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User Topic: Strip Clubs and Lap Dances
islesguy
Member
Member # 38090
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

My BS and I have had many discussions about strip clubs. On several business events over an 8 year span I went to strip clubs and had lap dances at 2 of them. I didn't find strip clubs to be disgusting and even though my wife told me how she felt about strip clubs and strippers I chose to ignore her and go anyway because this seemed like a normal activity for the rest of the married guys I worked with. I feel like I formed my casual opinion about strip clubs based on my view of the other guys and not based on my wife's statements. I wasn't someone who craved lap dances but I did have two when they were offered to me. My opinion about the lap dances was that they were not such a big deal and certainly not cheating. My opinions have certainly changed on all of the above. I am interested to know how other way wards viewed strip clubs and strippers.


Me: WH
Father of 3 beautiful girls

* I am a RS (Recovering Scumbag)
* Do as I say, NOT as I did. :-(
* I acknowledge the grace I have received. I know do not deserve it.


Posts: 225 | Registered: Jan 2013
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

I think it's a form of legalized prostitution. But that's just me.

You're going to get on a stage with a tiny piece of butt-floss and two smiley face stickers on your ta-tas, wiggling your junk in people's faces. For cash.

And how many of them offer "back room" specials or after hours romps? Then someone introduces you to heroin. And then you're hooked. Doing anything you can for a fix. And "medical school" goes out the window.

It's sad that girls and women get to a point where they think so little of themselves that they'll serve themselves up like a steak on the buffet.

My aunt was an "escort". Ya know, just a good girl, spending a couple hours in the evening as a "companion" for men. Dinner and a movie. Riiiiiight. Hopped in the car one night with a guy. She instantly recognized him. Asked him if she knew who she was. He didn't. Turns out, he was her ex-pastor from when she was a little girl. Wouldn't ya know, the guy stopped the car and made her get out. Now, if they were really just going for a nice dinner, why that kind of reaction? Isn't everything above board?

Anyway, she's a total crack whore now. Shame really. She was beautiful. I remember her kindness and warmth when I was little. She could have done anything she wanted, could have been anything she wanted to be. One step out as an escort for "quick, easy money" and now she sleeps with random Johns so she can get her next fix.

Anyway, that's my opinion.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6227 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
TimeToManUp
Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

Personally, I find them... Gross. And sad. The whole concept has always been uncomfortable to me. I can see single men going to strip clubs, and even then I feel like it should be late-teens through like 30ish. Married men, absolutely not.

Like I said, I find it sad. Sad that women subject themselves to it. Sad that men feel compelled to paticipate. I feel like the men get off on the dominant aspect of it, y'know "Come shake your tits and there's a buck in it for ya, skank." That may sound crass and like a generalization, but with my limited experience at strip clubs and the conversations I've been a part of or overheard, there seems to be at least one of those guys in the group. And old guys at the strip club bring the same dominance with a whole new creepy touch of "Look what I can get this whore to do for money" angle.

And the girls are typically doing it for the money "paying their way through college..." We've all heard the old story. And it's true... You get addicted to money. And the real world doesn't pay as well as being a stripper, so why bother finishing up or pursuing that finance degree? Maybe because nobody wants to see an old stripper, but you could be a banker for the rest of your life. So when stripping stops paying the bills, then what?

Like I said... These are all just my opinions. And I think strip clubs are gross. I also feel like more guys go out of peer pressure than actually WANT to go. Many of my friends have confessed to wanting to bypass strip clubs for their bachelor parties.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
islesguy
Member
Member # 38090
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Can a moderator remove the stop sign? I posted this with stop on inadvertently yesterday.


Me: WH
Father of 3 beautiful girls

* I am a RS (Recovering Scumbag)
* Do as I say, NOT as I did. :-(
* I acknowledge the grace I have received. I know do not deserve it.


Posts: 225 | Registered: Jan 2013
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

the stop sign has been removed, please be more careful in the future.

Thank you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197750 | Registered: May 2002
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I have no problem with bare bodies.
It is the extras in the back rooms as stated an lap dances etc.
It saddens me that women young beautiful women throw their life away to be oogled


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

And my spouse takes great pride in the fact he has never been in one. Wish my boys could say the same.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I don't have that much of an issue with strip clubs. I have only been to a couple and never had a lab dance or wittnessed any back room areas so that part of it may be a bit much.

I don't see much difference though between strip clubs and say reading 50 shades or heck many R rated movies. If you take issue with strip clubs I think you should be consistent on other forms of entertainment that are similar.

However, if boundaries have previously been crossed, I can very much see how this can be a condition a BS would expect in going forward.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 481 | Registered: Nov 2012
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I think the difference between strip clubs and porn is the actual physical presence and contact with a real woman.

My husband frequented strip clubs for a significant chunk of time. He spent more money than I can account for---and it wasn't on watching women dance.

Depending on where you live, lap dances can involve a good deal of contact. And then, there's the VIP room.

You know, when I first learned he went to a club, it didn't bother me even a little. It was actually part of the culture of the town we were in, and not unusual to entertain business colleagues in a club. (It wasn't the real norm, but it didn't deviate much from the norm.)

But it escalated, and ...well, let's just say that the STDs I have had in my life came from strippers.

I think they are a mutually exploitative venture that benefits primarily the club owners---and causes a LOT of damage, not just to the women involved, but to women (and families) at home and the men they purport to "serve."


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8682 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I disagree that an erotic book is similar to strip clubs or porn. No real people are harmed in the writing of a book. It's fiction.

I didn't read 50 Shades, but at least in the Romance Genre, infidelity is condemned. Sex is about mutual pleasure, not exploitation or objectification. Prostitution is never the happy ending. The ideal relationship has respect, understanding, passion and loyalty.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I don't see much difference though between strip clubs and say reading 50 shades or heck many R rated movies.
That's something that can be debated 100 different ways till sundown. I sorta agree with you on it. It's all nudity and sexually charged and whatever. The thing is, stripping, is literally in your face, reach out and touch, kind of real. STD's are real and passed from a cheating spouse to their unsuspecting spouse at home. I feel porn is the same thing. It's not fiction. Those girls are really doing that in front of the camera. They're really being exploited. They're really getting STDs. All for a little bit of money. And the ones who profit the most are not the girls themselves but the owners of the Boobie Bungalow and Big Johnson Film Productions.

Books and R-rated movies? Ehhh, fuzzy line there. Books are pure fiction. Nobody is exploited, nobody is "used" in the writing of a book. R-rated movies, the sex isn't actually real. It's soft lights, unique camera angles, and slurpy kisses. That's it. Yes the intent is there, yes you get a semi-visual of "what's really going on", but not really.

I dunno. To each their own. I think that people are biased against some more than others based on personal experience. If your spouse has cheated on you with a toothpick, I suspect there would be an uprising against toothpicks. kwim?

For the record, I haven't read the 50 Shades books, I don't read trashy novels, we have a "no porn" policy in our marriage, and if I watch movies, it's with my children, which puts the rating at PG at its highest.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6227 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Boobie Bungalow

t/j I think I need to get premium and use my one name change. End t/j


But on the topic of this post, I just don't see the awesomeness of it. And I don't just mean as a women commenting on a man going. I don't get the all male revues either. However, this is something that has to be discussed between the SOs. No, "surprise! I had a woman's vajay jay in my face but don't worry, I didn't touch it so I wasn't cheating. So what's for dinner, honey." I think this is easily something to eliminate from your life if your SO finds it offensive.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 2, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011

Posts: 1719 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

The thing is, stripping, is literally in your face, reach out and touch, kind of real

Again, I do not have much experience with strip clubs however the couple that I have been to had a big sweaty guy twice the size of me standing there waiting to bounce anyone out that even touched. I suspect rules are different at different strip clubs.

I dunno. To each their own. I think that people are biased against some more than others based on personal experience. If your spouse has cheated on you with a toothpick, I suspect there would be an uprising against toothpicks. kwim?

100% agree, my point is that the difference between a strip club and say watching magic mike or reading a trashy novel is not that different at least in my opinion.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 481 | Registered: Nov 2012
Too_Trusting
Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I'm a BS who's exH spent thousands of dollars at strip clubs and on lap dances. After D-day, when I discovered he had been using prostitutes for YEARS, he told me that he decided to use hookers when he realized he could get more for his $$ than at strip clubs.

I'm not saying that every person that visits strip clubs will escalate to prostitutes; just relating what my exH said his reasoning was. He was dropping 500-700 at strip clubs. He could get call girl for $300.


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2466 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I think strip clubs and porn are alot different. I'm not thrilled with porn, but I accept it with very few complaints as long as the guy is honest that he watches it. But, I consider strip clubs to be cheating. The reason is that one is on a TV and you can't touch, and the other is a real girl right in front of you. Even if you can't grab the girl because of a bouncer, it's still a real girl grinding her naked body against my man. That crosses a line with me that porn does not.

I dated a man once who thought that bringing me to a strip club would show me that it wasn't as bad as I had pictured in my head. I went trying to have an open mind. While there, I went to get a drink. Turned around, and saw him getting a lap dance. The woman wasn't touching him and he wasn't grabbing her, but the look on his face literally disgusted me. I ran to the bathroom and threw up. I had watched this same man watching porn before, and did not have the same reaction. So, they are very different to me.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 10:21 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

In my past I dated an ex-stripper and an active stripper.

The ex-stripper did it out of necessity while she was in a rough point in her life. It caused her harm. She has lived with shame ever since.

The active stripper loved it. She had many opportunities for other careers but enjoyed doing what she loved.

Both of them told me that the hands off policy was strictly enforced. They would get in trouble as well as the patron.

I don't really enjoy them. I have gone to work events at them because I had to. Its a waste of time and money that I could be spending with my family. I would not choose to go unless I went with my SO.

[This message edited by Chicho at 11:24 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2584 | Registered: Aug 2012
stupidgurl
Member
Member # 36763
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I would like to know the point of strip clubs.

A man goes to the club, watches the woman gyrate, his wang gets hard but he does not come???

Isn't the whole point to getting hard to come??

So guys are going there, getting hard and coming somewhere. At home with wifey? Poor wifey she is getting humped by a guy who is picturing this other girl. She is nothing but the come receptacle at that point because the women at the strip joint are the object of desire, that is infidelity of the mind. And disrespectful to the wife.

OR

He bangs a stripper/hooker.

That is why women have a problem with strip clubs.

I know I phrased it as a question and then answered my own question.

Oh and the alternative to coming home and being with wife or sleeping with the stripper, is jerking it. I guess the jerking is fine to a certain age, and only if he is satisfying his wife enough that she don't want none.

I guess my real question is why waste your money when you can pay your wife she can dress up all skanky, she will be your object for the night, and you get to have sex with her as much as you want with no cheating, no bad feelings. I would rather get my H's $ and ogling than another woman.

Strip clubs are bad, but it is even worse when you have a woman who is against it. Why not just make her happy and not do it! You have to decide- create more resentment and destruction or create happiness and trust again.

BTW I was a stripper for a month when I turned 18, the men ALWAYS try to have sex with you! The older the more manipulative. Married or single. The night I gave in and gave two men hand jobs is when I quit, I knew what was in the road ahead, and then on top of that they bunch up the money so it looks like alot, but I got shortchanged most of the time. Fuck that job, not as cool as most girls think and my self esteem go worse every time, I did not feel sexy I felt gross.


me WW/BW-31
him BH/WH- 31

2002/3 (him) EA

PA(me)-Nov 2007

R


Posts: 131 | Registered: Sep 2012
islesguy
Member
Member # 38090
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Please don't read my original post wrong, I am not trying to advocate for strip clubs or that they are a good idea. I went because it seemed like the "guy" thing to do at least with the guys that I was with and I didn't get how wrong they were because I took on the same casual viewpoint about them as the other guys I was with. This is not putting blame on them, I was an adult and I made my own decision to go and to accept lap dances when they were offered to me.

I had a wife who was against them and I chose to go along with the guys rather than respect my wife and her feelings about strip clubs. My problem was that I thought only about the people who were in front of me at the time and my desire to be one of the guys and not about how my wife felt about those places even though she specifically told me how they disgusted her. Through talking with her about these experiences, I have truly come to disgust them as well and I look differently at the guys who I work with who I know still go to strip clubs.


Me: WH
Father of 3 beautiful girls

* I am a RS (Recovering Scumbag)
* Do as I say, NOT as I did. :-(
* I acknowledge the grace I have received. I know do not deserve it.


Posts: 225 | Registered: Jan 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Strip clubs are bad, but it is even worse when you have a woman who is against it. Why not just make her happy and not do it! You have to decide- create more resentment and destruction or create happiness and trust again.

Yeah, I dated a guy once that when I told him it was either me or strip clubs, he chose the strip clubs. He was unwilling to give that up. Just amazes me that he'd rather be at a strip club than in a relationship. I guess maybe he wanted to find a girl that would tolerate it. And I know plenty of women that don't have problems with it.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Never understood how a strip club is seen as not crossing boundaries. I suppose because of the way it's framed? Framed as an "entertainment experience" instead of something real? I can't presume what others think. My H isn't interested in strip clubs because, in his words, the one he went to when he was younger was "boring".

I'd think strip clubs are more serious than porn, literotica, and rated R movies because they involve real women. A real naked woman is dancing around, dancing on your lap, waving her private parts for her patron to see. A real woman. You can see a real naked woman at home, why go out to see another one?

Porn would be next on that list for me. While there's not a real naked woman in person, there is a real naked one on the screen. The viewer can see every detail about her body, can see what the inside of her body looks like. Can see a real woman that's in all likelihood hotter than his wife. Can watch this woman actually have sex. Who cares that she's probably faking it? The sex act itself is VERY real. They are ACTUALLY having sex.

Literotica is next, because while it's explicit, you're not watching real people have sex or seeing real people naked. And finally rated R films - real people yes, real sex acts, no.

But that's just my scale. YMMV.

Now, having said all that, at this point I almost want my H to at least take up porn again. I'm tired of feeling like I'm not enough for him. It'd be great if he went back to watching porn, because then at least I'd know he gets to see women he's attracted to and I'm not standing in the way of his sexual enjoyment (though if he ever did watch porn, he'd hide it, so I'd have no way of knowing unless I stumbled on it again). Probably my insecurities talking, but that's why I'm so happy there are strip clubs in GTA5. He can't say I chain him down anymore. He can't say I deny him variety. That he chooses not to go in the GTA5 strip clubs is his choice (though he was a lot more sexual on the days when we went to them in the game, so I know they have an effect on him), but he can never argue that I deprived him of the option. He has his freedom.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 1:16 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
EasyDoesIt
Member
Member # 29514
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I have friends whose husbands go to them and some of them are OK with it, some not. However, if it's something that your wife doesn't want you to do, you shouldn't do it. Period.

If your spouse feels like it's a betrayal, then it's a betrayal. I'm big on the boiling a frog approach. Maybe men don't go into there thinking that they're going to physically stray, but it certainly happens.

My niece was an exotic dancer and I know a lot of what went on wasn't what she went to work to do. It just kind of goes that way. :( She's really turned her life around, is married now, teaching, and has two beautiful girls. She's a wonderful mother and she hates that she spent part of her life like that. I think it's part of why she's such a damn good mother. She certainly doesn't want that life for her daughters.


Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3692 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia
kickboxer
Member
Member # 39858
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I wasn't ever bugged by strip clubs until I had 3 daughters.

Then I realized the men who hang out there are people just like my WH -- fathers, husbands...

It makes me sick to think about a bunch of men oogling over one of my girls.

Can't stand the concept of them now!!


BW - 42 (Me)
WH - 39 (2 ONS, 6m EA)
Married 13 years, 3 children
DD: 7/13/13
Status: Rugsweeping, I guess.

Posts: 248 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere Out There
mellie99
Member
Member # 39712
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I have mixed feelings on the subject...

As a married woman I find them disgusting and it bothers me that my WH felt the need to frequent strip clubs. I don't like the idea of random women rubbing their bodies on my H and him coming home covered in God knows what...that's nasty. However, I have to admit there were times where I was relieved to know he was out in a club and not doing something else inappropriate...that is a sad state of affairs on my part and unacceptable but it's the truth. I'm not fond of porn either but I'd rather have him home than out and about; our agreement was that I didn't want to see/hear it, and he has respected that and actually thrown out a lot of his old videos and magazines (though I know he still watches it online). I've reached a point now that I feel like he needs to cut out the clubs completely because he clearly doesn't know how to behave himself (correction: CHOOSES not to behave himself) when placed in tempting situations. I don't think he's ever done anything with a stripper because he thinks they're 'beneath him' (yet he'll pay to see them; go figure), but being his judgment has gotten worse over the years God only knows what slippery slope he might be headed down.


Me: BW (32)
Him: WS (31)-Multiple ONS
Married: 1/3/05 Together since 5/2002
D-Day #1-3/2009 (4 years after the fact)
D-Day #2 3/2013(he confessed to 3 more ONS, 1 the month I found out I was pregnant)

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: United States
RightTrack
Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Your spouse's view on whether or not strip clubs are cheating is really the only opinion that counts.

Posts: 621 | Registered: Sep 2012
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I don't like them my H says he doesn't like them. I am the WS and I'm curious if my H is now frequenting places like this to stick it to me without me knowing.... Wait...what? what happened I blacked out haha. No I'm not a fan if my H decided to start frequenting these places for jollies it would be a problem.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
Bobbi_sue
Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, October 11th (Friday)

The ex-stripper did it out of necessity while she was in a rough point in her life. It caused her harm. She has lived with shame ever since.
I think this is rare. Of course I have not done studies on thousands of ex-strippers to know for sure, but have talked to some, and my H has talked to some, and it seems to me even though they are "ex" strippers, they go far to defend the profession as just dancing and necessity. But the ones I know can't get enough of flaunting themselves, flirting, sexual comments to men for attention, etc.

One that worked at my H's place of employment was an ex stripper with a Master's Degree and she was a single mom raising a child. And of course she did it for the money to get through school (according to her).

The only problem is not only was there no shame and embarassment, she took every opportunity she could to tell people she did that in the past. Her teenaged son knew it too and she saw no problem with letting him know. Everyone at work knew and so did all the adult students (an adult technical school).

And later she got pregnant and would not tell anyone who the father of her baby was (my guess is she probably didn't even know). My H thinks it was one of the male students at the school where they worked.

My XH used to convince me this was a "normal" guy thing and there were a few times I knew he went and didn't have a problem with it. But I later learned that my XH was a prostitute addict and I have also learned more about what goes on at that those places and I definitely find them disgusting and my H knows it is beyond any question I would not tolerate him going to one.

I guess my real question is why waste your money when you can pay your wife she can dress up all skanky, she will be your object for the night, and you get to have sex with her as much as you want with no cheating, no bad feelings. I would rather get my H's $ and ogling than another woman.

Ouch. My XH didn't pay me for dressing up skanky but the memories when he wanted me to dress like a hooker make me ILL! (And it still didn't stop him from paying real hookers. I could never disrepsect myself to do any disgusting thing he wanted with no regard for my own needs, and pretend he was the greatest stud on earth; I absolutely believe they did that and he believed them...that he was the greatest stud ever).

My current H does not like strip clubs. He has been "with the guys" in his single days and he did not respect the women and thought they were gross and told some of them that, and got thrown out two different times in his life. (not for touching or anything like that, but for telling them they needed to do something else in life and that was not respectful, and they didn't even "look that good." Yes he told them that, and worse.

Maybe some would condemn him for that too, but when he laughs about it, I laugh too. I learned many years ago, if I want others to respect me, I have to respect myself first. I live by that. And I don't feel obligated to respect women who don't respect themselves. In my view that definitely includes strippers and prostitutes.

Do I have some pity for the backgrounds that might have led them there? Well to some extent, yes, but I hold all adults accountable for who they are and the choices they make in their current lives, regardless of their background and childhoods. I know my my XH's background and childhood is what ruined him as well, but I still divorced him and have no regrets about doing so.


Posts: 5741 | Registered: Apr 2006
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, October 11th (Friday)

BS here...but this is a common issue for all men. Society does allow this more then ever. My view has totally changed on this and pornography since my DD. My wife was even believing such societal views on this type of behavior. Its not strip clubs, but I have gone out on business functions to restaurants that use scantily clad waitresss to serve the meal...it is in the same vein as strip clubs minus lap dances. And I thought it is just what guys do...was not harmful as no sex was taking place...just guys hanging out.

It really degrades your soul and affects all of your life. I can tell you from personal experience my journey away from pornography is like I am a new person.

My husband has never been to one, wish I could say the same about my sons.

This is a temptation almost exclusively for men. Visiting with my wife on this...it is my opinion that women just don't really grasp the temptation it is...don't fully grasp how drawn our eyes are to women every day. I don't believe women are wired that way...thank goodness because look how ugly most men are! Seriously though....just because men don't get hard and cum doesn't me they don't enjoy looking....men are wired to look. It takes much more work to bounce your eyes and not look. Just because something comes natural doesn't mean it is right. It appears via the female responses to this post that I am correct in stating most women cant comprehend how the male brain works. I know it seems stupid and childish and fruitless...and it is all of those things...but it still is real.

We have young daughters...will find ways to educate them. Our concern right now is about our puberty entering nephews. Todays technology makes porn as easy to find as the Lego site. I got a hold of porn via my dads stash when I was their age....I was ill equipped to deal with it, but knew I enjoyed looking at it. it felt good but was so bad...just didn't know.

A bit of a soap box...sorry about that.

I cry almost daily....at first over my wifes choice to commit adultery....now those tears are also from the sadness of my own actions within our marriage.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:41 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, October 11th (Friday)

My wife knew I watched porn, watched some with me even. She too thought it was okay and not cheating.

I see similar woman posting that attitude on here.

I am not all-knowing...but wonder if these women would be willing to do a trial of sorts. Ask their men to stop viewing all porn for 30 days...only sexual gratification came from time spent with you.

This was a first step for me. After 30 days I felt like a new person. After 4 months it is amazing!

I should say I did this on my own...my wife was okay with the idea, but not overly supportive or negative either. So commitment level has something to do with it...but think it would still be a good experiment to do.

What could you loose...its just 1 month.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
1devastedmom
Member
Member # 38399
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I don't know how to quote but I agree completely with Blakesteele. My husband read Every Man's Battle and he has become a completely new man. No porn for 6 months and he said he never thought he'd be able to. We don't even watch movies with nudity in them.


Me BS: 42
WH: 44
DDay- April 17, 2013
Married 22 years
3 children: 18, 15 & 9
Reconcilling

Posts: 138 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: 1devastedmom
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I just don't like strip clubs at all- I have no problem with them existing (I won't picket!) but I walked in one on a stag weekend with a load of mates- lasted about 5 seconds and had to leave- I think they're seedy.

Sorry that's just my opinion although I'm not sure how helpful it is!

I think when it comes to strip clubs, lap dancers, porn, whatever- husbands/wives should be consulted and listened to.

I have read "50 Sheds of Grey" and thought it was brilliant. I don't think I'm the intended demographic for "50 Shades of Grey"!


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
ionlytalkedtoher
Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, October 11th (Friday)

from a woman--they are gross.

My H was taken to one once and did whatever they do there I guess. But it was a job meeting there. What i don't get is why any business is conducted in this type of place? Its gross. how that jobs expect men to go these places. now this was early on in our marriage. The second time he was taken there...he backed out of it...and soon after he was fired.

There is pressure from the guy world to go to these types of places to fit in at work and it shouldn't be this way.


Posts: 262 | Registered: Jul 2013
Dance4Me
Member
Member # 26284
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I was never a wife that minded porn or strip clubs pre-A as long it was done in moderation and not used as a crutch. What I didn't know, is that my H and his very professional coworkers from his last job had frequented strip clubs which included lap dances more times than I had ever known. After a MC session, my H admitted to me that he was even propositioned by a very young lap dancer, and being funny, he tried negotiate the price!! He never left or had sex with her - it was supposedly hilarious to his male coworkers - I didn't find it funny at all! In fact - I actually jumped out of the slow moving car after he admitted that fact - not my smartest move as I still have a scar on my left knee.

I also want to add and show what kind of pleasing wife I once was. On my Hs 40th birthday, we were out with another couple and my H asked me (a few times that night) to go with him to a strip club and have a lap dance by a chick so that he could watch. Being that accomading wife I once was, I gave in and did so. It was probably one of the most humiliating and uncomfortable things I have ever done and I am no prude! I now happy to report (scarcasm) that I know what it is like to be brought back into that dark, red lit room where multiple men were getting lap dances all around me - lots of girating and grinding went on while I sat frozen and embarrassed! My H thought, at that time, it was the hottest thing everrrrr!! Lucky him!

I look back and realize that my H in his last VP job was involved in a culture of corrupt morality. It wasn't a big deal to these men to engage in this kind of behavior especially when traveling - they deserved the party atmosphere because they worked soooo very hard and earned it!! I see now how my Hs past pre-dday behavior coupled in with his own FOO issues could lead him down that slippery slope of betrayal. For my H, looking back now makes him cringe, especially knowing that these girls were close to our son's age (he didn't think about that fact while engaging in that behavior.). He also sees how visitng these establishments support a culture of degrading and objectifying women - especially since he now has a 17 year old daughter of his own!

My H now works at a newer job that is totally professional - he is the Director of a department and can't even imagine bringing his coworkers to strip clubs. I guess it takes hitting rock bottom and breaking my heart to learn a thing or two...funny how that happens!

[This message edited by Dance4Me at 11:32 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


On Dday -BS-me 41 FWS-him 42
Married 19 years 3 kids (16,13,9)
D-Day 10/2/09- TT til Feb. 2010

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken.” -CS Lewis


Posts: 1040 | Registered: Nov 2009
TimeToManUp
Member
Member # 37538
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I am not all-knowing...but wonder if these women would be willing to do a trial of sorts. Ask their men to stop viewing all porn for 30 days...only sexual gratification came from time spent with you.

I've been doing this for several months. Never did strip clubs anyway, no porn... No "taking care of myself" either. Any sexual desires are satisfied by my BW. She is present and a participant every time. I like to think it has made our sex even more intense and special. Our sex life was never an issue before, but I think it's even better now.


I know we're worth it.
WH (Me-33)
BW (tattoodchinadoll-31)
D-Day: 12/22/11
Together 15 years, married for 10.
Three daughters, 8, 4 and 2.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: New Jersey
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I watched some porn (2 times to be exact) when I was in my twenties. we got all worked up and had some great sex so I considered it a little gross but, harmless. fast forward 30 years and I now know better. it was exactly what a previous poster said in that even though my husband was having sex with me, in his mind, he was having sex with the star of the porn show.

I've done a good bit of reading over the last 7 months since finding out that my husband is a sex addict. Porn, strip clubs are one in the same. Doesn't matter if its pixelated or skin to skin because the results are the same. Seeing a naked women, the average male brain begins to excrete dopamine, epinephrine and serotonin. The same as fight or flight syndrome. It's a fight between logic and natural instincts and the latter is a powerful pull.

It's objectification at its finest. Women are not looked at for who they are. They are objects. Of course, in these settings they actually encourage this thinking because they have a goal to get to that wallet and extract the contents of it. It usually works.if you are skeptical you should just do a google search to see how much money has been spent in the past year relating to the sex industry. I guarantee you it's more than last year.

If men have no intentions "enjoying" that sort of "entertainment" why are they so open to letting their minds go there? It has had devastating ramifications for this family and I know we are not the only ones. IMHO, the one you married should be the only naked body that you need to see.


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2013
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, October 11th (Friday)

There has been some discussion on here about giving their husbands "freedom" to view porn.

I get that....and respect that.

With regards what porn did to me....it took my freedom away. It is true sin creates bondage....I feel like a free man.

God help us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
breakingpoint
Member
Member # 40963
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

I think what is considered "cheating" is more about how individuals feel about the act and less about clear cut lines. Cheating is any emotional or sexual activity that is either a secret or violates the trust of a partner. In your marriage, it violates her trust and feeling of safety, so it is wrong.

My husband looked at porn and went to strip clubs and then hid it. I have felt very betrayed and violated. I don't even have a prudish attitude toward either of these things, and am not against enjoying them with my husband. My problem stems from sexual activity that is hidden, secret, and takes away from the intimacy that we share.


Posts: 115 | Registered: Oct 2013
cluless
Member
Member # 40538
Exclaimation  Posted: 2:32 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

Strip clubs are receptacles to lure girls/young women with a fraction of money that these greedy owners receive to degrade themselves. Women with any self-respect wouldn't put themselves into a position like this. They end up with drug addictions and HAVE to keep dancing. Men who frequent these type of establishments as well as view porn regularly, begin to look at women as "objects." There is no love, no intimacy, it's all about getting your release.

It's an affair without the touching and emotional involvement. Our society (although governed mostly by men) has made this a rite of passage and a guy thing. It's a load of crap and it's a damn shame that we till have this, for our next generation of little girls to fall victim to. IF you're a guy and you CAN'T get a woman to love you, or do that for you because she loves you and wants you for you. THEN take a look in the mirror and figure it out.


WH 57
BS 55 -- Me!
LTA EA/PA 1-1/2 years.
D-Day 8-12, 2nd D-Day 9-13, 3rd D-Day 10-13 (stopped counting tt still coming in)
Married 17 yrs, together 20.
MC & IC has been a JOKE.

Status: In careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels and starti


Posts: 166 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oceanside
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 2:59 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

cluless -

Please make sure to follow the guidelines when posting.

GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

Thank you.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
ShockedErica11
Member
Member # 37550
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

For a long time, I viewed strip clubs negatively. I didn't like them and thought they were horrible places. Went to one at 18 with a friend, talked to the girls and still didn't like them.

Then came WH, and his damn near "those were the days" wistfulness and excitement at going to strip clubs that me, being stupid and going against what I knew in my heart, went with him to show him how understanding of him I could be. I am so angry that I continuously humiliated myself that way knowing what I know about those places, knowing how he deluded himself about those women and how objectifying WH and a lit of people are about strippers.

And this post made me realize a few things: during the second half of WH's sexcapades with the slut, we celebrated a mutual friend's birthday at a strip club. So while I'm humiliating myself to try to get him to notice me, he was having an A.

At this point, I want to say f*** him. It's been a really bad week.


Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 3:41 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

ShockedErica11...

I realize that this is a very trigger topic, but please don't vent in the WS forum.

Thank you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197750 | Registered: May 2002
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, October 16th (Wednesday)

t/j
With regards what porn did to me....it took my freedom away. It is true sin creates bondage....I feel like a free man.
blakesteel, Mr. HBH says the same thing. Since he has quit all forms of sex that don't directly include me, he says he feels free for the first time since he first viewed porn. He knew he felt bad about what he was doing, but now he realizes just how it affected every area of his life. He feels like a new man, who got rid of a ton of bricks.

HBH


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
MediumRare
Member
Member # 35128
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

To the original poster- strip clubs will always be a divisive topic since strippers and stripclubs vary wildly by geographic location.

For example, a high-end strip club in Las Vegas with 100 high-end girls, no contact dances only, expensive cover charge will have a totally different experience and quality of employees than say Ralphs Boob Shack off Highway 62 with 7 "dancers", VIP rooms with beds/doors, and one dancer featuring all her teeth.

So everyone is going to argue based on their own biases/experiences or at least what they've heard of other's biases/experiences.

That being said, it really doesn't matter what you feel about strip clubs. If it's a relationship boundary, then that is what it is. It could be reversed that you don't like Tupperware parties.. i.e. you believe women use them to gossip and tell secrets about each other's husbands and whether or not this is the case with your wife's parties, you can express you don't feel comfortable and her participation is an issue for you.

This can go for book clubs, sporting events, golf trips, fitness conventions, etc. etc. etc. In relationships, there will always be individual activities that a spouse may not feel comfortable about. It's not about proving them "wrong" moreso than it is to understand it bothers them or makes them feel bad, so we then have to decide if we can find a happy middle ground, or decide if we can make sacrifices to keep the marriage happy and comfortable.


BS (ME): 44
WS(HER): 42
9 years
OM#1- 20-something loser, stole bunch of my things after she had sex with him in our bed (no condoms, STDs)
OM#2- 24 year old, unemployed loser, lives with mom & dad
DDay 1/2012
NC 3/20/2012
SGASDay 4/1/2012

Posts: 716 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: California
circe
Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, October 18th (Friday)

I think what is considered "cheating" is more about how individuals feel about the act and less about clear cut lines. Cheating is any emotional or sexual activity that is either a secret or violates the trust of a partner. In your marriage, it violates her trust and feeling of safety, so it is wrong.

I totally agree. THIS is the big point. If it's porn, or strip clubs, or erotic literature or a too familiar conversation about the marriage with a neighbor.

What we need to focus on is trust and safety. Your BS's trust in you and in your marriage, and your BS's safety being vulnerable, loving and trusting in your marriage.

If strip clubs FEEL like a violation to our spouse, then they are a violation in the marriage.

Personally I've never had a problem with them, have gone to a few with my husband in the US and while traveling. They are very different experiences depending on where you go. I've seen "dancers" just walking back and forth chewing gum and looking bored as hell, and I've seen performers who are really talented and appear to be enjoying their time on stage. I've never seen a lap dance, but maybe I have and it's just not what I picture when I hear the phrase - I wouldn't be comfortable watching a naked woman on my H's lap, no, but he knows that. We haven't gone in years because we're kind of not in that adventurous place anymore. Because of FW/BH's (we are mad hatters) affair I have a different set of triggers entirely. And it's up to FWH to respect the boundaries of our marriage, whatever we build them to be.

[This message edited by circe at 6:35 AM, October 18th (Friday)]


Posts: 3192 | Registered: Mar 2005
Whalers11
Member
Member # 27544
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

I have no idea if WxSO went to strip clubs while we were together - it's possible he could have a few times while out with the guys, but I don't know for sure.

My problem with strip clubs is not the naked bodies - it's the money spent. I wouldn't care if he went if he wasn't spending any money there. But I'd prefer he not spend any money on those activities.

Porn was not an issue for me either - had we R'd, I wouldn't have changed my stance on that either. I have always been ok with it and don't believe it contributed to his affair in anyway.


Me: BGF - 33
Together 11+ years - not married, no children.
D-Day: 2/9/2010
OC Born: 10/9/2010
Status: He chose OW/OC and left immediately.

Posts: 2230 | Registered: Feb 2010
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

My wxh used to go to a local strip club. When he came home, he was always horny.

It seemed to me like he was using me as a masturbation tool. It's like I wasn't even a part of the act.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7643 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
RegretfulHusband
Member
Member # 41873
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, January 10th (Friday)

I hate to bump this post all the way back to the top, given that it hasn't been commented on in some time, but I wanted to weigh in specifically on this thread.

Warning: Details.

I never saw the danger of strip clubs. Then came DDay #1 - which involved a hand job from a stripper in a VIP room with a slight bit of oral for lube.

The INSTANT it was over, I was absolutely disgusted with everything about myself. I haven't been able to even think about going to one ever again. Here's the thing, my wife and I went a few times a while back, and it was fun, but uncomfortable.

I never had a problem going to one before, but you can be damned sure I'll never go to one again. I was in Chicago on a wife-approved Business Trip, and the guys I was out with suggested going to a club.

I instantly said "Nope. Won't do it. There aren't many things I'm not willing to do with the guys, but I will NOT go to any kind of strip club". If they wanted to go fine, but I would head back to the hotel and chill, and this was while I was pretty drunk - which for me, is a big deal. It was one of the first times since we've been working together for the last 1.5 years where I really FELT a difference in myself, and was proud of myself.

In any case, what I really wanted to say was that I second MediumRare and Circe, that it's all about the boundaries you set in your own relationship. If Strip Clubs are no big deal for you, then hey, have fun. BUT if there is any hint of trouble, OR if there has ever been a Wayward, it should be automatic that the clubs become a no-no, simply based on their history.

I have been to a few clubs in my life, and NEVER thought about doing what happened that night. I also NEVER would have thought that stuff actually happened right there in the rooms, but it did, and it does.

Now I think about that night and it's just plain disgusting. Never, ever again.

I learned from my stupidity and immaturity. It wasn't planned or on purpose, but it wasn't a mistake.

In any case, I hope a real life example of what can happen can help some of you that may have been on the fence about this subject.


Me: FWH, 34
Her: BS, 33
Married: 6 years
Together: 10+ years
Kids: 2 Boys under 5

DDay1: 7+ years ago
DDay2: 1.5 years ago

"The truth shall set you free, but first it will make you miserable."


Posts: 142 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: United States
RightTrack
Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

Our state is one of those dance-only, no contact states. My WH and I have had a few fun nights out in the city going to strip clubs. Here there are always a few other women and couples/groups out together. If he was going out on his own and hiding it or dropping loads of our money I would consider that cheating.

Posts: 621 | Registered: Sep 2012
DessieLessie
New Member
Member # 39991
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

My H was taken to one once and did whatever they do there I guess. But it was a job meeting there. What i don't get is why any business is conducted in this type of place? Its gross. how that jobs expect men to go these places. now this was early on in our marriage. The second time he was taken there...he backed out of it...and soon after he was fired.

A few people have said that going to strip clubs is part of the work culture and this just boggles my mind. Wtf? How can this be acceptable? Don't these places have any women working there?

I swear, if I worked at a job that organised meetings at a strip joint I'd lodge a formal complaint about it. That's just not on.

My opinion on strip clubs are that they are the 'gateway drug' to cheating. Most men I have known who admit to frequenting them also cheated on their wives. On top of that, they are seedy and sad and encourage men to have a distorted and unhealthy view of women.


Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

FWH was into this.

He considers it to be his gateway drug.

And as such, I am not completely non-judgemntal.

I would ask anyone, not so much what is bad about this, but exactly what is GOOD about this? What is so amazing about this that you want to insert it into your marriage and family? What???

Why is it so irresistable???

This is what I do not understand.

Whether it is an image or a real person, when it comes to the intimate things.....the things that are supposed to be amazing and special and just between you and your spouse....why insert ANYONE else???? Why? Ever?

I would implore anyone and everyone, especially those of us who have been through this, to excise this from your life. To finally, once and for all, make this a special thing between you and your spouse. Bc it is awesome if it is special. But otherwise, it is just "scratching an itch"....


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1081 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
Topic Posts: 49