SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Wayward Side
User Topic: New here and needing help.
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

(New to this forum) I've been a member of SI since 2009 as a BS. My FWH had an affair that lasted 1 1/2 years with a co-worker.

I have been very good friends with someone long distance for 2.5 years. We have supported each other in our marriages,with reconciliation,with our dd's, work, and daily struggles.

We've had a platonic relationship and have never met in person. We've talked on the phone on rare occassions, when one or the other is struggling ,in order to offer advice, support and encouragement to keep going. (His wife had an affair that lasted for 7 years with his best friend). We email daily about life, our kids sports. We joke and laugh and share vacation stories.

Last Friday we were talking like we normally do, discussing what we had planned with our families for the upcoming weekend and he flirted a little bit and the next thing you know the conversation moved to the phones and we started texting-sexting. It continued Saturday, we didn't speak on Sunday and then we started up again Monday. By Tuesday morning we were both sick, him physically sick me breaking out in hives and both of us wondering what in the hell??

He called me and sobbed with regret and guilt and we decided to either take a break from the friendship and refocus or go completely NC from one another.

Even though it might be hold the record for the world's shortest non physical affair, we both realize that we crossed a line we both wish we wouldn't have.

He agree's that we need to take a break but doesn't want to go NC forever.

But this isn't about him, it's about me and I need some advice...2x4's, whatever.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Even thought it was 'the shortest non PA ever', it was still crossing the line, cheating and probably an EA before the sexting even started.

I don't think you should plan on NC for 'just awhile', NC has to be permanent. This is your OM. Do you want your H to go back to contact with his OW?

Also, have you told your H about this?


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37246 | Registered: Sep 2007
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Hi Phoenix,

It sounds like you have been having an EA for 2.5 years, not just when the sexting started. I know Shirley Glass's book "Not Just Friends" is often talked about here on SI, you should read it (if you haven't already).

Have you told your H?


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Snap! AN

[This message edited by ophelia24 at 3:40 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

No, not yet.

AN: I know what I did crossed the line. I thought I made that clear in my first post and because of that chose to come and post in the WS forum. I don't think quantifying the actions is minimization on my part.

EA? I hadn't really thought about that. My husband is aware of the friendship and over the years I've talked with him about our conversations. I haven't
shared anything with the "OM" that I haven't shared with my husband. We've not professed our love for one another or a desire to run away together. We both are interested in continuing to work on our marriages.

Of course I wouldn't want my husband to contact his AP.

I've read the book "Not Just Friends Book". I read it when
I discovered my husband's LTA.

Edited because I answered the same question twice.

[This message edited by Phoenix519 at 3:46 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, September 26th (Thursday)


My husband is aware of the friendship and over the years I've talked with him about our conversations.

Gently - your husbands own boundaries aren't too solid and he would have thought it was fine because of the no physical contact.

However, you were still sharing with another man, building a connection with him for over 2 years, which is why it went from 'platonic' to sext talk in a second. You will need to be honest with yourself about what was going on for you. Because something was obviously. If you were only "just friends" then your reaction to his flirting and then sexting should have been complete horror, and then told him so. And then told him you can no longer be friends due to this breach of boundaries. That's why boundaries are so important, they protect US, and they protect those we love.

I'm learning that the hard way.




“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

and the next thing you know the conversation moved to the phones and we started texting-sexting.

I haven't shared anything with the "OM" that I haven't shared with my husband.

Your sounding very casual about this. If it was as you said - you shared nothing with the OM that you haven't shared with your H - then why haven't you told your H about this?

And not professing love or having a desire to run away together makes one bit of difference.

[This message edited by SandAway at 3:52 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

AN: I know what I did crossed the line. I thought I made that clear in my first post and because of that chose to come and post in the WS forum. I don't think quantifying the actions is minimization on my part.
Minimizing is your word, not mine. I never said that, but often the things we get defensive about deserve some introspection.

We've talked on the phone on rare occassions, when one or the other is struggling ,in order to offer advice, support and encouragement to keep going. (His wife had an affair that lasted for 7 years with his best friend). We email daily about life, our kids sports. We joke and laugh and share vacation stories.
To me, this screams EA, but that isn't my call to make.

How did you meet him?


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37246 | Registered: Sep 2007
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

EA? I hadn't really thought about that.

How could you not? You emmailed each other daily for 2.5 years. I don't even communicate with my bff that much and I've known him for 30 years.

My husband is aware of the friendship

Was he aware of the extent of the friendship? The daily emails? The phone calls? Etc.....?

Who's going to contact your OM's BS to tell her what he's done?


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13722 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Sandaway: I don't think the physical reaction I've had implys that I'm taking this casually although my wording might make it seem that way. I'm trying to sort this out for myself at the moment and trying to decide what to do next. I want to understand this.

AN: Please elaborate on why that screams EA? I'm not disputing it, just need to understand all of this better. In my mind, I think that if the sexting hadn't come to an abrupt stop, it would have led to an emotional affair and then possibly to a physical one.

My husband described to me that he and his AP were friends, like a friendship with anyone else male or female. Then the flirting began, then the sexting and along with that came the emotional affair for several months and then about 7 months later the all out physcial in love till we die affair started up.

I have absolutely no romatic feelings for this person and haven't had in the time I've known him and don't now.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

I have absolutely no romatic feelings for this person and haven't had in the time I've known him and don't now.

Then how did you come to be flirting and sexting? What was going on for YOU.


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Lieshurt: Yes, believe it or not he is aware of the daily communication. In fact, he suggested I find someone that I could talk to and get support for the fallout of his affair. And Yes, the OM's wife is also aware that we are friends and communicate often.

I guess I likened it to having family because I have none, zero, nada. Nothing. My parents are dead and siblings might as well be. We send each other birthday cards and homecoming pictures and share sports scores. I vent about work, he vents about work. We talk about our spouses and what's worked in each other's relationships or in the healing process and what's not.

Mabye that's why I can't see past this being an EA. I thought there had to be some type of romantic attachment or involvement or it had to interfere with our primary relationships, which it hasn't. Up until Friday and here I am less than a week later knowing I've done wrong and seeking help.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

double post

[This message edited by Phoenix519 at 4:14 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

And Yes, the OM's wife is also aware that we are friends and communicate often.

Is she aware that you are now the OW in her marriage?

In fact, he suggested I find someone that I could talk to and get support for the fallout of his affair.

Why didn't you find a woman? There are plenty of women on this site who would have helped you. Given this is an infidelity site and we post so often about the "slippery slope", why would you have ever considered turning to a man for support?

[This message edited by lieshurt at 4:18 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13722 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

I'm wondering where you met him since you've never met in person.

I think sharing all that with a member of the opposite sex constitutes an EA. And the frequency of the contact, like Lieshurt said. Who has time for all that?

And I completely agree with Ophelia that if it were just a friendship you would have reacted in horror to the sexting idea. This is what makes it evident that boundaries were weak on both ends.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37246 | Registered: Sep 2007
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Then how did you come to be flirting and sexting? What was going on for YOU

^^ Great question. That's what I'm trying to figure out.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

We talk about our spouses and what's worked in each other's relationships or in the healing process and what's not.

Did you talk to him about your husbands A? You posted this week about FB and the OW - did you discuss this stuff with him? Does his W know that he talks about his M?


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

or it had to interfere with our primary relationships

It has.

EA stands for Emotional Affair. You have been sharing intimate details about your lives and relationships with each other. This builds intimacy, which then makes it very easy to slip into exactly what happened, flirting and sexting.

As I asked before, what was going on for you when it turned to flirting and then YOU participated in sexting with him. It was a conscious choice you made. Because there was another one to be made. And you didn't. Why?


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

I abosolutely agree that boundaries were weak on both ends. They weren't always and for the majority of our friendship. I'm not sure when I began to let my guard down really.

And yeah, I talked to my mom every day just the exact way I talked to my OM when she was alive and my sister as well before she passed away. Her birthday was September 18 and my anniversary is September 30 and those two things always send me to triggerville. Sounds like a cop out but it's what I can think of off the top of my head.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

As with every WS situation, you wouldn't have crossed the line if you didn't want to. Responding with anything less than rejection or horror to his advance is proof positive of this.

He is not a friend of your marriage, as regret laden as his words may be now. You both were getting more out of the attention you gave each other than the supposed marital support you were offering.

You are asking for advice. We are all saying the same thing. Come clean to your BH and OM's newly minted BW. Go NC. Anything less implies that you want special rules or allowances. Right and wrong doesn't work like that.

It's your friend or your marriage. Your choice.


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 17021 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

How did you meet him?

Please answer AN's question.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13722 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Did you talk to him about your husbands A? You posted this week about FB and the OW - did you discuss this stuff with him? Does his W know that he talks about his M?

Yes and I don't understand the rest. You're mistaken. I haven't posted anything on SI in a while.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Talking to your mum and sister about your relationship is totally appropriate. Talking to another man, who also is dealing with infidelity and the vulnerability this creates, is playing with fire.

He just lit the match first. And instead of throwing cold water on it, you threw petrol. Up it goes.

Sounds like you want to figure this out. Which is great.

Did you keep the texts?


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

As with every WS situation, you wouldn't have crossed the line if you didn't want to. Responding with anything less than rejection or horror to his advance is proof positive of this.
He is not a friend of your marriage, as regret laden as his words may be now. You both were getting more out of the attention you gave each other than the supposed marital support you were offering.

You are asking for advice. We are all saying the same thing. Come clean to your BH and OM's newly minted BW. Go NC. Anything less implies that you want special rules or allowances. Right and wrong doesn't work like that.

It's your friend or your marriage. Your choice.


^^^^^^THIS

And yes, how did you meet him?


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Lieshurt: I can't see where you're helping me right now. I feel like you're trying to "catch" me in something and I have no idea what that something would be.

I havne't asked anyone to prove that I wanted to sext him or that I made the choice to do so. I did it, I'm here for help, it's pretty obvious that I chose and wanted to do it or I would have reacted the way WE ALL know I should have. The point is I didn't. And I would like some help in figuring out why as opposed to a lot of suggestions telling me what I should have done.

I want to fix myself. I'm going to do it whether I'm attacked or helped along.

ETA: Met him online.

[This message edited by Phoenix519 at 4:32 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Your A sounds kinda like my 2nd affair.

Met a fella when I was 16. Was friends with him before I even remotely had romantic feelings for my husband. After marriage, I kept up this "friendship". This guy knew everything about me. And my marriage.

I had no business telling him anything about my relationship with QS.

Over time, things got inappropriate and the sexual innuendo flew. Sure we didn''''t "technically" PA. But the intent was there. That was enough.

Crap the daily texts and emails were enough. It was an A.

How did you meet this BH?

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 4:32 PM, September 26th, 2013 (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6157 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
kickboxer
Member
Member # 39858
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

I'm new here and a BS.

It sounds like a LTEA as far as my definition of such goes.

If my husband were having regular communication with another woman, divulging intimate details of our life, marriage, family...regardles of what the intentions were when the interactions started...I'd feel very betrayed :(

My husband's EA involved less communication for a shorter period of time than what you're describing here...and it's the primary reason I found SI.

It sounds like it's time to prepare for another DD -- and, if you want your marriage to survive, permanent NC is the only way to go.


BW - 42 (Me)
WH - 39 (2 ONS, 6m EA)
Married 13 years, 3 children
DD: 7/13/13
Status: Rugsweeping, I guess.

Posts: 248 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere Out There
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

JRAZZ:
You both were getting more out of the attention you gave each other than the supposed marital support you were offering.

Please elaborate on this. My husband and his AP stroked one another's ego's and sided with one another against me. She caused havoc in my life. He was a complete asshole and came home mad and angry every single night. He was checked out of our marriage, etc. With the help and encouragement I found in this friendship I have been able to overcome some obstacles with my husband because he's given me a male's point of view. No, I didn't only speak with the OM about these things, something would come up and I would talk to my husband and it wouldn't go well. I'd ask the OM and he's say, actually ...and give me another perspective and then I would tell my husband what had transpired.

I wasn't seeking attention from the OM, nor did I need my ego stroked. Still don't.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

EA isn't always about spouting I love you, its about getting something from that person emotionally that you should be getting from your husband or from yourself. This was building up long before the couple days of sexting, you don't just randomly start flirting or sexting with a platonic friend if something wasn't already there or being built.

Also no minimizing which you already did by calling it the shortest non PA ever. Even if you don't like the term EA call it what it is: cheating. Once you fully acknowledge that your have made a huge step in the right direction. Why haven't you told your husband yet? Being a BS you know how this feels, why would you keep it from him?

NC should not be for a little while to cool off. You cheated with this man, NC is permanent, there is no undoing what the two of you have done.

Time to do some digging, why was this okay for you to do, why did you allow this to become a viable option, what changes do you have to make, why is it okay to not immediately tell your husband? You need to answer these and more.

ETA: started this post when only had 2 responses but kept stopping for work so I apologize if there are any repeating pieces of advice in there.

[This message edited by Unagie at 4:53 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2700 | Registered: Oct 2012
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

In my book, if you have been getting emotional support from a person who is not your husband, it is an emotional affair. Particularly if this person "helped" you with any marital issues, whatsoever.

The fact that the sexting appears to have just "happened", unless you were under mind control by aliens, is evidence of the fact that this has been brewing/building for a while. I gently suggest you have not been, and are still not, honest with yourself.

Kudos to you for nipping it in the bud somewhat quickly though, so the damage will be minimized.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. If you want a healthy marriage you need to NC and tell your husband, pronto. And for extra security, tell his wife.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 5:22 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1879 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

P.S. The only person I email daily is my husband -- not my dad, my sister or my best friend. Big, red flag.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1879 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

My head is a jumbled mess so things that would normally make sense to me and be obvious right now. I'm trying though. I'm here and I'm trying.

Unagie: Thank you.

EA isn't always about spouting I love you, its about getting something from that person emotionally that you should be getting from your husband or from yourself.

^^ This helps. This I get. Looking back I can see how I got and gave emotional support, not based upon love or ego, but because I wanted to help someone and have help in return. And yes, this has gone on for a long time. If I understand correctly, it doesn't matter if it's condoned or known by my husband though.

Also no minimizing which you already did by calling it the shortest non PA ever.
I didn't lie about the sexting. It literally lasted three days. I stated it that way not to minimize the effect. I am well aware of the effect it has had on me, the OM and everyone else involved. That's why it went no further. It was wrong, wrong wrong.

Time to do some digging, why was this okay for you to do, why did you allow this to become a viable option, what changes do you have to make, why is it okay to not immediately tell your husband? You need to answer these and more.

I've been on the roller coaster like every other BS here on SI. My FWH and I haven't totally regained our sex life even though we have been in R for four years or more. I've never been unfaithful in any relationship and stupidly thought I could handle a friendship with someone of the opposite sex.

ETA: Aubrie, thank you for your example. That also helps me to see similarity in our situation.

[This message edited by Phoenix519 at 5:27 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

(Gently) Phoenix, I think if you take a second look at Not Just Friends, you are going to have some "ah ha" moments. Please have courage, and you have support here.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1879 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

The fact that the sexting appears to have just "happened", unless you were under mind control by aliens, is evidence of the fact that this has been brewing/building for a while. I gently suggest you have not been, and are still not, honest with yourself.

@bionicgal: To clarify what I meant by "just happened". I meant it wasn't' planned or even a thought even five minutes before. I completely understand that "something" was brewing and likely thta was me feeling neglected in my marriage. But as I've learned here on SI, that's just an excuse. I mean, I've been neglected in my marriage for six solid years so...why now? If I was looking for an EA or sexting partner, why wouldn't I have done this after D-day?

Why now?


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

If I understand correctly, it doesn't matter if it's condoned or known by my husband though.
My husband knew about AP2. I told him every time we talked/emailed. Didn't change the fact I was leaping over my marital boundaries by telling AP all the crap that went on in my life. And he turned a listening ear "as a friend". Right.

I agree with the others to read the Not Just Friends book again.

Good luck.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6157 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

I agree and will dig out my copy of the book and start there.

Since my last post, I've spent my time making the decision to go NC with the OM. The steps I've taken so far is to un-friend on Facebook and to delete his contact info and email from my phone, etc.

I haven't told my husband because I guess I've been in shock about all this. I had to make the decision today to put down my BFF of 13 years, my dog and best bud and that coupled with the aftermath of this epic assholish decision has left me in slow motion. My husband hasn't been home in the evenings to sit him down and have a discussion and he isn't home tonight.

Does anyone have any suggestions how to go about this? He TT me for a year and a half and I only got info/confirmation via discovery that I could shove in his face so he couldn't deny. During that time he told me that if it were him in my shoes he wouldn't want to know. Maybe that's another reason why I've hesitated.

Just rambling at this point..

[This message edited by Phoenix519 at 6:24 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Lieshurt: I can't see where you're helping me right now. I feel like you're trying to "catch" me in something and I have no idea what that something would be.

I asked pertinent questions which get to the heart of what you were and are thinking. Nobody can help you if you aren't willing to provide information and details. For example, we already knew you met your OM online. We were wanting specifics. Chat room, facebook, on this site perhaps? You glossed over that instead of being honest when asked.

Does anyone have any suggestions how to go about this?

Be honest, don't delete anything, give him total transparency and don't blameshift to start with.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13722 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Phoenix, we are missing the forest for the trees here. I'm not telling you what you could have done differently. I'm telling you what you did with eyes and a heart other than yours. Do you want advice or do we really need to drown in semantics until someone accidentally misinterprets what is happening here and validates you hanging onto OM.


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 17021 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

As lieshurt said total transparency from day one. Write it down if you have to, make sure you have everything you can remember in front of you. Make a preemptive timeline so he has all the dates. NC needs to be complete with a letter, email, text to OM stating to never contact you again. Change your number if necessary and block him on FB. I would also like to know where you met him, not for curiosity but to enable us to help you explore that area of it better. Good that you're rereading "Not Just Friends" I hope you gain some more insight from it. I understand your confused and that your actions made you feel horrible but we throw a lot of 2x4's on the wayward side and pull no punches because we need to work so hard to fix the brokenness. Giving someone a pass isn't going to help them. If something makes you angry, explore it, dig into that, it effects you for a reason. Please keep posting and also join us down in madhatter's thread, this is going to get rough.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2700 | Registered: Oct 2012
ak23123
New Member
Member # 40692
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

This is a definition my BS gave me last night of an EA:

Emotional cheating is about forming meaningful attachments with people other than your partner in ways that prevent your partner from having that deep emotional intimacy with you.

Which made me realize that what I thought was a friendship really was an EA.


WS (me) - 32
BS - 37
18 month old baby

Posts: 13 | Registered: Sep 2013
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Jrazz. Not sure what you took from my last post that would indicate I'm seeking validation to hang onto the OM, that I don't want advice or that I haven't done an about face and am following the advice given to me here. But I'm not going to surrender to the notion that I was bashing my husband day in and day out and playing the victim and seeking out someone to inflate my poor, frail and damaged ego. That just wasn't he case.

Yes, I'm coming to see where I made myself emotionally vulnerable to this other person by sharing details of my FWH's affair and our reconciliation process. I have never once doubted that what I did Friday-Monday was the wrong thing to do or have I tried to justify it. With each response I'm learning and contemplating and growing.

It's been two days, I'm not where you are in the process.

ETA- To fix typos.

[This message edited by Phoenix519 at 7:45 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
NoGoodUsername
Member
Member # 40181
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Phoenix,
I ask this in kindness, sharing a hard learned lesson.

If you were hearing someone else tell your story, how would you feel about it? What do you think the right thing to do would be?


Me: WH
Her: BW
Dday 7/11/13
"May you be protected from hearts that are not humble, tongues that are not wise and eyes that have forgotten how to cry."

Posts: 236 | Registered: Aug 2013
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Not to pile on, but there doesn't necessarily need to be bashing of the spouse in an EA. I never bashed my XBH and yet my A was about as A as it gets.

Good for you for deciding to go NC with the OM. Good choice.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2098 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Thanks heartbroken.

I'm acknowledging what I did was cheat on my husband. I'm agreeing and implementing no contact. I am learning and accepting that I had an emotional A as well. All of this combined could destroy my marriage. I plan to talk to my husband about it.

Beyond that I'm pretty effin discouraged to be perfectly honest.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Discouraged about what, Phoenix?


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25008 | Registered: Aug 2011
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Phoenix,

Welcome to the wayward side, I am sure you never pictured yourself over here. I am also sure you never thought you would do this to your H, your M, let alone yourself. This will take time to come to grips with, a couple of days is nothing. Take your time, but I would encourage talking to your BH. You have our support here, and you will do some amazing work here if you stick around. I can also see you down in madhatter.
Welcome, TG


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4754 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, September 27th (Friday)

Phoenix,
Speaking to you as a WW, I would ask you to look into how it got into sexting so abruptly after years of being plutonic? Do you recall any build-up? Do you recall any excitement and anticipation in receiving or sending messages?

Do you remember experiencing something fun or memorable and wanting to share it with him straight away, or looking forward to telling him the story?

Did you catch yourself thinking about what he may be doing etc?

Answer these questions to yourself honestly as it may help you understand what was going on. Maybe all these things were quite obvious but an excellent compartmentaliser or justifier is able to push these things down and say well there's no sexual things going on or we haven't said anything inappropriate to each other so it's all good.

I bet you there were moments where you both felt something for the other person, just probably never at the same time. 2 and half years is a long time. It was inevitable that something was going to happen at some point when you share life happenings with that person on a daily consistent basis..


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
SurprisinglyOkay
Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, September 27th (Friday)

Trying's questions are great!

Here's one from me. You are on SI, and have been for some time.

WHY did you reach out to a man in the first place?

There are 40,000 ish people on here on SI, a lot of which are women. Why a man?

I don't know where you met this OM, but there are so many fabulous strong women here to build relationships with.


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1130 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, September 27th (Friday)

I agree that your questions are great trying.

Do you recall any build-up? Do you recall any excitement and anticipation in receiving or sending messages?

If I understand the question correctly I think you're referring to the excitement and anticipation like what I felt when my husband and I began talking/dating. Over the 2 1/2 years, no.

Do you remember experiencing something fun or memorable and wanting to share it with him straight away, or looking forward to telling him the story?

Yes.

Did you catch yourself thinking about what he may be doing etc?

Once the relationship became inappropriate on Friday though, yes. My mind went from zero to sixty immediately. In talking with the OM about it, we both were able to see similarities with what what we were doing and what our spouses had done and we both agreed that it was horribly wrong and could not continue. For me, I think that if it would have continued I would have started to develop strong feelings for this person, and neither of us wanted that.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, September 27th (Friday)

Broevil

here are 40,000 ish people on here on SI, a lot of which are women. Why a man?

I didn't see gender, I saw someone who was reeling and hurting just like I had and who needed help and was asking for help. He asked for some insight from someone that had been trough what he was going through.

When I discovered my FWH affair, it was the single most devastating experience in my life. I had grown up with a m manipulative and abusive mother, had moved more times than I can count when I was a child through my teen years, and I have been married previously to an extremely cruel verbally abusive alcoholic. My husband brought a love into my life like I had never known and adored me. The first year after d-day I lost so much weight I could wear my daughters clothes and she was 12 at the time. I couldn't sleep, I began to have massive panic attacks and I had a "functioning" nervous breakdown. I suffered from PTSD as well. Through all of that I held onto my marriage and my husband fought for me.

As I said I had never been unfaithful before and I was convinced that "I was not like them".

Even though in this situation I didn't "choose" a man, it would be honest to say that I don't have a single close relationship with a woman, and never have. I just can't relate at all to women.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, September 27th (Friday)

I just can't relate at all to women.
Why is that?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6157 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, September 27th (Friday)

IDK Aubrie. I've asked myself that questions hundreds of times during my life and it's an answer I long to discover. When I was a kid, all the girls I knew were playing with barbie dolls and I was outside playing football with the boys and riding the trails and shooting stuff with my bb gun. When I got to high school I tried harder, went out for the cheerleading squad and made it and was miserable. So instead of doing that again the following year, I bought myself a 68 camaro and my BF and I spent time fixing it up and going to the beach. Even now, I work with a lot of women and I feel very uncomfortable and out of place because I don't have any common interests with them outside of parenting.

Maybe it's just my personality type or maybe it's because of the terrible relationship I had with my mother growing up.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, September 27th (Friday)

You wonder why you did what you did.


Itold my husband.. You're an idiot. If you were a smart man you would realize that the depth and severity of my suffering as a CLEAR indication for the love and devotion I feel for you. If I didn't care I would be over it and done with you by now. But I'm here, facing every day knowing seeing you is a reminder of the deliberate choice you made to hurt me. It's not just about you, I took vows and we became one. You did this to US, and until I'm healed you're not healed.

From an old post of yours and nope.. The depth and severity of your suffering is about you. That's why I post and piss people off rather frequently. I wish some would get this.

Why do you think infidelity is treated like such a stand alone? Yes it is a horrific betrayal. So is gambling, alcoholism, DV, emotionally abandoning someone, lying, trashing your spouse, spending money you don't have and hiding it.

But, when you introduce another person, the wheels come off. Why is that? One of the main reason is it hits so many buttons and triggers that fucking awful chemical spa of rejection. That's all about you. Pain is very narcissistic. A drive to feel better that is pretty relentless.

This is why I hate labels for people. Think you're the only BS that's utilizing wayward thought processess? Not even close.

I get along better with men too, but only on the surface. My deep friends are female. The reason? The level of intimacy I share with them. Opening yourself up to that level is a very special thing. Only a very few are admitted and only one spot for a male, with me. My SO or husband.

I too had a terrible relationship with my mother. Don't think that's the reason, though. I'm actually pretty introverted and direct IRL. If a friend asks me if her ass looks fat in her jeans my response would be, "well, they aren't the best camouflage for said ass. Let's find a different style". That's not a bonding moment except with a few others that are same way. There aren't many. Male or female.

So, don't get hyphy with the label and run from hard looks because of the "but I can't be like THEM". Let's start where you felt reaching out daily to "chat" with a male not your husband seemed like a good idea. I believe you said, "we were both hurting"...and how do you handle pain?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, September 27th (Friday)

Maybe it's just my personality type or maybe it's because of the terrible relationship I had with my mother growing up.
And maybe it's both.

I urge you to dig into this when you're ready.

I so remember having this conversation a long time ago here. I have a "thing" about women too. Or had. Couple people here proved me wrong on my theory.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6157 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, September 27th (Friday)

It's hard for me as well to be comfortably social with other females. I'm very "girly" but it's hard for me to open up and be myself around women. I have always felt more comfortable around men in that sense.

In my case, though, that comfortability and familiarity around men as opposed to women, coupled with my personally weak boundaries, allowed me to put myself in situations that were inappropriate long before I ever committed adultery.

I was naïve in my younger years, not realizing that it's very difficult (if not impossible) for a man and a woman to be emotionally close without one of the two wanting more. After I became wise to that fact, I still chose to disregard it and purposefully used it to my advantage to procure validation and ego-strokes that I had not learned to provide within myself.

Not saying all of that ^ applies to you, but it sounds like you learned the hard way about the slippery slope that occurs when men and women get too close.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2098 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, September 27th (Friday)

I still chose to disregard it and purposefully used it to my advantage to procure validation and ego-strokes that I had not learned to provide within myself.

True. I also think affairs have become a bit cartoonish. Broken people. Looking for ego boosts.

I honestly don't think many people know how to have relationships. The Internet, FB, twitter, online groups. It's so easy to reach out and touch someone. "You"have an interest, hobby, disease, trauma and there's online support groups, fellow hobby sharers, old HS or college people, whatever. That one commonality starts to have far more meaning and an artificial intimacy becomes real because you put effort and time into it. It's like a huge welcome mat we roll out to masses. Y'all come.

Spouses become, or are even further isolated and confined to roles. Handyman, maid, babysitter, chauffeur, parent. Communication becomes news bulletins. Pick up daughter from soccer. Fridge is broken. Car pings. New "friend" becomes where the relationship building energy goes. No need for that work on the current spouse. They're there, after all. Not going anywhere.

Then it's so easy to see every flaw, fault, trait you aren't crazy about in a negative light. That love haze is now soooooo last season.

Relationships take work, time, energy. People don't have unlimited resources of any of those. So put them where they belong. Foster what you have. You won't find time for much else.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, September 27th (Friday)

t/j
That's why I post and piss people off rather frequently.
and I love it.

ok, end t/j


FWW - 41
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5846 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, September 27th (Friday)

t/j
uncertainone - are you a writer by trade? Your posts are always so well articulated. Some people here blow me away with their insights.

I am so grateful, because there is no forum to deal with these things in the real world for me, except with my H and in therapy. (And one friend who is sympathetic and supportive, but has no clue what it is like from the inside.) So, thanks for being here and sharing your wisdom.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1879 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, September 27th (Friday)

Uncertainone

I had a few "aha" moments reading your post. I have no idea how to even go about opening myself up to a female. Like you, I'm direct, introverted and the joke with the 8 other women I work with is that "I'm often in a zone". Tuned out to what's going on around me. I don't like idle chitter chatter about what I perceive to be superficial topics. I have to keep my mind occupied almost constantly and I do that by listening to audio books, music, etc while I work. When the conversation turns to me, I typically find that my point of view is vastly different from everyone else's and that telling them about the bitchin 57 corvette stingray convertible I saw on the way to work, or about the interesting book I just finished about the Dead Sea Scrolls is NOT a great conversation starter, especially when they just discussed the great sale they shopped at Vera Bradley. I'm not saying I'm better than any of them, they're wonderful people but I just fail at relating to them. Additionally, I don't talk about emotions or my personal life, EVER with people I know IRL.

I agree with you that pain is very narcissistic. I can't tell you how I deal with it really. I talk to my husband but that only goes so far. He's a man of few words and not a great conversationalist, but he's working on that. I suppose I stuff it and numb myself up and then move on to the next thing that needs to be done for my family, work or the next thing to be learned. I barely skipped a beat when my mother died on Christmas Day two years ago. I felt guilty and still do for feeling relief that I wouldn't be met each day with her demands I could never live up to, her hatred I could never pacify and her manipulation that I never understood.

Heartbroken: A lot of what you said does apply to me. Is it crazy to say that on some level I resented my loyalty and boundaries to some degree after D-day?

I guess maybe I thought that in by helping someone else, I could learn something from their struggle that might help me with mine.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, September 27th (Friday)

Perhaps you dove into this relationship because you felt he could help you understand a mans point of view and you could offer him a woman's point of view (although you were both betrayed so you couldn't really help each other understand ww behavior). You also had to enjoy the attention he gave you on a daily basis, even if it seemed innocent at the time. You knew that he would be there for you. This emotional attachment for a couple of years easily lead to your 3 days of indiscretion.

I am glad that you realize you have to go NC. Have you already sent the OM the letter? Are you going to tell his W? For some reason I think you will rationalize not telling the OBS because you feel it would be a betrayal to him... (hope I am wrong)

I do commend you for being here Phoenix519


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 433 | Registered: Dec 2012
Dance4Me
Member
Member # 26284
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, September 27th (Friday)

Wow - Pheonix - we joined the same month and I remember you posting your 3.5 year update on here. I even responded to you because what you wrote resonated with me so much.

You even, later on in that same post, mention the man (two actually) that you now are discussing in this very topic. I'm not sure if you remember that -

One last thing..I have two of the most amazing friends who I love with all of my heart that I met here on SI. Both were betrayed. One's marriage didn't work out and he remarried two weekends ago and is very happy and is thriving. The other chose to stay and is doing much better also. I talk to them every single day and they've been my lifeline many times. We will be lifelong friends. Having someone like that when you go through this will help and make you realize you're not alone
.

Sometimes when we are living our lives , especially after dealing with the aftermath of such a traumatizing event such as infidelity, we do whatever it takes to make ourselves feel better despite the fact we know subconsciously it may be wrong. I think deep deep down, you did enjoy the attention and validation that these friendships brought - and who knows how far along in your healing you may be at now if these friendships never occured. I have gained two amazing female friendships on here - they are truly my sista-friends and I don't think I would have made it with my FWH without them - in fact, I know I wouldn't have!! Unfortunatley for you, befriending a male confidant, wasn't the smartest move you have made in your healing....look where you are today??

Personally, I find you very brave for stepping up as a FBS and owning your own WS shit on SI - a place where you have helped others based on your positive 3.5 year update. Being a member as long as I have, you know deep down what you have to do - disclose, remorse, transparency etc. And you know, this won't be easy - but you have all the tools from your own BS experience and "SI enlightened wisdom" to do the right thing.

Lastly, as a member who is facing her own 4 year anti-versary next week, my heart as been hurting lately too. I am one that says I will "never say never" about anything in my life. I could have easily been you given the same circumstances - so please know I don't judge you. I am proud of you for posting here in wayward, and for getting some sound advice and 2X4's through others that have been there already.




On Dday -BS-me 41 FWS-him 42
Married 19 years 3 kids (16,13,9)
D-Day 10/2/09- TT til Feb. 2010

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken.” -CS Lewis


Posts: 1040 | Registered: Nov 2009
BrokenRoad
Member
Member # 15334
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, September 27th (Friday)

I agree, NC has to be permanent. There is no "for a while". It just gives you license to do it again later on.

Try to focus on what led you here with this guy and how you can fix yourself, rather than how long the friendship went on and how beneficial it was.

And you MUST tell your spouse.


{Him}FBH - 43 (WifeHad5)
{Me} FWW - 43
2 kids 7 & 12
Reconciled :)
Beauty and folly are old companions.--Benjamin Franklin

Posts: 10648 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Midwest
Lucky2HaveMe
Member
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, September 28th (Saturday)

I think there is a lot of danger when BS's of the opposite sex connect over infidelity. I think emotional connections can be very strong under those circumstances.

I agree with the others, you need to tell your H and you need to go NC with the OM (both of them). It will be difficult if they are both members here, but you can *forget* them so they're posts are blocked out of your viewing. Seeing those blocked out posts will remind you of the slippery slope and the reason you need to stay away.

Kudos to you for realizing your actions are wrong on so many levels. Now use the wisdom you have gleaned from these forums for the last few years and take an authentic path through your life.


Indian wisdom says our lives are rivers. We are born somewhere small and quiet and we move toward a place we cannot see, but only imagine. From Tending Roses

Posts: 6250 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
Topic Posts: 63