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Just Found Out
User Topic: I confronted her this morning.
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I knew she had an affair a couple years ago. She told me it was over. I had a feeling it wasn't so I looked at her phone. Turns out it had been on going on the whole time.

I packed all of her things into the car and told her to leave. She refused. She told me some of what was going on. I made her call him and tell him it's over. Seems they were getting together tonight.

Now she wants to get a baby sitter so we can go out tonight. I of course want to say yes but I don't.

I really don't know what to do. Where do I go from here? How do I ever trust her again?

I don't even know what to post here.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

(((mad)))
You dont have to do anything right now.
Find yourself a good counselor that deals with infidelity for YOU. Read here in the healing library. Drink plenty of water and exercise if possible. It will help you sleep at night.
Keep posting we are here.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I don't do well with just sitting. I have to do something. That's how I work. I need to channel this anger into something.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Dallas2
Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

(((hugs))

Take care of yourself. Eat, drink, try to sleep. see a counselor for you and an attorney. I am not saying you are headed for divorce. Just knowledge is so helpful.

Sounds like you have kids. Take care of them too..

I really am sorry that you find yourself here as BS but here is the best place to be for support.


Me

Posts: 828 | Registered: Apr 2010
Exit Wounds
Member
Member # 32811
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

I need to channel this anger into something.
I understand! Do you belong to a gym? Can you go work out for a few days...like hours at a time? Can you go running or biking? I think exercise can help tremendously in times like this!
How about talking with a good friend? Or councilor? Maybe take a short break from work? -Let's say a couple of days plus the weekend and just relax at home or go camping with a buddy?

Think of yourself now. BE SELFISH but be there for your kiddos. They don't know what's going on and you need to protect them.

Give yourself time. DO NOT MAKE ANY DECISIONS NOW!

She took two years from you. Now you take your time FOR you!

Keep posting, we have been there...


Posts: 2486 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: With my dad...and my dog...
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Welcome madd. I am so sorry you found yourself here, but you are now among friends.

The best advice I can give you, is to NOT lose the momentum you have going right now by softening your stance. She cheated, you forgave, and she disrespected you AGAIN by continuing the A for years. That's some major disrespect IMO.

Great move by packing her bags and telling her to leave, but...you did not enforce it. Every time you say you are going to do something and don't follow through, you are teaching them that they have the upper hand, and that they can talk, smooze, manipulate, and worm their way out of anything.

You will never have more influence over the future outcome of your situation than you do at this very moment. You MUST strike while the iron is hot, and in my situation SHOCK and AWE was what worked for me.

And for me that meant getting a lawyer, finding out what my rights were, and immediately separating. Nothing sends a message of 'DON'T EVEN THINK YOU CAN FUCK WITH ME' like that does.

Filing for D, separating, etc...does NOT mean you eventually have to follow through and D. You can stop the process at any point, but, in order to send the above message, and to protect yourself financially, seeing a lawyer is of paramount importance.

So you say you need to 'do' something, well, start making a list of good lawyers and start making appointments. Definitely meet with several, their initial consultation fees are little to none.

Also, go get tested for STD's and insist your WW do the same. Make sure she has her docs office release her results to YOU. Remember, cheaters are consummate liars, don't trust anything she says, you want written proof.

I'm so sorry for your pain.

[This message edited by painpaingoaway at 8:42 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7092 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Her not leaving means only one thing....she's unremorseful. If she truly cared about you and your feelings she would agree to your requests and disappear for a while and respect your request. I don't think getting a babysitter and going out for one night is some way she thinks all will be better.

She doesn't get it nor probably will. She doesn't really understand the pain you are in nor does she respect you right now. Since she won't leave I would tell her you are contacting an attorney that will legally make her leave. You can't be nice to her. Believe me when I say many of us have tried that route and it doesn't work. At the very least kick her out of the bedroom and let her sleep elsewhere. And no...you cannot trust her anymore. She kept seeing this guy even after you knew about it. There can't be any worst disrespect than that. If she won't agree to immediate NC and working on your relationship, then you know what you need to do. Mine was unremorseful so I have a lot of experience with that type of person.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1470 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

1. Get a lawyer understand your options going forward and how to protect yourself.
2. Both of you need to get tested for STD's ASAP.
3. Find a good IC for each of you.
4. Go the to healing library and start reading. its a gold mine of coping strageties and information.

5. take care of yourself. This shit sucks and this is hers to own. You didnt cause her to cheat, she need to own her actions fully.
LHAP?


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1908 | Registered: Nov 2010
TheClimb
Member
Member # 25895
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

All very good advice and I highly recommend the hard ass approach as trying to love them back just keeps you in pain and them with an overinflated ego.

Is the OM married or involved? If so, the very best thing you can do right now is contact the other betrayed spouse and let them know what is going on. If you have copies of the phone records or other proof of the affair, give it to the other spouse. DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE that you are going to contact the other spouse as she will warn the OM.

We have all felt the pain that you are feeling now. You are going to be alright.


"That which can be destroyed by the truth should be" P.C. Hodgell

Posts: 465 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Southern Maryland
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

There are kids involved.

She took our son to school and then came home instead of going to work. She said she was sorry which she didn't do before. We talked some. I made her promise on the kids not to have any contact with him ever again.

She says she wants to make things work. She says it's the sex that's the problem. I know this and I know why but I really don't know how to solve that. Nor doI know how to let her have a life and not keep her locked up.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

Very sorry for what you are going through. You are not alone. There are lots of guys who have gone through this as well (unfortunately).

You said:

She says it's the sex that's the problem.

Not knowing the details there I will say this. Sex is not the problem, her inability to honor and cherish the promises she has made to you is the problem. And I'm willing to bet the farm the even deeper problem is her need to be validated by someone else. If she can't commit to you and you alone then I think you know where you stand with her. Protect yourself legally, emotionaly, and financially. Make your kids the top priority here and don't accept anything she tells you as truth at this point. It sucks to realize that but its a must at this time.

In the "I Can Relate" section there is a thread for betrayed men. Come on over and you can get a lot of good advice from other guys who may have been in similar circumstances.

Stay strong, you will get through this.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Mr. Kite
Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

maddmurph - It doesn't seem like it at the moment but you will get through this. We're here for you.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

She has been lying to you for years and right now she's desperate to NOT lose her pretty little world with you.

She did not cheat on you because of your sex life. So what, if you suffered some injury that prevented you from having sex it would be ok for her to cheat?
She cheated because she is broken and she needs to go into IC to figure out why she did this. Swearing on your children is not enough. She broke her vows to you. She's been lying for years. Sadly, you just can not trust her.
I would make her write a no contact letter. She then needs to give you access to all accounts, passwords, emails, etc. Put a gps tracker on her phone. She has to be 100% transparent.
Now, the OM - is he married? If so, tell his wife. That will blow the lid off of the affair because they're fueled by the secrecy.

Stay strong. We're all here for you.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

also...

I knew she had an affair a couple years ago. She told me it was over.

More reasons why her word cannot be trusted. She has already proven before that she doesn't honor her word. Actions from her need to be speaking the loudest right now.

I'll second what cliffside said. Blow the roof off that affair by telling the other man's spouse if he has one.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Murph,

I read your thread in the other forum. There is one magic trick that ALL WW's play on us.

It's the disappearing power trick. She has more than likely performed a trick that makes you believe that you have no power and she has ALL the power in the marriage.

At this point she does have all the power and she will use EVERY trick her bag to keep it. She will placate and give you whatever you want to keep you from standing your ground. If you try to pull away she will run to you. She will do anything to keep you close. She does this because it ensures her power. She will play on your crushed emotions by giving you a tidbit here and there to keep you "on the line". She will say things like "how could you do that to the kids". She will push every button and pull every lever to keep her power.

I was shocked at what my wife did to manipulate me during this time. Any time I tried to pull away she got closer. I was so in need of comfort I fell for it.

On a long enough timeline it quits working but not until the manipulation has dragged your emotions down the road long enough to harden you to it.

I said all that to say this... Your wife is still cheating and has taken it "underground". She continued last time and she will again. Her acting like nothing is wrong and wanting to go out is proof of that. Tell her this, "I am going out and you are free to do the same but I'm not going out with you. If you do this she will FREAK OUT. I guarantee it. She will sense that as her power slipping and will rail against you for it.

After everything I did and all the pain I was finally done with the shenanigans. I did this. I wrote out a "minimum performance standard" for my wife. I listed every unacceptable behavior of hers on it.

I gave her the following stipulation. If you do anything on the list I am divorcing you, Period. This is non-negotiable and once it starts it's irrevocable. I said us staying married will be your choice. Do anything on the list and you are choosing not to be married. Simple as that. I told her I was fine with any decision she chose to make.

I planted my flag and made myself crystal clear. That was it. That was my line in the sand. We are still married and she has been the perfect wife ever since.

I think the hard part is getting to the place where either decision for her ends with you being OK and happy. Once you get there though it's life changing.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

maddmurph, I'm so sorry you're here with us. This is very likely going to be the most difficult, painful, confusing thing you've ever gone through, and for that I am very sorry. Know that all of us have been through it and that the advice people will give you comes from our own terrible experience. A lot of "I wish I had done that when it happened to me" sorts of advice. Some of it is going to be scary and you aren't going to act on all of it. That's OK, we were all there. Please do your best to absorb it, though, and please don't be scared off by it. We're here to help.

That said, here are some things that if I were you, I would do immediately.

1. If the other man is married, please tell his wife in a gentle and understanding manner. Do this with evidence and do it right away. Do not let your wife know what you're doing, just do it.

2. Go to the grocery store and stock up on various forms of liquid nutrition. You may not feel like eating much for a while and I don't want you to end up like me after my Dday. Please take care of your body.

3. Find some sort of physical outlet for your stress and anger. For me, it was riding my motorcycle and walking my dogs. This helps.

4. Don't believe a word your wife says right now. Watch for her actions. They need to be consistent and moving towards a place where she is becoming a safe partner for you.

I'm really sorry you're here. Please take care of yourself. We're here if you need us.


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

A little perspective, maturity and less blame shifting is needed on the part of your WW...

According to your WW there were problems with sex in the marriage and that motivated her to have an A?

Well guess what! Here is what she needs to know...Her dumb As%% just created the most monumental problem there ever can be between two people in a relationship..

That is BETRAYAL...

Now each of you is gonna have to deal with the betrayal and why and how she could make such a choice to lie and cheat behind your back..

This issue for your relationship trumps any and all other problems that were ever present..

How she deals with the fallout and aftermath of her A, lies, cover-ups will determine whether or not you even want her in your life at all..

For some people the damage caused by A, subsequent lies, trickle truth, lack of remorse is irrevocable and a deal breaker

Any and all problems in the marriage are petty in comparison to the one monumental problem that she just created..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 12:42 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1242 | Registered: Nov 2011
DefiledRage
Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

1) Gather your evidence now, phone records, fb posts logs, messages, emails, anything you can get. And demand access to all of it, especially before she thinks she can clean it up. Doesn't mean you have to use it, but having the security of having as much as I could gather gave me a little peace in a situation where peace is impossible to come by.
2) It's your call but the last thing I would do is go to dinner with her. She wants to smooth it over. She will do everything in her power to make it disappear as quickly as possible. Smoothing it over at this point has nothing to do with making you feel any better, its about her going into full blown self-protection mode.
3) I know it hard, I'm a "have to do something about it now" kind of person too, but you HAVE to take your time. Your emotions are to close to the surface. Make sure your rational in all your actions.
4) STAY HERE ON SI. Even though I'm sure there are a lot of differences in our situations; Your first sentence...dead on with what happened to me. After dday one she just took the affair further underground. My point, your not alone. You will find support here.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 12:54 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 554 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

My issue is the kids. How do I protect them? How do I explain that mommy isn't going to be there? How do I fix my marriage?

I don't want to just lawyer up. I don't want to lock her up either. How do I keep tabs on her?


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

*SEX* is not a valid reason to cheat on someone. There are many people who are married to partners that are physically impaired. Like Veterans that are injured fighting for our country.

There is no valid *REASON* (meaning external circumstance) that give good cause for someone to betray their partner. The source of cheating comes from the mind of the cheater. Cheating is a conscious and deliberate decision. All the *reasons* given are pretty much smoke that masks a internal bad decision making process.

I would also like to second RyeBread's invitation to join the discussing in the *I can relate* forum for Betrayed Men. Theres allot of wisdom there and you will get it from guys that have been EXACTLY where you are.

For now I would suggest you get full disclosure and perhaps a timeline of the LTA from your WW. You need this so that you will know exactly what you are dealing with.

Also and very important you need to get full access to every email account every cell phone text every way of communication your WW has or might use to contact OM. These things rarely end when we think they do. This is a long term relationship and its very common that they may want to meet for *one last time to say good bye*. And sometimes that meeting doesnt really end things.

Remember you are not to blame for your WW decision to cheat.

Stay strong.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

What the other posters have mentioned,
WW's refusal to leave the marital home does indicate a lack of empathy and consideration for your feelings..It makes my blood boil when I read of these WS's that are behaving like mine..

I am also dealing with this same issue..My WH is un remorseful but he refuses to leave the house , I will need to force him out legally..I am not in a position to be able to do that at the moment and I am the one who wants to leave..I am getting my ducks in a row..I have already separated myself financially from him as much as possible.. We sleep in separate bedrooms, we live like roommates emotionally and financially..

If these un remorseful WS's refuse to leave the family home the least we can do is pull away mentally..

Take care of yourself and kiddos and let her fend for herself..

Kick WW out of the bedroom.. Remain civil or polite with her, but cease to do anything for her that shows that you care about her as a marriage partner..

Plan and carry on your own daily life and schedule without her being a factor in it.. For example if you are going to the park, WW doesn't need to know where you and the kids are going or what time you can be expected back home..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:04 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1242 | Registered: Nov 2011
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

She says it's the sex that's the problem.

Sorry you are going through this, murph. She can justify her bad behavior anyway she wants, but the real problem is her lack of character and integrity.


Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1450 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

My issue is the kids. How do I protect them? How do I explain that mommy isn't going to be there?

As a child of divorce due to infidelity, you can't. The best you can do is be their safe place, their sounding board. Don't badmouth their mother but tell them the age appropriate truth. There will be damage to your children. Your wife has ensured that. The best you can do is to be their rock, to model upstanding behavior for them and to make sure they know that you love them.

How do I fix my marriage?

The cold, hard truth is that you can't, at least not right now. Your wife is broken and she is the one who broke your marriage. She has a ton of work to do to fix herself before the two of you can even begin to fix the marriage. You have power over you but not her. She needs to fix herself.

I don't want to just lawyer up. I don't want to lock her up either. How do I keep tabs on her?

Sometimes playing hardball is the only way to snap them out of it. She wants you in her life. She also wants to have an affair. She wants to eat cake. This is the part where you have the power to stop it. Either she stops her affair and works on fixing herself or you're gone. You aren't doing yourself or your kids any favors if you stay with her while she's disrespecting you like this and it sort of sounds like she's determined to keep doing it as long as she can.

If you're in the US, most states have a waiting period for divorce. It can be stopped at any time or dragged out if you want. Starting the process doesn't mean that you have to finish it but it does tell her that you're dead serious and that she has to either stop the affair and work hard to fix herself or lose you.

Unfortunately, trust has been broken here and you're probably in the position of playing detective for a while, just for the sake of your own mental health, whether you like it or not. She has to earn your trust back and even then, it would be wise to trust but verify from here on out.

You don't have to know everything right now. We all know how you feel but have had some time to gain clarity. For right now, just please trust me when I say that you will come to see the situation with more clarity over time.


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

People are different in how much information about the A they want to know about and deal with..With that being said, demand that she gives all of the information(timetable) to you and that she must do it immediately and in the form that you prefer(verbal, written)..

In the case that you attempt R with WW , demand her cooperation in drafting and signing a post nup that works a settlement in your favor should she be caught in A and you guys S or D..

If there is a lack of cooperation on the part of your WW in signing a post nup or adhering to your other conditions of R, then make home life a little more difficult for your WW..

She should not be able to cake eat without paying dearly for it..

All that is in her comfy little family life at home with you is about to change as she knows it..

A good scenario of changes or consequences you can make happen for your WW as you await S or D or for your WW to come out of the fog could be the following....

WW suddenly finds that she has to return to work if she was a SAHM..All of a sudden she has to pay the household utilities or face them being turned off..If she wants a new cute dress or jeans or a haircut, she has to buy it with her own income, etc..

ETA: When the time comes I will not move out of the marital home without having my interest in it secured legally...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 2:57 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1242 | Registered: Nov 2011
headdesk
Member
Member # 40787
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Also, just to point out the 'swearing' on stuff...it means nothing to them. My WH swore on his father's grave (which is a seriously big deal to him) that nothing else had happened. One week later, I found out more had.


Me: 39
WH: 42
DDay:Sep 19 2013 (only TT of EA)
Oct 4th 2013 revealed PA through snooping.
Marred 16 years, together for 20. Looking to R at this time. We have awesome kids (12/14).

Posts: 273 | Registered: Sep 2013
DefiledRage
Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

How do I fix my marriage?

I think this is one of the first things we as men ask ourselves. Like h0pless said, you don't. The first thing to realize is you didn't destroy it to begin with me. I'm sure she wants you to fix it, that would save her from having to do any work to fix herself. She blew it up, she does the work to put it back together. She has to prove to you that she can self examine and fix those problems within herself that lead to this. Otherwise you will never feel any semblance of safety with her again. If you do all the fixing all your doing is putting a poster over the hole in the wall. It might cover it up but eventually your ww is going to run head first into it and open the hole again.

As a side note to the kids, asking her to leave the house, and lawyer stuff. Do not ever leave your home. She leaves. From what I gather here on SI from those that have gone through custody battles, you leaving the house can be used as a forfeiture of rights when it come to the home and kids. Maybe someone with more experience here can chime in, but you do need to at least consult a lawyer if that's one of your worries which it sounds like you are.


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 554 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

My issue is the kids. How do I protect them? How do I explain that mommy isn't going to be there?

I don't know how old your children are but it really depends on the age. Getting yourself and your kids into individual counseling (IC) may help answer those questions in an age appropriate way.

How do I fix my marriage?

The marriage cannot move forward until both people in the marriage are willing to own their personal issues and work on them. Your wife has some work ahead of her before you can really focus on the marriage. And like others have said, at this point you don't. Your wife blew this up. Now she gets to collect the pieces and put it all back together. You get to sit back and watch her do it. She needs to prove to you she is a safe and honest person that you deserve. Only after that can you really start to address the marriage question. Affair first, marriage next.

I don't want to just lawyer up.

Meeting with a lawyer is to make sure you know your rights. You don't necessarily have to file anything right now if you don't want to. It's legal information you can have to help you navigate the decisions you have coming up in the near future. Sometimes filing gives the wayward spouse a does of reality of their actions. Sometimes it doesn't. You know your situation best. Do what you feel is right for you.

I don't want to lock her up either.How do I keep tabs on her?

We were just talking a little about this in the mens thread. You don't have to lock her up or keeps tabs on her. She made a choice to do what she did. Now she can choose to either make it right, or she can choose to continue on the way she has been. You can't control her, but you can control you. Observe her, see what her actions are. You know her well enough to know if you are getting authentic remorse or if she is playing games. Based on that you move forward in a way that is healthy for YOU and your children.

You'll hear all kinds of things come out of her mouth about how much she loves you, how she never wanted to hurt you or the kids, why can't you get over it, etc etc. It's all a smoke screen to get you off guard and take the focus off of her. Be vigilant, be focused, be observant. And even more importantly, be kind to yourself. Take some time to sort this out if you need to. Remember, this is about her screwed up choices, not you.

[This message edited by RyeBread at 2:59 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
kenny55
Member
Member # 23014
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Sorry you are here but you need to listen to everyone here. Just think, she was going to go have sex with him tonight. Now she will cancel that and considfer having "dinner" with her husband just to show you she wants this marriage to work.

Posts: 473 | Registered: Feb 2009
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

So I know everyone said don't go but I went out with her. I want to say it was great. It wasn't, it was decent enough. We went out had nachos and played pool. I stepped back to shoot and stepped on the edge of the table leg. Ended up dumping the whole table so that was fun.

I have decided on the terms that she will have to meet:
Zero contact with him.
I check her phone, email and facebook whenever I feel like it.
She goes to work and comes home on time.
She sets up date nights for us on a regular basis her choice at least once a month.
She either sets up counseling or we go through some sort of process.
If I find out about anyone else, we are done.

I think that's a good start. I'm also going to call a lawyer in the morning. I need to know my options.

When do I know when to let her back in?

[This message edited by maddmurph at 7:50 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Well that went terribly. She basically said she is leaving. She is sleeping down on the couch right now. Her phone and kindle are up here.

She doesn't want to he treated like a child and she fought me on my terms. She agreed in the end but then said it won't make a difference because nothing will change.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I'm really sorry, madmurph. There's nothing like a wayward in the fog trying to keep their power advantage over you. She's showing you who she is. She's also very likely bluffing. Call her on it. Don't cave. You deserve better, whether it's with her or without her.

Posts: 1727 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
Lyonesse
Member
Member # 32943
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Your terms are entirely reasonable. Anyone who truly understood how their betrayal had affected you would be more than willing to do those minimal things to begin to restore trust.

Unfortunately, it is rather common for WS to still be intent on minimizing consequences to themselves rather than looking at the effects of their actions on others. Some people get it right away, some people never do.

If you back down and accept anything less than what you have said, you will be the one who ends up paying for it. I agree that you should call her bluff. She doesn't "have" to do anything, but you have said what you will need to continue your relationship with her.

She agreed in the end but then said it won't make a difference because nothing will change.
Now THIS is childish. She needs to make some major changes, and that will make a difference. Sounds like she is blameshifting and making it sound like you drove her to an A. Please don't accept that.


Me: BS, 40's.

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: West Coast
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Christ on a pogo stick...

Sorry man. If this isn't a deal breaker then what is? File for divorce and move on from this cake eater. You deserve better.

Look after yourself.


Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

She came back up agreed to counseling. Said I can't force her to love me. She said I'm making choose between married and miserable or divorced and miserable. I said no I just want to actually try and not throw it away.

She stormed back down saying she hares herself. Hitting the wall and throwing the rice pack she had. I went down (of course) and she was bawling on the couch. I got her some water and a tissue. She just sobbed. Then it sounded like she was sleeping so I came back up.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Hi maddmurph, you've gotten great advice from a lot of wise people here. Believe me, you can trust what people are telling you to do because waywards follow an eerily similar pattern most of the time.

The fact that she nonchalantly asked you to take her out after you confronted her with her adultery is mind-boggling. AYFKM??? She's trying to placate you.

You, your sex life, your marriage...are all innocent victims. SHE is the problem! She's blameshifting and continuing to lie and manipulate you. And until she OWNS that this is 1000% HER FAULT, then she doesn't get it.

180. See an attorney. Take care of yourself and your children.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9744 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Wow - isn't she the professional victim. You aren't making her choose anything, do anything, be anything.

You are being INCREDIBLY generous in offering her an opportunity to put on her big girl pants, take responsibility for her actions and choose appropriately ways to undo the catastrophic damage she has CHOSEN to inflict on you and your family.

I think the 180 is really called for here, murph. She needs to own her poop and quit the blameshifting victim-speak. And you probably need to keep your distance (at least emotionally) cuz this is still so raw for you, it is hard to not get sucked in to the manipulations.

Take care of YOU.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3629 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Detach from her and find out if her AP has a wife/girlfriend. If he does, contact her and inform her of the affair. She deserves to know too. Do not tell your wife you are doing this, just do it.

Get a lawyer and see what your options are.

Once again, I wish you well.


Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
Lyonesse
Member
Member # 32943
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

She stormed back down saying she hares herself. Hitting the wall and throwing the rice pack she had. I went down (of course) and she was bawling on the couch.
Oh, boo hoo. She is throwing a tantrum because you just discovered what a little shit she is. I’ve been there – WH felt so sorry for himself and so put upon because there were actually consequences to his actions…like people might realize who he truly was. No concern for me. This kind of immaturity really pisses me off. Unfortunately, it does seem to be part of the wayward makeup all too often.
Detach. I know it is hard, but her behavior will make it easier. Her concern should be all for you right now – what is wrong with this picture?

As the others said - take care of you and your kids. Stay firm. The tantrum can't last forever - she is going to have to make some choices to grow up or leave - HER choices.


Me: BS, 40's.

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: West Coast
Hope2B
Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 1:47 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Murph, I am so sorry to tell you this, but from what I read, she is playing you. This is manipulation at its finest.

You are reeling and she is playing the victim, soon she will bring your children into "the conversation" and use them as pawns to see if she can make you do as she wishes.

What might be VERY helpful for you is to please read about the 180 and follow it. It'sin the Healing Library (yellow box to the left of the screen), under BS FAQ, #11.

She's not leaving, she's leaving, she wants to go out, she's sobbing like a wounded little girl--all this is to see what works on you, and to buy her time to make an exit plan that will serve her best.

I'm so sorry!


Me: early 60s
Him: 65 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo or maybe ever 4x/mo

Posts: 359 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 2:22 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Murph, you need to understand that infidelity is nothing but emotional terrorism. And you cant negotiate with terrorists. Stand your ground, don't offer or make any deals with her, do not under any circumstances console her. If she walks out the door, let her go. You need to lay down the law. She needs a good dose of reality and consequence. Allow her to experience life without you. She may or may not come her senses. But this way your healing begins once you stand up to her and her A. She is right about one thing. You cant force her to love you. But you can force her to realize that with bad decisions come severe consequences. You may not realize this right now. But the way you proceed is going to dictate the rest of your life. I hope you act in accordance with what's best for you. Good luck bro.........

[This message edited by stronger08 at 2:26 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5718 | Registered: Nov 2007
OnAnIsland
Member
Member # 34319
Default  Posted: 2:48 AM, October 11th (Friday)

So sorry that you are here.

She is too deep into the fog to understand what you are asking, what she has done and what it might take to move forward. Set your boundaries. Your list is completely reasonable.

Also an appropriate addition might be a no contact letter- see the healing library- that you write together and she sends- to OM.

You aren't doing anything to the kids or the M, even if you divorce her. She already did this damage when she had an A.

And don't let her blame it on the sex. She had so many other choices. All the way up to divorcing you.

I think she needs to start individual counseling, as do you. I don't think that marital counseling would be useful with her in her current state.

These are my opinions, take what is helpful to your case. But do take care of yourself- run, bike or otherwise exercise, sleep, eat, and stop taking care of her. Be gentle with yourself and firm with her.


D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful boys in elementary school

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou


Posts: 1479 | Registered: Dec 2011
Laura28
Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:07 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Hi Murph

I am so sorry honey. This is awful for you.

But...there is something worse. Staying with a WW who is still screwing around or pining after her "lost love" .

I know there are so many thoughts in your head at present about how to sort out this mess. You sound like someone who is a problem solver. I am too. You spend every waking moment trying to work out what to do to fix the problem.

But honey you can't fix her. You can't fix this. She has to fix her. She has to fix this. She has to be desperate to save the M. Until she is there is nothing you can do.

So 180 now. Better still tell her to leave. Tell her you don't want a W who wants someone else. See a lawyer. Trust me, unless you are willing to lose your M you cannot save it.

In my case on dday I told my FWH to leave. In my case we argued for hours. I demanded he leave. He refused to go. He also refused to phone his latest whore and tell her he was done with her.

I said "Your whores may be willing to share you with me but I will never knowingly share my H with another woman. Choose me or F... off." He called her.

After 3.5 years I am still struggling (LTAs are like that!) but he is trying in his own inept way. I KNOW he has had NC but I am leaving my options open.

Until you put yourself first, you will always struggle. Forget her "needs" (the sex stuff you alluded to is irrelevant - I don't care what the problem is/was nothing excuses an affair. If you were a serial rapist, paedophile or closet bi-sexual or whatever!!!!). The affair is all on her. Never forget that. Nothing excuses an affair. If you were sexually, emotionally or physically abusive she had the choice to leave.

SHE COULD HAVE LEFT YOU!!

Instead she chose the cowards way out.

Get mad honey. You have a right to be.

BIG HUGS

Laura


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2754 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
killedthecat
New Member
Member # 40809
Default  Posted: 3:17 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Curious...what is the problem with the sex life?? I might have misread that, but it sounds like her excuse is that her sexual needs aren't being met?

Posts: 6 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: TX
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Curious...what is the problem with the sex life?? I might have misread that, but it sounds like her excuse is that her sexual needs aren't being met?

That's exactly it.

I guess I need to read about this 180 and go from there.

EDIT: I looked for the 180 and I can't find it.

[This message edited by maddmurph at 7:22 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Laura28
Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Hi again MM

It is in the "Healing Library" (see box top left) under BS FAQ.

This is the direct link

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2754 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Got it thanks so much. I was looking in the wrong place. The upside is I think I doing most of it. I need to watch my tone though, I go between ROID RAGE PISSED to talk to her like she is our 3 year old.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Here's the thing about "unmet sexual needs," murph: WSs often completely manufacture an inadequate sex life for the sole purpose of being able to say, "You weren't meeting my needs."

In other words, sometimes, they set us up.

It sounds as though you might have been set up in this fashion---trapped in a Catch-22.

It's not about your sex life.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8828 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Here's the thing about "unmet sexual needs," murph: WSs often completely manufacture an inadequate sex life for the sole purpose of being able to say, "You weren't meeting my needs."

^^^So true^^^

Took me a long time to grasp this one. To understand it. I took SO much blame upon myself for this. It still saddens me to this day how much blame I took.


Posts: 5669 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, October 11th (Friday)

It's not about your sex life.

Word. Even if there were genuine problems in that area, (and just her saying so doesn't make it a fact) then there were still a million things that could have been done to address that situation that didn't include her having an extra marital affair. That is a totally separate issue, and don't let her tell you otherwise. Having an affair, lying and betraying you is just how she chose to deal with it behind your back - if in fact the problem does really exist.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1879 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, October 11th (Friday)


Murph, re-read my post it's pertinent to her actions below.

She came back up agreed to counseling. Said I can't force her to love me. She said I'm making choose between married and miserable or divorced and miserable. I said no I just want to actually try and not throw it away.
She stormed back down saying she hares herself. Hitting the wall and throwing the rice pack she had. I went down (of course) and she was bawling on the couch. I got her some water and a tissue. She just sobbed. Then it sounded like she was sleeping so I came back up.

This is what's happening. If you stand your ground she is going to throw a fit and cry and everything else. She will agree to some of what you want and act like she is giving you a prize. She will do this in hopes you will drop the rest.

As an example, she said she was leaving. She did this in hopes you would run to her and tell her no. When you didn't she gave a little to what you wanted.

Next time she says she wants to leave tell her you will help her pack. This is probably a scare tactic.

You have all the power. All you have to do is not give in to her. Others have said it her but there are worse things than being divorced. Being the second man in a marriage is worse. You being the logistical arm and provider so some other man can enjoy your wife is worse.

To illustrate the level of manipulation a WW will go through, after D-day my wife kept saying she was going to kill herself every time I demanded something she didn't want to give up. Of course being a Knight in Shining Armor I ran to the rescue. She would get what she wanted. The last time she did it I brought her to the Emergency room and called the cops. On the way over there she said "If you do this I'll divorce you". I said "that I can live with, knowing I didn't get you the help you needed,I can't live with". I also told her this would happen every time I heard it come out of her mouth.

Guess how many times she has done that since?

Sorry if this was harsh but it's the reality of what you're dealing with.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Completely reasonable and fair demands from you. Very irrational and childish response from her. She is not taking ownership of her part in this. I am very sorry she has put you in this position.

I need to watch my tone though, I go between ROID RAGE PISSED to talk to her like she is our 3 year old.

Its understandable since I'm sure your emotions are all over the place. Keep in mind that the more emotion you show her, the more ammo she has to manipulate you with.

It's tough, you love her and in your mind you are her husband. You want to be there for her. The problem is the dynamic of the M has completely changed with the revelation of her A. Now you are seeing where she is at emotionally. She is behaving like an entitled spoiled child. Treat her accordingly. Don't give in and stand your ground. Stand up for you and your kids. It will help you get back that confidence and sense of "you". Thats where the 180 comes in.

Also, wayward spouses in the midst of their A are an emotional blackhole. No amount of soothing or taking care of them will be enough. You have to, HAVE TO, let her figure that out on her own. Getting into IC will help you learn how to navigate her emotional minefield.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, October 11th (Friday)

It isn't about the sex I'll assure you. Mine threw that one at me also in her blameshifting along with ten other things (I can message you what she said if you're interested). Maybe she has convinced herself that she's bored sexually hence the blameshift for that one. It's probably more about what she perceives as the intimacy of sex. And that's an issue she needs to discover in herself as to why she's behaving like this.

Stop trying to "nice" her back to you. Following her with tissues is just that...you're trying to nice her back and show her how much you care about her in the return that she will wake up. You gave her your boundaries now stick with them. Even as hard as it is to do. Even present her with the business card of your attorney. This will hit home to her like you will not believe.

I tried many of the same things you are doing and like the experienced people here are saying, it doesn't work. Now I'm passing on that experience I had and they were right. She still knows you wont follow through on your threats. She knows she can still blameshift because inside she still isn't respecting you. She isn't being transparent with her cell and what not because she is still in contact with him or hopes to be in the future. Mine password locked everything as well at discovery. The A was much worse than I imagined when I found out much more of the truth. they will hide a ton of things and only believe 50% of what you see as the truth. There is more. You need to show her what her life will be without you. She can't have her cake and eat it too. She's very immature like a child and how would you handle a child? Sometimes it takes a while for this stuff to sink into us BS's because we just cannot believe our spouse become these people in front of our eyes. But they do.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1470 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Next time she says she wants to leave tell her you will help her pack. This is probably a scare tactic.

Her stuff is still in bags from when I packed it up. I will help her carry it out to the car. I did not help her bring it back in.

The holiday weekend is messing up my finding a lawyer. I have a number from a friend but I think they are closed. So nothing til Tuesday.

I also have a number for a counselor that I will be calling this morning.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Ugh no available appointments til the Thursday after next.

Lawyer called me back.

I told her about the counselor, and she was like well is that for you or for us because you haven't given me time to look. I said it's for me, you can do the one for both of us.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, October 11th (Friday)

and she was like well is that for you or for us because you haven't given me time to look.

Why would it matter? Sounds like she doesn't like not having control.

FWIW, entering into MC with a nonremorseful WW can be damaging emotionally. If she blames any of this on you and the counselor isn't experienced enough you might feel ganged up on at a time where you are very vulnerable. It may be worth each of you doing individual IC until you feel more emotionally strong, and then pursuing MC then. Just a thought.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, October 11th (Friday)

If she blames any of this on you and the counselor isn't experienced enough you might feel ganged up on at a time where you are very vulnerable.

I think I am strong enough to handle it and savvy enough to know when the counselor isn't good. I could be wrong though. I'm also pretty damaged right now so what's a little more?

In other news, it's liberating to finally be mad at her and not take it out on others. Especially the kids, I had one of my best days with them yesterday.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, October 11th (Friday)

****In regards to her needs not being met sexually***

Did she even tell you what her sexual needs were and weren't..

Don't fall for this kind of blame shifting and manipulation..

We can bend ourselves into pretzels trying to be the sex God/Goddess of the WS's dreams in attempt to nice them back into the M but their needs will end up being ever changing...

Trying to nice the WS back into the M doesn't work..All it does is make us exhausted and crazy..We are left wondering if we are ever good enough for them..Most importantly we feel manipulated by them and wonder when the next shoe is gonna fall...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:17 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1242 | Registered: Nov 2011
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Wow - talk about classic turning it back on you and blameshifting.....AND IT IS WORKING.

She did all this - then threw a tissy fit....and you went and got her water because SHE is upset? She should be begging at your feet.

I am sorry - but her reaction is pi$$ing me off.

I don't care what the $ex issue is - DO NOT let her spin that back onto an excuse for her A!!! Then she continues it and lied more.
Ugh.

Keep standing your ground. SHE DOES NOT have the upper hand here, you do. Time she realizes that and gets onboard with the plan.

That entire thing about them having a date tonight....then can't go because you found out....so now she wants you guys to go instead???? Who would want to go out knowing it was to be their date and you are the back-up?

I am sorry you are going through this but just because she said "sorry" this time is not enough.


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2173 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, October 11th (Friday)

That entire thing about them having a date tonight....then can't go because you found out....so now she wants you guys to go instead???? Who would want to go out knowing it was to be their date and you are the back-up?

I hate to defend her but the date with us came up as a stand in for her not calling of work to talk about it. She did end up not going into work and coming home. We had the babysitter coming and decided to still go.

In the meantime I'm playing phone tag with the lawyer.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Looks like she planning a girls night out next week. What do I do about that? I want to tell her not to go. I also just want to pack up the kids and go to my parents that weekend.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I'm bumping some threads to the top of JFO for you.

HBH


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
integritymatters
Member
Member # 23681
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, October 11th (Friday)

After Dday many a WS behaves irratically with thought processes that are totally illogical. Often times referred to on here as "The Fog"

IC for me was a savior. My IC explained that in her opinion affairs had less to do with love and sex and more to do with power & control. During an affair a WS & AP experience extreme "highs" of control and feelings of "power". Deception/secrecy ensures you have knowledge that others do not. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is control. After discovery that power/control is ripped away and frequently the WS and/or AP are like a wild animal "cornered" and "fight/flight" survival instincts kick in. You will see ridiculous and somewhat bizarre behaviour and thought processes from them. She quoted Dr. Phil in saying "They aren't thinking straight. When a person makes choices to fix their situation that make their situation worse... They aren't thinking straight" That doesn't mean that what they are doing/saying/behaving is "ok". What it does mean is that you are not dealing with the person you know them to be. YOU have to make changes if you want to see change. You cannot continue to react in known or predicted patterns if you want change. You may not be able to determine a reconcilled, happily ever after marital recovery and "saved" family, but you CAN prevent the circle of wash/rinse/repeat by interrupting the patterns.

Some advice I was given while in your shoes. I would keep little cue cards of these things and pull them out and grab what I needed when I needed. Sometimes I would have to quickly exit the situation to pull them out and then go back "armed" with my new "controlled" wisdom... But they DO WORK when dealing with a fogged WS during the early bizzarre days of post discovery...

SELF ASSURING PHRASES

I'm an adult.
Yelling can't destroy me.
I can stand how I'm feeling.
I don't have to make it better or fix things.
He's/She's responsible for his behaviour, not me.
He's/She's behaving like a spoiled child.
He's/She's out of control.
His/Her behaviour is not o.k.
His/Her behaviour has little to do with me.

DO'S AND DON'Ts OF DEALING WITH CONTROLLING BEHAVIOUR

Dont' make life decisions.
Don't tell him/her off.
Don't tell him/her how I feel. They don't care, they only care about them.
Don't try and make him/her see.
Don't apologize.
Don't plead.
Don't cry.
Don't argue.
Don't defend.
Don't yell.
Don't threaten.

Don't say:
I'm sorry
Is this OK?
Do you agree?
Do you like this?

Do say:
This is what I think
This is what I believe
This is what I will do
This is what I will not do.
This is what I want

SELF EMPOWERING THINGS TO SAY

It is not okay for you to talk to me this way.

It is not okay fory you to treat me this way.

Screaming isn't going to work anymore.

This is one time you can't intimdate me.

I know that this has always worked before, but I want you to know that it's not going to work anymore.

I will not stand here and be screamed at.

I will discuss this topic with you when you've calmed down.

I will not accept being put down by you.

People who care about me don't treat me this way.

You've controlled me with this behaviour in the past but I want you to know that that's over.

I'm not the same person I used to be.


I dropped my toast this morning and it landed butter side up! It's going to be a good day. :)

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Canada
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Just asked to look at her phone and she got pissed. I mean seriously. She's still hiding something. That lawyer needs to call me back.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, October 11th (Friday)

OK straight up panicking. I need to know what my rights are and I need to get into a counselor.

She has both kids right now.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
integritymatters
Member
Member # 23681
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, October 11th (Friday)

What do you mean, she has the kids? Is she still living at home with you?


I dropped my toast this morning and it landed butter side up! It's going to be a good day. :)

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Canada
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, October 11th (Friday)

What do you mean, she has the kids? Is she still living at home with you?


Sorry it means that both kids are with her. She lives at home, but she is picking up my son from school. She took our daughter with her. I really think if I push too hard she will take off with them.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
integritymatters
Member
Member # 23681
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, October 11th (Friday)

She can't "take off" with them. Well, physically she can but that's kidnapping and she'll be committing a felony. Not good for her.

You mention "holiday weekend" would it be safe to assume you are Canadian?


I dropped my toast this morning and it landed butter side up! It's going to be a good day. :)

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Canada
integritymatters
Member
Member # 23681
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, October 11th (Friday)

If you are Canadian, I possibly could send you a link to a good IC who will take emergency calls.


I dropped my toast this morning and it landed butter side up! It's going to be a good day. :)

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Canada
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, October 11th (Friday)

She can't "take off" with them. Well, physically she can but that's kidnapping and she'll be committing a felony. Not good for her.

I'm not sure she cares.

You mention "holiday weekend" would it be safe to assume you are Canadian?

Nope. American. Hooray Columbus Day! America celebrating inaccurate holidays since 1776.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Calm down brother.

I'm not sure she cares.

Do you fear for their safety if she does it? If so, the instant you get confirmation, notify the police, it IS a felony. Also the BEST thing she could do if/when it comes time to award custody. Judges like to keep children in the 'family' home in times like this. The problem is, what if she goes to her parents and claims she was in fear of you. Watch your ass.

Invest in a VAR(voice activated recorder) for all of your dealings with her. A charge of illegally recording her would be a lot better than having to fight a false DV charge. Several of us here have experience with that. I was one of the *lucky* ones. I found out that she was trying to have me removed ex partee meaning I couldn't even testify on my own behalf. When I actually found out and requested a hearing, the only charge she could come up with was that I had left the oven on overnight thereby endangering her and the kids. Without the hearing though, her request would have been granted first and the hearing would not have occurred for another 6 months. The whole time, primary custody would have been hers and judges don't change the status quo easily.
Anyway, keep calm. Be very deliberate in your actions with her. Make it absolutely clear that transparency is critical before any type of R can even be contemplated.

Just curious, do her parents know?

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2974 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
topperoff22
Member
Member # 40762
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Nope. American. Hooray Columbus Day! America celebrating inaccurate holidays since 1776.

HA! At least your sense of humor is still intact. Hang in there. I hope this all works out for you.


BS - Me 36
WS - Him 35 (almost 36)
Child: son, 6; just learned one on way
DDAY - July 24, 2013 (thousands spent on ex girlfriend)
DDAY2 -Aug. 3, 2013 (proof he slept with her)
R is slow going after TT for 1 month

Posts: 316 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: US
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I get more sarcastic when I'm mad.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I just got home from work and wanted to ask you how you were doing? Are your kids home with you? Hang in there. This shit tends to get worse before it gets better. But it DOES get better.

Posts: 1727 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I'm alright. Talked to a lawyer. Made an appointment with an ic. We are at her sister's because her parents are in town. I'm laughing and having a good time.

I didn't think I would make it through yesterday let alone today. Thank you all.

Thanks for checking on me.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
topperoff22
Member
Member # 40762
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I get sarcastic too.


BS - Me 36
WS - Him 35 (almost 36)
Child: son, 6; just learned one on way
DDAY - July 24, 2013 (thousands spent on ex girlfriend)
DDAY2 -Aug. 3, 2013 (proof he slept with her)
R is slow going after TT for 1 month

Posts: 316 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: US
Mr. Kite
Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Also, just to point out the 'swearing' on stuff...it means nothing to them.

Mine laid her hand on a Bible and swore there had only been one man she had screwed around with. It turned out later there was a #2. Liars lie because they fear being exposed for what they are - liars.

Looks like she planning a girls night out next week. What do I do about that? I want to tell her not to go.

Are you frickin' kidding me? Yeah honey, you can go out with the girls every night from now on if you want because I'm divorcing your selfish a$$ if you go.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I brought her phone upstairs. It's charging next to mine. My heart is pounding. Straight adrenalin. It could get interesting.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, October 11th (Friday)

She came up to know when my IC appointment was so she could make our MC appointment. I said it's Tuesday and it's on the calendar. Then wanted to know if I wanted a man or woman. I said I don't care you pick.

Didn't say anything about the phone. As much as I would love to think she is telling the truth, I'm sure she isn't so now I need a new way to keep tabs on her texts. That's not illegal.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Who's your carrier? I have Sprint and the bill isn't very detailed but I know other carriers have better info there. Watch out for apps with a chat feature. Those won't show up on the bill.

Posts: 1727 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, October 11th (Friday)

We have Virgin. No detail on the bill. All her apps go through my account. I see those. All good there.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 4:36 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

Download spyware onto the phone and put a keylogger on her computer..don't tell her.

She's hiding something.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7671 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

180. How do I know I'm doing it right but not being a jerk? Like we were out of towels this morning. So I grabbed two from the dryer. Was that wrong?

I did give myself a haircut which is something I normally ask her to do. Slipped and had to trim my beard too but worth it I think.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

Just keep going between feeling pretty good to I'm gonna barf. Tuesday and the therapist aren't going to come fast enough.

So I keep thinking about her not getting any texts from him. Now I'm guessing it's because she is deleting them before I can see them or told him to not to send anything or she is deleting them before i can see them. The other thing is that before this week there was a five month gap.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Mr. Kite
Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

180. How do I know I'm doing it right but not being a jerk?

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

Unless you are intentionally being a jerk, I doubt if you will come off as being a jerk in any way..

The 180 is more of a shift in focus..
Instead of putting her needs or goals above yours do the opposite..
Hypothetical example here:
If you gave up pursuing a degree to give yourself more time to support or further WW's career, now is the appropriate time to make the priority of getting your own degree more important than supporting her in getting hers..KWIM?

[This message edited by doggiediva at 10:44 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1242 | Registered: Nov 2011
headdesk
Member
Member # 40787
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

Holding her accountable and standing your ground is NOT being a jerk. Letting her go to pout/cry/wail in another room is NOT being a jerk.

I get it, because I'm compassionate to that point too. Hate seeing people upset, even if it's their responsibility that they're upset. I've had to learn that me cushioning my WH's emotions and 'solving' problems for him has actually done him harm, even when I was doing it to be nice. It meant he never had to deal with his stuff. That set him back, not forward.

Start letting her feel the emotion and consequences of her actions or she'll never have that opportunity to change. Also dig and look up things as you've started to do already - if your gut is screaming and you need to listen to it.

Hugs!


Me: 39
WH: 42
DDay:Sep 19 2013 (only TT of EA)
Oct 4th 2013 revealed PA through snooping.
Marred 16 years, together for 20. Looking to R at this time. We have awesome kids (12/14).

Posts: 273 | Registered: Sep 2013
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

So then grabbing her a towel or coffee isn't a bad thing?


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

No, its not bad persay but if you show her any sort of kindness she will take it for weakness.

Ignore her like she doesn't exist. Why be nice and considerate to your destroyer??

It's not logical.

Kids and finances only.

Get your own towel...your own coffee. Avoid her like the plague!

Let her see what life is like without you being a loving husband...she fired you from that job, 'member

DETACH


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

Found a program that backs up her texts to email. That's a start. She left the phone up here. Trying to wrap my head around the 180 still. Every part of me says it's a mistake, that I need to be nice. I guess that's what got me here in the first place.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

180 is a change in your attitude basically. Don't do even little considerate things you used to do, and that will throw her off in her little game, she won't know what to expect from you...180 is one of YOUR most powerful tools.

GettingToHappy is right, she will mistake your 'niceness' for 'weakness' (and more control for her.) Treat her very casually, like you would an acquaintance.

I don't consider this to be 'mean' at all. During his A, my H lied and denied to me to the point that I thought I was going to go mad, he spent money that belonged to US on his nasty f*fests with the mow, he was hateful, cruel, and deceitful beyond belief. Now THAT is MEAN, and heartless.

Let her hit rock-bottom alone, it's the only way she MAY come to a turnaround in her mind.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9744 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

Murph, you can't 'nice' a WS back. You probably were and are a nice person anyway. The reason she cheated is that she *chose* to do so, with no consideration for you whatsoever.

I've been at SI for 8 years and read thousands of stories. So many BS's (in their shocked and panicked state of JFO, myself included) think it's something they did wrong. And most of them try and be extra nice to their WS. I have NEVER seen one time where that was a successful strategy.

When you detach and 180 them, it changes the whole atmosphere. If WS is going to leave, that is what they will do anyway, so you have nothing to lose, and possibly everything to gain by doing the 180.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9744 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

180 gives you some of your dignity back in this shitty situation..
It is the appropriate way of dealing with people that don't treat you with respect.


[This message edited by doggiediva at 12:26 AM, October 13th (Sunday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1242 | Registered: Nov 2011
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

I'm just laying here stressed and obsessing. Am I doing the 180 right? Can I even do it right? How do I get to the lawyer? How do I act towards her around friends and family? How I keep it together for the kids?

Definitely one of those times when I wish there was someone to talk to face to face.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

These will be some of the most confusing times in your life. Every instinct is telling you that if you were a better husband, this disaster would not have unfolded. Almost every member here has been there, and done that. I can remember as plain as day 4 years ago, thinking to myself--"How did I let this happen? What can I do to make things right? If I show my WW wife how nice that I can be...like a good husband should, then she will return to the good wife. I am deathly afraid that if I am not nice to her, then she will leave. How do I prevent this?"

It doesn't work that way. There is nothing---and I mean NOTHING---that can justify her behavior....even if you were a poor husband. You have to accept that there is something very wrong with your WW to make the decisions that she has made. That is no cop-out to our behaviors, and contributions to a less than stellar marriage---it is simply putting responsibility where it rightfully belongs.

Prior to this, I am sure that you both had shortcomings in your marriage. She then blew it up in its entirety. This is what needs to be addressed first, without anything else getting in the way. You can let her know that if she is fully committed, and wants to try to save the marriage, then you are all in. But anything less, and you are all out. There is your need for the 180--a detachment tool that breaks you from your very own fog that you are currently in.

And let me tell you---when you can look at your current situation with some emotional distance from your WW, you will see things in an ENTIRELY different light. This is your end goal---your well-being. Whether it is as a team with your committed WW, or on your own with an unremorseful one, you need to get to a better emotional state.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
AlexFL
Member
Member # 40966
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Why do you want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you? I'm only asking cause maybe your reply will help me with what I'm going through. My partner has cheated several times. Each time I'm the one wondering if it's something I did. Finally I realize that although things are great in every other aspect of our life, that maybe it time for me to accept the pain and go through the sadness so that I can find my self respect. It's very easy to forgive and push it away mentally cause then you feel a little better cause you aren't in such termoil but the wounds are still there. I know. This is the 5th time for me. I think I better start thinking of myself. You probably should also.

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

I have been hitting the 180 hard today and it's been really hard. Her family is in town (they don't know), I'm being nice and upbeat with them as well as the kids, but not being right by her or really talking to her. My issue now is how to react to her reaction when she gets mad because of course I want to apologize. This morning she actually said "Morning" to me and I didn't respond, so she said "I said MORNING." I looked at her said "sorry I didn't hear you. Morning." Then got my coffee and went on my way. I legitimately didn't hear her. Church was hard, we joint teach the Teen Class so I had to be there with her and help out there. The worst though was during the Lord's Prayer. Normally we hold hands. I folded my hands in front of me and looked down. She put her hand out for me to take and I just ignored it. I thought I would throw up. In the meantime she has gotten me more coffee and fixed the spot on the back of my head where I missed with the clippers. She keeps engaging me in conversations. My answers are just yep, yeah?, that's cool. I want to think I'm doing it right and it's working, but it's kind of early to tell I guess.

She told me this morning she called and left a message for the MC. Said she left the house and her cell numbers. If talk to them make the appointment for Thursday or Saturday. I said "OK". In my mind thinking, "I'm not talking to them, you need to do that."

Why do you want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you?

The issue is that I love her. We make a great team and are great partners. The issue is that she isn't always faithful. I'm willing to give her a chance to prove she will change.
It's very easy to forgive and push it away mentally cause then you feel a little better cause you aren't in such termoil but the wounds are still there. I know. This is the 5th time for me. I think I better start thinking of myself. You probably should also.

That being said, I will only give her one chance. I'm trying to work out in my head when I will meet with the lawyer. I'm trying not to use that as a threat, but I really want to make the call to the lawyer in front of her. Just to show her that I'm serious about this and she needs to either get serious or get out.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

She just came up and asked "so is this how we are going to be? " I said "is what how we are going to be?"
Then she stormed down stairs.
I mean fuck woman get a clue you need to come crawling to me.

I was stupid to think I was getting through.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Mr. Kite
Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

If the purpose of the 180 was to manipulate or hurt Mrs. Kite, then it's a colossal failure. She loves it. Very little talking, no embarrassing questions or demands from me, no intimacy. That's her idea of the perfect marriage. But the 180 is not about that at all. It's about taking care of you first.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 3:58 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Ok. Then I messed up. I thought it was more like the silent treatment. I just don't get it then. I don't know why I don't understand it.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
hard_yards
Member
Member # 23549
Default  Posted: 4:56 AM, October 14th (Monday)

She's trying to push you for a reaction. Every. Time.

Have you read "Understanding the 180"?

I'll find it and bump it to page one.

What you want to do is find a base-line for yourself.

Be busy, be engaged in things outside your wife's sphere, be it sport, the garden, helping friends or family... anything but moping, not hanging around to check on her, let her see you getting on with life.

Make sure you shower and shave every morning, dress nicely, look like you've got plans, and then find something to do, even if it's just going out for a coffee by yourself. If she asks you, just say "I've got stuff to do".

As for the normal little niceties that you'd do... coffee, towels... nope, sorry, you need to retrain yourself not to do that, I know it's hard, I know it goes against your natural instincts, but you need to be strong here.

Unfortunately, infidelity is one time when the nice guy almost never wins.

If she speaks to you, limit answers to monosyllables, yes, no, okay....

She needs to see the consequences of her actions, there's always consequences.

Get to that lawyer, ASAP, knowledge is power, power is attractive, and you need to shift the dynamics of your relationship. You also need to know what to expect should this all go completely south.

You're doing great in a situation you should have never found yourself in. Remember that none of this is your fault, I don't care what she says. Stay Strong.



I feel like I'm in a parallel universe... everything looks the same... but something's just not right...

Posts: 1241 | Registered: Apr 2009
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, October 14th (Monday)

I have read it. I just don't understand it.

She got pissed this morning because I wasn't talking to her last night. (Also because I had moved some money whole other issue.) I wasn't talking to her because I didn't understand the 180. I said I just didn't want to talk. Then she accused me of being more interested in the kids now. I said no I'm just able to be mad at her and not take it out on the kids.

Still need to figure the time for the lawyer.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Asking about every little thing, and repeating that you don't understand the 180 is frustrating.
I think what you really mean is that you are unwilling to do it.

Now I get that, we all struggle with it at first, & that's why there's so much insightful info @ it on here...

Simply, the 180 is about turning all your energy, thoughts, and actions into you.
Self-care.
Healing you.
And...

limiting your interactions with an unremorseful spouse.

I understand it is counter-intuitive at first exposure to the idea.
It also goes against lifelong conditioning - training to be there, and fix and serve our loved one's needs.

It is hard to do murph - but not because you don't understand it...


Posts: 6643 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Hi Murph.

The most difficult thing for me turned out to be exactly what the 180 dictates - I wish so much that I had understood it better and applied it more forcefully.

The 180 doesn't mean that you have to be an asshole. If she asks you to pass a napkin - sure, here it is. You don't have to storm out of the house without explanation. Rather, "WW, I'm going out. See you later."

What it DOES do is ask for you to have the confidence in yourself to begin a world free of her... getting involved in interests and doing things that benefit YOU and YOUR future.

It can be daunting. Many of us (damn, it was ME) were so consumed with our wives (making them happy, doing things for them, being the nice guy, etc.) that we lost focus on the fact that we don't NEED our wives. THAT is the key take away from the 180. You CAN live without her. I recognize that it's difficult to come to that understanding - but it's true.

The confidence to be willing to lose you marriage in order to save it is a frightful proposition for the BS. The WS has already stared at the outlet for some time - but we never considered it before. Suddenly the chance of the marriage ending is thrust upon us and we're forced to make decisions that had never before been contemplated.

This is why, in the JFO forum, much of the message to the newly betrayed is to gain the confidence to establish the upper hand.

The amazing thing is that, so often, gaining the confidence that individuality holds brings the WS back off the cloud that the affair represents. Or, sometimes as important, it forces them to make a decision - something that shouldn't be underestimated. It's often said here that the worst thing is not the affair, it's living with an ongoing affair when it's 3 in the marriage.

Lastly, and MOST important, whether you reconcile or divorce, the 180 sets you up for being your own person - a better you - which is far more healthy regardless of what path the affair takes you.

Best of luck! You can do it!


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, October 14th (Monday)

I totally want to do it. I thought it was about being cold and detached. But it's about putting me first. I'm sorry I'm the kind of person that questions what he is doing when he doesn't understand. I have read everything, multiple times and
I'm taking it to heart.
She asked if I wanted her to leave. I said whatever you want to do.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Murph, to me it was about a lot of things.

First it's about taking care of me. I realized early on that was one thing I didn't do. It was always about her. Always. I started doing what I wanted to do. She was a SAHM and we did everything together when I was off of work.

Me suddenly doing things without her mover her out of her comfort zone. It moved her way out. My wife had the "he will never leave me" belief in her head. Your wife is probably in the same place. Her asking "do you want me to leave" was really "I want him to tell me he wants me to stay". BTW you answered that correctly.

In the end I told my wife "you are free to do as you wish,I will support whatever you decide". I finally realized that no matter what happened I would be OK. I laid down the ground rules to staying married and laid the choice on her.

Things changed for my wife when I went up the road to wash the car. When I came back I was humming or whistling. This told her that I was ok when I wasn't around her. This SCARED her. It meant I was out of her "control".

The 180 was my tool to detach and take care of me. That is what allows you to objectively make those kinds of decisions.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Sending you strength today, Murph. What can you do for yourself today? Doesn't have to be big. Go for a walk. Run an errand or two. Hit the gym. Walk the dog. See a movie you've been wanting to see...


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25691 | Registered: Aug 2011
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, October 14th (Monday)

It is hard to do murph - but not because you don't understand it...

I'm just used to things being easy and when it's hard I assume I'm doing it wrong. Thanks for the encouragement.

Her asking "do you want me to leave" was really "I want him to tell me he wants me to stay". BTW you answered that correctly.

I'm see that and thanks for the encouragement.

Things changed for my wife when I went up the road to wash the car. When I came back I was humming or whistling. This told her that I was ok when I wasn't around her. This SCARED her. It meant I was out of her "control".

I'm having a blast with the kids because I'm free to be mad at her. She accused me of being interested in the kids now. I told her no it's because I don't have to take out my anger on them. I work from home, I see my kids all the time. I do things with them all the time. Now that the anger isn't getting in the way of being silly or worrying about annoying her, we are having a great time.

Sending you strength today, Murph.

Thank you. I need all the strength I can get.

What can you do for yourself today?

I'm hanging with my little girl today. We got her hair cut. We went to the park, pretended were geese. Now we are watching Kipper.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, October 14th (Monday)

I wanted to echo what others have said about the 180.

I am guessing during your M you lost sight of the fact that you are your own person. You put your time and energy into your family, your M, and your wife. You gave up a big part of you for the "greater good". The 180 is about reclaiming who you are. It's not about punishing your wife or making her understand. It's about focusing on the things that make you happy. Do things with your children (like you already are), take up a hobby or activity you've put aside, go back to school if you have had that desire, reconnect with friends and family, spend time with people who bring you joy and enjoy being with you. Your WW will be angry, upset, make comments, act pissed, whatever. But right now its not about her feelings, its about yours. Get yourself to a healthy place so that you aren't so intertwined with her feelings. She can worry about herself. That doesn't mean you treat her badly. You can still be cordial, respectful, polite, etc. But she no longer runs the show with you. You are your own person, she needs to adjust herself accordingly. If at some point you feel she is remorseful and willing to value you as the individual you are, as well as respect the commitment you have made to one another, then you can let your guard down. But make her show you she wants that.

The thing is, she removed herself from the M by having an A. Now she wants to be right back in the same place she was like nothing ever happened. To me, when my WW did that she became just like any other person who I was not married to. I owed her nothing and she was not priviledged to have my heart until she was willing to prove that she wasn't going to take advantage of that again.

It's hard to know if you are "doing it right" or not. I don't know that there is a right or wrong way to do it. We each have our own unique relationships and you know it better than anyone. There will be trial and error. You are wading into uncharted waters so be easy on yourself. Go with your gut and do what you feel is the wisest thing for you.

I hope the appointment with your lawyer gives you some insight and helps to bring you some confidence to your situation.

Again, very sorry for what you are dealing with. You are not alone and we are right here if you need us.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Murph,

YOu are struggling to do what you feel is right, and fighting the reality of the situation, that she couldn't give 2 shits how you feel.

I always felt doing the 180 was too difficult. We had small kids, and I was never one to put myself first. But what I realized after my H kept breaking NC, was that if I didn't put me first, no one else was going to, and he didn't see the need to give me the respect I deserved, because I never demanded it.

180 is about you getting some strength and perspective, not manipulating her back to you. You have zero control over her choices, and presently she is choosing to not respect you, or own her actions.

See an attorney, Do NOT tell her you are going, just do it. Get a feel for things, and get answers to your rights, and what to expect should you need to head down that path.

Do get STD tested, and demand she does as well, if she wants to be with you.

You get to be in the drivers seat for this, all you have to is get in. If you don't she will drive all over you.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8685 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, October 14th (Monday)

You get to be in the drivers seat for this, all you have to is get in. If you don't she will drive all over you.

maddmurph,

Really take this to heart. tushnurse is right on with this.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Thank you for being here I wouldn't be strong enough to do this.

In other news she made the MC appointment. Her sister is watching the kids so she can go. She also told her sister it's so we can go to counseling.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
maddmurph
Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Looks like we are going out with friends tomorrow night.

Meeting with the lawyer on Friday. Just need to keep moving.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, October 14th (Monday)

I'm hanging with my little girl today. We got her hair cut. We went to the park, pretended were geese. Now we are watching Kipper.
Awesome.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25691 | Registered: Aug 2011
Topic Posts: 113