.

Gently, no she doesn't believe this because she is still calling all of the shots. She is making this about you, your marriage vs. the fact that she chose to cheat on you. She chose to go outside the marriage. She isn't ready to reveal her AP or be honest with herself or with you.

You need to set some boundaries and one would be to know this man's name NOW. If she can be honest about that then nothing she says should be believed.

She regrets she was caught but she is not remorseful. She is not putting you first and there is no way R is possible until that happens.

Sorry you are here but as many have stated, you have to not only do the 180 but start demanding some honesty as part of your ability to stay with her.

Stand your ground. Good luck. Hugs and prayers.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1105 | Registered: Apr 2013
stupidfool30
New Member
Member # 40601
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, September 9th (Monday)

she has to tell you. no more lies and secrets, you deserve to know and she needs to not protect him, YOU are suppose to be number one!

good luck and i pray she gives you the answers you deserve.

you wont be able to move on not knowing, thats the worst part. you will go crazy and look at every man and wonder if thats him..


Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013
nuance
Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, September 9th (Monday)

My focus should be on the issues in our marriage that even allowed her to be in the place to need support from another man.

I know this has already been addressed in this thread but I must reiterate -

This is a bunch of bullshit. This is textbook WS talk. It's so textbook that it is quoted on the cover of the WS handbook.

My suggestion is: increase your surveillance: key loggers, VAR. Give an ultimatum and ask for all info.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1199 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
slater13
Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 12:41 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Tom-

I will bet my next paycheck on the following;

1- Your wife is screwig the guy. If she says EA its a PA. Waywards always lie and minimize. ALWAYS. Your wife is not special. Start reading, almost all of these stories are the same.

2- The OM is married- she is protecting him. Over you!

Wy do you think it is just an EA? She told you that?? LOL. DUDE, she is a liar!!! Get that in your head. Believe nothing she says, only what you see ad can verify.

All of your instincts here are wrong. You are basing your decisions on lies and deciet. The only chance you have to save your marriage is to blow this wide open. Go online, google "retrieve deleted texts iphone", it is easy to do off of the backup file. Most likely you will get what you need as far as proof.

If not, put a VAR under her seat with velcro tape. The VAR in the car took 1 day to catch my WW. You must demand NC and that she change jobs. She has no respect for you. As long as you are her bitch this will continue. Stand up to her. Get yourself an STD test and demand she do the same.

DO NOT DISCLOSE your source of info (VAR/ deleted texts). I made this mistake. I figured I had all I needed. WRONG. You will have to monitor your wife for weeks to VERIFY NC. If you give up your sources, she can take it underground more easily.

And most importantly, you must expose the affair to the OM's wife. This will end the affair. Affairs are like vampires, they thrive in the dark. The light kills them. Do NOT tell your wife you are going to expose, she will give her OM a heads up. But you need proof. Get it.

I am sorry man, trust me , I know how you feel. Eat right if you can and try to sleep. Good luck.

[This message edited by slater13 at 12:47 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 160 | Registered: Apr 2013
Topic Posts: 44