SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Divorce/Separation
User Topic: Narcissist Lightbulb
erzulie
Member
Member # 3293
Shocked  Posted: 6:56 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652

Holy crap ... this is HIM.

Entirely.

How did I miss this before?!?

The whole nine yards.

The lack of empathy, the (unhealthy) need for ego strokes, the self-destruction.

I can't help him. How slim are the chances he can truly help himself?

Would love to hear other's experiences ...


A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.


Posts: 3377 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Head down to the NPD thread in I Can Relate. There are lots of experienced people there who understand and can help you.

Posts: 11754 | Registered: Mar 2008
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

And here I thought it was the Narcissist lightbulb joke...

How many narcissists does it take to screw in a light bulb?


Just one. He holds the light bulb up and waits for the world to revolve around him.

[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 7:02 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5861 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

@ caregiver!! It's funny because it's true!

Posts: 11754 | Registered: Mar 2008
wontdefineme
Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Because:

When to see a doctor
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may not want to think that anything could be wrong — doing so wouldn't fit with your self-image of power and perfection. But by definition, a narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of your life, such as relationships, work, school or your financial affairs. You may be generally unhappy and confused by a mix of seemingly contradictory emotions. Others may not enjoy being around you, and you may find your relationships unfulfilling.


And this

Causes
By Mayo Clinic staff
It's not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the cause is likely complex. The cause may be linked to a dysfunctional childhood, such as excessive pampering, extremely high expectations, abuse or neglect. It's also possible that genetics or psychobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking — plays a role in the development of narcissistic personality disorder.

Yes go to the forum, it helped me as npds are a whole other class of jerks who cheat.

[This message edited by wontdefineme at 7:06 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2175 | Registered: Mar 2011
Pass
Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Yep, that sounds exactly like The Princess. Sadly, I was only too happy to help with this part: "Expecting constant praise and admiration".

She didn't need to expect it because my sorry ass was only too willing to provide it - and probably would have continued to if I hadn't discovered what a liar and cheater she is.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 2112 | Registered: Jan 2013
gypsybird87
Member
Member # 39193
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Love the joke! Must remember that one....

My XWH is this exactly too. Cheaters are all basically corrupt, IMO, but the remorseless NPD type like mine are a whole other class that can barely be called human. How they function when they literally have NO self, and NO soul... is just beyond me. Part of me still hates him and part of me feels pity for him, since I know he's probably never going to be truly happy, and is going to spend the rest of his miserable life wondering WHY he can't be happy and having no clue how utterly fucked up he is. Mostly I feel bad for his family, especially his five kids. I'm free of him and his destructive ways, they are not and never will be. It's sad.

When I realized this was my XWH's issue, I checked out the NPD thread, and honestly I just felt kind of lost in there. Everyone there seemed to know each other already and there were lots of inside joke type postings. If anyone from that thread could advise me on trying to get involved, that would be great.

In the meantime, I found an awesome book called "Narcissistic Lovers: How to Cope, Recover and Move On" by Cynthia Zayn and Kevin Dibble. I got it from Amazon and it's been really helpful. You might check it out.

[This message edited by gypsybird87 at 8:31 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]


Me: Enjoying life
Him: Someone else's problem

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. ~ Anais Nin


Posts: 919 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Oregon
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

I've just been sitting back, waiting for you to make the connection. I figured you'd get there sooner rather than later once he started hammering on you about the dogs.

Website for you: Out of the Fog

Book for you: One Mom's Battle (great FB page, too)

You don't know what hell is until you try leaving someone with NPD or strong NPD tendencies. Be thankful you don't have children.

Never EVER mention the word narcissist or NPD to anyone. Not your lawyer, not your boss or pastor or counselor. You should describe your STBX's behavior, but you must let them draw their own conclusion about what's wrong with him.

The sooner you get away from him, the better.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9828 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
sparkysable
Member
Member # 3703
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

How slim are the chances he can truly help himself?
The chances are pretty much non existent. My counselor told me even he would need inpatient, intensive therapy. And even then, it probably would not help. The only thing you can do is get him out of your life so he can stop slowly draining your soul.


D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010

Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.


Posts: 3416 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

And here I thought it was the Narcissist lightbulb joke...
How many narcissists does it take to screw in a light bulb?


Just one. He holds the light bulb up and waits for the world to revolve around him.

And when this doesn't work, he blames his ex wife!


Posts: 1702 | Registered: Oct 2011
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

And when this doesn't work, he blames his ex wife!

And it's her fault the bulb burned out, too.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9828 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

*sigh* Gotta' laugh to keep from crying, sometimes.


Posts: 11754 | Registered: Mar 2008
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

He invented the light bulb, ya know?


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5861 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Ah, we could go on all night!

Anyhow, two other book recommendations:

Splitting: How to Protect Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists


Posts: 1702 | Registered: Oct 2011
Catwoman
Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Erz,

As you know, I deal with a diagnosed narcissist (and for the record, the joke about the lightbulb is in the quote thread).

It is absolutely soul-sucking. They are relentless in their quest for validation (ego-kibbles, someone once called it). They use and manipulate and use again and see nothing wrong with it. The things that they do make those of us who are normally wired cringe give them nary a twinge.

Www.outofthefog.net is another good resource.

This is a rough ride--not only do you get the cheating, but you get the lack of remorse and having the person ou once considered a loving spouse become an enemy you cannot recognize.

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29667 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

The thing that makes all the jokes about the N's funny to me is that they are "true." Instead of being sad and horrified all the time, laughing at the N is my way of taking the power out of the fear. It is like turning on the light bulb and refusing to be afraid of the dark.

There are a lot of jokes about N's. The ones that come closest to the behavior I see are the ones I remember.

Here are a couple more:

What's a narcissist's idea of hard work?

Arranging for lots of people to do all the chores.


Why does a N think it is okay to break a promise?

It belongs to him. He can break it if he wants to.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5861 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
ruinedandbroken
Member
Member # 29250
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

I can't help him. How slim are the chances he can truly help himself?

What is it that Dr. Phil says? "You can't fix what you don't acknowledge?"

How many narcisstic people are going to acknowledge that trait in themselves? My guess would be close to zero.

Focus on yourself and YOUR happiness. He doesn't matter anymore.


“People who cheat feel that life is for the taking, and that everyone deserves happiness no matter what the cost. I must remember these tricks if I ever have my soul surgically removed."
Me: BS 42. Him: WH 41 2 Kids 6&9
Married 14 yrs Together 21

Posts: 1575 | Registered: Aug 2010
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

How many narcisstic people are going to acknowledge that trait in themselves? My guess would be close to zero.

BINGO!

I think most of us who have read my many descriptions of my STBX would agree that he's fairly high up there on the N scale. And yet when asked in counseling and in conversation and in the parenting eval if he thought he should seek help or get IC, he always answered no. Nope. Doesn't need it. Doesn't want it. There's nothing wrong. There is no problem. Everyone else has a problem, not him.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9828 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
erzulie
Member
Member # 3293
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

I have so many light bulbs going off right now, I need dark sunglasses.

So many things make so much sense - things that utterly befuddled me thus far. His sense of entitlement. His inability to acknowledge my emotions (except when I remind him that I have them - then he just gets dramatic). His self-destructive choices. His intimacy-aversion or avoidance. His self-effacing need for admiration - even from unadmirable sources. His reinvention of our history. His broken ego. His sabotage of stability. And on, and on ....

SO many things make crystal-clear sense to me now.

I never would have been enough; he is driven by a broken, self-destructive ego that craves unhealthy validation at all costs.

All in all ... it makes me sad for him. He robbed himself of an amazing, blissful life.

At least now, though, I am starting to understand why ...


A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.


Posts: 3377 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California
Housefulloflove
Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

Cheaters are all basically corrupt, IMO, but the remorseless NPD type like mine are a whole other class that can barely be called human.

This! When I started reading about NPD (particularly the info about the covert kind) it was like reading something specifically about my ex. It was freaky as hell but they tend to have very rigid and similar responses to things. They are missing huge chunks of what makes up the human experience like empathy and introspection.

They have one focus and ONE focus only and that is to maintain the image of themselves they created in their mind. Everything they do is to support that false self they created and it warps them into twisted creatures that suck the life out of everyone misfortunate enough to be their primary supply. When reality and that image grows further and further apart they get nastier and more delusional to keep that truth from themselves. Learning all that made it easier to see that a life with him would never be fulfilling whether he one day acts remorseful and like the guy I *thought* he was or if "Mr. Good Guy" never shows up again.

It's so hard to understand how a person can live the way they do. But trying to understand helped me SO much in detaching from my ex. It helped me to understand that my feelings don't matter to him, never have and never will because he doesn't see me as a person, just a useful (but malfunctioning) extension of himself. For him, logic is only applicable to him if it supports the views he already has. I can't live with an irrational POS like that and my kids deserve better than to be at the mercy of his whims. They have lost so much this year like the family unit they knew for their entire existence to the house that was supposed to be their home for a very long time. They lost friends, security, cried many tears and are still dealing with shit no one their age should have to deal with. He doesn't give a shit. Their feelings, like mine, are not on his radar.

Reality to a narc is whatever supports their warped view of themselves. Anything that contradicts that is ignored or invalidated by any means necessary.

I couldn't understand how my husband of 10 years turned into an unrecognizable beast overnight. I had people suggest to me it was a brain tumor, a psychotic break, extreme reactions to guilt etc. Until I began reading about NPD I held on to the hope that as quickly as this evil thing appeared, it could turn back into the man I thought I married. But now I know that this thing is the man I married. This is really him underneath the mask he wears. Underneath the mask of a very needy "good guy" is this hideous thing with no empathy. I still struggle with it all and I'm sure I will for a long time. I get that he hates himself and I understand why he hides himself (the asshole underneath is not praiseworthy in the slightest) but I still struggle with understanding why he won't acknowledge and CHANGE himself. I think that is the most perplexing thing to me. It takes SOOOO much effort to maintain an image so opposite of what you are so wouldn't it be a million times easier to just BECOME that image to let that act go?

I know I'll never truly understand him because it's all so damn illogical so all I can do is except that he isn't what I want or deserve, detach and remove him from my life as much as I can considering we have children together. I don't regret my children but I regret choosing him to father them. I wish I could cut him out of my life entirely and never see or hear from him again.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 11:11 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, September 19th (Thursday)

Welcome to the NPD Survivors Club-
We call ourselves The Tribe.

Learning about narcs will cause light bulbs to go off for years as more and more research is available. I still find new information available almost everyday. The narc has no boundaries so they can go very low on order to win at all costs-people are not treated any differently then furniture. Manipulation is a minor league game plan for them. Anything that you value can and will be used against you to obtain obedience and narcissistic supply.

Be prepared for a very extreme roller coaster ride.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5284 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, September 19th (Thursday)

I couldn't understand how my husband of 10 years turned into an unrecognizable beast overnight. I had people suggest to me it was a brain tumor, a psychotic break, extreme reactions to guilt etc. Until I began reading about NPD I held on to the hope that as quickly as this evil thing appeared, it could turn back into the man I thought I married. But now I know that this thing is the man I married. This is really him underneath the mask he wears. Underneath the mask of a very needy "good guy" is this hideous thing with no empathy. I still struggle with it all and I'm sure I will for a long time. I get that he hates himself and I understand why he hides himself (the asshole underneath is not praiseworthy in the slightest) but I still struggle with understanding why he won't acknowledge and CHANGE himself. I think that is the most perplexing thing to me. It takes SOOOO much effort to maintain an image so opposite of what you are so wouldn't it be a million times easier to just BECOME that image to let that act go?

Welcome to my life.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Too_Trusting
Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, September 19th (Thursday)

Erzulie,

My exWH was also diagnosed NPD. And, he was also SA. I see sooooo many similarities to your H with lack of remorse, inability to form truly intimate relationships, attempts at manipulation by a master, etc., etc., etc.

Underneath it all, I KNEW my exH would NEVER do the hard work to even get in recovery from his SA. After all, the normal rules of society don't apply to the superior NPD. He went to a counselor for 2 sessions. He actually thought the "drive to succeed, even at the expense of others" was a GOOD trait.

Counselors and psychiatrists will often say that the NPD truly can't be helped because they are always seeking to prove their superiority even in therapy. They try to out-wit and out-think the therapist. Everything is a game to them; one that must be won at all costs so their superiority remains intact.

You are well-rid of him with this realization. A life with him will only bring further heartbreak. And yes, this issue with the dogs is just another effort to manipulate you and WIN.

Huge Hugs....


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2482 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
sleepless34
Member
Member # 40274
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, September 19th (Thursday)

House full of love,
Your story is so similar. I really like your insight when you said "

But now I know that this thing is the man I married. This is really him underneath the mask he wears. Underneath the mask of a very needy "good guy" is this hideous thing with no empathy. I still struggle with it all and I'm sure I will for a long time. I get that he hates himself and I understand why he hides himself (the asshole underneath is not praiseworthy in the slightest) but I still struggle with understanding"

This is where I am at now. I can't communicate- which we do only about the kids- with someone who is so insane and so delusional. He is so far gone, still thinking it is not what HE did- but my reaction to what HE did that is the problem....


SIGH....


Me BW- 40ish, awesome
Cheating scusband 40ish
2 kids, elementary school age
Bomb dropped Aug 4 out of nowhere...

Posts: 443 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Hell
sleepless34
Member
Member # 40274
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, September 19th (Thursday)

House full of love,
Your story is so similar. I really like your insight when you said "

But now I know that this thing is the man I married. This is really him underneath the mask he wears. Underneath the mask of a very needy "good guy" is this hideous thing with no empathy. I still struggle with it all and I'm sure I will for a long time. I get that he hates himself and I understand why he hides himself (the asshole underneath is not praiseworthy in the slightest) but I still struggle with understanding"

This is where I am at now. I can't communicate- which we do only about the kids- with someone who is so insane and so delusional. He is so far gone, still thinking it is not what HE did- but my reaction to what HE did that is the problem....


SIGH....


Me BW- 40ish, awesome
Cheating scusband 40ish
2 kids, elementary school age
Bomb dropped Aug 4 out of nowhere...

Posts: 443 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Hell
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, September 19th (Thursday)

Yep, that sounds exactly like The Princess. Sadly, I was only too happy to help with this part: "Expecting constant praise and admiration".
She didn't need to expect it because my sorry ass was only too willing to provide it - and probably would have continued to if I hadn't discovered what a liar and cheater she is.

^^^

You're describing my situation and marriage to a tee...Who knew love and praise were so destructive?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1627 | Registered: Dec 2012
Housefulloflove
Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, September 19th (Thursday)

He is so far gone, still thinking it is not what HE did- but my reaction to what HE did that is the problem....

I could write (actually I probably have written) the exact same thing. I finally stopped trying. I just wrote a post showing how completely delusional my ex is even now, months later and on the day we stand stand in front of a judge. He still blames me and has no apologies.


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
jackfish
Member
Member # 40257
Wink  Posted: 1:14 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

Great great great topic guys! The posts and information on this subject is exactly why I'm not saving my marriage and just letting go. I WANT to stay married to the REAL her, but this messed up personality/behavior/character can only be fixed by the one who carries it. If she REALLY wanted my help with FULL remorse, of course I'd give it a shot. But right now, that's not her. Fixing or saving a marriage when one or both parties just need to work on things and forgive, etc etc....ok, fine. But with a PD...now that's a whole different ball-game. I have accepted the fact that she needs to hit a point in her life where SHE needs to come to terms with this "problem". Whether it takes months, years, or decades, I'm sure at some point, she'll come full circle. well, maybe. All I know is I was great to her in marriage/friendship/love and now the blinders are slowly coming off of me and understanding her PDs, low esteem, etc. It was NOTHING I alone could "fix" . This brings me some peace when letting go. It was that damn vow of "better or worse, sickness and health" that made me feel like I had to try anything and hang on over the years. But, in reality, letter her go IS helping her! No more Jackfish being 10 feet away to solve everything, enable her, no more blame, or walking on eggshells. That person 10 feet away everyday is the enemy you know! ;)

Letting go of a a person with PD IS a type of therapy for them, I guess.

As I've said in other posts, I do still and always will love, unconditionally, the "buried deep inside" person I knew from time to time. But this "thing" that has possessed her now, the two of them need to do battle.

Interesting story (PD related). Recently, my FIL told me his ex (my deceased MIL) did similar stuff (around 40ish) and left him (adultery too) and lived with OM for several years. I knew OM when he was with my MIL, and after awhile, he had enuf of MIL and they split. MIL was an alc-y and eventually died (alone) from it, but she too was narcissistic and had PD's...BigTime!. The interesting thing, and the point of this paragraph is, the FIL told me that after MIL and OM split, FIL and MIL met and spent some casual time together, roughly 10 years after their split (I did not know this, lol). She told him that "leaving him was a mistake", and she apologized for it! FIL told me he/she wanted to get back together cuz they still loved each other, but she was also a bad alcoholic and FIL instinctively knew better. Not just the alcohol, but try trusting a messed up late 40s alc-y! Amazing that the "buried deep inside" person (sober) in the MIL told her Ex this.
Sadly, it's deja-vu here for wife and I, but at least she's not an alcoholic. Early life esteem and events DO have an affect on adults too folks.

Have to Edit to add this: Once the Fantasy of her and Loser wears off, oh to be a fly on the wall when he gets all of her baggage, etc. It may take awhile, but I know she'll display it all at her finest. Maybe he'll be a sucker like me! But gees, can she continue to pull this crap till she's in her Golden Years???

[This message edited by jackfish at 1:34 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


Posts: 88 | Registered: Aug 2013
gypsybird87
Member
Member # 39193
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

Reality to a narc is whatever supports their warped view of themselves. Anything that contradicts that is ignored or invalidated by any means necessary.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. The instant I was no longer on board with his imaginary reality, (as I started to see the cracks in it), I was devalued, dehumanized, replaced, and then discarded without so much as a backward glance.

NPD's have no real soul, instead they are centered around a black hole of insecure neediness that will never, ever be filled.


Me: Enjoying life
Him: Someone else's problem

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. ~ Anais Nin


Posts: 919 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Oregon
erzulie
Member
Member # 3293
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

He is so far gone, still thinking it is not what HE did- but my reaction to what HE did that is the problem....

This comment really struck me.

In therapy, he used his "words" ... talked about how it was his fault, how I was blameless, etc., etc. All sounds good and remorseful, right?

Then, I asked a question. Given that he even mentioned in his emails to his married affair partners, that his "perfect match" was "someone who had as much to lose as he did" ... I assumed he did understand the risks he was taking. So, I asked him ... "what did you expect I would do, if I found out?"

I didn't really get a clear, lucid answer, but it was absolutely apparent to me that my reaction was a surprise to him. It really befuddles me. Did he think I would just invite him home, we could "talk it out", all would be okay, I would "help him with his issues?"

HE FUCKING DESTROYED ME. But seems totally ignorant of the fact that I am affected in the slightest. And now, it is going to become more and more my fault, I guess, because I am standing my ground and not letting him near me or the dogs, and not contacting him at all.

Mind boggling.

I guess if I just swept it under the rug, all would be fine, right?


A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.


Posts: 3377 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California
Too_Trusting
Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

So, I asked him ... "what did you expect I would do, if I found out?"

I asked my exWH a similar question in the "how could you" kind of vein. His response was:

"I had hoped you would never have to know."

WTF? Like not knowing makes it OK?? In NPD land, where normal rules don't apply to them, I guess that kind of logic works. In the real world of morals, values, and commitment to marriage? Well, not so much. That's why I proceeded full-speed ahead to D and never, ever, even once considered R.


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2482 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
gypsybird87
Member
Member # 39193
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

So, I asked him ... "what did you expect I would do, if I found out?"
I asked my exWH a similar question in the "how could you" kind of vein. His response was:

"I had hoped you would never have to know."


Same here. I asked him how long he was planning to let the A go on, had I not found the proof I did and confronted him with it. His response was that he was planning to let our fights escalate (which they definitely WERE, since I knew I was being lied to but didn't then know why), until *I* said enough was enough and demanded a divorce. Then he would leave, get with her, and I would supposedly never know that he'd been cheating for nearly a year.

Seriously. This was his plan. He'd already emotionally left, was "in love" with her, sleeping with BOTH of us, and treating me worse and worse. Pushing the boundaries daily of not answering the phone, not coming home until late, telling more blatant lies, picking fights, being and absolutely cruel ass to me... and just waiting (probably very impatiently) for me to get sick of it and throw in the towel. I think he was shocked and annoyed at how long I hung in there, crying, pleading, going to MC (alone), stupidly still trying to save a marriage that actually no longer existed.

This is what disgusts me most about him: the fact that he did everything he did, and was too much of a COWARD to end it himself.


Me: Enjoying life
Him: Someone else's problem

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. ~ Anais Nin


Posts: 919 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Oregon
erzulie
Member
Member # 3293
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

"I had hoped you would never have to know."

While these weren't the words he used, this was definitely the look on his face.

Which is ironic, given that he articulated to these women how much he had to lose. I wonder if he even believed that himself.

I still have nightmares about one of those women's jealous husbands coming to my house with a gun. Not only did he risk me catching an STD, he risked me AND my dogs with his selfish idiocy and broken ego.

I will forgive many things in this life, but never that.


A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.


Posts: 3377 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

So very much to say on this topic. This is Perv/Happy Pants to a T. Once I learned some of this, I can get around him better, which is to say, with less emotional trouble for myself during interactions.

The first thing that struck me on this thread is that yes, there are causes for NPD and reasons why one person has it and another doesn't. My siblings have it and I don't, for instance. One parent has it but one doesn't. We grew up with an NPD parent and a totalitarian controlling parent who both told each other, "GFY: Go Fix Yourself and then come back!"

But since each decided the other was wrong, 30 years went by and nothing got fixed-then kids came and made it worse. Anyway...

Two years of counseling and three different ones have told me that narcissism stems from parenting and the culture in a child's house as they are growing up. This matches Perv too, because things were simply handed to him and praise was given for doing not much of anything.

In my growing up house, praise was hard won and it was damn hard to earn any praise or anything I wanted. To this day with one parent, it is that way. And so I turned out to be an adult with many boundaries who expects people to show me the same, where Perv/HP has basically zero boundaries and people he "cares for" he thinks should be able to do whatever the hell they want and clean up the mess later-like DD and probably OW.

This is one reason why it is so "easy" to wound their ego, because they can't understand why the universe isn't like their parents were and that's what they expect...unconditional praise, even when in the wrong.

There's much more to say for me on this subject, but I will leave it at that. He's also passive aggressive but I didn't know this until the last year or so and now that I know my way around it, he's actually said, "You've changed since I left!"...yea...I got smarter!

One way that I deal with him that I will add that's very helpful and makes him feel "in charge", is when we need something from him that we can't get anywhere else on the planet, I spend time wording my correspondence so it's not needy.

Then, I give several things instead of just one and leave it kind of multiple choice, or I call open ended so he can think it's him that decided something, when it was me. It's exhausting but has really helped make interactions better and quicker.

The lying I can't get past and some other things, so I just have less and less to do with him and always give my side to other people. They are finding that my replies are the more consistent and he's hurting more of his relationships this way, but that's his choice.

I wish you all well.


Ashland 13

You gave me nothing and now it's all I've got - Bono

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2292 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
sleepless34
Member
Member # 40274
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

Today I went to the therapist that has seen us both, but got a private session. Wow. I didn't think she would give me as much as she did, but she layed it all out. It is both worse and better than I could have hoped.

She saw many things going on with him; including Aspergers, arrested development, and Addiction/addictive personality, self sabotage.

She saw someone with major demons and a very dark side, someone who feel into the rabbit hole and couldn't get out, some one addicted to the feeling of getting away with this secret life, the sex, and felt there is probably much more to his story I don't know. She said he is in a very dark place and you don't want to be there with him. Be thankful this happened and you can break free of it. Wow.

She also told me, along with about a million other people here on SI, that he is completely incapable of understanding the devasation to our family, how bad the betrayal is, the catasptrophe of it all. He can not do it. His aspergers brain does not work that way. I have to stop needing answers, because I will never get any from him.

He is a 13year old boy emotionally,and when a boy does something he is ashamed of and knows is wrong, he says I am sorry and then it is supposed to just be all better. For him, apparently it is that simple. He has even said " I have said I am sorry, what else can I do."

So, the reality is that he was never the man I thought he was. He was hoping he could be that man, pretending to be that man, but he was like a time bomb and self imploded. He had all this darkness and self loathing and unworthiness. He couldn't pretend anymore so he did something so terrible that everyone would have to see the broken down mess that he is,now out in the open.

I still hate him today for playing with our lives like this. He is hanging on to the one good thing he doesn't hate about himself, and that is being a good father. Trying to overcome his own childhood wounds from when his dad left. Maybe someday I will have some compassion for this loser, but I am so angry that he dragged me and my kids into his darkness like this.


Me BW- 40ish, awesome
Cheating scusband 40ish
2 kids, elementary school age
Bomb dropped Aug 4 out of nowhere...

Posts: 443 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Hell
stupidstupidme
Member
Member # 11888
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, September 20th (Friday)

Well, this hits home with me. You know my story well. There is nothing you can do, but get the hell away. You are destroyed now, but I promise one day you will be so thankful you got away when you did, and with your sanity - or what's left of it.

I'm still to blame seven years later, and FT now uses our son to get to me. Me outing him to his new wife is what stopped it - for now.

I know you need to analyze and try to understand, but if he is truly NPD, you never will - he will run you around the mulberry bush until you stop playing, and walk away.


Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing. Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength
August Wilson

Posts: 19732 | Registered: Aug 2006
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, September 20th (Friday)

Such an interesting thread. Like everyone else, everything you all are saying reflects my experience with my NPD STBXWW so identically.

Here is only one small example:

While I was in the throes of my own fog, allowing her to convince me that I was to blame for everything, it occurred to me to ask her a simple question:

"What are you responsible for?"

I will never forget her response:

There was none. She literally just stared at me blankly, puzzled and befuddled. She clearly was incapable of responding to this in any way. I could see that the gears were just not grinding in the same way that normal people's minds would if they were asked such a basic question--particularly in such a dramatic context.

It was like asking a very young child the same question--whose brain is just so immature, simply incapable of understanding the nuances of cause and effect and personal responsibility.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1627 | Registered: Dec 2012
Topic Posts: 37