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User Topic: Well-Spouse Affair Feedback
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, September 20th (Friday)

Hello all.
I am looking to know if any of you have experienced what is called the well spouse affair, either from the perspective of the well spouse or the ill spouse.

In my case, I am the ill spouse and have never been able to keep up with my husband of 7 years sexually. I have been increasingly ill throughout our 12 year relationship. Last year, I was diagnosed with CLL (chronic lymphocytic leukemia). I am 41 and very well preserved. To look at me, one would not think I am sick at all, but unfortunately I have a lifetime of difficulties with pelvic infections, bone and joint pain, fatigue and endometriosis, and now the CLL on top of everything. Quite a bit to handle, and while I lead a very busy life (work full time, play in a band, exercise, travel, etc), I am just not interested in sex more than 1X every week or two.

My husband runs very hot and would like sex every day. He has never been able to adjust to our limits, and isn't particularly interested in anything other than intercourse, so options are quite limited. We have gone through years of counseling both together and independently, and it has helped, but what it can't fix are my unchanging physical limitations.

We have talked at length and feel outside of our sex life, our relationship is strong and we do not wish to divorce.

Last year, we entered into an agreement facilitated by our counselor that he had my permission to pursue an outside relationship as long as kept his priorities focused on me, practiced honesty with me about it, used common sense and was safe, and kept it quiet so neither of us would be embarrassed (as we are both relatively visible people in our social circles).

I know for a fact he is pursuing someone now (because he left his facebook account open to his messages on our shared iPad and there it was) and now that the agreement is in motion, I am feeling very conflicted and sad about it. He seems to be following the guidelines we set, yet I am struggling with my feelings more than I thought I would.

Your perspectives, if any, will be very helpful to me. Thank you.


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
Morhurt
Member
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, September 20th (Friday)

I have no personal experience with a situation like this but it sounds like communication would be very key.

Can you talk to him about how you're feeling now? How it's making you feel now that it's actually happening.

I'm sorry, it sounds very stressful to me.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 924 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, September 20th (Friday)

I'm reluctant to bring it up since I discovered it on accident. I am afraid he will think I purposely snooped. Things have been pretty good between us as of late and I'm loathe to rock the boat, esp. since I haven't been feeling so great.

I am going to talk to our counselor next week to explore options.

Keep the feedback coming, please... and thank you.

[This message edited by MaryContrary at 11:55 AM, September 20th (Friday)]


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
OldCow18
Member
Member # 39670
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, September 20th (Friday)

I'm so sorry you are in this position. I, personally, could never be ok with the agreement, but I guess I'm more of a "in sickness and in health" kind of person. Obviously I haven't walked in your shoes so I don't judge you at all, but wow, I wouldn't be strong enough for that. I hope someone has great advice for you, and again, I'm so sorry you are faced with this.


Me, BW forty something, DD & DS,
Married to WH (49) 11 years, together 16
D-Day 6.8.13

Posts: 620 | Registered: Jun 2013
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, September 20th (Friday)

I am the ill spouse and have never been able to keep up with my husband of 7 years sexually. I have been increasingly ill throughout our 12 year relationship. Last year, I was diagnosed with CLL (chronic lymphocytic leukemia). I am 41 and very well preserved. To look at me, one would not think I am sick at all, but unfortunately I have a lifetime of difficulties with pelvic infections, bone and joint pain, fatigue and endometriosis, and now the CLL on top of everything. Quite a bit to handle, and while I lead a very busy life (work full time, play in a band, exercise, travel, etc), I am just not interested in sex more than 1X every week or two.

Have you ever just found an IC for you and you alone? I mean this very gently, you may not be able to hear this because we BS's always seem to want to "save the marriage" but I would bet alot of money that once you find a way to listen to your gut, find an IC who is only for you and your needs and really learn to love yourself again.....I bet alot of your illnesses go away.

This is just my opinion only. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.


Posts: 5653 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, September 20th (Friday)

If you are feeling this angst now, how do you think you feel once he follows through with his tryst?


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3947 | Registered: Dec 2011
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, September 20th (Friday)

practiced honesty with me about it,

So you said this is one of the guidelines you set....

I'm reluctant to bring it up since I discovered it on accident. I am afraid he will think I purposely snooped. Things have been pretty good between us as of late and I'm loathe to rock the boat, esp. since I haven't been feeling so great.

But yet you found out about it on accident?

so how can you say that he seems to be following the guidlines if you were not told he was involved with someone??

You need to take your first guideline "Keep his priorities focused on you" and let him know that now that you know he's involved, but did not tell you about it upfront, that you are scare that he will continue to keep secret the women, the times, the places, and all of the other information you may need to know to continue to trust him.

If he truely does have your best interests at heart, loves you, and honors your vow 'in sickness and in health' then he will either stop the relationship or open up and be more honest.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1739 | Registered: Sep 2012
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, September 20th (Friday)

So essentially, this is a medically driven open marriage, with only one party actively pursuing the opportunities?

I would be concerned about how this goes, as managing an open marriage, even when that is what both parties want, is very difficult.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, September 20th (Friday)

Are you truly ok with allowing your husband to have sex with other women?

Or are you doing it because you are ill and feel bad that you can't keep up with his high sex drive?

There are other ways to get off,other than having sex...that he "isn't particulary interested" in those ways tells me this man is incredibly selfish.

He doesn't *have to* have sex with other women. You are his wife.

"In sickness and in health"..right?

The fact that you feel sad tells me this is NOT ok with you..and it doesn't have to be. You can not help that you are ill. he CAN do something about his high sex drive..if he HAS TO get off he can always use his hand. Is it the same thing? No. But his marriage and his wife should mean more to him than his need to have intercourse.

I understand men..and women..have needs. YOU have a need to feel safe and loved and respected. This "agreement" doesn't protect you. Not all STD's are passed through intercourse. Is he going to kiss them? Oral sex? Both of these are high risk. An STD is the very last thing you need. Condoms aren't 100% What if he gets someone pregnant? What if he falls in lurrrrve? What if he pursues married women and becomes the OM..affairs are dangerous..OW could become a bunny boiler..she could stalk and harass you and your family..or her BH could find out and show up at your house with a gun(it happens). And your WH would be trusting OW not to talk..because the two of you are well known..chances are..it WILL get around that he is having sex with other women. You can not control anyone other than yourself.

Please..rethink this. My feeling is that you felt pressured into this agreement.

[This message edited by confused615 at 12:25 PM, September 20th (Friday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7435 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, September 20th (Friday)

My heart goes out to you, MaryContrary. You are trying to be a good wife, but as confused says, I don't feel you really are all in on this. Or, maybe, intellectually you are, but your heart is telling you something different.

You must be honest with all your feelings with your husband, Mary, and it isn't too late to change your mind. Imagining and reality are very different.

I am so sorry for all the pain you are going through physically. (((MC)))


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, September 20th (Friday)

All this is good. Thank you. This is why I came here.

confused615, you make a plethora of good points. Many VERY good points.

I thought long and hard about this decision (several years). I did a lot of research on well spouse affairs, their pros and cons. I truly do not feel I was pressured - I asked myself that many times and soulsearched it deeply. But still, like SisterMilkshake pointed out, I couldn't know how I'd feel until it happened... and I was aware of this risk.

I have put myself in his shoes. He is a healthy guy. No physical worries at all. Everyone in his family lives to be 90-100. To be married to a person who is almost always in pain or not feeling up to snuff cannot be easy and brings with it it's own pain and suffering.

When I boil it down to the basic elements, I fear what would happen if I changed my mind. I am afraid he will decide he can't take it and leave and I will be on my own with all my health stuff. I'm not really feeling up for a divorce, you know? I do not have any living family, and it's super hard to think about reaching out for help to friends who know me as mostly well. Misplaced pride? Perhaps. I am human.

As the person he is talking to lives on the east coast (we are in TX), there is still time for me to think on it a bit and decide what I want to do.

I appreciate all your inputs. If anyone has other thoughts, don't hesitate to post.


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
truthsetmefree
Member
Member # 7168
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, September 20th (Friday)

He has never been able to adjust to our limits, and isn't particularly interested in anything other than intercourse

Marriage is about being willing to adapt.

Obviously, you get that.

But does he?

There are so many facets when you bring another person into a marriage...things that can't be predicted or controlled by established boundaries beforehand. It doesn't make sense to me that you don't want to divorce over sex...yet you are introducing something that could destroy your marriage. Have you two discussed this?...that you are essentially gambling with what IS good in the marriage?


Posts: 7682 | Registered: May 2005
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, September 20th (Friday)

truthsetmefree, yes we have discussed this in depth and at length, working to outline how doing this could undermine everything else we have that is good. We ended that conversation with the agreement than if one of us felt uncomfortable, we would talk about it (easier said than done, obviously!) and that it might mean deciding to divorce anyway.

We have agreed this is basically our last available option, after 5+ years of trying so many different ways of being.

Sounds simple enough. Sure isn't in reality.


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, September 20th (Friday)

When I boil it down to the basic elements, I fear what would happen if I changed my mind. I am afraid he will decide he can't take it and leave and I will be on my own with all my health stuff. I'm not really feeling up for a divorce, you know? I do not have any living family, and it's super hard to think about reaching out for help to friends who know me as mostly well. Misplaced pride? Perhaps. I am human.

As the person he is talking to lives on the east coast (we are in TX), there is still time for me to think on it a bit and decide what I want to do.

I would mention again my question earlier.

So essentially, this is a medically driven open marriage, with only one party actively pursuing the opportunities?
The reason I ask this, is that there are ways that an open marriage can be made to work, but an affair can not. We have had members here who were involved in open marriages and quite happy in them, only coming to us when one partner crossed the boundaries and had an affair. (Yes, that sounds strange, but people in open marriages sometimes still have affairs.)

Essentially, the basis of this whole agreement as I understand it is to allow fulfillment of a physical need. He has permission to go out and have sex with other people in order to increase the frequency with which he has sex beyond the once a week or so that you feel up to. Based on this agreement, one would assume that if it was a steady sexual partner, he would want someone local, or at least within the state of Texas. Instead, he has chosen someone on facebook that lives on the east coast. I am afraid that he is not pursuing this at all within the confines of your agreement, and is instead involved in a plain old long distance emotional affair through facebook. If it was truly about just sex, he would have found a local swingers club or something, perhaps hired a professional, joined a sex only dating website, in short, found people he would not be forming an emotional bond with. I also suspect that he may have been up to this before you two reached your agreement, but I can not be certain of that.

This has already started off very badly, it will not get better.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, September 20th (Friday)

Mary, I did a similar thing except for different reasons. I told my ex we could stay together and but live as single people. Never hid anything never lied to him.

It was an absolute disaster. It destroyed my self respect and left scars years of childhood and even marital abuse didn't inflict.

The reason, for me, is that I felt marriage was a team. The "cover me I'm going in" partnership. Regardless of circumstances or outside assaults it was someone that had your six and you theirs.

When you introduce anyone into that equation, especially if not seeking an open relationship going in, it destroys the team and creates a triangle.

I have a chronic health condition as well. Suffer similar pain and times of being "ineffective". I couldn't view my partner in a caregiver roll with those dynamics. I'd not feel safe. I'd feel further like a burden if my medical needs came up "inconveniently" when he had plans.

Conversely, I'd never even contemplate it if my husband were compromised. No way. Couldn't begin to think about being away from him knowing he was in pain and being alone. I could no more do that than abandon my children. Not out of a sense of duty or obligation but because by his side is where I'd want to be.

You mention he has a higher sex drive but also he doesn't like other activities other than intercourse. One of those things is not like the other. Just being physical regardless of penetration is a wide open territory. So many things to see and do.

Please don't let your condition take away from who you are. It should never be, "he loves me inspite of". Life is full of "surprises". Car accidents, job loss, life stresses, family illnesses, child raising traumas. It's the partnership to handle these that gives us strength.

The sad thing is that by putting this on the table and his acceptance and implementation, I fear is the door opened and light shown on something that can never be not known or forgotten. I know you didn't intend this as a test but his response should have been immediate and visceral, "No fucking way and how dare you even suggest that".

Tell him. And as far as the term Well-spouse. How fucking sad. Spouse does not come with a qualifier.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
truthsetmefree
Member
Member # 7168
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, September 20th (Friday)

Aesir makes very valid points. It does seem that your H. is bringing in an emotional/courting element to this that isn't necessarily part of the original agreement.

Mary, I don't envy your position at all. I can certainly understand how this is a rock and a hard place when you were already living in Shitsville. Big, huge hugs. I do think you need to discuss this further with your H.


Posts: 7682 | Registered: May 2005
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, September 20th (Friday)

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. I just have a question. Who suggested the agreement and in this agreement, did you ever discuss and get his feedback on YOU going out and having sex with someone else as well. I only ask because your post reads like you are very concerned with your husbands welfare and your inability to meet his needs but IMO he should be just as focused on you and your needs.

I am not in your MC sessions and you know your H best but honestly if the shoe was on the other foot how would he feel. I don't say that to suggest you test him or anything your story just reads like you are bending over backwards for a man that is at a minimum very selfish and not very understanding of your situation but is very focused on his situation and lack of sex in the M. Just my 2 cents and I wish you the best.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1905 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
LeopoldB
Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, September 20th (Friday)

Taking into account all that you have previously considered and all that has been said here; appreciating that all marriages have challenges and that not all cultures would think such arrangements are odd; and understanding how difficult this must be and how neither you nor your husband ever wanted to be faced with such choices; I think this could be one of the most loving and caring decisions a couple could make in order to stay together. I hope he proves himself worthy of your love and deserves you.

Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2013
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, September 20th (Friday)

aesir - yes, medically driven open marriage where only one partner wants to pursue other opportunities.

The distance thing is the crux. That's what I've been chewing on for days... we did talk about him hiring a professional in the beginning. There seemed to be an ick factor for him with that. I never thought of swingers clubs or sex-only dating sites (didn't even know those existed, to be honest).

There's some other behavior that's interesting which makes me feel he is in a state of conflict about it. Not excusing, just analyzing the situation.

1. He used to be a touring musician (I know, I hear you all groaning and slapping your foreheads) and suddenly three months ago he just HAD to get a perm job here in TX. It was a really funny 180 for him - totally out of character. The act of giving up touring would make it much harder for him to see this person... it does eliminate him being spotted by those who may know us (we are well known in the music scenes in all major TX cities so you never know who you will meet)

2. He's also been telling me odd little facts about his dreams and personal worries which I discovered in seeing the FB messages came from conversations with this person. Almost like - "I have this secret that's trying to burst out" so by telling me little things he somehow relieves his internal pressure?

3. He's been working extra hard at being responsible, doing chores and communicating well when things are difficult. Not like a spectacular turnaround but enough effort to make me go, "Hmm, he seems to be really getting it now." Maybe that's him trying to justify his actions to himself?

You know, writing this all out and getting feedback makes this feel really grotesque... I feel a bit foolish, actually. I do believe he loves and cares for me as he has certainly walked the walk many times, but there does seem to be some disconnect with him. Like being with me is too real and therefore too painful, so he needs a fantasy diversion he can control and shape and use to forget about the difficult reality he has found himself in.


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, September 20th (Friday)

I don't want to pile on you about this as you have explained
I thought long and hard about this decision (several years). I did a lot of research on well spouse affairs, their pros and cons.

however, I have to agree with uncertainone and 7yrs.

As I said, I believe you are trying to be a good wife, you love him so much that you are willing to do this, but at what price to you? When we get married we are saying "in good times and bad, in sickness and health".

Personally, I would be broken hearted either way this "well-spouse affair" came up. Either me (or IC or MC) offering it and FWH not saying immediatedly "no fucking way" or if he came up with it on his own.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, September 20th (Friday)

7yrsflushed - It was my suggestion.

We've never spoken about it the other way around because it's simply not something I could do. Sex is generally difficult and/or painful for me. It has been since the very first time... it's been a problem in every relationship. It's only in the last few years that we've really begun to understand medically why I have had these problems since my teens. I can only imagine what it must be like for my husband when we do have sex and he sees me trying to mask my discomfort. One of the reasons why we have sex much less than earlier in our relationship is because I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle." Once I put myself first in that aspect, we really started having problems.

If I approach him on my own, I generally don't have as much pain because I'm in the right mindset and physical state. I just don't want it that much... I never have in any relationship. That's just me.


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, September 20th (Friday)

his response should have been immediate and visceral, "No fucking way and how dare you even suggest that".
Ditto.

Mary, I am so sorry you are having to face this in addition to dealing with your illness. ((((Mary))))

Has no one of the 3 of you, (you, your H, and the MC) considered the fact that even though you are ill, that surely you too, have sexual needs? That your H could meet in such a way as to not cause you too much physical exertion, and that if he were not so caught up in his own 'needs' that there might be a way for the two of you to meet each others needs without going outside the marriage?

Has no one suggested working with a sex therapist on finding ways for the two of you to meet each others needs?

Personally, I feel your H is incredibly selfish. Many men would be more than happy to have sex once every week or two. Heck, there are many stories right here on SI of quite a few men that would be overjoyed to have sex once a week with their wives.

Not to be flip, but maybe your H needs a date with Rosy Palm, and her 5 sisters. Seems a lot safer and less complicated than a one-sided 'open marriage'.

And just who exactly was the one that originally came up with this idea?


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7056 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, September 20th (Friday)

We have spent thousands of $$ on a sex therapist. Saw her for a two years. Helped him deal with his anger over my health issues and accept that he'd never be able to be with me with wild abandon. No therapist's suggestions, however, no matter how skilled, can overcome a body that just doesn't want to play fair.

Thinking back, the subject may have first come up in her office when we were brainstorming options. We didn't pursue discussing it at that time but I don't remember why. That was before I really started to have significant pain and prior to the leukemia diagnosis and all the crap that brought. We thought we had it bad then... would that I could rewind the clock and appreciate that time more!

My sexual needs are perfectly well met. I have more than I want. He is more than happy to accommodate me in any way I wish and drives me crazy asking if he can do something for me. He has a hard time understanding what it's like to not need sex or an orgasm. Really, to his credit, he does try very hard to be gentle but avoiding my painful areas and scars is like navigating between between Scylla and Charybdis. Even I don't always know when something will hurt... so we try our best to avoid but aren't always successful. He gets terribly upset (more than me, honestly) when we hit a painful spot, and sometimes becomes very despondent after. He is very emotional in general.

The Rosy Palm is more than well used: 2-4 times a day from what he tells me. He gets to the point where he's done it so much it hurts, then he's frustrated he has to take a break. This has been discussed with his doctor, the MC and his IC, their take is he's on the high end of normal. Yes, we have had the open and honest and extremely emotional conversations with MC and both our ICs about the sex addict subject. Group consensus is that is not his problem.

And like I said earlier, when we really discussed this arrangement in earnest with the current MC, it was at my suggestion.

I have never really been able to figure out where this somewhat desperate-sounding insatiability comes from, and neither have the counselors (at least not the ones with whom I worked - I don't know what any of the 3 or 4 he's seen have truly said to him).

[This message edited by MaryContrary at 5:48 PM, September 20th (Friday)]


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, September 21st (Saturday)

The Rosy Palm is more than well used: 2-4 times a day from what he tells me. He gets to the point where he's done it so much it hurts, then he's frustrated he has to take a break.
Good Gawd! Well, I'm not a man, and I'm certainly not a doctor, but IMO, that is way, way, WAY abnormal.

Yes, we have had the open and honest and extremely emotional conversations with MC and both our ICs about the sex addict subject. Group consensus is that is not his problem.
You're kidding, right? Has he seen anyone that is an expert in sex addiction?

Honestly, I don't see this as even having anything much to do with you, or your illness, but with HIM. Was he sexually abused as a child?


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7056 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, September 21st (Saturday)

he is masterbating 2-4 times a DAY??

That is NOT normal..at all. Unless he's a 15 year old boy..and clearly he is not.

Not all therapists are the same. I agree with PPGA..he needs to be seen by an expert who deals with sex addiction.

I deal with chronic pain. It has affected our sex life. It has affected our sex life since dday. WH has been nothing but kind and patient. If I were to suggest he go elsewhere to get his sexual needs met, it would hurt his feelings..I asked him. He said," There is no one else in this world that I want to touch other than you. Sex is about more than a physical release..it's about love. I love YOU. I would never disrespect you..or our marriage..or our family..or myself in that way again. You are my wife..in sickness and in health. I have no need for anyone else."

^^And that should be any husband's response when dealing with a wife who has health issues.

I have never heard of a "well spouse affair" until you posted about it.

And..honestly? I think it's an excuse to cheat. It minimizes the betrayal by saying "my spouse is sick so I have to have sex with other people." It puts the blame on the sick spouse. I realize that is not what you are doing..but that is what will happen. Affairs are messy. Feelings get involved. He will come home from having sex and you will know what he has been doing. It will cause you pain. And when it does..will he be patient and understanding..and willing to stop? Or will he blame you..it's your fault..your idea..you suggested it..etc?

I see you are trying to be practical. But you are human..you have feelings..as do these women he is going to have sex with. Will she be ok with being used for sex? What if she falls for him..and he falls for her?

It's a dangerous thing to do,IMO.

ETA: Has he been unfaithful to you in any way during your marriage? Any ONS? An EA? Poor boundaries?

[This message edited by confused615 at 8:41 AM, September 21st (Saturday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7435 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
LeopoldB
Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

Non-judgmentally, I would characterize the arrangement as his seeing a sex surrogate for physical therapy - - not infidelity.

In some enlightened countries, health insurance might pay for it.


Posts: 204 | Registered: Sep 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

Ok, I'm going to disagree here. Masturbating 2-4 times a day is not, in an of itself, any problem at all. I have done it and I'm not a guy nor am I a sex addict. Only problem can be irritation and for women possible bladder infection if not careful with hand washing and lotion use.

Masturbating because of a compulsion is one thing. Because you enjoy it another.

Only thing you need to look at is if it's interfering in your life or sexual intimacy with your partner. I mean, if you have to call in sick at work, yeah, prolly an issue. If you prefer it over intimacy with your partner, absolutely.

Problem is, reading your following posts, you've put him on a diet because of your appetite. Not cool. Actually, the exact same behavior he is now being accused of.

Your further information changes my initial post. I agree with your solution. Since you don't enjoy sex his sex life shouldn't be cut off as well. That, by the way, is if you choose to stay married. I honestly don't see how this situation is cool for either of you.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 4:46 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

You said he is only interested in intercourse which leaves you little options. Have you discussed your getting involved with another who could offer you more foreplay and tenderness?

Has he considered retaking the vows in front of friends and family stating he will forsake you in sickness?


Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 4:57 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Also with masturbating to the point of pain, he has a problem. What happens when he gets a woman somewhere who changes her mind but he doesn't change his? Is there a crime accessory to rape?

Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Well this...

What happens when he gets a woman somewhere who changes her mind but he doesn't change his? Is there a crime accessory to rape?

Escalated quickly?

Since you don't enjoy sex his sex life shouldn't be cut off as well.


Agree except in the context of the fact MaryContrary has never really had a high sex drive and I got the distinct impression her husband knew how she felt before they got married.

Sex is generally difficult and/or painful for me. It has been since the very first time... it's been a problem in every relationship.

If it was me I would be honest and forthright about how you do it. However try and do it in a non-confrontational way. Almost... I don't know... romantically? Maybe hire a nice suite in a hotel and have dinner together. "Honey, I love you so much, I have to come to realise that I don't want to put our relationship in jeopardy by going through with this agreement" sex is something we should only share with eachother etc etc

I think it's going to be really important on how you approach this one. He's not in the wrong. If it was me personally I would only go with prostitutes and have it as a kinky thing you do together. Like you pick the one out for him...

The whole thing is not my cup of tea but I think you don't know how you would react unless you're in someone else's shoes. So no judgment here.


[This message edited by lauren123 at 9:36 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

What was your sex life like while you were dating?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4894 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
confetticheck
New Member
Member # 38676
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

his response should have been immediate and visceral, "No fucking way and how dare you even suggest that".

Omgosh, I was just about to post exactly this (minus the f word lol).

This IS what he should have said.

And furthermore, I think a good partner would be actively engaged in finding things the two of you can do sexually that won't cause you pain rather than just whining about the thing you can't do.

He should be trying to make you feel good about yourself in spite of your difficulties rather than making you feel inadequate.

I think you'd better talk to him fast before this gets out of hand. Do not be worried about how you found out. According to the "agreement" he should have already told you anyway.


Me - WH
Her - BW
Married 20 yrs, 3 kids
DDay - 17 Nov '12 (5 month PA)

Life's tough, it's tougher when your stupid.


Posts: 37 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: FL
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Agree except in the context of the fact MaryContrary has never really had a high sex drive and I got the distinct impression her husband knew how she felt before they got married.
I agree with you about this Lauren. Also, it seems sex has always been painful for Mary. Who would have a sex drive when it involves physical pain? (except, of course, those who do enjoy physical pain whilst having sex)

Then there is the fact that they do have intercourse 2-4 times a month. Will you two still have intercourse or any sexual relationship? How often is he going to be seeing this "other" person? Once a month? Once a week? Everyday? Sounds like your husband would want it everyday. Not likely if he has to fly to see her. Expensive if you are paying pro's.

Also with masturbating to the point of pain, he has a problem.
It sounds like you have been to many therapists. I believe you even saw a sex therapist. I find it hard to believe that they would think there isn't a "problem" when someone masturbates to the point of pain. Have you checked these people's credentials?

It also seems that Mary's husband is hyper focused on intercourse. Mary has said she is open to other sex acts. I also didn't get that Mary doesn't not enjoy sex (but not intercourse so much 'cause it is extremely painful), but has very little need for it and is content with what she has. Two different things. How I read it, anyway.

If this is the path you are going to go down, Mary, I would stop this facebook friendship right now. There can't be any secrets in this kind of arrangement. You have got to be in on the whole thing. A threesome of sorts. Every conversation you must know and be part of. No, not for the actual sex act, unless you want to be. This person is going to be a "surrogate" for YOU! You should be in on every step of this journey. There can be no emotions involved with this surrogate. The FB friend has already crossed that boundary.

If it was me personally I would only go with prostitutes and have it as a kinky thing you do together. Like you pick the one out for him...
This. Or, your sex therapist should know of a sex surrogate. That would be the route to go if you really decide to go down this path.

Sadly, I see nothing but pain for you, Mary. This whole situation sounds like someone is going to get hurt, and the bets would be on you!

The whole thing is not my cup of tea but I think you don't know how you would react unless you're in someone else's shoes. So no judgment here.
I feel the same as Lauren, Mary. I will add, once again, I feel you love your husband very, very much and you are/were considering this out of a deep love for your husband and I admire you and that love. ((((MaryContrary))))


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Dreamland
Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Nope.. This would not work for me.. He is shared by no one.. He had problems with ED due to an illness and I was sexless for years.. Believe me I was the one running hot but he is my H for better or worse and in sickness and in health .. Unfortunately he cheated but he's still mine and I won't share..
Sorry but you need a new MC.


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

it's been a problem in every relationship.

One of the reasons why we have sex much less than earlier in our relationship is because I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle." Once I put myself first in that aspect, we really started having problems.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where he has the problem. He's not looking for excuses to cheat as this wasn't suggested by him. He tried being patient, loving and gentle.

I'm sure she knew he had a high sex drive when dating as well.

If this is a solution that works for you both that's what matters. I agree with the other posters. Wouldn't work for me and apparently you are having second thoughts as well.

As far as who would want sex if in pain? There are quite a few. In fact it actually can make some feel better. There are those of us with chronic health conditions that experience sometimes excrutiating pain to where even the slightest move is painful. Not been a problem.

Since he's been to many therapists, have you as well? An infidelity site that has a majority of members as women cheated on by men may not give the most balanced feedback on something like this. You've both discussed it openly and agreed. Not sure how it's infidelity at all.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

In fact it actually can make some feel better.
Evidently it doesn't make Mary feel better.
I'm sure she knew he had a high sex drive when dating as well.
They were both naive and probably thought "love will conquer all". Wrong!
He's not looking for excuses to cheat as this wasn't suggested by him.
Right, but he is already breaking the agreement rules. Keeping secrets.
practiced honesty with me about it
Part of the agreement. Secrets = the biggest aspect of most infidelity.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Evidently it doesn't make Mary feel better.

Right. So if he's going to therapists maybe she can get some help there as well. Sex is a very mental thing as well and that can manifest itself in physical pain. Why is the burden on him when she is the one with the problem.

The first post was an agreement for him to pursue outside interests as long as he kept his priority and focus on her. He left his Facebook open and he hasn't changed how he is with her.

Was the honesty portion a blow by blow or a if something actually comes up to let you know? I'd think anything like this would be extremely dicey. You both also agreed to stop if one was uncomfortable. Have you told him you're uncomfortable or did you come directly here?

Since all this has been open and he's been examined by a team with his entire sexuality under a microscope why not go directly to him at talk to him about this? Why open it up to strangers that any form of sex outside the marriage is a...hot button...to say the least.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

We have gone through years of counseling both together and independently, and it has helped, but what it can't fix are my unchanging physical limitations.
We have spent thousands of $$ on a sex therapist. Saw her for a two years. Helped him deal with his anger over my health issues and accept that he'd never be able to be with me with wild abandon. No therapist's suggestions, however, no matter how skilled, can overcome a body that just doesn't want to play fair.
It sounds to me that Mary has been very proactive in trying to overcome her sexual limits.

You know, some men really, really want anal sex with their wives. Many wives aren't willing to go there. Or, they will maybe once in awhile. This maybe something this husband really, really craves but the wife isn't willing to go there. Should he be allowed to have a "well-spouse affair" also? I honestly see very little difference in this as Mary and husband are having sex. Just not the kind the husband really desires. Marriage is full of compromises.

eta: "Why open it up to strangers that any form of sex outside the marriage is a...hot button...to say the least."

I feel Mary is very wise to get feedback from people that have had a third party involved in their marriage. To maybe see where the pitfalls may fall in a "well-spouse affair". How it could possibly lead to infidelity.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:02 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Sister, read what the OP said to her husband. Not exactly the same as the situation you're postulating. But since we're dealing in hypotheticals, so y'all would be ok with a husband coming home and saying, " I've decided I'm keeping my paycheck and giving you a small allowance, after all, marriage isn't about money, right? For richer and poorer and I don't desire material things so hope you can budget. Love ya honey"?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

read what the OP said to her husband.
Can you just tell me what the OP said to her husband?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I did. I quoted it. It's actually what changed my mind. Started with her putting her foot down.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I'm on my phone, I apologize, can't do this very well

One of the reasons why we have sex much less than earlier in our relationship is because I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle." Once I put myself first in that aspect, we really started having problems."


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

You feel Mary did a bait and switch? I don't get that at all, UO. It seems from the post that Mary's medical issues started to become more complicated and that she realized that she shouldn't have to suffer so much pain to please her husband. My take.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Sorry, UO, didn't realize you were on your phone and it would be difficult for you to find the quote. I can't respond at all on my phone. Too hard. You did good, though!


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9668 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

*****I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle."*****


I got the impression from this statement that Mary's husband may not have been being 'considerate' of her limitations and wasn't being sensitive to whether the sexual action was creating discomfort or pain to her. Nor do I get the impression that he is *willing* to attempt to find a way for the 2 of them to have sex in a way that is 'least' painful. If she's just being treated like a *hole*, then I can understand why she would have made the statement that she did......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8007 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I'm not sure how you got that impression, gonna, as her posts states the exact opposite. How caring, gentle, sensitive to her pain. How he felt even worse about hitting a sore place.

Regardless. The narrative confuses me, so I gave my opinion and I'm out.

Wish for healing and peace for you both.

Thanks, sister. I wen the extra mile for you.

Seriously, I'm so dumb with this stuff. The apple "genius" asked why I didn't get a bigger phone. I said the size was fine because it fit in my pocket. He meant memory. DUH


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Okay, I am going to try not to make any assumptions or projections or whatever and just go by what is posted.

This interstate romance is certainly not going to accomplish the stated goal. Those of us who have ever had to deal with distances can tell you categorically that once every week or two would be be incredibly awesome, something we could only dream of.

Airfare back and forth 2 to 4 times a month, let alone per day, would be financially ruinous. So would the idea of hiring a professional, whether they be a certified sex surrogate or meth addict of the street would also be financially ruinous at the frequency described.

The way I see it, there are only a few possibilities.

1) Status Quo.
2) Divorce.
3) Turn a blind eye and let him do whatever. This will likely lead to #2 eventually, either by your choice or his as he forms emotional relationships with whoever. Most of us here can honestly say that our marriages went to shit during the affair before we found out about it.
4) Embrace the situation and fetishise it. Place ads on the sex only dating sites (there are lots of them, every third click when downloading movies actually)and he be honest about it. You could even place the ad as a couple with something along the lines of "Looking for a woman to fuck my husband." An ad like that would actually get a response. You might even find someone who is into the whole french maid thing as a kink and at least get your house cleaned in the process. Rent out a spare room in exchange for sexual favors. Consider joining a swingers club or something, you don't actually have to have sex yourself with those clubs, but they would insist you know about it. Whatever method you feel most comfortable (least uncomfortable) with. It looks like you will have to be involved somehow if you go this route, since he doesn't seem to be able to handle it on his own in a manner keeping in line with the stated goals and boundaries. Just make sure that there are no secrets about what is going on, and it does not become an actual relationship, if he starts to get attached to the person, then it is time to end it.

Whatever the option you choose, please add in at least one rule and respect other peoples marriages, and avoid going the route of any of the affair/bored housewife needs cock, or whatever type of sites and ads. Don't involve anyone who is already involved in a relationship/marriage unless their partner is also aware of and approving of the arrangement.

You are free to choose any of those 4 options, or one that I missed if you can think of it. I only mention this as something for you to think about while you try to sort this out.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

You have all written a lot while I was offline - let me try to respond comprehensively. Sorry for the novel.

I would like to call out that SisterMilkshake and lauren123 are coming the closest to understanding this complicated conudrum. I would like to give a summary of my health history so you all can get a handle on the big picture I've got going on. I am NOT looking for sympathy. Just appreciate is the complexity, please.

1. Endometriosis with scarring and adhesions diagnosed (dxed) at age 18
2. Hormones permanently thrown off because of how my endometriosis was treated with BC pills for 20 years - my body cannot maintain a normal level of testosterone, so I must supplement. Finally dxed at age 40. I see an internationally lauded specialist for this.
3. Poor immunity from childhood resulting in a propensity for all sorts of colds/flus and vaginal infections. This was probably a precursor to my final presentation with CLL.
4. Chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL), most likely cooking since 2006 as white counts have been rising slowly since then. Presently, symptoms are fatigue and a greater propensity for infections. Add in anxiety as this is currently an incurable cancer requiring very careful planning before treatment is started. Long term treatment tends to cause infections or secondary cancers which kill the patient. I am currently in the planning stage and may be for several years. Dxed at 40. I see the world's top specialist for CLL.
5. Perimenopause - wacky periods, PMS for weeks, all that stuff. This shit just started this year.
6. Pain from an accident 7 years ago where I broke my left hip, requiring pins/plate and leaving me stiff/painful in that hip and with a large sensitive scar.

I have chewed through dozens of drs in my lifetime and believe my health care team at this point to be absolute top notch.


What was your sex life like while you were dating?

It was better. 12 years ago, I was much more capable and willing to put up with pain. At that point I just had endometriosis, the start of the messed up hormones, propensity for infections and occasional fatigue. I was excited to be with my new boyfriend - the "new relationship" fire was hot. I could manage about 3-4 times a week. Keeping up that pace became a marathon that would never end. About two years in, I began to get sicker and my ability to have sex declined. We talked about it all the time. Sometimes calmly, sometimes upset. He encouraged me to keep seeking doctors who wouldn't just throw a script at me and get frustrated when I didn't get better. He knew I couldn't keep up long before we were married. We started seeing ICs and MCs in 2003 to address the tension the sexual mismatch was generating. We felt we could find a way to overcome the mismatch.

We married in 2006. I broke my hip 5 months later. After the accident, my general state of health began to decline faster. More pain, more infections, more anxiety and exhaustion from the constant discomfort and upset over being 35 and having to struggle so much. It was around then when I put my foot down about not forcing myself to have sex any longer.

Next quote:

Then there is the fact that they do have intercourse 2-4 times a month. Will you two still have intercourse or any sexual relationship? How often is he going to be seeing this "other" person? Once a month? Once a week? Everyday? Sounds like your husband would want it everyday. Not likely if he has to fly to see her. Expensive if you are paying pro's.

Our agreement is we will have sex as I feel up to it. Previously, in MC, we'd tried to agree upon a consistent commitment of 2X a week. I tried hard to meet that commitment but could not. I found I was making choices focused on preserving my ability to have sex, rather than actually live my life. That was no good.

We did discuss frequency but he could not articulate what he wanted in the context of seeing another person.

It sounds like you have been to many therapists. I believe you even saw a sex therapist. I find it hard to believe that they would think there isn't a "problem" when someone masturbates to the point of pain. Have you checked these people's credentials?

Yes. Extensively. I fact-check as a hobby, LOL. I just counted them all up - we have seen a total of 10 (3 MCs, including the sex specialist, 3 ICs for him, 4 for me, and not counting the one I saw prior to this relationship). I find it hard to believe the same issue can be worked on with 10 professionals and they all come to the wrong conclusion.

Several of my ICs have posited he has narcissist tendencies. I do agree very much with that. So does our MC. The man loves attention more than anyone I know. Discussing it with him is quite another story. Most narcissists can't be convinced they ARE narcissists. I do believe we have more work to do here, for sure.

Was he sexually abused as a child?

No but he has experienced abandonment by his father, who bugged out when H was 4. Dad was present in his life thereafter but he was an awkward, disengaged dad and H had a lot of anxiety and anger when visiting. From what I can tell, H's mom was overwhelmed with caring for her 2 small sons, one of which (my H) who was very stubborn and willful, and the other who was very meek and anxious. Mom wasn't great with boundaries/accountability.

Poor boundaries?

I am only his second long term relationship and I quite firmly believe I am the first woman in his life who has tried to enforce accountability and boundaries on him. Some of the tantrums thrown over setting and maintaining reasonable boundaries (like not talking loud on the phone when I'm trying to sleep) have been... shall we say... EPIC. Complete with panic attacks and screaming fits. Needless to say, I refused to engage in "helping" him through the panic attacks/fits and that stuff stopped quickly. He hasn't done that in a couple years now.

So... to wrap this up:
1. He's got a physical need I can't and won't ever be able to meet, but there really are still unresolved emotional issues at hand. Respecting boundaries/rules/agreements sounds like the cornerstone.
2. I am going to talk to him but first I need to figure out how to broach it. Good news is I have an appt with the MC this Thursday and will get her feedback.

Lauren123 thank you for your suggestion about a possible way to talk to him. I thank all the rest of you for the time you've spent with me on this.

Aesir, thank you for the summary of possible options.

If anyone makes it all the way through this post I applaud you for your fortitude!

[This message edited by MaryContrary at 2:59 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 2:07 AM, September 23rd (Monday)

Haha I've never been told I have fortitude before

I think considering the stakes it's obviously really stressful. I've learnt that it's all about the delivery and it seems to be very undervalued.

However you bring it up it will make him defensive. You just want it to be the least offensive as possible.

Personally I don't think the contract that has been written up is viable for your relationship.

It shouldn't it be someone he/ you know. He's swimming in dangerous/ stupid territory with facebook.

Your dedication is commendable and you sound like an extremely strong person. Your husband also sounds like he needs to be a bit more sensitive to this issue but I think it's commendable the way you said he has supported you.

So that in consideration, the delivery is key.

Good luck!


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
MaryContrary
New Member
Member # 40723
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, September 30th (Monday)

Hello all:
I wanted to fill you in on what has transpired since my last post.

I mentioned earlier in the thread my H has been telling me odd little facts about dreams, and last week he brought it up again. Telling me about this girl he's dreaming about and how uncomfortable and upset the dreams are making him feel. I let him go on about it until he ran himself out of steam, then I asked, "Are you sure you don't have something you want to tell me? These dreams sound very specific."

He hemmed and hawed a bit and after another gentle probe, came out with "Ok she's real, she's a girl I've been talking to on FB."

And that very naturally let to me saying, "You know, you left your FB open the other day on the iPad and I saw some of your messages. This is your opportunity to tell me what's going on."

And he did. I was FLOORED.

No screaming. No crying. No defensive anger. He was clearly relieved. I was very surprised by his level of calmness and his ability to remain "in conversation" which in previous difficult discussions has been very challenging for him. He also explained (again I was thankful I was sitting down) that he's realized what he really craves is validation with no past history in the way (as in, being perceived as a person without flaw). Validation from me doesn't scratch his itch, because I know his flaws and imperfections.

So, for the first time in 13 years, I feel like he's articulated the root of the problem from his perspective, rather than trying to blame it on our physical disconnects.

I feel like we've passed a milestone and may be on a better route than before. We have cancelled our agreement as he's admitted it's not about the physical element in the end. That is progress... how far it gets us remains to be seen.

Thanks again for all your advice - I found myself referring back to things said in this thread during our conversations which helped me stay calm and focused. Cheers, all!


Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, September 30th (Monday)

Is he still going to communicate with the girl on facebook?

Is the girl married?


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7435 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, September 30th (Monday)

I''m so happy that you guys got the chance to talk, really talk deeply about the emotions and feelings that were hiding under all of the sexual incompatibility stuff. I hope that this is a new beginning for you, communication wise.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4809 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
wwcrash
New Member
Member # 40843
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

Wowza. Bless your heart, Mary!! Big hugs to you. You are a strong woman, and I admire you.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: SE US
Topic Posts: 53