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Just Found Out
User Topic: Confrontation
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Flame  Posted: 9:57 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=506967&AP=1&HL=

The link above is to the story I posted a few weeks ago about my world being rocked with the knowledge of my wayward spouse.

The confrontation happened tonight and I am here to tell the story. I sat my WS down to tell her what I knew. I started off by telling her that the last four months of my life have been hell and I admitted to the many mistakes I have made in our marriage. As many people posted, the marriage takes two. I owned up to everything I have done wrong with the marriage and the kids. I then paused and took a deep breath. (sorry my mind and heart is numb so I won't get this right)

I asked her to tell me why she has been so distant to me, more impatient than usual, argumentative in front of our kids, etc. etc. I let her say some of her feelings. Then I asked her what happened between her and the OM on the night that they "stayed in" drinking. She said nothing happened. I asked why they didn't go out like she said they were going to. She said it was cheaper to stay in. I asked her if that is all that happened. She said yes, we had a few drinks and I came home. I took another long and deep breath and asked her again to tell me the truth about what happened that night. Again, she said nothing.

I told her that I know what happened on that night. She again said nothing happened on that night. The next few minutes are kind of a blur so be patient with me. I said I know what happened. I said that you cheated on me that night. What do you mean, she said. I told her that I would never in a million years would check her cell phone because I trusted her...until a night three months previous that a text message came across from OM that caused me to look. I told her that I looked at her text messages from him and her back to him and then she almost yelled at me for looking at her texts and that she trusted me. I was like...whoa!!!!

I said, sure I trusted you, but this text caused me to untrust you. I said I know everything. The flirting, the sexting, the "what are you going to do to me" when we get together, etc. etc. etc. I told her I know it all. I again, said, look be truthful....tell me what happened that night and the other nights. She said she did not have sex with him. She said it was purely banter back and forth and they were having fun and she would never cross that line. She gave me a bullshit story about why she changed her passcode. I don't believe her. I launched into about 45 minutes of how could you do this to me and the kids. She kept claiming that she didn't have sex with him. She did nothing with him according to her.

After my talking, I asked her to tell me why she did it. She launched into a discussion (one way) about how she felt about me and her, how she has been hurt for this many years, etc. etc. and how she reached out to him for support when I wouldn't support her. She said he would be the one who would listen and know when she is upset. She told him everything that has ever happened between us. From the broken marriage to how she feels about my parenting skills and who knows she probably told him about our intimacy issues. She would cry and he would be there for her. After a few minutes I said, well you have told me and admitted to me that you have had an EA. You relied on someone else other than your husband for support. She agreed.

Again, I asked her if she had sex with him. She said no, it was all flirting and bantering. When I asked about the morning after and she said, can't exactly have a mind blowing experience and not think about it...she tried to play it off as if nothing happened. Flirting over texting is not a mind blowing experience in my mind. Is it in yours?

I asked her point blank how many times they did it, where they did it, what they did at my house when dropped off an air hockey table. I said I hope this is all worth you destroying your marriage, family, friends and possibly your job over this. Some silence ensued and she kept denying that she did anything physically with him. All this time, I am reading the text messages to her and she is denying that she did anything with him. She has hugged him (as I witnessed while he was dropping off the hockey table), but she has never kissed him, had oral sex, sex or any other physical activity.

She was bawling telling me all her emotions. She did admit that she sent all the texts. She did admit that she thought about taking it further, but couldn't. She told me she told him that they can't do this anymore and they stopped the texting. I said I know that because I checked her phone every few days until she changed her passcode. She works with the man everyday so I don't see how that is possible as she has contact with him everyday.

She asked me what I want her to do. I say that I have spoken with a lawyer, I have been in IC, etc. I have separation papers drawn up and she instantly says that she will sign them. ????? What?

I retreated and went into my normal unassertive mode and said wait a minute. Probably the kiss of death, huh? I showed the vulnerability that everyone warned me not to show and I did it. I told her that I needed time and I needed her to leave and I never showed her the separation papers. Post Nuptial agreement is what they call it and is legally binding in my state. I told her to leave for a few hours while I picked up the kids, got them to bed and got to sleep myself. I told her that she could come back and sleep on couch. Probably another big mistake.

I don't know anymore. I feel proud that was able to do this and I am glad she was honest about the EA....but I still don't trust that she did not have a PA. Mind blowing experience, wanting him in her mouth, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on and on. I just don't know.

Well now that I put everyone to sleep I will go myself. Any advice from anyone would be so helpful right now.


Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
traildad
Member
Member # 35258
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

First of all, everything is going to be ok. In the end, you will be ok. Time will put all of this behind you.

I started to type a long winded post refuting and critiquing everything she said and you did. Scratch that - I can summarize the situation in one sentence.

Don't believe a word she says, and she called your bluff.

Another thing, did you tell the OM's spouse? If not, you need to ASAP.

Finally, dust yourself off and get back up. She scratched and clawed and exploited your weaknesses. She wanted you to beg her to stay, and you did. You gave her all of the power. She lied, you know they have had a PA, she will continue to lie.

Here's my advice: Have her sign the papers if she says that what she wants. This needs to feel real to her. Stand up for your family. Tell the OM's spouse what you know. If she gets cut off from him she may start to come out of the fog.

Another thing, read some quotes by men like Theodore Roosevelt, etc. Think about what they would do in this situation. Stand up.

"In short, in life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard: donít foul and donít shirk, but hit the line hard."

I was in your situation, had the same exact conversation. My xWW even packed up her clothes in the car. I begged her to stay, sigh, she did, and a month later she was still in the A. I should have let her leave.

[This message edited by traildad at 10:23 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


Me BH - 33
3 beautiful young children
DDay 12/13/11
Divorced.

Posts: 650 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Michigan
Hope2B
Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

I am so sorry, cytron, that you are going through this.

I'm on the outside looking in, reading your posts, and my thoughts are this: She is lying. She is trying to do damage control.

If she wants to sign the separation papers (or post nuptual agreement or whatever it's called), let her do so. You don't have to turn them in to anyone, but this WILL indicate if she is not interested in staying, and her behavior shows she's really more into the other person.

I also doubt that this is an EA for her. A woman doesn't text stuff like you found to someone with whom they have not been physically intimate.

BTW, if a woman is crying and telling you all of her emotions, after all the info you've written here, I am sorry to say that she is most likely using every means at her disposal to manipulate you.

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to just admit the truth, and not practice this kind of subterfuge, unless they believe it benefits them in some way.



Me: early 60s
Him: 65 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo or maybe ever 4x/mo

Posts: 359 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
TS68
Member
Member # 40211
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Cytron: there is no way you can believe anything she is telling you. She is in CYA mode and will only admit to what you have proof of. I agree with the last two responses, she is lying to you!!! Why why why can't some people just come clean??

Protect your kids from this filth. They deserve to be shown what character really is.

What these waywards need to realize is that they made a mistake and own up to it. The only marriages that should (IMO) survive infidelity are ones where the WS takes full responsibility for their LIES. Otherwise, you are just burying your head in the sand.

You have kids who need to know right from wrong and how to be accountable for their own actions. YOU have an opportunity to teach them!

Sorry for the rant, I am coming from the place of a wife who is constantly being lied to and still cannot figure out what my H is really up to. I too confronted early on but with much less than you had. Now, my H goes to work each day with her and if I show my insecurity with it he calls me crazy. He is a master gaslighter but without proof I am afraid I will lose my kids.

I commend you for your honesty with your wife. You have given her every opportunity to take the high road, but she did not take it. Like some other wise SI person has quoted " when someone shows you who they really are, believe them"

Best of luck and (((hugs)))



Married 20 years

Posts: 211 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Midwest
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Agree with Traildad.

Have her sign the papers.
Insist that she leaves the house.

If you want to save your marriage, you need to wake her up.
If you want out, it wont matter.
Definitely tell the OMBW.

If you don't do the above, she will cake eat indefinitely.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 11:09 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
mandan66
Member
Member # 40075
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Cytron: the other comments already posted echo my thoughts precisely, particularly 'traildad'(kudos, brother!). You are being lied to, and she needs to wake up. My scenario closely mirrors yours. My bluff was called many times in the beginning, and if I could have a do-over, I would have drawn my line in the sand much more quickly. As it was, my suffering was prolonged by about 7 months. Please please don't go there. She may never straighten out, or become the woman you want to spend the rest of you days with. She definitely won't if she always feels she has one foot in the door with you. Close the door on that foot, but hard. Focus on you and your children. No matter what, you will survive this. I know, because like many others on this SI, I never thought I would. It was not a miracle, it was just a slow process of believing in myself, and sorting through the untruths and lies.
In two weeks, more divorce will be final. I am happy about it, and she, whose idea it was in the first place, is miserable. Yet not once did she try for any counseling.
Remember: irresponsible folks do some pretty dumb things, so the worst may be yet to come. Again, you can and will suvive that also. Focus on you and the kids; that can be a win you pull out of this. Her--she's got to get her head out of her butt before anything positive can happen. She has to genuinely own what she has done. And---that may never come. Mine never did. So now it is time for CYTRON to get his ducks in the row. Now.


Me: 47; WW: 48
2 DS: 9, 14
M:18--T:19
DDay: Jan/13
Divorced and Done!--7/13

Posts: 121 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: KS
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Will you be telling the other betrayed spouse?


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 3:59 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Plus another one for you following traildad's advice. She's calling your bluff with the separation papers - you need to stand up to her and make her not feel so confident about you. I know it's not half as easy to do as it is to say.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Kuddo's for having the balls to confront. Now the most important part in all of this is follow through. Don't make shallow threats. Go full throttle and lay a massive dose of reality on her. I'd bet my left nut the first thing she did after she left was contact OM and give him a heads up. She is calling her plays directly from the WS handbook. Deny, deny, deny till you cant deny anymore. Then blame you for what happened. She is going to feel you out as to what you can prove. Don't tip your hand so quickly and never give away your sources. As traildad has told you time to hit the line hard. Be prepared for a lot more bullshit and blame from her. Lay them papers on her ass. The only course of action you have right now is to serve her up a big plate of consequence. Without it you only spinning your wheels. And if you back up one inch right now she will exploit it and your life will become much worse. A WS can smell weakness a mile away. They will soak it up and use it to manipulate you into allowing them to continue their nonsense. Be strong man. The only choice you have now is to forge ahead. Good luck brother.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5675 | Registered: Nov 2007
Gipper
Member
Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Haha! My WW said the exact same thing yours did. I reacted like you did and it bought me 4 more months of games, lies, blameshifting, etc. I think you did well in your confrontation. Listen to your friends on here. Tell OBS, drop a VAR or two to get more evidence, make her sign the papers, and detach.
These people thrive on our predictability. They have learned how to manipulate us in ANY situation. You need to start zigging when she expects you to zag, and vice versa. Try not to show emotion because they see that as weakness. At least give the impression that you are takin out the trash and moving on in your life without her and her boyfriend.
Stay strong, friend.

Posts: 718 | Registered: May 2011
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

The other posters have covered everything, but I still want to say kudos for confronting. No matter how many times you rehearse your script, it will always take a turn that you are not prepared for. But she left that conversation knowing that you are aware of her affair, and that you do not believe her.

Ultimatums are difficult if you are not 100% ready to follow through at that moment. And although you probably want that threat as a do-over, it is nonetheless out there. She called your bluff, you backpeddled, and she took advantage of such. But what is important right now, is to stay on the offensive, especially telling the OM's wife in a convincing, compassionate manner. I would also take her up on signing those papers for you.

I know that you don't want to think about this, but what if she won't change? Will you continue to stay in this marriage like it is today? If not, then the signing of those papers are an early start to your recovery. If she comes around, and wants back in the marriage, you can decide at that point if you want to proceed or not. But the truth is, there is no easy way around where you stand in your marriage right now...your ship has sunk, and you have to swim in some direction towards shore.

You have aired her dirty laundry to her. You KNOW that she is lying. To oversimplify this, continue to treat her as a liar, until her words and actions match one another. The more that you detach, and are unwilling to accept her behavior, the better that you will start to feel. And this is what it is all about---getting you to a better place.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 7:22 AM, September 15th (Sunday)]


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

My biggest mistake was not making her sign those papers when she volunteered to do so. I resisted and didn't give them to her. We continued to talk and at the end I asked her to leave while I picked up the kids. She refused to take the papers with her. I got them home and into bed and she came back at some point and slept on the couch. I came down in the morning and she was emotionless. Asked me what she should do. I asked her to leave and take the papers with her. She didn't take the papers but left. She has been texting me asking forgiveness. I told her how can I forgive when she committed the ultimate betrayal. I know I need to stay and be strong and do what is best for me. However I have never thought of myself only thought of others in my life so I don't know how to think of myself. I just don't know. I am too weak to handle this.

Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

(((Cytron)))

I would bet that almost all of us have felt that way.
But you CAN do this. Sending you strength.

Imagine all of us at your back, standing behind you, when you talk to her

[This message edited by mchercheur at 9:33 AM, September 15th (Sunday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazycatlady
Member
Member # 12849
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

You aren't weak, you are doing a great job. We all have periods where we go backwards but seriously, you are doing great.
Now what to do? Start a hard 180. No discussions if she refuses to sign them unless its about kids and finances. No testing, phone calls nothing unless its strictly the above.

If she signs them, take the papers to your attorney. Don't bluff any more. Go through with your threats, once she sees this she will fall on either side of the fence and either way, you go on and she falls.

Good luck. You are doing great.


Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.
William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"
D-Day: Nov 30, 2006
"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night."
William Shakespeare

Posts: 1713 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Etherville
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

cytron, you did fine. She was not going to sign the papers. You have given her opportunities and she has balked each time. As for the PA, you know that truth too. At dday I thought I needed my WW to admit for it to be true. In retrospect I had all the proof I needed going into dday.

Focus on you and your kids while you catch your breath. Take care of yourself. Believe nothing your WW wife says, and only trust sustained actions and behaviors.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4131 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Ok so she is asking for forgiveness. I would not ask her 'how can I forgive you for the ultimate betrayal' and instead tell her HOW you are going to do that which includes specific actions from her:

1. Ending the A
2. Telling the complete truth to the detail you want to know ( this could take several weeks as she might be in some state of denial plus many ICs out there counsel NOT to tell...that is what my wife's IC did.). Find the Jacob's Letter here on this site which you can use as a compelling appeal for the truth. It is what overrode my wife's IC opinion. I do think for some folks and WWs perhaps more than WHs, it is going to take some time for to get a grip on reality, which includes not being able to go back in time and pretend the A did not happen.
3. Have her tell family and friends and coworkers as you choose if you feel that people close to you need to know in order to understand the upcoming turbulence.
4. Counseling
5. She is truly remorseful and backs down from marriage re_write.
6. You are going to work on YOU and then decide if you want this marriage. Forgiveness does not have to include keeping the M.

Tell the BW. I did. Happy to share that story if you want.

FWIW I thought you did well in the confrontation. Its messy business.

Do you want to see if R is possible?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Cytron,

I am so sorry you are experiencing the hell so many of us went through. Note I say "went." It is finite.

Like so many of us, I was where you were, only months ago. From D-day to (in my case) filing for divorce from the woman I though was the love of my life, my soulmate, it took ten months.

This caught my eye:

I am too weak to handle this.

I was so utterly convinced that this was true of myself. I think I might have posted these very same words on SI, in fact. I was so sure.

But I wasn't. And I am not. Nor are you, regardless of how you feel right now. You are in the depths of your pain and you cannot see above it or ahead of it. You are in a certain place, but you can't see that it is a path--a linear path--because your perspective is clouded by your confusion and despair.

The only way out is through, and the only way through is by action. Firm decisive action, even if it is utterly counterintuitive to your nature. Act. Don't stay in this limbo or it will devour your soul.

You are loving and sensitive. This is why you are in pain. But you are strong. Act, and the emotions will catch up. It will likely take a while, but it will. It will.

All the best.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1621 | Registered: Dec 2012
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Cytron
Tell the other BS.
She may find out more on them!
Send her your proof so far.

A marriage can survive infidelity.
You have to know what you will tolerate. Your line in the sand.
Like is she allowed to continue to work with other man?
Can she quit that job, will she?

I think you did good so far.
Stay strong.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
keptmyword
Member
Member # 35526
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

I started off by telling her that the last four months of my life have been hell and I admitted to the many mistakes I have made in our marriage. As many people posted, the marriage takes two. I owned up to everything I have done wrong with the marriage and the kids

I understand you wanting to own up to mistakes in your marriage. Everyone should do so.

Problem here is: Her adultery/infidelity had NOTHING to do with the marriage or with you. Period.

Adultery is a PERSONAL problem. It is not a MARITAL problem. Although obviously, the betrayal can outright end marriages or cause severe damage

Bad marriages cause separation and divorce but they don't "force" a spouse into having sex with other people. The notion of a "bad" marriage causing adultery is simply absurd. But, people with poor esteem, self-worth/validation issues, and weak values will USE any marital issues as what they want to perceive as a great excuse to act on their personal problems. In fact, the majority of adultery happens in marriages that are considered good.

It is important you know this. Knowing this will help in detaching and doing what you need to do to help yourself through the betrayal.

As stronger08 and others have stated, the persistence of the denials is amazing. I had the very letter my XWW wrote to her affair guy stating outright that they had sex when I confronted her and she denied that anything at all was going on and kept on denying. She simply did not want to deal with the reality.

Be prepared though - for when she cannot deny any longer, when she is forced into dealing with the unpleasant reality about herself that she has been running away from, she will either break down and come to the "what have I done?" state or very likely become very nasty and blame you and the marriage for everything. She will rewrite your marital history to suit her blaming and excuses. You will be the target of her anger because you are the one who popped and exposed her bullshit fantasy bubble. She may become someone and something you have never known before.

Stay strong. Always know you have maintained your integrity and your vows through your marriage during the good and the bad.

My XWW didn't come around until I filed for divorce. She immediately wanted to reconcile but I know I'll never trust this woman again so I divorced her.

Either way, know that you will be just fine in the end.


I Divorced Her.

Posts: 362 | Registered: May 2012
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

A hard 180 will do wonders.

She is in damage control and trying to rug sweep with out coming clean.

Dont allow her to manipulate you with her lies.


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Wow I just got a phone call from the OM. She ran to him and told him that I know everything and the asshole called me. Left a message while I was in church of all places. Said he wants to talk to me. According to BS he is going to tell his wife everything. God damnit I should have told her first. They are covering each others asses. I comp,teeny screwed this up like I have screwed up everything in my life.

Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Cytron

you are doing everything right so far. however, you need to do one more thing "NOW"..today...no later than tomorrow...

You need to advise the AP's faithful wife ...do it NOW

...dont tell your wayward wife you are going to do this... just do it and watch what happens then....if AP tells your WW what you did, you will know contact is continuing...

then you can define your terms of "R". True NC for sure etc etc

In my case, i not only notified her, I kept contact with other AP's faithful wife and we both kept watch on our waywards until real NC took place...which was about 3 mos after I confronted.

Also, I purchased a SIM card reader and retreived all her texts and pictures off her cell including "deleted" pics and texts.

When she gave me the song and dance about how dare i investigage her etc..
(while she also had that deer in headlights look) which sounds like the same look your WW had (its part of the fog) i told her "I HAD EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN MY MARRIAGE-JUST AS SHE WOULD IF THIS WAS REVERSED"
AND... she had nothing to say.. how do you respond to that to agrue you cant...

Now the AP's faithful wife also has that right... to this day she thanks me for calling her.

Sending you strength to get thru this mess...you had no vote counted in the decisioin about your wife's "A"..

ME: 59 BS
Her: 57 WW
married 25 yrs
knew each other 27 yrs.
her : LTA (PA & EA) former boss 7 yrs.(maybe 10?)
D- 24 yrs old former Eating disorder left wtih OCB
D-day Early March 2012
Confrontation-day: late April 2012
Lies, TT, rug sweeping, blame placing and fog months
NC: april 2012 -broke N/C immediately
lies about NC for 3 months
True NC: july 2012
I "outed " the "A" to her AP's wife and we kept in contact to assure complete N/C was maintained
IN "R" and its been a roller-coaster ride just like everyone has said

edited to add my abbreviated history at bottom

[This message edited by hurtsobadinside at 12:05 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Cytron
Do not engage in anything with AP.
Ignore his request to meet or talk.

Nothing good can come of that meeting or chat.

All his BS about talking to his faithful wife is just that...BS.

Make that call to his faitful wife to "out the affair"
just like I told you in my previous post and do it now to his faithful wife.

and...if your wayward wife starts telling you how YOU should handle this and just talk to the AP, ignore her and do what I told you in my previous post.

and tell her, if she wants "R", true "R" her focus is on your "M" not his.

They are trying to cover their tracks....and rewrite the "A" history...to soft sell and minimize it....dont believe a word either of these selfish liars say


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
fight4respect
New Member
Member # 40595
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Cytron, there are many people here who are in a position to help much more than I ever could. I just wanted to say that, from where I am standing, you do not look weak at all. I have a lot of respect for people such as yourself who have to confront their partners the way you do. In a way, I had it easy because I was able to confront my ex-partner over the phone. I had written down what I wanted to say. Before making the phone call, I rehearsed my speech, and slept on it, re-read it again, and edited it tens of times. It was short, only 5 minutes or so, and when I made the phone call I literally read it out. My heart was in my throat, my head was in a total fog. When my ex interrupted, I just kept going. I was probably on an automated pilot and saying my speech by heart. I imagined myself as a judge, sitting behind my wooden bench, peering down on him whilst stating the facts. I know I would not have been able to do it any other way. Had I had to confront him in person, I would have been a total mess. It is a very hard thing to do because your feelings pull you in one way and your mind in another, and all the while the person in front of you, or at the other end of the phone, is aggressively in denial. Do what works for you to keep cool and detached, if you can. Give yourself the love you want to give her.


* I used to listen to people and trust they would act upon their word. Now I listen to people, and observe if they will act upon their word *

Posts: 10 | Registered: Sep 2013
traildad
Member
Member # 35258
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

I comp,teeny screwed this up like I have screwed up everything in my life.

No! You didn't! You are doing amazingly well. You have your WW and the OM freaking out. You have the opportunity to be back in control here. OM wants to talk to keep you from telling his faithful wife. Talk to her, not him. Now!

Your confrontation and bold steps have given you a window to end this A right now. Get it out in the open.

Just understand this one thing, as much as you might want R, there is nothing you can do to make your WW want R as well. Your WW sounds very similar to mine. She wanted D, but was too afraid to file, so she basically forced me to do it so she could tell everyone that I was the one that filed. You are not weak, she is weak. If she doesn't want to be in your M there is nothing you can do, and absolutely nothing you did wrong.


Me BH - 33
3 beautiful young children
DDay 12/13/11
Divorced.

Posts: 650 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Michigan
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

cytron,

Like others have said, don't talk with OM. He is going to lie to his BW, and make you out to be a crazy husband. Save all your evidence, she will need to see it too, in order to know the truth.

Block OM's phone number. Because your BW ran to him immediately, instead of starting NC, sit her down and tell her to sign, or to follow all your requirements for R, which others here have done a great job of outlining for you. Today.

I have a different take on her initially agreeing to sign the papers: she was in shock, and had all kinds of conflicting feelings and thoughts going on in her head. She was afraid you really meant it, so she was going to do whatever you asked.

When you backed down, she was relieved you didn't really mean it, and now she thinks she doesn't have to sign...and she can still eat cake.

She is a typical WS in a fog, rewriting M history in her mind to let her have her 2nd beau, but still wanting you and the M.

She needs to quit her job, or figure out how to have NC, including a NC letter, immediately.

OM's BS HAS to be told the truth, ASAP. This will help kill the A.

You can do this.

HBH

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 1:11 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

cytron, you are far from screwing this up - you are handling things just fine and you have done well so far. Just keep believing in yourself.


As for the AP - don't talk to him. They are going to try to gaslight you and minimise the affair. Don't believe either that he intends telling his wife 'the truth' neither you nor the other betrayed wife will be getting the truth easily out of these two. Your wife ran straight to him to get their stories straight - it's still them two together trying to run the show. They are communicating, joining forces to minimise the affair and contain the damage. Don't play their game. Take control yourself. Don't talk to AP - do talk to his wife.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

You are doing fine---far better than you believe. We aren't telling you "good job" just to try to make you feel better; we are telling you this because it is the truth.

As for the AP--screw him. Let that piece of shit squirm. But you should definitely have issue with your WW running straight to him---it shows that her loyalty is with him...not you. And the bullshit about confessing to his wife? Straight out of the cheaters handbook---Chapter 2, page 1. He is in full "cover your ass" mode so he can do as much damage control as possible. Just ignore him. Try to get through to his wife, then explain to YOUR wife what NO CONTACT means.

The sooner that you take control of these issues, the sooner that you will notice changes...in yourself, and possibly your WW.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

cytron

I wish I had known about this site on Dday, but I did not find it until a year & a half later.
I did kick WH out on Dday, but I tried to be nice---waited months hoping that WH would see that he should stop contact with OW. Guess what, he didn't---what ensued was months of continued contact & torture for me. Until I made the appt. with the divorce mediator. That's when it started turning around.

If you took a poll of all of the BSs here, I bet 99 % of us wish that we had been even stronger from the very beginning than we were.
I bet you wont find one BS on this site who says:
" I wish I had been easier on WS when I found out. I should have given him his space, let him decide in his own time, accepted everything he said at face value, & trusted him immediately."
The problem is that we don't want to believe that our spouse would do this to us. We want to believe that they are telling us the truth. We just want our marriage to go back to what we (thought we) had before.

But, the sooner you start being tough, the sooner you will shock WW out of the fog & she will see what she is throwing away. She will see that you respect yourself. If you are nice, she will just continue to cake eat & fence sit.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

One of the principal reasons for telling the OM's BS is that you have her on your side against the two cheaters. Both of them will now gang up on you to make you out to be a ridiculous neurotic who has mislabeled a harmless friendship.

See the other BS as soon as possible [in person] and show her the evidence. It may not be too late. Either way you need to take a tougher stance very soon or things will get even worse. Try listening to the excellent advice being given to you for a start.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

The other thing about telling the OM's wife is that it plants the seed and no matter how he spins it, she will be on alert. She won't believe him anymore than you believe your wife (especially if you send her copies of the texts). So she'll be watching him and questioning him. Trust me, I got the call from the OW's husband. Both the OW and my husband swore nothing happened. I got the "We kissed once but it was uncomfortable" story from them both. But I never believed it even when my husband asked me to look him in the eye and lied through his teeth.

I searched everything, his computer, his phone records, his luggage, you name it. My husband finally admitted to the sex when he couldn't handle me driving myself crazy trying to find the proof I knew was out there somewhere. And when he admitted, I told her husband every detail I was given.

Even if he convinces her to drop it, it will always be there in the back of her mind and she'll be watching. And while she's holding him on a short leash, you will have time to figure out if you really do want to reconcile with your wife.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4102 | Registered: Sep 2005
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

You are doing great Cytron, much better than I did, for sure.

I really regret not contacting the OBS right away. I believed my H, who believed the MCOW, that she had told him and that he didn't care. I eventually sent her a "keep away from my house and kid" message, cc'ing to her BH, and that was *it*.

The right thing to do, for yourself and for the OBS, is to tell. As soon as you can. It's really hard to do, but the right thing.

Continued strength to you, Cytron.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 865 | Registered: Sep 2012
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Look. Lighten up on yourself. You did fine. It''s not like you get training in real life for finding out that your spouse is cheating and then having them come clean to you in a burst of remorse while the heavens open up and angles smile approvingly upon you.

Its dirty, heartrending, horrible stuff. You did fine. You are in the house with your children, your WW is out of it, you have confirmed to yourself that her primary loyalty right now is with the OM since she couldn''t wait to rat you out, and both of them are running scared.

Now is the time to be calm and pick up the pieces one at a time.

First off, call the BW and fill her in on everything you have. As kindly as possible, but with no doubt at all.

Next, tell your WW that she doesn''t get a chance to come back into the house unless she signs the papers and agrees to go NC with the OM. Then, only if YOU want, she can come back and sleep on the couch. She can earn her way back to anything else.

Next, tell your pastor about this. Get some real-life support.

Lastly, take those signed papers to your lawyer and find out what the next step is. And take it. Keep the pressure on your WW until she either comes clean or leaves. Either choice right now is far better than her lying to you and trying to make you #3 in your two-person marriage.

(((hugs))) Be kind to yourself, OK?


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4856 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Thank you everyone for the advice. On a positive note, I had a great day with my kids. Went to Sunday School and church (my son got his first bible), we then went to play miniature golf, eat ice cream, go to two parks, ride bikes around a basketball court and watch them laugh hysterically why they were making each other dizzy and falling all over the place.

All the while I was crying inside and wondering how this could happen.

Question. How can she go NC when she works with him. They are both public school teachers. If they quit their job (either or both), they are throwing away their career. I know, I know....I shouldn't care. Remember, I am the one who cares for everyone except themselves.


Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

The one proactive thing you can do is talk to this man's wife.

Then you need to go silent on your WS until she decides to come clean.


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8098 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
nuance
Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Consequences. If you R would you be comfortable with them working together?


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1209 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
mandan66
Member
Member # 40075
Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

cytron,

((mchercheur)) could not have said it better, keep rereading her post if you have to, its spot on. I think the overall theme you are getting here though is that most of us posters have the same regret: not drawing a line in the sand sooner. Like (mcher), I tried to nice my spouse (my wife) back into our marriage, and it failed miserably. Waited 4-5 months before I acted, and now wish I had done it sooner.
Be proud though, of the steps you have taken so far. Hard steps to make, for sure; but these hard things get easier as you go farther along.
As to the 'outing of the AP', I agree, it almost is always the way to go. I couldn't, as it would have immediately resulted in her losing her job, and it still would to this day.
I realized, even in my early shock and rage, that would not be good for my kids going down the road, as she was the primary money maker. So have played nice, even though we are two weeks out from our divorce, and even today, thought how lovely it would be to see her suffering the pain and humiliation I did.
But again, my kids could potentially much worse off, and I can;t let that happen.

Hang in there friend---you are doing great, And yes, as the others have said, unbelievably, it will get better!


Me: 47; WW: 48
2 DS: 9, 14
M:18--T:19
DDay: Jan/13
Divorced and Done!--7/13

Posts: 121 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: KS
Secrets Kept
Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, September 16th (Monday)

Please tell us you called the OM's BS TODAY!! And please quit being so hard on yourself. It is hard enough dealing with your own pain during this crap & the thought of doing it to another family is also torture. But she HAS to know. NOW!!! You have the proof so even if fuck-head OM does or did confess, you will have the proof that she doesn't & that he can't then deny to her. They have a new baby & I cannot see a woman sitting back accepting her H having an affair with a woman 13 years older. It will help make this stop but you should not trust your BS if she is the one who told you he was going to tell all.
And what does he have to say to you besides apologize & beg you not to tell his W?? Fuck him!! The nerve.

If you don't tell OM's BS, this will probably continue, just underground for some time at least. So this is your chance to turn around your statement of not doing anything right. Do this, please so it doesn't feel like a double betrayal to her knowing you knew but didn't tell. Do this for yourself as well, please.

Thoughts & prayers are with you here!! Please keep us posted!!


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
H-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 210 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, September 16th (Monday)

Cytron

Remember this:

You are the strong one!

You are the one in control!

Speak to the OMW today. And and he a copy of all the crappy texts.

Continue to take control, improve yourself and be the man and father you want to be.

Hm64


Posts: 880 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, September 16th (Monday)

How can she go NC when she works with him. They are both public school teachers. If they quit their job (either or both), they are throwing away their career.

As to the 'outing of the AP', I agree, it almost is always the way to go. I couldn't, as it would have immediately resulted in her losing her job, and it still would to this day.
I realized, even in my early shock and rage, that would not be good for my kids going down the road, as she was the primary money maker.

I had this same problem. WH is in a very specialized job, & has been the main money maker for years ( I have always worked, but part time since the first baby.) He is only a few years from retirement (we had kids later in life), & would not have been able to find a comparable job if he had quit.
So, I have had to live with them working in the same building ever since Dday. WH did, however,confide the problem to his immediate supervisor @ work who is responsible for assigning what area they work in, & he got himself transferred to another part of the building (WH & OW used to sit next to each other all day at work )

I can tell you from experience that this has been difficult. Ideally, I think it would be so much easier to move on if OW was completely out of our lives. Every morning when WH leaves for work, I wonder if he will see OW. But, the MC has stated: even if he had quit & gone to another job, there are plenty of other OWs out there.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, September 16th (Monday)

Question. How can she go NC when she works with him. They are both public school teachers. If they quit their job (either or both), they are throwing away their career.

FWW (and her OM) were let go from their employer. She no longer applies for jobs where she may be in contact with OM. Not just at work, but in functions, community events, etc. At first this was because I did not trust her to be around OM, now it is because she cannot stand the thought of seeing or being near OM.

Yes, it has hurt us financially. She will probably never again make the money she was making where she had her last A. The overall financial cost is probably less than a D, but with the recession she has had lowering paying work and streches of unemployed.

Teachers can transfer to other schools in the district if large enough, go to other districts, find other jobs.

Telling the OM's BS is the best first step to help keep them apart no matter what you and your BW end up doing.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4131 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, September 16th (Monday)

Cytron - First of all I want to say you are doing a great job so far. This shit is hard. It takes time to find your strength in this mess.

So first of all take a moment to be proud of how you have handled things so far.

Next, contact other BS, she has every right to know, and now that you know yoru WW has colluded with her WH you know there is going to be 10 tons, of blameshifting, marriage rewriting, minimalizing crap to wade through. It's much easier to just walk around it.

As far as them being public school teachers, it can be very hard to establish NC. Unless one of them are willing to transfer schools. This probably will not be possible untils the end of the semester. Esp if they are working with younger grades. If one of them has job as a counselor, or other ancillary staff it may be more feesible as well.

If your wife defoggs she will do WHATEVER it takes to R, and if that means quitting, changing, or taking a leave from her job she will do it. However I think you are a long way from that happening at this point. She is just trying to put out a fire she realized was burning, unfortunately she doesn't realize that he whole world is on fire, because of her fog, she can't see the forest for the trees.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8592 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, September 16th (Monday)

Your WW imediatley runs to the OM. Well I guess NC is something else your WW doesn't understand.

It's called consequences.

They're teachers. They're "supposed" to be smart enough to realize that if they got caught they could loose their jobs, not to mention their marriages.

As for loosing their jobs, as long as "you" can survive on one paycheck, why should you care what happens to the OM and his family. He's an adult just like your WW.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, September 16th (Monday)

Hey man. I am sorry for what you are going through. I can promise you that things will get better. They may seem worse for awhile, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I got a feeling you are going to happy again. Strong people always bounce back.

Your W is not telling you the truth. Anyone here has heard this before. It is called trickle truth. It is a misguided attempt to minimize the damage they have already done. Not defending your W, but it is fairly common.

Just wanted you to share something from my personal experience that may be helpful to you right now.

I, like you, had separation papers drawn and was getting ready to move out. I couldn't tell my kids so I stayed. (My W figured she had dodged a bullet). She had no good reason to do anything I asked if she knew I was staying put. Why would she ? Denial is a powerful force that keeps us remembering the horrible things we have done.

Anyway the bill from my attorney showed up and my W opened the envelope. She asked me what it was and I told her that I had the attorney draw up a S agreement. He was still working on the D papers so that they could be filed. I was intent on ending the M over her infidelity.

It was quite a wake up call for her. It made it real for her. For the first time she believed I was going to D her. She eventually got the help she needed and began to help me heal from her horrible choices. (Her choices, not mine, brought this into my life.)

People who are broken and escape into these fantasy worlds don't have the same rational thought processes that you and I do. Sometimes the only thing that works is shattering the facade leaving them to suffer the consequences of their actions.

Tell OM W. Have your W sign the papers. Give them to your attorney (for safe keeping). Protect yourself and your children. This is not punishment for her. It is protecting yourself and your children from further harm. Triage step one, stop the bleeding.

If things change, you can always put a stop to it. Right now she is off in la-la land convincing herself she will get away with this. Show her that she is not going to. You may have to burn the village in order to save it. I know that sounds harsh, but many other people who have weighed in here only had one regret, not being firmer at the beginning. Standing up for yourself is never something you should need to apologize for later.

Actions have consequences. Telling OM W is ruining their life ? No, OM already did that. You are only giving the consequences haste.

Take care of yourself. Today at over 3 years out, my W is better and safe for me. I am doing well. I don't look at this as something that ruined my life, I now look at it as something that taught me some painful lessons. I incorporate those into my new world each day. I am stronger, independent and surer of myself than I have ever been.

You will get there too, just keep going.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, September 16th (Monday)

Well, it has been an eventful 24 hours. The last contact I had with WS was 1:00 PM on Sunday. I took the kids to have a very fun day with golf, ice cream, parks, one of their favorite meals, etc. They were making each other dizzy in the family room and laughing hysterically so it was good. Meanwhile I was crying inside.

I sent OM spouse a FB message and it was read, but no response yet. There was a phone call from a number I don't recognized five minutes after it read. I did not answer and there was no message. I did not call to see if it was her. Not sure if I will or not.

Today, I went to my IC appointment and then I went to family doctor and they put me on a depression medicine. Both IC and doctor were amazed at how well I was doing.

Fast forward to 4:45 PM as I was preparing to leave work to pick up the kids. Get a text from WS that she is picking kids up at daycare, taking them to baseball and spending time with them and I could pick them up after practice. Whoa???/ Seriously, she could ask? I told her I was already on my way. I got there and she was in parking lot. I walked right in the door and she drove away. I took kids to practice and she met me there. No words between us until kids got in car.

I went over to her and was as nice as I could be given the situation. I said that I would never take kids away from her and we would need to start working out who had them when. I then told her that I could not believe that she would break NC less than 12 hours after I asked her to do it. Grant it she never said she would agree to do it. She proceeded to start an argument with me about him. She said she has no choice but to talk to him since they work together (two different teams and don't have to see each other if they don't want to except at full school meetings) She said she saw him today and they talked. She will continue to talk to him. I could not believe what I was hearing. I blank stared her for a few minutes while she went on and finally I just said "I said you are not to have contact with him and you betrayed that". I then walked to my car and took my kids home.

This is exactly what so many of you said would happen. I can't believe how cold she was to me and how unremorseful she is. Again, this is exactly what was told would happen.

Interesting is all I can say. I won't have to see her tomorrow as she has back to school night. I am not going to contact her but I am sure she will contact on Wednesday about seeing them. I will work out when we will each have the kids for this week and then go from there.

One day at a time, but I think today convinced me that my marriage is over.


Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 12:33 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Oh, Cytron. You have had a busy pain-filled weekend, but you are coping REALLY WELL. I mean that. I am so impressed with your strength and tenacity. You are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for.

In your most recent update, you said you FB'd the OM's W, but didn't answer a possible return call. Did your message tell her about the A? Or just that you need to "talk"? Just curious. She really needs to know what her scumbag H has been doing.

I've read many words of advice on this site and many say not to make any rash decisions in the immediate aftermath of Dday. I know you believe your M is over. And maybe it is. And that's okay if that's what you choose is right for you. But the rollercoaster has just started and you will have a lot of ups and downs coming. Take time to heal yourself before making any lifelong decisions. Wait to see the fallout. Things may change (or they may not). I remember the "dead eyes" I got from my WH on Dday. Freaky. I did not know this man. At our first MC session, he explained to our C exactly why it was impossible for him to go NC with his AP. He gave himself license to keep contact as long as he wanted. A WS's head is very far up his/her backside when Dday hits during the A. So far up there, their brain is oxygen-deprived. Don't expect anything she says to make sense at this point or to be true.

Stand your ground. Continue to be tough. You are much stronger than you realize. Keep up the good work. Breathe deeply. Take it one moment at a time until you get to one day at a time. Stay hydrated. Eat. Exercise. Sleep. Glad you saw your doc already. You are doing everything right. Remember that! We are all here, we've got your back.


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 691 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Wow Cytron,

I said that I would never take kids away from her and we would need to start working out who had them when. I then told her that I could not believe that she would break NC less than 12 hours after I asked her to do it. ... She proceeded to start an argument with me about him. She said she has no choice but to talk to him since they work together... She said she saw him today and they talked. She will continue to talk to him. I could not believe what I was hearing.

Boy does this bring back memories. I could have written the same exact thing a few weeks after Dday.
It's a play straight out of the WS Handbook, pg.23.
I guess she still thinks she can have her cake & eat it too.
Time for you to show her that it's one or the other----her fantasy with OM, or the family she has with you.
Get working on filing those papers, that will make it even clearer to her.

And tell OMBW!!!!!!!!
This is continuing because obviously, OMBW doesn't know yet. Once she knows, contact between them will end.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 6:36 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
FeelingMN
Member
Member # 32240
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

I wish that I was as strong as you are being when everything was hitting the fan for me. You're making good decisions even though they may be the hardest you've ever made.

Stay strong.


Me 41
fWW 37
DD(19), DS(17), DD(11) (Mine, hers, ours)
Together 14y, Married 12
DDay Aug 2010, 4 mos TT & gaslighting
ONS + EA after 15yr Class reunion out of state

Posts: 267 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Minnesota
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

You are doing great. She's in major damage control and blameshifting mode.

Stay strong. Don't accept less than you deserve.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7694 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

It's amazing that everyone says she is in blame shifting mode. I am not surprised because I have been blamed for our whole marriage falling apart for the past 15 years. Nothing surprises me anymore. 180 here I come. This is the most difficult thing that I have had to go through in my life and I came from a childhood of alcoholism, abuse and cheating. Comes full circle I guess.

Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

(((Cytron)))
You are doing the right thing, and that is putting your and your kids needs first.
You cannot control her, or her actions. I would make her sign the separation agreement thought if she has not.

OM's Wife needs to know, not sure what you said in your FB message to her, so does she know? Or did you just hint at it?

Good for you for getting to your Dr. Did you ask for STD testing while there? If not please do this for your own health and peace of mind.

((((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8592 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

But YOU are not the one cheating!
REMEMBER THAT !

Make sure that the OM's BS knows what is happening to her M.

Your WW is in for a rude awakening when the OM dumps her after his BS finds out.

You will get through this.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

She did not sign the separation agreement and I know she won't sign it now. She said she read it last night while she came home to get some clothes and other things.

Only thing I said in FB message to her was to contact me. She read it and I received a phone call 5 minutes later from a number that I don't know. I was afraid to answer, but if she calls again, I will answer. Someday I will have the courage to talk to her to tell her my side and show her the text messages.


Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

I'm not sure you understand just how important it is to let the OM's BS know about this affair. If she can compel the OM to end this relationship, it will isolate your WW and leave her with no fuck buddy to turn to. You should phone the BW and arrange a meeting if possible.

If your wife does ask for reconciliation then you need to demand she quits her job immediately. She has to be kept away from OM or it will just flare up again. She is deeply in love with this creep and unless you can terminate their affair you will not get your wife back; thats presuming you want her back at all.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Maybe it's time to change the seperation papers to divorce papers.

Oh, and maybe it's time to tell the school where they teach that they have ruined two marriages.

Most A's can't stand the light of day.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

She read it and I received a phone call 5 minutes later from a number that I don't know. I was afraid to answer, but if she calls again, I will answer.

Imagine how much courage it took for her to call the first time. In this day and age many do not leave a message as the call log showing their number is the message "I called". Please take a more active approach. Mail her a letter, call her, something.

She did not sign the separation agreement and I know she won't sign it now.

I do not think she ever intended to sign them. Had you produced them immeadiately, she would have balked. If not, she would have claimed signed under duress or without attorney counsel and had the signature nullified.

Keep taking care of yourself and your kids. Make plans and move forward with your life, I know it is easier said than done.

There is no advantage in telling your WW what she must or should do unless she comes to you statign how sarry and wrong she was, and asking what she can do to try to rebuild the M. Until she is looking to drop the Om and work on the M, anything you tell her to do or not do will fall onto deaf ears, or be "proof" of what a controlling and manpiulative person you are (in her mind).

As for her job, I can understand not wanting your WW to work with the OM if you are trying to work on the M, but if you are headed to D it will be good for her to have a job and income.

The OM's BS really deserves to be informed. She called, you did not pick up, ball is in your court.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4131 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

She did not sign the separation agreement and I know she won't sign it now. She said she read it last night while she came home to get some clothes and other things

You are handling this very well. None of us ever expected to go through this and given that fact you are doing great. You will and have made mistakes, but it a learning process. Keep learning.

You are not to blame for your W's choices. Say that to yourself when you are feeling bad.

Some things you need to do better -

Other BS - It sounds like you have her number - call her and tell her. No FB, no email. Call and tell her. This is not a method of hurting your W or saving your M, but instead it blows up your W's fantasy, which is not good for her and it is the moral choice to tell another person who they really M'd to. Do it NOW. It's hard and it won't be perfect, but do it.

Work with your lawyer on the following:

Your W - Where is your W staying? If she has moving out contact you A and discuss abandonment. She is not putting her kids first, she is putting herself first, its a fact, use it.

Can you afford your home on your own? If so, make plans to do so. Start separating out accounts, credit cards, etc. Remember that your W has 50/50 access to everything. Cut her off - now.

Start a new credit card in your name, tell her and then call and remove your name from all cards you hold jointly.

Start a new savings and checking under your name only. Move half the money to it.

Papers - make sure the separation papers stipulate that the sharing of money and debit burden stop now. Then have her served at school, with a limit on when she must respond.

What kind of support do you have? A male friend or family to talk to. Let someone you trust in and get a RT shoulder to lean on.

Controversial - You know your situation better than any of us, but in my case I told my W's family. I told her friends. They should all know who they are dealing with and for me I got to see who was a real friend and who was just playing.

This all sucks, but the sooner you get serious about moving forward in a clear, strong direct fashion the better off you and your kids will be.

take care...Keep posting...




Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Cytron, at the moment your wife still thinks she can keep the OM in her life. That's why she's not even trying to fight for your marriage. He's still there for her. They are still talking, and right now, that's more important to her. She wants him in her life and she's made her choice known to you and to him.


He hasn't had to do that yet. She is prepared to leave you to still have him. Is he prepared to do that for her? As of yet - he hasn't had to decide if his wife still doesn't know, or doesn't know how serious this really is. If he gaslights his wife, (and your wife) he can still keep them both.


But if you tell the other betrayed wife the extent and depth of the affair (and it is deep - at least on your wife's part - because she really is prepared to leave home for it) then suddenly it's not quite as easy for them to continue on as they are doing now.


The other BW may force OM to make a choice too, and it will probably either end the affair, or end both the marriages. A much more serious proposition and one he may not be prepared to take.


It will suddenly make this very real indeed for the both of them, it will blow the fantasy of you just accepting their 'friendship' and them carrying on as they did before out of the water.


You wife is still too fogged up to drop the OM so she won't be the one ending it - but if he drops her - it may shock her into realising what she's in the process of throwing away.


Of course this is assuming that you even want to try for R at this stage. This may be a deal breaker for you by now. R is a gift the bs sometimes gives the wayward, but it is by no means a right of the wayward. It is your choice to make whether you offer R or not. But if you haven't discounted R, then your best chance of attempting it is to end their affair once and for all. You've got no chance of success at all before that happens - and your best ally in getting that done is the other man's wife.


If the OM does leave his wife, that won't be because you told her - it's because he would have chosen to do that for himself. It would not be you that will be inflicting pain on his wife either, quite the opposite actually, it would be you giving her a chance to fight for her own marriage (if that's what she wants), because right now, your wife has no intention of ending things with that poor lady's husband.


Cytron, I know how hard this is and I want to echo everyone else here who is telling you how well you are doing, because you really are. I think it would be best for you to get yourself some legal advice and representation also in case this turns any more ugly than it already is. Keep strong and you will bring this situation to an end - one way or the other. You have my thoughts.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
whensitover
Member
Member # 31207
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Regardless of if you want your wife back or not, this man has taken so much from your family and his own and his wife deserves to know. The people giving you the advice here know what they are talking about and I hope you listen. Telling her-making her understand-is the ONLY thing that will end the affair if it is to be ended. They won't stop and this will continue. If that is what you want to happen-then just do nothing. But if you want this to end, and you do not want to be a participant in this, then please tell his wife. You had a right to know, and so does she. This is not vengeance, this is justice. His wife needs to know, she needs to be able to make decisions for her own life too!

Posts: 449 | Registered: Feb 2011
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Regardless of if you want your wife back or not, this man has taken so much from your family and his own and his wife deserves to know. The people giving you the advice here know what they are talking about and I hope you listen. Telling her-making her understand-is the ONLY thing that will end the affair if it is to be ended. They won't stop and this will continue. If that is what you want to happen-then just do nothing. But if you want this to end, and you do not want to be a participant in this, then please tell his wife. You had a right to know, and so does she. This is not vengeance, this is justice. His wife needs to know, she needs to be able to make decisions for her own life too!

Whensitover is absolutely right, you know.

This isn't just about you and your pain. There's another BS who - just like you - should be given the TRUTH as you had to learn it. I can't imagine why you were afraid to talk to this woman and wouldn't call her back after sending her a message telling her to call you. While you avoid telling her the TRUTH, her deadbeat husband has been in her ear 24/7 telling her that you're crazy and imagining things and are going to try to lie to her because you're psychotic/jealous/paranoid - whatever.

But the longer you let it go, the less credibility you HAVE.

Call the BS. Do the right thing.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1763 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
WallsAreUp
Member
Member # 36821
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)

You are doing great in spite of the circumstances. Definitely talk to the other BS as it will give you an extra set of eyes watching them.


BH (me) 36
11 year old stepdaughter, 3 year old son
DDay: 9/1/12
Status: Divorced on 1/23/14!

Posts: 66 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Buckeye State
nuance
Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)

If you want to blow away the A fantasy talking to OM's BW should be your priority # 1. You know what time they work. Use that to your advantage.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1209 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Please remember this.

You did not start this.
You did not cause this.
This was foisted on you.
She has had PLENTY of time to plan.
You have not you are still in shock.
It''s not fair
It will never be fair
You have to face this, and function, while you''re still in shock.
It''s not fair.
BUT, you have to put emotion aside and present to her, a fully-competent man.

You goal, at the end of the day, is to have healthy, fully-functioning kids, and to be a mentally healthy man, ready and able to love again, but fully able to protect himself and his family. This may or may not include your WW. That is her decision. She can either join the team or leave the team. But she CANNOT be allowed to make your circle of two into a circle of three, with you as the B Team. (((hugs)))


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4856 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, September 18th (Wednesday)

BUT, you have to put emotion aside and present to her, a fully-competent man.

I am going to disagree with this a little. Don't present her shit. Present it to yourself. Be yourself. Make decisions for yourself. If she wants to come a long for the ride great, if not enjoy the view of her in the your review mirror.

At this point this is about you and YOUR kids. Screw her for a while.

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
2long
New Member
Member # 10570
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Everybody makes s2pid mistakes after d-day.

What I don't understand is why you sat on the info you had for so long while the affair escalated? You might have been able 2 nip this thing in the bud before it got 2 far. Anyway, that's one of those mistakes that some people make.

I think that, whatever you plan 2 do - be it recovery or divorce - you need 2 take a hard line with her. She had an affair (certainly physical, but emotional is bad enough) with a married "friend", so there's no way going forward that she can be friends with him, work with him, or have any kind of contact with him UNLESS both marriages end.

So, pretty much regardless of what happens 2 your marriage, she needs 2 pinch off contact with him for life - and the sooner the better.

Watch what else she does. If she wants 2 stay married, she'll show remorse and want 2 do whatever it takes 2 convince you of that. If she doesn't, well you have your answer.

But that's watching what she does 2 see what she wants. More important is what YOU want. If you want a divorce, don't pussyfoot around playing games. FILE. Get custody of the kids sorted out sooner than quicker, because any routine you set up before the divorce will be hard 2 change later.

-ol' 2long


Posts: 20 | Registered: May 2006 | From: So. Cal
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

t/j
2long,
your name is prophetic 2 your writing.
HBH
end t/j


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Well, 8 days ago tonight, I confronted my spouse about what I found out. We had a 2.5 hour conversation and she spent about 20 minutes of it crying, but only when talking about everything I did wrong to drive her to be close with him....BULLSHIT!!!

She went away until Wednesday night and then came back. We have been in separate beds and doing things pretty much separate, but have had little conversation. The two conversations we did have about what is happening turned into arguments as they always have and I was the one to smooth them over. Ahhh...forgot about the 180 for the first three days. I have put on the 180 face for the past two days, but she was away with kids yesterday and I was with them today. Ignored her otherwise.

I know she has seen a lawyer as I was "shopping" around after an initial consult with one and I was told conflict of interest. This after she told me she would not surprise me. I have a feeling that she is going to get a kick ass attorney that will eat me out of house and home to "pay me back" for everything I have done. Grant it, I contributed 50% to the destruction of our marriage, but she contributed the other 50% plus the affair she had. She maintains that nothing physical happened.

I told her that I am going to continue to go to counseling and if she wants any chance, she will have to go to IC as well. I will not do MC with her as we did it several years ago for four sessions and it was a disaster with her bashing me for the whole hour of each appointment. Don't think I said more than one sentence in four sessions!!!!

She continues to show no true remorse (thinks saying sorry a few times should forgive her ) She will not have NC with him. They work together what are they supposed to do (she says). School teachers in the same building that, oh by the way, my kids will go to in a few years.

She has lied to me about going to a lawyer and continues to build a world of secrecy that seems to be planned and calculated. I don't believe the affair is over, but they are just laying low. I don't believe that OM told his spouse and I don't believe a word she says!!!!

My mind is so messed up because we have been together for 20 years and it has been a rocky 20 years. I love her with all my heart, but I hate her with a passion for what she has done to our family.


Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

(((cytron)))

I am sorry you are in so much pain. Sending you strength.

Please tell OM BW. That is what will change this.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 12:47 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

((((cytron))))

What just about everyone else said, you have gotten some good advice.

Personally, I think that you have done well. I wish I would have been as smart and brave as you were in the beginning. So you made a couple of mistakes. I could spend the rest of the evening list my mistakes.

Take care of yourself and turn to us here if you need some support.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 12:52 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

My mind is so messed up because we have been together for 20 years and it has been a rocky 20 years. I love her with all my heart, but I hate her with a passion for what she has done to our family.

I uttered those same words to my husband while they were in the midst of their A. He of course was denying everything and still hasn't admitted to a PA. One day it will come out.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
reallyscrewedup7
Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

Cytron

You hold the keys to your future. You cling to the notion that you can nice her back into the marriage. If you do not expose, she will come back. If you are nice, she will come back. You cling to a false notion that you can control this.

Sir, you cannot.

The keys are as simple as what people have been telling you. Get that lawyer rolling now. It is not hard to find a kick-ass lawyer, but you have to invest in the effort. YOU HAVE TO EXPOSE. Tell OMBW even though you are afraid of the consequences. You really need to expose to their work (higher a paralegal to send the letter if you can).

I am not saying this will bring her back. I am saying this will allow you to get your feet under you.

Right now, she is killing you knowing you are too afraid to do anything.

Let go of the outcomes, let go of the fear. Detach. And do the things that are best for you and yours.

Strength to you.


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 899 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

Picture this:

You tell the OM BW;

The OM throws your wife under the bus

This causes you wife to come out of the "love" fog and realize what she has done.


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8098 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

Cytron, with your ultra passive approach you are slowly losing your wife. Continue with your indecisiveness and this marriage is as good as over.

You have to attack their relationship; not the individuals but the affair itself. This involves the participation of the OM's wife and maybe your wife's employer; your immediate family etc. Everyday your WW and the OM's attachment grows stronger; if it wasn't for his own marriage your wife would be gone taking the kids with her.

Your 'playing the violin while Rome burns' approach is going to cost you dear. Stop being so passive and do something constructive. Observing this affair grow even more intense by the day is counterproductive. You can bet your WW and the OM have a firm plan of action, while you most certainly do not. Come up with one very soon or you are going to lose your family.

She went away until Wednesday night and then came back
.
Have you asked her where the hell she was for those few days? With the OM?
Have you complained to the school principal that this affair is breaking up your marriage? He might not be able to stop the affair but he most certainly will talk to the offending parties.

Just do something ,for your children's sake if nothing else.

[This message edited by OK now at 7:51 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

Cytron -

I know this stuff is really hard but I don't think you are listening to all of what people have wrote.

Your W has left you. For what ever reason she has started something up and YOU are allowing it to continue. By not telling the other BS you not only take decisions away from her, but you continue to indirectly support your W's A by allowing it to hide in darkness.

My W had and A with someone at work. She said to me, "what can I do, we work together?" I said, well you can stop going to work. Find a new job. Tell him to stop going to work. No communication with him and if you have it tell me. If you lie we are done. Your W is feeding you a line and you are either believing her or simply not acting in your own best interest. Please stop that.

You have said several times that your kids will attend a school where they work. Why? Why can't they move schools, districts, homes? You need to start taking matters into your own hands and stop pretending like you have a M to save. To be frank the only person who can save you M right now it not you, it's your W. She continues to show you who she is and you continue to not listen to it. That said, you can save your own life and make it what you want starting this moment forward. You can't change the past, but you can influence the future of your life and your kids. Please do so positively.

I am all about R, in fact, I am in a pretty good R right now. I think we are going to not only make it, but be really good. I am not jaded. Objectively, when I read what you have written, you need to take matters into your own hands and start doing things that are good for you and your kids.

I love her with all my heart, but I hate her with a passion for what she has done to our family.

I remember those thoughts so vividly they hurt. Let me tell you something. It's bullshit. I stopped loving my W the minute I found out. I didn't start again until she stopped being an asshat and came out of fairy, rainbow, A land. Frankly, why the hell would you love someone who is behaving like such a jerk to you? Lying, cheating and looking for a way to screw you with her lawyer. Don't stand for it. I know it is hard to give up that love, but it's gone and your W is not longer earning your love. She needs to start again before it has any value.

I know the above is harsh, but when I showed up on these boards I was acting very similar to you. It wasn't until I did 5 things that anything changed for me:

1) Break up the A. I told the other BS, I confronted OM and told him the take a hike or I would come find him and I told my W's family and friends. Find out who your real friends are and stick by them. It's throw down time.

2) Explained to my W that NC was not an option if she wants to live in a house with me. Papers for D in hand I looked at her and said OM or me. I told her that I wanted our M and our family intact, but will not accept them being together, communicating or anything else.

3) Started making a plan to get my kids, money and life away from those crazy people (W and OM). I found a place to live, considered where my kids would attend school and what I wanted for them and myself. I started my own bank accounts. I got my own credit cards. I severed as many joint things I had with my W as possible and started to stock pile cash. Talk to your lawyer. Get a plan together and execute it.

4) Looking out for myself and my kids only. They are your world now. They are your family. Take care of yourself, start a new hobby, exercise, drink water, get in shape. Make a calendar for the next couple of months. Fill up everyday with the things you need to do with and for your kids. Go to appointments, coach them in sports, pick them up from day care, read to them every night, be there when they wake up every day you can, in short, be the central person in there life. The rest of the time focus on what you want.

5) Stop being afraid. Make a realistic plan and execute it for you and them. You will make mistakes. You will not be perfect. That said, an organized mind and plan will carry you a long way to what you want. Don't be afraid, act.

Keep all the above on the level. Nothing illegal or mean. Just look out for you and your kids.

You can so this. You can make your own future with or without her. Stop wishing for things to be how you want them and instead look at them for how they are. Then enjoy the things you like about your situations and make a plan to change the things you don't.

Take charge. Be yourself and take responsibility for the one person you can control - yourself.

I fully recognize this is really hard to do when looking through the lens of pain, shock and change. I can't say I have felt exactly what you are feeling, but trust me on this one, I have been in a similar spot. It is very hard to accept what is happening is real. It is, real however. Very real, and it is critical that you start treating it that way.

Tell the BS, make a plan for you and yours kids with your lawyer, take charge of your own life. If you W wises up and comes back great, if not screw her.

take care of yourself....



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

Great post Wert.

Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Long Gone
Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

I was going to post something......then read WERTs post

What Wert said...

Especially #5.....I was there...for about 5 mins and then I went hiroshima and nuked the A. It went from trying to salvage the fantasy world they were holding on to with both hands to scrambling like vampires in the sunlight.....it destroyed the A.....


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 767 | Registered: Jun 2011
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

Just thought I would ask you to read the 522 [currently] posts concerning the tragedy in allatsea's marriage. You will be reading your probable future.

Your wife hates you, [I don't think hate is too strong of a word]. She blames you for everything bad that has happened to her since the very day you met. She wants to leave you to set up a love nest with the OM and she will rape you financially and try and arrange full custody of the kids with restricted visitation. Read allatseas posts and be afraid.

However its not too late if you act now. He has a wife and child and may be hesitant to leave them. Hope so for your sake; could be the lifebelt for rescuing your marriage and forcing your WW to turn back to her family.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, September 23rd (Monday)

Well went to lawyer for the second time and told her everything that has happened including her seeing a lawyer as I found out.

Lawyer seems pretty good and comes with good reviews from a co-worker. She is giving me a good discount she is friends with my co-worker. I did not give her a final decision whether or not I am filing, but I feel good about what I did today.

My counselor is in amazement that I don't file and she realizes that after only 8 visits that my life has been hell for 20 years while I have been treated like dirt.

Again, no remorse today and I am really starting to believe what everyone is saying on this forum. No loving spouse who wants their marriage would act like she is doing.

Still deciding about other BS, but pretty sure I am going to visit her house soon.


Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, September 23rd (Monday)

Cytron, The cruelty of the WW can be beyond comprehension. When their emotional loyalty swings over to the OM, who of course is without fault, they can carry out acts of vicious nastiness that boggles the mind.

I've heard of women accusing BH's of sexual molestation to their daughter just to gain custody. A friend of mine was accused of doing this to his daughter; the subsequent court case destroyed him financially and in the end he had to give signed permission for his evil wife to take his child 2000 miles away to Phoenix just to get her to drop the false charges.
He never saw his baby girl again.

You need the OM's BS. You may not intend to stay with your WW, but breaking up this affair will isolate your wife and make her far more easy to deal with.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Chicky
Member
Member # 18622
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, September 23rd (Monday)

Still deciding about other BS, but pretty sure I am going to visit her house soon.

And while you're being all considerate and trying to "decide", HER husband and YOUR wife are decimating what's left of your life as you know it.


Half of the truth is a WHOLE lie.

Posts: 550 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Somewhere Over The Rainbow
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)

Cytron - I get not being sure about telling the AP's spouse, but step back a second. Lets evaluate this, were you compeltely blindsided? Didn't you think things were off even for your broken relationship?

I know I did, and sure as hell would have loved someone giving me proof sooner than I was able to get it on my own. I would have loved a phone call from OW's spouse saying my wife is having an A with your H....

When I finally had my proof, I felt such a huge relief. I finally had proof that I wasn't crazy, I wasn't loosing my mind, I wasn't the bad mom, wife, housekeeper, cook, whatever he decided to destroy my self confidence about that day. I knew something was up for MONTHS!!!! I begged, I pleaded, I cried, I did anything I could to get my H to either come clean, or just file. I was ready to end it, I had seen an attorney to find out what if I filed how it would effect me, find out what to expect financially, who would get CS, custody, all of it. I was that close. If that poor woman is going through the same hell, isn't it just the kind decent human thing to do to tell her?

I lost 30 pounds, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, developed muliple health issues from the stress. It sure would have been nice to prevent all of that.

I'm not trying to guilt you, just to help you understand, you aren't hurting her anymore than she already is feeling, you are giving her what she needs so that she can move forward and have a decent life again too.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8592 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)

Cytron-- Very gently, I know it's hard, but you have to muster up all your courage and tell the OBS.

Maybe you don't want to hurt her... You aren't. She is already hurt. Her WH hurt her. She deserves better than to keep being deceived and feeling like she's losing her mind. You have the opportunity here to help both of your M get on a road to relief and healing. Right now the situation just continues to spiral downward. Just push the spiral all the way to the bottom, so you can ALL start reversing the direction.

Please, can you share with us why you resist telling her? Everyone on here is giving you the same advice, so PLEASE understand that maybe we are all right. It needs to be done. Despite your fear. Maybe if you tell us what is stopping you, someone may come along with the right words of encouragement. OK?

Wishing you all the best. We understand how much pain you are in. We are trying to help!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 691 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)

(((cytron)))
What is holding you back from telling OM BW?
We all are here for you & have your back. Sending you hugs & strength.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1393 | Registered: Dec 2012
ItsNotUitsMe
Member
Member # 21966
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)

It is quite clear that the posters here feel very passionate about you telling the OMís BS immediately. There are lots of theories why you need to do this. Some I agree with, some not so much, but it is my personal feeling that in nearly all situations it is the absolute right thing to do, no matter what your personal motivation is to do it. If for no other reason, it is simply an act of human kindness.

You have indicated that you do intend to contact her, but you are struggling on the how and when. You have even made an attempt to contact her and then didnít answer the phone when you thought it might be her. (btw, still donít know if it was her calling or not) And your last post mentioned that you may go to her house to do it. So itís clear to me that you know you have to, and want to, tell the other BS. Also, from your background, I suspect that you can very likely have some co-dependency issues. I feel like your hesitation has a lot to do with your compassion and putting other peopleís feelings and needs before your own. Think about it, and make sure that you are not hesitating because you are more concerned for the other BS, than yourself.

Youíve mentioned multiple times in your posts, that you are always doing what is best for others, and you are struggling with all you have had to do and process these past couple of weeks and try to stay focused and do what is best for you. From here, it looks like you are doing a fine job of keeping it together despite the horrible circumstances and the self-doubt that can plague a person when going through something like this. Lawyer, IC, and taking care of the kids. And no matter what the outcome and where you are heading, the advice is always the same, take care of yourself. So if you feel like you need more time to process, digest, and take a breath, please do that. I know you will talk to the other BS, when the time is right for you. And I wanted to let you know that it is ok. YOU will be ok.


Posts: 1033 | Registered: Dec 2008
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Its possible that Cytron thinks that if the OM's wife kicks him out and files for divorce, then OM will be free to live with WW and kids. If however the BW doesn't know, then this keeps the affair at low key and unlikely to develop further. For the time being.

I agree that this does freeze the affair, or you could say delays the outcome, because the BW will find out eventually and all that is bought is time. I suppose the same reasoning is applied to not informing WW's employer.

If indeed you have bought some time Cytron, what are you going to do with it?


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
whensitover
Member
Member # 31207
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

The ONLY thing that is going to be your salvation-is to to TELL the AP wife. Period. You are participating IN this affair whether you wanted to, or intended to, you are. These people here know their stuff, they have seen it all, and if they tell you, that telling the AP wife,is gonna bust up this party, then it WILL BUST UP THE PARTY. Isn't that what you want?? I mean....do you want to hand deliver your wife to this man? Do you want to allow them all this time and privacy to make their plans and get their lives together in order so they can clean you out of house and home and destroy your family and HIS family too? Because that is what you are doing. If you aren't bucking their plans-then you are going along with them. I can promise you, if this man wanted your wife...he would have already moved out, he hasn't moved out and started over with your wife because HIS wife knows NOTHING. He is holding out hoping your wife just lets him cake eat a little longer. TELL HER. It's not fair to her. Sending you STRENGTH!!!

Posts: 449 | Registered: Feb 2011
allhopegone
Member
Member # 37465
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

You have a private message

Posts: 91 | Registered: Nov 2012
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Cytron,

Please file and separate for your sanity. Your WW is toxic and sounds like she has a personality disorder. Let the lawyer guide you. I know you love her, or have loved her but never let yourself be treated this way. Not for another moment. Detach. (I know that's hard) Step away from her. Let her go so you can get your core strength back and be the best dad you can be for your kids. I am so sorry you have lost your wife. It's a terrible thing. But there is life after all this horror. It does get better. But you have to take good care of yourself and not tolerate this type of treatment.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. Now I am living alone in the beautiful rural property that was once the dream retreat with X. It's taking a long time to create new dreams but despite some struggles I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5833 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
cytron
New Member
Member # 40550
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Just an update for all those who showed their concern to me over the past two months:

Honestly the past three weeks has been the happiest I have been for awhile. I have reconnected with some old friends while perfecting the 180. I have not spoken to OW wife yet, but I will. I have completely ignored my WS and really enjoyed time with my kids and my time alone as well.

Telling her on Friday that I want this to become permanent and we need to start divorce proceedings.


Posts: 28 | Registered: Sep 2013
ItsNotUitsMe
Member
Member # 21966
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Glad to see your update and things are going well for you considering the circumstances.

There will be more ups and downs for sure but taking the time to get yourself focused on the important things like your kids and being good to yourself is a great way to spend your time before the storm. Just know that you will be ok. And keep us posted.


Posts: 1033 | Registered: Dec 2008
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Telling her on Friday that I want this to become permanent and we need to start divorce proceedings.
After telling your wife this and reminding her the marriage is over and she is welcome to the OM, NOW is the time to tell the OW. If she forgives her sleazeball husband, then your wife will find herself wriggling under the bus she got thrown under, and things should turn very interesting after that.

Good luck and stay tough.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Cytron
Sounds like you made your decision.
I hope you tell the AP BS soon.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Thanks for the update cytron. The 180 can work wonders freeing us from the drama of a WS. Be prepared for ups and downs (we call it the rollercoaster) as you progress down your new path.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4131 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
overandone
Member
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I'm very glad you seem to be doing OK and have made your decision about where things go next.

It's the first time I've replied to your post, you seem to be getting some good advice her. BUT......

2 months in and you still haven't told the other BS???

The longer you leave it the harder it will be. Wouldn't you have wanted to know straight away if she had found out first?

I was in total shock when I first found e-mail evidence of my H's LTA with someone we knew pretty well. I still remember making that first phone call to the other BS. He,like me,hadn't a clue what had been going on. I was shaking like a leaf, could hardly get the words out, the most difficult phone call I'd ever made. And agreed to see him the next day to give him copies of the e-mails so that he would be in the picture as much as I was. I probably shouldn't have been driving,having had no sleep the previous night, but no way was I going to keep him in the dark. Nothing to do with helping stop the affair, as my H had put a stop to it months before d-day. Just that he had a right to know, and if I hadn't told him I would have been complicit in Helping them keep their grubby little secrets. It also enabled him to understand why things had gone so pear-shaped in their marriage - the timing was spot-on.

Come on, don't leave it any longer, just tell her.


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 227 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I still remember making that first phone call to the other BS. He,like me,hadn't a clue what had been going on. I was shaking like a leaf, could hardly get the words out, the most difficult phone call I'd ever made. And agreed to see him the next day to give him copies of the e-mails so that he would be in the picture as much as I was. I probably shouldn't have been driving,having had no sleep the previous night, but no way was I going to keep him in the dark. Nothing to do with helping stop the affair, as my H had put a stop to it months before d-day. Just that he had a right to know, and if I hadn't told him I would have been complicit in Helping them keep their grubby little secrets. It also enabled him to understand why things had gone so pear-shaped in their marriage - the timing was spot-on.

^^^Yep. Word for word how I felt. And yes the BW I talked to was being traumatized by an unhappy M that she could not understand. She was suffering prior to my call. Yes, she suffered from my call, but she now KNEW what was behind the many, many months of pain. She was able to take control of her life...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:49 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Topic Posts: 95