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User Topic: stealth mode
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

I am currently in stealth mode - trying to get proof that my WW has lost her way. I strongly believe my wife has been involved in an PA (for maybe 3-5 years) with someone at her office (specifically the OM has his office directly next to my WW's office). I strongly believe this guy is the one who gave her (and me later on) pubic crabs.

My suspicion arouse several years ago, but I think I must of been in denial (because I let it go and got caught up in my work and very busy family life - 3 young kids).

Long story short - I became very suspicious this past August (when I showed up at her work unannouced) and when I saw the OM for the first time.

As I started to put things together (all the changes in her behavior, change in sexual habits, secretiveness of her cell phone, changes in her behavior/mood, going to the gym all the time, getting breast implants when she knows that I do not care for them), I think my DD was August 29, 2013.

Can you have a DD even if you have no solid concrete proof? When I confronted her about my suspicions, her response was highly defensive (she accused my of cheating and getting crabs from cheating).

Well, since then I have been in stealth mode. I have caught her lies and realize how adept and effortless it is for her to concoct the lies.

The problem is catching them in the act. My wife is on a tight schedule and does not have the ability to get away for long periods of time. She just has too many responsibilities with her job and the 3 kids. I pretty much know where she is all the time.

I'm fairly certain that she and OM are screwing during the lunch hour (in his office - which is directly next to her office). That is the only time she chas available. The problem is catching them in the act. Too difficult without causing her to become suspicious. The physical set up of their offices makes it very difficult for surveillence without making her and him suspicious.

Anways, I have gotten tested for STD's and am searchiing for a family attorney.

I am strongly considering divorce (regardless if I have concrete proof or not). I plan on having divorce papers files and confronting her soon.

I know she will deny everything (proof or no proof). Since the PI surveillence is fairly expensive, would you consider confronting the WW without concrete rock solid proof?

I am not interested in punishing her for her affair. I just want to protect my kids and my family.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

I am sending you a pm


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3185 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

(((deeplysaddened)))

I am so sorry you find yourself here with all of us.
This site has been a lifesaver for me----I have learned so much from the wise people here, & also gotten so much comfort when I have been in severe pain.

would you consider confronting the WW without concrete rock solid proof?

My WH also had an A with a coworker---they sat next to each other all day at work.

It was only a few days from the time my gut started to get suspicious until I checked his cell phone call log & saw the hundreds of calls/texts back & forth between them for the past few months, & I confronted WH a couple of hours later.
My feeling was ---let me throw a monkeywrench into the works before they get any more involved than they already are.

I had already gone to a payphone & called the number, & got OW's VM recording, so I knew her first name.
I simply said to WH, "Who is OW, & why are there 30 calls/texts back & forth between you per day for the last few months?
WH immediately admitted that he had slept with her.


In your case, it has been going on for much longer, & your WW seems deep in the fog. I am assuming that you have already checked her phone records----you may learn something from them. I don't know what type of phone your WW has, but
there are certain phone apps which also act as recording devices---check Brickhouse security---they cost a few hundred dollars, but that is still cheaper than a PI. I did hire a PI to do a background check on OW, to see if she had a criminal history. Even if your WW & OM are meeting in his office, she probably takes her phone with her.

I know how difficult this is, but it is often said on here that you have to be willing to end the marriage if there is any chance of saving it. Sending you strength.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 10:46 AM, September 29th (Sunday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

I really don't think your wife would have anything, especially sexual, to do with a guy who gave her crabs. Would you?

Also sex in an office at work? Very unlikely considering what would happen if they were caught. Affairs at work are virtually always known to other members of staff; I can speak from personal experience having worked in a n office for a number of years. You just can't hide the looks, glances, intimate touches etc.

You don't have any proof and confronting her would be pointless; she would just endlessly deny. Filing for divorce may not have such an attractive outcome when you consider alimony and child support payments for 3 kids.

As for surveillance all I think of is planting a microphone or VAR, but I would leave that to a PI who has a better idea of whats legal or not.


Posts: 1693 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
headdesk
Member
Member # 40787
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

I think that the fact she turned it around and threw it in your face that you must be the cheater (because of lice/'crabs') is highly indicative of something. Why else would she toss that in your face. My WH was the one for years that accused me of cheating when I would dream of it. They're often just mirroring their own not so great stuff in you. If they are lying, you're the liar - etc. Good luck and sorry that you're going through this. :(


Me: 39
WH: 42
DDay:Sep 19 2013 (only TT of EA)
Oct 4th 2013 revealed PA through snooping.
Marred 16 years, together for 20. Looking to R at this time. We have awesome kids (12/14).

Posts: 273 | Registered: Sep 2013
tooanalytical
Member
Member # 22306
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

I am trying to understand OK Nows comments:
I really don't think your wife would have anything, especially sexual, to do with a guy who gave her crabs. Would you?

Are you suggesting that his WW was having an affair with two OM and it was the other OM that gave her crabs? Not the noble OM who she chose to stay with?

Also sex in an office at work? Very unlikely considering what would happen if they were caught. Affairs at work are virtually always known to other members of staff;

You say it is very unlikely they would cheat because of the consequences but then go on to say from personal experience people do it anyway and you have even witnessed it yourself. In my opinion a WS doesn't think of the consequences until it is too late.

As for surveillance all I think of is planting a microphone or VAR, but I would leave that to a PI who has a better idea of whats legal or not.

mchercheur mentioned brickhouse security and I agree. I purchased a GPS tracking device that I left in my FWW car(not real time tracking) that I could download later and see where she was and for how long on google earth. Voice activated recorders can record conversations in the car. Key logging software can be installed on her laptop if it owned by both of you. It will send you a record of every chat, text, email and keystroke she makes every hour.

You can gather quite a bit of info quickly and without the expense of a PI in my opinion.

[This message edited by tooanalytical at 4:56 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]


Me BH 44
FWW 44
Married 21 years
D-Day Apr 29, 2008
Children: 19,17,14
EA/PA - 1 year
Status: R

Posts: 279 | Registered: Jan 2009
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

I strongly believe my wife has been involved in an PA (for maybe 3-5 years) with someone at her office (specifically the OM has his office directly next to my WW's office). I strongly believe this guy is the one who gave her (and me later on) pubic crabs.

As far as I can see there is only one OM; the one who supposedly gave her crabs and whose office is next to hers.

If any guy I was sexually involved with gave me crabs I would end the affair immediately [where had this guy been !?] . Just for good measure I would move to another office - who knows how mobile crabs are. Revolting in the extreme.


Posts: 1693 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Just for good measure I would move to another office - who knows how mobile crabs are. Revolting in the extreme.

OK now, you just made me laugh for the first time in awhile. An image came to my mind of an army of crab lice swarming under doorways in my direction.
Seriously tho, our WSs ( those who have been in PAs) have been as intimate as one can be with their APs, in most cases without using condoms ( which don't 100% protect against contact with an STD anyway, but are better than not using one) & also don't bother to even ask the AP if they have anything.
One question I asked WH was: did you ask OW if she has any STDs? Of course not, why would he think to do that?
OW had spread her legs for quite a few men at the office.
So now if I sleep with him, I am exposing myself to anything any of them had.

Back to deeplysaddened's situation: apparently his WW did contract crab lice from OM, but still continued on with him---guess it didn't bother her & she didn't care about passing them on to deeplysaddened
. Thank God it wasn't something incurable.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, September 30th (Monday)

OK now

My WW has a thing for Latin men. I won't go into the details, but I know what she is into (and aparrently it ain't me).

As for sex at the office, I would generally agree with your observations. But, her office has only one employee (a secretary who sits at the front desk). The door to the office has no window. So when my WW leaves her office (to slink into the OM office for a quickie) almost no one can see (except for the ceiling mounted surveillence cameras). I would love to get access to those video footage. But, my PI tells me that there is no way in hell the owners of the building will share that information.

His office is not really an office. It is more of an equipment room. The OM is a maintainence guy.

The offices are at the end of a short hallway - cul-de-sac that is hidden from view of the main hallway.

This is why it is very difficult for my private investigators to catch her in the act of leaving her office and going into his equipment room. Standing outside the 2 doors would be a giveaway.

I am more than willing to go the divorce route. If there were no kids involved, I wouldn't be on this forum. I would be at the lawyers office filing for divorce like yesterday. But, for the sake of my kids, I will confront my WW and go the R route (if she is truly remorseful and willing to work hard to fix what she f'ked up). If she continues to deny and is not willing to do the no contact, change offices, she will then receive the divorce papers. That may wake her up (or not).

Alimony is not really an issue. She may be the one who may actually pays alimony. I do not know the laws, but I was the one who financed her fledgling business (that has now become successful).


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
HereWeGo62
Member
Member # 34766
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, September 30th (Monday)

deeplysaddened,

Sorry you are here,there are many people here that have lived this nightmare and are more than willing to try and help.

I am more than willing to go the divorce route. If there were no kids involved, I wouldn't be on this forum. I would be at the lawyers office filing for divorce like yesterday.

Whatever you finally decide to do you should strongly consider consulting a lawyer. The L can give you an idea of what your rights are in case things go south.

Even though it is hard I think you should stay in the stealth mode, it does not sound like your W is going to come clean with anything and truthfulness is not one of her strongpoints. The question will be "what are you going to do if you can't prove an A?" Your gut is telling you what's going on, this sixth sense is not usually wrong.

Stay strong, your kids are going to need you. Keep posting as long as you need to.


If there is reincarnation I hope OM comes back as a low water flush truck stop toilet!

Posts: 306 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Tx
betrayedme2
Member
Member # 40639
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, September 30th (Monday)

You mentioned she's protective of her cell phone. #1 thing in my book to raise the hairs on the back of your neck. When I demanded to see my wife's iphone, she freaked!! If there's nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a big deal. Then if there's really nothing there, it's an opening and opportunity to talk things out. But, if they "freak", you KNOW there is something to your suspicions. Good luck and best wishes!!!


dday: 1/19/13
ME: mid 40's
WW: low 40'3
2 daughters, 17, 21
Reconciling

Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Unless your W is a confirmed sociopath its usually fairly easy to catch a cheater when you know where to look. It seems your doing everything you can to confirm your suspicions. Yet your efforts have not yielded any concrete proof of an A. Yours is a strange case indeed. The red flags are waving all over the place. And I'm of the belief whens there's smoke there's fire. But, and this is a big but. Perhaps you may need to accept the fact that you wont catch her in the proverbial act. I'm a bit concerned that your obsessing over the hunt. If your not happy over the condition of your M maybe you should just ask for a D. Sometimes you don't need solid evidence of an A to know the M is dead. KWIM ?


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5568 | Registered: Nov 2007
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, September 30th (Monday)

I agree this is a very unusual case. Your wife has Brazilian wax jobs, boob implants and goes to the gym to keep her figure AND she gives you a lousy sex life. Then who is she making all this effort for? Particularly the painful Brazilian wax torture.

Since its not for you, its highly likely she has a lover and she laughing at your doomed attempts to prove this.
Unless you can gain access to the building where your wife works and plant a remote microphone in OM's 'office' [maybe wife's office too], its hard to find out if sex is actually taking place. I can't think of any other way.

You could reason they you have enough circumstantial evidence to serve her with divorce papers, [she will never confess so don't bother trying to reason with her], then if she really doesn't want the divorce, demand, as a condition of withdrawing the petition, that she quits her job. Getting her to leave her job may be the only way of ending this affair because of the peculiar nature of her suspected adultery.

Meeting with a counsellor will not work since she has no intention of telling the truth. She will make you out to be a sick paranoid and humiliate you in front of the MC.

File and make sure she doesn't suspect that you are bargaining to keep the marriage. Tell her its all over and you want out, then see if she is prepared to fight to keep the family intact.


Posts: 1693 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, September 30th (Monday)

deeplysaddened,
Not to be harsh but why do you need more concrete proof. Unless you had an A, which is apparent that you haven''t, then what more proof do you need than getting pubic crabs from your WW? Unless you want it solely for court you don''t need any more than that. She gaslighting you with the accusation that you''re the one cheating. It''s all about throwing off your suspicions. Think about it this way, if she weren''t having an A then that means you definitely cheated and passed on the crabs to her from it. How would she or any other woman react to that?

Bottom line is you know. Now is just a question of details. The question now is why do you need to know more. Do you need to confirm what you know? Why? Do you need for court? If that''s your plan then check with a lawyer.

I''ve been where you''re at. You know but you think you need something irrefutable proof. Deep down you may think if you have then the denials have to stop. If she can''t deny then she has to face what she''s done and guilt and remorse will follow. Unfortunately that may not be the case. Some WS can deny forever. Some don''t react the way their BS expects.

Focus on you. What do you need to heal? If you don''t want to consider R regardless of whether your WW is remorseful then prepare accordingly. Get into IC.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3668 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, September 30th (Monday)

I read all your posts.

There is a lot to indicate issues in the marriage.

There is also enough IMHO to justify your concerns about her fidelity.

However… I would not limit any investigation to proving that she is having an affair with this particular possible OM.

It’s one of the more common mistake people make when investigating something; trying to prove a given conclusion. Do that and you will limit your investigation. It will make you bypass evidence and wrongly see other evidence.

OK – so you claim you can’t monitor her when in the office. But I for one doubt that they will limit any affair to an office if he is the OM. It’s a relatively rare case where a woman maintains a purely sexual affair; as a rule the sex is currency for something else like validation, attraction and being made to feel special. So there will be lunches, motels, communication and interaction outside the office.
It’s an extremely rare WS that can completely hide the affair. Look and you will find. Affair partners communicate. They arrange the next date. So look into communications. Already got hints with VAR’s and so.

Affair partners meet and they lie in order to do so. So she says she will be at A but goes to B. A simple gps or even a smartphone with a program like sports tracker can tell you where she was and what time. She goes to the gym for 3 hours? Confirm that. Confirm she leaves, arrives at the gym in as straight a path as possible and is there for more or less all the time. She says she’s going to her friends’ house?

As you know from personal experience crabs aren’t comfortable… So I understand where OK now is coming from. Crabs is something that sounds a lot more like a chance encounter with a player rather than a long-term affair. Even cheating wives don’t like being cheated on. I would seriously look into her gym-time. She wouldn’t be the first woman to find casual sex in a gym.

Look into finances. Where are withdrawals made? Spend a lot on lunch some distance from the office? (A definite red flag – if your spouse takes the trouble to drive 15 minutes at lunch to get a salad then she’s maybe meeting someone that she doesn’t want her co-workers to know of).

I’m quite certain that if you look you will find.

Only remember this: After a reasonable time – if you don’t find anything… then MAYBE it’s because there isn’t anything going on.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Sep 2005
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, September 30th (Monday)

Thanks everyone for all the insightful advice.

Tomorrow I have a scheduled 3 hour meeting with a top family law attorney (expensive but hopefully worht it). I will ask all the questions I need to prep myself for the ordeal ahead.

Actually, probably the most important question would relate to the concrete evidence. Is it needed legally?

I guess for me I just want to know the truth. I can see my WW denying everything and accusing me of being paranoid, neurotic, and obsessed. My goal is not to punish her or take away the kids from her. My kids do need her and she is a good mother (except for the A).

Actually, even if I have concrete proof, I do not want this info to be known to people we know. It's just too embarrassing for our family. I would hate for my kids to find out their mom ( a well respected professional) screws the custodian in her office building, gets crabs, gives it to her husband, and she still continues to see the OM).

I think what will happen is this: I do not get the proof I am looking for. She denies everything. I serve her the divorce papers and we get divorced. Somehow I doubt she will wake up from the fog. I need to move on. I have so much to offer to a truly loving spouse.

If she does wake up and is truly remorseful and willing to do absolutely everything to fix the mess, I will give her the chance.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, September 30th (Monday)

deeplysaddened
Even if she is not actually in an A right now, which I doubt because I think she is)
she is certainly NOT in your marriage right now.
She is behaving in a very uncaring, unkind, selfish way to you.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 12:18 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Bigger

Thanks for your insight.

Actually, my PI thinks the OM is a player. The investigator thinks this OM may also be banging another female employee. Just today, I saw her car parked next to his. They've been seen in work out clothes after work. He's been seen coming out of the building to walk her in.

My PI have watched the OM putting on aftershave in his car. Slicking back his hair. You know - all that male primping crap. Actually, I find him kind of slimy. I think he definitely is a player.

As for my WW - her schedule is tight. And it is easy for me to account for her time. I check her schedule daily and often check her GPS location. Our 3 kids afterschool events require her to be on a tight schedule.

As for the gym - she stays there 1.5 hours (treadmill and elliptical for 1 hour and machine weights and stretching for half a hour. GPS says she's at gym. Plus, now I am a member too.

Lunches and hotels? She's too busy in her office to get away for even a 30 minute lunch. She usually runs down to the cafeteria and brings it back up. Hotels? Can't see it happening - except on the rare occasion I have to go out of town. Weekends? Nope. The 3 kids tie up all her time.

I have several VAR and placed them in our cars. Nothing much.

Here's what is interesting. She really hates it when I accompany her to her office. She tells me that it is not professional for me to be around. Whenever we go to the office, she wants me to wait in the car or go to the cafeteria (and only come meet her at the car or exit when she calls me). I'm pretty sure she feels uncomfortable that the OM may something stupid.

My WW almost has this split personality or Dr.Jeckel Mr.Hyde thing. The woman I married is gentle kind and loving. When she is tired or if I am at the office with her, she is downright mean, condescending and uptight. In our 1st decade of marriage, I never saw this side to her. It's almost if I don't even know this person.

Also, I have noticed that if I screw up her possible plans for free time with the OM, she'll complain of being tired, having a headahce, and becomes really argumentative.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

After reading over post and hearing how hard your hurting especially you not to come but over wait in the car it's not professional... Buddy and you do not want anyone to know about her affair... Really she thinking about you at all..! Really she has no respect for you. Stop being a nice guy look where that got you. She started working out got bolt ons.... Not one bit of that was for you she's hurting you and you don't want to hurt her that's what you lost respect for you buddy. Sorry I'm being so blunt but you need to hear it and kick her ass out of the house total disrespect towards you she has become your enemy I hope you get a little mad you need to

Posts: 56 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Trojan

You are so right. My WW has no respect for me. She's a cake eater. She wants the comfort and security of a househusband and saves all her sex for that scumbag.

You are right. No more Mr. Nice guy. Look where it got me.

Also, I am starting to realize that it will be very difficult to get concrete (and not circumstantial evidence). My PI has had no luck. That's an entirely different story. But, I really want the concrete proof for leverage. Here's what I mean.

2 days ago, I had a 3 hour intensive consultation with an experienced and respected family lawyer. She basically told me that having that proof can help, but in terms of the judge punishing the WW monetarily is not, in my mind, that significant. Of course, I could sue for spousal cruelty and other stuff my lawyer mentioned, but that's a bit more difficult.

My intention is to avoid litigation. The only people who wins out are the lawyers. And in the end, less money will be available to my children.

Again, my intention is to avoid litigation and settle this out. If I get the concrete proof, my WW will be absolutely pretrified and would go very far to make sure the sordid details of the affair (a well known respected professional who screws the building custodial staff in dark equipment rooms, getting crabs and infecting her BS with crabs) do not get out. She has a reputation to uphold. Her business may suffer if word got out. She's incredibly conscious about these things. This would be incredibly embarrassing for her.


With the concrete proof in my hand, I could start my offensive. In the prior posts, I mentioned that I did not want to punish my WW. But, as time goes on, I think my feelings are changing. If the proofs comes to me, it will soon be my turn to dole out the pain. She had her turn, but I'd like to think it will soon be my turn to dole out some pain. Of course, my kids are the most important thing and I will do absolutely everything to protect them.

But, again, getting that proof, may be a pipedream.

The meeting with the lawyer was very helpful. But, it was very depressing. When she explained the custody of children and split up of homes and how kids are affected, I felt deeply saddened. This is the absolute worst part. It made me want to try to reconcile. Can you say roller coaster of emotions?

I have the legal contract and retainer check for my lawyer to get the petition for divorce started. The envelop is addressed and stamped. My hesitation is that maybe I am making this decision too fast. I guess my DD was August 29, 2013. Maybe I should wait a little longer. Waiting in stealth. Trying to see if she screws up and I get the actual proof.

When I mail out the letter, the plan is to have my WW served at her office. I'm not even going to confront her. Do you think this is the right way? Or should I confront her and have her served a few days later? I kind of like the shock and awe approach.

Brandon88
What if I am wrong and that the crabs were contracted through infected bedding, sheets, towels, toilet? I think that is far fetched though. And with all the other things that my WW displays, I do already know the truth.

OKnow
You are so right. When I confronted the WW in August, I could tell she was somewhat pleased with herself that I did not have a bit of proof. That smug look on her face reall makes me mad. I will never forget that look.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Bigger

I have looked in the finances and I think I know where the affair is being financed. A good portion of the A is financed through cash. Many of her clients pay for services in cash and credit card. I'd like to be able to account for the cash, but that would involve me being in her office collecting the cash. I could only imagine how happy that would make my WW to see me at her office everyday. HA!

Actually, I am very suspicious of her business credit card. I have never never ever seen one of the monthly business credit card statements. I know she pays that credit card bill (through her business checking account). She'd pay the bill monthly. But, somehow, starting in August, I see no more checks addressed to the credit card company. Plus, that monthly statement goes to her business address. Not too hard for me to get the key to her mail box though. If I could only get my hands on those monthly statements.

I have checked phone records and found a lot of numbers. Problem is that her office gets tons of phone calls. I have checked to see if there are any recurrent numbers or any numbers with long talk times or weird hours. Nothing stands out. I may not be looking hard enough with the phone numbers. But, I guess I need to pay for a service to do that reverse cell phone lookup.

She and her OM do have the advantage when it comes to the office. The OM has keys and access codes to probably all the doors in the building. He knows the ins and outs of the entire building. I am sure they are absolutely itching to share time together outside of the office. And the only time this will happen is when I am out of town.

I know I am obsessing about the hunt. But, I'm a guy. Give me a problem and I want to solve it. I'm patient. I'm waiting. And when the time is right, she will be served with the petition divorce papers.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

What if I am wrong and that the crabs were contracted through infected bedding, sheets, towels, toilet? I think that is far fetched though.
It seems you answered your own question. I dare say it is more than just far fetched. The odds are astronomical. The point is whether she can put you on the defensive.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3668 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

What if I am wrong and that the crabs were contracted through infected bedding, sheets, towels, toilet? I think that is far fetched though

Agree with Brandon, but anyway, unless you borrowed a towel from someone in your gym,
I am betting you haven't used any bedding/sheets/towels outside of those in your own home. Catching crab lice from a toilet seat is extremely unlikely. Lice cannot live long away from a warm human body. Also, lice do not have feet designed to walk or hold onto smooth surfaces such as toilet seats. Pubic lice are considered to be an STD.
Even if you caught them, not from sexual contact with WW, but from your bed linen, it still implicates her.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Maybe having her served in the office with her co-workers present will shake her up.
Here in NY you don't even need a reason to D, all you have to do is fill out the paper work.

Oh, and by the way you can't get crabs from a toilet seat.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 2:29 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]


BH - 64
fWW - 59

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 446 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Secrets Kept
Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Do you make regular surprise visits into her Office? I would several times a week......after texting her that you would be somewhere else.

Or....make up that "out of town" trip you mentioned would be their only chance to meet outside the office. Get a local hotel or stay with friends/family, then both you & your PI sit & see what happens since she will think the coast is clear.


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
H-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 200 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
Secrets Kept
Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Do you make regular surprise visits into her Office? I would several times a week......after texting her that you would be somewhere else.

Or....make up that "out of town" trip you mentioned would be their only chance to meet outside the office. Get a local hotel or stay with friends/family, then both you & your PI sit & see what happens since she will think the coast is clear.


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
H-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 200 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

I agree with OMG6886; why don't you tell your WW that you are leaving town on a business trip for a couple of days, book a motel room and you and the PI keep tabs on her and the OM.

You may need to put VAR's in your house just in case the OM wants to screw your wife in the marriage bed; sounds like something he would get off on.

Seriously though neither of you love one another; its nearer hate than anything. Certainly no respect. Why not just file and be done with it; then you will be free of this cheater and can move on. Your wife isn't going to reconcile and give up her convenient lover; she isn't going to be your partner again - in both a physical and emotional sense. Why torture yourself any further.


Posts: 1693 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Thanks for the insight everyone.

While I could now just simply file, there are certain things I need to take care of. I am in the process of changing beneficiaries for the investments, life insurance, retirement, educational investments. Also, I have to visit another lawyer to change my revocable trust.

All this has to be done prior to filing for the petition. Otherwise, she stays as the primary beneficiary.

Of course I wouldn't do anything stupid like hide money and have secret accounts. That would bite me in the ass later.

While my WW may be good at lying and duping me for the past 3 or so years, she knows little or next to nothing of the finances. I basically control all the finances, investments, deeds, etc. Sure, it's pretty much community property in a no fault divorce state.

But, if by some miracle I get concrete proof, this becomes incredible leverage. I doubt she will want to fight it out in court (because of discovery). Basically, there will be all sorts of digging and shedding light on every possible detail (credit card statements, office video surveillance tapes). And hopefully she will wake up and realize that all this litigation will be expensive and embarrassing. It will leave less funds for our
kids.

Though I know she will accuse me of being a neurotic obsessive spouse.

If she still refuses to come clean, then I will start asking questions from her employees (current and past), office staff, OM and his wife, etc. This may be uncomfortable for my WW.

As for the surprise visits, I do that now. I bring lunch for her and her secretary. I show up a couple times a week with the kids. I don't expect to find anything then because she is busy working.

Actually, I don't hate her at all. I hate what she did to me and the family. My lawyer has already given me names of child therapists that will be meeting my kids.

As for the out of town trips, that will be scheduled in the upcoming months.

And maybe I will take further tactics against the OM. I know he is a custodial staff and does not make much. I will contact the OM wife and encourage her to protect herself. The idea of helping her out financially (to acquire the services of a top family law attorney) is not out of the question.

I am willing to take some punishment now. First and foremost, I want to protect my kids. But, I also want to be the one who has the last smile.



Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

I thought that changing beneficiaries especially when it comes to pensions and trust funds ( if one is married ) required a signature(in front of a notary as a witness) from the non employee spouse to waive being designated as a beneficiary..In my state it works that way..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 5:47 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1136 | Registered: Nov 2011
Calabro
Member
Member # 8809
Angry  Posted: 6:24 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

I thought that changing beneficiaries especially when it comes to pensions and trust funds ( if one is married ) required a signature(in front of a notary as a witness) from the non employee spouse to waive being designated as a beneficiary..In my state it works that way..

Yep I had that problem. You definitely need her authorization in order to change.
I had a house on my name 15 yrs before I got married and her name was not on the mortgage or deed but when I want to sell it. I needed her signature.


NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU FEEL INFERIOR WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT

Posts: 62 | Registered: Nov 2005
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Deeply,

When I read what you have I see the major red flag of crabs but other than that… pinkish red table-flags at best.

I’m a former cop. It was hammered into me never to jump to conclusions.

I found infidelity sites when I suspected my wife of infidelity about 9 years ago. This is the woman that I met about 18 months after my then-fiancé cheated on me. My wife and I have (fortunately) never had to deal with infidelity in our relationship. But at that time 9 years ago I was just like you; I was dead certain she was cheating.
OK – granted she didn’t give me crabs. Like I say then that is a great red flag. I give you that.

But whatever action of her I posted on the sites I always got the reply that this was definitely a sign of infidelity. So if she stated to go to the gym it was because she was cheating. If she didn’t go to the gym it was because she and (possible) OM had a fight and she was moody. If she bought a new perfume it was because she was cheating, if she didn’t use perfume then it was a sign that she was out of the marriage. If she showed me interest it was to subdue guilt – if she showed me no interest it was because she was cheating.
Eventually it got to be like in the witch trials of yore: if the alleged witch drowned when thrown with her hands tied into a pond then it proved she wasn’t a witch. If she floated she was definitely a witch and was executed. It’s a lose-lose situation.

At that point I recalled the things I learned at the academy and applied while in the force. I stopped trying to discover if she was cheating and started trying to discover what she was DOING. And I used all the tricks; finances, GPS, VAR, stake-outs, traps and all.
Quite quickly after this change of methodology I discovered what was going on. Not infidelity but definitely something I had to fix in the marriage. Something I was lucky to find out and even luckier to fix.

Now – I personally don’t think parking side-by-side or wearing work-out clothes indicate infidelity. I find it strange to think of a janitor having an office harem. I find it strange that this goes on undisturbed despite crabs. Sorry friend but I really don’t see that you have “proof” there.

If you truly want to reconcile then I suggest you talk to your wife about the seriousness of the situation (maybe with a MC or mediator present). Offer that you BOTH take polygraphs, the question being about fidelity and the crabs. After all – she insists you brought them home and you insist she brought them home.
Make it clear to her that there really are only two options: a divorce based on the present situation or a possibility of reconciliation based on truth. If there is something that she want’s to confess to now before the poly then make it clear that you are willing to try to work things out, that by fessing up your marriage might have a chance but that the present situation can only end in divorce.

Other than that… Can you bug her office? Can you bug her purse or computer case? Is there any way you can get some sort of monitoring equipment into the office? You mention having a PI so he should be familiar with this sort of stuff. It definitely doesn’t give you legal evidence but right now all you want is the truth.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5488 | Registered: Sep 2005
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, October 4th (Friday)

Court doesn't care who cheated and how long it went on. They will care about STDs...that can result in another civil action.

The thing you wrote that struck a chord with me: "WW almost has this split personality or Dr.Jeckel Mr.Hyde thing..."
That is EXACTLY what was going on with my SAWH, especially the last 6 months of the A. It's a characteristic of their "secret/double life" they are leading.

Also, it took 2 weeks and more detective work on my end to finally get my SAWH to admit what was going on. He continued to see the OW two week past the original DD. I noticed perfume on a seatbelt in his car and it wasn't mine...and I had not ridden in the car since the prior weekend. I called him out on it and he said he'd given a friend a ride. I bet he did!!! So I did more searching (went through his glove compartment and found jewelry receipts dating back 2+ years for stuff he never gave me) and confronted him in the middle of the night and he finally admitted it. God, what a long strange trip it's been. No matter what happens (we're trying to R but who knows what will end up happening ) I feel so much stronger for getting to the bottom of this and not taking his crap anymore. I will get through this...and so will you!

Hang in there...more info is bound to come to light. It always does. Remember, the spouse is always the last to know...I ignored my gut for way too long.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 855 | Registered: Jun 2013
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, October 4th (Friday)

Bigger

Again your insight is invaluable. May I call you Master Yoda?

Yes, the real red flag are the pubic crabs. You know at first I wasn't sure what I had. I'm in my backyard frequently and have been bitten by fireants, chiggers, fleas, and host of other 6 or 8 legged critters. To make things more confusing for me, one of my kids came home with head lice a few months earlier. I figured they were head lice. I treated myself with the lice shampoo and really didn't think much of it. But, now I realize the head lice and pubic lice are two different animals/species. Head lice stay on the head. Pubic lice likes the pubes (and eyelashes too - a sign of child sexual abuse).

Plus, when I confronted my wife about the crabs and affair, her response was highly defensive (more like venomous).

I also agree with you about all the other things (the gym, implants, moodiness, secretiveness of her cell phone, not wanting to share password for her business account) are definitely not proof. To me they are some possible signs of infidelity. But, looking at the overall picture, I am very suspicious.

I really appreciate your comment about checking out what she is DOING. I have caught several of her lies. She tells me that she has to go to one of my kids school function for an hour, but the GPS shows she went directly to the office. And when she gets home she tells me about the school function and what went on there. Or she tells me that she will go to the gym and then to the store to buy a gift for a colleague who is retiring. The GPS shows she went to the gym and then straight to the office. The PI told me that she only had her purse with her (and not a gift bag). The GPS tracker has shown some strange behavior. Like the other day, she was leaving the office. I assume she was going to the gym. But, it shows the car leaving the office and then returning back to the office. But, instead of parking in the front of the building (usual spot), the GPS shows her car parked in the back of the office building. In the 3-4 years she has been in this office, I have never seen her park the car in the back. And she is not the type to look for different parking spots.

The weird thing was that she left the keys in the car and ignition running while I assume she ran into the building (VAR picked this up). I have no idea what this means. Maybe she left something in the office. But, I can't understand why she parked in the back. If I may jump to conclusion, I'd say she was meeting OM for the 5-10 minutes. But, I could be entirely wrong.

During most of the times I have placed VAR in my/her car, I only hear the radio (and a lot of road noise/interference). The place I need to put the VAR is in his office. As much as I would like to, I think that may be illegal.

There's nothing going on in her office (because her secretary is there 8 hours) and my WW will not get up early if she can help it.

I had thought about the polygraph test. Is this controversial? I know very little about the polygraph, but have heard some people swear by it and others totally discount it.

I was gungho about having her served with the divorce papers...until I read your post. I do very much like your idea of talking to her and getting the polygraph. If she refuses to do the test, then what? Does that mean I have my answer? Or could it mean she is in the camp that discounts the utility of the polygraph test?

Actually, is it possible for an honest person to fail the polygraph (because of nervousness)? I would hate to take the test and then fail it because I was nervous or sweating. How awful would that be?

About the beneficiary stuff... I was able to call my investment company and have it changed for both the retirement and nonretirement accounts. Now, for the revocable living trust, that may be a different animal. No problem changing beneficiary for my life insurance policy (in case my WW and OM decide to add strichnine to my diet - just kidding - I hope).

I appreciate everyone's advice and experience. For me I have to make sure I do this right. I don't want to rush it and regret it later.
You guys and gals are the best (and I do mean that).


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
deeplysaddened
New Member
Member # 40607
Default  Posted: 1:12 AM, October 4th (Friday)

Womaninflux

Yes, you are right about the STD's. But, in my case, I self treated and was clean. No damages. No medical record. For all I know, the opposing counsel could say it never happened.

But, what is interesting is that when I confronted my WW about the crabs, she accused me of cheating. Now this is assinine because if I were the one who was cheating, why the hell would I bring to her attention I had crabs? I would secretly treat myself and hope to God that she didn't get infected. And that is what I think she went through. Now that is a bad feeling to have - hoping to God your spouse doesn't get your crabs and come to you asking about it.

And by the way, when I showed her my bite marks and itchy red bumps, she didn't blink an eye. She shrugged and walked away.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Topic Posts: 34