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User Topic: Dazed and Confused
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)

Greetings all

So, I am in a very strange place and different then the posts I have read so far.

Details:
Married 4 years
2 children
Recently Separated

Wife had interests in women but we agreed once we married that we were committed to each other
Our sex life had been declining over the year+ but she claimed she needed ‘time’ and our lives were busy
A month ago she put a password on her phone so I checked her wireless plan and found she was texting and calling the same number over a 1000x
She blew up when I confronted her that day about who she was texting
We agreed to enter counseling where I was told I violated her boundaries, I was smothering, controlling, and had unreasonable demands for sex
I have been in counseling for my issues (councilor separate from our marriage counselor) but my counselor and I are struggling on the approach since he feels my issues are not that severe. He mentioned that the majority of the issues could remain on my wife’s side
She is always complaining of the need for space and now she is living on her own (we share the kids equally)
We are still in counseling and have been for a little over a month

I have been confused to why she moved out so quickly. She claims that my issues have been wearing on her and she needed time away to reflect and decide if she wants to continue being married to me (I offered to sleep in the guest bedroom instead of moving out).

Fast forward:
A few days ago I learned that my wife is sexting her old female friend (the 1000+ texting mentioned above)
In our weekly counseling session, I asked her about if she was confused about our relationship because there was someone else but I did not reveal my knowledge about her texting. She laughed it off – asked me if that what I was obsessing about. She again stated we have internal issues that we need to solve and to stop looking elsewhere.

My thoughts:
I believe
· She is confused since she doesn’t know if she wants to remain solely in a male/female relationship
· She moved out quickly and was making plans to do so months ago
· I need to confront her, but I will have no proof and it will be impossible to gather since we are living in separate homes

My state:
I have been living in a constant state of despair over the last month. I still love my wife and I want our kids to grow up in a ‘normal/happy’ home. I think I am starting to come out of the shock but every day is incredibly hard. I am not sure what I can do – confront her again? Let her work things out in her own time? Move on or give it some time. I am not a weak person, but I feel like I was hit by a 2x4 and I am shocked and stunned with the turn of events. She and I have remained cordial and are keeping a good game face for the kids but I feel lost.

Thoughts/comments anyone?


Note: I saw an attorney and executed a separation agreement before she moved out

Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)

a365

Good thing you got the separation agreement in place.

I do not think you are dazed and confused at all.

You know what is going on but are afraid to admit it.

Your wife is a liar.
Your wife is a cheater. Emotionally for sure and maybe physically too!

She is right the issues in your marriage are internal.

Step up to the plate and start swinging.

File for Divorce. If your wife is not willing to be honest and work on the issues then do not prolong her nonsense.

She can cake walk all she wants but what you should be doing is working on you and your future with a woman that loves you and only you.

There is nothing wrong with being gay.

But IMO bisexual is a different issue. I feel bisexual people like your wife are selfish. They do not pick and choose, they just move between sexual partners at their convenience.

So do yourself a favor.

Do a 180. No relationship talk. Just coparent with her and let her go.

In time you will be better off for it and much happier.

Your wife needs to grow up.

HM64


Posts: 789 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 4:16 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

HM64,

Thank you. Part of the separation agreement stipulates divorce after meeting the defined waiting period. I will need to stop it if I chose to stay married.

I have been trying to 180 but it is hard in many ways.
She continues to text and email hopeful things – i.e. Don’t give up yet, I haven’t.
She is on a roller coaster and goes from being hot to cold
I am not ready to move on

One complexity is that she doesn’t know that I know about the sexting.

I have been thinking of trying to have an honest direct conversation, but I expect her to continue to lie or minimize the situation. I also expect to react negatively to me knowing and accuse me of snooping instead of admitting the truth. I have also been thinking of the forum to have the talk, us 1:1 or with the MC. I am simply horrified that we’ll be opening the can of worms and our hour will be up.

I want to stay married, so walking away or ignoring the issues will only result in divorce. I need to put everything on the table, talk about it, and then decide or at least start the long road to recovery.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Same sex affairs always toss a special kind of spanner into the equation.

To start with: From what I read then all you know is that there are 1000+ texts. The content you don’t know. You can assume they are sexting but it could be non-sexual. Do you have proof of the content? Does your WW have a history of sexting?
What is however obvious is that she is texting her old female friend excessively at the cost of the marraige. Is it a friend she had a sexual relation with?

To me there is a world of difference in being gay, bisexual or heterosexual. I know it’s simplification but IMHO a bisexual person is comparable to a woman that prefers thin dark haired men but marries a stocky bald one. Once the decision is made the choice is made to omit the other. Hetero is obvious. If she´s truly heterosexual she’s not having a physical affair with this woman. If however she is gay… Well then she is gay and nothing will change that. I think getting to the bottom of THIS issue is the key to whether your marriage should be saved or not.

Saying YOU want to save the marriage… that’s like the left hand saying it wants to clap while the right hand hangs loose. You need her participation.

You talk about proof… This is something we BS sometimes misunderstand. The “proof” we really need is enough proof to convince US. You don’t need court-grade proof, DNA, glossy photos or sworn affidavits. So if you know that she’s sexting the OW or if you feel safe assuming that 1000+ texts strongly indicate an inappropriate relationship… then go for it. Many of us have gone to bat with less than a 1000 texts and past history.

I say confront her. If you feel a need to then forewarn your MC so you can get a double session but even then… I strongly encourage you to confront your WW with the absolute base issue in the marriage: Is she capable of remaining married to a man or is she gay and should come out as a gay person.

I know an hour might sound short but IMHO this is basically what you might want to do next MC: Start by simply reiterating that previous to your marriage she had interests in women. State that you KNOW she’s interacting with the OW (you don’t need to prove this, tell her you know of the texts or anything – you don’t need to prove ANYTHING). State that although you will acknowledge that there might be factors you need to improve as a husband then the key underlying issue is whether she’s willing to commit to a monogamous relationship with you. The other issues are totally irrelevant if she is gay. Then simply ask her to commit her sexuality. Gay or not. Don’t expect an answer but tell her you expect an answer before you two can move on.
If she comes out as gay… Well that’s it.
If she refuses she’s gay then just stick to her being in an affair with OW. Just talk about it as it is a fact.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

a365, there are several of us on SI that had a spouse with a same sex affair. I am one of them. It is very confusing, not only dealing with infidelity but also dealing with a gay/bi spouse. But, this doesn't sound like it is a "new" issue if she had same sex interests before you were married.

I don't know how old you are, but all of the reading I did post discovery showed that most gay/bi people who choose to hide their sexuality do so well, until they are into their 30's. Maturity, and just tired of hiding, bring several to have to face the fear...if that makes sense. My ex started having homosexual affairs in his early 30's (but...I found out post d-day, he had a gay experience in highschool that he didn't tell me about...) and one of his AP's told me about the affair, but he was probably at least the third one.

I would confront, because it truly is not fair to you for her to continue to string you along. My ex wanted the "normal" life, he loved having the cute wife, cute kids, nice house "normal" life, and his hidden gay life. It wasn't fair to me. Three years later, he is in an open gay relationship.

It is a LOT to handle, keep posting. Infidelity is infidelity, you will find a lot of support here.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

But IMO bisexual is a different issue. I feel bisexual people like your wife are selfish. They do not pick and choose, they just move between sexual partners at their convenience.

Tons of hetero and gay people do the same. All waywards do this - moving between partners at their convenience. I don't think it matters whether the OPs have a penis or a vagina. Waywards are selfish, regardless of sexuality.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a debate on sexuality.

My WH's OW was in a committed same-sex partnership. I know it rocked her partner's world because she felt that there was nothing she could do to compete - she didn't have a penis. But what she realized is, even if she had a penis, her partner was broken and there was nothing she did or did not have that caused the A.

I'm not sure if that helps or not, a365. I wish you the best.

[This message edited by RockyMtn at 7:59 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

She blew up when I confronted her that day about who she was texting

Honest people who have nothing to hide do not "blow up" when asked simple questions like, "Who are you texting with?"

I was told I violated her boundaries, I was smothering, controlling, and had unreasonable demands for sex

She is the one whose poor boundaries have brought a third person into your marriage. So you aren't perfect. No husband is perfect, but this isn't about you. You could work on her criticisms, be more permissive, supportive, asexual--it wouldn't help. She would just find something else to slam you about. She's blameshifting so she can hide from the fact that she's lying cheater who has busted up her family.

I have been confused to why she moved out so quickly.

She moved out so she could have more space, time and privacy to cheat on you.

She again stated we have internal issues that we need to solve and to stop looking elsewhere.

You do not have issues that excuse or explain her cheating. The problems in the marriage are caused by her actions. If there were problems before she entered an affair, they were the garden variety ups and downs that every long term relationship has.

The term "internal issues" really applies to your wife. Something is deeply wrong inside her that has allowed her to break her wedding vows, put her children's security at risk and create elaborate lies about your "issues".

Marriage counseling makes no sense when one spouse is having an affair and lying about it.

It's great that you are in IC, and that you found this website. We know about the shock, confusion and pain. I don't think the gender of your wife's affair partner matters at all. She is acting like a typical blameshifting, gaslighting, heart breaking Wayward.

She laughed it off – asked me if that what I was obsessing about.

a365, you are not obsessed. You're upset because your beloved wife, the mother of your children, is lying to you.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

This may be a HUGE generalization but I think it's true...

What adult texts another adult a thousand times?

My kids send a few thousand text messages per month. They are on their phones CONSTANTLY and each message probably consists of 2-3 words (sometimes less). Not even THEY send a thousand messages to one, single person.

I don't care if it's a best, best, best friend - adults don't text another adult that frequently UNLESS something is going on.

99.9% of the time it's a relationship.

We all know that. And I think you do, too.

Don't tell her that you've seen the messages. Just tell her that you KNOW that she's doing it and that you have evidence. Then see what pours out of her mouth.

Sorry you find yourself in this boat.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Your WW moved out so she could pursue this affair; the OW may actually be living with her, have you checked this out?

I think she is trying to get this relationship to the point where she can make a choice; you or her lesbian lover. Thats why she sends e-mails telling you 'don't give up yet' Maybe she hopes the OW will tire of her or she will grow weary of this affair and the very idea of a permanent homosexual relationship. Possibly she trying to 'get it out of her system' so as to speak.

So you are in limbo while she tries to make up her mind and I don't think you have the personal strength at this time to confront. You could make her angry and prompt a choice which is unfavorable to you. Think very carefully.

The advice to confront is excellent advice if you are prepared to face the consequences and possibly kick this marriage to the curb; which is what I would do in your circumstances. She wants out and is being very cruel in pursuing her selfish interests.

Members of SI have learned through painful experience that you need to be tough with the WS and draw boundaries; you have to be prepared to let go of the marriage if your WS won't let go of the affair. You are not willing to do this at this time. If you confront your WW will get very angry and defensive; she will strike back and you may be considerably worse off.

If you are not braced to possibly to end your marriage, then wait it out. Don't gamble if you are not prepared to lose when the dice don't roll your way.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

All I can say is I am overwhelmed by the amount of support from everyone. Thank you all.

I have sent my MC a message stating that I was planning on bringing up the topic in session tomorrow and I gave her some details. I also asked for some feedback/guidance on how she would like to address.

Now to answer some questions on the replies:

Bigger: I have proof of the texts, but I also read a few and they were ‘sexting’. I am not sure who she was talking to but I am fairly sure it was her high school friend who also is bi (and married with kids). I considered reaching out to her husband and alerting him but I am planning on letting that mellow a bit. I know I would want to know.

Cmego: I am in my late 30s and she is in her early 30s. I think she has been struggling with this issue for years. She had a prior marriage and I also believe this issue was a factor in that break up. She has always commented that ‘it was her issue and she would deal with it’. Last month, it turned into my issue with smothering, but I think that is simply due to her desire for space and not get caught.

Sailorgirl: It took more than a month to realize that the majority of the responsibility is on her side. She is confused about herself and her needs. I am past the point of denial and anger. I want her to be happy either way, she just needs to decide.

LifeisCrazy: Agreed. I don’t plan to expose what I truly know and what I don’t. In the end it doesn’t matter. She can deny, which tells me she is lying and I need to move on, or she can admit and we can decide where we go next.

Ok now: Her friend is not from the area. She has been sexting but I suspect she has a deep desire to test the waters. She needs to simply come clean and tell the truth of her intentions.
I am not angry, and that feels very strange to me since I think I should be. I feel sadness for everyone esp our children.
I am prepared to give up on the marriage – I don’t think I can do much more damage than force a decision and air the secrecy and lies. I still love her, but no one should live in this suspended state.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

a365,

It sounds smart to bring this up with your MC. I hope your W gives you the respect of being honest. Remember that she chose to cheat. She could have shared her real feelings with her husband--you could have explored her sexuality together. Instead, she started sneaking around and blaming you.

I would expect you to get angry at some point--it's healthy to feel anger when someone betrays you and your kids. Maybe you feel she's not to blame because she can't help being bisexual. She certainly could have been honest, responsible and faithful while dealing with who she is.

It's compassionate of you to wish her happiness, but will she be happy with cheater OW when both of them have torn their families apart and only see their kids 50% of the time? Can she be happy with her lack of integrity? I'm sure you will eventually be happy, though, with or without her!

Also, I'd tell OW's BH. Just a simple message with a text for proof. He needs honesty, and your wives need a dose of reality.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 3:37 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

I confronted her last night

I explained that I knew she had been sexting with her friend. I also stated that we needed to discuss options if she admitted it.

She was obsessed with the details: When, how, what did you see? She threated to cancel the MC and go see an attorney.

I withheld much of the details.

She admitted she sent a few but she stated that she wasn’t serious and it was a shame that I had to see the messages without explanation. She stated we are still in a committed relationship and she has neither the time nor emotional ability now to pursue anyone or anything. She still wears her ring and she is committed to us.

We discussed the reasons for our separation and called it a night

Now… Where do I go from here? We see the MC and I sent her another note with an update to last night’s conversation so we could jump in. I still feel there is more, but verifying will be impossible.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

Her friend is not from the area. She has been sexting but I suspect she has a deep desire to test the waters. She needs to simply come clean and tell the truth of her intentions.
I am not angry, and that feels very strange to me since I think I should be. I feel sadness for everyone esp our children.
I am prepared to give up on the marriage – I don’t think I can do much more damage than force a decision and air the secrecy and lies. I still love her, but no one should live in this suspended state.

First, she has already tested the waters, and you know she is lying to you. I think that is the worst part, is knowing they are lying to you while they deny.

Second, I'm not surprised at your/her ages. It fits the timeline that I read about while struggling to understand about my ex. They want "normalcy", but it really isn't who they are...so they struggle with "the problem". My ex literally told me he felt he had the "right" to cheat on me while he "figured out" who he was.

Cheating is cheating. She is in denial, wants you and the "normal" life, and hiding away a secret life.

My ex denied for a long time. We even tried to reconcile for close to 9 months..until he cheated yet again with a man. That is when I left.

I was told the same thing during the discovery process, that he deserved privacy, I was smothering, I needed to just trust him, etc.

Bottom line, you need to take care of yourself and your children. Also, if you can, find yourself a good therapist and a good lawyer.

Keep posting, feel free to IM me if you have any questions!

[This message edited by cmego at 11:36 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

Here we are again…

I am seeing a therapist for myself and I have an attorney – we already executed a separation agreement which defines the assets and custody. She threatened last night to ‘get her own lawyer and revisit the separation agreement’ but I think that was her way of lashing out when I asked about the OW.

I have tabled the thought of reaching out to the OW husband. I know I would rather know, but I have little proof other than what I have seen and the call records of 1000s of texts back and forth (no content).


We are scheduled to see the MC tonight, and I am wondering if my spouse will show up. I have already informed the MC through email about the status and outcome of last night’s discussion.

I do not have any written proof and I so want to believe when she tells me that its nothing and the marriage issues are me smothering and controlling. However, I know – She knows and she is working hard to minimize what it is. She did admit to ‘sending a few sexts’ but it’s cheating, just not physical yet. I am certain there are hopes for her to move on to physical someday soon.

It’s funny, but I do not feel threatened by an OW. It is almost a relief knowing that there was nothing I did to drive her away. The concern I have is what if she is just seeking attention? What if the sexting was simply her way of feeling her needs and it ultimately didn’t matter if it was a man or woman? I already know the answer to this but what if the issues are as she says? Is it worth pursuing reconciliation?

We’ll we are still in therapy, and I am committed to overturning every rock but there are so few rocks left.

I feel nothing but pain and sadness as I slowly accept what is truly happening – I am losing my wife and my family is falling apart. I need to be strong at a time when you feel nothing but weakness esp for my children.

Also – does anyone have any thoughts on Anti-Depressants? The Doc proscribed me Cymbalta yesterday. I have always stayed away from medication esp Anti-Depressants. I am going through hell and feel depressed bc of the situation, not bc I have an ongoing depression issue. I simply to not want to numb out the pain since it will make things easy. I do have concerns about my performance at the work place. I am not thinking straight and working slow.

Thanks again everyone!


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Claiming to be still in a committed relationship while sexting and separating… wow. That’s like claiming to be a vegetarian while chomping down on a BigMac.

I could probably claim to be the king of exposure. But now – in your situation – I would wait. I think the real underlying issue (clarifying your wife’s sexuality) is the key issue right now.
You are getting excellent info from cmego on the sexuality issue. I strongly suggest you listen very carefully to her.

About the “written proof”. Why do you need that? Like I said earlier you only need to convince yourself.

In your social environment and family: What would the reaction be if she does come out as gay? Is there a religious or social stigma she fears? I encourage you to assure her that it’s really nobody’s concern if she IS gay. That you are perfectly willing to keep that secret, but that you really can’t be her husband any more. Marriage isn’t a competition and you don’t need a reason to give people to explain why you “lost”.

Anti-depressants are fine. They take time to kick in so start soon. Just be aware that you are taking them for a limited time and stick to that schedule. If you have a past of substance abuse then don’t use them.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, September 27th (Friday)

We saw the MC last night
In short, everything went well.

We spoke about the sexting and the story changed some – she now claims she planted messages on her phone to see if I was snooping. She is either lying or I have completely missed the mark. Second guessing must happen – I want to believe her.

As for her being gay, I think she is truly bi. She has a preference for men, but women are safer. She has had sex with women, but never a relationship.

After completing with that topic we moved on the other issues in our marriage ‘control, sex, and smothering’. We had a good exchange on those topics but I felt we just didn’t completely address the sexting.

I sent a note to the MC this morning thanking her but asking for some advice on revisiting the texting topic or letting it mellow for a while. Again, I am in a very strange place. A thin thread holds my wife and I together.

On the Antidepressants – has anyone taken Cymbalta? I have never once taken anything like it and I am very concerned what it will do to me and the issues with the side effects.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, September 27th (Friday)

a365~ I know you want to believe your wife, but that is a load of crap. She is twisting everything to be your fault, it is a classic move. Classic. We have all been treated that way.

It is called gas lighting, making your brain do strange things because you couldn't imagine doing that to someone else.

I also heard the same.exact.line. " I was making love to you...the guys were just for sex!!" Um. YEAH.

It is called denial, both for you and for her. It is a lot to wrap your brain around, I understand. You are not controlling her, you are expecting her to act.like.a.wife.

After ex's first affair was brought out, and we attempted R...I asked for the passcode on his phone and he said, "I DESERVE privacy too!!!"

I avoided the anti-depressants. I wanted to feel everything and make sure I was dealing appropriately. I tried them after my Dad died, and they made me numb...I didn't want to be numb again.

It was a long process for me to SEE the behavior that I can see now. He did everything he could to keep me in place, so his life wasn't ruined. It is mindfuckery. I can clearly SEE how she is treating you, and, as people told me as I was struggling to understand: Bottom line, she isn't straight. Put some condition into place, and if she doesn't meet them, then you have your answer.

Also, I'd say get a more aggressive therapist. Her opinion is just that...an opinion.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, September 27th (Friday)

I am going to address the "control" issue.

Do you feel like you were controlling, a365? Throughout our long term marriage this has been a running theme for my FWH. Calling me a "control freak". I would ask him, what do you mean, how am I controlling? He would never give me a specific answer, just shout at me that he was sick of me being this controlling person.

Fast forward to d-day and marriage counseling. At a MC session one day, FWH trying to point to how all my faults made him have the affair. Said how I was so controlling. I asked him to please explain to me how I am controlling because I honestly didn't know what he meant. MC told FWH to give concrete examples. FWH sat there and thought. And thought. And thought. Finally he comes up with "Milkshake doesn't let me have the tv remote control." Yeah, thats me, the control freak.

FWH felt foolish. He realized that was something he was projecting onto me. I wasn't controlling. Ok, wait, I admit, I didn't like FWH to have the remote. I have changed that "controlling" behaviour and now share the remote.

Point being, your wife trying to blame you for her behaviour. Do you agree with the MC about smothering and controlling behaviour or are they talking you into it?

eta: t/j just watched that movie this morning "Dazed and Confused", love that movie, then I come to SI and here is that topic.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:07 AM, September 27th (Friday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9403 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
IllBeFine
New Member
Member # 40691
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, September 27th (Friday)

My take on this is from the point of a BW(EA-he says, doesn't matter, I says)and someone who has several LBGT friends and relatives.
She wants out, but wants you to be the bad guy, so she can blame you.
DO NOT become the bad guy. No one HAS to be the bad guy. She is a mess and manipulative and until she wants to become real and whole and lay off the JUVENILE texting and lying(how middle school!)she will probably try to get you to fulfill her life script of bad guy/victim. Take care of yourself and your mental health. Take care of your kids and their needs.
As they get older, they will increasingly need stable and healthy support and affection. A person who would lie and manipulate the way she has so far is unlikely to be able to provide these for a child.
I have seen people in various degrees of coming to terms with their sexuality who did so without being lying, conniving narcissists.
This is all my opinion, formed from observation.
I know it sounds harsh, and I am not trying to say she is a horrible person, but right now, she is a hot mess, messing with you, lying to you, and willing to throw you under the bus, drag you out, and do it again. I hope she moves beyond this someday.

Posts: 1 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: GA
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, September 27th (Friday)

So, she planted 1,000 texts/calls? How does that even work? Is her "friend" in on it and they did all that texting and talking just to try to catch you snooping? Bizarre.

The simplest explanation is usually the truth. She was crushing on this woman and secretly sharing sexual stuff she should only share with her husband. Now, she's lying about it.

I have read hundreds of marriage crisis stories. When one spouse starts criticizing the other in a mean, blaming way, demanding space and withdrawing from sex, they are having an affair. It's never just a mid-life crisis or because the faithful spouse has "issues". There are always secrets, lies, and someone else.

I still don't think her being bi changes anything. I am attracted to a variety of people, frequently to tall, lean men. All of my ex-boyfriends were of that body type. My H is on the short and stocky side. I choose him. I forsake all others. I don't need to get my jollies with any other type of body just because I could. That's what monogamy is about.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 1:55 PM, September 27th (Friday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, September 28th (Saturday)

I hear everyone! Thank you for your support.

You are right, my MC seems very week. I feel I am the one pushing the issues and trying to get to the truth. It’s simply odd but the MC is a major part of why I sometimes think I am overstating what is really happening. I am torn about switching since we are 1.5 months into therapy and I would hate to start over.

Chicken or the egg? Again something else that I have been wracking my brain. Did the sexting come first or did it come after the decline in our relationship? I can do some research and maybe find out when the messages ramped up, but I am tell you she started sleeping with her phone about 1.5 months ago and about the same time we had the talk about smothering and need for space

We do have a timeline in place for a decision on the R. Within the next two months we are going to continue with the MC then decide if there is any hope or simply stop going.


My plan:
I am planning to come clean at the next session. I plan to expose what I know, and when I learned it. I plan to simply lay out the facts, right/wrong/indifferent and allow her to respond or not. It’s funny, I am far less concerned with the sexting, but the lying is what keeps me awake at night. We need to reach a place of honesty and stop the games.

If she is seeking attention, then that is a problem we can work on. If she is pursuing an alternate life, well I have my answer.

I sent my MC a message stating that facts and requesting guidance but she seems to not respond. Maybe she doesn’t work outside the prescribed hour or maybe she doesn’t want to give advice over email. Either way, it is very frustrating.

Meds:
Still deciding – I do not what to be numb. I, however do need to sleep and eat (down 25lbs – 13% of my body weight in 1.5 months). I need to work and I simply can not focus for very long. Plus I have never taken anything like it and I do not want to commit to the 6 months then the withdrawal. There has to be another answer. Maybe tonight, Maybe not…


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

A365,

I can share what I did after d-day to cope physically. I didn’t do anti-depressants and in retrospect that was probably a mistake. I should have taken all the help I could – including anti-d’s. But even if you do take anti-d’s then I suggest you consider the following tips.

Eat. The energy food gives you is needed right now to fight your negative feelings. So eat. I can guess you really don’t feel like eating so simply schedule feeding periods. Stop seeing it as food and look at it as medication. Right now getting food beats eating healthy (although you really should try to combine the two).
You can go to a health store and buy power shakes. Blend them in milk or water and you have a “meal”. If you don’t feel like eating in the morning then take one of those on your commute. Have a fruit before lunch; schedule it so you are nibbling at something every 2-3 hours. Some nuts, raisins, dried fruit... Don’t feel like lunch? Another power-shake, a quick and dirty hamburger… whatever. Just make sure you get some energy into your body. Although healthy is better than unhealthy then eating is more important than starving.

Exercise. To me this was the most important factor. I was already in good shape at my d-day but I upped my exercise level considerably. Even if you are a couch potato then now is the time to start walking or jogging. Take the kids in a stroller and walk for an hour. Go to a gym and lift weights. Go get the “how to do a hundred pushups in four weeks” pdf online. And the one about abs… Whatever. Just make sure you do something other than slouch on the couch when you get home feeling all sorry for yourself.

Do chores. Make a list of 20 things that need to be done around the home. Your car need totaling? Do it. Your socks need sorting? Do it. Paint the kid’s bedroom? Do it. I had a very short list – basically it was my car, my parent’s cars and my brothers car needed totaling. So those cars got waxed weekly for a couple of months! But whenever I was feeling blue, had done my run and weights and couldn’t sleep… I was out there waxing.

Any hobbies you have, have wanted or are missing out on? This is the time to get your golf-drive fixed. This is when you start fly-fishing. This is when you try skeet-shooting.

One thing I managed to do was create a haven at work. Before entering work I would sit in my car for a minute and simply concentrate on that for the next 8-12 hours my body and mind belonged to my job. I would refuse myself the “luxury” of thinking about the affair. And then – once inside – IF my mind started wandering I would remind myself of my commitment. I would refuse my mind the ability to remain in that dark area. It sounds Zen like and like a load of crock but for me it worked. It often required a number of conscious decisions to move on but I managed. It became so that I looked forwards to going to work because there I got peace (and didn’t have to wax my car!).

Like I said in the beginning. I didn’t take AD’s. But if I had to deal with the same situation again I probably would. But I would DEFINITELY go back to my original reactions and eat, exercise and divert my mind.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, October 7th (Monday)

Bigger, and everyone else, thank you for your support.
Bigger – you nailed it. Your advice was so very helpful and I am doing all the things your recommended.

Update for all of you (comment if you like)
• We are still going to counseling, wearing our wedding rings, and living separate.
• We have agreed we ‘are committed’ to each other
• We have a good relationship regarding family and the kids
• She is happy being on her own and is working on her issues that were identified with her counselor
So, in short – things are ok. If we were to do nothing else, the separation agreement would run its course, the marriage would dissolve and we would end things but remain friends? (I hate that term), but we would co-parent from separate homes. Things could be far worse, but I want more for me and my kids.

My status:
I opted not to take the Anti-Ds. I have been improving and feeling less despair over the month. The 6 month commitment, side effects, withdrawal, and plain old ‘numbness’ made me chose not to start the meds. I do however have an appointment with the Doc, and I am going to revisit any meds that require less of a commitment and drawbacks. If there is none, then that’s it.

I have been following the 180 – I have started to move on to some degree. She has noticed a difference and she even mentioned how hard the first week was for her. As I mentioned, I am still committed, but I am doing all the things I wanted and digging into all the ‘to do’ things in the home. Keeping busy is key even if is the last thing I want to do.

I am working again, my efficiently is way down and I come in everyday and I am able to focus. I do need some down time but there is a steady improvement.

I have started eating again – healthy. I am already fit, but working out and working on me helps with the emotional pain.

Dirty Details:
She has never admitted to sexting and she seems content never to discuss again. She seems to believe that the BS ‘I planted that message’ was accepted.
As I mentioned, I was less hurt with the fact that she did it but the fact she lied
I know I should never assume – but I assume she lied so she didn’t have to be the bad guy and ‘come clean’ about one of the reasons she moved from our home.

Where to go / what to do?
I need time, but I also want a decision about starting new. I also think I will not get a decision from her for some time… So I wait. That seems to be the hardest thing, not knowing if to mend and move on or wait and R.

Love is a weird thing – I am normally very strong and would force the clean break but I want my family as it was not how it is. Even though I know that I could find a partner that would be a better fit, I am willing to accept certain flaws in our relationship while continuing to work on it.

I know – this was a long post and long topic, but your responses are the closest thing to pure support.
I appreciate any feedback/guidance/thoughts.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, October 7th (Monday)

Hey Dazed,

What I’m going to post might sound contradicting but bear with me…

First of all – I’m not a great fan of separation. I have a feeling you two won’t reconcile while she’s living somewhere else. After all – how can you work on fixing things when apart? But then – that’s my POV.

Second – If you have read any of my (by most standards) numerous and long-winded posts you know of my theory of making the marriage attractive, the affair hard and leaving the marriage difficult. Well… Being separated you have limited options to do these things.

I say stick to the 180 but make sure that all and any contact you are smartly dressed, manicured and happy. Not “ha-ha” happy but not grumpy and sad. Look content as if you have accepted a tough decision and are OK with it.

Regarding the “being friends after divorce”…
I do NOT believe in making divorce tougher than it needs to be. My advice “make leaving the marriage difficult” is simply based on fact and truth. In divorce “amicable” does not mean “friendly” – it means not carrying out your wish to claw out each other eyes. Divorce is TOUGH and I haven’t heard of a single one that didn’t negatively impact both partners. However… before entering the foyer of D many people have this vision on how assets and debts will be split and way too often it’s an unbalanced picture. Way too often it’s the wife that envision living in the house, having the kids and the ex coming over Sunday morning to mow the lawn and clean the gutters. After all – he doesn’t have any chores in the single bedroom bachelor pad with the microwave and plastic cutlery he got out of the marriage…

So simply be realistic:
No – we won’t afford to keep the house. We will both need to relocate.
No – we can’t afford both cars.
Yes – the loan on this car has to be put in your/my name so you/I won’t be driving it after that.
No – we won’t share house for the kids. I plan on getting on with life and my next partner won’t want to live with my ex.

Get it? Look around you. Probably know more than one person that’s divorced. How many of them are in intense contact with the ex? A good co-parenting relationship… that’s it. You two won’t be mixing with the same social groups, your friends will divide themselves appropriately and within a year you two will meet at birthdays and school events.
When she talks about being “friends” then be realistic to her: Nice picture but how many divorced people do YOU know that are “friends”? We will be co-parents but if this ends in divorce Mr. a365 plans on emotionally detaching from this marriage and creating a new life.

Keep up with the exercise. Often then shortly after separation people tend to start dating and all that stuff. Keep away from that – you two are still married and there is still hope. Just focus on you, your kids, your work…


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, October 7th (Monday)

Hi a365

I can relate to your situation. My WS had a same sex affair.

Having just read all the posts,sadly there is only one thing I can say;

I think you are being played.

Living separately - just an excuse to carry on the affair.

You are controlling - an excuse to make you the bad guy

the planted 1000 texts - a lie to cover up her tracks

wear the wedding rings/committed to each over - you are either plan B if the affair doesn't work or it is her way of holding onto the picture of family and kids that you can not in most cases have with a same sex partner.

need privacy - we all should to live our lives as an open book. There no such thing as privacy in a marriage

I have had all these excuses.

Ask yourself deep down, am I right?

By all means disagree with me.

[This message edited by Snowy at 10:04 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


Posts: 153 | Registered: Mar 2007
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)

Again, thank you all

More details:
I did not want the separation, she did. She stated I was smothering and she needed time apart to work on us individually. She signed a year lease and is living in a townhome ~1/2 mile away.

I get it – I could very well be playing the fool. She could be pursing another relationship and I am simply waiting in the wings as back up. This is what is bothering me about all of that: We are still in counseling. I still love her, She is still the mother of my children, we are still married, and she has denied that she is cheating stating she isn’t interested (no emotions left).

I do believe she was sexting and she flat out lied about that topic. I do not know the reason(s) she lied, but I am sure it has something to do with not being the bad guy and her minimization to the fact that she was doing it i.e., it was nothing but ‘playing’ so why own it? The woman is 1000s of miles away, married, and where would it go anyway? Etc…

I have no delusions about the divorce – we will not be friends but we will co-parent. It is a F-ed up solution but better than any other alterative. I get it, but I am not quite sure she does. Her family tends to go through multiple marriages and mixed families are the norm (his/hers/ours).

I am working hard to maintain a façade of contentment. I keep telling myself that she knows what I want and she needs to sort things out for herself. I remain hopeful that things will work out. I also know hope isn’t the solution. She needs to figure things out. I need to figure things out. We need to do it in a timely manner – the hanging on and waiting is the most damaging,

So, I am continuing to wait. I am not dating, I am not looking. I am in counseling, she in counseling, and we both go to counseling together. I need to become more patent and allow things to run their course.

Here is a confusing topic: We still do things as a family. We will take a Sunday morning and spend it together doing family stuff. I don’t know what that means if anything but I take it when I can. I love time with my kids and I would never deny them time with me if offered.

So… Again, where do I go from here? I am waiting, it is very painful, and I hurt for my kids. I keep hoping she wakes up, realizes she screwed up, and comes home. Who knows, right? At some point, I need to push the issue, but when is that? Months?


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)

I agree you are showing patience but I interpret that as passive behavior; waiting for things to happen as opposed to controlling and defining your own passage through life.

Your wife is probably pursuing an affair, but the important issue is the lack of value she places on you and the marriage. If it wasn't for the kids she would be long gone. She plainly has no love left for you and can't even tolerate living in the same house.

You see the kids 50% of the time? so you are apart from your family? Might as well be divorced as being forced to endure this separation.

One suggestion; give it until Xmas then force the issue. Either she comes home or you file. Absence doesn't necessarily make the heart grow fonder and if she is happy living away from you now, then she could be when the year long lease runs out. All you are doing is wasting your life waiting for her.

Right now she is calling all the shots while complaining about your controlling behavior! She may be trying to define her sexuality and how to proceed with her sexual future, but she's also wasting your time. That shouldn't be tolerated.

As for your assertion that she needs to realize that she screwed up and return home that is just naive thinking. If you get her back it won't be achieved by sitting on your ass and passively waiting. Set boundaries and limits and send a message that you will not step beyond them.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)

A few further points. This separation obviously is distressing for the children, which makes me think that if your WW is prepared to put the kids through this, there has to be some other strong reason other than time away from you.

If she is exploring her sexuality, then she would need to experience both male and female 'encounters' to help her define her ultimate preference. After all, from her way of thinking, it could just be you that she has developed an aversion to and not other guys. The lesbian lover, a thousand miles away, is a diversion to 'prove' she isn't screwing around. All that fake, planted sexting focusses your attention on this far away, inaccessible lover and not on some new partners that she may be engaged with. At least if you suspect that she may be seeing other partners, while you have the kids for example, then this is something you can investigate.

All the more reason to end this separation soon. Time away from each other is not going to mend your marriage and will permit further cheating.

[This message edited by OK now at 9:28 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)

A YEARS lease and you have a plan to sit down and discuss the future and evaluate the results of the separation in two months… Doesn’t add up to indicate your wife is seeing this separation as a temporary solution…
Look – sometimes we need to read and see more than what is being said to understand what’s going on. Right now your wife is slapping your cheek with her left hand while reaching out with her right to shake your hand. All you notice is the gesture that you are hoping for.


Does your wife have a tendency to avoid difficult confrontations or resolutions?
Does she have a tendency to be dreamy and/or unrealistic?


Could it be that she’s avoiding facing her sexuality?
Could it be that she’s avoiding coming out?
Could it be she’s avoiding pulling the trigger on the marriage?

I have this theory that infidelity can become inactive without it dying. Like you say – OW is thousands of miles away so yes, chances of them being together are low. Maybe even she and WW barely communicate… But that’s not really an issue. Your wife is still in infidelity mentality. It’s inactive but still there and it’s destined to resume.
You two are in therapy and have a game-plan of sorts in place. By all means stick to it. Wait these two months before forcing the issue. But your WW 12 month lease tells me already what her reply will be. After 2 months she’ll delay for a couple more. Then some more. Then some more… As long as she gets away with it.

Please note I’m not suggesting you don’t do ANYTHING at all. Use this time to prepare. Get your ducks in a row. Get reality into the picture and be mentally and physically ready to push the issue to resolution at the end of the initial two months.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)

All we have to go on is what you share with us in writing..
Based on the thoughts and facts that you shared, I would be inclined to think that your WW wants to test the waters with her big toe so to speak..If the waters are too cold to take a full dive, she has you to fall back on..
FTN (Fu^& that noise)
If at all possible I would file..
If one day she gets her head out of her rear and you are still around than it will be up to you if you want her back in your life in some way..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1136 | Registered: Nov 2011
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)

There is a saying on here "sometimes you have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it."

I think you are being way too nice and you can't nice her back.

She moved out? Signed a year lease? Where do the kids live now? With you or with her?

You don't deserve this. Are you in IC? If not, I would suggest you find someone for you. Just you. You deserve more. Hugs to you.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)

I echo the advice about eating, exercising and having a healthy distraction as an outlet..

I need to follow my own advice better..

But you know what is the top blues buster for me?

It is having access to some kind of a social life....A companion, somebody who lives close by who wants your company.. Somebody who will call you on the spur of the moment and often and say "Hey, lets go for a run or a coffee" Somebody who you feel comfortable doing the same.

I think that having small pleasurable moments to look forward to get us through the tough spots... Having companionship with people who like us, care about us, support us will do a lot to help us lose the fear of making difficult decisions that we need to make..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:04 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1136 | Registered: Nov 2011
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)

Passive behavior? I have been accused of being controlling – the opposite of passive. I have backed off and allowed her time to sort things out. We do have a timeline that we would agree to make a decision by Christmas. I think I need to define what that decision should be – give up or try again.

I agree – if we didn’t have the kids she would be long gone. But I also think I wouldn’t have suffered through as much and would have walked last month. I do have the kids 50% of the time. We are both in an area where no other family is close by so it is just us.

As for filing? We are as far as we can go. This state requires 1 year separation before filing for a divorce. We have a separation agreement which outlines the divorce, assets and custody. Nothing more to do but wait.

My social life: I have made some good friends through this and breathed new life into some old relationships. It is a shame it takes such an event, but it did.

Everyone here seems to think she is cheating – I am feeling the same way. Not physically, but emotional with some lead in on the physical side one day. Part of me wants to simply ‘blow it up’ – dump the truth on everyone including her family. ‘My wife has moved out to pursue a lesbian relationship and she is in complete denial’. I however value some relationship with the mother of my children. I also am not 100% - beyond a reasonable doubt but there is some hope left.

I have an IC, and we have an IC, she has an IC. I thought about going in alone to chat with our IC this week and trying to strategize what we should be getting from the sessions. I feel we doing nothing but wasting time.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)

My ex had gay affairs. I also "protected him" for a long time...."for the kids" and "for his job". I told no one the real reason we separated. It was one of the worst decisions I made, because I was programmed to protect him.

It was a relief when I finally realized it was no longer my job to protect him. Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. It took a while for me to be able to do that, but eventually it became easier.

From the outside, it sounds like she is getting everything she wants, and you are getting nothing. You are waiting for her, and that is the worst place to be in. She is controlling everything. YOU need to think about making a decision. What is the line? My line was if he cheated again..which he did...and I left and never looked back. You don't know if that is happening because you are living separate. She is setting up the "We TRIED, but we just weren't getting along....".

We are all telling you this because we've played the "game" too. I went through 9 months of false R. He made about a 50% effort in R...at best. He wouldn't come on SI, he would sit in counseling and say, "I'm great! I don't need to look around my past!", he didn't want to give me his phone passwords and it got to be "why can't you just get OVER this??".

I felt like *I* couldn't be myself for fear of what he would do. Just like she is now telling you. You can't do what feels natural to YOU because you are too scared to lose her. That, is crap. It just is. It made me feel more terrible that he couldn't handle my questions and anger, he wanted to "rug sweep" and not talk about it. If I brought it up, then he would huff and puff and stomp around and just tell me to "get over it".

I just see a lot of that in your posts. She is controlling everything, and that is not good. She DID cheat, you HAVE the proof. Emotional or not, it is cheating.

To me, if you come on SI and ask for advice, you know something isn't right.

(((a365)))


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)

Sounds as if you have a good game plan. Since you have to endure a year of separation before filing for divorce, you can better prepare yourself for a possible future without her.

I would reopen old friendships, male and female, and build a social life for yourself. She has forced you into partial isolation; it would serve her right if you moved on and didn't wish to reconcile after the 1 year separation. That would be my objective. She is essentially refusing to work on the marriage and letting it die of neglect.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)

There is something I wish to pick up on.

[quote]I get it – I could very well be playing the fool.[/quote]

This you are not.

You are simply a nice guy trying his best to understand and handle a f***** s***** situation.

We have all been there.

Don't beat yourself up. You didn't create the situation.


Posts: 153 | Registered: Mar 2007
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Again everyone, Thank you.

You have all been there and you can see what is being played out.
I believe I am plan B
I believe she is very confused

I would like to have a very frank and realistic conversation about this topic but I know it will be met with lies and great resistance

So… What to do?
Option 1: Cut it off, walk away, and never look back
Option 2: Draw some clear lines, clear dates, discuss expectations, and honor them when/if they come
Option 3: Pretend that it isn’t happening (or believe my wife that it isn’t happening)

I like Option 2:
We have a separation agreement so the divorce will happen in a little less than a year – all details are clear, defined, and agreed upon. So if we do nothing, then we will have what we have now – it will just become official.

I want to have a conversation to discuss:
1. Does she want to be married anymore
2. If so, does she want to be married to me
If 1 and 2 are yes, then we start there
3. What does she need to see in order to resume our lives as Man/Wife
4. At what point do we agree is a fair time to see those things
5. What would our future relationship look like?

I am trying not to push too hard since she is confused, but I need her to make some decisions or at least make a commitment to make them. It’s the hanging around, not knowing, is what sucks the most. I don’t want her to leave, but is she is going to go – then go already.

Being played? Maybe, probably, but what if not? I owe it to my kids to try everything until I can no longer go.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

I think your plan is fine and realistic.
I think you too can benefit from the separation for the next couple of months.
I think this time can give you resolve to see things through, whether that saves your marriage, your sanity or both.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Something you may want to think about.

What happens if she wants to go with option 1 or 3?


Posts: 153 | Registered: Mar 2007
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

I am with Snowy..Have a plan in place, have friends and emotional support ready and in place, Just be ready for things not to happen the way that you wish or pray for them to happen....


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1136 | Registered: Nov 2011
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 2:23 AM, October 11th (Friday)

How are things going?

Posts: 153 | Registered: Mar 2007
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, October 11th (Friday)

A365

Sadly I think your biggest issue in your marriage is your wife.

I like your plan.

Since you have to wait until you can D then use that time for you to be in a better position mentally and physically.

Your wife is confused. How can she not be. She not only lies to you but to herself.

Since you are in this holding pattern make the best of it.

HM


Posts: 789 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 5:54 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

Good morning all

Old News
1. I have tried to give my WW the benefit of the doubt
2. We have 3 therapist, his/her/ours and we have been going

New Developments
1. She lied again
2. She flew out to meet someone this weekend in a different city and I do not know who
3. She bought the tickets almost a month ago

I have proof of the flight and the lie in email where she said she would be


Now, what to do?
I was upset and angry at first but now I am simply feeling disappointed and ?relived?. I know I need to tell her that we both need to move on. My first reaction was to tell everyone, her parents, all friends, etc ‘My wife has decided to cheat and break up our marriage’ but I calmed down and thought about the future. We still need to co-parent and deal with each other at our children’s events so…

At our next MC session (next Saturday), I am planning on breaking it off. I am going to tell her:
1. Nothing about what I know about her lies and secret trips
2. We need to ‘work on ourselves so let’s stop MC’
3. Call me if she is ready to start a new

This will give a clean break and allow me to heal instead of waiting around. She is a very confused woman; she is selfish, cold, and simply needs to grow up. Adult relationship fail, but when they fail the adults are open and honest.

This closes the door but allows her to knock one day in the future. At that point, I will be in a far different place and I am certain I will not want her back.

Thanks for being here all! Now to focus on the kiddos! It’s morning and they are hungry!


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

3. Call me if she is ready to start anew

Consider deleting this line; don't imply that you will be waiting around for her change of mind. Tell her its over and your'e moving on and hope to find a lady who prepared to dedicate herself to you and your family.

Now you may feel differently; you might consider taking her back if she dropped her bisexual tendencies, but don't let her know this. She needs to face the end of the marriage as a result of her actions, not being free to explore her sexuality while you and the kids wait patiently at home.

I cannot stress this enough, you must not give her the opportunity to cake-eat because of indecision on your part. She has to really believe that you are going to end the marriage, even if you are holding out some hope she will come to her senses. If she thinks you are bluffing and will take her back out of fear of losing the marriage and distress to the kids, then my friend, she will continue this game of fucking up your life until the children leave for college. The she will also depart.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

OkNow,
Thank you for the tip – It has been another hard weekend. For some reason, in my mind it feels worse than it truly is. Spouses walk sometimes – nothing I did, she just needed to do so for whatever reason.
I hurt for my kids, but the funny thing is she doesn't seem to hurt at all.

I need to suck it up, move on, and move up.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

Your wife is gay. Period. Trying to make this marriage work is the round peg / square hole quandrum. It will never succeed.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
LeopoldB
Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

Sorry you have to go through this. The following may sound harsh. If it is way off base, please dismiss it as gibberish from someone who had to confront his own WW's aberrant behavior. As you are not getting the truth from your W, speculation is fair game.

- This is not strictly about your W's sexual orientation. Your W does not love men... not the way a wife and mother loves her husband. She does not even really like men. However, she may not love women either. Instinctively, she pursues sex. She does not make love.

- You are not a control freak. Your wife operates at a reptilian level. It is not a matter of her being a bad person. She does what she feels she needs to do to survive (and protect her children). She acts purely from instinct. She is cold blooded. Asking her what she needs from your marriage is like asking a lizard to show emotion. They do not know what the words mean. They do not even know that your sounds are words.

- Your W wanted children and a semblance of normalcy. A nest. She did not get that from H #1. You gave her what she wanted.

- The M intimacy dropped off once she had what she came for. Few species in nature practice lifelong monogamy. She spent two full breeding seasons with you.

- The reality is that she may not even feel strong emotional attachment to another woman. Or to anything. She likely comes across as very logical, rational, instrumental, plans well, is goal-oriented. She may be good with numbers and statistics. Those traits are valuable and highly prized in some contexts. They make her attractive. She is likely well-thought of.


I am sorry that I have no advice to offer and I hope I am wrong. Best wishes.



Posts: 184 | Registered: Sep 2013
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 6:53 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

LeopoldB,
It sounds fairly accurate – she is not a bad person but she simply lacks emotions and empathy. Life is about her, no one else.

I also believe I am not a control freak – I am simply reacting to my environment.

Bigger,
I don’t think she is gay, I think she doesn’t have a preference. She is in it for the attention and sexual need – nothing more.

All,
I have decided to broach the subject of quitting MC this weekend (while she is on her trip). I can’t keep it inside any longer. I think it is time to move on since she already has.

I also plan to tell her that I need to limit my interactions and time with her, that means no more dinners, long stop overs while exchanging the kids, or ‘special event’. I need my time to move on and heal and it will be an open wound for a while.

Finally, I am going to suggest we tell everyone. She has been keeping it a secret.

I am plan B – it’s time she is forced to make a choice.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Gently...

I am plan B – it’s time she is forced to make a choice.

Do you want to be with someone who sees you as "Plan B"?


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

I wholeheartedly agree with dropping MC immediately. This is for committed couples who are trying to work through their issues. Apparently, your WW is not of this mindset.

Telling everyone? That is your decision to make. Just remember that you cannot put the genie back in the bottle, once it has been opened. I believe that you should tell ones that can help be your support system, but beware of shouting from the rooftops just so people know. But I think that you already know that.

You do need to focus on yourself. You need emotional distance from your WW to gain more clarity. I agree with stopping the social activities; she wants to remain "best friends", and that is not going to let you heal right now. If she thinks that the door will be open for her in the future, then she will continue with this mindset. She needs to know that she can choose whatever path she desires, but you are only in one of them.

Call her out on her lying. Stop MC today. Show her consequences for her actions.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 1980 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

I spoke to WW today on the phone with full intent on breaking things off.

She lied about where she was and what she did this weekend

I called her out on her lies, told her I knew the truth and called her out on the sexting.
She admitted to lying about the sexting but wouldn’t tell me who she was talking to
She admitted she lied about her weekend but wouldn’t tell me where she was (even though I knew)

She tried transferring and stating she lied b/c of my controlling issues – I called BS.
She stated she still wanted to remain married to me
She stated she never once cheated on me, and she was focusing on herself for once in her life

I backed off dropping MC for the moment while I absorbed the discussion

Now what? We have a MC session scheduled for next weekend.
I think it is over, but I see no harm in waiting a few days

Strike while the iron is hot and move on? If she lied about something, what is to prevent her from lying about everything?

Pain and despair coming this week


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

a, stop asking for your WW's input. Just stop. And inform her that you are stopping and don't put it out there as if it's a matter of debate. As of right now, it isn't. She *vapored* on you and lied about it.....


edited: I had only read pg 3 when I responded. I've now read all of it. Gather your evidence -- the 1000's of text messages, her *disappearing* act without telling you where she was or who she was with....and take it to the MC session with you. Not because you want help from this MC (who seems totally ineffective), but ..... well, just because. Lay it ALL out for your WW and tell her that she comes clean and tells you what the hell she's been doing and that YOU are absolutely NOT *in* for being her *sugar daddy*.....OR you are absolutely and unequivocally DONE. At this point, she doesn't get to start bitching about you, your controlling ways, or any type of *marriage* complaints that she has. If her or MC tries to go that way.....shut.it.down.immediately.

Stop this bullshit, a.....


edited again to add: if she tries to tell you that she *planted* those messages you saw? Walk.Out.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 7:44 PM, October 13th (Sunday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

Note: I talked things out with a friend.

Clear objective for both must be R

Plan going forward: I need to lay the framework or walk.
No more texting whomever she was sexting – ever – about anything
No more travel without agreement from both of us
No more lies

She can work on her, I can work on me


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

She stated she still wanted to remain married to me

Does she act as if she does?

I need to suck it up, move on, and move up.

Sometimes things just don't work. You can try and analysis all you want, but it doesn't bring you any closer.

It is hard and is not your first choice, but you need to do what is best for you.


Posts: 153 | Registered: Mar 2007
LeopoldB
Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

a365,

Here is the story. Your W does not want R. Your W will never truly R with you. However, it serves her purpose to simulate an R. So the only question is whether you too can take solace in a false R where you both rug sweep. This is not necessarily a bad outcome. In many ways, I wish I had chosen this scenario rather than D. You can have a very decent home life, wife, and children. It could be just as good or better than 80% of other marriages. Your W is expert at simulating a healthy relationship. Do you really want to dismiss a satisfying 80% solution with kids for a long shot at 100% that may never come true? She is great in bed. That is an asset that should not be taken lightly. She will never give you a hard time because she doesn't really care about you. There are millions of men who would take that deal and trade places with you. I say the following just as joke, but if you want to experience a 3-some with 2 hot women, she will do that for you. Just remember, you would be making a deal with the devil. If I had to do it all over again, I might just take that deal.


Posts: 184 | Registered: Sep 2013
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

A page or so back you were talking about asking her if she wanted to be married to you and if so then:
3. What does she need to see in order to resume our lives as Man/Wife
4. At what point do we agree is a fair time to see those things
5. What would our future relationship look like?

See, This is all wrong to me. How about -
3. If you want to be married to me - this is what I require of a wife of mine -
I/C
Honesty
Transparency - all passwords, accesss to phones (I'm sure you are more than happy to provide the same to her) etc.
Accountablility - where she spends her time and with who
N/C - with all sexting and affair partners - whom you are entitiled to know via the trnasparency and honesty listed above

I could go on, and on about what I would require - but the point is - you are entitled to what YOU need from your W if she decides she wants to R. She is no more special than any wayward, and you are not controlling - that is bullshit fogspeak designed to make you back off and demand nothing of her. I am going to guess if you keep up the soft sell approach to R, you are going to be miserable with the type of R that you two will have.

Who cares if she tries to blame shift and call you controlling...just tell her if you were so darn good at controlling her - she wouldn't be living in a bachelor pad and having affairs. See, nobody seems to be controlling her behavior - she's the only one who possibly could ad she's choosing not to.

[This message edited by JustWow at 9:15 PM, October 13th (Sunday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3581 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)

My WW and I talked again yesterday.
She admitted she was sexting (after I disclosed how I knew)
She wouldn’t disclose who she was sexting but stated it was over and she would contact them again (I have the number)
She admitted to lying about this weekend’s whereabouts only after I gave her overwhelming proof that she was lying (she took a flight out of town)
She stated I had no right to know what she did on her weekends since we were separated
She stated over and over that she did not cheat, but only spent the time reconnecting with friends
We spoke about ending MC, but agreed to try a little longer (I suspect she will not go this week)
She said I was being obsessive and needed to trust her (yeah, after she admitted lying)

I am still in love with her, so I have a weakness
I want a whole family for my kids and I still have some hope we can work through this

I stated I would give this one more month, that’s all I had left
After that month, we need to start in on R or quit
If she lied again, I quit
If she texted again (I no longer have a way to check), then I quit
She would not agree to full disclosure (I feel something else is hiding in the closet)

She called me this morning and said we needed to talk again tonight
She said she was distressed yesterday and needed to revisit certain things (got her story straight?)
I wonder how tonight will pan out

I suspect I will not sleep again.
I am down 30lbs in 3 months (way skinny for me)
The effects are taking their toll – I need to get past this and heal
Seeing the Doc again tomorrow about meds – I think I need a little help, at least for my kids’ sake

This really sucks – all of it.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

Yes, it does suck.

But...how do you FEEL knowing she is continuing to lie to you?

She is hiding a WHOLE bunch of stuff, I have no doubt.

I understand how hard it is to leave someone you love, with small children at home. Many of us have had to do that. I tried for months to get my ex to pull his head out of his ass for our family. Bottom line, he just didn't want to...and went back to cheating with men. It was a horrible decision to make, but ultimately I knew the best thing to do was to end the marriage and go our separate ways. Co-parent the best we can.

You can love her, but you also deserve love back. Not 1/2 a relationship, or one where she is doing whatever she feels like. YOU deserve to be treated well too.

She stated I had no right to know what she did on her weekends since we were separated
She stated over and over that she did not cheat, but only spent the time reconnecting with friends

My guess would be she is going to try to lie her way through those statement. Based on those two statements, she is not trying to save the marriage, not yet at least.

Hang in there.

Take z-quil to sleep and try to eat. Anything. Anything that looks good, eat it.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

Could it be your wife has someone she’s confiding in?


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5484 | Registered: Sep 2005
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

She would not agree to full disclosure (I feel something else is hiding in the closet)

Read that statement aloud. Better yet, say it out loud while looking in a mirror. What does the guy on the other side of the glass tell you? I'm serious about trying that. Do it as an exercise. Then listen, really listen to yourself. Make sure you look him in the eyes.

EAT! Drink supplements, whatever. I was right there with you on the weight loss thing. About a 15% reduction in body weight at three months. It's not healthy. Chocolate milkshakes helped.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2541 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
IndianDreams
New Member
Member # 40991
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

I'm new here but thought as a bi woman myself I might throw my ten penneth in the pot.
I am bi and have NEVER cheated. This whole 'exploring my sexuality' stuff is utter shite. It's like saying I felt this need to explore other dick. Its nothing more than an excuse and one I would not accept. I didn't choose to be born bi. I did choose to never cheat...simples.


It wasn't my fault; my bucket was broken
NC = no new hurts

Posts: 38 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: England
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

An interesting post from LeopoldB and he makes quite a few valid points; you could take his advice, give up on love, accept that your wife would cheat occasionally, the marriage would probably end when the kids left home and the sex would be a succession of quickies. Its not a bad deal if you consider that the kids would be cared for in a unified family and your physical needs would be met.

I suspect its either that or divorce; she doesn't care for you, doesn't respect you, but wants to keep the family intact. LeopoldB's option is worth considering if the childrens welfare is your main concern. Who knows, your wife may change her mind in the forthcoming years and invest back into the relationship..


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
a365
New Member
Member # 40770
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, December 1st (Sunday)

Hello all, it’s been some time since I have written. I thought I needed to provide an update to all those that made comments when I went from finding out to now.

Summary: We have discontinued the MC – She has given up and stated that it is the way I make her feel. When we talk, she feels bad.

In the past, I have caught her texting the same number 1000s of times a month, sexting that number, lying about where she was (She flew out of town for the weekend)

In the end, this hurts like nothing else and I feel for my kids but it is time to move on. Or at least take a break, re-center, and focus on myself and my kids.

I am not sure where that leaves me – If you have any advice on my next steps, I am all ears. I know another woman would feel good, but I might need some time to recover/heal/and become a better person.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Topic Posts: 63