User Topic: your parent's marriage
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

I've been wondering how many of us didn't have the best role model of marriage growing up.

My parents divorced when I was 10. He left her for the OW, they've been married 30 years.
Mom was very bitter for a long long time.. he left her high and dry with four little kids. They struggled with money, but I don't remember that part. He was the nurturer and she was the disciplinarian. But I have no idea how they were together.

37 years later Mom is very happy. HE is not.

Husband's parents: still together, she is very resentful, they bicker all the time... she is a hoarder and my children have never been to her house. Apparently it is like a cave now. There is so much denial and rugsweeping I've never seen anything like it.

They were all so young, and so ill-prepared for parenthood. I have sympathy for all of them. Yet their choices have had a profound impact on us... and although the situations may be different, the coping methods are similar...

his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”

Posts: 5269 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Member # 39588
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents met on a blind date, married 3 months later and have been married for 39 years. It hasn't always been easy - my mom is bipolar and my dad was an alcoholic but turned his life around and is the most awesome dad ever. :)

My H's family is dysfuntinal at best. His dad cheated on his mom and married the woman. She had 3 sons and no daughters so she treated H's sisters well but ignored him. His dad did whatever his step-mom wanted. His own mom coped with it all with drugs and alcohol.

Me (BS): 35
Him (fWS): 36
Married 16 years 6 kids ages 15-6
DDay #1 (EA) July '08
DDay #2 (EA/ONS- different OW) May 15, 2013

Finally this is R 8/14/13

"Forgiving is a journey; the deeper the wound, the longer the journey".

Posts: 299 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My Mom had an affair with the pastor of our church for the last 5-6 years of my parents' marriage. I believe it broke up his marriage. My Dad played the doormat for years and then went out and had an affair of his own, divorced my Mom and married the crazy OW two weeks after the divorce was final. My Mom married the pastor two years later.

I hate infidelity.

Posts: 1734 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)


My parents married at 25. Had three boys. Loved and respected each other. From what I know there was no infidelity, but just a very loving marriage. Sadly, Mom passed away at 48.

All three sons have had wife's who had affairs. Both my brothers ended up divorcing their wives.

My wife's family.....her dad had upwards of 20 affair partners, and would often take my wife to their houses to play with the AP's kids while they were doing there thing.

Wife's mom had several affairs as well.

Funny neither one of them supported me when my wife's affair was discovered. It was all my fault and I needed to remember that my wife is a woman who knows what she needs and isn't afraid to go get it.


[This message edited by wonderboy at 12:57 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.

Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents: unhappily married for 27 years. Divorced due to my father's refusal to be treated for severe mental illness that disrupted our home life and our family's reputation in hometown. He then died two years post-D after a short illness. No infidelity on either side. My mother: very rigid, uptight, perfectionist, controlling, and "wore the pants." My father: mentally ill, as aforementioned. Horrible temper; was a rager and a screamer. Extremely antisocial and awkward. Limited affection toward us kids. He and my mother were like oil and water. I have very, very vague memories of them getting along in my early years of life. More than anything, though, I remember them hating each other and treating each other with disrespect and contempt.

XH's parents: divorced when he was in middle school; I think his father had at least one affair and possibly left for OW. Was married several times after XH's mom. She has never been remarried. From what he tells me, they seemed to have a good relationship before the D. Somehow along the way, he learned to be conflict-avoidant in the extreme. As in, if there is ANY disagreement or difference of opinion expressed AT ALL, the relationship is doomed and horrible and "he can't live like this." No idea what happened there; he won't talk about it.

Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10


Posts: 2227 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Member # 29265
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents were happily married until i was 18 (just under 25 years i think). I always wanted to have a marriage like theirs, it looked great. It wasn't until my wh cheated that my mum told me my dad did the when she was pregnant with my brother (who is 6 years older than me).

My wh side is messy. His mum was having an affair, he was a result of the affair but was passed off as her husbands baby for 5 years (i've no idea if he knew) until she left him for his dad. They have both cheated on each other at least once that i know of since being married.

Together 14 yrs
BW - Me
WH - Him
3 Children
DD 20th June 2010 actual affair was early 2008 for roughly 10 wks.

Posts: 246 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
Member # 40852
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents are still married and have been for 42 years. My dad is disabled, my mom refers to him as her soulmate.

My brother's first marriage ended with her cheating.

My husband's parents...they too have been married 40-ish years and are still together. They complain non-stop about each other, my mother in law is emotionally enmeshed with my husband, my husband has daddy issues from his dad not being around much until my husband was in his 20s.

Me: BS
Him: WH ONS/short EA
Married 11 years
Together 15 years
2 children

Posts: 64 | Registered: Oct 2013
Member # 31030
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents divorced when I was 10. He left her for the OW, they've been married 30 years.

Wow--so close to my story. My parents divorced when I was 18. They were married for 26 years. He left her for the OW 12 years younger than him-they had been having an affair for 3 years. He married the OW 3 months after their divorce was final--very painful for not only my mom, but me and my sister too.

My mother was a basket case for many years--very very angry--still is if she has to see my father for any family related event--which happens maybe once a year because of my kids and school stuff. She got married two more times after her divorce from my father. She is currently still married to her 3rd husband and seems really happy. He is a wonderful man and a big bonus, also a very wealthy man, she has financial freedom and peace for the first time in her life so I'm happy about that at least.

My dad is still married to the OW who has gone from the hot blonde with big hair that would get up on the bar and dance--to a conservative frump who hates to socialize and has spent loads of time in counseling and other really way out find your inner self activities--a one point she had a doll that she called Little <insert her name here> that she would rock and hold and say that she was learning to give the little girl in her love that she never got as a child--yeah, really.

The irony is that is one of the main reasons he told my mom he was leaving--she was no fun.

Raising hand--dysfunctional family here too.

BS (Me)
WS (Him)
D-Day 5/29/09
Married 11 yrs, together 16 yrs

Posts: 777 | Registered: Jan 2011
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

When my father M my mother she already had 3 kids from her first M. At one point he had a nervous breakdown and due to money issues was not able to seek help. He became very paranoid which only got worse as he got older.

He started working more and at first it was a town away so he would come home on the weekends. Over time that stretched to hardly ever coming home. On one such occassion I saw him at a pay phone. I was about 13 or 14 at the time and new what it meant. I confronted him and he lied. My mom must have heard my coversation as they D not much longer. He became a major hoarder. Had three storage units across two different states. Still think of him when we watch Storage Wars, or Hoarders.

Upon becomming a BS in January I became very angry at the POS thing dad did my my mom. He died a few years ago, but upon a recent trip to his grave gave him a piece of my mind.

Rarely heard my mom or day say "I love you" and not much physical contact. I can also recall one time when my dad hit my mom. We were in the car with me in the middle, I think my dad did something stupid in the car, mom called him out and he stretched out his arm and hit her. I also felt it! We then tried to eat out and pretend everything was OK.
So my parents M was an example of how not to do it. Somehow mom was able to raise 4 kids with 2 different dead beat dads!

Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 675 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
Member # 38619
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents got married for all of the wrong reasons, Mom wanted to get the hell out of her dysfunctional parents' house and my Dad thought it was time to start a family. Funny thing is that they were happily married for 52 years when my Dad died. My Mom was so heartbroken that she didn't even last a year. I believe I have told this story before but I'll tell it again because I love it so. Even though my parents were not in love when they got married, they promised each other that they would never be alone for Valentine's Day again. Every year for 52 years, my Dad bought roses for my Mom and my Mom made my Dad her famous meatloaf. My Dad died on Feb. 18th of 2008 and my Mom died Feb. 10th of 2009. They continued their tradition of always spending Valentine's Day together!! Of my 6 siblings, only one is D and that was due to domestic violence and not infidelity.

My fWH's parents on the other hand.... His father cheated on his mom so many times it literally made her go bonkers. For 40 years she has only dated one other man, she refuses to go out at night and she won't ever initiate contact with her children. (she also does this weird ass thing with her eyebrows but I'm pretty sure it isn't related to her husband's affairs. SCARY!!!) Every member of my fWH's family has either cheated (repeatedly) or has been cheated on.

"If you're brave enough to say goodbye, life will reward you with a new hello." - Paulo Coehlo

Posts: 407 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: East Coast
Member # 40161
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents will be celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary next year. I always considered their marriage great. They are not huggy kissy overly affectionate but I always knew they loved each other. Sure there were some fights and periods of time when they barely spoke but they got through it because that is what marriage is all about. For better for worse and all that. They are now and have always been comfortable with each other. Maybe that is where my desire for a comfortable safe long term marriage came from. I never saw fireworks and raging passions as necessary more important was caring and respect. I was willing to work through the bad parts of our marriage because that's what you do. So you don't like each other much right now. Push through support each other and it will work out. I guess WH didn't see it that way. As soon as the passion left he found it from someone else.

WH's parents celebrated their 50th this past summer. That was a fun event coming less than a month after dday. Their marriage works for them but I wouldn't call it functional. My FIL is/was short tempered, could be violent and very self centered. I think he has some undisguised issues. Based on his difficulty with interpersonal skills, explosive anger issues when stressed or taken out of his comfort zone I think he may be on the spectrum and never learned coping skills. My MIL runs the household and keeps his routines in check. So much so that FIL doesn't do anything without checking with her and she lays out everything step by step for him so that there are no surprises. There is no physical affection at all in the household ( except with the grand kids). As a result, WH married someone a little like his mom. Strong, independent and codependent enough to take over what ever needed to get done. Then he felt resentful. He didn't want to be his dad. He wanted to be is own man. He craved attention and when it was given to the kids and not to him. He resented it more. He didn't get affection at home growing up so he sought it wherever he could get it and if he wasn't getting enough from one person he went to another. Someone who wasn't his mother. Someone who didn't want anything from him. Someone who didn't take care of him. Someone whose sole purpose was to feed his ego and "desire" him.

[This message edited by roses303 at 1:32 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

Me: BW - 46
Him: WH - 49
MOW: my BFF from college and good friend for 25 yrs
Married 14 years, 2 Tweens
DD: 5/20/13 2 year long EA/PAs (one 7 yrs ago and one this past year)
Status: day by day, in MC, working on R

Posts: 141 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: roses303
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My folks 50+ happy years. No infidelity. My inlaws the same.

Guess I'm the only cheater for miles around in my family.

2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My father cheated on my mom.
She tossed his ass out. He married "Thingy" and I was 12 at this time.
So they were married right at 15 years. Father never in my life after his marriage till i was 18.
Husbands parents celebrated their 50th before his mother passed. DYSFUNCYIONAL! My poor husband was never told by either parent I love you or I am proud of you after we had kids they never babysat or had any one on one with them just sayin weird fn people!
I may not be the best mom or spouse but I am better then both sets of parents.

There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My folks 50+ years together, retired early and travel the world (currently in Uganda!). Fought when we were kids but completely faithful.

H's parents divorced due to infidelity when he was 6. Mother dated married men. Mother's boyfriend abused him. Every other man in his life was a known cheater. He cheated on every girlfriend he had.

Kinda wish I had known all that before this last year! Yikes!

Dday -9/24/2012

Posts: 1751 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
Member # 40769
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents had an amazing story. Love at first sight, 3 beautiful children, I remember laughter and unconditional love and undying respect for eachother. We were all heartbroken as my father passed away after a two year battle with cancer just before they were going to retire and finally get to spend all of their time together, like they always wanted. My mother was a broken mess and so were we for awhile. My father was the father my H never really had.
His family consists of a very ambitious woman who had him at 16 and always seemed to blame him for ruining her life. His real father denied his existence- even though he paid child support for all 18 years- but no contact even now. he thinks e has sisters a few towns away, but doesn't know for sure. My H was raised by dysfunctional grandparents and a teen mom- who eventually turned her life into something amazing professionally and materialistically, but often at the expense of her son. Emotional neglect and controlling behavior- a lot of yelling and deception his entire childhood - married his stepdad when he was 12 and tied to create the perfect family without putting in the emotional work. My H moved out at 17. It has taken years to reconnect with his mom and we are doing well now- but his mom and step dads relationship is admittedly not one of love but of convenience and routine and is now centered around our kids- which is great.
Oh the things our FOOs contribute, yes?

Everyday is a new day, some good, some bad.
Me- BS 39
Him- FWS
14 years- 2 middle school children
DDay- 07-24-2013
NC broken from August 6- 24, 2013
Avalanche of Truth on November 14, 2013
Length of A: June 10th to Dday- with broken NC

Posts: 474 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: East Coast
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My husband's parents were married for 45 years. I wouldn't call it a great marriage. MIL is passive aggressive and a bitch,and FIl was very kind,but a bit pushed around.

My parent's divorced before I was 2. I have only seen my dad twice since then. My mother has been married 5 times. All were abusive..some terribly so(husband #3 shot her in the head...and raped me when I was 15).

My mother had been the OW in her relationship for 8 years. He divorced his wife and they lived together for a few years before they broke up.

I had a lousy example of what a healthy,happy marriage should look like.

FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.

Posts: 7682 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Member # 37725
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents had a wonderful marriage--very loving, and showed it every day through words and actions. They were excellent parents, and I cannot imagine having had a better childhood. I really did win the family lottery!

I also won the in-law lottery. My FWH's parents were warm people, fun to be with, and we got along very well. But...........sometimes I would pick up on some underlying irritation (especially from my MIL to my FIL), and then there were the twin beds. Even though on the outside they seemed solid, I sometimes wonder if my FIL had an affair at some point. I haven't had the courage to ask FWH.

Me: BW, age 66
Him: WH, age 64
Married 19 years
In R.

D-Day: August 14, 2012
9 year LTA with former co-worker and family "friend"/7 years EA+PA, 2 more years EA

Posts: 408 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Connecticut
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents met in college. My dad was my mom's first. They got married right out of college, both became teachers, and were married for 5 years before having children.

Dad cheated on mom growing up. I didn't find out until I was a teenager. I was so devistated- I felt like my parents who were in the process of teaching me how to respect my body and save sex until I was in committed, monogamous relationship, were SUCH hypocrites.

I didn't trust men AT ALL growing up except for my dad. Then, as a young teenager, I learned that I couldn't trust him either. It took me a really long time to work through that.

I don't think people realize how their negative choices have such long-standing impacts on their children.

I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."

Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents married for 17 years, money stress was a regular occurrence but no big fights ever. My Dad had an played a part in my parents D. Dad dissappeared from my life from 12 to 22 when I flew out to see him after college graduation. He never married his OW, but he did marry a very nice woman who is 20 years younger and she came from a very abusive marriage before. My Mom never dated, never re married.

My wifes parents divorced...her dad was an alcoholic, her mom finally had enough and left.

Throw us in the boat of knowing more about what we "didnt want in a marriage" then "what we thought a marriage could be".

Good post...I have wondered about this as well. Statitistics I am familiar with appear to follow the trends of this's repeat family cycles...but there are exceptions.

Here is to us who are trying to be the exception with regards to surviving infidelity.

ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3981 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents celebrated their 50th anniversary this spring. They are European immigrants and definitely had the "stick together" mentality. They never fought in our presence, nor were they very physically demonstrative with each other. Overall, great parents, however, I never learned to deal with conflict, just avoid it, bury any resentments. Hasn't worked out real well for me...

My WH... His mom cheated on his dad while he was in 'Nam and they D. She later was the OW whose AP left his family to marry her. H#2 abandoned WH and his mom when he was 15 due to alcoholism. She later became a LTA OW to another MM. I love MIL dearly, but she certainly planted the seed in my WH that A's are okay if the MM isn't happy! My FIL has been M 5 times to 4 different women. Almost each time, the lady had a son who was WH's age at the time of his D. (Feeling replaced much?) FIL swears he never cheated on any of his W's.

My WH hated being a child of D, so he rationalized that what he was doing was OK, as long as he stayed M and took care of the family. He deserved to be "happy", right? Sigh. Infidelity sucks.

Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 711 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Oh brother my parents were both M'd at the time they met, I guess theirs was an exit A because they immediately left, D'd and moved-in and got M'd.

My mom went on to have 3 more A's

BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents were M almost 55 years. They had violent verbal fights all through it. I hated it as a kid, but it was my 'normal'. I really hated the way my parents fought.

When we had a kid, we told them they couldn't fight while the 3 of us were around. Incredibly, they pretty much stopped fighting when we visited.

W's parent were also M until her mom died. Apparently they didn't raise their voices. One thing I liked about W2b was that we could disagree without attacking the other.

W & I don't fight. We just work out most of our disagreements with mutual respect. Of course, she may have a different view.

I'm 99+% certain my father cheated at least once, when he visited us on business when we lived overseas. That tore me up. (But the temptation was very strong. High-level people used to travel half way around the world just to enjoy the country's sex industry's workers.)

W thinks her dad cheated when he was on a business trip, but I have no idea of the validity of that.

Our son's ILs got married a week before or after we did and are still M. Strange coincidence. (They seem like great people, but I have no knowledge of their relationship.)

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:17 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10357 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

No divorce BUT they should have!
Terrible marriage.
Father a mean asshole, mother put up with it...I have no idea why. I would have left his sorry ass.

Unfortunately, the mean asshole outlived her. She deserved to live at least 1 day free of the asshole.

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 7:44 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 4 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.

Posts: 2122 | Registered: Nov 2011
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Ugh. Reading this makes me feel sad. So many of us from clearly dysfunctional families. No wonder.

My dad cheated on my mom wheb I was a toddler. She has made him payppretty much every day since. Next year will be 50 years for them. I think overall they are haooy. But my mom is definitely in control and doesn't hesitate to make my dad feel like he owes her everything everyday

My dad drinks in excess and I fear isnt as happy as he should be. He really has been a great spouse father and man for the greater part since he cheated.

My h's parents are the definition of dysfunction. Married because they had to, divorced as soon as the boys were out of the house. According to my MIL. whk I know exaggerates her H, my H's dad, hecheated he lied, he stole, all of which I have reservations, but the one thing I don't doubt is homosexual tendencies. He is more of a girl than I am.

So yah dysfunction runs amok.

Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8709 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

So what from what I read, it comes from broken families and fantastic families. I can only take away that I pray that my children aren't on a website asking this question 15 years from now.

My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.

Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Member # 40161
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

superduperwonderboy - I will join you in that prayer!

Me: BW - 46
Him: WH - 49
MOW: my BFF from college and good friend for 25 yrs
Married 14 years, 2 Tweens
DD: 5/20/13 2 year long EA/PAs (one 7 yrs ago and one this past year)
Status: day by day, in MC, working on R

Posts: 141 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: roses303
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

God, I love my parents. They are great role models. Married 40 years, do lots of awesome stuff together. They were always a team, always a united front. I've learned a ton about parenting from them. A ton. They bicker in that sitcom-funny sort of way. They aren't perfect, but they've soldiered on, with a great deal of happiness mixed in.

Mostly, this thread reminds me that we'll probably all scar our kids in some way, which is not to make light of the shitty childhoods. Just that sometimes it is "damned if you do, damned if you don't" - i.e. ensure your kids know how to deal with conflict...but also protect them from conflict lest it make things feel unstable. And a million other tough calls.

Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

I'm the BW. My parents have been happily married for 45 years. They taught me from a young age that being honest with yourself and with the people you love is the most crucial thing for happiness in life. In fact, I often got annoyed at their insistence on the complete truth and the two-by-fours they gave me when I was in denial.

But I internalized those values. I evaluate myself and my behavior constantly, and I know that lies corrupt any relationship.

fWH's parents are both alcoholics. They abused their children emotionally and physically. His mom became an OW when fWH was about 10 and eventually abandoned the family and married OM. (I didn't know this until after d-day.)

fWH learned that the way to handle problems was to lie, deny, and minimize. His mom was such a master of denial that she was able to leave her young children with an alcoholic child abuser and still claim to be a good mother.

She says that he wasn't an alcoholic until after she left, and that he never abused the kids. This despite the fact that both of them hit the kids for years before she left, and she knew about fWH's two suicide attempts due to the abuse.

fWH internalized all kinds of f@cked up values. Rationally, he had good morals, but when things got stressful and emotional, he went back to the lessons of childhood. Never admit anything negative, don't think about difficult things, ignore it and it'll go away, pretend it didn't happen etc.

Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Member # 10798
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents' wedding anniversary is today--they would have been married 58 years. They had their issues but not for one second was there any doubt they loved each other. Neither would have ever so much as looked at another partner. Even though my mom has been gone for almost 13 years my dad has never even thought about dating--I swear he thinks he would still be cheating on her. Both of my brothers are in solid marriages and I doubt infidelity would ever be an issue.

Ex's parents were married forever, they also had issues but still were #1 for each other--at least by the time I entered the family. It was iffy early-on, Ex's father was gone for extended amounts of time on business. Like for 2 and 3 years at a time so who knows. Ex had 2 brothers--all divorced, one was divorced twice. All cheaters and terrible husbands and fathers.

Interestingly enough, even though I knew from the beginning that my ex was a risk, because his parents were still married and seemed a lot like mine, I thought it would eventually work out. God, was I stupid or what???

Act as if what you do matters. It does. William James

Posts: 2126 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Midwest
Member # 40157
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My mother was never married to my bio-father. He split before I was born. I have met him several times, he is a douche. She married my step-dad when I was about 6. They D'd when I was about 13. I don't remember a hell of a lot about my family life. I do know that while I never once saw my mother do drugs, I could have rolled a joint by age 10. She moved me to another state at 14 and got together with a real peach of a guy, they were together less than 4 months when he cheated and we moved to another town in the same state. I visited my family for a couple months and came back to her and her new boyfriend and his 16 yr old son living in my house. I had never met them. Enter several years of dysfunction. I have no idea how I didn't end up knocked up, strung out or sexually assaulted due to a complete lack of supervision.

My wh was born to a 19 yr old mother that was married to his bio-dad for about 5 mins. Despite living within 45 mins of where his bio-dad is, he has never met him. He was essentially given to his grandparents in exchange for an $800 car. He was raised by them, as their son for 99% of his life. They were a fantastic couple. I have never known a man as wonderful as my FIL. They were married 54 years when he passed away and set off a chain reaction that blew apart the entire family and I truly believe caused my current situation because my wh had ZERO coping skills and completely shut me out as a confidant when previously we had been best friends.

I want above almost anything to be that happy old couple. I am struggling this week with my anger and the desire to punch someone in the face but I still want that fantasy and I am praying that it will not be a fantasy for us. Although, at this rate, I may be spending those happy years in a straight jacket.

Me 36- BW
Him 37- WH 6 month EA pushing PA.
DDAY- 7/2/13
Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will. -Gandhi
Pls forgive weird sentences and spelling mistakes, I post from my phone and autocorrect hates me.

Posts: 101 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: US
Member # 22730
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My parents divorced. My mom had an A and then married her alcoholic illiterate AP. I was 12 at the time. Hated her for what she did for many years. We have a good relationship now. She would love the opportunity to be with my dad again but the A was a dealbreaker for him. Damn shame, he never stopped loving her.

I've gotten off the crazy train and I'm loving living life.

Posts: 1409 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Florida
Member # 34118
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Bubble burst.

Me. Amazing parents. Their love and dedication to each other reads like a fairy tale.

Him. (WH) Parental infidelity on behalf of both parents. His Mom, suicide attempts, alcoholic. His Dad. Closet homosexuality. Multiple affairs.

It gets worse.
My WH was sexually abused (Oral sex) at age 7 by his older Brother. His Sister and Mother knew. To this day, his Mother has never acknowledged the abuse. His Sister spoke to Mom at the time of abuse. Husbands affair(s) and his ability to engage in a wholesome, healthy relationship were darn well doomed in his adolescence. Had I know any of this, I would not have married.

Me, BS
Hubby, WS
DDay Fall 2011

Posts: 94 | Registered: Dec 2011
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 12:19 AM, October 11th (Friday)

My parents met on a blind date and have been married for 54 years with the typical Ups/downs. But still married. No cheating that I know of...definitely some dysfunction. My dad used work to "escape." I am certain my mother never thought he was successful enough. She was obsessed with a certain "status" even though she came from fairly humble, working class beginnings. She will never admit to this but I am sure she thought she was hot shit for going to college and marrying a doctor while her siblings never made it out of their small town, never went to college. I think my mom may be bi-polar or some flavor of personality disorder as her moods change on a dime and emotionally, she is disabled. Try to talk with her about what is going on with my marriage...and she changes the subject (to talk about herself...even though she had just gotten done complaining about people who only want to talk about her health problems and how no one ever calls her...well here I was calling her and trying to talk and she ignores me!) and doesn't even attempt to sound empathetic. She also favors my brothers over me (even my H sees this) and probably feels a lot of inadequacy as a parent because one of my brothers is Bi-Polar and has had a very difficult life as a result. However, the two of them have a very weird co dependent dynamic, same with her relationship with my dad. I have accepted the fact that we are never going to have a good relationship. As a parent myself, I know how hard it is but it just makes me even more sad because I think about how much I love my kids and try to communicate with them and I wonder why she was incapable. My mom is also big on keeping secrets (in a harmful way) such as the fact that she has a chronic disease but never told any of her kids this information and I figured it out on my own based on information my dad let slip and I did a search on it.

SAWH's family makes mine seem like Leave It to Beaver. Parents have lived separate lives for 30+ years but still married. Always working long hours in professional careers and leaving my H and his sibling alone at somewhat young ages unsupervised where my H got into trouble for various things and hung out with bad kids. I suspect (not sure but just a theory based on circumstances) that my MIL had an affair and that is what led to the fracture in the relationship as well as my H and his sibling seeing some thing they should not have seen (something violent...not sure to what extent of what the reason behind the violence was...H has been very limited in his willingness to expand on that). No one ever talks about anything in his family, no one addresses the obvious problems. Things like the refrigerator leaking and not working right and no one bothers to get it fixed or replaced (and they have the means to do so...they are just super passive and don't do anything until there is a crisis - does this sound familiar? Hmmm...marriage in trouble, have an affair, wife finds out about affair and then you start to care about the marriage.).

BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 34319
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, October 11th (Friday)

You've got something here. My parents are still married, but there were some tough times (fighting and crying) when I was a teenager and pre teen, and my dad hit 40. I don't know if there was infidelity. There was little physical affection toward each other or towards me.

My husband's parents had a miserable marriage from what we all hear. They divorced when we were in college, but she had been thinking about it for some time. He was emotionally unavailable and did not express affection physically or verbally. He yelled a lot. She is passive aggressive.

WHs brother is a recovery sex addict who lost his marriage to his acting out.

D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful boys in elementary school

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou

Posts: 1479 | Registered: Dec 2011
Member # 40460
Default  Posted: 1:31 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I was also 10 when my dad left for another woman, from his work. He had been cheating on my mom for years. I had to watch her suffer and then deal with his parade of girlfriends for years.

He was so so sad years later when my husband cheated on me. He offered to talk with my husband to talk some sense into him.

I had no role model for a good marriage but I still know how to be faithful and always try to make it better.

But my husband's parents were swingers so.... no role models there either!

Me BS 45, him 48, 15yo DD and 13yo DS
DD#1 1998, DD#2 2004
6 years of TT yields chronicity.
I may never get over it.

Posts: 71 | Registered: Aug 2013
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 1:40 AM, October 11th (Friday)

My parents split up for the first time when I was 13. They got back together and broke up every other year after that. To say my childhood was unstable is an understatement. There was violence and emotional abuse. The violence from my dad emotional from my mom on all of us. I ran out of there and married an abuser I could call my own at 18
Left him just after I turned 21. My dad denies ever cheating on my mom and she cheated back on him. Which I witnessed on a bus while traveling to CA. I married a sweet loving man and pissed it all down the toilet. What a surprise that I'd turn out to be a shitty cheating wife.

[This message edited by babbs at 1:41 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, October 11th (Friday)

these stories are so so sad...

three years ago I had a talk with my Dad, who left my Mom 30 years ago and married his AP. I didn't even have to spell it out, I just said we were having marital trouble. He answered - there's nothing out there that you don't already have at home..


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”

Posts: 5269 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Member # 30024
Happy  Posted: 8:28 AM, October 11th (Friday)

My parent's marriage is the best role model anyone could have. They have been married for 65 years this past September. They are as in love with each today as the day they married. Everyone says how adorable they are, and you can tell by the way they look at each other the love that is there.

My FWH's parents marriage is another story.

BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson

Posts: 9798 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Member # 40219
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Let's see my mom is on her 4th marriage. Though he has stuck around and adopted me and my brother when we were kids. All if my mom's husbands have been abusive in some way. My mom is very self-centured, leans in being emotionally abusive, and has struggled with depression for years. I have heard rumblings that my Dad was sexually abusive to his daughters . He also told me he cheated on his ex wife.

WH's parents are a mess. They were abusive to each other. They cheated on each other. His dad married OW. His mom is emotionally a mess still and very bitter . She used to listen in on WH's dads call with OW. She would take notes then sit next to him and sob. He was maybe 6 or 7. Yes he has issues and I have issues.

We hope to have lots of conversations with our daughters about what not to do before they get married.

BS (34)
WS MisterP (37)
Together 14 1/2 years
D Day 03 Aug 13 EA & PA
D Day #2 01 Sep 13 continued EA & PA with OW
Slowly but surely finding my way.

Posts: 172 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Colorado Springs
Member # 39526
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, October 11th (Friday)

My parents have been happily married for 40 years and no affairs that I know of. I always wanted and had a marriage like theirs until recently. The last couple of years my mother has told me about some of her frustrations with my father always putting work and his parents ahead of her. After my wife and I have realized that I was doing some very similar things. These things were not really reasons for my affair but they were affecting the way I looked at and treated my wife.
My wife's parents have also always been married to each other roughly 35 years. My wife has always suspected that her father had an affair but doesn't know for sure. Last ten years or so her mother has had a mysterious illness that causes her to be dizzy all the time and she pretty much stays in the house all day and abuses prescription drugs to some degree. That said her father is pretty much the only one who has really stuck by her through this, though he has admitted to being frustrated at times.

BS-Her (Lostinthismess)

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 40684
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

My parents had a rocky relationship. They were off and on so many times it made my head spin. They were about ready to file for divorce when my mom was diagnosed with cancer and needed the medical insurance my Dad's job provided. My Dad was a complete ass to her in a lot of ways but he did stick by her in the end and was devastated when she passed away.

My husband's parents have been married for 30+ years. Their relationship leaves a lot to be desired. My FIL is very very lazy and disrespectful (IMHO) to my MIL. My MIL just puts up with it and continues on. Hes also had at least 1 affair that she knows about. Ive also found out that both his grandfathers cheated on their wives.

When I got married I wanted a marriage like my grandparents. They were married for 50+ years. My grandma passed suddenly from a stroke, my grandfather had to sign for them to turn off life support and held her hand while she passed on.He visited her grave every week until he became to ill to know where he even was. Hes buried with her now, just like in life he was always by her side. Its hard to deal with what my husband has done to me when I saw what true love and devotion was in my grandparents.

BS: Me (30)
WS: Husband (31)
Married 8 years, together 9
D-Day: Sept 10, 2013
D-Day2: May 31, 2014
Children: 5, ages 7, 5, 3, 1 and due in September

Leaning towards leaving, no one deserves this pain.

Posts: 205 | Registered: Sep 2013
Member # 40753
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

My parents are still together. They were both married briefly before they met, both had terrible spouses before. My moms 1st H was abusive, my dads 1st W was a greedy whore. Theyve been married for 30 years and together for 32 years. I have a feeling they have experienced infidelity but theyre very happy now.

WHs parents, thats another story. His dad has spent most of Hs life in prison. He is currently in for life and didnt have much to do with H when he was a child. I have a strong feeling that had more to do with his mom that his dad. His mom actually told him after DS4 was born not to talk to his dads side of the family...I wonder why, maybe bc theyre so much more better people that most the people in his moms family. Hs dads family are very very nice, great people and offered several times to take care of H since his mom was terrible. H is a child of infidelity. His dad was married to Hs half sister while he was messing around with Hs single mom. She got pregnant and it was a secret to get together for the kids sake for the first 1.5yrs. Hs mother is a meth head, he was raised bounced between family members when his mother didnt want him for the time being, when she did have boyfriends they beat his mother and cheated on her. Hs mom allowed it and this is what he percieved as normal growing up. At one point he lived in a trailor by himself at the age of 5 while his mom and her BF lived in the shed behind the house in a methed out stupor. That is why H was held back in kindergarten bc he never was made to go to school. He had a terrible child hood and because of that I think his rearing has A LOT to do with his issues. He stll should not have cheated but his mother wasnt a very good example of what happens when you do. As long as she has her dope she didnt care and rugswept just to stay high. Hs first childhood memory is of him being very young watching cartoons in a nasty hotel while his parents had sex and there was a bag of cocaine and a bag of weed on the nightstand. Once his parents finishe dup they loaded him and the drugs into the car and left. Very sad.

He starts IC with a psychologist this Friday and I cant wait for him to realize that he isnt always right and all the things his W has told him are more than likely a little bit true. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when youre subjected to abnormalities that are percieved as normal growing up to tend to think theyre normal as an adult.

[This message edited by suposd2btheonly1 at 5:31 PM, October 13th (Sunday)]

Me: BW 31
Him: WH 30
OW: 22yo whore who is still planning her wedding
Married 3yrs, together 5
4 kids, all boys 14, 11, 4 and 8mos...I hope like hell they don't hurt someone the way he hurt their mama
Dday: August 9, 2013
S, until his head

Posts: 206 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Member # 38805
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

Terrible marriage. My dad was an alcoholic and my mum an antisocial personality. He drank, she was violent and tortured him, they stayed together anyway, he died, she lived.

Posts: 308 | Registered: Mar 2013
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

My parents were high school sweethearts and they have been married since 1968. So 46 years soon, I think.

I actually think they have been a great example for most people who know them. My dad worked away from home all of my life, so they went long stretches apart. They didn't always get along. I don't think my father was always the easiest man to be married to. I know he could be jealous and he had strong ideas about the role of a woman in a marriage - that was early on, though. They worked through A LOT during their years together. Now, in their sixties and mostly retired, they love each and enjoy each other so much. My dad got over a lot of his stuff, and I think having daughters was really good for him. He supports my mom in every way. Cooks all the dinners and does all the laundry. He loves and adores her in a really special way.

The thing is, it wasn't always like that. So watching them taught me that relationships don't always have to be perfect to be worthwhile, and that is such an important message that I am grateful to them for giving me, my sister, and all of us who know them.

My WS's parents divorced when he was very young, and infidelity was just one of the reasons. There was other abuse, as well. His mother raised five kids by herself while his father started a new family in the next town over. He certainly didn't learn the same lessons about life, love and relationships that I did - not then, anyway.

I feel really blessed to have the family I do. We are very close, very loving, and only a little disfunctional. I'm lucky.

Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.

Posts: 1678 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
Member # 31611
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

No infidelity with either set of parents.

My parent's were married for 25 years until he passed away. They had their ups and downs, but worked through them and were generally happy. Mom had been married before Dad and he was killed in the WW2. She dated after Dad passed but never found another man she wanted to marry. She died 20 years after Dad.

My in-laws were married for almost 60 years. Both were alcoholic and they spent the last 30 years getting more and more hateful to each other. They were okay when I first met them, but my MIL had a hard time when the children left and tried to kill her self numerous times and the last time left her incapacitated for the last 30 years. FIL stayed and took care of her even though they were unhappy/hateful with each other. FIL felt mad at her for wrecking their retirement as he retired just 3 years after she was incapacitated and he never was able to have the retirement of his dreams. When she passed, he was 90 and couldn't travel and enjoy it. She was mad at him because of his being mad at her. She felt that she wasn't responsible for her condition as she never meant it to happen. Both became hateful to their children and grand children and that hurt my husband very much. His mom had told him she loved him, but his father had not and had never told him he approved of him or was proud of his accomplishments. WH had always been trying to please him. When they died within 6 months of each other is when WH started having his crisis.

[This message edited by purplebreeze at 7:41 PM, October 13th (Sunday)]

me 64
WH 66
married 44 years
DD Jan 16 2011

Posts: 357 | Registered: Mar 2011
Member # 32324
Default  Posted: 2:21 AM, October 14th (Monday)

My in-laws just celebrated their 33rd anniversary. They seem happy every time we've gone to visit.

My parents divorced when I was 4. Dad cheated a lot and mom did it once, but that wasn't the main reason they split.

Mom married H#2 when I was 5. He is the antichrist - emotionally, physically and sexually abusive. They divorced when I was 14.

Dad married W#2 when I was 11. She made it clear she hated my brother and me and his refusal to stand up for his own kids was the reason we cut off contact with my dad for a long time. They divorced when I was 15.

Mom is currently married to H#3. I've never met him, but considering he didn't tell my mom that he is HIV positive before having unprotected sex with her repeatedly, I really don't like him. Plus he spends so much money that they're constantly broke.

[This message edited by frigidfire86 at 2:23 AM, October 14th (Monday)]

Me: 28
Him: 29
Married 8 years
Daughter, 7 yrs old
D-Day: 05/08/2011

Posts: 628 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Germany
Member # 31522
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Oh my. So many bad marriages.

My parents were married for 21 years. No fighting, I grew up in a quiet household.
My parents were good to us.

My mother started having an affair with her sister's husband.

My parents divorced.
My mother is now living with her sister's husband.
They have been together for almost 15 years.

Did this play a role in why I attracted a cheater in my life?

[This message edited by Audrina at 10:24 AM, October 14th (Monday)]

Me (betrayed): 35

Posts: 266 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Canada
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Did this play a role in why I attracted a cheater in my life?

I think we're all wondering this....

his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”

Posts: 5269 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Member # 39560
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, October 14th (Monday)

My parents celebrated their 50th anniversary this spring. They are European immigrants and definitely had the "stick together" mentality. They never fought in our presence, nor were they very physically demonstrative with each other. Overall, great parents, however, I never learned to deal with conflict, just avoid it, bury any resentments. Hasn't worked out real well for me...

^^^^This. Exactly the same for me. Only difference is the date of 50th anniversary which just passed at end of September.

My dad was WS. I discovered the affair when I was 16 years old. I knew before my Mom did. It continued for several years. It was pure hell on earth living in that household. I suddenly found myself being the "mother" to my 14 year old sister. My Mom decided I should be her confidante as she tried to cope with my Dad's affair. My Dad also came to me when he needed to confide information about the OW/affair/wanting to divorce my mom. HORRIBLE. I would hope no one else ever puts their kids in that same position I was put into.

To say they rug-swept the entire thing is an understatement. They tried to pretend to my sister and I that everything was "fine" but would then come to ME for advice. I was a teenager. Dysfunctional to the core.

Me: 45, him: 54
together 18 years
DDay1 March 2013, Dday2 April 27, 2013, Dday3 June 1, 2013
We are in R and trying to make it
Never lose yourself trying to hang onto someone who doesn't care about losing you.

Posts: 252 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Northeast
Exit Wounds
Member # 32811
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, October 14th (Monday)

My parents were married for 48 year. My dad died she was by my dad's side. My father cheated on my mother from the day they met until the day he was physically not able to cheat on her anymore. She was "OK" with it. Said "all men cheat."

She say she loved him, I believe her. Death separated them physically but emotionally and spiritually they will be together forever. I know he loved her dearly too...

Posts: 2486 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: With my dad...and my dog...
Member # 40787
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, October 14th (Monday)

My mom and dad got married young. The problem started with the fact that my mom is gay. When their family friend needed to move to town they invited her to stay with them and then eventually invited her into their bed. Then, without my mom and without her consent which then led to her being told to get out. In the end, it was better for her, but it wasn't great for us (my step mom is emotionally abusive and very controlling). Took me a while to reclaim my self-esteem.

My husband looked at his family as being whole and 'normal'. They were an arranged marriage. He now suspects his dad may have cheated. He also was very damaged by the harsh criticism of his dad and the lack of positive affirmations (no hugging, telling him he was loved, etc). His family doesn't discuss issues, they just pretend they aren't there.

Me: 39
WH: 42
DDay:Sep 19 2013 (only TT of EA)
Oct 4th 2013 revealed PA through snooping.
Marred 16 years, together for 20. Looking to R at this time. We have awesome kids (12/14).

Posts: 273 | Registered: Sep 2013
Topic Posts: 51