|Just Found Out|
Topic: is this concrete proof of an affair?
Member # 40607
| Posted: 1:30 AM, September 9th (Monday)|
Not in a million years would I have thought my marriage would suffer such a blow. My wife and I have been married for almost 15 years and have 3 beautiful young children. Most would consider our family, lifestyle, background, education,and achievements to be the American dream. Both of us are highly educated and run our own successful businesses/practices. My wife comes from a conservative and somewhat religious background.
About 4 years ago, my gut told me that there was something wrong. She was distant and always angry with me. We shared less and less intimate time together. When I asked if there was something wrong and if she was having an affair, she laughed and reassured me that nothing was going on. She told me, that if she were to have an affair, she would divorce me first. I told her that I wanted to be the best husband possible and make her happy. I also told her that if something were ever wrong with our marriage I absolutely needed her to tell me so I could try to address the problem. I stressed to her that I can't read minds and do need to be bluntly and openly told of potential problems.
I pretty much left it at that. But, I did suspect she was involved with someone in her office. My absolute fear was that she was having a sexual affair with a custodial or engineering/handyman guy who had an office right next door. I know my wife has a thing for a a certain ethnic type men. My wife is generally reserved and not very talkative to unfamiliar men. But, on 2 separate occasions, I did notice a distinct change in her behavior (and physical proximity) when in the presence of a certain ethnic men. There are other things that clued me into her inner desire that I have purposely not mentioned.
A year or two went by. We were as usual super busy with our careers and kids. Then, the unthinkable happened. I contracted pubic crabs. At first I was not sure what I had. All I knew was that my groin area itched like mad and that I had all these little red bumps and bite marks. When I showed my wife my inflicted area, she barely gave a response and simply shrugged her shoulders. I treated myself with one of the leftover Head lice bottles (our kids are school aged) and the infection cleared away.
I figured it was head lice or something like fleas I picked up in the yard. I have never been unfaithful to my wife. She is the only woman I have ever been with. Actually, she is the only woman I have ever kissed. So sad.
A couple months go by and I notice my wife going into to her office more than usual. One on early morning I happened to accompany my wife to her office. As we were standing in the office, one of the custodial staff guy (of that particular ethnicity) flamboyantly opens the door of her office (without even knocking). The look on his face ("Daddy's here") and just the way he entered my wife's office made me incredibly suspicious. Nobody does that. This is a professional office. He works as a custodian/handyman. Unless he has been here before - many times and alone in the office with my wife. It physically sickens me to think about this.
Long story short...after 4-5 days of emotional turmoil, agony, and very little sleep, I went to indivisual counseling. I decided to ask my wife if she was having an affair with this guy. My wife became incredibly defensive and accused me of cheating and contracting pubic crabs. She denied everything and told me it was all in my head. She said she was tired of me over analyzing everything and always asking about her fidelity and men of that ethnicity. Yet, I've only asked her 2 times. She also asked me where was my proof of her affair.
I figured my case of the crabs is proof enough. And neither of us were infected through crab infested towels/linens or public toilet seats. That's far-fetched in my mind.
When discussing the pubic crabs, she said there's no way she could get the crabs because of her Brazilian waxing. This is of course not true. Those tiny crabs will easily grab hold of the hair stubble.
10 minutes later, my wife's demeanor was like as if nothing happened. I could swear she had a hint of a pleased look on her face (as if though she knew I had no proof and that she could go on living her cake-eater affair - where she can have her exciting/dangerous physical affair/sexual fantasy while having the security of a devoted husband.
I think my wife is a master of compartmentalization. She has to be. I know she is deathly afraid of how her reputation would be smeared if word of this disgusting affair ever got out.
At this point, I do not know what to do. My couselor wants to bring both of us in. My wife did agree to come in for counseling, but did say it would be a waste of time. I'm pretty sure she would never admit to the affair. But then again, I don't think she knows how much I am suffering on the inside.
Sometimes I feel like I don't even know my wife. She's almost like a Dr. Jeckle/Mr.Hyde. The one I married is sweet and caring. Other times (especially when tired), she's downright mean and hypercritical.
You folks are right. It's a painful painful emotional roller coaster of a ride. What makes me the saddest is that my kids may potentially suffer from my wife's problem (sexual addiction?). Just the other night at the dinner table, I see my kids smiling, happy and just being kids. I could not help tearing up thinking of what kind of hell they may have to undergo if we eventually divorce.
Well, I have gone on long enough. Thanks for letting me vent.
And yes, I plan on getting tested for STD's.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Sep 2013
Member # 29130
| Posted: 5:12 AM, September 9th (Monday)|
I am sorry, you find yourself here. There are a lot of red flags. What kind of proof do you need for you to take action? That is the only barometer you need.
This might be a good time to detach from your WW emotionally and get some perspective. See an attorney and know your rights.
Hang in there
Me: BW Him: WH
Married: 10 yrs
4 children: DDs 6&4; DSs 2& baby
2 Affairs - 2010 year long PA/EA, 2008 2 month online EA
I can only control myself, no one else. I do not have that kind of power.
Posts: 4448 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Back home again in Indiana
Member # 38378
| Posted: 9:38 AM, September 9th (Monday)|
I'm sorry, D. Saddened.
I think you're right to be suspicious and I agree that there are many red flags in your writing.
One of them is the response from your WW and her defensiveness. When Nearly Exh did that to me, it was a big red flag because it wasn't his usual demeanor and there often wasn't an underlying or outside argument. I suspect that he got so he couldn't handle keeping the secret of his double life and duplicity and it came to rise just under the surface of his personality, which prior to the A was pretty smooth. As the A went on and got more involved I did notice changes in his demeanor and mannerisms and that continues even during the D process. It was sad for me to watch, FWIW to share.
Regarding your children, that was a factor that kept me in limbo or purgatory for quite a long time. But some realizations have occurred to me over time and no one could tell me enough times these things...rather, I had to arrive at the conclusions on my own. I will share some, if it helps and try not to get long.
Our daughter was well aware of the arguing that he made and she was aware that it got worse as his affair went on. She would cry or slam her door when we tried to "talk" and she had reactions to the friction that went on in our house. She was also aware of the unhappiness that descended on us, but she didn't say so much with words, rather with behavior changes and major attitudes. It wasn't a good environment for her to live in, though to have her live without a father figure in our home I couldn't fathom.
He is gone now, for about 1.5 years and she still misses him, but neither of us miss the stress and arguing that he created. He would have a habit of turning small, solvable issues into huge ones and then would run out the door to OW when I tried to talk and this became a pattern as OW cajoled and pushed him out of our home and into hers.
I wrote all of that also as a preamble to suggest sort of hunkering down and being quiet about what you feel and discover, if you can. For the more I spoke to him and spoke of an affair, the more he withdrew or made verbal fighting and it was to push me away, to get me off his back, the counselors told me.
If you aren't 100% certain, it seems truly better to keep your knowledge to yourself until you have a plan and have certainty about her.
Also, I'm a child of divorce and saw my father be abandoned in the same fashion that I was. There wasn't cheating that was discovered but it was awful for us kids to grow up under their turmoil and toxic relationship that neither would try to work on. Each told the other "go fix yourself and come back", but neither would...one parent is narcissistic and the other totalitarian and couldn't have their own way every time.
My mother told me that she stayed "for years" for us children and it hurts a decade and a half later to remember her pain and struggle. And now I get to live knowing that I was part of what prolonged it. It's hell to have that knowledge and I wish she never said it, but she's got problems herself, TTTT (to tell the truth).
Your kids are young but probably aware that there are problems between you and WW and I would bet they worry, as well, for mine does and we did.
I will end my lengthy post and wish you peace in this process.
The only thing that stays the same, is change. -M. Etheridge
Posts: 1955 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Member # 33212
| Posted: 7:36 PM, September 9th (Monday)|
No it is not proof of an affair.
Does your wife carry a bag to work?
If yes do the following?
Drop any cheating conversations with her.
Drop the IC intervention meeting.
Go to a spyshop online and buy a pen voice activated recorder.
Drop it in her bag for a few days.
In a short time you will have your answer and proof.
If it will destroy you listening to your wife doing the OM have a friend listen for you.
If you get the evidence do not say a thing.
Go to her HR and file a complaint, the same day you have her served divorce papers at work.
I am not saying to divorce your wife, I am saying you need to lay the law down if in fact she is cheating.
ChoppingOnions did this and it worked for him.
Posts: 633 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Member # 27196
| Posted: 7:51 PM, September 9th (Monday)|
^^^^^^ditto^^^^^ everything Happyman said.
It's called 'shock and awe', and it cuts thru weeks, months or years of bullshit, lies, and TT.
me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk
Posts: 6760 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
Member # 24534
| Posted: 8:04 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
She told me, that if she were to have an affair, she would divorce me first
Yeah, my exH said the same thing and then proceeded to have an affair.
One thing I have learned is trust your gut. For weeks before I learned of the A, I had a feeling that something was off, and boy was I right.
Crabs, wow, that is enough for me to know that she is lying.
BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.
Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
Member # 21101
| Posted: 8:05 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
Proof, no sorry you don't have it.
What you do have is a gut instinct that is telling you the truth. So as others have suggested it's time to go into stealth mode, and get your proof.
This sucks big time. In the mean time while you are trying to get some proof, shop around for an attorney, and go see one, get an idea of how things will play out, and what your rights are. I'm not telling you this to D, but to give you answers to the what if's.
It is tough with young kids, and lets face it many people stay because of that, does that mean their kids grow up in a warm loving healthy home watching a normal respectful marriage, no.
Focus on taking care of you right now. Eating, sleeping, staying hydrated, if you are struggling with these basic things talke to your dr, and consider some pharmaceutical support during this time. Many of us find when we are sleep deprived, low on good vitamins, and protein that our emotions get wildly out of check, and brains don't function so well.
Go get yourself tested for STD's, this may be all the proof you need, given the crabs incident. However until you have something to shove under her nose, that is tangible proof of her infidelity this may not wake her up.
Kids: 14 & 16
Married for 21 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy
Posts: 6000 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Member # 40607
| Posted: 1:41 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
Thanks for the replies and advice.
I'm hoping that time does heal wounds. As I think about the whole fiasco, my emotions range from sadness, regret, and anger. Sadness for my kids. Regret for marrying someone who may be damaged beyond repair. And anger for the way my WW has disrespected me. I can't stand the fact she saves her sexual libido for the OP (leaving me frustrated). Ouch, this is wrong.
In the end, I am determined to have an honest spouse who loves, cherishes, and respects me. For the sake of my kids, I'd like that woman to be my WW. However, if she can't be that person, so be it and good riddance. Life's too short to be dicked around by anyone.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Sep 2013
Member # 30634
| Posted: 5:13 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
I am in stealth mode, too.
I agree completely with the other posters!
Get your proof. She obviously has no problem lying to you. She isn't going to stop lying until you have proof. Liars can always find a way to 'explain away' whatever you are concerned with at the moment.
I am trying to monitor his computer because I am concerned.
You can monitor cell phones, too, with a program.
Go stealth even though it is hard. It is actually easier than the knowing will be if it is bad.
A gift is not given if it has been demanded.
Failure to attempt is failure.
Posts: 383 | Registered: Jan 2011
Member # 18814
| Posted: 6:14 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
I'm so sorry for you. Please follow your gut. Don't let her manipulate you. Do what the others have said, go stealth mode and get evidence. Get shock value. Do it NOW. I've heard of some WS who would contact lawyers, etc. get everything lined up before they shock the BS and leave them penniless, no custody of kids, etc. Protect yourself and your kids. That is paramount. Being the man can sometimes be against you specially depends on what state you live in. Get proof and get that lawyer or private investigator.
There is nothing sad about only having kissed one woman. I've only kissed one man myself. There's nothing wrong with us. There's everything wrong with spouses who think they need to have variety after promising to be faithful.
Hugs your way.
Love is a choice.
True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.
Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.
Posts: 871 | Registered: Mar 2008
Member # 40507
| Posted: 6:36 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
On another forum i am resident cheating wife buster. I will post a complete set of instructions here in about 3 hours.
Here are the first 3.
1. NO MORE CONFRONTS!!!! PLay dumb husband
2. Tonight if possiblego to best buy. Buy two sony icdpx312 voice activated recorders. Do NOT buy others. They have timeout features which render them useless.
3. Go to walmart. Buy self stick heavy duty velcro. Its either in fabrics or near fasteners depending on the store.
The pen var is another great idea.
ALSO IFYOU HEAR THEM START TO GET BUSY. Stop stop stop listening and have a trusted friend listen for you and give you a heads up! Hearing your wife moan with another man inside her will do MASSIVE damage well beyond what you feel now. Ive done var work for four men on the other forum. You can not handle it!!!!
Edit at work and typing on a tablet stinks. Hence 3 hours or so. Maybe a bit more but ill be back to help you. Workplace affairs are tough to crack.
[This message edited by Warninglight at 6:45 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]
WIfe email EA. DDay 03-0-2013 758A OM was a half literate hillbilly ex.
Posts: 21 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: E US
Member # 40507
| Posted: 10:31 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
Here you go. I am really really good at this part.
Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar?
If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.
Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.
So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.
Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.
Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.
Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Velcro-Heavy-Duty-Hook-and-Loop-Fastener/25553585
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.
Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat.
ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.
Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.
Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!
The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.
Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"
Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/02/25-apps-to-help-you-cheat-on-your-girlfriend/
Here is another part. Pay attention to when she comes home. Does she immediately either take a shower, change panties or liners? MAJOR red flag. On her way out the door, is there a spare pair of panties in her purse? Perhaps in her car?
If its cummy panties. Amazon sells checkmate semen detection kits.
Check cell phone records for strange texts/calls. What phone does she use?
[This message edited by Warninglight at 10:33 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]
WIfe email EA. DDay 03-0-2013 758A OM was a half literate hillbilly ex.
Posts: 21 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: E US
Member # 36781
| Posted: 11:02 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)|
Wow. Stealth mode. I wish I knew about this back then. I'm feeling better now because I left him. Not what I wanted. I wanted to be married to him for the rest of my. Life..not. Gonna. Happen.
I wonder if I should get some evidence since I found out the first evidence will not work because we were reconciling..so that negates the evidence since I already forgave.
Somehow all of this does not make sense.
D Day: July 27, 2012
Day of first suspicion: 6/7/11
DD#2: November 2, 2012
I thought we were reconciling...I left him a year after DDay
We are divorcing
Posts: 94 | Registered: Sep 2012
|Topic Posts: 13|| |