SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Divorce/Separation
User Topic: What the fuck should I do re: document request???
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Angry  Posted: 5:16 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

I am so pissed! Today I am allowed to be fucking pissed. Please let me rant.

The past couple of months, stbx and I have been going back and forth regarding settlement offers. I don't owe him a cent (thank God) but he owes me over $30,000 including past non-payment of DS14 tuition, car loan, uncovered medical, joint property.

On my last settlement offer, I stated I would forgive the car loan ($16,000) if he will pay for half of DS14 tuition. I felt that was extremely generous and would allow stbx to use the money he was supposed to pay me back on his child's tuition.

But what the fuck do I get in return. I fucking stupid "production of documents" shit. 29 fucking requests for documents for shit all the way back from when we were married! ALL the statements, last will and testaments, ... I mean EVERYTHING!

Why? Why is he doing this? Does he think I have hidden money? Why? Please someone explain it to me. I am about to give up. If he doesn't want to support his own kids, THEN DON'T!!! I don't have time for this bullshit!! I just want to be divorced!! Please!!

Talk some sense into me. Why is document production important? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHILD SUPPORT OR JOINT PROPERTY (and all we have are cars)!! What is the fucking problem with paying for half of children's expenses???

I apologize for all the swear words but I haven't been this angry in a while. Thank you for the space to vent! I hope someone in D/S dealt with "document production"!

One last thing, my stbx is so fucking stupid so I know this wasn't his thinking. Probably his attorney is trying to lessen his financial burden or his "friend" who is paying for the attorney is telling him to do it. Whatever ... what goes around comes around. In the end, stbx and I will each be blessed with the happiness and life that we DESERVE! Other than this road bump, my life is gooood.


Me (BS): 43 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Divorced September 30, 2014
"It's always darkest before the dawn ..."

Posts: 2270 | Registered: Oct 2012
Too_Trusting
Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

dmari,

I understand your anger and frustration. My exWH used his $$ and his lawyer to nearly break me emotionally AND financially during our divorce. I was ready to throw in the towel when I got their discovery (that's what request for production and interrogatories are) requests. 53 fucking requests. 53!!!

What he's doing is trying to STARVE YOU into settlement and/or giving up and letting him have it all his way. The more shit he throws your way, the more $$ and time it will cost you with your lawyer.

Don't. Let. Him. Win.

I almost did. I was at my wits end and a very dear and wise friend told me this:

You only get one chance at this. It's only for a year. You can do anything for a year. Don't let him win by making you quit.

So, by damn, I pulled up my big girl panties, and went to work. I answered his damn interrogatories MYSELF and created my own Word document so I didn't have to pay my lawyer's paralegal hourly rate to do it. I gathered all the damn documents and made my own copies, organizing them nicely in a numbered index and notebook.

That whole round of discovery cost me exactly 1 hour of my lawyers time because I did all the work. My exWH, OTOH, paid his expensive mouthpiece over $3,200.

GOTCHA.

You can do this. Do whatever you have to do because the courts require it. But do NOT let him starve you into submission because he buried you in discovery requests.

It's been 12 years since I went through this hell, and it still makes my blood boil.


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2482 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

Do you have an attorney?


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

Answer the "request" noting all the documents from the marriage that he should be able to access on his own. Seriously, that should be your reply - "Mr. Fucktard either has or has access to this document."

Provide some of what you have, if it's truly something he really can't get. But don't do his work for him. Let his attorney get pissed off at him, too.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12164 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: DeepInTheHeartOf, TX
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

In the process of figuring out if I wanted to stay and work on M or D sooner rather than later, one of my older (not 63 yo) friends said that she was so frustrated in trying to compel her Ex to pay CS that a friend of hers suggested she write a letter releasing him of his obligation. So she did just that. "Dear X, I release you from paying CS. However, any contributions you would voluntarily like to make would be greatly appreciated." She felt free because she did not have to devote energy or time to chasing this guy down. And he never did contribute, but his kids know that and he knows that and well...it says a lot about him. She was not wealthy at all...she always did ok but she was a flight attendant and just was very good with money and lived wisely and often worked extra jobs to make more $.

So...just another option.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

Thank you guys! I so needed to hear a response from my posse!

Too_Trusting: Awesome advice and will take it! I put my bitch boots on and have dedicated this afternoon and night to locating documents and copying. Looks like it's fast food for the kids!

Amazonia: Yes, I have an attorney.

inconnu: Thank you!! That is EXACTLY what I was planning to do! All our shit was joint (accounts, loans) so he has access to it! I refuse to do his work.

womaninflux: Thank you! That was what I was going to do. Your friend stated it very eloquently and will save that as a plan B.

Sending you all hugs hugs hugs and thank yous!! My bitch boots now has spikes attached!


Me (BS): 43 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Divorced September 30, 2014
"It's always darkest before the dawn ..."

Posts: 2270 | Registered: Oct 2012
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

doc requests usually have several standard, basic objections. Your attorney should be familiar with them, if you tell him/her which documents your STBX has reasonable access to.

[This message edited by Amazonia at 8:07 PM, September 21st (Saturday)]


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
Too_Trusting
Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

I would caution you about telling him "he has access to the documents and can get them himself." You see, as a direct result of the HELL I went through during my divorce, I went back to school and became a paralegal. Been working as one since 2004. Soooooo, here's the legal mumbo-jumbo about discovery...

You are REQUIRED to provide documents that are "within your custody or control, or that you can reasonably obtain". IOW, if you CAN get, for example, bank records for 5 years, but not for 10, then provide the 5 years. Doesn't matter if HE can get them too. The request for documents is OF YOU, and courts do NOT like to hear a "motion to compel" in ANY case. And that's exactly what will happen if you don't make a "good faith effort" to provide the documents they have requested.

Is it fair? HELL NO. Is it a royal pain in ass? HELL YES. Can two play this game? HELL TO THE YES!! Have YOUR Lawyer send him a boatload of interrogatories and request for production.

As Ama pointed out, there are standard objections to requests - "overly broad and burdensome" (for requests that are...well...burdensome or not well defined); "outside the scope of rule __" (whatever your state's discovery rule is) if they are asking for the moon when they are only entitled to ask for stars; "not discoverable or likely to lead to discoverable information" (again, asking for something that is outside the scope of the rules); "protected by work product" (lawyer's strategy for the case or protected by confidentiality, etc.).

My advice would be to gather EVERYTHING you can, even if you have to request it from some entity, and give it to your lawyer. The lawyer will determine what they are entitled to have. That's why you're paying him or her the big bucks.

I know it sucks, and I hated every damn second I invested in it. BUT, I beat that bastard at his own game, and it cost HIM more $$ than it ever cost me.

Home run, IMHO.


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2482 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I do hope you are rescinding your offer to forgive that loan.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I do hope you are rescinding your offer to forgive that loan.
Me too.


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25726 | Registered: Aug 2011
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

You've gotten great and knowledgeable advice here dmari - I just want to suggest a set of spurs to compliment those spiked bitch boots. He wants to make it a rodeo - you need to dress appropriately.


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4129 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
MyReturn2Me
Member
Member # 34352
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I do hope you are rescinding your offer to forgive that loan.

^^Fuckin'A! on this^^

and

I just want to suggest a set of spurs to compliment those spiked bitch boots. He wants to make it a rodeo - you need to dress appropriately.

[This message edited by MyReturn2Me at 10:50 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


Me: BS 51 and Freaking AWESOME!
Him: Who the fuck cares........

Posts: 259 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Puget Sound
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I do hope you are rescinding your offer to forgive that loan.

Amen to that!!!
If he wants to jerk you around, he doesn't get to benefit from it financially too.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6526 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Too_Trusting: Thank you for the advice! Although I don't love the advice I totally understand the reasoning. It's a tough pill to swallow but hey, totally do-able. I really admire the way to took the shit-sandwich you were given and you threw it up , went back to school, and became a paralegal! Love it!

Take2: Thank you for helping me with my outfit!!

damncutekitty: Great advice. Thank you! I don't know if I can rescind (is that legal?) but I'm sure going to try!!

Thank you all for responding!! I spent all afternoon and evening making copies and probably still need 10 more hours to complete. I have a call to my attorney who did my estate as I don't think he should have my last will and testament. With all the copy paper I have used, stbx should plant 5 damn trees.

I allowed myself to be angry yesterday and today I have accepted what I need to do and do it! Thank you!


Me (BS): 43 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Divorced September 30, 2014
"It's always darkest before the dawn ..."

Posts: 2270 | Registered: Oct 2012
Rainbows
Member
Member # 39362
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I am going through this too, and between the interrogatories and admissions, I have close to 200 things to respond to.

Everyone is right, it's a game they're playing. I learned from work that lawyers use interrogatories to trip people up so they can pursue them for legal fees later. They ask questions they feel they can prove to get you to lie. This is one way parties that owe money flip the tables, so keep that in mind.

[This message edited by Rainbows at 12:28 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


There is always a rainbow after every storm.

Posts: 411 | Registered: May 2013 | From: California
whyohwhyohwhy
Member
Member # 17890
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

x's lawyer sent me literally a 70 page interrogatory document.

I was supposed to list my art collection, boats, jewelry, etc.

Needless to say, my art collection consisted of a few prints I bought at a garage sale, I don't own a boat, etc.

I completed it as best I could, and she followed it up with a letter to my lawyer saying that I owed x $30,000.

Needless to say, that was outrageous and didn't happen. And I didn't have $30,000. It was a complete shot in the dark on behalf of his lawyer.

I think they just do this to drive you crazy. So, just do the best you can.

[This message edited by whyohwhyohwhy at 1:24 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


what did I ever do to deserve this?

Me:47 BS
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced


Posts: 1043 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: east coast
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Answer the "request" noting all the documents from the marriage that he should be able to access on his own. Seriously, that should be your reply - "Mr. Fucktard either has or has access to this document."

As far as I know, you are not allowed to do this. You must produce everything requested, or he can file a Motion to Compel.

I've been producing docs and answering interrogatories for two years now. And I'm a SAHM with no income. STBX tried to pull what was suggested above, and the judge slapped him down. He has to pay my attorney fees for not producing everything.

I agree that he's trying to drive you crazy, or he's looking for something to prove he doesn't have to give you what you deserve. But as far as I've ever heard, you have to produce everything in good faith. I had to produce 18 years of monthly retirement account statements, for instance.


Posts: 1702 | Registered: Oct 2011
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Some of this is happening with X and what I and some locals who "know" his lawyer think, is that it's part of the intimidation process.

It's also getting "the other side" to spend as much money as possible, which is a game I've heard this L likes. It makes him feel stronger and feeds the narcissistic L's ego.

But, I would think there would be part of an angle that would be in your best interest to provide what you could, esp. if you can find it on your own. Many papers I've "found" on my own and handed to L when I'm going anyway and it's helped save time or interaction, i.e. a bill. I'm SAHM for many years, with zero secrets from X, but part of this process is, indeed, a game...at least here. So when I can find and provide something they want, it's a way to not let them "win" and I can go along on my way with something crossed off.

That's terrible about the tuition and car. We have some of this too and because of where OW is with re. to DD and us, he's created even more expense for himself. I, like you, have forgiven some debt but am getting tired of it. And I try to be friendly about cs money when it's behind, but I note it and tell L so that it's not gotten away with, but I can keep peace better that way.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

I grew up on a cattle ranch. These aren't mine, but I still have mine and I know how to use 'em. You need to get some, sister!

[This message edited by Nature_Girl at 9:24 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9824 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)

T/J

I'm a Black female that did not grow up on anything resembling a ranch/farm.

Those are a GORGEOUS pair of
"bitch" boots and I'd rock them with pride and flair.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6526 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
Topic Posts: 20