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Reconciliation
User Topic: Im as bad as him!!!
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 4:24 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

10 mths passed DD and we are doing OK. Triggers are getting less and less, but there are times when im alone that my mind will drift back to 10 mths ago and how I could change the way I reacted to the A.

I am embarrassed about the way I reacted, and I KNOW that if the shoe was on the other foot, that no matter what I had done, if my husband had reacted the way that I did ... I would have left him there and then!!!

1) Upon finding out about the woman he was talking to online, I flipped and pushed him, stormed out of the house (which I really regret now as he had deleated everything off the pc by the time I got back)
Part of me wishes I could change that, and that I could read his conversations with her, part of me is glad they are gone!!!I don't know how I would have dealt with their conversations of sordid sex details, but yet part of me wants to know (does that make sense)

2) Upon looking thru his made up email account (he had deleted all mail but forgot to delete from the 'sent folder' this Is how I come to find out he was having cybersex with this woman (among others) I was drinking a cup of hot tea at the time, and I threw it at him! It flew passed him lucky enough.

I wish I could change that

3) I then picked up his lap top and threw it at him, he stood there and didn't move, I got up from my chair and I stamped on it, lifted it up again and threw is on the floor till it was smashed into pieces.
He stood and watched me, then I did the thing I cant believe I was capable of .... I hit him! I slapped his face several times and punched his chest. I pushed him till he fell into the wall, where there I kicked him. He stood and took it from me, not raising his hands once, altho I did challenge him to ... I wanted him to hit me back!! (I guess I expected him to hit me back, but he isn't that type of person, he would NEVER hit a woman)

I wish to god every day I could change that

4) Not being able to sleep later that evening, I came downstairs and lifted every photo frame we have on the wall and on the dressers, and threw them all into one pile and got a hammer and smashed them all into pieces, I took the photos out and ripped them to pieces, and cut them up with a scissors! He came down to check on me, not even trying to stop me while I screamed at him 'look what you have done, there is no point keeping these now because none of our marriage is true' etc etc .... he sobbed his heart out and watched me till I broke down in tears myself. I curled up into a ball and slept!

He cleaned up all the glass by following morning, and begged me to forgive him ...

10 months on im still here, im still in love with him, I still think anout what he has done, but day by day we are getting better. but io am haunted by how I reacted. if he had ever done that to me, no matter what I had done, I would have walked away! My first marriage my husband was a wife beater once in alcohol, and I stooped as low as him .... im so ashamed of myself, so so ashamed


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 2012
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
devasted30
Member
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

Heartbroken2013 - do not be so hard on yourself. I understand your pain and your rage. I have it too. My WS has TT'd me since he returned 8 1/2 months ago. Last night I bite him - yep, bite him. Not proud of it either, but sometimes I have no idea how to get rid of all this rage. I have tranquilizers and I try not to take too many as they are addictive, but I took one last night - and slept for the first time in weeks.
I have thrown things, and hit my WS as well. Then we get disgusted with ourselves and feel terrible shame. Funny isn't it, we didn't do anything wrong, but we are the ones who are ashamed.

[This message edited by devasted30 at 6:16 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]


Posts: 1162 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

Heartbroken honey you reacted out of trauma. You did not plan to slap hit kick throw things etc....
I have done worse. I dont believe I am a bad person. I dont believe you are a bad person.
You have to let go of what you did.

Work on the future.
No you are not as bad as him.
Again you did not daily plan on doing what you did.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

Have you dealt with your reactions in therapy to ensure healthier options next time? Just because we are women gives is no right to lay hand upon our partners. I know you are remorseful and you don't seem to be justifying. But I think you are right, you actions were pretty horrible. I don't say that to be mean but to validate your own concerns.

We, all of us, BS or WW, have an obligation to be safe partners.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
beebee
New Member
Member # 40632
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

You are NOT as bad. Your reaction was not the same as a betrayal. You were traumatized, and everything you thought you knew about your husband and your marriage, your assumptions about your life, and your sense of security, all those things were shattered. Your world was turned upside down.

You wish you could have controlled yourself, and it's fine to think that way when you look back on it NOW and you haven't just found out the awful truth; but you need to work on forgiving yourself for having a perfectly understandable reaction to finding out your husband was cheating.

In fact, your reaction was pretty "classic." Around the world, it's known that hell hath no fury, right? I threw stuff out the night I found out, though I didn't smash and break any framed pictures of us - but the thought DID occur to me! And I'm sure many BS's have smashed the pictures, and many more have considered doing it - you don't have the market cornered on that.

It's also possible that your reaction HELPED your WS to feel a little better - that immediate "punishment" of sorts, which he deserved, may have helped him to feel that a tiny fraction of the burden he felt was lifted because you acted so quickly to deliver "swift justice." That sentence - watching you destroy things - had to really hurt.

I doubt you hurt him too much by slapping him, but hitting and kicking may have gone too far. But you didn't say that he was injured, so I'm assuming you didn't really intend to hurt him so much as "get your anger out." I hope you were at least in control enough to keep yourself from doing real physical harm to him.

And yes, you may have left him if the shoe was on the other foot - but you also might have come back, when things settled down.

So please don't be so hard on yourself. Be more gentle with yourself for what would be considered the world over a "normal" reaction, even if you don't like it or consider it your finest hour. It was the worst of times in your life, and so you weren't your best self - it's OK not to have been polite! Work on forgiving yourself for feeling shattered and vulnerable and traumatized and acting on it. If you had a friend who acted that way, wouldn't you hug her and tell her the same thing? Be as kind to yourself as you would to her.

[This message edited by beebee at 9:52 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

HB - I absolutely agree with Heartache. Therapists that deal in trauma will tell you that the reaction to this trauma is not something to beat yourself up about. If it occurred before the trauma or continued after the initial phase, then some serious help is required and it is a much more serious issue. Are you seeing an IC that deals with trauma? They can be greatly beneficial in helping you process this. I would assume that part of the reason you have beaten yourself up about this is your past experience with DM. That was another trauma, hope you are in IC.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
cruelty
New Member
Member # 35951
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

IMO, I feel a BS should be given a pass for lashing out initially physically, if it is something cometely out if character. That said, the law doesn't see it that way and its probably best to have a zero tolerance policy towards it. It does no one any good, and may in fact leave you vulnerable to charges.
Personally, I think the WS that presses charges for being slapped, or shoved by a BS when they first find out is a punk.mind you, I'm talking about relationships that are completely non violent otherwise. I think it's an understandable reaction.
But again this is my opinion I'm not the law.


"The trick to forgetting the big picture is to look at everything close up" -Chuck Palahniuk

Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2012
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

IMO, I feel a BS should be given a pass for lashing out initially physically, if it is something cometely out if character.

Nobody should ever get a free pass on anything. We should always be accountable for our actions.

-----------------

3) I then picked up her lap top and threw it at her, she stood there and didn't move, I got up from my chair and I stamped on it, lifted it up again and threw is on the floor till it was smashed into pieces.
She stood and watched me, then I did the thing I cant believe I was capable of .... I hit her! I slapped her face several times and punched her chest. I pushed her till she fell into the wall, where there I kicked her. She stood and took it from me, not raising her hands once, altho I did challenge her to ... I wanted her to hit me back!! (I guess I expected her to hit me back, but she isn't that type of person, she would NEVER hit anyone)

I wish to god every day I could change that

4) Not being able to sleep later that evening, I came downstairs and lifted every photo frame we have on the wall and on the dressers, and threw them all into one pile and got a hammer and smashed them all into pieces, I took the photos out and ripped them to pieces, and cut them up with a scissors! She came down to check on me, not even trying to stop me while I screamed at her 'look what you have done, there is no point keeping these now because none of our marriage is true' etc etc .... she sobbed her heart out and watched me till I broke down in tears myself. I curled up into a ball and slept!


---------------------

Does changing the gender around merit the "there there" responses?

Heartbroken, it's good that you recognize how awful that shit is. I think you should hold onto your surmise that your behavior was not okay. Shame is not necessarily a bad thing - it helps show us what we have done wrong and what we need to correct in our lives. Being consumed by that shame in a toxic way is unhealthy, but recognizing the shameful things we have done and trying to correct ourselves as you have done here is the best possible direction. Good luck and I hope you and your husband continue to do OK.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7444 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
cruelty
New Member
Member # 35951
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

I knew that would be the reaction, that's why I was careful to say it was my opinion. And no again IMO, it doesn't matter if the genders are reversed.


"The trick to forgetting the big picture is to look at everything close up" -Chuck Palahniuk

Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2012
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

I understand that's your opinion and assumed that was the case. I disagree with your opinion and present my own.

You feel that if a man threw his wifes laptop at her and threw her to the floor, kicked her while she was down there and shouted at her to get up and hit him should also get a pass? I cannot say your opinion is wrong as it is your opinion but I would call the cops, myself.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7444 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
beebee
New Member
Member # 40632
Question  Posted: 1:55 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

I guess I'm old fashioned, but I do think the genders make a difference (assuming the woman is not a lot bigger and stronger, and that she has no formal training in martial arts or something that makes her arms and legs "lethal weapons").

Women used to slap men when they got "fresh" and nobody called the police - it was "expected" back in the day, and it certainly wasn't considered "abuse."

Similarly, if a woman slapped her husband when she found out about an affair, it used be considered a pretty "normal" reaction - again, not at all "abuse." If he had glasses on, a slap might cause cuts on his face, and that would change the situation.

But again, I guess I'm showing my age here ... there was a time when a woman slapping a man wasn't a big deal if the guy "had it coming to him," as we used to say. NOBODY would think of calling the police on her. HE was the jerk. He had done HER wrong.

It's a whole different thing when a man applies his greater body strength to slapping a woman. He could do some real damage, where she is much less likely to be able to.

So let's talk about pushing and hitting, and even kicking; the expression "throw like a girl" comes into play. If she wasn't a pitcher or an athlete of some kind, her punches and kicks most likely felt more like what an annoying little brother can do compared to what a husband's blows would do if the roles were reversed.

I understand Heartbroken2013's wishing she hadn't done those things. But I also understand how she could do those things under those terrible traumatic circumstances. The fear that a woman feels when a man starts throwing things and throwing punches is NOT the same as the fear that a man feels when the roles are reversed - the man KNOWS he can overpower her if he wants to.

But her husband wisely let her get the rage out of her system - as I said in my earlier post, perhaps he WANTED some punishment, and didn't try to stop her from smashing pictures or from going off on him because he KNEW he "had it coming."

And as cruelty said, any newly found out WS who'd press charges on a woman in THAT situation is the lowest kind of self-serving, cheating punk.


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
Dreamland
Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Not you are not as Bad as him what so ever..
I agree with beebee. It's different for genders. I got very physical with my WH after I found out had a PA with unprotected sex. When I first found out about the A he swore no sex. I can tell you that it broke me and literally the flood gates broke. I went into total rage breaking china chairs and everything I could get my hands on. And then I started hitting him slapping punching whatever I could do. But he held me back when i wouldnt stop.. He did slap me a couple of times to shock..Well Men are much stronger I looked like i was in a car accident. My arms and neck and face completely black and blue. I do bruise easily but I had to call in sick for 3 days. You can even compare if he had done what I did to him I would have looked like death. He on the other hand had a busted lip because I happened to land one good punch.
Not proud of either of our behaviours. I did provoke him to hit me back. That was 15 months ago. And we rarely fight I did throw some fruit and veggies at him after some TT but again I was in shock. Then I asked the Doc for something as my anxiety was sky rocketing. It helped a last year. Now I just internalize my anger and I go running. He knows when I am really pissed because I double my distance. I can telling you exercise helps me especially when I get angry. I know it's time to hit the pavement.
Don't be hard on yourself. If he wouldn't have cheated you would want to beat the shit out of him.


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 3:02 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Let's stop with the generalizations people. Hitting another is wrong whether male or female

Now, posting as a member who's wife has a Black Belt and actively teacher martial arts, I can tell you who will come out on top if we were to get into a physical altercation. Physical size and strength have nothing to do with it.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37160 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Amber13
Member
Member # 40505
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Yes hitting is bad.
However look at the positives, look how your husband reacted. He must love you very much.

Posts: 63 | Registered: Aug 2013
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

But again, I guess I'm showing my age here ... there was a time when a woman slapping a man wasn't a big deal if the guy "had it coming to him," as we used to say. NOBODY would think of calling the police on her. HE was the jerk. He had done HER wrong.

Was this the same era of Boys Will be Boys when it came to a married man fucking a woman who wasn't his wife?

I understand the simple matter of weight ratios as spoken in a thick accent. I also understand justifications for the most minor of violations. If it's just a kiss what's the problem? We only talked about my dick once, it's not like I sent a pic. So on.

It's not like throwing shit at a guy is unlikely to cause a concussion if you hit him in the head because he has superior upper body strength. I mean me, I have ninja reflexes and I can wire fu like a motherfucker but the average guy who doesn't have a 20 in his Con stat like I do would probably fall down and bleed if he caught a 6 lb laptop to the temple just right.

Violence is something that should be unacceptable regardless of gender or circumstance. Well maybe not circumstance. Like when my wife wants me to slap her ass during sex. Or at the gym. Not slap her ass during sex at the gym, but that sort of consenting violence in a controlled atmosphere kind of thing.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7444 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Dreamland
Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

@ wifehad5.. You are right violence in general is bad..breathing trust has consequences..including your wife possibility beating you up..

But really women even your wife and put her against a man with rage she will lose..

[This message edited by Dreamland at 4:18 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

If you really feel badly about doing this, apologize to him. I did.

I hit my FWH once. Actually, I tore his shirt off and then beat upon his chest, while sobbing wildly. He took it. About 2 days later, I apologized to him and told him that I had no right to hit him and that it wouldn''t happen again. He told me that it was OK, I was in pain, and he had it coming. This was before I knew about his ONS. I came close to hitting him after DDay several times, but was able to deflect that urge and destroy something else.

There are few circumstances where people have the right to hit other people. I can well understand the urge the inside of my head can be a rather scary place when I''m losing it, however except for protecting yourself or another, hitting another person is not right.

So, apologize for the act, but not the feelings leading up to it.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4802 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Herkemeyer
Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

t/j. So all it takes is an accusation from a WW and he goes to jail. But it's a perfectly normal reaction for a BW to abuse her husband. Come on Beebee, really? Maybe we should recommend that WH carry a VAR with them so when she breaks her finger hitting him, she doesn't call the cops, out of rage, and send him to jail for spousal abuse. Your logic is flawed, ma'am. Striking another person is never okay. The thought of hitting my WW never entered my mind. end t/j

eta: typos

[This message edited by Herkemeyer at 4:44 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
ShockedErica11
Member
Member # 37550
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, September 14th (Saturday)


@ wifehad5.. You are right violence in general is bad..breathing trust has consequences..including your wife possibility beating you up..
But really women even your wife and put her against a man with rage she will lose..

T/j
You don't know much about martial arts, I can tell. Coming from the experience of having a brown belt in Akido and Jiu Jitsu, tae kwon and a mix of kickboxing thrown in, my sensei made sure to pit me against this awesome guy named Derek when I was training at 16, and Derek was 6'4" and round about 300+ lbs I reckon. Yeah, you learn that anyone, no matter their size, can go down. I'm sure that wifehad5 is very well aware of his wife's capabilities.
/t/j

To return on topic, there are numerous things physically towards my WH that I wish I could do over, but only because it takes me to my FOO and how my father used to physically abuse me and my sibs. I swore to myself I would never do that to someone, and I did and deeply shames me because I've never lost my cool that way. I knew to walk away from an argument once it gets too heated.

The first time was the November DDay, when I ht him on his chest like a crazy woman. I can barely remember that night. The final, February DDay was the most scariest because I'd found out about his TTing and that anger? That one was a strange mixture of methodical and rage. I felt like how my father must've felt: you're angry as hell, but there's a clinical detachment of knowing just how and where to hit someone that scares the hell out of me. I was trained in how to hit someone and where and what would do the most damage, and that cold detachment? Holy shit. Scary as hell.

I haven't hit him after, and I'm in IC but I know where this came from which is horrible because honestly, I've AVOIDED fighting with people except in my sensei's dojo or sparring sessions with my father ( funny, he taught us to defend ourselves, but he was the biggest threat) or when I defended my sibs from other kids when we were children. There was always a peaceful alternative, but in this instance, all of that went right out of the window and I've been in bad situations before where emotions are high and a fight could break out, but I've always kept my wits about me and avoided it.

That pisses me off; a non-violent person that weeps when a dolphin species goes extinct and this situation turns me into a maniac.


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

@ wifehad5.. You are right violence in general is bad..breathing trust has consequences..including your wife possibility beating you up..

So using this logic, it would be understandable if I'd taken my rage out on my wife on our first D-day as opposed to the poor laundry basket that gave it's life that night? That would just be a consequence of she betraying me? (Still posting as a member)


But really women even your wife and put her against a man with rage she will lose..

If he had equal training, sure. I know some 90 lb 14 year old girls that I've seen in action, and I'm downright scared of them in that mode. Anyone in a rage has the potential to do damage.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37160 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
beebee
New Member
Member # 40632
What?  Posted: 6:53 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Interesting discussion.

StillGoing, just because I mentioned how a slap on the face by a woman was not considered abuse in days gone by doesn't mean I agree with all of the thinking of those days, such as condoning that old "boys will be boys" view of cheating on your wife. As I'm a betrayed spouse, you didn't really think I'd be OK with that line of thinking, did you? I think it's OK to pick and choose what works from the past - some of it is worth discarding, but some old ways aren't so bad.

wifehad5, I respectfully disagree with you. I don't think women slapping men who have groped them or who have just been revealed to be cheaters are "wrong." I wouldn't want to encourage it, but I really don't think it's out of line. Pushing and punching and more - OK, I agree with you there, but I think Heartbroken2013 was seeking support here, so I don't think it helps to post strong statements about moral absolutes that might make her healing process even harder.

Herkemeyer, I think it's terrible that some women hit men, hurt themselves in the process, then call the police and file false charges. I'm glad the thought of hitting your wife never entered your mind because men (who are generally stronger) should never hit women. But the problem of false charges is not what Heartbroken2013 needs help with here either.

Like I said, I guess I'm old fashioned. I still think there's nothing wrong with a woman slapping her husband when he's been caught cheating on his wife. I didn't do it, but I sure thought about it! And I hope that helps Heartbroken2013 a little bit, and hope she doesn't feel quite so bad about herself.


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

POSTING AS A MEMBER

I still think there's nothing wrong with a woman slapping her husband when he's been caught cheating on his wife.

Wow. Nothing wrong? NOTHING wrong??

So.... doing something to hurt someone else is OK if it's "justified." Well, then we should give all the WS's whose BS's were "really really" mean to them a pass since lashing out at "injustice" is acceptable.

So I don't think it helps to post strong statements about moral absolutes that might make her healing process even harder.

I completely disagree. It is never ever ok to strike someone. There is a VERY clear difference between shoving or hitting someone who is assaulting you, or hitting someone out of anger. I can't believe this is even up for conversation.

I've been on this side of the fence. I hit my husband after he told me he cheated. IT WAS WRONG. I don't care why I did it. It doesn't matter how I was feeling... it was WRONG.

I have compassion and sympathy for Heartbroken2013. To get to the point of physically lashing out means that the pain inside of her was blinding and all encompassing.

The thing is, giving people a pass for their missteps isn't helping them. It's hurting them because they're never going to learn and grow from what they did. They can either deplete their moral character by justifying it, or the can grow and learn about themselves in hopes of walking down the healthiest path possible.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 7:05 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


I bow to those who keep their hearts open when it is most difficult, those who refuse to keep their armor on any longer than they have to, those who recognize the courage at the heart of vulnerability. - Jeff Brown

Posts: 17307 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

but I think Heartbroken2013 was seeking support here, so I don't think it helps to post strong statements about moral absolutes that might make her healing process even harder.

(Back to posting as a Moderator)

Which is exactly why I flagged the generalizations in this thread in the first place. Generalizations hurt a lot more than they help.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37160 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
beebee
New Member
Member # 40632
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Jrazz, I respect your opinion. I just disagree with it.

You think it is never OK to strike someone, and I think under the circumstances I mentioned - being groped or just finding out your husband cheated on you - a woman who slaps a man is reacting in a pretty normal way, and no, I don't see it as "wrong."

I'm sure a lot of people do. But a lot of people don't, and that's WHY we are having this discussion.

This reaction to "bad" male behavior has been going on a LONG time, in a lot of cultures. It's been portrayed in movies for decades. I know, being portrayed in movies doesn't make anything right - but it's a knee-jerk reaction, and has been one method that women have had on the fly to "get through" to men that they've had enough of being treated really badly.

Some might argue that the "hurt" of the slap doesn't even come close to the hurt of the revelation of an affair.

When words fail, when you're outraged, when you think he's disgusting, slap him.

If you're a pacifist, you will not agree, and I can respect that. But not everyone is a pacifist. I think Gandhi was brilliant, and I love so much of what he said and did. But he had no good answer for what to do about Hitler - a pacifist's response would have had horrific consequences.

I don't think it's necessary to suggest that there's only one way to look at the slapping issue, or to suggest that there shouldn't even be a conversation about it. In your worldview, it was wrong but in mine (and many other people's), it wasn't. Can't we just agree to disagree?


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

POSTING AS A MEMBER

When words fail, when you're outraged, when you think he's disgusting, slap him.
beebee - I'm disgusted by this comment. Really. And it has nothing to do with being a pacifist. Or not.

It has everything to do with being a human who respects HERSELF too much to act in such a way.

Heartbroken - I apologize for contributing to the massive t/j the responses to your post have become.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25305 | Registered: Aug 2011
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Posting as a member, still.

This reaction to "bad" male behavior has been going on a LONG time

Since we're talking about hitting, this is one of the biggest slaps in the face to all the men in this community that I have heard in a long time.

Heartbroken, I'm sorry I participated in the t/j. You deserve our support and time for what you are going through.

For the record, you are NOT as bad as anybody. You are you, you are human, and there's not one of us here that has not done something for which they need to ask forgiveness. I commend you for opening up and talking to us about what you are going through. I'm really grateful for all the people here who helped me see through my rage and back to the person I want to be. Every day is a new day to do something that you can be proud of. You're going to be ok.


I bow to those who keep their hearts open when it is most difficult, those who refuse to keep their armor on any longer than they have to, those who recognize the courage at the heart of vulnerability. - Jeff Brown

Posts: 17307 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

StillGoing, just because I mentioned how a slap on the face by a woman was not considered abuse in days gone by doesn't mean I agree with all of the thinking of those days, such as condoning that old "boys will be boys" view of cheating on your wife. As I'm a betrayed spouse, you didn't really think I'd be OK with that line of thinking, did you? I think it's OK to pick and choose what works from the past - some of it is worth discarding, but some old ways aren't so bad.

I honestly do not know if you were okay with it because you mentioned it as an epochal validation rather than a rational validation. Both of those came from the same source so I was coming in from my typical incoherent way to say that statement is as hypocritical as it gets.

eta:

To add for the OP - no, you are not a bad person. You fucked up, you acknowledge it and don't like that you did it. That's how we grow and better ourselves. Learning from mistakes. Not validating them. I'm sorry for contributing to the t/j also. I'm kind of scatterbrained though and get easily distracted.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 9:00 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7444 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
beebee
New Member
Member # 40632
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

nowiknow23, you took my quote out of context. Without the prior sentence - Some might argue that the "hurt" of the slap doesn't even come close to the hurt of the revelation of an affair - you made it seem like I think a woman slapping a man is OK any time, and I was quite clear that only after being groped or after the revelation of an affair I, and many others, would excuse this.

That was hardly fair of you.

And I feel like I'm being attacked for my opinion, which I'm offering in the spirit of showing support for Heartbroken2013.

I'm sorry if you find the place where I draw the line about these things "disgusting." I disagree with you but I will be more respectful of your opinion than you have been of mine.


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
iggyD
Member
Member # 36171
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

@beebee
Your opinion seems more influenced by movies and television. I encourage you to volunteer at a women's shelter for a day and speak to victims of domestic abuse. You may revisit your position on this.

In real life, "groping" is a form of assault and as such a "slap" would be self-defense. But domestic violence is a very serious issue and there is no reason ever, except self-defense, for anyone to feel they have a right or an excuse to hit anyone else. Ever. Men or women.

Heartbroken - We all know that betrayal sucks, but we're still responsible for how we respond. I applaud your recognition that physical violence is NOT the way to handle your situation and for seeking help and support.


2012 was a bitch...but I'm hopeful about 2013.

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2012
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Oh boy....

First things first, I am fully supportive of Heartbroken2013, which I think is in line with SI's pro healing stance.

In bygone days movies portrayed women slapping men as foreplay, and cowboys carried the 47 shot six shooter. Both were bullshit.

Now we want to talk about when it is okay, but if a woman has martial arts training, then maybe not... yeah, well I studied a bit of it, including the associated culture, Sigong's father actually studied with the monks in the temple. We were told that Kung Fu translates to hard work. There is nothing magical about martial arts techniques, anything a martial artist can be taught to do reliably on purpose, an angry amateur can do by accident. Should I list off the ridiculously low amount of force required for various crippling and lethal techniques?

StillGoing, just because I mentioned how a slap on the face by a woman was not considered abuse in days gone by doesn't mean I agree with all of the thinking of those days, such as condoning that old "boys will be boys" view of cheating on your wife. As I'm a betrayed spouse, you didn't really think I'd be OK with that line of thinking, did you? I think it's OK to pick and choose what works from the past - some of it is worth discarding, but some old ways aren't so bad.
Sounds like you are picking and choosing based on personal advantages rather than a moral code. I am sure your WH would select a different set of things from the past to discard or approve. I know if someone offered me a deal like that, there are quite a few "old ways" I would happily hang onto. Not to mention, once someone initiates violence, it becomes a matter of self defence for the violated.

When words fail, when you're outraged, when you think he's disgusting, slap him.
So how often do you think words fail men when women are outrageous or disgusting? Uhm... yeah... still not cool, in fact it is a personal failure on the part of the slapper. For the record, I got slapped once many years ago, and saw an immediate horrified reaction I took for remorse, though it may have been fear at the expression on my face. Ended up having to have surgery on my nose to straighten the cartilage and allow my sinuses to drain properly to cure the constant headaches, because the "just a slap" happend to come at just the right angle. I am almost a foot taller than STBX, used to play hockey where some of my team started calling me "the goon squad" after handily winning a few fights against simultaneous multiple players on the other team, so it's not like I am a frail sensitive poet type.

As a civilized adult, I have to say that unless something is worth killing or dying over, you have no business fighting. Always disturbs me when I see people trying to justify it within the context of a supposedly loving relationship.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
ItsaClimb
Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 5:03 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

To be honest I think many of us slapped our WSs on D-Day. No it's not right, it's not nice, it's not decent behaviour and I am sure all of us are deeply ashamed of it, BUT I think it has to be seen in context. The vast majority of us who slapped our spouses in shock, trauma and anger on D-Day have never, and will never, resort to such behaviour again. It was a horrible, knee-jerk reaction under the most horrific stress imaginable. In my opinion, provided it didn't turn into a full-on, domestic-violence type attack, we can learn from it, apologise sincerely and let it go.

IMO we HAVE to see this in context. Even a court of law would look at it in light of the circumstances under which it happened. I really feel that none of us (beebee included, if I understand her correctly) are advocating domestic violence, none of us are saying it's RIGHT for a woman to strike a man. But I think most of us realise that D-Day is an emotional tsunami, and some of us react, under those specific circumstances, in ways which are not normal for us - we are not proud of it, we are not claiming it is GOOD or acceptable.

IMHO we need to acknowledging that at that time we were deeply hurt, traumatised human beings who may have reacted a little crazily. Provided that craziness did not spawn further craziness and provided it didn't escalate into something more than a slap or a shove that didn't leave marks, I can't see the justification for beating ourselves up forever after about it.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 966 | Registered: Oct 2012
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Oh Lord!!!

I didn't mean for this to turn into what it has!

When I say 'punched' maybe i should have worded it as 'thumped' .... yes I still struck him, I thumped his chest in anger ... yes I thres his laptop - to me that was the cause for all what had happened. he had an online affair, the laptop was also to blame ... it had to go! I made sure it went!!!

I kicked him, yes, but whn I did this I remember holding back ... it wasn't a full on kick. If most of u read my profile u will see that my husband has grown up with various operations as he was born with bladder exstrophy, I knew what I was doing, where I was kicking him, I made sure it wouldn't be detrimental to his condition.

I have apologised to him, I made it clear at our MC sessions that I was truly ashamed of my actions. my husband believed he deserved what he got and actually said that he didn't realise that he had hurt me so bad, until my out burst (which came nearly 48 hours after DD)

Im sorry that some of you don't agree with what happened, I don't particularly agree with what he did to me either! No, he didn't physically hurt me ... but he emotionally broke me. He may as well have ripped my heart out and stood on it!!

But yet, I know I was wrong!

Thank you to all the people who have supported me and said kind words to help me thru this gulit. thank you too for the pm's of support. I really appreciate all your help, im just sorry some of you have come up in the cross fire of my hurt, I didn't mean for that to happen xx


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 2012
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
tryin2havefaith
Member
Member # 37165
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

I smacked my H once across the face after I discovered the A. I beat myself up badly for it too. I had grown up in a house where my own father routinely smacked my mother, sibling, and me. I knew exactly what I did not want. Worked very hard to break that cycle. I never laid a hand on my H either before or since.

However, when hit with the trauma or discovery, the blind rage that took over was too powerful. I smacked him across the face. I apologized over and over for that. I still do at times. He told me it was not my fault, rather it was his for traumatizing me to that point. He knows my history and knows that the place I went to to do that is almost as painful as the betrayal. It's almost as if it added another layer of trauma for me to heal through.

There are still days that I feel guilty for doing so. Whenever I do verbalize it to my H, he always is very loving and supportive. He completely understands his own part in it, and is loving and forgiving of me. We are continuing to work on our healing together.


ME- BS
HIM- WS
DDay 1/2011
4 - 6 months of TT'ing
Fully R'd
"Just as ripples spread out when a single pebble is dropped into water, the actions of individuals can have far-reaching effects. " -Dalai Lama

Posts: 265 | Registered: Oct 2012
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Thank you to all the people who have supported me and said kind words to help me thru this gulit. thank you too for the pm's of support. I really appreciate all your help, im just sorry some of you have come up in the cross fire of my hurt, I didn't mean for that to happen xx

So glad that you got the support you needed! I didn't get the impression you beat him up. More that you were greatly bothered by your outburst.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Thank you x


Me 45
WH 45
4 kids aged 3 - 25 (2 x adopted in 2013)
Together 15 years
Married 8 years
WH had online cybersex with various sluts!
DD = Nov 23rd 2012
In 'R' and getting to a place we never been before

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
Dreamland
Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Heartbroken
Do Not feel that you did anything wrong no matter what others have said. I believe you were within your rights to do what you needed at that time.
I think what I have learned from this whole ordeal is not to be too quick to judge others. As we have no idea what daily torments people live with in their relationship. Exception women that chose to be the OW. That I have I can't overlook and will judge them as skanky whores with no morals..
@Beebee I am 100% behind your statements.. And agree with everything you said..
We all are suffering and trying to deal with our M and the fall out of our WS actions. And if that means you and I and many other became physical by punching hitting slapping or throwing furniture at our cheating husbands then that is what happened. And it's OK because it was once in that moment of devastation. It's not alright when it becomes a way to deal with anger or rage which was not your case..
So stay strong and forgive yourself in that awful moment of weakness .. You are remorseful of your actions.. I too apologized for getting angry and hitting my Husband. But he felt like yours he deserved that and more..
So cheers and hope you got some support.


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

As we have no idea what daily torments people live with in their relationship.

No, we don't. Yet we don't accept those torments as reasons for an affair, because our actions are our own choices. That it should be any different here is just hypocritical.

She DID do something wrong, and she worked it out. She couldn't have worked it out if she had swept it under the rug as something that was acceptable.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7444 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
VD2012
Member
Member # 36317
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

I'm somewhat astonished at some attitudes in this thread. Double standards, generalizations and "old fashioned" thinking ahoy.

We all are held to our own choices regardless of those other's make. Hitting anyone outside of self defense is wrong. Heartbroken2013, like others said (and unlike what some are saying), and what you clearly show you already know, what you did is wrong. There is no need for "you're not as bad as him" or "you reacted normally to a trauma" type responses.

beebee, just a thought, but have you ever considered the notion that if so many disagree with your viewpoint on something that perhaps you're wrong? Everyone may have an opinion, but not every opinion is correct or proper.

Some also may view the ideals of "old fashioned" as antiquated and archaic. We move away from old fashioned ideals for a reason, and typically adopt better ones.

Others have clearly already said more than enough to what you have said, but I do have a question for you.

What should my reaction have been on D-Day to the discovery of my wife's affair?

Can you guess what it was? I bet you can't. I confronted her with the damning evidence of her phone with the question "how could you?" She collapsed into a hyperventilating sobbing mess. I knelt to the ground and I held her.

If I chose to slap her across the mouth would that have been an acceptable reaction? Or is it unacceptable because I'm a man? What recourse do you think is acceptable for betrayed men? There's a bunch in this thread telling you how wrong your viewpoint is.

Yes, she betrayed me, but striking her for any reason would have been beyond repugnant and not remotely something I'd do to someone I love. This stands as a fact of life regardless of gender or label.

Instead of feeling attacked or marginalized perhaps you should open your mind. Holding onto "old fashioned" views because they suit you is just an excuse in all honesty.

[This message edited by VD2012 at 2:10 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]


Me: 28 ~ Her (FR2012): 27
Together: 9 years, 2 children
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Surrender to the truth of life.


Posts: 466 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Traversing Dark Places With The Light of Truth
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Back again...

I am supportive of Heartbroken precisely because she feels bad about what happened. That is the kind of pain that leads to personal growth. You all know the saying, No Pain, No Gain, or as I used to tell my niece and nephew, "Pain is natures way of saying don't do that."

I read in Wayward a lot, and sometimes I hear about some real freak show horror story marriages prior to the affair, and no matter how bad they get, nobody ever Ever EVER says that made the affair okay and don't worry about it. The idea of just excusing, ignoring, justifying or rugsweeping the behavior is anathema to what we are supposed to be about here, and if it was the kind of support being looked for, I suspect the story would not have been posted.

Some of these responses make me so grateful for my pending divorce, because it appears to be a far better relationship than many R's or M's.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Just bumped an old thread I had to search for in Wayward.
Physical violence and WH


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 2:54 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Dreamland,

This is the reconciliation forum. There is no name-calling or venting in this forum. Please familiarize yourself with the Guidelines and post accordingly.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37160 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

So...is my tl;dr from this thread that the next time my wife sasses me, I can punch her in the mouth? Because that's pretty old school, too, and I need to know if I should start knuckle-toughening exercises or not.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 3:20 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6744 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

I am one of the hitters. At first i didn't feel bad about it. But I realized soon that hitting him was not living according to my values. That was eye opening to me.

After I was a wayward I was starting to get healthy but I had such a long way to go. I realize that things happen quickly but this is where we need to have our values defined BEFORE things like this happen. how many of us have sat down and determined what this looks like for us? I didn't, and that's why it was so easy to say yes to an affair.

it's like this to me: I'm a mandatory reporter. The decision on if I'm going to report child abuse has already been made for me. I do it. There is no question.
same with this kind of thing - clarify your values. Really sit down and think about the kind of person you want to be. and then when situations come up that decision has already been made. I had not done this. Every adult should do this.

I have no idea if hitting someone is as bad as having an affair. I do know that not living your values betrays your own self and that is so effing hard to live with.
JMHO.

[This message edited by rachelc at 3:36 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4916 | Registered: Dec 2010
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

That's a great post, rachelc.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6744 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Topic Posts: 44