SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
New Beginnings
User Topic: Is this a red flag?
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

My SO has been suffering from depression and the fall, winter, and little bit of spring are hard times for him. I understand this and cut him slack because I have been suffering from depression also so I know what it feels like.

The issue is that he rarely tells me he loves him. I have told him that this is something I need from him. We are in a LDR so I rarely get any physical touch from him. Several times a week I tell him that I miss him, love him, and how he is important to me. Most of the time he might say he loves me or misses me too.....But it's all prompted. Less than once a month he might say he loves me without me saying anything first.

I came from an emotionally vacant marriage, my ex wouldn't share his true feels with me. He would say he loved me only when I said it first. I don't want to settle again.

I know I carry some baggage from my marriage and that I currently need more reassurance than the "average bear". I feel like I get less than average right now.

I just don't know if this is the life I'm going to have with SO. I didn't see the red flags with exwh... I don't want to oblivious this time either just because I love him. I also don't want to have unrealistic expectations. I just feel that since I have brought up my need that something would have changed at least a little bit.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

IMHO not saying ILY (or being verbally expressive) isn't a red flag.

However...

If you have clearly and intentionally expressed an emotional need to your SO, he understands why it is important to you, and he is still unable or unwilling to meet that need, that is a problem. I don't know if "red flag" is the right term here though. It's more of a compatibility issue.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
Random thoughts
Member
Member # 2959
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

I think red flags can be seen in two ways.

For me his actions do not come across as a red flag, he suffers from depression but that shouldn't affect his saying ILY, he might just be an emotionally dry person.

But I do see a red flag in your actions since your marriage was to a man who didn't show you much affection and now here is another man who is doing the same thing yet you are trying to make this relationship work even knowing you are not getting what you need from this relationship.


Those three words are said too much and not enough.
Chasing Cars-Snow Patrol.
FWW

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Some where in New Jersey
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

he is still unable or unwilling to meet that need, that is a problem

I'm pretty sure it's not that he is unwilling. When I brought it to his attention he said that he was sorry and that he hasn't been doing well. When he's not doing well he has a very hard time expressing his feelings. Which make me wonder if this is just something temporary.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

But I do see a red flag in your actions since your marriage was to a man who didn't show you much affection and now here is another man who is doing the same thing yet you are trying to make this relationship work even knowing you are not getting what you need from this relationship.

Well in my marriage my husband raped me, rarely touched me unless he was wanting sex, and routinely mentally and emotionally abused me. He was not like this when we dated but maybe I was just so desperate to get married and have someone that I didn't register it.

With SO we were friends for over a year and were content with that until we discovered feelings for each other. As friends he was a constant cheerleader, getting thru each and every horrible step of my divorce and struggle to survive as a single mom after being a SAHM for the last 5 years. He got me thru 7 courtroom appearances, constant slandering and accusations from my Ex's lawyer, 5 months of job hunting (100 applications) and countless rejections. So he was emotionally there for me. This weekend was my sons's bday party. My help canceled on me at the last minute so I had to host a party at a playground with a 7 and 3 year old while also making sure everything ran smoothly. He offered to fly down and help me

His love language is service. I also show love in acts of service but because of the huge deficiencies in my past marriage I have greater needs in the other love languages. When we are together he touches me a lot (mostly nonsexual). He is afraid of hurting me emotionally because of what my exwh did to me. He lets me be in control.

I don't feel like I have gotten in the same kind of relationship. This relationship is very healthy. My "currency" has been sex appeal, dirty talk, flirting, etc. that's how I have always been treated by guys in my life and that's how I "knew" they loved me. SO respects me which I have never really felt before. So when he shuts down my dirty talk it feels like rejection. To counteract that rejection I need to be reassured that he still loves me but to say "hey SO I need you to say you love me right now" feels forced. I know he would say it and I know he feels it.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
notmeanymore
Member
Member # 9772
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Depending on his level of depression he may just not have the ability to give you what you need right now. He may be too overwhelmed with his own feelings. It may not be a conscious choice on his part if that makes sense?


"Put the cuckoo back in the clock baby" - Four Brothers

Posts: 872 | Registered: Feb 2006
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

My best friend really loved a guy who suffered from serious depression,,,and kindly, someone who is depressed for 3 out of 4 seasons has a serious problem. My friend married this guy, but the continual drag on having to be "up" for 2 people was too much. She had to divorce him which sent him further into depression.

Are you seeing a counselor?

I think this is a major problem --- a person who cannot give you what you need. If your needs aren't being met,,,and wanting to be told I Love You is not an outrageous request.

We date to find a compatable person to love us, cherish us, help us navigate the world. If the person you love is currently unable to be your "partner", sometimes you have to lovingly let them go to find their way, while you find someone who is more of a match for you.....


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2206 | Registered: Jan 2012
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

He may be too overwhelmed with his own feelings. It may not be a conscious choice on his part if that makes sense?

Yes it makes sense because he said something to that effect recently.

Are you seeing a counselor?

Yes and no. During the 6+ month of false R I saw an IC/MC. The IC as the same person as our mc. I was very beaten down when we first started going to her that I didn't fire her. When I explained the evidence I had on his EA she said I needed to concentrate on our marriage and not the OW because she wasn't the issue. Several days later when I discovered the PA I called her and she was shocked because after the 1 hour spent with us she couldn't believe he would be the kind of person to cheat. Then several weeks later when I told her that he would come at me after I took ambien (super strong sleeping pill) and wouldn't take no... That I had built up resentment against him, she told me I needed to get over it..... Instead of telling me that it was rape and telling him what he did was wrong.

She left a bad feeling in me towards counseling. After SI peeps explained to me that he did in fact rape me... I went to a rape crisis IC. I went every week for 2 months. The IC never pushed me on the issue so it wasn't really addressed. We did talk about my depression and SO. He really is very good for me even though it doesn't sound like it. It just hurts me to be in this relationship because when he treats me well he sheds a light on how really horrible I allowed myself to be treated in the past.

Example: during both of my pregnancies (the first one I worked 50-60 hours a week & the second I was a SAHM) exwh told me that if I had any cravings he wouldn't get me anything I had to go to the store to get it myself... He didn't care what time of day it was. When I visited SO at his house I mentioned that I was craving ice cream. He said that I could hang out at his house and he would get me anything I wanted or I could go with him. I was shocked that a guy would actually do that for me. In that moment the words my exwh said played in my head and it hurt so much.

I know I'm fragile and people would say that I shouldn't be in a relationship but I can't get better unless I confront the past. I can't confront the past unless I know what healthy is. I don't know what healthy is until I see it.

I know you didn't ask but SO is in IC also. He is a BH and has a lot of trigger dates in those 3 seasons. His counselor is helping him work thru that. That's why it's hard to tell if he is going to be like this whenever life gets difficult or if this is just part of the healing process for him.

[This message edited by courageous at 5:45 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

((((courageous & SO))))

Honey - you and your SO are both in a rough spot here. You are not getting what you need at the moment, and he is facing his own rough time with depression and trigger dates. This is a time that will stress both of you and can put additional stress on your relationship. The key is in communicating, which you seem to be doing, and in supporting each other the best you can.

Sending both of you strength and comfort.


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25724 | Registered: Aug 2011
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Nothing quiet like discovering I have been lied to

At least I know I wasn't crazy. Things have been off. (Non infidelity lying)


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, October 14th (Monday)

(((courageous & SO)))

It sounds like both of you have been through so much emotionally and still have a ways to go on working past it. One day at a time. Sending you both strength.


Posts: 35849 | Registered: Mar 2011
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Nothing quiet like discovering I have been lied to
Are you okay?


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, October 14th (Monday)

No I'm not okay. It's like a dday all over again. I'm relieved to know that I wasn't imagining the insensitive way he was talking to me and his refusal to not skype with me... To the point of him getting defensive with me. To realize that he, just like my exwh, is good at deceiving me.

I'm very intuned to feelings and moods due to FOO issues and abuse. I picked up on things not being right and I couldn't figure out why. And now I know he was hiding because he didn't want me to know that he was not handling things as well as he led me to believe.

We plan on talking to night. I'm concerned on the direction of the conversation.

This is why I don't trust anyone... People are always letting me down, leaving me, and making promise they don't intend to keep.

[This message edited by courageous at 8:20 PM, October 14th (Monday)]


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Have you two read Codependent No More? Might be a good one to read together and discuss, with the combo of past experiences you're both combating.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Have you two read Codependent No More?


my boss.. You know that one in the very toxic work environment gave me that book and workbook last month. I guess I really should read it... No excuses


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Nope conversation went horribly bad. I was accused of being deceitful and untrustworthy.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, October 14th (Monday)


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, October 14th (Monday)

I think this is goodbye


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
persevere
Member
Member # 31468
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, October 14th (Monday)

((Hugs)) Sometimes that is the best thing, even when it hurts.

And, as difficult as it sounds, being alone is not a bad thing - just uncomfortable at times, but generally beneficial. Thinking of you courageous.


Me: BW-44
Him: XWH-44
Together 9 yrs
DDays: 1/10/2011
Status: Divorced 4/27/11

Above all, be the heroine, not the victim. - Nora Ephron

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
- J. K. Rowling


Posts: 4607 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 5:15 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)

(((C)))


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)

LDRs can be very hard. Small problems become big. Small slights get magnified. Partners can seem unsupportive because they are never there. It sounds like your SO has been fighting with himself but making you the target. Just know his ugliness to you is his depression talking and that old defense mechanism of being mean to you so that you hurt like he does, not because he believes what he said.

I'm sorry because you've also got the family issues to deal with.

((((courageous)))


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3120 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)

(((courageous)))
I'm so sorry. Depression can affect males/females differently. Men are more prone to anger when depressed. I'm sure some of what you are seeing from him is symptoms of his illness. However, that does not mean you have to live with it. If he isn't doing what needs to be done to heal and work with his illness, then there is no hope of him getting better. I couldn't live with someone with a major depressive disorder if they weren't actively getting help. Mental illness is no different than physical illness. It involves a change in brain chemistry that needs to be treated. And just like a wounded animal, many people when hurt or in pain will strike out at others and that may be what your SO is doing.

Again, though, that does not mean that you have to stick around to deal with it. I wouldn't on any kind of long term basis. This just may help explain what you are dealing with.

Again, I'm so sorry.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)

We are still dating. I discovered he was withholding something completely by accident. I wasn't paying attention and read something I wasn't suppose to. I fessed up to within hours and apologized. He doesn't believe it was an accident and he now wonders what else I have not been truthful about. I'm really upset that he is calling me a liar and questioning my honesty. I'm getting in trouble for being honest... It doesn't make sense.

He didn't tell me because he was concerned that what he had to say was going to overwhelm me and put me in a tailspin and he didn't want to worry me. This made me feel like I'm repeating history. It's a partial trigger for me and it's also a concern.

I told him he has been insensitive and acting like a jerk to me....the response I got was he is hurting and is struggling with being affectionate and sharing his feelings. I guess I need to stay in this relationship, with my needs not getting met, and hope for a brighter future. He was never like this when we were just friends. I don't understand. Even then when he was super depressed he wouldn't talk to me as much but he wasn't rude.

But I guess he could isolate from me back then and now he can't. It's like he desperately wants to retreat and not talk for a long time but he doesn't for me.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)

I guess I need to stay in this relationship, with my needs not getting met, and hope for a brighter future.
Or you can wish him well and find someone who WILL meet your needs (and vice versa) in a healthy relationship.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6525 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

I guess I need to stay in this relationship, with my needs not getting met

Good grief - why?

- He doesn't believe it was an accident and he now wonders what else I have not been truthful about.

- I'm really upset that he is calling me a liar

You deserve better.

He didn't tell me because he was concerned that what he had to say was going to overwhelm me and put me in a tailspin and he didn't want to worry me.

Not cool. You are a big girl and can decide for yourself what you can and can't deal with. Not his call.

the response I got was he is hurting and is struggling with being affectionate and sharing his feelings.

So he is justifying being a jerk?


Even then when he was super depressed he wouldn't talk to me as much but he wasn't rude.

I have dated someone who was depressed. They would totally isolate and detach. It was hard as heck for me because they wouldn't even tell me...just disappear.

My concern is you are dealing with someone who is depressed for a large portion of the year so THIS will be the norm.

I am sorry - it just doesn't seem like the right relationship at the right time for either of you.

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 12:06 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2177 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

I just realized that I left out a crucially detail. In the 8 month relationship it has only been the last month that he hasn't been meeting my needs.

I don't know what happened but today he is acting like the old SO I know and love.

[This message edited by courageous at 11:31 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 651 | Registered: Jan 2012
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:47 AM, October 16th (Wednesday)

I wasn't paying attention and read something I wasn't suppose to.
Excuse me. You guys have been together for over 8 months, are in a serious committed relationship, and he got angry because you read something you weren't supposed to? SECRETS ARE BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Anyway, what he is really angry about is that he carelessly left something around that he didn't want you to see. It's on him, not you. If he doesn't want you to see something, he shouldn't say it, write it, or text it. Period. And I am concerned about a relationship where you can't talk about anything and everything together.

I don't care that it was something he was trying to "protect you from" (as if you are a six year old that can't handle the truth or reality?)

courageous...it is clear you aren't ready to give this one up and that is okay. It took me over a YEAR to end it with my XSO even when I knew I should. I still loved him and didn't want to deal with the end of something that I valued.

Maybe he will get some help for his depression and make changes. Nothing is impossible (maybe unlikely but not impossible.) Try to have a deep talk with him, let him know your needs, and see how he responds. If you still feel SOME hope that he will be able to meet your needs in the future and he is willing to work on things...there isn't anything wrong with giving this a little more time....


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Mousse242
Member
Member # 6330
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Your needs are not being met for over half the year - all of fall and winter and for part of spring - when he is depressed. What is he doing about his depression issues? What is he doing to correct the imbalance? It sounds like it is a seasonal depression - quite common. BUT does he use a tanning bed, adjust his time so he spends more time outside, especially when it's sunny, medication, etc. to remedy the situation?

Posts: 5473 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Chicago
Topic Posts: 28