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Reconciliation
User Topic: He contacted me tonight during the 30 days of NC
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I told my wBF last Thursday that I needed 30 days of NC. He told me a TON of new confessions about prior lies and ongoing lies, and it was just the breaking point for me. The way that I saw him is that he cannot be alone and that he is terrified of being abandoned. When he was in Argentina for a month, he slept with another girl. When he was feeling insecure in December, he slept with a second girl. When he thought he might lose me after Dday, he created a dating profile while trying to win me back. I needed to see that he could actually be alone for 30 days and not go out and sleep with someone. That was what I needed to feel safe with him in the future.

He contacted me on Saturday, and then I hadn't heard anything from him since then. He sent me three emails tonight, and four text messages. I'm angry that he didn't respect my boundary, but I'm also questioning the things that he said in the email and whether he may be right. But the thing is, there was so much manipulation before last week (fake counselor, fake ADs) that I don't know whether this is also manipulation. Here's some portions of his email (talking about his IC):

We also talked about the 30 days No Contact. He said that he had never heard of it. He said it seemed counter-intuitive. He said that if we wanted to the relationship work we should spend more time together and try to talk more. He said he would like us to do emotionally focused therapy together.

I told him all of your reasons for wanting the no contact for 30 days and he said it would only make it more difficult for us to recover after the fact. He said there is a lot of shock and trauma initially after finding out about the affair that we have to deal with. He said that initially in some cases he will tell one of the people in the relationship to take some time to themselves to determine whether or not they want to work on the relationship. Once they start working on it they need to be dedicated to working on it.

Thirty days of NC is not a "treatment." It was something that my IC suggested in order to help me develop my sense of self and to test him to see whether he's a safe partner. But... I do see how being together and communicating makes working out better/easier. The thing is though is that I tried that for six months, and got nowhere. He was lying to me for six months while I was communicating and trying to work things out. I feel like his IC is trying to make me seem like the bad guy to him now because by me asking for 30 days NC, that means that I don't care about the relationship? Am I reading that right, or overreacting? I very much care about the relationship.

Another thing:

I also told him how your counselor said that I may have Borderline Personality Disorder. He seemed stunned. He said several times that he sees no signs of me having that. He said he has only known me for a few hours but there were would be no reason for him to believe that. He says professionally he has only seen 1 case where the person would be diagnosed with that. He gave an example of somebody with BPD might process an event. He said, "Imagine that you are picking up _____ to go to a movie at 7pm and you arrive at her house and she isn't there. You text her and ask her where she is. She replies back that it will be 7:30 before she gets there. He said it would be normal to be upset that you might miss the movie. But a person with BPD would wonder "how could she possibly do this to me, how could she abandon me, how could she cut me this deeply." He said that they are incredibly unstable in emotions and have evidence of this behavior in all of their relationships. He also wanted to know your counselors credentials and said it was very uncommon for a therapist to suggest a diagnosis that is lifetime on a person that she has never met and when she is only getting information from one source.

My IC didn't diagnose him. She actually refused to label him in any way until this week, even though I had asked her about a ton of different personality disorders. My IC is licensed. And I do see those traits in him. There have been times in the past where I've been napping when he texted me, and I'll get 20+ texts from him freaking out wanting to know what's wrong and why I'm not responding. So I do very much see a fear of abandonment in him. Which is again why I asked to do the 30 days NC, to test if he could actually be alone for 30 days.

I'm feeling like the bad guy now. I'm feeling like since I asked for 30 days NC, I'm the one that doesn't care about the relationship. I'm the bad guy. I'm the one giving up on him. I'm the one giving up on us. And that makes me so angry. I stayed by his side after Dday. I begged and pleaded for him to go to IC. I begged for MC. He just kept lying to me, and now his IC is making me out to be the bad guy!

I don't even know what to do with this email. There is a huge part of me that wants to respond. There's a huge part of me that wants to go to the counselor with him. But there's an even bigger part of me that's terrified that this is just more manipulation. Do I say no to him? Do I say yes? Do I not respond at all?

I'm so frustrated. I thought that he understood what I needed. I thought he respected what I needed. And now I'm feeling like the bad guy again. I'm so tired of feeling like the bad guy because I have put so much work into this relationship.

And this is exactly the type of stuff that pulls me in. I've been doing reading on boundaries, and I see that my main boundary problem is not wanting to hurt other people by saying no. So I can see exactly how this is playing out for me right now. I'm scared that if I say no to him, it will hurt him. And I'm scared that if I hurt him, he will leave me. I'm scared that if I say no, he won't be there in 30 days.

Is his IC right? Am I doing the wrong thing? Was my IC wrong?

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 9:31 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

First, Google theraputic or trial separation. Its definitely not a new thing.

Second my husband is PD with 90% narc traits. That's flat out wrong. I could scan in and email part of his psych report for you if you wanted.

Third, its flat out total manipulation.

Crickets.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

You are not wrong, your IC is not wrong. His if he exists is, but also remember if his IC is real, he's probably lying his ass off and manipulating. I thought this was like his first or second session, how could his IC even say he's *not something.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

If the IC this time is real, it's his second session.

I typed up a response to his email, and now I'm debating on whether to send it or not. I think I'm going to sleep on it before I make a decision.

My IC told me that a month apart is very little compared to the rest of our lives, and that a month apart shouldn't make a difference in the outcome of our relationship. She said that if the relationship can't work after a month apart, then it wasn't a very strong relationship. That's what I keep repeating to myself.

But I'm just feeling like the bad guy by what his IC told him. I feel like his IC is going to convince him to leave me because I'm not committed to R. I was so committed to R. I did everything that I knew how to do.

I'm feeling powerless right now. If I email him, I'm sacrificing my boundaries. If I don't email him, I'm scared he's going to walk away and not wait the 30 days.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

He's giving his IC his version. He's also giving you his version of what his IC said. If he said it at all.

Don't send it, pm me your email if your comfy and I will send you some stuff from the psych report in the morning.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I tried to PM you, and it says that you're at your limit.

I'm going to sleep on the email. I'm actually out of town all day tomorrow for work, so that will distract me from having to respond for a little longer too.

I'm kind of thinking that it's been a week, and he's starting to get scared of being alone. And so he's trying to convince me to see him this weekend.

Before I got these tonight, I was thinking about how much I missed him. And now I'm just feeling scared that if I don't respond to him, he'll freak out and sleep with someone this weekend because he'll think that I abandoned him.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

If he does that, its on him. You were extremely clear.

Samantha, clear your PMs so LG can pm you! She is having a tough time :)


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Now I'm worrying that his IC is right, and I should be going to counseling with him instead of asking for NC.

I've read so many success stories on here where people were able to work things out after one partner left. By me doing NC, is that me giving up? Is his IC right?


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

He just sent me another email. I guess he read this post. It says:

Don't respond to my email. I was being honest but its ok. I'm trying to do more of the non-violent communication.

You have a real legitimate need for 30 days of NC I guess. I may not fully completely understand it, but I should be willing to meet that need.

Don't worry about responding to me. I won't go out and sleep with somebody this weekend.

I love you, and I will meet your need.

You can reset the 30 day timer if you want to. I'm really sorry for the previous lies and how its brought us to this but I can accept it.

That is encouraging to me, and lifted some of the pressure I was feeling.

All this stuff is so hard. My gut instinct was to respond, and the only reason I didn't was because of the chapter I read tonight in my boundary book where I learned that I do a lot of things out of fear.

I'm still tossing around in my head whether his IC is right though... And I'm still scared that his IC will convince him to leave me.

My boundary book says that I need to accept that saying no may cause people to leave me. That I can't control other people's actions, only my own.

This is so hard.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I will clear out.

I hate that he's got insight into your mind right now.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Honey, I think this thread contains the reason why you went NC. You can't think clearly when he is messing with your head.

Give him crickets and hang out with yourself. Figure out what you need, what you deserve, what your ideal relationship would be like. Take up a new hobby, make a new friend, join a book club or volunteer.

Can you be alone for 30 days? I do think it's a good test of emotional stability.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I'm clear!


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:27 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Honey, I think this thread contains the reason why you went NC. You can't think clearly when he is messing with your head.

My sentiments exactly!

There is such a thing as a therapeutic separation (such as what you've requested), and if his IC has never heard of such a thing, his IC is an idiot. It has been my experience, and I've also read it happening here repeatedly to other people, where the WS makes all kinds of nonsense claims of what their IC said. "Oh, the IC said you're not supposed to be like this. My IC said s/he has never heard of such a thing. My IC says I'm not like what you say." It's just another way to abuse you, by twisting the words of their IC or outright making it up.

The fact that your WBF was unable to even go a week without breaking your very reasonable request for some space & time apart speaks volumes about what a selfish, immature asshole he is.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9254 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I don't know what to think. I looked up his IC, and he is a licensed marriage counselor who also used to be a family court mediator. My head is spinning in circles, and you're right that this is partially why I needed 30 days of NC. I think I requested it for two reasons. First, to see if he could actually go a month without sex. And second, because my head was spinning in circles from all the lies that I couldn't even believe the truth when I actually heard the truth.

So I don't know if he's telling the truth about what his IC said or not. I'm still worried that if I don't respond, he'll give up on me. But I know that is my fear talking.

I don't think he's an asshole. I think he just misses me and he's trying to do everything possible to get me back.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I'd set the NC clock right back to zero.

Look at this:

1. Not respecting your NC boundary, which is for YOUR own good.

2. Undermining your thoughts to "get you to do something" for his own benefit.

3. Reading this post in order to figure out what to say next (this place should be safe for you)

4. Back tracks on original message after reading here. (doesn't seem sincere and more like what he thinks you and those advising you *want* to hear.

These are 4 major red flags...without even taking into account the avalanche of other issues that brought you here.

This relationship seems so unhealthy.

Keep reading your boundary book.

I'm still worried that if I don't respond, he'll give up on me.

Yes he uses that fear. In fact he planted that little seed for you.

Don't worry about responding to me. I won't go out and sleep with somebody this weekend.

That is not what healthy love looks like.

You aren't getting the time you need to see what life can be like without his influence. Perhaps he is afraid you might like it?


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, October 11th (Friday)

You always have the option of attending your BF's IC, or meeting with him separately. I did this. There are pros and cons to this, but in your case, where we're not even sure if he's telling the truth about seeing someone, I think it may be a good idea. Does the IC know about the lying about ADs, for example? That's pretty twisted. But only consider this after your NC. You need to block his emails, or it's not really NC.

And personally, I think you should dump the guy. Who needs this drama? He's just causing you grief. Get out while you can, before you get dragged down even further by this manipulative loser.

[This message edited by Blobette at 7:37 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1051 | Registered: Aug 2012
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Hi Lonelygirl10,

Now I'm worrying that his IC is right, and I should be going to counseling with him instead of asking for NC.

No, you are fine. Couples therapy is not what is needed after an A. The wayward spouse (boyfriend) needs IC to work on his issues, why he turns to sleeping with OW when away from you, why he prepares an online dating profile when he feels he may lose you. Why is he not OK with himself? Until he understands these reasons and is working on solutions, he is not able or ready to be a fully functioning participant in an emotionally intimate relationship.

Meanwhile, you as the betrayed GF need time to absorb what you have learned, accept what has happened, process your feelings, and begin to heal. You do not need your wBF for this, as he has shown to be manipulative and untrustworthy. As you get some distance emotionally, and process your feelings and new reality you may decide that you see your wBF doing the hard work to fix his issues, and you are willing to stick around for 3, 6, 12 months to see if he sustains the change. OTOH, you may get some distance and realize you have been compensating a lot for his shortcomings in the relationship, and that you are ready to leave the relationship.

MC (couples counseling) is not needed or of benefit until you have progressed through your feelings, have regained trust in your wBF, and are prepared accept your wBF as a full member of the relationship, AND your wBF has identified and owned his issues that led to his As, and he is well into making progress on addressing these issues with new behaviors and perceptions.

I'm scared that if I say no to him, it will hurt him. And I'm scared that if I hurt him, he will leave me. I'm scared that if I say no, he won't be there in 30 days.

So this seems like as good a place as any for you to begin your work. Why does this scare you, and why are you concerned about a person who has betrayed you so severely leaving you? Why does your saying no “hurt” him? Did you wait 30 days while he was in Argentina? (he didn’t)

I think he just misses me and he's trying to do everything possible to get me back.

No, he is trying to manipulate you to come back on his terms. Doing everything possible would be much less telling you why and how you are wrong, and instead telling you what he has learned about how he was wrong, and what he can/is doing to fix himself, and thanking you for giving him opportunity.

best wishes,

--Ats

ETA: I missed that he is reading your posts on SI and using your thread to by-pass your NC request. In my opinion he is certainly putting his wants ahead of your needs.

I think you should look at who he is. Not who you thought that he was in the past, not who you hope he may be, but the him you see right now. Then, ask yourself if this is a person you can or even want to build a life with?

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:28 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4081 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Interesting...that an hour and a half after you posted this thread,he contacts you letting you know he has read it. It's almost as if he sent those emails..then watched SI for your reaction..so he could then determine his response..this is pure manipulation..and you know it. You WANT to believe otherwise,but you know better.

His email is all about him. Still. It has nothing to do with respecting you or your needs. He is telling you that you are wrong and so is your IC. His IC is only hearing his side of this. Just because this IC has been in business for many years..does not mean he is qualified to handle infidelity. We see it all the time on here..many IC's seem incompetent when it comes to reconciliation after a betrayal of this magnitude.

I don't believe he just misses you and is trying to do anything he can to get you back. If this were true,he would respect your wishes.

You have been trying to R for the last 6 months..during this time he has lied about the past and the present..he has been manipulating you all along..he has treated this like it's a game. All you asked for was honesty.

Honestly..who cares what HIS IC said?? YOU have an IC,one that you feel is very capable,and you know your own mind. He is trying to tell you he knows what is best for you...he's done a pretty shitty job of doing what is best for you so far,hasn't he?

Block him. Email him one more time and tell him the 30 day NC starts over..today..and then block him. He has shown you he doesn't care what you want..this is just another example in a long line of many..so the chances of him respecting your request are slim to none. So YOU take control of your life and this situation. Block him.

It is not mean to do what is good for you. It is not mean to try to clear your head so you can make healthy choices.

[This message edited by confused615 at 7:51 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7133 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, October 11th (Friday)

This is so disappointing to learn.
i'd hoped he was better than this, on so many levels.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 347 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I won't go out and sleep with somebody this weekend.

It's not a hall pass; it's not Ross & Rachel "yes, I slept with OP but we were on a break."

I thought the purpose of 30 days NC was for each individual to work on his/her respective issues (yes, you both have issues.)

Grow up! Don't use SI as a covert message board.

If you need an analogy: military families deal with NC frequently during deployment.

It's possible to survive separation. It's possible to survive infidelity.

But you need to resolve individual issues if you want to be a healthy couple.



"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Grow up! Don't use SI as a covert message board.

I'm not! I literally have no friends or family that I can talk to about this stuff. I started out on a different website than SI, and was suspicious that he was creating fake profiles to give me advice (which I later found out to be true). I moved to SI to try to find a safe place to deal with all this crap. I didn't tell him that I was on either website. He found me on both. Last night when I read his emails, I felt this compulsion to respond. I typed several responses, and didn't send them. The main reason that I haven't responded yet is because of the support that people on SI are giving me. I am not using SI as a way to communicate with him. If I wanted to communicate with him, I'd just send him the 10 emails I've drafted by now. I am trying to not communicate with him, but I have my own set of issues that is making that hard.

Thank you everyone that responded. I'm feeling more centered and assured now.

MC (couples counseling) is not needed or of benefit until you have progressed through your feelings, have regained trust in your wBF, and are prepared accept your wBF as a full member of the relationship, AND your wBF has identified and owned his issues that led to his As, and he is well into making progress on addressing these issues with new behaviors and perceptions.

Thank you for your post. It really helped reading it, and helped to remind me why I asked for the NC.

So this seems like as good a place as any for you to begin your work. Why does this scare you, and why are you concerned about a person who has betrayed you so severely leaving you? Why does your saying no “hurt” him? Did you wait 30 days while he was in Argentina? (he didn’t)

My saying no hurts him because (I think) he'll see my no as me not caring about him. I'm scared about him leaving me because I'm starting to realize that I have my own set of issues of being scared of being alone. I'm scared that he'll think I'm not doing enough work, and that I wasn't trying hard enough. My IC has been focused on me realizing that I have done everything that I can, but I'm not to the point where I actually believe that yet. When he said the things that his IC said, it struck that nerve. I'm always scared of being the one that destroys the relationship, of not doing enough.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I strongly suggest that members with advice PM LonelyGirl10, and if LG10 wants advice from someone who has not PMed her, she initiates the PM.

I hope your WBF can sort out his issues, but for the time being, him reading your posts and using them to communicate with you constitutes a breach of NC.

(((hugs)))


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Okay, I'll stop posting on SI for this month. I can't control him reading, but I guess I can control my writing.

It makes me angry. I love using SI. Not only for creating my own posts, but also responding to other peoples' posts and providing support for other people.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, October 11th (Friday)

My IC has been focused on me realizing that I have done everything that I can, but I'm not to the point where I actually believe that yet.

gently, you need to explore and understand this aspect your your self, and learn and practice new perceptions and responses to your internal fears before you are really ready to pursue an intimate relationship with your wBF or anyone.

I sent you a PM.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4081 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I don't think you should allow him to take this from you.

I do think you should block him for the next 30 days so you don't know what he reads or what he doesn't. It will at least pull *him* out of the equation. Just don't read ANYTHING he sends you.

I think you need extra support, and you have a good IC, but I'm not sure you are completely aware of how subtle the manipulation has become.

Subtle but just as hurtful.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Don't stop posting. Just don't contact him and don't allow him to contact you.

Also,considering that he has been so sneaky about creating profiles on other sites,stalks your posts here,has gotten the pass code for your phone,without your permission 3 or 4 times...I don't think it matters much if we post on the board to LG, or through PM's. Chances are strong that he has her password for SI so he can read her PM's.

I don't think you are the one in this relationship that is misusing SI.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7133 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I do think you should block him for the next 30 days so you don't know what he reads or what he doesn't. It will at least pull *him* out of the equation. Just don't read ANYTHING he sends you.

That's a good point. If I'm not reading his messages, then there's no chance that I'm inadvertently trying to communicate with him through SI. I think I'm going to set up my email to where all his messages go automatically to a folder instead of my inbox. I won't open the folder until the end of the 30 days. The problem will be whether or not I'm strong enough to not check that folder.

ETA:

He just sent me another email as I was typing this. I already failed, and read it. It was more angry sounding. He said that he's deleting his facebook profile, won't read my SI, deleting my phone number, etc, etc. He said that he was honestly trying in the other email, not being manipulative. He said that he feels like he can't win no matter what. He said that he can't stand to think that he's really trying, and he's still being viewed as a manipulative person. I feel like this is my fear coming true. I didn't respond, and now he's pulling away. I'm back to fighting the urge to respond, and I'm crying at work again.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 9:20 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I really feel for you.

Of course he's angry. Of course he's getting defensive about "manipulation", because he is still reading here even though he told you he wouldn't. He has no intention of giving you space. He has still been reading our responses and he is desperately trying to retain 'control". He knows how operate the dysfunctional system that is your relationship. Do not respond. Call your IC, use the PM feature here, talk to someone anyone else but him right now.

He isn't pulling away, he's reeling you in.

When is your next IC appt? Maybe you should get yourself back in ASAP.

((LG10))


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, October 11th (Friday)

My next IC is Tuesday.

I just checked, and he deactivated his facebook profile and removed me from Find My Friends GPS tracker on his iphone. When we agreed to the 30 days, he said that he would keep his passwords the same so I could check to make sure he wasn't cheating on me. He said that he would leave his GPS tracker on so I could see that he wasn't cheating on me. He said that he would respect the NC, but that he wanted me to feel safe during the NC. To know that he wasn't doing anything bad. He just took away my safety net.

He phrased it in his email as him doing the right thing for me by doing NC completely, but I don't believe it. I think he did this stuff today out of anger. I feel like he's trying to punish me. I'm scared that he's going to go out tonight and do something stupid. And without the GPS tracker, there's no way for me to know.

I know that me monitoring him isn't a good thing, but it made me feel safe. He has taken away my safety.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Bottom line: he's an asshole. Why are you letting him torture you this way? THAT's what you should be discussing in IC, not what you can do to "make sure he doesn't cheat". You really want to live with a guy who does this to you? Why do you want to live in fear? This is all manipulation, and you're right, he IS punishing you. What a child. You need to get yourself strong enough that you can look at this and see what an ass he is.

Love is when someone cares for you and your feelings. Love isn't demanding, it is giving. This guy just takes from you, and doesn't give. He's asking YOU to prove YOUR LOVE for him. What the HELL is he doing? Using every stupid technique to keep you engaged that he can think of. And it stops when you stop playing.

[This message edited by Blobette at 9:54 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1051 | Registered: Aug 2012
Kierst13
Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, October 11th (Friday)

On top of being a master at manipulation he is also throwing a major tantrum.

You did not play his game so he is taking his toys and going home. *IF* he is in therapy, he is not being honest with his therapist AND he is lying to you about what he is being told.

Everything he types is manipulation. It is how they get us to stay when the glaring red letters on the wall tell us to RUN.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, October 11th (Friday)

He said that he feels like he can't win no matter what.

This is a classic line from the Cheater’s Manual. FWW said that to me too, it is a way to allow them to give up trying; after all it is doing no good. Here is the thing, for your wBF to really identify, own, and fix his issues, he has to do it for himself, regardless of you staying or going. He has to not want to be the guy who flirts with OW and has sex in order to feel safe or validated. The difficult internal work to own and address one’s internal issues cannot be done for someone else; it must be done because the individual has a very real desire to be a different and healthier person.

He said that he can't stand to think that he's really trying, and he's still being viewed as a manipulative person.

A week into it is not really trying. FWW is 4 years since dday and still working on her crap. She is better, will never be “healed”, but keeps at it because she no longer wants to be that person who needed the attention and affirmation of others to feel OK about herself.

I feel like this is my fear coming true. I didn't respond, and now he's pulling away.

You already know you need to work on this fear. Many of us find that when we reach a point where we know we will be OK without our M, without our FWS, that is when we find the path and strength to actually be a healthy and willing participant in our M with our FWS (fwB/GF). There was a time I was afraid of losing my W, even after I discovered her LTAs, her regularly meeting OM for sex, giving them things sexually she would not do with me, travelling out of town with them, sexting and texting them, looking to them for life advise. I had to do the work in IC and reading to understand where this came from. Why I professed to love a person who treated me with such disregard. Once I understood this dynamic within myself, I was OK showing her the door if she was not happy with me. I was OK leaving through that door if I was not happy with her.

I agree with the advice from the others to ignore everything he sends, all his communication, until you feel strong enough to be free of his manipulation. At the end of the 30 days, feel free to tell him you will need another 30, 60, or 90 days if that is how you feel. Use this time to work on you, expand your social network to have friends to talk with and have fun with. Shore up your finances, explore interesting hobbies or classes. Build a fun and interesting life independent of him. None of this will hurt, it will all be good if you decide to stay and see if he can fix himself and be the person you want. OTOH, it lays the ground work for the rest of your happy life if you decide to move on.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4081 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, October 11th (Friday)

My oldest son used to lie..all the time. About everything..really..everything. Of course,this caused him to be "in trouble" a lot. He would also get really pissed when he would swear he was being honest,and he was angry that I didn't believe him.

I told him when you lie all the time, then he could expect people to not believe him when he was actually being honest..because how am I supposed to know the difference.

But..then..he was a kid. Not a grown adult.

He took your safety net to punish you. Ok,he deleted his facebook. Most WS's do that shortly after dday because they want to R. And NOW he is going to go NC completely...now that he is mad that his manipulations aren't working.

He won't. He will continue to contact you. Sending his emails to their own folder won't help..as you said,you already read the latest one. Blocking would be your best bet.

Please take care of yourself. He sounds like he is getting desperate.

[This message edited by confused615 at 10:03 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7133 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I've typed so many responses to his email, and I keep deleting all of them without sending them.

I have to leave now to go out of town with my boss. I have a big deposition that I have to do today. My head is not in a good place. I won't have access to email at all though, so maybe it's a blessing.

I felt good after his last email last night, like he was trying to give me what I asked for. He said that he saw that I had a legimitate need for NC, and that he would meet that need. I didn't respond, and he kept reading the SI posts. He got angry, and wasn't able to control those feelings. And I feel like he lashed out at me by deleting all his stuff. This is exactly what I was scared of, and exactly what I asked for the month apart. I did it partially for myself, and partially to test him.

Okay, I have to leave now. Thank you so much everyone for all the support you've given me.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, October 11th (Friday)

He phrased it in his email as him doing the right thing for me by doing NC completely

Of course he did, LG. And I think that as you become more stronger and sure in yourself.....that he will begin to denigrate your use of SI.

He is very manipulative. And it is so subtle that I think that it's just *how* he operates in the world. He is manipulating you through *guilt*. He's using a kind of reverse-psychology on you, and then adding words from an *authority* to give his viewpoint more weight.

Pure.Manipulation.

Work on that *guilt* feeling that you have in IC. You'll be able to see the manipulation a lot more clearly once you develop techniques to pick apart a conversation or situation in a more objective manner.

As for whether or not he cheats on you again.....you have every right to be concerned about this, since that is his *history* and what he has done in the past. But really, if he does this....then it's on him and has nothing to do with you.

Work on overcoming your OWN fears....that way you'll find the strength to overcome and withstand his manipulations. Your feelings/needs/wants should be respected, not used as ammunition against you by your wayward as an excuse to *act out*.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7694 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, October 11th (Friday)

he deactivated his facebook profile and removed me from Find My Friends GPS tracker on his iphone. When we agreed to the 30 days, he said that he would keep his passwords the same so I could check to make sure he wasn't cheating on me. He said that he would leave his GPS tracker on so I could see that he wasn't cheating on me.

Would you agree he has failed to respect your boundaries, LG?

[This message edited by ladies_first at 10:16 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Is there any way your IC can talk to you over the phone or via Skype today, tonight or even tomorrow? I'd ask. Mine will do that for me when I'm having a really tough time.

(((((LG10)))))

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 2:48 PM, October 11th (Friday)]


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
imagoodwitch
Member
Member # 23375
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Lonleygirl10,

This 30 days NC is for you and only you and so far he hasn't respected your request.

Sometimes you just need a break especially when you have found out about more lies.

Take this time to clear your head and figure out what you want out of this relationship.

Don't second guess yourself on this one.

You need this time to figure out what you want without his influence.


I am just your ordinary average everyday sane psycho supergoddess - Liz Phair

Don't keep dancing with the Devil and wonder why you are still in Hell.

It's all shits and giggles until someone giggles and shits.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Munchkinland
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, October 11th (Friday)

And I think that as you become more stronger and sure in yourself.....that he will begin to denigrate your use of SI.

My STBX did this in regards to my relationship with my IC and the activities she had me do plus the books she had me read. He became a complete martyr. The more healthy I became, the more angry alt w/ martyred he became. He would insult me, insult my IC, openly laugh at me when I'd use notes she & I had worked on together to try and have a healthy, productive conversation with him. He'd tell me he hated who I was becoming, he didn't recognize me, I was ruining everything. He tried to shame me, guilt me, spiritually (religiously) abuse me, all in an attempt to reel me back in.

This is what's happening to you now. I'm so sorry. I know what it's like to be torn in two this way. (((HUGS)))


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9254 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, October 11th (Friday)

He phrased it in his email as him doing the right thing for me by doing NC completely, but I don't believe it. I think he did this stuff today out of anger. I feel like he's trying to punish me. I'm scared that he's going to go out tonight and do something stupid

Others have already addressed his lashing out, so I won't add to that.

Hopefully you are capable of seeing how predictable his acting out is. The fact that he thinks that he has been really trying is extremely concerning. That he can't see how he is being manipulative is frightening. Hopefully his counseling will help him in that regard.

It is laughable that he broke NC, but excuses it as letting you know what he was up to.

However, you have to focus on your fear that he will do something "stupid". You are not in control of anyone. Having the GPS tracker was false confirmation. You have no idea what someone is doing. All someone has to do is leave their phone at home, or in the office, and go do whatever they want.

You are not in control of his outcome.

Yes, it is probable that he will go do something to soothe his ego and then blame the outcome on you because you asked for NC.

It is futile to think that you, and he, should work on issues as a couple when there is so much to work on individually before either of you are emotionally healthy.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 347 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, October 11th (Friday)

I was reading some of your responses and a cold shiver went down my spine. I could not be in such a controlling relationship. He stalked you on other boards and SI to give you false advice, to keep tabs on you and ultimately control you.

Doesn't sound like a loving trusting relationship to me.

I don't have any advice to give, I just hope you are able to look at things logically during your 30 days of NC and decide what kind of relationship you want and if this man is capable of that.


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Lg,

And this is exactly the type of stuff that pulls me in. I've been doing reading on boundaries, and I see that my main boundary problem is not wanting to hurt other people by saying no. So I can see exactly how this is playing out for me right now.

You say this, and then you ask if you're doing the right thing? if your IC is correct?

I'm scared that if I say no to him, it will hurt him. And I'm scared that if I hurt him, he will leave me. I'm scared that if I say no, he won't be there in 30 days.

That's a big problem - fearing something that would be so good for you.

I guess this is a 2 X 4:

In general, you're out of your mind.

The content of his messages is almost totally irrelevant. The really relevant fact is that he broke NC.

He broke NC. He violated your boundaries. AGAIN.

The very least you need to do is tell him you're resetting the clock to 30 days from the time of your reset-the-clock message, and tell him any further contact will result in resetting the clock again.

That's all. Do not respond to his content.

Of course, you could say, 'I'm done with this relationship. Do not contact me ever again.' You could be gentle, but that would be a good sentence to send.

OTOH, you could also do the 30 days of NC in the hope that he would go away. Then it's his choice, and maybe he'd never harass you again. That seems like a coward's way out, but it may be best with this guy.

Also, his IC has known him for only a few hours. He hardly knows him at all. The trial separation is useful only in some cases, and your manipulative boyfriend (emphasis on boy) hasn't shown his true colors yet. He hasn't told his IC, if he ever will, your real reasons for going NC, and he hasn't revealed, if he ever will, his own dysfunctions. In fact, he probably ignores everything you've ever said that he can't use for his own interests.

His IC's duty is to help your Wbf get what he wants. All the IC has to go on is what your Wbf tells him, and your Wbf is in this only for himself. The content of his messages is dangerous to you. Ignore it.

You're a lawyer, for crying out loud! Represent and protect yourself the way you would a client!

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:35 AM, October 11th (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9755 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, October 11th (Friday)

The very least you need to do is tell him you're resetting the clock to 30 days

LG contacting him exposes her to more abuse. I don't think she needs to tell him this, just needs to do it.

He already mentioned that if she wanted to reset the clock, he understood. So.be.it.

You're a lawyer, for crying out loud! Represent and protect yourself the way you would a client!

Absolutely!!!! Applause!


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 347 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Hoping you're okay, LG.

I wanted to add that I have been on his side of a brief separation with my WH.

It was hard. But a few days in, things started to click and we both started getting the help we needed, and I finally began to let go of the outcome -- which is the only way an authentic relationship can exist. Our M prior to the separation was toxic. It still needs a lot of work, and both WH and I still have independent work to do.

My point is, just as I had to respect WH's request for space, your WBF needs to honor your need for space. It is the only way to even begin to heal. And as in any aspect of human relationships, the outcome cannot be guaranteed.

You've been asked a lot of thought provoking questions on this thread. Consider them and bring them to your ic. Maybe see if you can start seeing your ic 2x a week during this crisis.

Everything will be ok in the end. If its not ok, its not the end. And you are not solely responsible for making anything ok.


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I just got home from work, and read everyone's responses. I'm not in a good place tonight.

One thing I thought about today while driving was that this situation was (sort of) reversed last December. We were talking about getting engaged, and then he asked for no contact in December out of the blue. He said it was because he was depressed, and he needed to be alone to work through it. It crushed me, but I respected his wishes. I never initiated contact with him. I would respond if he messaged me, but I never initiated it. He would periodically once a week ask to see me, and I would agree. Each time I'd get my hopes up, and then he'd say that he needed more time. During those 3 months, he still had us listed as "in a relationship on facebook." There was one Thursday where he asked to see me on a Sunday, and I said yes. He said he would text me on Saturday with a time and location. I waited, and got nothing. I waited all day Sunday too, and got nothing. He completely stood me up. I didn't initiate contact after that though. I didn't delete him from facebook. I didn't lash out at him. I did nothing. He contacted me like 2 days later, and I asked him why. But I never lashed out at him. I respected his wishes for no contact, even though he was continuously playing with my emotions during those three months. I didn't know it at the time, but he was seeing the OW during those months.

The rational part of my brain thinks that me asking for no contact was reasonable. I tried for 6 months to R, and it was all lies. I gave him a strict end point of NC, and I'm not jerking him around by asking to see him and then standing him up. I told him I need a month alone, and then we would talk again.

He made it a week, and everything he did was predictable. He tried sending the emails last night of what his IC said. That didn't work, so he sent a very nice email about respecting my needs. Still no response, so he lashed out and deleted his facebook and GPS tracker. Still no response, so he sent me a text saying that he's hurting. He said in the text that he was just trying to send his girlfriend a sweet email saying that he wanted to see her, and he doesn't see how that's bad. Then he brought his facebook back, sent me an invite on the GPS app again. Nothing since then. Since I haven't responded still, I'm guessing that he's starting to reach the point where he's thinking that I don't care about him anymore. And I'm scared that when he reaches that point, he'll create a dating profile. Or go out with a girl. Or go to a strip club. Or whatever.

Here is the thing, for your wBF to really identify, own, and fix his issues, he has to do it for himself, regardless of you staying or going. He has to not want to be the guy who flirts with OW and has sex in order to feel safe or validated. The difficult internal work to own and address one’s internal issues cannot be done for someone else; it must be done because the individual has a very real desire to be a different and healthier person.

That is exactly the reason why I wanted to do a month apart. He was so focused on lying to me every day about all the things he was doing to fix us. I wanted him to stop worrying about me, and focus on himself. I wanted him to want to be a better person FOR HIMSELF. Instead of spending so much energy trying to pretend to go to counseling, why not just actually go? I thought the NC would be tough love, and force him to actually do the work instead of just lying to me about doing the work.

I was reading old emails from him, and found the old counseling emails. I feel nauseous now reading them. Here's part of one from May about his IC (who I now know didn't actually exist):

So today I went and had another counseling session after work. We talked a lot about what you and your counselor had talked about and what me and you talked about after that. I asked him if he thought I had a personality disorder. He told me that there were good things about my personality and bad things. He said it was the same way with everybody. He told me that everybody has positive strengths and then things they wish they could change about themselves.

I also found out more about the stalking charges that OW filed. He was with me the whole weekend, except for about 6 hours when he went to his dad's house. His email last night said that she showed up the night before that looking for him, and he wasn't where he said he was going to be. I guess she texted him or something, because somehow he found that out. The next day when he left my house, he texted her apologizing for lying. She told him to not contact her again. Then he said that he got a voicemail from a cop warning him to leave her alone. He left her alone until that Monday, and he texted her again apologizing. Two hours later he was arrested.

That hurts me, but is kind of what I suspected. He also admitted finally in the emails last night that he wasn't planning on confessing, but had to after he got arrested. I sort of already assumed that, but he had denied it the past 6 months. He made a big deal out of the fact that he confessed, and said he had done it because he respected me. I think the whole stalking thing really bothers me because I wonder whether he really wanted her, and I'm just second choice. Once she shut him down, did he just go back to me because I was the only thing left? It makes me feel like he didn't actually want me, didn't choose me. I was just his only option.

This is what's happening to you now. I'm so sorry. I know what it's like to be torn in two this way.

I do feel like I'm being torn in half. There's the part of me that is starting to learn about my boundary issues. I'm trying so hard to be strong and actually DO the things that I'm learning. But then there's the part of me that just wants to take away all his hurt. I want to make him feel loved. I want to be there for him. I want to support him. And when he sends me messages saying that he's broken and that he's hurting, I just want to respond so badly. I've probably typed literally 30 emails today to him, and I haven't sent any of them. I feel like my insides are being shredded.

There's also the part of me that's really doubting everything that I'm thinking right now. What if he is really trying, and I'm giving up that opportunity? What if he really has figured stuff out? What if the emails weren't manipulation last night? What if he really is remorseful? What if I'm screwing up something that could be good, if I would just put effort into it now? What if I'm giving up too soon?

However, you have to focus on your fear that he will do something "stupid". You are not in control of anyone. Having the GPS tracker was false confirmation. You have no idea what someone is doing. All someone has to do is leave their phone at home, or in the office, and go do whatever they want.

I know, and this is hard. He sent me an invite for the GPS app again, and I want so badly to accept it. But he can do whatever he wants to regardless of whether I'm monitoring his location or not. I think the scary part is that after the month of NC, he really has no incentive to tell me the truth. So if he has sex with someone during this month, how would I even know? That part really scares me.

I've been reading about boundaries, and I'm learning some good stuff. I know that I usually respond yes out of fear of losing the person. My book says that if a person only stays with you when you do exactly what they want, then it's not a healthy relationship. In a healthy relationship, the person would be able to tolerate and understand my no.

I feel miserable. I wish there was a way to just turn off all the thoughts in my head. I considered just drinking a lot tonight at home, but that usually makes me more depressed. All these thoughts are going back and forth in my head, and I'm just completely miserable. I don't even want to hang out with friends because it requires too much energy to pretend to be a normal person right now.

My counselor told me last week that I am the most stubborn person that she has ever met for not wanting to give up on a relationship. She also said that I am able to tolerate more emotional pain than anyone she's treated.

I am completely miserable.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I'm also just scared that I'm being an uncaring bitch by ignoring him like this. I keep reading his texts, and he sounds like he's in so much pain. And I just feel mean by not responding to him. I have the ability to make him feel better. I could text him, and ask him to come over. And by not doing that, I just feel mean. He's probably sitting at home thinking that I don't love him. I do love him.

I wish so badly that he had gone the month just working on himself, and then we could have done the counseling that his IC suggested at the end of that month. I would have felt like he respected my boundaries, and we could have started fresh.

I am so scared that he's going to sleep with someone this weekend. I think I need to take some sleeping pills. Every time I close my eyes, I just picture him with another girl. And I feel like I have the power to stop that from happening because I could just invite him over to my house. But I can't always be the one stopping that. He has to do it on his own. In order for me to feel safe, I have to know that he can control his own emotions.

Arg!!


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, October 11th (Friday)

You are miserable because you insist on toting this load around. LG, this is really a double edged sword. You have this as an outlet and I know you are getting excellent advise however, as long as your BF can read these posts he has the real advantage of knowing exactly what angle to use to get to you.

He hasn't figured anything out. Nothing but, lies have come out of his mouth. He has imaginary counselors and tells you exactly what he wants you to believe and, you fall for it. How long has it been since he made a post? As much as you want to believe it, he is not interested in changing himself. He wants to change who you are to fit into his world which BTW, is dysfunctional.

I'm encouraged to see you take a stand with the NC. It truly is baby steps but, you have to let go of your fear of what he might do. You can't control it and you are making yourself crazy trying.


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 639 | Registered: Apr 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, October 11th (Friday)

What do you get out of this relationship?


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, October 11th (Friday)

What do you get out of this relationship?

Right now, nothing.

This time last year, it was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I want to get that back.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, October 11th (Friday)

Gently...what if you can't?


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I don't know. I think NC was my last hope. Nothing else worked, and he was still lying daily. So I thought that tough love would force him to do the work that would get us back to that point.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, October 11th (Friday)

This time last year, it was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I want to get that back.

Ummm .... Remember this?
I guess the longest that he's gone with only having sex with me is May-November 2012 and April 2013 - present... So... six months. ETA: I kept reading that over and over. We've been together almost 2 years. And the longest that he's been faithful to me is 6 months. It's been another 6 months since the last time he slept with another girl, so I guess it's about time for him to do it again.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, October 11th (Friday)

The way that I saw him is that he cannot be alone and that he is terrified of being abandoned. When he was in Argentina for a month, he slept with another girl. When he was feeling insecure in December, he slept with a second girl. When he thought he might lose me after Dday, he created a dating profile while trying to win me back.

^^^THESE are the things that he should be talking to his IC about.

Right now he's wasting money and just keeping the IC's furniture warm. He's using IC as a way to tell YOU that what you need/want is *wrong*.

He is an absolutely unsafe partner for you right now.

He's broken and he's hurting, but that is HIS issue to deal with. YOU cannot fix it for him.

I'm seeing a pattern with him. Re-read the part about the stalking charge. That chick was telling him to 'leave her alone' and he just kept on and kept on with the contact. But he has 'morphed' that and turned himself into the victim because "what the heck? I was just apologizing to her!" But the fact is that she told him to leave her the hell alone and he didn't.

Stop doubting yourself. Those emails were manipulation. Plain and simple. He hasn't figured anything out.

I'm really sorry that his *true* being has put a kink in your life-plan, but you have to let go of the outcome and attempting to recover what you *thought* that you had. Last year you were the happiest that you had ever been in your life....but you were with a ticking time bomb. You don't want to go back to that. And the fact that you are so concerned that he is going to *act out* is proof that you know that the bomb continues to tick........

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 10:05 PM, October 11th (Friday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7694 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
iggyD
Member
Member # 36171
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, October 11th (Friday)

I'm also just scared that I'm being an uncaring bitch by ignoring him like this. I keep reading his texts, and he sounds like he's in so much pain. And I just feel mean by not responding to him. I have the ability to make him feel better. I could text him, and ask him to come over. And by not doing that, I just feel mean. He's probably sitting at home thinking that I don't love him. I do love him....

Gently, LG - ^^^^^ This is not NC. You know that he is reading what you're writing. So he's not guessing anything, he knows, because you're telling him. At least be honest with yourself about what you're doing. Everyone here believes that you should go NC, but until YOU believe that you should be NC it's not going to work. And really that's ok. We all have to process and handle things in our own time, when we're ready.
But you have to be honest about what you're doing.

I have found that when I've had enough of something, no one has to say word or try to convince me of anything. You said your IC mentioned that you're stubborn, so maybe that's the case with you. When you've really had enough, he'll be able to text, email, phone, fedex, telegraph, smoke signal or whatever else, and it won't phase you because YOU will have had enough and be ready for true NC.


2012 was a bitch...but I'm hopeful about 2013.

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2012
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, October 11th (Friday)

But you have to be honest about what you're doing.

You're right. I'm trying to enforce my boundaries, but I do know that my messages on here are being read. Which is not truly enforcing my boundaries.

I guess I see me not responding to his emails and not asking him to come over as a huge step. If this had happened last week, I would have asked him to come over tonight. In reality it's just a baby step I guess.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
iggyD
Member
Member # 36171
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, October 11th (Friday)

((LG))

Baby steps are a start right?


2012 was a bitch...but I'm hopeful about 2013.

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2012
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, October 11th (Friday)

This time last year, it was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I want to get that back.

You can't get that back because you aren't that same person anymore. Your eyes are opened. You still are walking in denial, but you know what's going on. Your subconscious knows. You can pretend, of course. Rug sweep. Fake it. But you know the truth. There's no going back.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9254 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 4:22 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

The whole stalking thing should bother you because he was stalking that woman. So much so that she had to call the police and ask that they call him and tell him to leave her alone. It should bother you that he IGNORED that warning from the cop..and contacted her anyway. You're an attorney. The police told this man to no longer contact this woman..and he ignored the police and did it any way.

And,basically,he is doing the same thing to you. He is stalking you. He has been for awhile now. And,like that woman, you asked for NC..and like that situation..he ignored it. The only difference here is the police didn't tell him to stay away..yet.

You say you were so happy a year ago..but he was cheating.

You don't know this man. You only know the things he has told you..and you have found out that most of those things were lies. You are in love with a man who never existed.

Stop worrying about him. He is reading your posts. He knows how upset you are. He knows how worried you are about him. You need to start worrying about YOU.

ETA: We often advice BS's to get a restraining order because the crazy AP's won't go away...what we advise is exactly what that woman did. HE was her crazy AP..think about that for a minute.

[This message edited by confused615 at 4:23 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7133 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 4:44 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

Read above a million times and I have my own question for you

I want you to tell us how you met/ dating, the whole story (just the beginning, tell us what your best qualities were, if you were at a hard/easy stage of life etc etc. No i'm not saying he stalked you or anything like into dating him. Take as many words as you need. Describe the most vivid details

I want you to give it a go. If you feel weird about it you can PM but it's a really really useful exercise I did out of my fave marriage book. It's about recognizing the relationship for what it is. Your own truth.

When you type it I want you to be in your full emotions.

Then I want you to re-read your story and see how it makes you feel.

I'm all for the recognising the behaviours and us shoving it down your throat, truly I feel compelled to do it. But I want you to take the time and actually start a reflection process of your relationship with him. NC is for you as well, but you're not treating it that way.

Ofcourse internet safety and all that so maybe don't actually say "we met at starbucks on this street_____ I met my friend Jo who went to uni with me which is btw _____ and we graduated____" More like "we met at a coffee shop and I was with a friend"


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

ETA: We often advice BS's to get a restraining order because the crazy AP's won't go away...what we advise is exactly what that woman did. HE was her crazy AP..think about that for a minute.

I have thought about that a lot. He had originally told me that she was single, and she did it out of revenge when she found out he was seeing me. Even with the new information, I think he still honestly believes that. He said that she was upset when she found out that he was lying to her about his location, and that she used her connections on the police force to punish him. He said that when he was arrested, the woman cop apologized and said she knew it wasn't real or something. And it is weird that at his trial, neither the OW or the cop that arrested him showed up. The trial was continued to give them another chance to show up, and they didn't the second time either. So the charges were dismissed.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I think she was angry because he was dating me, and so she did NC. When he broke it, she was not nearly as nice as I am and called the cops. And, I think he probably wanted to continue dating both of us. I don't think he knew which one of us he preferred. He told me that he chose me, but was trying to keep her calm so that she wouldn't tell me everything.

I want you to tell us how you met/ dating, the whole story (just the beginning, tell us what your best qualities were, if you were at a hard/easy stage of life etc etc. No i'm not saying he stalked you or anything like into dating him. Take as many words as you need. Describe the most vivid details

We met on an online dating website, and traded really long emails for probably 2-3 weeks before we met in person. I probably became attached to him in his emails, because everything that he said about himself checked off all my boxes of things I was looking for. Our first date was at a Mexican restaurant, and it was fun. He hugged me when we met. He was very nervous. I was driving, and he sat far away from me with his legs turned away from me. After the date, he texted me asking for a second date. I said yes. It was Christmas time, and I went out of town for it. While at my parents' house, I got a weird email from him about all the things he thought he screwed up about the date. He was basing it off an episode of How I Met Your Mother. I thought it was weird, and stopped responding to him. He wrote another email apologizing and explaining that it was a joke. I just wrote it off as saying he wasn't very confident, and went out with him again. We went on four dates I think, and then he asked me to be exclusive. I agreed. And the first year of our relationship was nearly perfect, with hardly any arguments. I had no clue that he was cheating on me. I would occasionally joke with him about that weird email he wrote me. After getting to know him, I thought it was cute and funny.

I was at a good point of my life when I met him. I was dating a lot online, but hadn't met anyone who checked off all my boxes. I had been living in my town with my new job for about a year. I had friends in my town. I was happy and confident with myself, but was ready to settle down and start to find someone I could marry since I felt like I was getting older.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 7:13 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

I got a weird email from him about all the things he thought he screwed up about the date. He was basing it off an episode of How I Met Your Mother. I thought it was weird, and stopped responding to him. He wrote another email apologizing and explaining that it was a joke.

hadn't met anyone who checked off all my boxes

It's really interesting a lot of your wbf's actions seems delusional to say the least and based off movies and tv shows. the big overt gestures and sneaky behaviour.

It's like he's not too sure about what a relationship is supposed to be.

As silly and weird as it sounds the fact that it was so 'perfect' also seems a bit off. sure we all try and be our best but there's always going to be those stupid fights when you move in together etc etc.

So moving on.

What is the difference between who you are now to who you were then. I don't mean to go "because of him blah blah" try and take a stock list

e.g before I was confident in _____
now I don't feel confident, in that, infact I feel like this ______

try and break it down

I think you're going really well


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

It is frustrating how you repeatedly try to interpret your WBF's behavior in the most benign light, and say that's because you're "nice". You also take his claims of being hurt or in pain way, way too seriously. He know it makes you feel guilty (for not being "nice") and plays on that. We hear a LOT about his pain and his perspective, but very very little about yours. I'm still waiting for you to get MAD that your BF fucked other women. He had SEX with them. And LIED to you about it, as well as a whole host of other things. This guy is a crazed lunatic stalker manipulative loser. Why are you not ANGRY with him for lying to you? Why do you keep giving him the benefit of the doubt? Emotionally healthy is New York, and this guy is Beijing.

I really want you to think about why you want to salvage this relationship so much. What is your history of relationships, and your FOO? Were you abused? Did your father not treat your mother respectfully? Was there an ethic that women have to make do and keep their men happy?


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1051 | Registered: Aug 2012
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

I think OW was angry because he was dating me, and so she did NC. When he broke it, she was not nearly as nice as I am

My counselor told me last week that I am the most stubborn person that she has ever met for not wanting to give up on a relationship. She also said that I am able to tolerate more emotional pain than anyone she's treated.

So, being "nice" to men who treat you badly leaves you in unbearable emotional pain?

What is your own personal dealbreaker, LG10? Until you make peace with your line in the sand, he's going to keep pushing your boundaries while you retreat, stubbornly, and swallow the pain.

It's called self-respect. If you don't respect yourself, LonelyGirl10, no man is going to respect you.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

I disagree that you were in a good place when you met him. You admit that even now you feel guilt and shame over cheating on your ex, and when you met your current WBF, that would have been closer to when that cheating happened and you would have had fresher feelings of guilt and shame, yes? You have also alluded to the fact that maybe you take so much garbage because you feel you deserve it. Doesn't sound like a good place to me. It sounds like someone who is wearing a mask and is terrified to take it off and rebuild herself the way she really wants to be, rather than just putting on the face that she thinks everyone wants to see.

Listen, you are BOTH breaking NC right now. You by posting all this on the open forum and not blocking him from viewing your posts, and him from reading all your posts and continuously emailing and texting you. Seriously dude, why are you being such an idiot?! She has made it clear multiple times that she NEEDS NC for 30 days, and you've read that repeatedly on this thread as well, and you keep contacting her. How thick are you? Leave her alone for 30 days.

LG, you have to block him from reading your threads, and you have to stop passively communicating with him through SI as well. You are giving a drug addict his fix. You ARE replying to him even while giving the appearance that you're not. The only person you are fooling is yourself. You deserve better. You deserve to be honest to yourself. You deserve to have someone who will respect your boundaries. I guess it's kind of silly to expect a guy who has been arrested for stalking the OW, cheated on you several times, lied to you about things such as seeing a counselor and taking prescribed medication, wrote you a "weird" email after your first date and then played it off as a joke, throws tantrums like a 2 year old, and can't control himself for a mere week much less a month. I guess it's silly to expect that guy to respect boundaries. But if he can't, then this (your 2 years of history with him) is what you'll have to look forward to for the rest of your life.

I don't really care what his IC says about his personality disorder or lack thereof, I would bet you a million dollars that he hasn't told his IC any of the stuff that I mentioned in the prior paragraph. I bet he won't tell the IC any of the stuff that has occurred this week, maybe with the exception of his first and second emails where he was being so nice. Surely he'll "forget" to tell IC about his explosive reaction to being called out as a manipulator in a public forum. Surely he hasn't told his IC that he created fake profiles to give you advice on infidelity on that last website you were on. Surely he hasn't told his IC anything that would possibly paint him in a negative light, because that's not how you manipulate people into doing and saying what you want. And who knows if this IC is even real or not... he could have literally looked up a phone number and name in the phone book and gave you that info and never met the guy..... he's done that before, made up an IC.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, October 12th (Saturday)

What is your own personal dealbreaker, LG10? Until you make peace with your line in the sand, he's going to keep pushing your boundaries while you retreat, stubbornly, and swallow the pain.

I thought that I had drawn a line in the sand. My dealbreaker was more lies that were not confessed voluntarily. I had proof of more lies, and I encouraged him to tell me voluntarily for three nights if there was anything else. He didn't. So the fourth day is when I told him I had proof of something, and all the new lies came out. That's when I said 30 days NC.

I'm still waiting for you to get MAD that your BF fucked other women. He had SEX with them. And LIED to you about it, as well as a whole host of other things.

I get mad on TT days, for a few hours. And then it passes. I've never been the type of person that really gets angry. My mood is moderate most of the time. When I really get angry, I usually go over the top. I guess looking back, all of my relationships have ended when I get angry. When I get angry, I just stop putting up with anything. And then the guy literally can't do anything right, and it causes the guy to walk away.

What is your history of relationships, and your FOO? Were you abused? Did your father not treat your mother respectfully? Was there an ethic that women have to make do and keep their men happy?

No abuse. My mom did not treat my dad respectfully. She is a very controlling woman. I grew up wanting to be the opposite of her. There was one time in high school that I upset a friend, and she told me that I was acting like my mom. I usually go very far to make sure that I'm not being controlling. That has played out in most of my relationships. With my ex, he would tell me I was being controlling when I didn't want him spending time with his ex or going to strip clubs, and that caused me to just tolerate those things because I didn't want to be seen as controlling. My mom also had a lot of double standards, so I usually go to the extreme to avoid that too.

I disagree that you were in a good place when you met him. You admit that even now you feel guilt and shame over cheating on your ex, and when you met your current WBF, that would have been closer to when that cheating happened and you would have had fresher feelings of guilt and shame, yes? You have also alluded to the fact that maybe you take so much garbage because you feel you deserve it. Doesn't sound like a good place to me. It sounds like someone who is wearing a mask and is terrified to take it off and rebuild herself the way she really wants to be, rather than just putting on the face that she thinks everyone wants to see.

True. Looking back, I guess I see myself as so much happier and confident than I am now. But, I guess a more realistic view is that I was lonely when I was dating. Both of my best friends had recently gotten married, and I was worried that I was never going to meet someone I could marry. I felt ashamed of my past, and I thought that if I could meet someone new, I could start over. I could be a better person in the next relationship. I didn't tell him at first that I had cheated in the past, so I guess I was wearing a mask too. It wasn't just him that hid himself.

e.g before I was confident in _____
now I don't feel confident, in that, infact I feel like this ______

The main thing I guess is that before I felt confident that men wanted me. Now I feel like I'm not good enough.

Before I felt confident in my looks. Now I feel unattractive.

Before I felt confident in my career. Now I feel like my career is a liability for dating since he felt insecure about my job.

I'll continue to think about those. That's a harder question.

LG, you have to block him from reading your threads, and you have to stop passively communicating with him through SI as well.

I didn't realize there was a way to block someone.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

Gently, you were not happy a year ago. You just attached to someone to avoid your own pain and, I guess, fear that no one will ever care for you.

Stop telling yourself you were happy at the beginning of your 'relationship'. You weren't.

You're a lawyer, and yet you attached to this guy on the basis of a few long e-mails. This guy already has lied, lied, lied to you. You say that's your deal breaker - and the consequence is simply 30 days of NC.

These things are very sad. Shed some tears for yourself, tell yourself you will treat yourself better - and then do that.

Life is a matter of heart head, and guts, but sometime a person has to give control to his/her head. Now is the time for you.

Your emotional reactions and desires are just plain wrong. Follow your head until you train your emotions to serve you.

Make no mistake - you are lovable, loving, and capable. You don't recognize that, but these are facts. Truly, there'll be plenty of healthy people who'll love you for yourself - but finding them requires you to love and respect yourself first.



fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9755 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

In the two years you've been with him, how much time have you spent with his family? How is his relationship with them?


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

before I felt confident that men wanted me. Now I feel like I'm not good enough.

Before I felt confident in my looks. Now I feel unattractive.

Before I felt confident in my career. Now I feel like my career is a liability for dating since he felt insecure about my job

Sooo, he's completely broken you, not followed any of your "lines in the sand" or boundaries, and you still want him because.......


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
k8la
Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

You're giving him credit for a week of NC that isn't earned. He's been stalking you all along.

LG - pretend you are your client.

Your client is dealing with a number of broken agreements from another party. And that party is trying to persuade her to continue doing business with him, extending him more credit.

He's complaining that he defaulted because she wasn't really good at what she did, but then he turns around and tells her he has to have more... and he'll be good this time.

Would you recognize your client is being used in every sense of the word here? Would you sue to help your client recover damages? Would you help her refuse to have any further dealings with this fraud?

You might be kicking yourself now because you've invested 2 years into this. Just think. You could be in this place two years from now and be four years into the same failing relationship.

What would that do for your personal and professional confidence?

Even if he weren't a stalker.


Posts: 121 | Registered: Feb 2013
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

The main thing I guess is that before I felt confident that men wanted me. Now I feel like I'm not good enough.

B

efore I felt confident in my looks. Now I feel unattractive.

Before I felt confident in my career. Now I feel like my career is a liability for dating since he felt insecure about my job.

I'll continue to think about those. That's a harder question

This is really good, keep posting these. I know everyone here is coming from a very compassionate place. But I'm going to view it how I did when sometimes people banged me over the head with 2x4s. Every time we do that a bit too harshly you may be thinking of the times when there were exceptions.

So just keep doing this list. Even if there are positive things write those down too. You're just starting to reflect on the relationship.

I don't care if you list good things just keep posting them up. It's easy for us to say what if this was your client? We can do that because we are not you. So I'm trying to promote you undertaking a more objective standpoint. It's like doing your finances... I think..?


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, October 12th (Saturday)

In the two years you've been with him, how much time have you spent with his family? How is his relationship with them?

I've met his dad maybe three times, and his mom twice. I wanted to spend more time with them, but it just never happened. Not sure why. They live about 30 minutes from me.

I understand rationally what everyone is saying. If it was one of my friends, I'd be saying the exact same things to her. My head knows everything that you're saying, but my heart just loves him.

I went out with some friends today, and just thought of him the whole time. We have fun together. Even with the A stuff, I'm happy when I'm spending time with him. I rationally know that's not enough, and that's why I'm insisting on the NC so that he will have some time to work on himself. But emotionally, I just really want to be with him. I'm forcing my head to control right now. I've asked my IC what it says about me that I want to be with someone who did all this horrible stuff. She of course won't answer the question. I think most of my friends, and probably people on SI, see me as not respecting myself. I'm questioning whether or not I respect myself. I just have this feeling of being "home" when I'm with him, and I don't get that feeling anywhere else. That probably sounds dumb, but it's why I've stayed after everything that happened I guess.

So just keep doing this list. Even if there are positive things write those down too. You're just starting to reflect on the relationship.

Before I knew the qualities that I wanted in a marriage partner. Now I feel confused about what I want.

Before I thought I was a good judge of character and could tell when someone lying. Now I don't trust my judgment.

Before I was never able to walk away from a relationship or initiate NC. Now I'm enforcing NC, and that makes me feel like a stronger person.

Before I was able to move on very quickly after a relationship ended. Now I can't imagine dating anyone else because I still have very strong feelings for him.

Before I was optimistic about love and my friends' new relationships. Now I'm very cynical and tell my friends to be careful.

Before I could honestly say that there wasn't anyone that I hated. Now there are a few people that I have those feelings toward. I really hope that passes with time, because it's not the way I like being.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 11:14 PM, October 12th (Saturday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 12:17 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Have the two of you ever discussed finances? Do you each support the other's career choices?

last December. We were talking about getting engaged, and then he asked for no contact in December out of the blue. He said it was because he was depressed, and he needed to be alone to work through it. It crushed me, but I respected his wishes. I never initiated contact with him. I would respond if he messaged me, but I never initiated it. He would periodically once a week ask to see me, and I would agree. Each time I'd get my hopes up, and then he'd say that he needed more time. During those 3 months, he still had us listed as "in a relationship on facebook."

Were these once a week social visits, or were they booty calls?
I remember when he broke up with me in December, and he said it was because he was depressed. Then he said it was because he wanted to move for school. I offered to move with him, and then he said that he didn't know if he wanted me. That he was 99% sure that he wanted me. And I spent the next few months trying to prove to him that I was good enough. I finally "won" and we got back together. Then two weeks later, Dday happened.

You were trying prove to him that you were good enough? Remember this gem:
He will feel insecure sometimes, and pull back to make the woman try harder so that he'll feel wanted or whatever. He has gotten a lot better after MC with this. It used to be worse before the A.

Kinda pulled that shit again by blocking you on FB and turning off GPS, right? Pull back. And you try harder ... and feel guilty "I'm the one that doesn't care about the relationship. I'm the bad guy. I'm the one giving up on him. I'm the one giving up on us."

He admits that he wasn't fully trying before 3 weeks ago when he confessed the stuff about my phone and the fake account on the other profile.

Damn! Imagine how good your relationship would be if he actually "tried."

And I recently read messages between him and his brother, where he told his brother that he slept with her and cheated on me because "she was hot." I re-read those messages several times a day, and it just hits me right in the center of my heart.

*sigh*
I had so much sex with him before he went out of the country for a trip. I wanted him to be sexually exhausted. But you know what? He still had a ONS during that trip. Nothing I do will control his actions. He either loves and respects me enough to not do it, or he doesn't.

*sigh*

Does he respect you, Lonelygirl10?

Kind of embarrassing. When we first met, we had a conversation about fantasies. I shared the thought of a threesome. In his email today, he said that he had signed up on a site for the both of us then. He said just a login name, and that he didn't do anything further with it. But that the spam emails began then. He said he told me about it back then and I got upset, but I don't remember that part.

Still no recollection of that threesome discussion?! What are the odds he lied?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Ok, 2x4 warning:

I asked about his family because his lying goes deeper than his cheating. He has lied to you about everything, repeatedly. His lying is pathological and reading some of his actions is setting off alarms in me big time. I am seriously worried for your safety.
What he has been doing is stalking and it's abusive.

Did you ever read the police report about his stalking arrest? Or did you get the facts from him. Have you looked into his background?

I know we don't know him and you feel like you've spent two years of your life with him. But in fact, it's a very simple decision you need to make. Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life? Are you ok with your married life being even worse than what your relationship is like now? Because he is not going to change. If he can, it will take *years* of therapy. This is how he treats you *before* you're married. You honestly believe it will get better? If this is your courtship then I'm pretty sure when you're married and the stress of real life sets in you'll be posting on a domestic violence board because he is a controlling, lying, stalking SOB and he can't even handle your career so he's never going to be able to handle a marriage.

Please, please, please try to step back. What if your friend said "I want to marry a man who is a pathological liar, serial cheater, who has been arrested for stalking."? What would you say? We all want to think our lives are so complicated, but actually, it can be pretty simple. Are you prepared to spend the rest of your life like this? Because he is not going to change. It ain't. gonna. happen.

Take care of yourself. Revisit this NC. It shouldn't be for 30 days, it should be for eternity. Every moment you spend on this guy wastes the opportunity for a new, healthy relationship. Focus on you - you deserve better. Hugs to you.

[This message edited by cliffside at 10:01 AM, October 13th (Sunday)]


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

The 2x4s are getting hard to read, even though I know it's out of compassion.

I know he has a ton of work on himself that he needs to do.

I know that I have a ton of work on myself that I need to do.

You have helped me to realize that I do need to do this 30 days of NC, and that I can't give in to him. Thank you for that.

I'm not ready to give up completely though. I still believe that he can change if he wants to.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

I'm not ready to give up completely though. I still believe that he can change if he wants to.

But his actions clearly show that he *doesn't* want to....


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

I still believe that he can change if he wants to

Sure. He could change if he wanted to. The question is....does he want to? And if he does, what is he doing to make that change happen?
Doing, NOT *saying* he'll do, but actually doing.

I don't see where he is actually working to change himself. He's *phoning in* his IC sessions. He is spending his IC time talking about you and getting validation from the IC that what you want/need is *wrong*. That is NOT him *working* on himself.

You say that you have fun with him. Well, my stbx is tons of fun. Tons. But he is also one of the most black-hearted and soul-less individuals that I know. Read about the cycle of abuse. Focus specifically on the "honeymoon" phase. Abusive people can't be abusive ALL the time......being charismatic and fun is one of the *hooks* used to keep you around.

It is really, really difficult (and not fun at all) to take those *rose-colored* glasses off so that you can see reality......I get it.
{{{hugs}}}


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7694 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

I wanted to add one note:

You're a lawyer. That is AWESOME! You made it through law school and passed the bar. That's not an easy feat and many fail in attempting it. You're kick ass! Know that! Take these thirty days to focus on YOU! Do the 180 and do it for you. You're making a lot of progress, keep going.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Ask yourself why you feel at home with someone who is so abusive.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6306 | Registered: Jan 2011
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

Ask yourself why you feel at home with someone who is so abusive.

I guess I don't see it as abuse.

I think he has problems with himself where he's terrified of being alone, and that causes him to sleep with other women. I've been in his shoes in the past. That's the reason why I cheated on my xBF. And then after he does it, he gets caught in a web of lies in order to prevent himself from being caught. I've been there too in the past. I told my own web of lies. The difference between us is that he got caught, and I didn't. But I see myself as being the same as him. Throughout the past two years of all this, I never cheated on him. To me, that means I was able to fix my issues and become a safe partner. So I just have faith that he can fix himself too, if he wants to. And I know that last part of him wanting to is important. I'm giving him that chance now with the 30 days NC. If this doesn't wake him up and make him want to change, then I know I'll have to walk away. But I'm just giving him one last chance to change.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1031 | Registered: Jul 2013
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

I guess I don't see it as abuse.

That's a big problem, and it's yours. He stalks you on web forums. He pretends to be someone he's not to give you advice that serves him. He's got you thinking you can't go on if he leaves you. He stalks you on the street.

How is that not abuse? How is that behavior in any way acceptable?

Did you do that? Assuming the answer is 'no', you're very different from him.

I think he has problems with himself where he's terrified of being alone, and that causes him to sleep with other women.

You're a lawyer, for crying out loud! You should know that's an assumption and, I daresay, a projection of your own thoughts; as such, the statement probably has no purpose other than to mislead - and it's you who's being misled!

You have a lot to offer other people, but you're a really lousy doormat, and that's what you seem to be offering yourself as.

I do not support your victimizing yourself or letting yourself be victimized.

I fully support you in being you and in protecting yourself.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:54 PM, October 13th (Sunday)]


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9755 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

I guess I don't see it as abuse.

Then why do you expect him to change his behavior(s)?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life? Are you ok with your married life being even worse than what your relationship is like now? Because he is not going to change. If he can, it will take *years* of therapy. This is how he treats you *before* you're married. You honestly believe it will get better? If this is your courtship then I'm pretty sure when you're married and the stress of real life sets in you'll be posting on a domestic violence board because he is a controlling, lying, stalking SOB and he can't even handle your career so he's never going to be able to handle a marriage.

The main thing I guess is that before I felt confident that men wanted me. Now I feel like I'm not good enough.

Before I felt confident in my looks. Now I feel unattractive.

Before I felt confident in my career. Now I feel like my career is a liability for dating since he felt insecure about my job.



Before I knew the qualities that I wanted in a marriage partner. Now I feel confused about what I want.

Before I thought I was a good judge of character and could tell when someone lying. Now I don't trust my judgment.

Before I was optimistic about love and my friends' new relationships. Now I'm very cynical and tell my friends to be careful.


Before I could honestly say that there wasn't anyone that I hated. Now there are a few people that I have those feelings toward. I really hope that passes with time, because it's not the way I like being.


Before I was never able to walk away from a relationship or initiate NC. Now I'm enforcing NC, and that makes me feel like a stronger person.


Before I was able to move on very quickly after a relationship ended. Now I can't imagine dating anyone else because I still have very strong feelings for him.

DO you want to marry this guy? re read all of the above. If the answer is still no, read it again and again until it feels real. Also, are you seeing a counselor?


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
Topic Posts: 82