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Divorce/Separation
User Topic: Fuming - need help with response to FT
lost4now
Member
Member # 21634
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

STBXH and I are processing thru our divorce and we are NOT getting along real well. We do not speak and when we do it becomes very heated. He continues to treat me like crap and he is a bully. He has introduced his slutface girlfriend to my one daughter (the OW he has been with for 5 years behind my back). He apparently is spending Thanksgiving with OW and her family and needs to switch weekends with me with our youngest child. This is the email I get this morning.

From FT: I am just letting you know in advance so you have plenty of notice that in November; I will be switching the weekend of November 23 & 24th to the 16th & 17th because I will be out of town Nov 23 rd thru the 30th.

He isn't even ASKING me to switch.....he is telling me!!!! I am so mad right now I can't even respond. How should I best handle this?? I can switch with him but I do think he should ask me and I do not want this to continue going forward.


BS - ME 43
WH 44
Married 20 years
DDay #1 12/28/07
DDay #2 9/18/08
DDay #3 12/28/08
Dday #4 11/18/10 (same OW)
Dday #5 8/22/12 (same OW)
2 beautiful daughters
"Love grows where it is nurtured and dies where it is not!"

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: NJ
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

"No thank you; I'd prefer we stick to the agreement. Then, crickets.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20035 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I may be in the minority on this one but I would first determine what the reprecussions would be on this one. Is it worth it to tell him no? Because a time may come when you have to switch weekends and he will not accomodate.

so you have two options:

1. Tell him you can switch and remind him how the agreement works, that giving notice does not automatically mean he gets what he wants.

2. Tell him no you can't switch. As Sad in AZ has suggested.

[This message edited by ninebark at 9:16 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
Pass
Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I regularly receive commands like this from The Princess. If I don't mind making the change, I usually respond with something like, "I would be happy to spend that time with my children. Thank you for ASKING so nicely."

I usually really am happy to have the extra time with the boys (she never asks for extra time, or even to switch time, she just wants to have more time away from them), and I know that if she has to spend time with them, she will make them sorry by being miserable with them. That's why I always say yes, if I can; I consider it to be doing a favour for the kids - not her.

But I always like to remind her that she is asking me for help. I'm sure she barely notices that, though.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1840 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
newlysingle
Member
Member # 38735
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I agree that I'm not so sure I'd say no right away in case you ever need to switch. Maybe just tell him that you're not sure if that will work for you. You need to check your calendar and get back to him.


BW - Me (37)
XWH - (37) The Gnat
OW - Some dumb whore he picked up in another state and moved here here. Known as Hello Kitty.
M for 8 years, together for 10
1 DD (5), 1 DS (1 year)
Dday 3/13
Divorced 9/20/13

Posts: 879 | Registered: Mar 2013
hopeandchange
Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Relax, relax. You now get to spend Thanksgiving weekend with your daughter

Accept all gifts no matter how they are packaged

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 405 | Registered: Sep 2011
sparkysable
Member
Member # 3703
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I say he doesn't get to switch, he forefits. That's his choice. You don't need to bend over backwards for his demands.

It would be one thing if he was like "hey would you mind if we switch weekends". Don't set a precedent by giving in to his demands like this.


D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010

Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.


Posts: 3317 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

You could say that you have already made plans with your daughter for the 16th and 17th, but you'd be happy to help him out by taking her for Thanksgiving.

He forfeits, and he doesn't get to dictate anything.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7569 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
lost4now
Member
Member # 21634
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

This was my response to him...

To FT: I checked my calendar and I am able to switch with you. However, as a reminder, "Giving Notice" is not how the agreement is suppose to work, this does not automatically mean you get what you want. ASKING (not "giving notice") to switch is using common courtesy and we should extend that to each other going forward.

His response was something to the effect that when I took our girls on a vacation this summer (we left on his weekend with my daughter) he was not ASKED, I informed him of the vacation. Really?? I suppose I should have asked since he would be missing his weekend with her but I was taking her on a vacation. Not really the same but.....

I now feel like he won this argument and it is KILLING me! God I hate this!!! I really dislike the feeling of anger and hate! It makes me feel ugly but I just can't stop myself.


BS - ME 43
WH 44
Married 20 years
DDay #1 12/28/07
DDay #2 9/18/08
DDay #3 12/28/08
Dday #4 11/18/10 (same OW)
Dday #5 8/22/12 (same OW)
2 beautiful daughters
"Love grows where it is nurtured and dies where it is not!"

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: NJ
StillLivin
Member
Member # 40229
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Lost,
When it comes to the children, as hard as it is, put all animosity aside. Do what is absolutely best for your daughter. If he is abusive, then the least amount of time the better. However, if she genuinely enjoys time and needs her father in her life, be civil and cooperative when it doesn't interfere with your schedule. I.e. if you had already made plans and deposited money, then no deal, but if you had no other plans, let her go with him without animosity or pissiness....even if he so well deserves it.
Crickets for everything else.
He does this on purpose to show you he can still get the upper hand with you. And, he did.
I truly understand how you feel. But he will "win" time and time again if you let him. The least you say, the better. If you don't open mouth, you cannot insert foot. Let him do that. Plus, your newfound happiness and pleasantness will drive him crazy. Kill him with crickets and civility. You don't have to be kind. Be reasonable, but firm when he crosses the line. Don't SAY much, action speaks louder than words.
Read the 180 every single day...I know I have to too!
You can do this, you are better than him. Good luck, and God Bless.


I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2214 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ
anewday78
Member
Member # 39357
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

If you don't already have plans, don't lie and say you do. Tell him: "Thank you for the heads-up. Switching those weekends is fine with me. Notice that I said 'that's fine with me?' For future reference, pose it as a question."

Posts: 350 | Registered: May 2013
lost4now
Member
Member # 21634
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Additionally......when I sent him the email about taking our daughter on vacation he did not reply. Nothing! He did not ask for additional time with her and he voiced no problem with me taking her away on his weekend with her.

He is taking time in November to go away for a week with his girlfriend. He does not spend time alone with his daughter when he has her. He always has the girlfriend with him or goes out of state to visit the girlfriend and takes our daughter with him. He has no real interest in being a good dad. He never did.

Also, we have two daughters, the 18 year old wants nothing to do with him. She has not yet spent any time with him since he left our home in January.


BS - ME 43
WH 44
Married 20 years
DDay #1 12/28/07
DDay #2 9/18/08
DDay #3 12/28/08
Dday #4 11/18/10 (same OW)
Dday #5 8/22/12 (same OW)
2 beautiful daughters
"Love grows where it is nurtured and dies where it is not!"

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: NJ
Pass
Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Hey Lost,

I constantly feel that I lose arguments with The Princess, so I understand how much that sucks. I try to remind myself that I'm just not as good at it because I'm not an arsehole.

If you were curt with him about your vacation, it's probably because of some idiot thing he had recently done.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1840 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
suckstobeme
Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

It gets better. The need to tell him off and make him feel like a dick goes away as you get more used to this.

I'm in the camp of trying to be reasonable when it comes to the kids. I don't accomodate everything because, unlike your stbxh, mine has given me less than 24 hours notice for certain times that he wants to switch or cancel. In those instances, I arrange for the babysitter and he gets to pay.

However, in most cases, and with the right amount of notice, I accomodate. It not only allows me to spend more time with my kids, but it does help to bank some of the "you owe me" responses I can give if I need him to switch or step in.

It sucks more for you on this one because he's going away with the gf and that's why he needs the switch. That does suck and it hurts, especially the first few times. I used to fight it too in my own mind and really piss myself off when I realized that I helped facilitate his romp fest with that pig. I used to think, "why should he get to go on a vacation with someone while I get to wipe noses and watch kids' shows?"

I would calm myself down by remembering that, no matter what, it's more time with my kids and, at this point, I could give a fuck where those two numb nuts go or what they do. By giving up time with his kids, it's one more step closer that they get to me. It's one more time that they see where his priorities lie and which one of us really puts them first.

This is going to happen on occasion as you move through this bullshit and continue to have to parent with him. NC is hard in these matters, but I find a simple "yep" or "sorry, already have plans" will do. No more, no less.

Oh, and no one says you have to provide a quick answer.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2770 | Registered: Jan 2011
HopeImOverIt
Member
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I believe that sometimes it is good strategy to agree with the other person when you can acknowledge they have a point.

His response was something to the effect that when I took our girls on a vacation this summer (we left on his weekend with my daughter) he was not ASKED, I informed him of the vacation. Really?? I suppose I should have asked since he would be missing his weekend with her but I was taking her on a vacation. Not really the same but.....

Would it make sense to be the "bigger person" and reply to him, "You're absolutely right, I should have asked you about that vacation rather than simply assuming it would have been ok. I will try to be more courteous from now on."

It may have seemed at the time that he wasn't bothered by you not asking if you could take his weekend for your vacation. But apparently he was nursing that grudge until he found the opportunity to play tit for tat with you over Thanksgiving. Not a very mature way to behave, but you can't control what he does.

Can you convince yourself that it's not about winning arguments, it's about what is best for your daughter? It's best for her to have two parents who cooperate on custody, right?


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 258 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Lost,

This is what Perv does. What I'm being taught the hard way is that I have to be very, very careful in any reply. And that the more words I use, the more I can chance tripping myself up, because he looks for things to "catch" me on...double standards or things he can take to his lawyer to use against me. Then he holds anything even remotely negative against me for the next thousand interactions we have. It's a horrible game, almost a play on words in some ways because of the planning it takes to communicate in such a setting.

Anyway...my advice would be to use as few words as possible because then there's less to be held against you and dissected and any, ANY attitude you can keep out of it, do. Even if you feel the attitude, don't hit "send" until your feelings are gone so that you can reread the words and clear out the attitude-your Ex sounds like Perv (NPD) and one of the tendencies he has is to seek out negativity and pounce on it like a cat and mouse chase.

And as the others say, it could always come up in future that you may have to switch too-I've had to swallow pride to ask him to switch when I couldn't find or pay a babysitter, for instance-I work very hard not to ever switch and don't plan things on my turns, but every so often life happens and it comes up, like divorce class or something.

The other thing is that Perv catalogs somewhere each and every single negative thing anyone ever said about him, and spews it out later... but he kept that inside while he was around and that's something that I would fear your ex doing and holding against you even later, to drag out when he needs ammo-oh, not even in court or lawyerland, but if you need something like switching or to ask him anything.

Perv is very narcissistic and there are two things to remember: Never, ever will he ask-his nature does not allow it. Rather, he expects. "The world is your oyster" is rather literal to him.

And number two...never, ever will there be an apology. Once those ideas became familiar, I found myself less wrapped up in the tone of his messages and more wanting to get the communication over.

And the comments about making it about the kids and not us really does help...but is tough as nails to do. I try to remember that showing feelings of any kind to Perv is showing weakness and that helps put myself away.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 3:34 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2204 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Accept all gifts no matter how they are packaged

^^THIS.

Saying you've checked your calendar and you are able to make the switch - that way you are standing firm without taking the bait. He can't make you swap so if it didn't suit you you say no.

He is being a massive fuckstick but you've come to expect that, no? This should not be a surprise.

A few months ago I had an exchange like this:
Him: "Where are DD's glasses? We are heading out and I need them".
Me: "Front pocket of her school bag"
Him: "Don't you think I checked in there you fool! They are not yours, return them to me!!".
Me: "In the small front pocket where her lip balm is. Look again."
Him: "Thank you".

This exchange was the first time I realised my give-a-fuck was broken. I didn't feel the need to tell him off nor was I angry/hurt/outraged at how he was speaking to me. As strange as this sounds my main thought at the time was "How inappropriate".

He takes whatever opportunity he can to try and engage me, stick it to me, berate me etc. - it hasn't enraged me. It is a nice feeling.

I've made some mistakes about things where he would feel he 'won' in those instances but in all honesty I don't really give-a-fuck. I don't need to win anything with him - I've won by being free of him.

This stuff used to yank my chain, big time. Reacting to it gave him power and he seemed to ramp up the yanking. I started with just NOT responding even though I was dying too. I emailed my friends funny and/or furious responses - I posted here. I made a conscious decision to refuse to engage in this idiot's dance any longer.

Fake it till you make it. One day you will realise you're not faking it. But you need to get off his crazy train first.

When we engage we feel strong for a nanosecond but in truth it shows our weakness. NOT engaging? Now that's tough and shows our strength.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5535 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
gypsybird87
Member
Member # 39193
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

My XWH and I don't have kids together, but I did spend 8 yrs in the stepmom role negotiating this kind of crap from his prior XW. We frequently got commands like that, and what generally worked best was a generic "I'm not sure that will work for me... Let me check my schedule and get back to you."

This way, if there was truly a scheduling conflict, we could have a little time to think about how best to respond to her. And even if we knew there was no conflict, we could still make her wait and then respond with something like "Okay, I was able to work my schedule to accommodate that change."

Either way this took back control of the situation and all the power out of her "command".

I see you've already responded to him on this issue but maybe this will help you in the future. ??

Best of luck... I don't envy you the situation you're in. Hang in there!


Me: Enjoying life
Him: Someone else's problem

Rock bottom became the solid foundation on which I rebuilt my life. ~ JK Rowling


Posts: 750 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Oregon
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

My favorite reply to this kind of thing is "Not a problem."

Really. He does not get to dictate how I feel. He does not get to wind me up today or in November.

You can't lecture him into a better parent, or find the magic insult that opens his eyes. Trust me on this...

His "lording demands" expect your leap to anger- and you gave it to him. The exchange feeds his ego.

Try to find a way to give him nothing. And, the bonus is you get the holiday with your child!! Now, to relax and enjoy it.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5777 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
lost4now
Member
Member # 21634
Default  Posted: 5:09 AM, September 11th (Wednesday)

I did end up sending him a response saying that he made his point and he was right. I did not exactly ask to take our daughter on vacation. Rather, informed him of our trip. I assumed he would be okay with me taking her on vacation.

I think the two incidents, while similar are a bit different since my taking our daughter on vacation was for HER and his request to swap weekends is for HIM. I do believe he should have asked since I am doing him a favor while I was GIVING our daughter a summer vacation.

I know.....he may have actually wanted to spend his weekend with her or had plans for her but really I doubt it since he never responded AT ALL to my vacation email. I wasn't even sure he received it. He did not ask for a different weekend to make up for the time lost. He saved that email and planned to use it against me at some point.

I ALWAYS want my kids and will always take them whenever he decides he can't take them and I should not have let his "NOTICE" get under my skin like it did. My answer was going to be yes but I felt the need to set him straight and it bit me in the ass. Next time.....a simple answer and then crickets.


BS - ME 43
WH 44
Married 20 years
DDay #1 12/28/07
DDay #2 9/18/08
DDay #3 12/28/08
Dday #4 11/18/10 (same OW)
Dday #5 8/22/12 (same OW)
2 beautiful daughters
"Love grows where it is nurtured and dies where it is not!"

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: NJ
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

((lost4now))

Do you think you would have reacted that way if he was taking her on vacation over your weekend? I suspect you would. I would have too before my give a fuck was broken.

I would have been hurt/angry that he was ditching his kids for OW. I would have been hurt/angry that he was spending Thanksgiving with OW. I would have been hurt/angry at the way he was treating me. So many things to feel hurt/angry about. I get it. It hurts until you detach sufficiently.

He yanked your chain and you reacted - we all do until we decide not to anymore. I don't know that the urge goes away of its own volition - its something you have to work at and it takes practice.

Next time.....a simple answer and then crickets.

^^Absolutely. Remembering what it feels like right now will help you stick to this.

NC = No New Hurts.

You've so got this.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5535 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

I think the two incidents, while similar are a bit different since my taking our daughter on vacation was for HER and his request to swap weekends is for HIM. I do believe he should have asked since I am doing him a favor while I was GIVING our daughter a summer vacation.

Even your choice of words -- "I felt the need to set him straight and it bit me in the ass." -- indicates your resentment.

C'mon, you also "gave" yourself a vacation. Why not post a lovely vacation pic here, tell us about one or two highlights from your vacation ... then call it a day.

Peace! I hope you enjoy spending time with your family on Thanksgiving

[This message edited by ladies_first at 5:55 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Bluebird26
Member
Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, September 12th (Thursday)

I would pick your battles. Is it really worth the angst to be right on this occasion.


"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1324 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, September 12th (Thursday)


I think the two incidents, while similar are a bit different since my taking our daughter on vacation was for HER and his request to swap weekends is for HIM. I do believe he should have asked since I am doing him a favor while I was GIVING our daughter a summer vacation.

I see it as you wanting accomodation from him, so YOU could take your daughter on vacation.. When we want something outside the agreement established it is always good form to extend our request courteously.

Our behavior reflects on us.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
lost4now
Member
Member # 21634
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, September 12th (Thursday)

Resentment....yep! "giving" myself a vacation (because I have earned it).....absolutely! Wanting accomodation from him.....yep!!

You are all right! It kills me. I am hurt and angry. I have had to swallow so freakin much it is literally eating me alive! I admit it....I am human! I have alot to learn in this divorce process obviously. And I am not nearly as far along in the healing process as I thought I was.

Can I admit something?! I don't love him anymore but I really want him to be miserable!!! I dislike feeling like this. It's ugly and unattractive. When the hell will it ever end??!


BS - ME 43
WH 44
Married 20 years
DDay #1 12/28/07
DDay #2 9/18/08
DDay #3 12/28/08
Dday #4 11/18/10 (same OW)
Dday #5 8/22/12 (same OW)
2 beautiful daughters
"Love grows where it is nurtured and dies where it is not!"

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: NJ
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, September 12th (Thursday)

It is a difficult process learning to focus on you and focus on enjoyment in your life.

Detachment, for me, includes letting go of resentment. There is a cliche' that rankles me, "the best revenge is living well". It is true, and I do have glimmers of it, fromtime to time. Those glimmers come when I'm immersed in doing things that I enjoy, or things that require my rapt attention, etc.

Give yourself a break. All that you are feeling is normal. It is part of the process.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Topic Posts: 26