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Just Found Out
User Topic: I was right all along
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

My husband convinced me for the past year that he was not unfaithful. Instead I was made to feel like I was a lunatic. He denied. I started to believe him because we have a 3 month old and I want to keep it all together. Yesterday he did not want to give me a password to his cc. I looked at old charges and saw hotel charges from April - August of last year. I called the hotel and they said he was there every week in August and paid in cash. He admitted what he did. I'm sick to my stomach. I can't bring myself to do what my 3 month old needs from me so I asked my sister for help. I don't want to believe it. I cannot tolerate knowing he held, kissed, and slept with another woman, not one considering what we would lose for his brief moments of pleasure. Thinking of the two of them together makes me sick but the image pops into my head. How could he enjoy involving himself in such destructive behavior. Why wasn't my love enough? Why wasn't I enough? Why didn't he think about the hurt this would cause. I'm too upset to go through and read the other posts or library. I just cannot focus. Please tell me I will survive because I must say I don't want to live right now.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

Please tell me I will survive because I must say I don't want to live right now.

Trust me you will be OK. In fact it takes alot of guts to trust your gut and go ahead and look at those CC bills. You KNOW deep down inside that you needed to know more, you knew he was lying you just were not ready to face it.

Instead I was made to feel like I was a lunatic. He denied.

^^This is the part where you need to get very angry and stick to your guns.^^

He LET you feel crazy. His comfort and his needs were more important then you. Throwing you and your sanity under the bus was more important. He also used joint funds to see this OW. I would say its time for you to get those bitch boots on and figure out whether you want to keep this kind of guy around.


Posts: 5679 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
MJane
Member
Member # 40571
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

Statistic hang in there and you have to believe one thing - his A is not about you but about him. I found out a few weeks about my H started an A when I was in last months of pregnancy (a baby we longed for and that I struggled to have) - it rocked my world to think that he was sleeping with her while I was in hospital and breast feeding our child at nights (working late...). I still struggle every day with the sadness but you will find moments of light and that baby you hold will be one of the things that helps bring that about. I look at my son now, 19 Months, and realise that I can and will get through this and that the selfish idiot that is his father just damaged the most important things in his life to feel worshipped or a buzz (OW is stalker like and I think he loved all the attention). Whatever happens in next few weeks and months hang in there and know you have friends on here. I am grateful every day for the advice and also the humour that pulls me through. About the OW you also need to think that it has little to do with "her" - she is not better, more beautiful, smart etc - she was just someone ready and willing and desperate enough to go with a married man...she isn't competition she is a symptom....take good care of yourself and your little one and hope you have some support for you.

Posts: 253 | Registered: Sep 2013
SurelyNOT
Member
Member # 40617
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

PLEASE reading other peoples responses really does help. Day 55 after discovery day, and I have to say, I have found tremendous strength, bolstering, advice, solace and believe it or not some laughs. Not only will you survive, you will triumph, YES the road ahead is bumpy and all uphill, your scars run deep and they will forever remind you of your ordeal BUT they will heal over and will no longer be a threat to your existence.
(((HUGS))) to you and best wishes on this mammoth journey. You have found SI and it will prove invaluable.

Posts: 95 | Registered: Sep 2013
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

Statistic
Please see a lawyer and make sure you understand your rights if you divorce.
I am sorry you are here.
Please tell your OBGYN. They will need to Run a panel of STD test on you do this ASAP? Make sure they include the test for HPV.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

Thank you for the quick replies. Ive never felt pain like this before. Since asking him to leave, the only time he's contacted me was to tell me about the "consequences" if I were to tell anyone he works with. He said that I would effectively ruin any chance of reconciliation bc he will lose his job and not be able to support us and he will be forced to leave the city.

Why do I feel guilty? I cannot stand him being mad at me or thinking poorly of me. Even after all he has done, I don't want to hurt him or make him angry. After all he has done, I wish he would show more desperation or act like a man whose losing everything. Instead, he was first apologetic, I said I could not forgive him, and now he is just angry. It's like he wants me to move past this now. What is wrong with me? How can I be so weak and stupid? It's like the worse he treats me and angrier he gets, the more I want to make HIM feel better. Right now I am texting and calling because I want to know details about the affair and feel like I have the right to know. He ignored me. He says I am handling this wrong and ruining any chance of reconciliation by purposefully making him feel bad and criticizing him about what he did. Will he ever understand the pain he has inflicted? Will he ever regret? Will he ever experience the sense of loss I feel? Or does he get to have an exciting affair with a woman and get his need met, then get off scott free without any emotional consequence?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

It's normal that you hurt so much! It's like getting hit by a truck. Betrayal is a horrible experience, and he's heaping rejection on top of it.

There are only a lucky few among us who canít relate to the intense pain of being rejected by a significant other. If a breakup is unexpected, itís all the more painful ó it can hurt with such intensity that you canít breathe, as if youíve been punched in the gut.

According to Edward Smith, a psychologist at Columbia University, thereís a reason for that. Along with a team of colleagues, Smith found that intense emotional pain can activate the same neural pathways as physical pain. So being rejected can really hurt in a visceral, physical way as if youíve really been punched.

Also, rejection causes chemical changes in your brain that make you pursue the one who rejected you and long to have him back. Even to the point of accepting bad treatment.

Romantic rejection actually triggers changes in our brains, according to anthropologist Helen Fisher, who has studied the chemistry of romantic love. Her research was eye-opening for me. It answered a lot of questions about my own reactions to being cheated on and rejected, and will probably shine some light on yours. She describes how brain scans of rejected people suggest that they secrete excess dopamine and cortisol during the initial phase of being rejected. That's why rejected lovers get frantic and tend to relentlessly pursue their beloved. They may also take humiliating measures to reconnect with him or her--anything from writing letters to storming into the other lover's home to begging him to change his mind.

This is normal and explainable, but it doesn't make it less awful and painful.

((statistic)) The important thing is that all this is temporary. These feelings will not last forever. You will survive and you will thrive, and so will your sweet baby!

I think your a$$hole WH is rejecting you first so that he won't have to feel the pain of your judgement. He is shutting you out so that he can continue to think he is a good guy.

Soon, you will be able to get mad. Who is he to assume reconciliation is a possibility?? That would be your decision and your gift to give IF he took full responsibility for his actions.

Will he ever experience the sense of loss I feel? Or does he get to have an exciting affair with a woman and get his need met, then get off scott free without any emotional consequence?

It is possible that he will never feel remorse. If so, he is a sociopath or has a personality disorder, and you need to get away from him asap.

But you don't have any control over what he does or feels. So protect yourself and your child. See a lawyer. Ignore him. The more you contact him, the more he hurts you.

Look up the 180 in the Healing Library and focus on you! Keep posting, we hear you.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
headdesk
Member
Member # 40787
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Big hugs.Remember anger (and threats - like the don't tell work one) is all about control. Many people will use many different ways to get what they'd like (some of which are manipulation) but threats/anger have nothing to do with you - they're his way of throwing and (adult??) 2 year old tantrum to get what he wants. It's not him being inspired to do true work or really make a change in his own behaviour, it's about controlling yours.


Me: 39
WH: 42
DDay:Sep 19 2013 (only TT of EA)
Oct 4th 2013 revealed PA through snooping.
Marred 16 years, together for 20. Looking to R at this time. We have awesome kids (12/14).

Posts: 273 | Registered: Sep 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

((((Statistic))))
OMG..After what he has done he has the balls to threaten you?
You ought to tell him to take his threats and put them where the light doesn't shine..
See a lawyer to know your rights in case he abandons you and your baby or you want to file for D


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Oh BTW, he doesn't get off scott free..Pls see the lawyer..
Make it an absolute condition of R that a post nup is to be in place that he signs..This post nup should state that there will be the consequence of D with settlement hugely in your favor should he be caught cheating again..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:07 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Everything you all say makes complete sense, from putting my bitch boots on to not falling for his threats. I'm in the weaker position here because I adore this man and am having trouble separating this horrible behavior from the man I love. How do I do these things? How do I get a backbone? I'm terrified of living alone and raising my daughter alone. I notified the husband of the other woman bc they were going through a divorce and he did not have proof of her affair. I told him I have proof. He told my husband that he will be notifying his boss that he is sleeping with clients which is against the rules. My husband called me now saying I had a chance to stay with him but I ruined it by throwing him under the buss and forcing him to lose his job. He said because of this, he wants nothing to do with my daughter and I and it is all my fault. I feel horrible. Please she's some rationale thought in me bc I cannot think straight. Was I wrong? Did I ruin any chance? I'm not sure I was even considering a potential reconciliation. I just found out yesterday for gods sake!


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
MJane
Member
Member # 40571
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Statistic it is not R if you are the only one doing the work - I know you still love him and are worried about the baby but think about what kind of a marriage you will be in if he thinks he holds all the cards even when the hurt and damage has been all his doing. Please do read the 180 and you need to get some space and support - is there anyone in your life you can turn to for this? If he s like this right now how do you know it is over with the OW and how on earth will you get any trust back for someone who lacks all remorse and empathy for what he has put you through? Please put aside your fear and very natural desire for your world to be as it once was - it will never be but you need time to work out what is best for YOU

Posts: 253 | Registered: Sep 2013
shatter-ed
Member
Member # 27159
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

I am so sorry that you have had to join us here but welcome to a place full of wonderful support _ for which I personally will be forever grateful.

You say you adore this man and cannot separate him from his horrible behavior? Not only has he cheated, lied and deceived you and made you feel like you were a lunatic but he has now told you that because you told the BH of his MOW he wants nothing to do with not only you but his baby daughter????? And you still adore this man?

The possibility of R is down to you not him. He needs to be remorseful before you can even think of it and he certainly doesn't sound like he is yet? From my experience my FWH was remorseful and begging my forgiveness from day one but from what I have read on here it is not always like that and some WH start off like yours and take a while to "get it" then some never do

Take care of you -eat,drink and sleep- and your baby for now, it is good your sister can help out. Also check out the library in the top left corner, loads of good advise and helpful info.

Take care and (((hugs))) to you


BS (me)
WH
3 amazing kids.
R - trying.
DDay - 06/11/09 MOW desperate fugly neighbor

Posts: 599 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: uk
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

((((statistic))))

Please do take care of yourself first and then your precious little baby. You are worthy of so much better than this.

I know it is confusing and terrifying. Keep posting and get support from many wonderful people here on SI. Find someone in real life who you can lean on - who can help you out. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Many people are willing to help, but don't know when they are needed!

Stay hydrated, eat, and try to sleep. You will need lots of energy for the rollercoaster ahead. Try to steel yourself against the stupid things he will say and do for a while or possibly indefinitely. For some WSs, they "get it" right away. For some, it takes a long time. For others, they never will. You have no idea which category he will fall in (except not the first, obviously!). Don't try to fix him. I've tried for months and IT DOESN'T WORK! He needs to figure this out for himself and fix himself. No matter how much you want to do it for him or make him "get it", your efforts will be futile. Trust me, I know how hard it is to let go of trying to control the outcome. Reconciliation is a difficult, 2-way process. You absolutely cannot do it on your own, no matter how hard you try.

So, in the meantime, as hard as it is, try not to worry about where his head is at, and just concentrate on taking care of yourself and your sweet DD. It's the best therapy.

Wishing you the very best. I am so sorry for your pain. You WILL survive this! Don't ever give up. Your baby needs you now more than ever!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 715 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
ToTrustAgain
Member
Member # 15167
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Statistic -

First off, I am so sorry you are going through this horrible nightmare. Take deep breaths, and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

My husband called me now saying I had a chance to stay with him but I ruined it by throwing him under the buss and forcing him to lose his job.

PLEASE believe me - you did NOT throw him under the bus. You did NOT "cause" him to lose his job. HE did this. HIS actions, HIS behavior, HIS cheating did this. He's trying to turn this all around on you, and he's using your love for him to make you feel guilty.

Get angry, Statistic! He's threatening you, twisting things around so they seem like your fault, and playing on your sympathies/devotion. He is also using your newborn daughter as leverage - how sick is that?

He should be groveling for your forgiveness, not threatening you. You have done nothing wrong here, please trust us on that.

I think you need to see a lawyer and get educated. Knowledge is power here. Seeing a lawyer does not necessarily mean you are heading toward divorce, but it will give you some confidence and peace to know your options.

(hugs)


"We will not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it."

Posts: 82 | Registered: Jun 2007
hopingforhappy
Member
Member # 29288
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

statistic, I am so sorry that you are in such a horrible place. You need time to get yourself together. I hope you are able to continue to rely on your sister for help. If you have other friends or family you can call on, now is the time to do that. You need to go NC with your WH immediately. What he is saying to you is designed to manipulate you and cause you confusion. He knows how much you love him and he is using it against you. Stop taking his calls and reading his texts. He thinks you are weak--show him that you are strong, even if you have to fake it.

Right now, you just need to take care of yourself and your baby. Focus on that, not him (easier said than done, I know). You need to get a consult with a lawyer ASAP. Knowledge is power and you will feel much better when you know and understand your rights. You don't need to make any decisions, but you may shock your WH into reality by filing for D. You should certainly get temporary orders for child support, if he has left the house and threatened to abandon you and your child. Please document all of the things he says for your lawyer to see. Open a bank account in your name only and move half of your joint funds there. You are entitled to that money.

You did the right thing by telling the other BS. The consequences of your WH's actions are coming home to roost. That is a good thing. Either he will man up and deal with it or not. Watch his actions and you will know what to do.

Right now, take care or yourself and your beautiful baby. Hugs.

[This message edited by hopingforhappy at 2:05 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]


Me--BW (56)
Him--FWH (53)--5yr. LTA--OW probably BPD
Married 20 years
DS-18, DD-15
Reconciling--but boy is it hard!

Posts: 1334 | Registered: Aug 2010
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

You love this man....? Cause any guy who can even think this is a royal asshole!!!

My husband called me now saying I had a chance to stay with him but I ruined it by throwing him under the buss and forcing him to lose his job. He said because of this, he wants nothing to do with my daughter and I and it is all my fault.

Whoever he was, or whoever you thought he was he isn't that guy now. You are dealing with someone else, someone who lies to his pregnant wife for months at a time and let's her feel she is going crazy.

You need to be someone else to, someone stronger, someone who is going to step up and protect your 3 month old.

Please read the about the 180, it will strengthen you. You can get through this and you will. You just need some time to adjust to the reality. Lean on your sister, take some rest with your baby. And never for a second believe that his horrific choices had anything to do with you. His choices put you here, his lies, his willful deceit and cheating. His decision forfeited his job. Don't buy into his bullshit and don't count on him to make it better for you.

Right now, this guy, obviously only cares about himself.

((((statistic & babe))))) Hang on, it won't always hurt this badly. It gets better. Hang in there.


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4133 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

(((statistic)))

I am so sorry that you find yourself here with us. None of us wanted to be here. I only wish I had found this site sooner, it has been a lifesaver.
All of us felt the same way as you do now---we just wanted our old lives back. But your WH has ended that life.

What is happening to him are consequences of his actions, not yours. It is good that OW BH knows.

Not only has your WH (& OW) stabbed you in the heart with a knife,

not only did WH tried to make you think that you were crazy during the past year ,when you tried to tell him that you feel the point of the blade on your chest ,& he told you that you were imagining things,

but now your WH is blaming the atomic destruction of his life on you, & using your baby as blackmail.

I hope you will sooner rather than later be able to see that he is despicable.

The only chance you have of R your marriage is to be willing to end it. Maybe he will come out of the Fog & "get it", & even then it will be a long road to healing, & maybe he wont, in which case you don't want him.

So , right now, you have to get as much help as you can, take care of yourself & your baby, get your ducks in a row to go on with your life, & see a lawyer. Please trust us , we are further down this road than you, that it will get better. Once day you will be writing this to someone who has just found out.
You do not deserve this. You are not the problem.
Sending you hugs & strength . You can do it.
We are all here for you. Come back here often.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
Hope2B
Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

I'm in the weaker position here because I adore this man and am having trouble separating this horrible behavior from the man I love.
Here are my thoughts. This love-the-person-hate-the-behavior is Psycho-Babble 101. The behavior and the man are so enmeshed that the horrible behavior IS part of who this man really is. You fell in love with a dream, with someone who put on a persona, a facade, for you.

My husband called me now saying I had a chance to stay with him but I ruined it by throwing him under the buss and forcing him to lose his job. He said because of this, he wants nothing to do with my daughter and I and it is all my fault.

This is emotional blackmail. He's trying to manipulate you and make you pay in emotional coin, holding things over your head in order for you to do what he wants, dangling the carrot and then telling you the repercussions are all your fault. Don't buy into this! He is playing you!

I cannot stand him being mad at me or thinking poorly of me.
Girl, buck up and find your spine--you can do this! He has already denigrated you with his behavior and his reactions. It's done.

How do you stay strong and get a backbone? You think of your child, and you pull strength from that love whenever you're feeling weak. You stand up for yourself, you behave with flat affect (no emotion, just simple declarative sentences), and you don't buy into his words and you Do. Not. Engage. with him. He is desperate and you have him on the ropes.

You have got to make decisions that are good for you and your baby, starting NOW. When (if) he starts making like he's Mr. Nicey Nice, don't believe him.

Sure, it's scary being a single mom with a babe, and it won't be easy. You have a sister, so you're not alone. To stay in a relationship with him would be worse because this man is showing you his true colors. Do you really WANT that kind of person around?

You will survive!

[This message edited by Hope2B at 2:54 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]


Me: early 60s
Him: 65 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo or maybe ever 4x/mo

Posts: 359 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
topperoff22
Member
Member # 40762
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

I am so sorry.....so sorry...Just stay strong. Buy the book After the Affair so you know what to expect of your emotions and don't be afraid to ask family fr help, as you are doing already. This is a trauma...a grieving process.That is exactly how you need to look at it. I'm so sorry. and I am two months out and today is a hard day...I don't want to live either. But there has to be something more to life than a lying, cheating man.....I keep telling myself anyhow,


BS - Me 36
WS - Him 35 (almost 36)
Child: son, 6; just learned one on way
DDAY - July 24, 2013 (thousands spent on ex girlfriend)
DDAY2 -Aug. 3, 2013 (proof he slept with her)
R is slow going after TT for 1 month

Posts: 316 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: US
crazycatlady
Member
Member # 12849
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

If he loved you he wouldn't cheat.
If he respected you he wouldn't emotionally blackmail you.
If he had any balls he would take the consequences of his affair like a man.
Well, he only loves himself, doesn't respect you and is spineless. Open your eyes honey, he is not the person you though he was.
He is a mirage. Start the 180 and shine your bitch boots. You might like them all spiffy when you kick his butt to the curb.


Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.
William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"
D-Day: Nov 30, 2006
"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night."
William Shakespeare

Posts: 1713 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Etherville
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Geez, I got so angry reading this. WHAT A FUCKING ASSHOLE. I read a lot of horrible stuff on here, but this made me want to whoop up an SI posse and chase that man down and beat some sense into him.

You really don't want to be living with this jerk. I know you love him now, but I promise you, the more he exposes who he is, the less you will feel this and one day you'll marvel that you put up with his crap. Right now it's overwhelming, and pain like you've never felt before. And you have a newborn! (WHAT.AN.ASSHOLE). But pretty soon the anger of a thousand suns will burn through you...

Good luck.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1061 | Registered: Aug 2012
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Meant to add this before: You say you love him, but you love the man you thought he was. He is showing you who he really is. Can he become an honorable, caring man? Yes, but he has a lot of work to do. Do not accept one more day with the man he is right now. You & your baby deserve so much more. If you can't get angry for yourself, get angry for your baby. How dare this man treat the mother of his baby this way, & jeapardize the baby's health & well-being!!!

Not only is that not a humane thing to do, an animal wouldn't even do that to another animal .

[This message edited by mchercheur at 4:59 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

You do need your bitch boots...I think you will need to wear them 24-7..

This man who your WH is showing himself to be?..You don't want to live with somebody like that even for a short amount of time..You will feel like you have been buried alive with no way to get free...And chances are if you do allow him back or attempt R he will arrange it to be financially difficult if not impossible for you to leave...Pls see an attorney and make arrangements to protect yourself and your baby..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

You all have no idea how I need to hear your straight talk. I feel like I am in a fog myself and making stupid mistakes like calling/texting him, trying to make HIM feel better, worrying about what will happen to him, etc. Each time I want to do one of these things, I read one of your posts and pull strength from them. You all are my voice of reason, as is my sister, and I need it or else I will again drown.

He just came to ask if we were going to work things out or not. I said I was in no position to decide at the moment. I told him that if we had a shot, he needed to give me what I needed and that includes answering my questions including whether or not they were safe, how did he find time away from work, where did he get the money, etc." and before he answered, he said "Why do you need to know? Who are you going to tell? Let me look at your phone. I want to see who you are telling. We can continue talking after you show me your phone. You only asking these questions so you can tell everyone and ruin me."

I stood up for myself for the first time and said that I am not ruining him and that this is the result of his actions and he should focus on the people in the room: myself and our daughter. His response? He angrily stated,ď How many times are you going to tell me I did wrong? I know! I screwed up. Want me to say it again? I screwed up. Happy now?Ē He said that he already admitted he did wrong so asking questions isn't going to help. He said that "You are impossible to talk to " and walks out of the house.

I understand that he finds himself in a corner and people act really crazy when in a corner. I hope that one day he realizes how he made a bad situation worse.

Several of you question how I can love this man. I question myself all the time and question my own sense of self, dependency, and lack of self-respect.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

You all have no idea how I need to hear your straight talk. I feel like I am in a fog myself and making stupid mistakes like calling/texting him, trying to make HIM feel better, worrying about what will happen to him, etc. Each time I want to do one of these things, I read one of your posts and pull strength from them. You all are my voice of reason, as is my sister, and I need it or else I will again drown.

He just came to ask if we were going to work things out or not. I said I was in no position to decide at the moment. I told him that if we had a shot, he needed to give me what I needed and that includes answering my questions including whether or not they were safe, how did he find time away from work, where did he get the money, etc." and before he answered, he said "Why do you need to know? Who are you going to tell? Let me look at your phone. I want to see who you are telling. We can continue talking after you show me your phone. You only asking these questions so you can tell everyone and ruin me."

I stood up for myself for the first time and said that I am not ruining him and that this is the result of his actions and he should focus on the people in the room: myself and our daughter. His response? He angrily stated,ď How many times are you going to tell me I did wrong? I know! I screwed up. Want me to say it again? I screwed up. Happy now?Ē He said that he already admitted he did wrong so asking questions isn't going to help. He said that "You are impossible to talk to " and walks out of the house.

I understand that he finds himself in a corner and people act really crazy when in a corner. I hope that one day he realizes how he made a bad situation worse.

Several of you question how I can love this man. I question myself all the time and question my own sense of self, dependency, and lack of self-respect.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

I think a lot of us know about putting ourselves last, and not even realizing that we are taking care of our spouses first, walking on eggshells if they are angry... We are the peacekeepers and at times like these - it truly sucks!! Co-dependency is a bitch! And you might want to do some reading on it. But for now, just breath, and snuggle that little girl. This won't resolve in a day, week, or month whatever happens next.

You might want to consider limiting how much you talk to him right now, until he owns up to what he has done and is willing to listen to what you need -- without anger. Because many WS make it much worse when they are still in denial, and covering their asses. Some do more harm during the aftermath of Dday than was done with the A.

Lean on us, read when you can handle it, but be sure to eat and get plenty of fluids. The stress will knock you through a loop and you don't want to get sick right now on top of this. Vitamins! Smoothies! Whatever you can stomach. Trying to get the rest and nourishment you need right now is job one.


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4133 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Statistic's strength-building tip #1 -- Stay on Topic. Always. Do not get distracted.

You said that you told him what you needed (answers) and he dodged, weaved, and smoke-bombed you. AND he got you to address one of his distractors.....*ruining* him......and he successfully re-focused the conversation.

Ignore the mantrums that he's throwing. Stay calm and repeat your statement "if we ha[ve] a shot, [you] need[] to give me what I need[] and that includes answering my questions." Only repeat it 2 times....and if he continues to act like an assjack...then end the conversation.

Honey. You don't need to deal with this brain damage. You have a newborn and you have GOT to be exhausted. He's either going to be *with you* or *against you*.....and right now I can't imagine that you have the energy OR the time to deal with anyone that is working *against you*.

You would be well-served to stop feeling sorry for him. He's an adult. He's made his bed and now he has to lie in it -- too bad, so sad if it's uncomfortable as hell. NOT your problem. You're not going out of your way to cause trouble for him so you don't have anything to feel *bad* about. He wasn't worried about *feeling bad* for you when he was cheating on you while you were pregnant, was he? Save your caring/compassion/empathy for IF he stops acting like an entitled asshole. As long as he continues to act as he is right now -- give him the *Heisman*.

(I apologize if my post seems a bit *angry*.....WH's that cheat on the woman that is pregnant with their child make me feel especially stabby.....)


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8085 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, September 29th (Sunday)

Oh geez, I am so sorry to read about this.

You have received excellent advice....now believe it.

Change the game. Go dark on him. 180 on YOUR terms. He doesn't get to call the shots. Give yourself the gift of time and TLC...for as long as you need. He obviously is not going to do this for you.

If you hurt someone like he did to you, what would you do to help that person?

How is he trying to help you feel better and heal? Why is this OK with you?

He is only working on destroying you more to save his sorry ass. Can you see how sick and twisted this is?

Again, I am so sorry. You will get through this, but it wont be easy, but you have the character and strength to do the right things for your baby.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2711 | Registered: Jan 2010
newlysingle
Member
Member # 38735
Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, September 30th (Monday)

(((Statistic)))

I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. I know exactly how you feel. My son was only 4 months old (I also have a 5 year old) when my XH came home from a business trip and announced out of the blue that he wanted a divorce. He gave me no warning at all. Everything seemed fine until that day. I of course asked if he was having an A and of course he lied and said no. I then busted him about a month later when the whore tried to facetime with him on his ipad. He moved out of our house the next day and moved her from out of state and in with him.

You are in the raw stages right now. I also begged, pleaded, cried, etc. for him to reconsider until I found about the A. Then the anger set in (remember I had a month in between here). I became enraged at him. It was actually a good thing. I went to an attorney and drafted a divorce agreement where he had to pay a huge sum of money on top of child support. His head was so far up his ass with the A, he just wanted me gone to make his whore happy. He agreed to everything with no issues.

My divorce was just finalized and I can honestly say that I'm in a really good place. I know your fears, I was terrified of being a single mom. However, in my case, he traveled so much for work that he was never much help anyway. Also, he takes the kids 9 days per month, so I actually get time to myself. I never had that before. They have to stay with him and OW, which I thought would make me drive off of a cliff at first, but it's been okay. The kids know I'm their mom, no matter how much he tries to push that bitch onto them. She is nice to them at least, mostly because I think she's a little afraid of me.

My point is, I'm about 7 months ahead of you in this horrible path and I can honestly say that I'm happier. I'm closer to my kids, family and friends than I ever was before. My biggest piece of advice is to confide in others. Don't hold this in. I was afraid of being judged or just being embarrassed initially, but people were overwhelmingly supportive. I had so many offers to help with childcare, bringing me dinner, etc. I also got on anti-depressents so I could function and started IC. We never bothered with MC, because the XH never even wanted to try. He just wanted his whore.

I PROMISE that you will get through this. It will probably be the worst thing you'll ever go through, but you'll come out a stronger person on the other end. You are going to be an awesome mom to your dd no matter what happens. If that arsehole wants to cut off contact with his daughter, then he is losing something huge. You are not.

See an attorney right away. Know your rights before you make any decisions. You don't have to D right now if you're not ready. If your WH is willing to do MC, then give it a shot. See a doctor, get some anti-depressants so you can function and start IC for yourself.

[This message edited by newlysingle at 12:02 AM, September 30th (Monday)]


BW - Me (37)
XWH - (37) The Gnat
OW - Some dumb whore he picked up in another state and moved here here. Known as Hello Kitty.
M for 8 years, together for 10
1 DD (5), 1 DS (1 year)
Dday 3/13
Divorced 9/20/13

Posts: 920 | Registered: Mar 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Second night in a row I wake up desperately ill and vomiting. I cannot handle this. I want the world to stop so I can catch up. I want to stick my head in the sand and let everything go back to normal, even it's is temporary, even if it's false. I hope one day I am further along like some of you.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 12:40 AM, September 30th (Monday)

I'm so confused. He has done horrible, devastating things, but I also remember him doing the most wonderful, loving things. He supported my parents financially for the past 5 years! He is a great father. He helped me in every way. But he has done these horrible things too. Which person is really him? I keep thinking that he can't be that bad for me if he has done these other wonderful things. I know that's crazy to say given what he has done. But I guess these behaviors trump the good stuff.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
newlysingle
Member
Member # 38735
Default  Posted: 1:20 AM, September 30th (Monday)

It is really difficult to realize that the kind, caring man you married has now become a monster. Mine did too and still hasn't come back. I'm coming to terms with the fact that the man I married is dead. This new person that emerged is not him and not anyone I would have ever dated.

Please see a doctor tomorrow and start some anti-depressants. You need to get yourself at a basic functioning level, before you can deal with this. Having post-partum hormones on top of it all just makes it worse. Call your OBGYN tomorrow and let them know that you are having anxiety/depression. They will get you in ASAP. I know my OBGYN office takes post partum depression very seriously (although I know this wasn't caused by having a baby). I went through my OBGYN and she was so kind about it. I was embarrassed at first, since she had just delivered my son with my doting husband at my side a few months earlier. She was very understanding and also ran a full panel of STD tests. That is another thing you need to do to make sure you are okay.

Once you get some medication and a counselor to talk to, you will at least begin to see what steps you need to take. Right now, you are so raw that you don't know which way is up. I get, I've been there.

My heart so goes out to you. Please lean on your family and friends right now. You are going to need a lot of support, especially with the new baby.


BW - Me (37)
XWH - (37) The Gnat
OW - Some dumb whore he picked up in another state and moved here here. Known as Hello Kitty.
M for 8 years, together for 10
1 DD (5), 1 DS (1 year)
Dday 3/13
Divorced 9/20/13

Posts: 920 | Registered: Mar 2013
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 1:22 AM, September 30th (Monday)

So Sorry, everyone else has given you better advice than I can, but I wanted you wish you well and letcha know that you are stronger than you think you are (((((statistic)))).

You can do this!!!


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
Hope2B
Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, September 30th (Monday)

He is a great father.

How can he be a great father when your babe is barely 3 months old? At this point, he's a sperm donor.

A good person, a person who loves you, cares for you, protects you, helps you, and reveres and helps your & his parents, DOES NOT BEHAVE THIS WAY as he is behaving toward you.

I keep thinking that he can't be that bad for me if he has done these other wonderful things. I know that's crazy to say given what he has done. But I guess these behaviors trump the good stuff.
Oh goodness, now it sounds like you *want* to make excuses for him. Would you want any man to treat your daughter the way you are being treated? PLEASE wake up. Please read the 180, and PLEASE do not buy into his crap and avoidance and his ploys to lay guilt at your feet, along with his distractions.

Believe me, the vomiting will go away after a bit (been there, done that) and hopefully you'll tap into the lava that is just under your surface, and clearheadedly be able to do what's best for you and your little girl--even if it means you'll be a single momma.


Me: early 60s
Him: 65 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo or maybe ever 4x/mo

Posts: 359 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 3:23 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Your husbands behavior is one of blaming the victim

You did right by notifying the other spouse even if your husband loses his job.

He needs to put this right.

He broke marital boundaries.

He broke company boundaries.

Now, time to man up and put on his big boy boots and make amends....or continue not manning up and continue blaming others for his problems.

However, his actions are hardly unusual for a WS. My wife let me think i was unfairly suspicious about her affair and behavior for years...and blamed me initially.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 1012 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, September 30th (Monday)

He is a great father.

What makes you say this?

A great father doesn't destroy his kid's family.

A great father treasures his wife and their new baby.

Sweetie, you are in shock and wanting to go into deep denial. Part of you knows the truth though, because you are here and posting. You cannot wish this away. If you rugsweep this, it will not go away either. There are tons of stories on this site of people that have done this and regret choices they made while in the rugsweeping stage.

Look at reality. And if you cannot see it, ask us. Because our vision is clear and sharp.

(((((Hugs)))))))))

Keep coming here. Keep posting.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2711 | Registered: Jan 2010
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Which person is really him?

Time will tell.

Your goal is to detach from his behavior.

I want the world to stop so I can catch up.

Ignoring him and focusing on you and the baby is the way to gain peace and clarity. His behavior is making you feel crazy. It's making you sick. You need to get away from him, physically and mentally, so you can stabilize.

Shut him out. Reach out for support IRL. (I like newlysingle's idea of going to your OB/GYN. Doctors have heard way worse, and nothing phases them. They want to help and know how to help.)

If you feel like calling/texting him, come hear and read your thread for strength. There's so much hard won wisdom here!


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
hopingforhappy
Member
Member # 29288
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, September 30th (Monday)

You don't have to say this to him right now (as you really should not be talking to him at all), but the answer to his question about how many times he needs to say he is sorry is that he needs to be willing to say it as many times as necessary--and once won't cut it. 1,000 times may not cut it. My FWH still says it to me after 3 1/2 years and I still need to hear it. If he thinks he can say it once and all will be forgiven, he is sadly mistaken. Recovering from something like this takes a lot of time and much hard work on the part of both parties. Forgiveness is earned.

He is not remorseful, he is not ready to do the hard work, he is not R material. He may get to that point some day, but not now. 180 is your friend. Stay strong for yourself and your daughter.

ETA: I just went back and read what you wrote and it is even worse than I thought. He apparently never said that he was sorry, he just said that he knew that he screwed up. More blame shifting--that "stop making me feel bad about what I did" stuff will not fly.

[This message edited by hopingforhappy at 8:58 AM, September 30th (Monday)]


Me--BW (56)
Him--FWH (53)--5yr. LTA--OW probably BPD
Married 20 years
DS-18, DD-15
Reconciling--but boy is it hard!

Posts: 1334 | Registered: Aug 2010
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Statistic, you've gotten some great advice, honey. I know it's hard to hear, but it is all true.

Remember how he said that because you outed him, he wanted nothing else to do with you OR YOUR DAUGHTER? Good dads would never say this. Great dads would never THINK this. He's not a great dad. Like Hope2B said, however much it feels harsh to say, your WH is a sperm donor at this point. The fact that he could do this to you and your daughter, then say things like that mean, frankly, he's a selfish person who is only concerned for himself - at best.

I'm so sorry. I'm so furious for you. You need to read in The Healing Library about "gaslighting" which is exactly what he's been doing with you throughout this. A person who's remorseful doesn't do this. A person who loves you more than his own issues PUTS YOU FIRST.

There are no exceptions. There are no reasons why someone can choose what your WH has chosen and be a good person or have your interests at heart.

Please read up on the 180. Please put you and your daughter first. He's not going to. He's going to keep hurting you, S.

Be brave. We're all with you. There's nothing he's done that isn't cliche for what anyone who can betray a partner acts out. Truly. We've all seen it.

He's not special. He's not a great dad. He's a cheat and a liar and a bully right now.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
PeaceLove187
Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Sweetie, your H is weak. He's lashing out because all he knows how to do is make people happy--playing the role of great dad, helping your parents, probably believing he's "helping" the AP--and you've caught him being the bad guy. He has no coping skills when it come to being the bad guy so he's swinging at everything that moves. Strong people say "I'm sorry", face up to what they did wrong, and do what they can to fix it. Weak people lash out.

You are the strong one here. You are in the trenches taking care of your baby and holding your life together. Don't waste your energy arguing nonsense and what he's giving you nonsense. This will get better but it gets better faster if you insist on rational behavior from him and don't try to fix the situation for him. He screwed up and if he wants to freak out about how much he screwed up, let him. And yes, I learned that lesson the hard way.


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 638 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Lots if good advice here ..I keep echoing it each time I write a post..

Time really and definitely will tell..Clarity tends to come as things/events unfold..

I may have forgiven my WH for the A had he been truly remorseful..My WH is almost a carbon copy of yours( in attitude and behavior) with the exception of the work situation...

It is the entitled attitude and lack of remorse (threats, blaming, not answering questions, arguing in circles, etc, etc) on the part of WS that eventually kills all love and good will that the BS may have have felt for him or her immediately in the aftermath of D-Day..

Because of the disrespectful way my WH treated me in the aftermath of my discovery of his cheating and lies, there is no way in hell I will reconnect and bond with him as a wife..Not now, not ever..Now there is too much water under the bridge..Because of my circumstances I am biding my time but I know physical separation and D is what I want.. Until then we sleep in separate bedrooms and try to avoid each other as much as possible while in the house..

I lost two and a half years Post D day in false R..I didn't know about SI at first and I didn't seek the support of people who had been in my shoes in regards to infidelity...I thought that I HAD to try R before proceeding to D..

One can head off the battering and slow death of self esteem, and soul, the waste of time encountered in a false R if one knows the signs of a lack of remorse in WS..Fortunately for you you found this forum early..

From what I gather of your situation (obviously you are still in child bearing years) you have the luxury of youth going your way..If I had it to do over again I would not have rug swept my WH'S first A, an ONS that happened 27 years ago when my baby was 3 months old..

In hindsight I should have divorced WH,rebuilt my life while I was still young, I probably would have avoided the unhappiness that I am facing today..
The fear of being a single mom stopped me when it shouldn't have..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:51 AM, September 30th (Monday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, September 30th (Monday)

Thank you DoggieDiva for sharing you story. I, too, am letting fear drive my every move and thought. I can't seem to stay angry which is really what I need. As others have said, I am in denial in many ways. He has been good to my daughter and I since she was born... Totally dedicating his life to us, then I find this out. I am surprised at the way others respond to me. When I say that I've had enough and feel like only divorce is an option, I'm told over and over that I need to slow down, think of the long term consequences of divorce, and if I think he can change and maybe we can work things out if he is truly remorseful and willing to work. My response is "what about the damage that has been done?" I don't know anything about the future and I don't want to bet on possibilities anymore. All I know is what happened and it is too much for me to forgive no matter how much I want to deep down. I will continue to post and hope you all continue to respond because no one else in my life has been here before and I'm having trouble getting the type of advice I need from then.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, September 30th (Monday)

You all were right. I read your posts anytime I wanted to reach out. I stood up for myself. He has done a 180 of his own and apologized profusely, admiting everything, answering all my questions without hesitation or anger, and said that of course none of this was my fault and that he has been a monster to me out of fear. He explained the affair from beginning to end. I'm satisfied for the time being. Somehow it's a releif that he admitted his wrong doing, I have the answers I needed, and he is no longer playing mind games because there isn't anything to hide any longer. I am going to relax for a moment and not think about the future for a minute because it is too much for me. I know I have to divorce him because of what he has done or else lose my self respect. I'm just not ready.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Lalagirl
Member
Member # 14576
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, September 30th (Monday)

(((((statistic)))))

I know I have to divorce him because of what he has done or else lose my self respect

Not necessarily. Give yourself time. Get into IC/MC (both of you). IF he does the work and is truly remorseful, there may be a chance.

But...sometimes infidelity is a dealbreaker in a M no matter what.

Either way, we are here for you and will support you 110%.


Me - 49; FWH - 51
Married 31 years 9/2/14
2 grown daughters-30 & 27
5yo GS,22 mo.& 2 mo. GD (DD30) and 2.5 yo GD(DD27). D-day #1 - 1/06; D-day #2 - 3/07
Reconciled! Construction Complete.

Posts: 5079 | Registered: May 2007
OnAnIsland
Member
Member # 34319
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, September 30th (Monday)

I am I sorry for what you are going through. You have gotten sme good advice above. You need to focus on yourself Snd your daughter right now. On loving her and on healing you.

But divorce isn't necessarily inevitable. Once I reaized how rough this infidelity s#%Ä is, I gave myself 6 months to see progress and to reassess. I needed to take care of myself, heal, and learn about infidelity. Take your time.

You have done a great job in such a difficult situation. Stick to the basics now- sleep, food, water.


D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful boys in elementary school

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou


Posts: 1479 | Registered: Dec 2011
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, September 30th (Monday)

*****I know I have to divorce him because of what he has done or else lose my self respect****


You don't have to do anything except what is best for you and your baby..ever..

As long as you two talk about things openly and you have the option to ask him questions that is good..Don't allow his A to be rugswept..Clarity will get better in the coming months as life unfolds..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, September 30th (Monday)

Why wasn't my love enough? Why wasn't I enough?

statistic, his cheating had nothing to do with you. People who cheat don't care about anyone or anything but themselves.

People cheat on loving devoted spouses. On the other hand, there are many people in terrible marriages and who don't cheat. Cheating is a decision. Hiding, sneaking around and gaslighting are more decisions and are based on lies.

Don't let him get in your head. You have nothing to do with his choice to cheat and the resulting demise of your M. Have you read the Healing Library here? Read, read, and read some more. It will help give you sanity.

I have to confess I haven't read the entire post, but I wanted to address your initial post.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
RippedSoul
Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, September 30th (Monday)

Statistic, big hugs from me--from all of us. Everyone has given such great advice and it's pretty spot on. The only thing I'd like to do is elaborate on his initial reaction.

The affair fog is powerful in some of these waywards. My SAWH was also monstrous. He's always been broken, but he was a decent human being just the same. During and immediately after the affair, though, he was a complete stranger to me--even after almost 22 years of marriage.

I'm not saying your husband will continue to be cruel, weak, and manipulative. In fact, he sounds like he surfaced enough to give you some of the information you needed. I remember sitting in the rocking chair in our bedroom (the one I nursed all our babies in), him handing me a box of tissues and then sitting on the edge of the bed opposite me while he told me everything. Like most of us here have experienced, it was part devastation, part relief--because I'd thought I was going crazy with my suspicions! It felt good not to just be some stereotypical bat-sh-t crazy jealous wife.

You don't have to make any decisions right now. You have time to repair your psyche by being nice to yourself, by spending time with family members who love and support you, by getting sleep when given a chance, by loving that sweet baby of yours, by reading books about healing, by going to an IC, by taking bubble baths--whatever makes you feel comforted and strengthened.

Your WH may end up being a completely reformed, loving, remorseful husband. He may revert back to the man he was when you first confronted him. You have NO control over that. Those are his choices. All you can do is worry about you and your little one. It's that hard. And that simple.

Eight months have passed now for us. He's done some stupid things, some smart things, some silly things, and some sweet things. I still couldn't tell you what my future holds--and, believe me, I desperately want that crystal ball--but I can say that TODAY he is a good man who is trying. Tomorrow? No clue. Luckily, the general direction has been up. As long as I see that trend, I'm staying.

There has to be some hope mixed into the reality that is now yours/ours. That can be hope for your current marriage or hope for a better life without him. But please stay hopeful. You're a young woman with a beautiful baby girl. Life WILL be happy again even if you can't see it today.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 461 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
Hope2B
Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, September 30th (Monday)

I know I have to divorce him because of what he has done or else lose my self respect.

Please don't make the decision to divorce just yet, especially if he's pulled his head out of his rectal orifice.

My opinion is that your self respect is NOT tied up in your husband's deliberate decisions to behave the way he behaved.

Your reaction to his behavior and then your choices relative to that are linked to your character, your integrity, and are germane to what you will and will not accept from a spouse.

I have a line in the sand, if you will, and my WH crossed it, and now I'm dealing with triggers and fall out and what I will and will not accept as I walk this path.

You've been traumatized by the loss of the "marriage" you believed you had, and the loss of the husband you thought he was, and if he is really on the road to disclosure without defensiveness, without head-games or blaming you or trying to downplay his actions, and if he is capable of showing remorse and contrition etc (keep reading SI for more specifics), then divorce isn't your only option. You *might* still find your way back to one another, but it's going to be a long hard road for both of you.

When there has been a trauma or a loss in our lives, it's often a time to NOT make any life or life changing decisions, unless (for example) staying in a relationship will subject you to abuse, of course.


Me: early 60s
Him: 65 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo or maybe ever 4x/mo

Posts: 359 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

Statistic,

I was married young, for 10 yrs, & first WH cheated on me (no kids yet, I was putting him thru grad school.) That ended that marriage for me.

Now I am in 2nd marriage--almost 25 yrs together, & 4 kids together. I always thought if he cheated, that would be the end of it for me.
But I had no idea how much it changes things to have children together. Now you are not just making a decision for yourself.

For now you can remain in a place of just "not divorcing yet", as long as you think there is a chance for your WH to come out of the Fog & possibly R.
On the other hand, if he becomes a monster again, you can always file for D---it takes awhile & you can stop the process at any time, but it sends a clear message to WH to make that move.
It took awhile for WH # 2 to come out of the Fog ( he would not stop contact with OW), & it took my going to a lawyer for him to finally end it.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

He was fired yesterday and has unraveled. Interestingly, he is not angry at me, but at himself and apologizes every step of the way. He said he is finally getting what he deserves and feels a weight lifted off his back. While I should probably be angry and not talking to him at this time, I grew concerned for his safety and let him come to where I am staying to spend a couple hours with our daughter. I've made it clear that this is not an indication of a R, but out or concern for his well being. He said he understood. He also said that he realizes that I have all the cards and can decide to do whatever I like. He said his job now is to make whatever decision I make as easy for me and the baby as possible. I guess he was desperate to show me this because he took the titles of the cars, transferred them to me, and showed me how to access all our funds as I was never the one to manage finances and didn't even know a password. He said he doesn't mind being a stay at home dad if I would have him.
His honest responses to my questions have caused a lot of pain as there was so much I didn't know. Every minute that passes, I think of another way he betrayed me... They met when I was out of town, they talked about ways to hide it from me, they were having an affair during times she and I interacted at his place of work, while they stopped sleeping together during my pregnancy, they continued to communicate by email behind my back after he promised he would stop.

He keeps saying that all he concludes is that he is an idiot, weak, and thought he would not get caught. He said he hates everything even further because he didn't have feelings for her, but enjoyed the physical intimacy. He said he hates that fact that he is going to lose everything because he messed with a person who is so meaningless to him, she could of been anyone.

The more I find out, the more I hurt, I don't get mad. Will the anger come later? The more I hear, the more questions I have. When is enough, enough? I feel like I need to know all the ways he betrayed me bc I've been out of the loop the entire time and it's time that I'm brought into what was going on behind my back. It's the only way he can be remorseful. He cannot be remorseful for behavior he's not informed me about in my opinion.

How did you decide you knew enough?

I feel better when he is in my company, even though it is only to talk about the affair. I'm in danger of allowing myself to rug sweep in order to alleviate even a tiny bit of my pain. I am instead telling myself I don't need to anything right now, which is good bc I am not even able to do the basics like eat and sleep. I will set up IC today.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 6:47 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

If you thought you felt crazy before - strap in!

It is easier to come to a decision when dealing with a heartless prick...(not that it is any less painful). Now your emotions will really see-saw, (and he may or may not stay this new course only time will tell). Screw what he says - watch now what he does, what actions he takes.

Whatever happens my advice is to keep the focus on you and your daughter. See an atty for a consult and get data: what are you looking at if you choose to D? Best case and worse case scenarios... Gather information so you can make an informed decision.

If R is something you might consider then start a list of what you'd need to pull that off - what he'd have to do or not do - what your ultimate dealbreakers are - and what the consequences are. R is a gift from the BS. You set the rules for any such attempt.

If R is not something you would consider - that is okay!! Adultery itself is a well established dealbreaker. Your WS knew that!!

Either way you will find support here. And you don't have to decide anything today or tomorrow. Just focus on taking care of you and the babe - the basics.

eta: Because my orientation is from a Divorced point of view, I feel compelled to add this thought: Though it may seem a "safe" solution (he can't cheat cause he is home with DD and you'd feel less stressed and suspicious) know that there are plenty of SAH moms and dads on the Wayward side.

If he becomes the stay at home dad for a length of time - and you the major bread winner, and if R doesn't work for any reason whatsoever. You could find yourself in a position where once D'd - you are paying him spousal support and child support.

Finding out "why" he felt entitled to cheat is critical to R, because until he works on that - the reason will still be there lurking.

[This message edited by Take2 at 7:04 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)]


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4133 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

statistic,
He sounds like he is defogging: answering all your Q's, putting the blame where it belongs (himself) and not only telling you PW, but showing you accounts.

At this stage, I would employ Ronald Reagan's tactic: "Trust, but Verify." For a while (months at the minimum) you will need to monitor his behavior, keep looking at phone records, credit cards, check if there are new phones, cards, email accounts, etc. This is to give yourself peace of mind, and to let him know you are not going to put up with any more sh*t.

He could very well just be in shock at his world falling apart, and telling only what he has to tell. Is he NC with the OW? Put a VAR in his car to check who he talks to when he's not with you.

Come up with your conditions for R. Make one of them that he find a job. You must let him know that you have one toe at the door, ready to leave the M at the first hint of infidelity, secrets, or entitlement on his part.

From here on out, begin thinking about things that would be real shockers if you did get D someday, and work on getting your life in a place where it wouldn't be such a shock. That's what I'm slowly working on, even though we are in R. People (my spouse) are unpredictable and can blow one's world up in a few minutes.

Add to your personal R list that: you will never put up with his playing with your mind ever again. I know how it feels, and it is cruel, mocking, and dishonest. When you sense something, and he tries to make you think you are crazy, trust your gut, and tell him to get out of your mind. Stand firm, and make him leave until he is ready to talk about the issue.

t/j but related: My H also played with my mind throughout our entire M. It is his way of avoiding having to look deeply inside himself or his motives and behaviors. Even though he is no longer in an A or looking at porn his reverts back to mind games/belittling me when I notice or am angry about something he doesn't want to face. It makes me angry as all getout, and that is when I want to D and get him out of my life.
end t/j

If you were to D, it wouldn't be the end of the world. You are smart, a good mother, have an adorable daughter to spend your free time with, and hopefully family and friends.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
PeaceLove187
Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

A word of caution about allowing him to be the stay-at-home parent. Affairs are an escape mechanism and his idea of staying at home can also be an attempt to escape. Did he feel a lot of stress at his job? Prior to his first A (the first one I discovered anyway), my H quit his stressful job to operate a home-based business and take care of our daughter. His business was never successful, he felt he got little respect as a stay-at-home father, and he just fell deeper into his pit of depression. Raising a child is an awesome job, but only if you approach it correctly and make an honest effort to be the best stay-at-home parent you can be. Using it to escape work stresses isn't healthy. Has he told you why he wants to stay home instead of finding another sales position?


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 638 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

You know, you should really read up on the 180, not necessarily to implement it on him right now it seems that he is being remorseful. But, just in-case you need to in the future and there are some things on the list that you can do now. This will help you to become stronger. It really helped helped me. I kinda learned who I was again.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

In the case of R, I would not let WH move back in the house and be a stay at home dad without a post nup agreement in place that protects you and your little one..It should stipulate that in the case of D your WH will not ask for alimony or maintenance payable to him to be a part of a D settlement..

People probably wonder why I am so obsessed with post nups..

I don't want anybody to be in the situation that I am in..That of an older lady with a non remorseful WH whom I am unable to boot out of the house or D without facing financial ruin..

If the BS has a remorseful agreeable WS then take advantage of that remorse to protect yourself somehow..Getting a post nup( in the states that recognize one) is more possible or obtainable if there is remorse or feelings of guilt on the part of the WS... Post nup can be one stipulation of R designed help the BS to feel safer going forward in the partnership/marriage..
Going forward in R with a post nup or other protections in place can help eliminate that feeling for the BS that he or she is just an option or fall back plan..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:33 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

(((statistic)))

I like what you are saying about how your H is behaving now. He really was behaving like a cornered animal before. It is an immense improvement that he is taking responsibility for all of this now.

It took most of us months before we felt we knew everything we needed to know; sometimes years. Give yourself time.

It's also completely acceptable to take a break from "affair talk" sometimes; in fact I recommend it. Sometimes it's helpful to schedule time when you will talk about something else and/or schedule time to talk about the affair. It's also natural that you feel better when you are with him. The sad thing is that we need comforting from the one who did the damage to us! It's very confusing.

Also, don't think that if you reconcile it means you have no self-respect. I have immense self-respect and I am happily reconciling. I had demands from my H that he has moved heaven and earth to satisfy. I now have a marriage I never knew was possible.

Give yourself time. Take a break. Be good to yourself. Have your H watch the baby and go for a spa day, a long walk, whatever.

One way or another you will get through this.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1763 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

Why wasn't my love enough? Why wasn't I enough? Why didn't he think about the hurt this would cause

1. You are enough, your love is enough.

This has NOTHING to do about what you were or weren't doing (as hard as that is to understand) but it is about HIM satisfying his selfish needs and choosing to cheat on his wife and his family. His conscious choices. HIM

You did nothing wrong that would ever justifying cheating. NOTHING.

2. He didn't think about the hurt because he was compartmentalizing his behavior and if he thought about the hurt that would make him really see himself as the jackass he was.

This way he can have his cake and eat it too.

Life #1 - Married man, family. Good guy.

Life #2 - Fun, fantasy life based on lies, deceit and selfishness.

It is a coping mechanism that allows them to exist in the twisted lives they've created. Nothing logical or emotionally rationale about it.

I'm sorry. This doesn't help you reconcile his behavior but it is true. You will NEVER understand the why, the how, the how could you. It's unfathomable to those of us who would never cheat. You can't make sense out of nonsense.

You will get better. You will get stronger. A bit each day. You will have good days and you will have terrible days (sorry but you need to know this is normal and actually a part of healing).

Hug that baby and define your boundaries. What you will and won't accept.

Be strong and demand more for yourself and your baby.

Your WH actions will convey if he can handle helping you head (it is a long, hard process) and if he is worthy of your forgiveness.

One day at a time. Good luck and know we are all here.

(((hugs and prayers)))


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Apr 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

How did you all handle working while dealing with the acute aftermath of the affair? I've called in sick twice and cannot pull myself together long enough to be productive. It is taking everything I have to feed and care for my daughter (and I have help!) and take care of everyday necessities. I cannot cope with work at the moment. My job is highly stressful and any distress I show will be clearly visible. In fact, if I am not on my game, I will be asked to take time off.

Also, did you all find yourself in denial at the beginning? I was much more upset before. Now I am numb and not feeling much of anything but some sadness. I'm fighting the urge to rug sweep.

I think there is something wrong with me. I had no idea that I was so codependent until now. Even after all this, I cannot imagine my like without him. I can't keep the bad stuff in my head long enough to get pissed.

I recognize that I don't need to make a decision to divorce. I'm waiting for a number of reasons. One of the major reasons is that I am worried about how the timing of this will overwhelm my husband. He has completely unraveled after coming out of his fog and losing his job. Yes, this is all his fault and I'm only getting small tastes of the pain thanks to denial, but I am worries about his ability to keep himself safe. He has made very concerning statements.

I've allowed him to spend time feeding my daughter or putting her to bed while I or my mom are working on something else just so we could keep an eye on him. He said this is the only thing he does that helps him maintain his sanity. He does not have any social support system besides us as he is not from the U.S.

I meet with a lawyer tomorrow for an initial consultation. On my birthday. I know in my heart that I do not want to divorce, but the nature of the affair and the aftermath makes me think we've reached the point of no return, at least for myself. Too much water under this bridge. I hate that he put me in this horrible position where I must decide.

Thanks again. In ready to delve into the library.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

I wasn't working an outside job, but I was in a rigorous school program. One that had me being reminded of all of the treachery that he had brought down on me (such as -- man, if marriages were under contract or tort law instead of family law, I'd have all sorts of claims against him, etc....). It was really hard to focus.

But I did it, and am STILL doing it. Through sheer force of will, spite, and stubbornness. I consciously decided that he had *taken* enough from me....he wasn't going to *take* that too. I would succeed *in spite* of him and his debauchery.

Your situation is a bit different now, though, since he has lost his job. You probably really NEED to keep your job. So compartmentalize as best as you can. Take it second by second...just get through one minute at a time. Take a couple of days off if you need to. It might also help to share what is going on with someone at work that you trust so that they have a *context* for your behavior and also act as a support for you. A kind word or just a pat on the back or arm.....

Just keep breathing. You'll get through this.

And happy birthday!

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 10:11 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8085 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Celticlass
Member
Member # 39518
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

gonnabe2016 took the words right out of my mouth! So I will second her assessment. The only thing that worked for me was to concentrate 100% on my job while I was there at work. The first few days were really hard, but then it quickly became my salvation. Just having a place where I had to focus on something other than the nightmare that I found myself in was so helpful.

Hang in there--focus on each task and take deep breaths; we are all rooting for you! ((( )))




Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Lone Star State
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

did you all find yourself in denial at the beginning? I was much more upset before...I think there is something wrong with me.

Yes. I think to some degree we all find ourselves in the land of denial. No way can this happen to ME. To US. This is something that happens to OTHER PEOPLE.

You are perfectly normal in feeling whatever it is your are feeling at the time.

You have been just swept up in the tsunami of infidelity. Every emotion possible will inflict itself on you. All the ugly debris will swirl around. It's one hellava storm but you can survive. You will survive because you and your daughter are MORE than their lies and betrayal.

It is hard to concentrate at work but it also provides a much need break from trying to figure all this out and thinking about the affair constantly. It provides you with an outlet and a break.

Do your best. Give what you can and try to allow yourself to gain your footing in your professional life.

Your personal life will take some time. And hard work.

Deep breaths. One step at a time.

If you WH is making comments about hurting himself then he needs IC immediately. And he should not be left alone with your daughter. This can be a cry for help and also an act of manipulation to pull the focus off the affair. Just be mindful.

We are all here. You will be okay, you will.

Many hugs and prayers.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Apr 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Do any of you have concrete tips for helping take the edge off the pain that you found effective? Was it distraction? Therapy? Medication?

How did you make the decision to R or divorce? Even after all he has done, I'm terrified of divorcing him and being alone, without him. It is especially hard to think about divorce when he is so apologetic and promising the sun and the moon. The only time My pain ceases for a second is when he contacts me. I apologize if I say the same things again and again.

I started therapy today and saw a lawyer.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Jesss
Member
Member # 40333
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Statistic, I feel and wonder the exact same things you're asking about... So I hope some ppl can give some advice and answers.
My WH is also being so apologetic and sweet right now. And even though when I first found out (4 weeks ago) I was sure i wanted to divorce him, I really don't want that anymore, i keep thinking, what if he is being sincere and will be the husband he is promising he'll be. At the same time, unless I'm with him or talking to him, I don't believe him and I feel so angry.
Sounds like you're feeling the same way... Just wanted you to know, I k know what you're feeling and am following your thread for some answers too.


BS: 31, WS: 35
4 kids between 2 and 7yrs old
DDAY 1: July 2013
DDAY 2: Sept 2013
DDAY 3: Oct 2013
DDAY 4: Feb 2014

Posts: 108 | Registered: Aug 2013
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

For me, walking my dogs and fighting to start enjoying my hobbies were both really helpful. I also started exercising more and found the physical activity to be helpful. I tried antidepressants but I reacted horribly to them and had to stop taking them.

I decided to divorce because after four months of absolute cruelty, of treating my like I was a yoyo (albeit with less humanity than one), I had had enough pain. I still loved her with all of my heart. I still wanted our life back. I still didn't want to be alone. I just had enough and couldn't hold onto false hope any longer.


Posts: 1736 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Distraction, therapy and meds or any combination is good...

Meds can help to take the edge off of the pain and you might find that the right antidepressant med for you ( one that works well with your body) increases your energy levels a little bit..

Therapy is a good place to vent if you have a therapist who you like going to..

Distractions are great!

For me distraction is the best tool I have going for me for taking the edge off of pain and depression....

My doggies are the sweetest most lovable funny awesome companions and they provide distraction and exercise :-)

Hanging out with my sister is something I look forward to for weeks..She moved out of town recently, but for the time being she will come in to town once a month to lead a workshop for her job..

My photography work..Shooting and editing photos distracts me enough that I sometimes forget that I need to take a meal or a bathroom break, lol

In time you will get to the point of knowing what you want to do whether it be R or divorce..

The ABILITY to carry out whatever decision you make may become the obstacle or problem to deal with as time goes by..

In the meantime, during this time of limbo that you are going thru, I would take measures to protect yourself and your child by doing the following...

Widen your social network so that you have plenty of support from family, friends who are there for you whether you R or D..

Protect your financials and separate you accounts(banking, credit) from your WH's..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:09 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

I offered mc, but he said no. He said his affair partner and her husband were in counseling and look what good it did them. He said he will not run circles around me to fix it. I can file for divorce if I like.

My problem is that I assume people will behave in a certain and when they do not I am truly perplexed and paralyzed by the shock. I expected him to jump at the chance for counseling bc it meant I was willing to consider working on things. When he says no and instead gets defensive, my whole world goes to pieces and I want to reason with him because I want him to understand what we are losing and help him understand than right way to handle this. I know I am in the wrong. It's futile. But it is killing me and I want it to stop.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

By refusing counseling, he is still trying to control the situation. What happened to "I'll do whatever it takes to keep you"? That lasted 4 WHOLE days.

Take control of your life and do what you need to do. He can step up-or not. That's on him.

I found that Ativan and Anti-depressants took the edge off the pain, but it also dulled my mind. I didn't feel as though I were totally engaged with my life when I was on them.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7769 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

I don't get how you think you are in the wrong..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

If I were you, I would definitely work on finding a lawyer you like immediately..

Do you like the lawyer you visited with today?

Once you find the lawyer, see what you can do to legally protect yourself and kiddo in the best ways possible..

Your WH is only thinking of/ looking after himself...
The statement your WH made about not being willing to run in circles shows his lack of remorse and fogginess...

My WH made similar such remarks that showed his lack of respect and remorse for the damage he did in our M..His comments made were along these lines, "Haven't I done enough here to show you I'm sorry?" "I am not gonna kiss your ass for the rest of my life"... etc, etc..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:27 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

I feel like I am wrong because I expect the world to work a certain way- men don't cheat on their wives, and when they do, they busy their asses to make amends, etc. but this has not been my experience and I am stuck trying to show him how he should be responding to work this out. He doesn't want to talk saying he is tired (last night) or driving to work (this morning). As horrible as he is, I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE HIM. But he is making it impossible to keep him. Me not wanting to lose him speaks volumes of my own self esteem and dependency, and less about him.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
strongerdaybyday
Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

(((statistic)))

3 months ago I was where you are. I wanted to die. I was terrified to piss of H for fear he'd go back to her. But you know what? 3 months later, my days aren't all sunshine, but, I feel better. My H has begged for ME to stay and regrets his affair. You are not the problem, you never were. It was all about him. The good people on the SI message boards have helped me to understand that affairs are selfish...and, has nothing to do with the BS. You will be okay. You'll have your moments that will trigger intense feelings (sadness, anger) but these feelings will pass and become less frequent.

I cannot tolerate knowing he held, kissed, and slept with another woman, not one considering what we would lose for his brief moments of pleasure. Thinking of the two of them together makes me sick but the image pops into my head. How could he enjoy involving himself in such destructive behavior. Why wasn't my love enough? Why wasn't I enough?

Exactly what repeated in mind everyday for over a month after his affair. BUT, I'm slowly recovering. You will be okay. You may not feel like it now, but, you will be.

Also, my husband also let me feel crazy, I would ask him, who is she? who's got you acting like this? and he would treat me like I was nuts. I know I'm rambling a bit...all this to say; you aren't alone, we've been there and we're here to help you with advice, venting etc. and, when you're ready read the healing library, post as much as you need and, if you can, getting counselling can help work through the emotions.

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 9:26 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 384 | Registered: Aug 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Ahh, I see what you are saying...After you got the negative response from your WH about counseling,I thought maybe you were saying that you felt like you shouldn't have asked him to get counseling in the first place...

I think you are doing the right thing, requiring counseling(IC) as a condition for R


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
hopingforhappy
Member
Member # 29288
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

In order for MC to work, you have to be in the right state of mind for it. OW and her H were in MC, but it didn't work because she was having an A! She was not focused on the M and making her relationship with her BH work. You would be wasting your time too. Your WH needs IC first to work out his own problems. Then (if he is lucky) consider MC. The way he is acting, you may not be around when he finally pulls his head out of his a**.

You are still in the very early days. You get IC for yourself, you consult with a lawyer (file if you need to), 180 him and take care of yourself. Stop offering him stuff. He doesn't want to talk? Fine--that works really well with the 180. I know this is incredibly hard, but it will make you feel better. Detach from him and give yourself some perspective. I can tell that you are a strong, smart woman. You can do this!


Me--BW (56)
Him--FWH (53)--5yr. LTA--OW probably BPD
Married 20 years
DS-18, DD-15
Reconciling--but boy is it hard!

Posts: 1334 | Registered: Aug 2010
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

But he is making it impossible to keep him. Me not wanting to lose him speaks volumes of my own self esteem and dependency, and less about him.

This is a great step forward. This is a step you can make to help yourself get emotionally stronger and healthier.

Having the rug pulled out from under you is scary. You had no voice or choice in this. He turned your world upside down and now you get to deal with the new reality.

I bet if you examine the past you will find definite red flags that were ignored. I know I did. Those were also clues to areas in myself I needed to work on.

It is encouraging to see you dealing with reality. Proceed with the lawyers. Find a shark.....since he is used to you bending over backwards for him, he will expect to be able to bully you now. Visit many lawyers...side benefit he can't use them once you see them.

This will get better and the feelings will settle down....it just takes time.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2711 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongerdaybyday
Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Me not wanting to lose him speaks volumes of my own self esteem and dependency, and less about him.

how i felt too...but this will also pass. there are days when I want to ring his phone off the hook until he answers (we've separated and he's living alone) my mind races wondering where he is. and then I take a step back, distract myself and let the feeling pass. Eventually, you will realize you don't need him. And really you shouldn't NEED to be with him, you should WANT to be with him. I didn't understand the difference until IC pointed it out. I was wondering, if he won't do MC, will you do IC. It may make a world of difference.


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 384 | Registered: Aug 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Thank you. I fight the same urge and wonder why he doesn't seem to be rushing to call me all the time.

Today's been rough day. I can't seem to get out of bed. On a positive note, he said he would go to MC. Still, he vacillated between remorseful husband to cages and frightened animal.

Have any of you decided not to reconcile, but to just divorce? I wonder if the offense is just to much to overcome. In my case, he stopped sleeping with the ow before he found out I was pregnant bc he and the ow were afraid of losing their families and thought they pushed their luck too far. I found out soon after of their "emotional affair" and husband agreed to stop. Then ilI find out I was pregnant. He still kept in contact with her behind my back. It makes me think he loved her or had feelings so strong he did not want to let go. How can I stay with a man who had feelings for someone else while his wife is carrying his child? He said he was only in it for the sex, but if it were, why did he continue to talk to her?? I cannot wrap my brain around it. I don't want to believe it.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

He said he will not run circles around me to fix it. I can file for divorce if I like.

He broke it, but won't work to fix it AND you are supposed to be the one to do the work to get a divorce?

Harumpf!!!!

ETA: It takes two to reconcile. You don't have that! Neither did I and I've wasted over 5 1/2 years because of it!

[This message edited by alphakitte at 9:30 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 1:12 AM, October 4th (Friday)

Yes, he said that after losing his job. Now he is singing a different toon. Did the rest of your struggle with a husband that went in and out of the fog? I've gone no contact with him.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, October 4th (Friday)

Looking back, I don't think my WH floated in and out of any "fog".

I think, in his case, he has been used to being able to talk his way out of anything and his comments, like your Wh's comments about doing ANYTHING to make this right, it is just words. Words spoken in the hope it will be enough to have things "the way it was" before we became aware of their betrayals.

In time, you may become aware of more laziness on his part. If you are prone to examining the past you may become aware of who really carried the water in your R, and in your lives.

The best thing you can do for yourself, and your baby, is nurture yourself. Don't struggle and ruminate with him, it will only disturb your personal peace and thwart your understanding.

It will feel very dark, for a while. Know that. There is no getting around moving through the darkness to move into the light. Everytime you make a detour, back into the struggle and darkness, will stall your journey into the light.

ETA: typo

An unremorseful spouse can not assist your healing.

[This message edited by alphakitte at 7:08 AM, October 4th (Friday)]


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, October 4th (Friday)

Stat - I just read through this thread, and as a Vet I just want to say that seeing this from that point of view, your H is doing the minimum to convince you to not D. If you don't force him to make changes and address the issues at hand he will continue to mistreat you emotionally, and most likely will go right back to cheating.

He is NOT remorseful, he is just wanting to maintain the status quo, a truly remorseful spouse does anything and everything they need to to help the BS.

Stay 180, see an attorney, and rely on family and friends for love and support. You also need to get some IC so that you figure out that you will be just fine being independent and on your own.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
momoftana
Member
Member # 17383
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, October 4th (Friday)

He said he will not run circles around me to fix it. I can file for divorce if I like.

Oh fuck him! He should be standing on his head shitting nickles while whistling Dixie.

HE did this, HE can either do ALL the work to attempt to repair it, or HE can kick rocks.

Your daughter desperately needs a mother right now. Quit wasting precious energy engaging with that cocksucking motherfucker.

HE put your and your daughter's lives at risk with his behavior. Think about that for a second. If you found him with a gun to her head, how sorry would you feel for him then?

Get mad honey, I mean like go-to-jail mad, throw down in the parking lot of Walmart like white trash mad. It will serve you well.


Posts: 170 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: florida
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, October 4th (Friday)

He.risked.his.marriage.
He. risked.your.health.
He.risked.his.daughter's.health.
He.risked.his.job.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, October 4th (Friday)

I hear what you all are saying. Your objectivity keeps me focused. My mind is in agreement, it's just taking my heart time to catch up. Every part of me feels so raw, that I think I'm letting the full truth of his actions sink in bit by bit because I cannot handle it all at once. Perhaps once it sinks in, I'll get angry like I need to in order to propel myself forward. His actions just break up all the basic assumptions I've carried around my entire life about love, respect, honesty, and my assumptions about him. It is hard for me to make all these adjustments right away, which is probably why I invest so much energy trying to understand. I don't want my the beliefs I've held my entire life about the way the world should work and how people should treat each other to be shattered. I know when the shock and denial wears off, my basic assumptions will need to change.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
momoftana
Member
Member # 17383
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, October 4th (Friday)

I don't want my the beliefs I've held my entire life about the way the world should work and how people should treat each other to be shattered.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your beliefs. People should treat each other with decency and respect. The problem with douchebags is they don't share your beliefs. It doesn't matter what he has "said" he believes. What are his actions telling you?


Posts: 170 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: florida
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, October 4th (Friday)

I think he is on as much of a roller coaster as you are. Considering the chaos that is ensuing, it's not surprising that you are both all over the map.

Just breathe - you do not have to make a decision now.

As far as coping, just be patient, it will get easier as time goes by. What I did was force myself to focus. When I would feel really down, start thinking about horrible things, I would force myself to stop it and think about something else. If I was in my living room I would literally stop everying and focus on what was right in front of my face, the couch, the coffee table, etc. Look out the window and really look. See the trees with their leaves off and what a pretty sight they were. I know it all seems overwhelming, but you do have some control/power over your day. Take the control back. I think if you can accomplish "acceptance" you are halfway there. Of course it sucks, things are a mess, but ok, accept they are a mess and focus on what you are going to do to move forward.

We can tell you a million times that it will get better, you will focus at work, you will find peace. But for you, all you feel is misery right now - it's hard to hear those messages and believe them, but try.


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8111 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, October 4th (Friday)

What momaofana said..When and if I ever get in another argument with my WH about whether or not he was remorseful n the aftermath of his A, I will use her analogy..I might substitute watermelons for the nickels, lol..Perfect analogy for what the remorseful person should be willing to do to fix things after major betrayal..

I need to take my own advice but here goes..

I hope I don't come off as preaching or rambling..

I am hoping that what you are experiencing with your WH is the worst and last betrayal of this magnitude that you will ever experience for the rest of your life..I have this hope for all of us and myself also...

I have learned that people, even our loved ones, can be counted on to do the unexpected...Some of the things people say and do will be shitty..Once I begin to expect the world to behave a certain way the rug always gets pulled out from under my feet..I have a trusting nature and I will keep my trust in a person unless and until her or she betrays that trust or gives me a reason to be wary..

I guess what I am saying is that it is essential for one to have faith in HIM/HERSELF that he or she will weather any storm in the best way possible..Prayer
counseling, education, skills, hobbies, etc,etc can give us the tools to nurture ourselves thru the worst of experiences..

Most people do want to help other people and be good people..With that being said there are some sick, rotten and broken people out there..At the very least, our WH's are broken..

It is up to us to ask for help when we need it.. We are good at nurturing other people.. It is time we learn to nurture and put a little more focus on ourselves..It is a process and a journey to gather up the strength and the tools, to gain faith in ourselves..This faith is necessary to deal with whatever the world dishes out at us..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
undonelife
Member
Member # 38421
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, October 4th (Friday)

Honey -- it was him that risk his job. HE did that. You have nothing to do with him losing his job if you tell or if someone finds out. He should have thought of that before he cheated. My fWH did the same thing!


Me: BS 53 Him: WH 51
M: 28 years
DDay 11/25/12 TT 9/9/13
OW:20 yrs younger McOW
Kids: 2 teens

Posts: 188 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Dark Hell
Lolati11
Member
Member # 34915
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, October 4th (Friday)

"statistic" ITs an emotional Ride ....I went through the same ups and downs and total numbness .Hang in there you don't have to make any major decisions .I opted for R and its still going strong ....This is coming from someone that alwasy said I will not put up with infidelity . Focus on you ..right now you are scared beleive me you will go through all kind of emotion including anger .Regarding your work Please just take deep breaths .I did take a week off and when I went back I plunged myself in all kind of projects !! they kept my mind off I am not sure if you can do that .Just take it easy you don't have to make a dicision right now or anytime in the near future .When you make a dicision you will have a clear mind and you will know what you really want !! hang in there


Me:34
Him: 51
OW: a monster that I called friend before
D-Day:June 20,2011


You made a fool out of me and she made a fool out of you


Posts: 141 | Registered: Feb 2012
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, October 4th (Friday)

Thank you. I wish I could repay you all for your time and advice.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, October 4th (Friday)

((((statistic)))))


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1061 | Registered: Aug 2012
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, October 4th (Friday)

Is he still living out of the house? I'm not entirely sure, but if he isn't and it's viable for you too, see if you can get him out.

I would also be changing the passwords to all of those financial things he gave you.

Did you see the lawyer? If not go now.

I just had my DDAY anniversary, the first one. I was really upset it was when my life fell apart in many ways not just the infidelity.

DDAY two (which is in a couple of days) I made a series of choices to get my life back together (without SI). Now I am looking upon this day with a smile, because I made so many good choices that day, I can say to myself "fuck it, I still did well".

You need to take a day off work and make a series of GOOD CHOICES, you don't need a family member to hold your hand. Infact I would recommend against it because you need to prove to yourself you are independent. It's going to be a hard day (definitely) but I want you in a year's time to look back on that day with pride. For me this dday that's coming up I didn't realise how many choices I made that were good, I just jumped out of bed and did them.

You can jump out of bed and make good choices too. Allocate a day, change the passwords to the financial aspects, book a lawyer's appt, try and kick him out, and whatever else you need to do.

Then do something nice for yourself, I was really broke so I just brought some chocolate. It was pretty fucking good


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, October 5th (Saturday)

Thank you Lauren123. I took your advice and made good decisions today. Ones that involved only myself, my daughter, family and friends. I hope I can keep it up.

I was also surprised to read posts from others... They all sound like mine. There is nothing special or unique or better/worse about what my husband did. He betrayed me, pure and simple.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Offhispedestal
Member
Member # 32528
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, October 7th (Monday)

Statistic, I rarely post on Just found out forum anymore.
All the nasty and cruel things he said to you were out of pure panic and to try to control you. Making you feel that if you told his job that you were ruining any chances of R??
All the same crap my H told me.
Then the shit hits the fan and they are left alone. My H did all the same things.... He was ashamed and said he would do whatever I wanted. Saying that he knew he screwed up the most precious thing he ever had in his life and he was ready for any consequences including death. He even told me several times he wished for death for hurting me. Within a few weeks MOW's H and myself
thought the the A was over and done...
WRONG. He ended up taking underground. Then he slowly would start to get defensive, telling me " you see this is why this wont work between us! You need to let it go, I'm not with that lying bitch anymore!"
But he was... Not every single WS restarts the A again. But many do.
I had your same attitude. I loved him more than he deserved. I tried to be perfect. I tried playing nice, being his friend. Until I said no more and decided I was selling off everything I could and move with our youngest daughter. I put my trust in God and got counseling. I was destroyed, I wanted to die everyday for months. I lost a crazy amount of weight in2 months, tons of hair fell out, I had to take a few sleeping pills each night.
I cried myself to sleep for months because we had NEVER slept apart in 20 yrs. And there I was I a kingsize bed curled up a mess.
Today we are in true R. The remorse hit him like a bomb once he was away from MOW for like 4-6 months of NC. I still struggle with all the mean things he said and did. I found way too much evidence, videos of her naked, pictures galore, caught them once, texts, stains on clothes....

Today he's 200% transparent. It took
God, patience and doing the 180.
There is awesome advice here.
Remember ONE THING. Engrave this in your brain. There is no more taking his word for it. Actions,actions ...actions is what you need to go by.
It doesn't matter if he has an alibi.
If he gets upset because now that he's being honest you doubt him?
He lost that and it will take as long as it takes to get it back. Trust can return but you will never be blind again. There are great people here who understand.

((Hugs))


ME-44
WH-45
Married 24


2Beautiful daughters
DD 6/26/10 (he broke down & confessed)
DD#2 3/14/11 H in OW's car
TT 7/1/11 (NC broken, through emails)

In R


Posts: 639 | Registered: Jun 2011
woundedby2
Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, October 7th (Monday)

Statistic, I'm glad to read you made good decisions for yourself and your daughter today. You are gaining perspective and getting stronger emotionally.

Focusing on you and your baby are what you need to do right now.

This, from momoftana,

He should be standing on his head shitting nickles while whistling Dixie.

is so true, funny-as-hell, and is going in the quote thread.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7824 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

What type of behavior should I expect to see of someone that is truly remorseful. I understand the need to focus on his behavior and not his words. How did you all know your spouses were truly remorseful?

So far, he sounds remorseful but goes back and forth on mc depending on wether or not he is angry. He continues to inflame our conversations by bringing up his paranoid beliefs that I want to tell everyone in the whole world and ruin him.

I'm in individual counseling. I'm not making any movement. Have any of you decided to divorce instead of reconcile? How has it been since?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
hopingforhappy
Member
Member # 29288
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Here is the thing--as long as he is telling you that you will be ruining his life if you tell everybody, he is not owning his stuff. You will not be doing anything but telling the truth. He needs to be prepared for you to tell anybody and to suck it up and deal with the consequences. HE DID THIS. He cannot ask you to cover up for him.

Now, there are perfectly good reasons for you to limit the number of people that you tell. If you do R, it can make it easier with family and friends. On the other hand, you may need the support of these people. You need to make that call. What your WH needs to do is understand and support your decision, whatever you decide. He needs to understand that your decision is not made to "punish" him, but to promote your healing.

Until he is ready to own his behavior and deal with the consequences and not put any part of this on you, he is not ready to R.


Me--BW (56)
Him--FWH (53)--5yr. LTA--OW probably BPD
Married 20 years
DS-18, DD-15
Reconciling--but boy is it hard!

Posts: 1334 | Registered: Aug 2010
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

I find myself in less emotional turmoil than I was when I first found out and it's been just over 2 weeks. I wonder if I am numb or in disbelief. Did any of you struggle with this? I don't want to stay this way because I not want to run away from my problems, rug sweep, or only postpone the necessary grieving process.

It may also be the fact that he is acting more like the person I thought he was. Still, all in all, I don't feel as intense emotions right now and it's weird given the turmoil I was in just recently. Did you all go through stages where you didn't feel as intense about the affair as before? Of course it is uncomfortable to think about, but it doesn't floor me like it did just a week ago.

Also, how many details about the affair did you all find helpful for your own recovery? Did you need specifics about the affair? Or was knowing that it was a PA all you needed to know. I find myself wanting to know how they made plans and his things from me. I want to know how close they were to one another and what he saw in her. When did you have enough info? How did you know?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Offhispedestal
Member
Member # 32528
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

Signs of remorse from. My WS:

: he stopped going back and forth with defensiveness then sorry

: he cried A Lot/ he would go over the story and keep saying " why did I risk losing the best thing in my life?

: he calmly gave me access to all his accounts/passwords, deleted people off FB.

: quit hanging out totally

: quit the gym, where he met her
( this was huge to me because he absolutely loved to work out most of his life!)but he didnt miss the gym anymore and quit working out until now. We workout together now.

:called me through out the day to see how I was feeling. Sent lots of texts during the day, sending quotes..apologizing

: avoids as many triggers as he can for me

: has made me his main priority

: he apologized to my family, his family and friends ALL INDIVIDUALLY. I didn't demand this but he ultimately felt that everyone deserved an apology because he hurt so many people and if he wanted R then he had to so this.

:he started visiting church with me searched and found a men's group at our church that helps him tremendously.

: he has felt the need to talk to people he knows that are having an A and shares his story

: he calls me as soon a he leaves work and we talk until he gets here. If he's running late at work he ALWAYS calls me from work to let me know

The most important thing that he has done this on his own. I feel he understands just how much he destroyed my heart and trust.

But in the first months I to R he acted a lot like your H. Same comments and all. It's like they have a few moments where they feel how fucked up they are and feel guilt...but then switch back to douchebag mode. Either road you choose will be difficult but you will end it in a better place



ME-44
WH-45
Married 24


2Beautiful daughters
DD 6/26/10 (he broke down & confessed)
DD#2 3/14/11 H in OW's car
TT 7/1/11 (NC broken, through emails)

In R


Posts: 639 | Registered: Jun 2011
LeopoldB
Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

statistic,

I am so sorry you are in a circumstance that you do not deserve. This will sound crass, but your H only cares about himself. His interest in you and your child only extends as far as his precious reputation. I do not suggest this lightly, but he deserves a far more extreme outcome than what I can post here... with the support of your friends, family, and a good attorney, you should take him for everything he has and not look back. Cut him off at the knees (or slightly higher). Do it for yourself and your child. If, at a later date, he proves to be a better man than he has demonstrated so far, you can consider a new relationship with him on your own terms. Unfortunately, my guess is that you have not yet seen the worst side of him.


Posts: 212 | Registered: Sep 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Your suggestions are not crass at all. I feel the same way during my angrier moments. The problem I have is that I am not angry. I've never been an angry person. I've seen angry propel people forward and I wish I could hold onto some.

Instead, I am sad and anxious. I am even preoccupied with his well being! After all he has done, I do not want to hurt him because that is not who I am. I feel bad for him and some of the things that have happened since the fallout... Losing job, friends, his parents deciding not to visit.

He is currently very remorseful and doing all the right things. I honestly don't want to hurt him by divorcing him even though I do not see myself forgiving him. He will be alone. This is crazy, I realize that, but this is who I am as a person and probably why he strayed in the first place. He knows his well being is paramount and I will do anything to care for him, just as I've done with friends and family whom I hold dear.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Also, how many details did you need to gather about the affair? I want to know as much as possible because I'm tired of others knowing more about the state of my marriage than I. Plus, I feel like certain details make the offense even worse and I want him to hold himself accountable and not hide anything from me anymore in order to cover his own behind. Which details where important to you? When did you realize you know enough?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Dagny07
Member
Member # 16928
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Don't wait for him to go willingly to MC. Start IC for yourself. You need someone in your corner who is there for YOU. I saw an IC for about 2 years after DD and it was the best thing I ever did for myself.


Me:BW Him: FWH E/A
M: 29 years, together 36 : both guilty of PAs 20+ years ago
CDay#1 Oct 06 (false); DDay#2 Oct 07 (truth from OW's BH)
R: Tenaciously optimistic

Posts: 835 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Stat -
I see you trying to make this all alright, and overlooking your own needs, and self-respect to get there. This is unhealthy.

YOU said:
"He is currently very remorseful and doing all the right things. I honestly don't want to hurt him by divorcing him even though I do not see myself forgiving him. He will be alone. This is crazy, I realize that, but this is who I am as a person and probably why he strayed in the first place. He knows his well being is paramount and I will do anything to care for him, just as I've done with friends and family whom I hold dear. "

Seriously? You are taking the blame for his cheating? You say because you loved him too much he chose to cheat? Honey YOU had ZERO to do with that choice. That is all about him and his brokenness. The sooner you hand that responsiblity over to him the sooner he will start to own it. There is something fundamentally broken in him. YOU CAN NOT FIX IT. He has to do that.

Real remorse? You are seeing that? Can you talk about his A without fear of him getting angry? Can you demand certain things of him, and get it? Like MC, has he agreed to that? Has he done anything about setting that up, or even IC for himself? True remorse is much different than I'm sorry about this mess.

I know it's a very difficult time, and my post DDay was similar to yours, in the fact that H lost his job (not A related) and was broken and depressed, and I did worry about him doing something stupid to himself. However I still didn't get into real R until I finally had enough of disrespect, and demanded he move out, and handed him my ring.

I'm a giver, I was horribly codependent, and I see that in you as well, you want to give, you want to make it all better, but you can't. This is on him, and that may be why you don't feel anger, and why you feel anxious, because on some deep level you know that you cannot make this better. That is on him.

Have you set your ground rules for R? Has he started any of the work for R? If not, then you need to make some demands. It's time to start to get the love and respect you deserve.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Seriously? You are taking the blame for his cheating? You say because you loved him too much he chose to cheat?

I guess I get the sense from family and friends and pretty much everything I read that people stray when the marriage is in trouble and since I am one-half of the marriage, it is partially my fault for not making it a place he wanted to stay. I a sure I did not compliment him more, improve our communication, etc. I am sure these are all things he received from the OW. It is a two way street as he didn't do anything to address these issues either...not that I knew we had issues! All in all, I just dont want to think about him in this way. This is not the man I know. He is not the man I married.

Real remorse? You are seeing that? Can you talk about his A without fear of him getting angry? Can you demand certain things of him, and get it? Like MC, has he agreed to that? Has he done anything about setting that up, or even IC for himself?

He apologizes and agreed to MC. I made the appt and we attend tomorrow. I wanted him to quit his job because there is a good chance the OW will be around, but he won't hear about it and says he will quit once he finds something else first. No, I cannot ask him questions without fear of him getting angry. He says that the answers to my questions will only hurt me more.

I'm a giver, I was horribly codependent, and I see that in you as well, you want to give, you want to make it all better, but you can't.

Yes, I've learned this about myself as well since the affair came to light. I have no idea how to stand on my own. You are absolutely right when you said am anxious, not angry because I cannot fix this.


Have you set your ground rules for R? Has he started any of the work for R?

I moved out of our home. The baby and I are living with my parents. The only demands I have placed include no contact with the OW and MC. I also asked him to talk to my family and his own to explain what is going on. He did speak to both sets of parents and siblings. I am hoping the counselor will help him see that he needs to answer my questions honestly. I am actually nervous that he will walk out.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, and dig a little deeper.

I think he is doing the minimum that he can to keep the M going. True remorse is not met with anger from the WS. They are often overwhlemed with what they have done, but they are truly sorry for their actions, and do not meet questions with anger, rather understanding, honesty and truthful answers.

Actions are what show someone gets it. He doesn't get it yet, and you won't be able to make him get it, all you can do is protect yourself and your baby, and demand the respect you deserve, he will either man up, and start the real work of R, or he won't, and that is truly a gift, because life is short, and shouldn't be wasted on someone who treats you as a choice, or second place.

You should be put on a pedestal and treated like the queen you are, and until you demand it, you will not get it, you will get this vague, just enough to keep you hanging on, sick in the gut feeling, work of false R.

It it probably time for you to really seriously put together your full demands for R. And if NC is an absolute (and it should be) he needs to be actively seeking employment elsewhere, and offering you proof daily of this.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

We had our first marriage counseling session and it went well. The counselor is experienced and really holds my WS feet to the flames. I'm in MC because I am in limbo about S,R, or D. Intellectually, I think to myself that he betrayed me, broke our vows, so infidelity equals divorce. The therapists made a point to say that an affair is a symptom of a troubled marriage. I resent that idea a little because I was in the same marriage and did not think about straying. Perhaps I'm not ready to take responsibility for what I did or did not do to improve our marriage.

I posts several times about his horrendous behavior after I found out. He is now doing everything I ask... Taking initiative and going to IC, answering my questions, etc. He says he is sorry and afraid of a future without me and his daughter. He is not from the US so he will be truly alone.

I just can't get these images out of my head. I get sick at the idea that he obtained so much pleasure engaging in acts that destroyed our marriage and my heart. It cuts really deep to know that he made someone else feel good when it should have been me. The MC believes I am only harming myself with these thoughts. I am having trouble convincing myself that he deserves for me to put in the work it would take to R the right way. I'm bitter, angry, and tired. I wish I knew this would not happen again.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

((statistic)))

I don't know that I like what the MC is saying. It is well known (and confirmed in Not Just Friends) that many men in happy marriages stray. For the MC to say that right off the bat disturbs me. My H will be the first to say that he was happily married and I was an excellent wife, and the A was a symptom of a troubled MAN. Plus it is often the case that the one who is giving LESS in the marriage is the one who strays. Don't let this MC place blame where it doesn't belong. The A is not your fault! There is always a different option if someone is having problems in their marriage.

And to also say that you are harming yourself by having these thoughts; well how can you not at this stage?! That is completely normal and something we all have suffered through. Would that we could just follow our MC's advice and banish the mind movies! Thanks a lot!

I would be careful with this MC.

eta; not to say that we can't all look at what we contribute to our marriages; just that marital problems can not be used to justify an affair. And again, an A is not always a result of an unhappy or troubled marriage; that is oversimplification.

[This message edited by catlover50 at 5:41 PM, October 17th (Thursday)]



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1763 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, October 18th (Friday)

Seet Jesus this pisses me off
" The therapists made a point to say that an affair is a symptom of a troubled marriage. I resent that idea a little because I was in the same marriage and did not think about straying. Perhaps I'm not ready to take responsibility for what I did or did not do to improve our marriage. "

YOUR MARRIAGE GOOD OR BAD HAS ZERO TO DO WITH HIS DECISION TO CHEAT, LIE, AND CONTINUALLY BREAK VOWS, DISRESPECT,AND BE A GENERAL SLIME BALL.

Please for the love of all that's holy don't fall for that.

THIS is about him.
I'm glad to hear he is in IC, and doing some of the work. Now if he can start treating you right, and not be resentful, or get angy, and support you emotionally as you move forward you may very well be able to R.

R or D shouldn't be based on he cheated I need to D. It should be based on his reaction to finding out about his cheating, and if he truly owns what he did as being all him. Until he does that, you won't R. At least not happily and successfully.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, October 18th (Friday)

Thanks tushnurse and cat. It feels like pouring salt on a wound when I begin to think about what I could of done to contribute to his straying. I'm worried that this type of MC will take the emphasis away from working on him.. The one who cheated. My WH did say to the therapist that this is in no way my wife's fault no matter how bad the marriage.

You said something that resonated with me. Right now, I am very much at the place where infidelity = divorce, end of story. While he is showing signs of true remorse and doing all that I ask right now, I'm not sure that his past actions make him deserving of an R and all the work and sacrifice I have to also contribute to make this marriage work.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
loveisareddress
Member
Member # 36474
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, October 18th (Friday)

My M sucks like a giant gaping chest wound at times.

But cheating has never been an option.

So what if nobody found out about it?

I would know and even though I put up with a lot of abuse from my S over the years, I still have enough self respect not to go down that road.

Maybe you need a new counselour.


Scorched earth-Like Peter the Great, he burns up his own territory in order to gain the upper hand while his own people suffer.

I don't need you to be happy. I just need you to leave me alone when I am.


Posts: 442 | Registered: Aug 2012
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I spoke too soon. Numbness is gone. I'm angry that he made time for her. I can't help but draw parallels. He had time last summer to meet with her during the muddle of the work day. But this year, he couldn't miss work to go to my obstetrician appts or my daughters pediatrician appts. He is extremely tight about money, but didn't mind spending money on hotel rooms.
Now he is in IC and MC and wants to to whatever it takes, I think, to make things work. How on earth can I even consider this after all he has done? A full year of gas lighting, horrendous arguments all while I'm expecting our first child bc I kept bringing up the issue bc I knew something was wrong. He said he couldn't tell me bc he was afraid the strain of the truth would cause me to lose the baby or I would leave him. I had two miscarriages beforehand. If he can do this to me and I'm too paralyzed to leave, he can walk all over me like th doormat I've become.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Stop that way of thinking right now. You were a doormat. You get to make the rules of R and you get to decide if that works or not. If it doesn't it's ok too.

You are in no way obligated to continue this path. You know when things really changed for us ? When I decided enough. I was no longer going to be the doormat. I deserved more and I was going to demand it and if H couldn't give it then he needed to go. That was what made all the difference. That was when he realized I was strong and capable and preferred to be alone rather than abused and that was when his fog cleared and real R began.

(((( and strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Thanks Tushnurse. I'm glad to hear it worked so well for you and that you were so strong. I've tried to be strong but waver in my attempts. He is doing some of the things I ask, but only after lots of "coaching" and begging and pleading on my part. I hate the feeling that I'm working harder at this than he is and I'm holding him by the hand when he should be doing it for me. For some reason, I feel that "if he only knew to do A, B, and C, he would do it and things would be better" but that's proving to be overly optimistic. Now he is complaining that I'm not giving him any "chances" to solve things or spend time together bc I moved out. Yes I moved out. But he also decided to take on more clients and work longer hours! He says it's because he doesn't want to be home alone and we have so many bills to pay. I'm tired of coaching and want to move on. It's terrifying.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

I think it may be too early for MC at this point but for each couple it is a personal choice..

I wouldn't want to work on changing my half of why our marriage had issues if I was still feeling injured and raw from finding out my WH had the A..This approach feels especially wrong if WS is un remorseful..

There were several times in MC when the MC and WH made me so angry! I felt like they were ganging up on me ..This MC was stupid stupid STUPID! He was dumb enough to say that WH's semen would back flow and clog up his male plumbing and cause cancer if he didn't get enough sex.. When the MC said that to me I almost flipped him and WH the bird..I think I actually did walk out... That counselor got fired...

One thing to work out in your head is if you think your marriage has redeeming qualities that make it worth working on ..How much were you getting out of the marriage prior to A..Was life good or difficult with your WS...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 6:27 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Nov 2011
MediumRare
Member
Member # 35128
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Okay, as several others have eluded to, I'm going to try to paint it more black & white:
"...people stray when the marriage is in trouble and since I am one-half of the marriage, it is partially my fault for not making it a place he wanted to stay..."

This notion is 100%, complete, absolute, unequivocal BULLSHIT, rubbish, nonsense, refuse, bollocks, etc. etc. etc.

Most cheaters/waywards are broken people... period. You could fill a multi-ton dump truck with a million people's utmost love, support and intimacy and you could NEVER provide enough as they are a fucking bottomless pit.

Your WS sounds completely broken from this perspective. His head is so far up his own ass that he couldn't hear an air horn blowing at his buttocks. His neediness is a like chucking endless amounts of blood, sweat and tears into a blackhole.

Please do not buy into this nonsense and PLEASE find yourself a new MC/IC!!!


BS (ME): 44
WS(HER): 42
9 years
OM#1- 20-something loser, stole bunch of my things after she had sex with him in our bed (no condoms, STDs)
OM#2- 24 year old, unemployed loser, lives with mom & dad
DDay 1/2012
NC 3/20/2012
SGASDay 4/1/2012

Posts: 721 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: California
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Did you find yourselves having to "coach" your WH/WW through the process? I'm not even referring to the R process but the "surviving after the revelation" stage. Having to tell him what I need and reiterate "why" I need answers to my questions is getting old. He still gets angry with my need to know more than the major points of the affair. He still gets angry with me bc the BH knows. He keeps asking me how my questions are going to help me move forward in anyway. He doesn't want to answer and it's like pulling teeth. I'm tired of coaching because I'm just tired, period, and wish I could stop doing the heavy lifting. Why doesn't he get it? Take initiative? Why does he have to queetion me every step of the way? I've been reading much of the posts and healing library. SI is truly the only thing that is helping me. I actually returned to work this week.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

When do the lies stop? I was stupid enough to let my WH stop by to hang out with the baby and I tonight. I looked at his phone and saw that the other woman contacted my WH using another phone. She contacted him to tell him that I told her husband about the affair and that he needed to "stand up for himself and deny everything because they were never together" except they were. She is still lying to all, even herself. My husband never told me she contacted him even though he promised to tell me about any communication. No we is angry that I looked at his phone and said he is sure he can find suspicious stuff if her looked at my phone or computer long enough. He said I no longer have the right to look at his phone because I will only go "berserk." This is me going berserk... Shaking, crying, and writing on SI. Please help. I feel so alone & so stupid.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

When a mama bird is trying to distract a predator from the nest, she usually does one of two things. She fakes a hurt wing so she looks vulnerable. Or she will all out attack the source of danger.

Sometimes a WS will act hurt that the BS doesn't trust them. Usually they will do the same thing your WH did- go on the attack. They blame the BS for snooping. They make us feel like crap for verifying that the person we are risking our heart for is telling the truth after so many lies.

That's what he's doing. I know it's hard but you need to let him know that unless he's transparent and allows you access to all accounts and phones he needs to just stay away.

Read in the healing library, BS FAQs #11. Start implementing the 180 to regain yourself and to get strength. Keep all communication to email or text so you have a record and can consider an answer before you respond. Show him what he's choosing by maintaining this attitude.

I'm so sorry he's continuing to cause you pain.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11229 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
LMomof2
Member
Member # 41064
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

(((statistic)))

You and I must be married to the same WH. They have the exact same responses and behaviors after they were caught. Exactly. They are sick sick people. Only thinking of themselves and their needs. I kicked mine to the curb. He still thinks I am going to take him back and is going about his life as nothing happened. Can't wait till the papers are served.


LMomof2
Me - BW - 59
Him - WH - 59
35 yrs - 2 daughters 17, 21
DDay - 10-15-13
ONS - 9-20-13 and probably YEARS of gaslighting - signs were there.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

Thank you Holly and LMomof2. I guess his response is pretty stereotypical, nonetheless very hurtful. He sent me the following
email:

I'm tired of your guessing.... And I'm tired of your controlling everything I do... I turned everything off because I don't need you spying on me every step. Do what u want and keep converting everything on me. I think I also want to be out of this. I will sign what is my part."

I've had 3 ddays bc of trickle truth. Since the most recent D day 4 weeks ago today, I've checked his phone once. That is the controlling, spying behavior he is referring to. This was less than an hour after he was apologizing profusely and begging me to being the baby home. Then I found the text he didn't tell me about and he grew angry and bolted. I'm going to use this renewed sense of anger, hurt, and betrayal to move ahead. I cannot stay in this place anymore. It just never ends. He truly believes he has legitimate reasons for his lies of omission and commission. I want to separate myself from this type of pain and deceit.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

How did you all handle your WS's hot and cold behavior? My WH and I met to talk yesterday, but only went a few miles before I asked him to drop me off. I was in a bad mood over a few things that happened over the past week - he has not made time for marriage counseling and I found clips from the movie Friends W Benefits that she would send him as I was making an album on iPhoto. I didn't know about the videos and became sad when I'm confronted with a reminder of the affair.

He responded by telling me that it's been 2 months- (wrong, six weeks), and I need to be more positive in order for us to solve things. He said he did not give me a reason to be upset today so I should not be angry or upset when talking to him. I reminded him of why I'm upset & he said that he has tried to contact the mc, but the mc appointment times are during his work hours and he is not going to miss work to go. He has called the mc 2-3 per week, but appointment times are during my WH work hours. My WH said we have lots of bills to pay & he refuses to go into debt or live on the streets in order to attend as he is paid by the hour, not salary.

That's when he lost it and told me to go ahead and file, I don't need you, you are torturing me on purpose to make me pay, and told me Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you again and dropped me off. I started to cry & stopped listening to his yelling. When I started to cry, I remember him saying "see, is this what you wanted? This is what you get."

Why then does he come back to check on me? I told him to leave & did not go after him. Why does he call and text begging me to stop ignoring him and he has a question for me? Why does he sound so sad and say thing like " I font know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."

As has been the case over our entire marriage, I am struggling to not take responsibility for his anger. I wonder if I am just being a total inflexible hardass and totally destroying any chance of R, which I don't even know Ive ever wanted.
Please advise. I need an outsiders view because I feel like I'm the one in a fog.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

((((Stat))))

He is no way shape or form ready for R. His behavior yesterday clearly showed you that. He is more than happy to come back, and be with you, if you never make an issue of his A, talk about his A, and certainly never share the pain that you have been put in.

I am so angry for you. He keeps giving you just enough to make you think he migh actually get it, and the he mind fucks you every time. Personally I say go file. He doesn't want to go into debt to go to counseling? What a lame excuse, does he realize how much a divorce is going to cost him? Other than his home, his wife, and his family?

His pride is getting in the way. Perhaps something like being served will wake him up, but even if it doesn't you deserve so much more than he is giving you.

180 - 180 - 180 - 180

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

There's nothing any of us can tell you that will permit you to be comfortable with a husband that jeopardized your marriage, threatened your health, your unborn baby's health, and is unremorseful and unempathetic.

Just as his choices to have an affair were selfish and deprived you of caring, compassion, and support, particularly while pregnant and with a new born, so too his choices now are selfish. He.is.selfish. He wants what he wants, for himself, when he wants it. He is not willing to be uncomfortable and entirely willing to have you writhe in pain so that he doesn't have to experience discomfort.

These deficits are his and are the reasons he permitted himself the affair and trickle truth, etc. Unless he deals with his deficits and replaces them, consistently, with the qualities of a faithful, remorseful and empathetic husband MC is premature.

There is no leading him down the faithful husband's path, this he as to do for himself, or not. Your evidence of where he is at are his actions. Lies by omission (which we sugar coat and call trickle truth) badgering you rather than dealing with his issues of selfishness, hollering FU, hiding behind money and work rather than deal with his issues (he found time for the affair) are YOUR evidence of his attitude and intentions. yes, his intentions.

By his behavior you can tell that he intends for you to shut up, and put up, period. Everything else will be met with disdain, deflecting anger and manipulation.

Let go of HIS outcome and your answers will become clear. This will require that you distance yourself from your pain. I think you are very strong, but you are letting your hope for a faithful husband cloud your obsevations. Give him over to his creator, with your best heart, and focus on your healing. He either will choose to follow a faithful husband's path, or not. It takes two to form a faithful marriage.

In closing, give your pain over to the past and move into YOUR healing.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

Why then does he come back to check on me? I told him to leave & did not go after him. Why does he call and text begging me to stop ignoring him and he has a question for me? Why does he sound so sad and say thing like " I dont know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."

Because he is manipulating you.

Do not go to MC. Your WH is not healthy enough to learn how to have a functional intimate relationship.

Here is an article about manipulation in relationships: http://lifeesteem.org/wellness/wellness_manipulation.html

Paraphrased from the article:

Focus on changing yourself, not the manipulator. You will not change a manipulator by trying to get them to understand what they are doing to you. You may think that it would be helpful to share with the manipulator how you feel and how his or her behavior has an impact on you - but this is generally not helpful since most manipulators are not capable of empathy and may use this information against you in the future.

The only effective method of changing manipulative behavior is to disable it by making a change within yourself.

I think you need IC for support and to learn how to disable his bullying.

Two helpful books for my H (who was easily manipulated do to his crappy childhood) were: Who's Pulling Your Strings and In Sheep's Clothing.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

Stastic, you posted that you feel you have spent your ,marriage trying not to take responsibility for your husband's anger.

Now, seeing that in print it would seem obvious to us onlookers that one cannot take responsibility for another person's behavior, and reactions. However, to you who is up close and personal with his anger, you only see the raging gorilla in front of you blocking out a stressfree relationship. You've learned that if you give in to quiet the raging monster life will be easier and the angry monster will become smaller. So, you struggle from doing the right thing (which is letting a grown person deal with the consequences of their own behavior) versus doing the easier thing ( which is to quiet the monster so life is more how you hoped it would be).

Anger is one of the tools your husband is using to manipulate you. Why? Because it has worked, for him. I suspect, however, that it has caused resentment, for you, even before you knew about his affair(s).

If you step back and answer your own questions about why he does anything by observing what that particular behavior has won for him in the past you will observe that he isn't checking on you for your sake, but for his own. He is checking to see if his manipulation is working. He is checking to see if you are in a forgiving frame of mind so that HE doesn't have to feel so bad about his egregious behavior.

As was stated previously, your husband has chosen not to be emotionally mature enough to be a faithful husband. Period. Only he can fix that.

I think we often are of the attitude that we think our emotional healing means that we will think, feel and act, as we did before. However, if we take our clues on healing from the physical realm, where skin builds scars, and bones build extra calcium in order to be healed, our hearts, feelings, and attitudes will most likely be changed in healing.

No one should live attempting to manage another's anger. You seem to be coming to that realization and that means that in your healing your are changing. No amount of trying to figure your unremoseful husband out aids in his, or your, healing. Focusing on your own healing is all that changes things for you.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

((((statistic))))


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

I've not had a chance to go through your responses in detail because my little one is ill. I will as soon as my awesome sister comes to help me. I did want to say that he is trying to get in contact with me and says that he wants to spend the weekend discussing what happened because he thinks we can solve it. He said the things he said didn't mean anything because they were in anger. I've told him time and time again that even words said in anger hurt (isn't that the intention?) and I take them very seriously since I'm usually the one at the receiving end.

How do I show him that what he says, even in anger, is just as painful and wrong? I ask not with the intention of working on this, bc I'm 90% sure I need to file - the other 10% is due to fear- but because we have an infant and we have to interact for any years to come. I don't know how to get him to understand that just because things are said in anger doesn't me that they don't "count."


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

I think the whoe anger thing is very well explained in the posts you haven't read.

As to how can you get him to understand? That is covered as well. The answer is YOU can't "get him to understand". It doesn't suit his purpose to understand.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

Statistic, as I read about your last interaction with him, when he yelled at you until you got out of the car, all I could think was "He is manipulating her, and when it doesn't go his way, the real him comes out."

After he is away from you for a while, he pretends to be remorseful again. He is still in contact with OW. I think he wants to cake eat, and says the bare minimum to make you hopeful. He would stay with you, like the others said, if you never mention the A, whether what happened in the past, and how you felt or feel as a result. If you tolerated it, he would continue the A, guaranteed.

He is abusive, using anger to subdue and control you. You aren't 100% under his control anymore, since you found out about the A, and you are seriously considering whether you want to stay in the M anymore. He is losing control over you, and he knows it. When you get tired of his manipulation he will have to A. take responsibility for it, and decide whether he wants to keep his M and work on himself, or B. decide he would rather stay the same and lose the M. If he chooses plan A, things will slowly get better for you (not for him, for a long time.) If he choses plan B, he will most certainly lash out at you more than he ever has.

I think you need to read up on the 180 and use it until you have decided what you want to do regarding staying in the M.

Regarding your staying in the M because you have one child together. Imagine how difficult and trapped you will be if you have 2, 3, or 4? Ending a M becomes exponentially more difficult the more children you have. End the M now, if that is your gut feeling, because that feeling is not going to go away unless your H does a complete turnaround. He doesn't sound like he is in the mindset to fully cooperate with the hard work of R at this point.

Something your H doesn't get, is that you, You, YOU, are it the driver's seat, when it comes to what you need him to do to R. He doesn't like you asking Q's? Too bad. He doesn't like your moods? Too bad. He doesn't like that you told OW's H? Too bad. He is afraid you will tell everyone? DO IT!!! Let him bear all the brunt for what he did. If he is not 100% remorseful, bearing all the blame, shunning, whatever comes of his behavior, then he is not R material.

(((((statistic)))))


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

that he wants to spend the weekend discussing what happened

Isn't his family going to be in town? If so, thar ya go - he doesn't want them knowing all that's going on, so you should suffer through appearances so, once again, he doesn't experience discomfort, or consequences.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
myowndystopia
Member
Member # 41340
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

I'm too new at this to offer much but

Thankful you have a sister that you can count on to be there for you........


Me- BS
Him - WS (the Grub)
married 28 years/4 kids(mostly grown)

"'Cause there's a side to you that I never knew, never knew.
All the things you'd say, they were never true, never true "
Set Fire to the Rain
Adele


Posts: 408 | Registered: Nov 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

That's when he lost it and told me to go ahead and file, I don't need you, you are torturing me on purpose to make me pay, and told me Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you again and dropped me off. I started to cry & stopped listening to his yelling. When I started to cry, I remember him saying "see, is this what you wanted? This is what you get."

Why then does he come back to check on me? I told him to leave & did not go after him. Why does he call and text begging me to stop ignoring him and he has a question for me? Why does he sound so sad and say thing like " I font know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."


File.

He doesn't get to tell you what you need or don't need. And he sure as hell doesn't get to throw a *mantrum* when you act in a manner that *he* deems unacceptable. THAT is a major red flag that he is unremorseful. And as you know, you cannot have a true R with an unremorseful spouse.

He acts like an abusive asshole -- showing his *true* colors. And then he knows that he needs to *reel you back in*. Except that he uses the *victim* card to do that.

" I dont know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."

Do you see that HE is causing the problem and then comes back, shrugging his shoulders, acting all *what the hell just happened?"

He doesn't want to understand anything. He knows. You can bet your bottom dollar that HE would be the first one to scream *foul* if YOU spoke to him in that manner.

He's not *getting it*....he's just trying to keep you in line and at his beck and call.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8085 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, November 15th (Friday)

He keeps giving you just enough to make you think he migh actually get it, and the he mind fucks you every time

Yes, Tushnurse, this is what happens time and time again. I keep thinking each time will be the last. I accept his apology each and every time. I actually feel guilty if I do not accept his apology and engage with him again because it feels like I am not being fair. He apologized, so I should forgive him. I will regret it later if I do not forgive because I had the chance to save this marriage and I gave it up. This is what I am afraid of...among a million other things.

I think you are very strong, but you are letting your hope for a faithful husband cloud your obsevations.


Alphakitte - Yes, I am hanging onto hope. Not of what he is showing me on a consistent basis, but of what he could be. The sick part is that I am not sure I can forgive him. When I am honest with myself, his affair is a deal breaker for me. I am terrified of what this means though - divorce, single mom with an infant, loss of financial security, loneliness, losing him etc. I guess the scared part of me wishes he would do something to make it easier to stay, but he can only do this for so long.

Sailorgirl- thank you for the references. I am reading them this morning. I spend an enormous amount of time and energy trying to "get him to understand." I truly believed that he would alter his behavior if he only understood what it is doing to me. This is a belief I continue to struggle with because it has worked in the past, but not for very long.

((Getting to Happy))

HurtButHopeful - I do walk away feeling from our arguments feelings like I've been spun around and twisted. It reminds me of when we spin someone around before they hit a piŮata. I feel like that person - lost my sense of direction, don't know up from down, but I am swinging like hell to catch on to something, anything to get my bearings back. I wonder if he maintains contact with the OW. I doubt it, but I have been very, very wrong in the past.

Myowndystopia _ I am lucky to have my sister to help with my daughter because right now I am not the mom I need to be. I am often sad, angry, or scared which makes its hard to always be happy around her.

Gonnabe2016- I didn't see it that way...using the victim card to reel me back in. That is probably why I find it so confusing. When I ask him about it, he says he knows he overreacted, is sorry, and that this is a very difficult time for us both, so its easier to set him off. Today he is apologetic and wanted to "talk." He has left messages or texts saying we can solve this and he will do anything to fix this. But I have heard this before. I will ask for some distance because I cannot see clearly any longer.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, November 15th (Friday)

Dear Stat,

says that he wants to spend the weekend discussing what happened

I truly hope you will not do this. I believe it will only prolong your pain. I would 180 this guy and not give in to his guilt trips.

Understanding needs to come from HIM. You cannot explain things to him. Sounds like he has a problem listening, among others. I agree with others, filing is probably your best option.

Sending hugs your way. Take care.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 387 | Registered: Feb 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, November 15th (Friday)

Wow!! WS visited my daughter today. I went to run an errand and left my phone at home by mistake. I didn't return for it because I didn't think it a big deal. I look at my phone just now and all text conversations between WS and I are gone. He said he doesn't want me to read them and have bad memories. I say he is afraid these texts would be used against him somehow. He only reminds me of the fact that I cannot trust him and/or he doesn't trust me. He is probably trying to work this out for his own benefit, not ours as a couple. The hits keep coming and I wish they would kill every last feeling I have for him and make this hurt just a little less...


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, November 15th (Friday)

Oh, yippee! You are dealing with a *disappearer*. Make the evidence *go away* and it didn't happen, right?

Right now....as soon as you are done reading this sentence....download the app on your phone that exports your texts to your email. There are a couple of different ones, but just pick one and do it.

Then. Passcode ALL of your electronics with a code that he will never guess in a million years. Use your first boyfriend's birthday or the street number of the house you first lived in...whatever. Just do it.

I didn't see it that way...using the victim card to reel me back in. That is probably why I find it so confusing.

And now that I've introduced the topic...you're gonna see it in spades.

When I ask him about it, he says he knows he overreacted, is sorry, and that this is a very difficult time for us both

(I really wish that I could *double-bold* because.....) ^^^^^THAT is some of the *victim* shit that I alluded to. "It is a difficult time for us both* Really????? *He* brought his *difficult* time on HIMSELF. Don't be a cheater and life would be just fine, right? He doesn't get to pull this crap on you, Stat.

If he keeps *hitting* you in this way, your hurt is going to turn to some serious anger and all of that hurt that you feel is going to be something that you'll work out later.

Be.Done.With.Him. He is NOT remorseful.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8085 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
mystified1970
Member
Member # 36291
Concerned  Posted: 11:23 PM, November 15th (Friday)

My husband convinced me for the past year that he was not unfaithful. Instead I was made to feel like I was a lunatic. He denied.

This was my life for more than 10 years. My instincts were right...I was just too afraid to follow up on my feeling. Now that I am trusting my instincts, the truth is coming out....slowly and painfully, but it's coming out.


heavy sigh

Posts: 83 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Asia
PedNurse
New Member
Member # 41123
Default  Posted: 3:42 AM, November 16th (Saturday)

He said the things he said didn't mean anything because they were in anger. I've told him time and time again that even words said in anger hurt (isn't that the intention?) and I take them very seriously since I'm usually the one at the receiving end.

I really want to share with you a quote that I found a few weeks after I found out that I was being cheated on.

"Listen to what people say when they're mad, that's when the truth comes out".

I hate hearing "I didn't mean it, I was mad". No, you meant it - the anger is what made you brave enough to say it.

Similar to your situation - I knew something was going on months before I found proof. And when I asked about her (our "friend"), I got - "Fuck no! God no! What have I done to make you think that. " And I took it. I felt like I was the crazy woman. That I was the one that needed to be fixed. Only to find out 2.5 weeks after that explanation that he was and had been cheating on me. Those last weeks of our relationship were toxic. He went from being passive aggressive to being straight up mean. The night before I found out - I was comforting him on our couch. He was sobbing - like snot coming out of his nose hysterics. Telling me he was "afraid that he was losing me" and that I was "the closest person in his life the past 3 years". I was his "best friend". Turned out he doesn't treat his friends too well. The OW was married - to his friend of 15 years. And he didn't think he was in the wrong. It didn't phase him that we knew the OW through his friend. Or that we witnessed their marriage vows.

But I digress. His words spoken out of anger show what he thinks and where he stands. I am still new here, but from what I see, for R to happen - total transparency is a requirement of the WS.

I am almost 8 months from my DDay, and I feel for you. March & April of 2013 were the worst months of my life. My heart goes out to you. I wish for you peace.

And to everyone who has posted on this thread -thank you. I just found this thread tonight and have read everything - it's almost 0500 where I am. Your responses have been like therapy to me. It has been a very difficult week for me filled with triggers. I am beginning to think that those who have compared dealing with infidelity and betrayal to PTSD are spot on. Much respect to you all.


I lost my love, best friend, home, and a future all in a matter of weeks.

Posts: 2 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: United States
beginningagain
New Member
Member # 41326
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, November 16th (Saturday)

Statistic, the scariest thing in the world is realizing you are going to be the sole provider and support of a small child and there are bargains that go on inside of your mind -- anything - anything! -- to take that pain away and return the safety net. I have been there. I have done it. My son was 4.5 years old when I divorced my first husband and he was so po'd at the end of the marriage, he refused to help care for his son, see his son, etc..no money...and you know what? I found strength I didn't know I had. You can DO THIS. Sticking with something that feels safe but is actually damaging to your soul, self-esteem and psyche is not the better choice. He will constantly undermine you and make this about you (or conversely about him..being the victim). Stand tall. You got this.

Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, November 16th (Saturday)

Thank you, Begin. I'm so scared I find myself trembling when I think of what lies ahead. When I think or talk about what is going on, I cannot stop shaking. I've been struggling with cold swears and night and have had disturbing nightmares. I've not even had a chance to profess the affair as I'm struggling to handle his current inconsistent behavior. My fear is that I am going to lose my mind when I file, when he retaliates, or whatever else lies ahead. I cannot currently do my job well. If my boss became aware of my productivity, I would surely be placed on probation. I still can't do basic things like shower, work, clean, or manage the house like I used to. I give all my energy to my daughter and it is honestly taking everything I have. What happens when I have a divorce to contend with as well? What happens when I finally let go of all hope? What if I cannot do the one thing I am struggling to do now- care for my daughter?

I'm glad to hear that you found your inner strength. It helps to know someone else has been through a similar situation and succeeded.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, November 16th (Saturday)

Statistic,
My heart goes out to you. I shook like a leaf for weeks after d-day, and it is definitely hard to function. I know you're putting your daughter first, but don't forget that you need to take care of yourself.

Is your IC helpful?

Even if you file for divorce, you do not have to let go of all hope. Your H could dig deep, own his shit, and start learning how to be an honest, dependable, healthy man. But you do have to let go of the hope that you can make him become that man.

I truly believed that he would alter his behavior if he only understood what it is doing to me. This is a belief I continue to struggle with because it has worked in the past, but not for very long.

Did it really work, or was he just being "good" to get you back? Or to get you off his back?


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, November 17th (Sunday)

Sailor girl,

I don't think it worked. I think it was just placed on the back burner and probably to get me off his back. I think he is accustomed to me giving in and expects it each time. He knows I cannot tolerate it when he is angry with me, regardless of fault. I've always been this way.

My IC is helpful. I see her first thing tomorrow. Thank goodness because this week has been a doozy.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
littlemrsV0813
New Member
Member # 41148
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, November 18th (Monday)

[This message edited by littlemrsV0813 at 10:56 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 44 | Registered: Oct 2013
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Statistic,

Fear is a horrible thing. I stayed in my marriage trying to R for two full years out of fear. Not fear of my EXH but fear of changing my life, fear of what I would do as a single parent, how would I survive, fear of what this would do to our son.

One day the fear wasn't so big anymore, I was stronger and realized that I wasn't living a happy life and no matter what came I was strong enough to handle it. Don't let fear cloud any decisions you make. THe first thing you need to do is see an lawyer and find out what needs to be done to protect yourself.

As far as work, have you considered talking to your boss. When I was going through my early days I had to let my boss know that I was going through some serious issues in my marriage. Can you be open and honest with them? Is there an ESS program where you work?


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Littlemrs,

I do think I may be struggling with PPD as well. I went on antidepressants towards the end of my pregnancy because things were just so bad because of my suspicions and our arguments as he tried to convince me that I was looking way too deep into things. I stopped taking them because the minute I stopped asking, things got better between us and i felt better. Imagine that :(

Ninebark,

I have the same thoughts/concerns you described. I latch on to any sign of hope - a phone call, a nice text from him - out of fear. For instance, he has been nice today - checking on the baby, calling me, making sure my mom has everything she needs, etc. This is the same person who cussed me out just a few days ago and deleted my text messages. Which person is he? Is this part of the manipulation? So truly remorseful WS's act in a more consistent fashion? I keep thinking - "If he does just one more thing to upset me, then I am out the door." Yeah right. That lasts about 5 minutes. I am letting fear dictate everything. I hate this mess and whatever I am doing to prolong it.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Statistic, you are in an abuse cycle. You have grown accustomed to it, and although it hurts, it doesn't hurt badly enough for you to do something to get yourself out of it. He is also used to this cycle, and he does his part to keep it going, because he knows you will stay in it with him. His abuses and disrespect will not go away. The only way for you to get out of the cycle is to stop interacting with him.

You need to look into the resources in your area, so you do not rely on him for anything. IC will help you give yourself the love you need instead of looking to him for it. Then you won't need to stay in the cycle with him, getting the little bit of love you get.

(((((statistic)))))


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, November 18th (Monday)

I wait for him to show me respect and love, I'm between arguments, because otherwise I think he doesn't give it to me because I don't deserve it. I get my sense of respect, love, etc from him, not from inside myself. It makes me sick to write these things and I honestly wouldn't write or share this if I had to face each of you in person because I'm ashamed of what I've allowed myself to grow accustomed to.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, November 18th (Monday)

I'm glad you and we all have this place where we can safely let our hair down and be vulnerable. Facing oneself is the only way to grow, and become an authentic person. I'm there with you, not identical situation, but similar in some ways.

(((statistic)))


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, November 21st (Thursday)

How have you all fought the urge to rugweep the affair and everything else that went along with it? Or is this just a phase one goes through in the aftermath?

It seems like I've done everything wrong since leaving him and made it impossible to R. Since I'm not living in the same home and we are about 25 miles apart and he works long hours, we do not communicate or spend much time together. I feel like this is my fault for leaving. When we do talk, it turns into an argument. I think it turns into an argument because I feel like I'm not enough of a priority... I definitely wasn't during the affair obviously. But what I am asking him to so seems to be too hard for him to do. He says I am making it impossible for him to show me how dedicated he is to change by not living in the same home and asking way too much of him and getting upset over small things. He also says our bills and the nature of his job prevent him from being more available. He is too tired at the end of his 12 hour shift to visit me, for instance. He said he would have a better chance at showing me how dedicate he is if we were home at the end of his shift. I wanted him to show me this type of behavior before I moved back home. How do I know if I'm just being a hard ass and asking for too much and thereby making it impossible for us to have a chance at R? Am I just engaging in self-defeating behavior? Will I regret setting demands that I know he will not meet on a consistent basis and not being more flexible?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Truly
Member
Member # 40715
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, November 21st (Thursday)


Ok, stop.

Just breathe.

He found PLENTY of time to LIE, CHEAT, RUG SWEEP and GASLIGHT.

If he had just met you he would find the time to woo you.

HE needs to FIND the time and the inclination. If he loved you this would not be a problem. If he was genuinely remorseful it would not be a problem. He's using you like a convenience.

Stop. Just stop. The word you're looking for is 'No'.
Don't let him manipulate you. You've done the hard part, moving out. The rest is up to you.

Re-read your posts about the cycle of abuse you are in and ask yourself if you even want him. Do you just want him to want you?

Love is NOT about being afraid. Someone who loves you offers you a safe place to land...EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Being a single mum is hard. BTDT. But it was far easier than being with an abuser.
The only person you have to wake up with every day is yourself.
You deserve the best.
Watch his actions.

You know the truth (((((((((statistic))))))))
kia kaha x


There are dark shadows on the earth, but its lights are stronger in the contrast.
Charles Dickens


Posts: 257 | Registered: Sep 2013
angryone
Member
Member # 11535
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, November 21st (Thursday)

Oh statistic...
You are setting the bar way.too.low.
This wh of yours needs no hand holding as far as what to do for proper R. Give him a letter outling what he is REQUIRED to do so that you may CONSIDER reconciliation. This letter should include a NC requirement, IC and/or maybe anger management for him, and so on. Then he is responsible for seeing R through. It's on him to do this. You hold all the cards, yet you are too afraid to use them. You may need ADs to help you see the bigger picture. You are not making it too difficult for him to R. If he really wanted R he would move heaven and earth to get you back. He is not doing that.

Ask yourself:
If you weren't afraid, what would you do?


Posts: 182 | Registered: Aug 2006
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, November 21st (Thursday)

Oh honey he is manipulating you. If he really wanted to make it work he would be moving earth and heaven, not blaming you for taking steps to be independent.

You are not responsible for makin R possible. That's up to him, he's quite frankly full of shit when he says you bein far away are preventing R. Don't fall for it. If he really truly was committed to you and to R, he would be apologizing, asking what he can do to get you to come back. Please do not blame yourself remember what he did has done and is NOT doing now.

You can do this and you will come out a superstar and he will continue to be a lonely broken man

(((( and strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, November 22nd (Friday)

It's hard for me to see when he is manipulating me because his reasoning makes sense to me in some ways. He is my first serious relationship so I don't know any different. I also know his personality and his limitations as a person and want to be respectful of that. I do not want to look back when all is said and done and know that I didn't try everything. I also don't want to look back and think that I asked for something that was just too much to ask for, thereby ruining it for us.

My request before I consider reconciling and returning home are as follows:

1. NC - they've not communicated except for a text message where she told him that I had told her husband about the affair, since May. I'm not sure if a letter is needed.
2. MC - on a regular basis. Our MC is very busy and offers times with little notice that required my husband to miss work- he will not miss work to attend so this has not happened for the past 2 weeks. We scheduled an appt in Dec bc it coincided with a time my WH had off already.
3. Anger management- I'm not sure how this will be received.
4. Talk to me and answer my questions about the affair without losing his temper and walking off or making declarations that he doesn't want to work it out. So far, he has not been able to do this. He says that we also need some positive interactions- going to dinner & movie- where we do not talk about these things because otherwise he has nothing to look forward to or work towards. I've been consistently upset when we do communicate because I feel like we always go back to zero and I don't feel like I've had a real opportunity for him to hear me out.
5. Look for work elsewhere or cut back on his work hours. He said he will look for work elsewhere but does not think it's possible. He is in a specialized area so him working elsewhere would be very hard on him an our finances. Also, he said he would cut back his hours if we spent less money, but not until then bc he cannot tolerate going into debt. He was born and raised in a country where he and his family were homeless and depended on others for food so financial security is paramount to him and always has been.

These issues are complicated by the fact that his English ability is intermediate at best.

Is there anything else I am missing in terms of requests?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
angryone
Member
Member # 11535
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, November 22nd (Friday)

He needs to be an open book: you can look at his cell and computer anytime, you can ask questions about anything concerning the A and he will have to answer them without reservation, his job would have to include NC for life with OW. By the way, if he loses his job because of the A, well he made his choices that included this possibility. That's not on you at all.

He is right about going out and having a good time with you without talking about the A. That's how you begin to move on together. However, he will have to answer all your questions before you can even think about moving on together.

If you don't get your answers and still choose to reconcile, you will always wonder. You will never feel safe. You must do what you fear. Power through it. You will only be better off, no matter the outcome. Insist on being treated with dignity and respect. You have been wronged.

Stand up for you and your child.


Posts: 182 | Registered: Aug 2006
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, November 22nd (Friday)

Thank you AA, Truly and Tushnurse,

I have moments where I am strong, then moments of total weakness. I just feel turned around each time we talk. I go in knowing what I want to say, and notice him puling away or growing angry, so I back off. Of course, this is not going to get me what I need.

I think he said it best when he said that he is incapable of doing some of the things I asked of him because he does not see how it can be helpful. A small example- He called me on how way home from work. I had a rough night with the baby and work, mostly because I can't stop thinking about the affair. I asked him questions like "what did she give you - attention, admiration, etc. that made you ok with moving forward with her?" or "How could you use our money to pay for hotel rooms?" I went on to describe how hurt I am and continue to be 7 weeks out. I also mention how hurt I ma about the affair, but also the horrible gaslighting and TT and broken NC he previously agreed to when I thought it was just a EA, even though he never admitted it.

Times like these I wish he would talk to me, answer honestly, and help me get through the moment. He will talk and answer some, but will snap and say "is this how you want to spend our time? I do not enjoy talking to you like this. This is not going to solve anything. I hate talking on the phone. I am tired and need to go to bed, I work early in the morning, etc. etc. etc. You just want to attack me and make me feel horrible for what I did. I am an asshole, I know it, you are not telling me anything new. I asked you to come back, and you did not." That's how it goes.

I tried to text or email, but he is hesitant to respond because he believes I am asking questions to gather information to be used against him later on -either during a divorce or perhaps to publically humiliate him- instead of thinking that I need to work through these issues.

Someone asked me in an earlier post if I truly wanted him and the answer is - I want the man he was- which I think is still there somewhere. I am not accustomed to this person in front of me and perhaps that is why I refuse to believe that this is him. I think crisis can bring out the best or worst in people and right now, he is at his worst...someone I do not know and am desperately trying to dig into him and find the person he was before. Maybe I am wrong for doing this as I drag myself down with it.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

I did as everyone suggested... 180, NC, saw a lawyer and something changed. I did these things not as a way to get a reaction from him but to protect myself because I lost all hope and was sinking into a very dark place.

To my surprise, he did the following over the past couple weeks without any recent prompting - placed an audio recorder/gps system in his car, "shared" his work calendar so I can see where he is/ who he is with, spends every free moment with our baby, asked his boss if I can call her and ask her where he is/what he is doing any time and can stop by his work unexpectedly (affair happened at work), stopped defending himself, made additional MC appointments so his work schedule would not interfere, calls/texts all day/night long to check on baby & I, apologized for his anger problem, etc... He even ran into OW & her BH at an event & called me right away to tell me.

I do not know what to make of it because I do not know what he has started to behave in this way considering how verbally abusive he has been in the very recent past. I feel like I should appreciate his efforts & make amends, or else I am being unreasonable, ungrateful or mean and may regret not taking advantage of his changed behavior that may lead to a better future for us.. At the same time, I cannot let go of the affair & his recent angry tirades. Any advice or comments are greatly appreciated. I am confused by this sense of obligation to strike while the iron is hot to "fix" this, but hate myself for even considering this given some of the very painful things he has said and done. Is this change in him short-lived?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Lostandpregnant
Member
Member # 41433
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

Please please PLEASE google narcissistic personality disorder. He sounds so textbook..read everything you can about it. You can NOT trust this man..he will do this again and again.


He left me 18 weeks pregnant with twins for another.I am a Licensed Private Investigator..it even happens to us.

Posts: 354 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Canada
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

I am a bit confused. Didn't you say very early on in this thread that your husband was fired? It sounds like he is still at the same place where the affair happened though. Thanks for clarification.

Posts: 1427 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
iwillNOT
Member
Member # 40605
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

Statistic-

I am not much further out than you, so take what I have to say with that in mind.

I say, if you see him giving you what you have been asking for, tell him you notice. Express you appreciation. Reinforce this behavior. You want him to be motivated to continue.

And, guard your heart. Watch and wait. If he is consistent then you will see it and bit by tiny bit your heart may begin to let him back in...he may have relapses but you should see a consistent effort over time that will tell you he is on his way to being the man you need. If you don't see effort sustained over time then you have a choice to make.

One other thing that comes to mind is - do go out together, spend time, try to laugh or do something you enjoy. Try not to talk about the A during this time. It's okay to try to spend time together and enjoy yourself a little if possible, without A talk.

((Statistic))


Me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 44
Together 21 years
Married 14 years
Kiddos 2,6,8,10
Dday#1 2004, 3 years after EA/PA co-worker MOW
Dday#2 8-6-13, 13 months EA/9months PA with co-worker MOW - caught not confessed
Rugsweep now, pay later. Ask me how I know.

Posts: 512 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 3:49 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

Yes, he was fired recently asked to return by his immediate superior once the director, who fired my WH, changed posts. This was a surprise and rather disconcerting. It felt like his behavior was excused and he was left with no real consequence. So yes, he is at the place where the affair happened and he told me she has been there on one occasion with her BS. I worry each day that she will frequent the facility as often as before. Thanks for asking.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

I didn't finish responding because I needed to feed the little one. Thank for the replies. I will be careful. I am not sure as to the motivation behind this change. It is real? Will it be consistent? Is a person who cheats once more likely, or less likely to cheat again? My WH states that now that he knows the costs and how short-lived the benefits of the affair were, he would not choose to cheat if presented with opportunities in the future. I am wondering if I will find myself back on SI in the JFO forum in 5, 10, or 20 years.

I guess I am skeptical because not too long ago, he would say horrible things when he was angry that made me essentially give up all hope, and now this? Has anyone else experienced a sharp turn in terms of their WH behavior for the better? Was it real?

Am I naive to think he can change? Even if he does change, does this make up for what was done in the past? If I decide to stop the separation and move back home as a result of this "new" man he is trying had to be, am I excusing his previous emotionally abusive and cheating ways?


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
iwillNOT
Member
Member # 40605
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

(((Statistic)))

I am also struggling with many of your questions in my own situation. This is where I am on some of them.

Is the change real?

I don't know, but I am watching and waiting. 4 months out and I consistently see him trying and working. It's enough for me to " not divorce him" but not ready to say Reconcile.
We never physically separated.

Is he likely to cheat again?

I think yes - but, if he works hard to change, can that be offset? I think yes on that, too.

This is the second go- round for us BUT the first time we both rugswept. It is completely different now. Both in IC, MC, hubby is giving me what I ask for and even things I didn't ask for that he is being proactive about. I can say that the only reason I did not leave after Dday 2 is b/c we rugs wept the first one and I wanted to be able to tell my children I did everything I could if we did end up divorced.

If the A was not a deal breaker for you, and you feel a possibility in your heart for the 2 of you, there is nothing wrong with leaving that door cracked open BUT making sure there is consistent proof of change over time to make you feel safe enough to move forward before you go all in. In other words, reserve the right to walk away, set your boundaries and stick to them.

If he moves back home, does this excuse his past emotional abuse and cheating?

NO. The decision to end the separation is yours, you must feel safe first of all from any abuse. There is never an excuse for that behavior. I don't know what I would do in your shoes, you would have to use your own judgement. I can say that if you have a remorseful WH who is trying, and you want to give things a chance, then I think it would be much harder to be physically separated. Living together for me means still having a second parent there,not wondering so much about where he is/ what he's doing, and being able to take the opportunity for discussions when they come up. And yes, it has provided opportunities for mutual comfort and closeness.

Is an in- house separation possible for you? It might feel less risky if you could preserve some distance, but still be a step towards letting him show you his consistency.

I am such a newbie myself, here, maybe I am way off base. Your story speaks to me, and I have been following your posts. I think you are amazingly strong to do all you have done, and with a new baby too. Whatever direction you choose, and it IS your choice, I feel you will make it through even stronger. I wish you the best.


Me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 44
Together 21 years
Married 14 years
Kiddos 2,6,8,10
Dday#1 2004, 3 years after EA/PA co-worker MOW
Dday#2 8-6-13, 13 months EA/9months PA with co-worker MOW - caught not confessed
Rugsweep now, pay later. Ask me how I know.

Posts: 512 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
Jesss
Member
Member # 40333
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

Hi Statistic,
I have been following your thread and although my WH cheated in a different way, I feel exactly like you, same questions, same fear, same inconsistent and emotionally and verbally abusive treatment from WH.

Read the first post in the "hindsight is 20/20" thread by Katherine41.
Look at number 5. Is your WH doing everything on your list? That's what I've started to think about when I feel like he is starting to be remorseful. Is he doing the minimum things I've asked for?


BS: 31, WS: 35
4 kids between 2 and 7yrs old
DDAY 1: July 2013
DDAY 2: Sept 2013
DDAY 3: Oct 2013
DDAY 4: Feb 2014

Posts: 108 | Registered: Aug 2013
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

Thank you PregnantandLost, IWILLNOT and Jess. Yes, an in-home separation is possible. I can see how it would benefit the family if we were to move towards R. My fear is that the arguments will occur again. I wonder how long until he loses his patience with me.

IWILLNOT- thank you for saying that you think I am strong. I needed to hear that.

On a related note, I am embarrassed to return. My family and friends feel very strongly that a divorce is in order. I can only imagine how they will see me if I decide to return. I don't blame them.

Today was a rough day - a local conference I registered for is using the hotel my WH and the OW used. I don't think I can go. I started getting mental pictures and spent my lunch break crying in my car. Each time I have a moment like this, I want to run as far away from him as possible.

I met with another lawyer because the first was too expensive. I scheduled todays appointment a month ago and decided to keep it because I am not sure what the future holds. The lawyer seems good and has a more reasonable retainer. However, he mentioned that if my WH wants to play hardball, he recommends calling the OW as a fact witness in order to establish fault and turn things in my favor. Do any of you have experience with this? I may post the same question in the divorce forum.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Topic Posts: 166