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User Topic: Betrayed and Confused
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

This will probably be a log and rambling letter, since it is the first time I've ever done something like this. 45 year old with 3 kids between 7 and 13. M for 15 years, together for nearly 25 years. Always thought we had a pretty healthy marriage as we would joke about other couples issues and wonder how they were still together. Well, now the jokes on me.
About three months ago, we had a prolonged fight where I ended up sleeping on the couch for a couple of days. Anyways, as we typically did, one day I just tried to make up and she told me we need to talk. I thought "Oh Crap, this isn't good" Well it wasn't.
She basically told me that she was completely tired of me not being supportive of her issues at work for one thing. Now I am a project manager and problem solver by nature, so my way of dealing with her work issues was to tell her what she could do to fix her problems, rather than just listen. 1st mistake. She also vented that I was too hard on the kids as it pertained to sports and academics and that I could never be just happy with their successes without trying to make them better. I acknowldge this and have been working on it. Anyways she basically told me she was at her wits end and that she wasn't sure if she wanted to continue with me. WAKEUP CALL.
Well. as you can imagine, I was devistated by this news. I completely misread the signs as being marriage growing pains and part of the process. This was not the way we were supposed to be. I didn't sleep or eat well for weeks after this. I worked on my issues during this time and felt we were making progress. Our conversations were more relaxed and natural. We had a vacation to Hawaii planned with the kids about 4 weeks after this revelation. The trip felt great. I thought we reconnected, had a great time with the kids, were passionate with each other and things were going in the right direction. I thought we were making progress.
Fast forward to DDay, September 13. I was planning her 40th birthday party by inviting friends and family to a dinner I was planning. I needed to get one of her friends phone numbers so I could invite them when I stumbled on what I will never be able to forget as long as I live. Instead of clicking on phone I accidentally clicked messages and there, staring me in the face, was a text message to a co-worker, that was to say the least, not appropriate. So, shaking, I proceeded to scroll through the intense messages, until I fell to my knees, unable to take it anymore. I began sobbing and hyperventalating to the point that I woke up my wife in a panic wanting to know what was wrong. I told her, she looked like a deer in headlights, and could only say that it had been going on for a while. Unfortunately, I had a meeting that I could not get out of at that moment, so I had to press on since all I wanted to do at that moment was crawl into a ball and die.
When we got home that night, we talked for a long time. It turns out the OM was from her companys East Coast office (we live on the west coast)and that there was no phsyical contact. I asked WF if she loved OM. She said no, she was basically using him to make WF feel good and she liked it. WF said she had no feelings for OM. WF wanted to communicate with someone who would listen, tell her what she wanted to hear and make her feel good about herself. (All the typical statements that I have been reading through these forums). At the end of the discussion, she asked if I would lay with her and hold her while we fell asleep which I was more than willing to oblige her with.
That weekend was a fog, but on Monday she texted me early in the morning that she had made an appointment with a MC for the next day, which I thought was encouraging. WW indicated that she had called him that day and said she was unproffesional, she deeply hurt her BH and had to end it. We met the MC, aired our issues. She indicated that the A was phone and text only since he was long distance and I believed her. We kissed after the meeting and even went home briefly to show how we felt about each other.
Things went on OK for a few days, but I couldn't get the images of her with him out of my head and I started spinning out of control with grief, desparation, anger and paranoia. I continued to want to know details about what had happened, what was said and how long it was going on. Slowly she revealed that the texting had been going on for about 2 months and she had made a couple of phone calls as well which hurt. She told me that the discussions were about holding each other, back-rubs, drinking wine on the balcony, but nothing heavily sexual. Right?
Well, my insecurity got the best of me and I decided to check our phone and messaging records to see if she had still been contacting OM and vice versa. For the 2 weeks after d-day it appeared they hadn't which made me feel good. Then I made the mistake of checking the history. I was floored. Phone calls dating back to February of up to 2 hours long, at 5pm when she was working late to catch up, nearly every day. Later on, even phone calls and text messages on the weekend when I was probably sitting in the next room. Even texts on our Hawaii trip where I thought we were connecting. That killed me and I confronted her on the phone and asked her what I was to believe now. WW said what does it matter what I say anymore. The truth would be nice.
So here I am today, wanting to retain my marriage. I want to believe that this was something she could quit cold turkey to work on our marriage issues. She says she has NC but I'm not convinced. Gmail account on her phone that she says she cant access since she doesn't remember the password along with that damn Incognito browsing that makes it impossible to see what she is doing.
My problem now is this; I still love her and want to work on the marital issues that pulled us apart but despite her saying she is in and being proactive about the counseling, I'm not convinced she is. My gut tells me she has gone underground with this and until I know definitively, will always fell this way. I'm trying to balance fixing our communication skills and avoiding impacting the kids all while feeling she is not NC with her lover. I ackgnowledge my shortcomings and I take responsibility for my part in the failure of our marriage. She says the A was deceitful and she fells horrible about it and wouldn't do it again but she keeps wanting to make sure it doesn't take away from what she was going through and her issues. It doesn't on my end unless she is still talking to him. Desarately trying to figure out where to go from here. Thanks for listening!

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

First, I am so sorry you find yourself here.

Second, you are not responsible for her affair.

The betrayal is completely on your WW.

Sadly, her behavior and the slow and agonizing revelations about the true nature of the relationship are too typical.

The pain is paralyzing. We have been there. You must focus on yourself. Drink water and eat when you can force something down.

Post here. There are so many who care and can offer wisdom and comfort.

Finally, I must say again, you are not responsible for the affair. There are limitless ways she could have constructively dealt with HER issues. Going outside the marriage was not acceptable.

Hugs to you



BW 53 WXH 56 & still bewildered
D-Day 9-15-11
Divorce 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Hi S&D, Is the OM married? If so, I would find a way to make sure his wife knows what he has been up to. She could help monitor things from her end. Sorry you are going through this.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 387 | Registered: Feb 2013
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Hi Edith. Thanks for responding. From what my WW tells me he is 40 and never married. I gather he is some kind of "player" as she mentioned to me that she called him a Casanova while he described his conquests to her. Sick SOB. I actually contacted him the following week to let him know my feelings about this whole thing. He said it was just flirting and that he knew I had 3 kids and wouldn't want to do anything to break the family up. What a guy! Sad thing is I'm nearly convinced that they are still acting out even during our attempt at reconcilliation. I can move forward but not if he is still in the picture, especially after she has said to my face numerous times that there was no more contact and it was over with him. Is that possible after spending that much time communicating with OM (9 months, nearly daily)?

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Hey Shattrd. Sorry you are here. If you read my profile, you'll find that our stories start somewhat similarly.

Read up on the healing library, it's the yellow box on the top left of the screen. Lots of good articles in there on getting through this.

Again. Sorry you are here. A thread you might want to check out is the betrayed Menz thread down in "I can relate" Good fellas in there.

All right here comes the nitty and gritty.

Cheaters are liars. Liars lie. You have been experiencing this first hand. Has she admitted anything to you that you haven't already discovered? First she tells you just a couple of calls, then it's two months, then it's 9 months.

9 months of emails, texts, phone calls. Do you really believe that this is all that happened? Doubtful.
Regardless, betrayal is betrayal whether an EA or a PA. It's the lying that is going to doom the relationship.

She says the A was deceitful and she fells horrible about it and wouldn't do it again but she keeps wanting to make sure it doesn't take away from what she was going through and her issues.

What issues and what was she going through?

I noticed that you "aired your issues at MC." Oh really? Don't do it man, don't take the fall for this shitty behavior. The marriage may not have been perfect...but it's pretty hard to have a good marriage when someone has been unfaithful to you for at least the past 9 months. But sure, the breakdown is your fault. Don't buy into this blameshifting bullshit.

See a lawyer. Figure out what your rights are. I'm not saying file for divorce, but you should find out what your rights are as a husband and a father are.

Stay strong. Eat, breathe.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Thanks wonderboy. I read your story. Wow, almost like looking in a mirror. I was happy to see you were able to work through it. At this point that is what I am hoping for. We have a lot invested at this point. Did your WS ever have any contact with the OM after you found out? That's where I am right now, trying to figure out if anything is still going on in the last three weeks. I'm hoping to find out tonight if anything is going on. Its difficult because of that "unknown" gmail account on her phone and the incognito setting on the internet explorer. Thanks again for helping.

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Hey S&D, My FWH broke no contact for 3 months, while I was putting forth my maximum effort at staying alive. He kept in contact with filthy skank all that time knowing how terribly he had hurt me.

He later told me that he pushed things as far as he thought he could because the A was like a drug. Little solace, I know. I would definitely contact an attorney and put the 180 into practice. Sorry your wife has invited this dirtbag into your life. Take care.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 387 | Registered: Feb 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

At this point that is what I am hoping for.

When I just found out, that was all I was hoping for as well. I thought if I could change, or be a better husband then she would see the errors of her ways. Hmmm, that didn't work. No matter how much you try to nice her back, it won't work.
Your trip to Hawaii is an example of this. There you are in an island paradise, you are trying to be prince charming. She couldn't/wouldn't see it, because you had to be the villain in her affair fantasy. Otherwise, what kind of person is she? I mean, really someone involved in an affair rarely admits that they are the bad person, instead they have to justify their actions. Either their spouse is an asshole or they share some sort of perfect love with the AP. It's all BS justification.

Until she goes NC (actual and mental) she isn't going to be able to commit to rebuilding the damage that SHE has done.

We have a lot invested at this point

You did. She didn't, she threw that all away.

Its difficult because of that "unknown" gmail account on her phone and the incognito setting on the internet explorer. Thanks again for helping.

I have never met anyone who didn't know the password to their email account on their phone.

Reconciliation requires honesty and transparency. Are you getting either of these? From what I have read, it sure doesn't sound like it.

And yes, my wife did have contact after I found out. Devastating.

with us, it wasn't the affair that nearly killed us. It was all the lying afterwards. That did as much damage as anything.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Thanks for the words.
The WW and I just got home from seeing the MC. I indicated to the MC that I had recently found out that the WW had been lying about the length of the A and that I was getting paranoid about there not being NC. As the wife re-iterated that NC was still in effect, the MC kept telling me to let go of the past and focus on what my goal is; to repair our marriage. I'm thinking WTH!!!
I'm supposed to just accept the word of a liar that is protecting her A and move forward on fixing myself? I was a bit pissed off.
Well anyways, I'm meeting with the same MC tomorrow for IC for the first time so I want to see how that goes. Maybe he was trying to protect the marriage instead of me at that point because the WW was in the room. I don't know anymore. Every time I hear WW say its over between her and the OM, my gut tells me otherwise. At this point I just want to get validation one way or the other so I can move on, and you're right wonderboy, the A is one thing, but the lying and what appears to be defensive mindset towards transparency is causing more problems. Still confused.

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Come drop your story down to the MENZ thread in the "I can relate Forum" Those boys can give some good advice.

So let me get this straight. At MC today, the counselor finds out your wife has been lying to you and him about the affair. And the response from the counselor is for you to move past it? Fuck that shit.

How are you supposed to move past something, when you don't even know the truth about what your are supposed to be moving on from?

What do you know about the OM? Is he married.

When I found out about my wife's affair I called up her AP, then later I called up his wife.

Quickest way to end an affair is to expose it. Talking to the spouse (if there is one) is also a quick way to the truth. And FYI, I wouldn't be so quick to trust your wife's word on whether he is married or not, I would find out on your own.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Shat,

Doesn't sound like your MC knows shit about infidelity. It's getting late here, but wanted to chime in and say you and your wife should read Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass right away. I'd also start digging away - phone records, internet history, skype use, etc. I doubt that the relationship was purely text and voice - I hope I'm wrong, but I'd check for pics and vids.

Sorry you are here mate...WB is right - the Betrayed Men thread down in I Can Relate (part 14 at the moment) has great advice. There's someone there who has BTDT (been there, done that) for just about everything. One thing about affairs, they ain't unique.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Dec 2011
64fleet
Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

What WB said-expose expose expose-The net is the greatest ever-in minutes I knew OMM address, phone # etc.-I couldn't get thru to his BW(her H could do no wrong), but I know my calling her with names/times/dates at least stirred up some stuff at home for him-it ended anyway.
Mine also lied about the length of the A until confronted with phone records indicating otherwise.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5397 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Hi Shattrd - sorry you're here. Many of the guys here, including me, know exactly where you are and how you feel. Listen up. It may very well keep you from being played like a sucker, especially in these first few difficulty weeks/months.

First off, if you go see that MC again tomorrow, let him/her know that if he/she ever puts the blame on you for HER affair you will walk out immediately. You will hear one thing on site over and over and over again - the affair is NOT YOUR FAULT. Marriage issues are 50% but the affair is ALL HERS. Don't take blame for it!

Second, it is time to stand up and get angry. Without that you will continue to fall into her hands - the passive husband who will let his wife get away with anything "out of love." You cannot nice her back into your marriage and until you lay down the law you will never move forward.

Demand no contact. Period. It's not optional. Let her know, in no uncertain terms, that ANY contact will result in an immediate divorce - and you'll take the kids, too. Make it clear that the affair stops - immediately.

Don't take her word that he's not married. Find out. She may well be covering for him. Look him up on Facebook and see if he is or isn't. If he is, find and contact his wife immediately.

You want to find out if they're still in contact? Tomorrow morning, before she gets up, grab her phone and put her computer in your car. Wake her up and tell her that you want her email passwords (or any other password you want). If she doesn't give it to you then you have the answer - and keep her phone and computer.

Stop being nice. Start demanding transparency and remorse. If she can't give it to you then that tells you exactly where she is at.

If you don't get tough then expect several months of trickle truth. You will discover more and more "truths" - including, unfortunately, their sexual meetings - and each revelation will tear you up fresh.

Stand strong. Take care of yourself. Know that others have gone through this (many, including me, have survived and reconciled).

I am wishing you the best...


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

By phone, I did confront the OM a couple of days after d-day. What was funny was I contacted him on the business phone but he said that he would call me right back, which he did, on his cell phone. This gave me his number so I could verify all of the calls and texting. (Very generous of him) He indicated that it was just flirting and no big deal. When I adamantly made my feelings known to him he said it was over and that he didn't want to break up our marriage and that WW still said she loved me and wanted to make it work between us. Didn't mean much coming from him. I asked him if he was married and he said no. So I asked him how he knew that it was no big deal what they were doing if he couldn't relate to being married. That shut him up. All he could say at the end of the conversation was instead of yelling at him I should turn the mirror on myself. Well that sent me over the edge. I'm sick of thinking about this. Still trying to determine my next step.

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Sorry you find yourself here. My story is a lot different than yours but really, they're all all just different proteins in the same lump of shit.

First off, your marriage counselor is a hack and needs to be fired. If you take their advice, sweep this under the rug and trust that your wife is REALLYREALYREEEEAAALLLLLLLLYYYYY sorry and won't do it again, you'll be back here with us in a few months or years when she does it again. She has a ton of hard work to do in order to be a safe partner for you and to have a counselor indirectly validate her behavior (and pretending that an affair is a symptom of the marriage rather than a symptom of your wife being fucked up in the head is absolutely validation of her choices) and lay some of the blame on you all but guarantees the failure of your reconciliation.

Second, I see you trying to take responsibility for your wife's affair. I think we all did that at first. It's part of the bargaining stage of grief, where if maybe we were better, she wouldn't have sought comfort with another man. That's bullshit. I'm sure you weren't, aren't and never will be perfect. She probably isn't either. You didn't cheat and you absolutely did not cause her to do it either. When I found out about my wife's affair, I tried incredibly hard to fix every flaw in myself that she cited as a reason why she was driven to cheat. None of that worked. She didn't cheat because I wasn't good enough. She cheated because she was really screwed up for a variety of reasons. With time, you'll come to understand this in your situation too but for now, please trust me when I tell you that you didn't cause this, you can't control it and you can't fix it. All of that is on her, 100%.

Lastly, and I hate to say this, be prepared for this to be the tip of the iceberg and be ready for her to give you the truth in little bits and pieces, trying to see how little she can give you in order to protect herself. Be ready for the possibility of physical contact during this affair. Be ready for the possibility of the revelation of others. Be ready for more pain than you can possibly imagine, even at this point.

Reconciliation is possible. In my case, it wasn't in the cards and although I desperately wanted it at first, with a little time and distance I am glad things worked out this way. If you end up in my shoes, please trust that it isn't the end of the world. That said, it is possible for people to change. It is possible for your wife to turn into a better person. It's going to require a ton of work by her and a metric shitload of endurance from both of you.

Please take care of yourself and feel free to join us in the Betrayed Men thread in the I Can Relate forum below.


Posts: 1731 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
struggling3
Member
Member # 34671
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

R
egardless, betrayal is betrayal whether an EA or a PA. It's the lying that is going to doom the relationship.

This literally took my breath away and gave me instant anxiety. So weird for that extreme reaction on an otherwise really good day. I'd say that statement struck a major cord with me :(


Me - BS 55
H - WS 57/very remorseful and supportive
Kids 29, 26, 22
D-Day 8-5-11
discovered 4 month long EA
R - slow and steady but very optimistic

Posts: 318 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

As wonderboy said you just can't nice her back into the marriage.
Look at it another way; fueled by her resentment of you because of your supposed personality defects, she is deep in an exciting, romantic affair with a guy who has absolutely no faults and listens to all her complaints about you and the marriage.

She doesn't want to lose her marriage even is she thinks her affair was justified. So she examines your mood , reactions and desire to reconcile. From this she reasons she doesn't have to give up her affair, she can have her marriage and the OM too. This is based on your desperate need to win her back, forgive and keep your family intact.

Her justification is her resentment; followed by her desire to have the best of both worlds. She figures when its all over she'll just reconcile and like a eager puppy you will admit to all your past sins, and she'll say sorry about the affair, but lets rebuild as long as you put this all behind us and seldom refer to her betrayal.

You have to be prepared to lose it all to win and your attitude will lead to your WW manipulating the situation to her own advantage, with little remorse or guilt.

Have you thought about the possibility that your wife's affair started before she threatened to end the marriage? That it wasn't that you were not being supportive; she was eager to start the relationship with the desirable
OM and created the resentment as justification for screwing around. I call them artificial resentments; created to justify the exciting affair.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Mr. Kite
Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

Every time I hear WW say its over between her and the OM, my gut tells me otherwise.

The heart lies while the brain tries to talk us in or out of things to avoid pain, but the gut is always accurate, at least in my own personal experience. In the midst of my WW's A's she used to tell me I was just paranoid. My heart loved her so my brain would think up reasons to agree with her, but my gut always churned whenever she was around.

the MC kept telling me to let go of the past and focus on what my goal is; to repair our marriage. I'm thinking WTH!!!

We can't let go of the past until we know for sure what happened in the past. How do we forgive someone when we don't know what we're forgiving? My WW has a theory that if we don't talk about it, either what she did will be forgotten by me or it never happened at all. She would be dead wrong.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

OK now. I've definitely thought about your last statement many times. WW told me in June that she has been unhappy (Or as she tells it, miserable) for a couple of years but was afraid to confront me with it because she didn't want to deal with how I'd react. I know now that WW was speaking with OM since at least February so naturally I wonder if, even though she may actually have been unhappy, those senses were heightened, gave her the justification in her mind to start the A. So, I guess I have to ask, where does this revelation put my situation?

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

I would guess that her supposed unhappiness stemmed from her need to justify her affair. Mine told me that she had been unhappy for MONTHS! I figured it was true because she had been treating me like shit for a few months. Turns out , she had been chatting with some dude on the internet during that time and had spent hours writing erotic stories and taking naked pictures of herself with the brand new DSLR I had bought her for Christmas the year before during that time.

She was unhappy because she had to convince herself that she was unhappy. She had to make the fact that she was cheating on me OK. She had to dehumanize me and it somehow had to be my fault.

I suspect that the same is true in your case.


Posts: 1731 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

h0peless - Sounds about right. She has definitely expressed remorse over the first couple of weeks since d-day, but most of the time its because of a new revelation that I bring to light. It seems every time I bring up the betrayal and hurt I feel because of the A, she says she is sooo sorry, but it always seems to end up with her not wanting to take away from what she had been enduring for 2 years. Its kind of like saying "screw the affair", look at what you were doing to me", and that is a load of crap. I'm getting more angry the more I talk about it. Maybe this is bringing me to my senses. 180 anyone?

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

The 180 is great. It should help you to gain some clarity and get your feel under you. It's tough at first but you'll get better with practice.

I think you need to make finding a new MC who is experienced with infidelity a non-negotiable. Is there a waiting period between filing and finalization of divorce where you live? You might also consider that. Nothing like a legal deadline to see whether she is going to shit or get off the pot.


Posts: 1731 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
Dare2Trust
Member
Member # 21183
Default  Posted: 12:50 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

ShattrdDream68,

I agree - you need to find a new MC that knows something about infidelity.

You stated:

Gmail account on her phone that she says she cant access since she doesn't remember the password along with that damn Incognito browsing that makes it impossible to see what she is doing

Since your WW doesn't seem to be able to properly work her own phone...Or remember her password.
THEN, she shouldn't have any problem with you bashing her little phone into pieces, and purchasing her a new one...that you have total ACCESS to, RIGHT?

BASH THAT PHONE to bits...and get WW a new; really simple phone that doesn't have a bunch of "features" that confuse her! OK?

You have every RIGHT to talk about your WW's deceitful affair and how she's hurt you. As for what she's endured in the marriage...I'd suspect a lot of it probably has to do with her guilt from hiding her deceitful affair and her LIES.
Can I ask:
Has your WW been on any trips alone that didn't include you? Does she have a habit of being "absent" from home nights, or weekends? From her current behaviors (Lies about No Contact...and contacting OM during your vacation to Hawaii) - I'd be highly suspicious that she and OM have hooked up together during this 9 month affair.

Welcome to SI,and I'm sincerely sorry for the pain and turmoil you're going through.


Me BS 59
WH 58
Married 19 years
D-Day Nov 3, 2005
Child: Adopted Daughter 21 College Student now

I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.


Posts: 6133 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

The MC saying let go of the past and focus on your goals is correct per se but still so very very wrong.

Imagine you are in a boat that leaks. Your MC is basically telling you to keep on pumping water out of the boat instead of stopping the leak. Granted Ė IF you were on a leaking boat Ė chances are you would have to do both. You would need to pump and once the water gets down below a certain level you go try and fix the leak. If you only pump then at best the journey on the boat will be slow, sluggish and hard with the distinct possibility of eventually sinking.

If the affair is ongoing then thatís not only akin to the boat still leaking. Itís your wife pouring one bucket of water inn for each bucket either of you might pump out.

Itís also true that if you only focus on fixing the leak (focusing on the past) the boat fills with water and sinks. You need to pump a bit (focus on the present Ė the marriage) to make room to find and fix the leak.

I would use that metaphor with your MC. Ask him/her how you should be able to work on a marriage if the other partner MIGHT be putting as much effort into killing it as rebuilding it.

Have you looked at gmail? There are password recovery tools redux for forgot passwords, usernames and so on. Your wife can find the password and access that email account if she wants to (and she probably isÖ).

I am a firm believer in truth and reality. I would suggest the following:

Make it clear to your wife that nobody is forcing her to remain in the marriage. You realize it isnít perfect and that you have your part in the marriage being like it is. You are willing to work on things but ONLY if both of you are committed to make it work. If she doesnít believe it is possible or if she is doing things that have no place within the marriage then itís better to be honest about it and start the work of terminating the marriage in the fairest and most amicable way possible. So if she states she wants to work on the marriage then she better commit to it.
Her decision to have an affair was wrong no matter what. You could be the husband from hell but that would never in any way or form justify her actions.
Then make it clear that as long as you suspect the affair of being ongoing there really isnít much hope. Whatever effort either of you put in is wasted by your suspicion (if she is being honest about NC) or her ongoing contact with OM (if she is still in contact with him).

Tell her what you think is required so you are calmer about NC. Ask her what she suggests. Her ďpromiseĒ isnít good enough. Ask her what assurances she can offer and be realistic on what assurances are valid. At the end of the day then IF she wants to break NC she can and she will and you wonít know about it.
Really hammer the point that you arenít forcing her to remain in the marriage. If she really is so unhappy and really wants to remain in the affair she is welcome to it. But not as your wife.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)

A few years ago i had a work friend who was happily married with 2 kids. Her husband had a few faults, tight with money and a little controlling, but all in all a very good spouse and an excellent father. As far as my friend was concerned those faults were irrelevant, almost endearing; part of his wonderful personality.

Anyway her boss began pursuing her; lots of flattery, validation, praise and grade promotion. eventually she succumbed and an affair started and she got emotionally involved.

Much to BH's astonishment he suddenly got the same tale of her misery, desperate unhappiness for years, intolerance of his controlling behavior and a statement that she was considering leaving as she couldn't take any more of the abuse.

I personally know she was very happy prior to the affair; she used to boast about being married to her soulmate and how he deeply cared for her. Oh, and how very, very lucky and grateful she was to have him in her life.

Just the same as you ShattrdDreams68. Don't beat up on yourself; most of this anger and resentment is manufactured to justify her affair. She has totally convinced herself that her artificial resentment has a firm basis and she won't let go of this belief because that would allow guilt and shame to flood in, and she doesn't want to deal with that; it would destroy her self-image of a good wife and mother.

True remorse can only come when your wife realizes the con-job she has done on herself and how the resentment was a lie to justify the affair. You have to fight to get to this stage, or else put up with her conceited belief that you deserved everything you got.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
flup
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Member # 21259
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Jeez, Shattrd, your situation came about just like mine!

"We need to see MC..." "Been unhappy for years" "Couldn't talk to you about it"

Just. Wow.

I literally was shaking reading your description of your situation... and I could feel every word.

She's trying to protect herself at this point - she thinks that the less she tells you, the less damage that is done. What she doesn't realize is that she's killing any remaining trust, and turning it into resentment for the lying (by omission AND by commission!)

AND! You need to find a different MC! The one you have is shit!

Getting a timeline from your FWW would help you understand what was going on in your life behind your back. In the healing library, there's something in there called "Joseph's Letter". Find that and give that to her to read, and make sure she reads it and digests it. It's difficult for us BS's to convey to our FWW's how this makes us feel - NO ONE understands how it feels to be a BS but a BS. Joseph's letter is a first step to let WS's see what our world looks like.


Me: BS 55
Her: fWW 50

D-Day #1: 12 Aug. 2008. WW's 2nd affair w/college teacher.
D-Day #2: 18 June 2009. Affair #1 with neighbor was fall of 2002 - while I was coping with the fallout from 9/11.
Still trying to R.
22 years married


Posts: 430 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Ohio
ShattrdDreams68
New Member
Member # 40866
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

Well it seems like every article or story that I find online and present to her gets misconstrued and turned around. Example, I e-mailed her a bunch of letters and stories that I had been copying into a word document for my own sanity a couple of days after d-day. Asked her to please read through them and help me. A lot of good letters but one that also happened to reference spying and treating her like a 17 year old daughter. Not my intention, but unfortunately that was all she took from my e-mail. That didn't go as planned.
I'm really concerned that she has already checked out of the marriage. She seems to want to go to therapy but I'm starting to wonder if it is her way of validating her A by saying, "I did everything I could but there was no hope like I thought".
Sorry, kind of negative as I am having a bad day focusing on all of the hurtful comments rather than the positive ones.
I'm so confused, she is still talking about couch shopping and what we are doing for Halloween and the like all while still with the OM via e-mail(or so I think).
Also met with the MC by myself today to express my concerns about how the counciling was going. We did talk about my anxiety at length and about proceeding with the marital analysis before coming to terms with the A and my feeling that it was still continuing. (Thanks Bigger for the sinking boat metaphor, I think the MC got it) He understood my concerns and said his thinking was that he didn't want to disturb the healing process with the WW with issues that we might be making assumptions about since she is saying there is NC. (I'm paraphrasing, but that's how I took it). Anyways, I had a good discussion with him but I'm not sure how its going to translate to our next joint MC. Needless to say, I've scheduled another IC with a different therapist a day before our MC so I can see his take on the issue. In briefly talking to this new IC, he explained to me that it would be very difficult to address the issues in our marriage until I have resolution and closure regarding her A. I was encouraged by that so we will see. Thanks for listening!

Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)

What are you presenting her from online?
She wonít read it because she isnít willing to admit she has a problem.
Let me rephrase that: She thinks the problem is the marriage and the problem in the marriage is you.
So sending her papers and stories to readÖ Itís like sending medicine to someone that knows somebody that might be sick.

Please go back to my last post and follow the advice there.
Until she can commit to the marriage then tell her that issues like couch shopping and next yearís holidays should be put on hold until or unless she commits to the marriage Ė INCLUDING assuring you contact with OM is over.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Topic Posts: 28