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User Topic: Dr. Laura fans ??
ionlytalkedtoher
Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, October 17th (Thursday)

Does anyone on here watch/read/listen to dr. Laura ??

In my early marriage life I read her books about being a good wife etc...I think there is something to it...but since my H's affairs etc almost everything she writes or has on her website upsets me anymore. Today in my inbox I got this article and I am like WTC??? The article is about a woman who lets her husband watch porn and how its good for their marriage--ok fine if that's what you want...but the part that just irks me is that she says that the women who don't like their husbands watching porn are just jealous and they actually create the problems in the marriage if they complain about their husbands needs. Ok ummmm I disagree.

care to discuss this??

last week her article also upset me when it was about the topic of "being proud of your husbands". I used to be proud...but sometimes his actions do actually embarrass me when it concerns the pursuit of OW. So i was down for several days about this. I want to be proud of him but how can you be when he has lied and betrayed me so many times. I forgive him and accept him but you know, things are just different now...until he earns back that respect and trust.

there have other articles too that upset me... I just try to not read her anymore.


http://www.drlaura.com/b/Do-Some-Research-With-Your-Husband/-980058142108963907.html?utm_campaign=1011do-research-with-husband&utm_medium=letter&utm_source=email&utm_content=10.14.13&utm_term=link


Posts: 264 | Registered: Jul 2013
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, October 17th (Thursday)

I have never liked her. Ever. I think she is a horrible, awful person.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6497 | Registered: Jan 2011
ionlytalkedtoher
Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, October 17th (Thursday)

where is the laughing hyserical smiley--too funny.

yeah sometimes \i think she is bit out there


Posts: 264 | Registered: Jul 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, October 17th (Thursday)

Unsubscribe from the emails.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, October 17th (Thursday)

The world is full of different beliefs they are like assholes we all have one
I believe in some marriages were infidelity hasnt been an issue porn might work but when infidelity touches the marriage the whole dynamics of that marriage changes.
We could use more church and religious beliefs and less sex and porn in this world. JMO!
I never cared for Ms. Lauras opinions!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
ionlytalkedtoher
Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, October 17th (Thursday)

well she presents herself as a very religious person...I think she is jewish. Which is why \i am so upset. I don't see how anyone can present themselves in a religious light and say that porn is OK.

But it wasn't that she said porn was ok--it was that those who DON'T like their H's viewing it are actually CAUSING all the problems in the marriage since the man has ego needs. "Those who won't let their H's view porn are taking a baseball bat to their H's ego's...." ummm what about the woman's ego's???

you are right I NEED to unsubscribe to her like yesterday.

[This message edited by ionlytalkedtoher at 11:22 AM, October 17th (Thursday)]


Posts: 264 | Registered: Jul 2013
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, October 17th (Thursday)

I have never liked her. Ever. I think she is a horrible, awful person.

You consistently make me laugh rebreather.

ionlytalkedtoher -

Dr laura is harmful to a persons soul. IMO she teaches manipulation and 'techniques' not honest communication and truth through actions. In short, she is a quack and full of shit.

Do yourself a favor and stop listening to her...

Alternatives?

Gottman- anything he has written

Not Just Friends - for the A stuff

Self improvement - Act with Love and anything by Brene Brown - if you are a video watcher...try her Ted Talk on vulnerability.

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
roses303
Member
Member # 40161
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

Want a good laugh. OW sent me a copy of Dr. Laura's The Care and Keeping of Husbands right before or it may have been during the first affair with WH. She insisted it was the best thing that ever happened to her marriage and wanted me to read it so I could have the same loving marraige she and her husband have.

I had to give it away after the chapter where she blamed the wife for her husband's leaving her because she selfishly went away to take care of her dying mother and neglected her husband.


Me: BW - 46
Him: WH - 49
MOW: my BFF from college and good friend for 25 yrs
Married 14 years, 2 Tweens
DD: 5/20/13 2 year long EA/PAs (one 7 yrs ago and one this past year)
Status: day by day, in MC, working on R

Posts: 141 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: roses303
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

Oh boy...A Dr. Laura thread:


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5668 | Registered: Aug 2007
ajsmom
Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

@ Harden.

I read somewhere where she put shrimp shells and dead fish in a curtain rod once.

Leaving...yes, I'm leaving.

AJ's MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21057 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
ionlytalkedtoher
Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

oh my gosh--never heard that about the dying mom? and oh my I am lauging now. Gonna go get some popcorn. Ok I guess I am the only dumb one that used to like her...lol.

what the heck is the story about a curtain rod and shells?? why would she do that?? oh my!


Posts: 264 | Registered: Jul 2013
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I have never liked her. Ever. I think she is a horrible, awful person.

I agree.

Dan Savage probably will provde you better marriage advice compared to Dr. Laura.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 485 | Registered: Nov 2012
1ost0ne
Member
Member # 40202
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

Harden that is hilarious.

If you want 2 minutes of advice, I guess she's fine. I wonder what most MC and ICs would say if 120 seconds.

I listened to one of her calls with a BS that found out about an affair 10 years later. It was over and the WW was an otherwise loyal wife. She told the BS to "man up and get over it." She came back and he did not noticed when the affair was going on.


“The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
― Maya Angelou

Posts: 84 | Registered: Aug 2013
BeyondBreaking
Member
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

You know, my first thought when reading that article was anger and annoyance. Porn has been ABSOLUTELY nothing but disruptive and destructive to my marriage and to hear light hearted advice about "it's just research" makes me want to punch that woman in the throat.

But then, I thought about it some more. I have NEVER had a serious problem with porn in a relationship. Because...it hasn't been a problem in a relationship. If I am getting laid 6 times per week and H watches some porn because I'm not home every second of the day, or because waking me up in the middle of the night three times when I have to work early is freaking rude- fine. Porn became a problem when H- all on his own- decided to go a step further and actually converse with other women and sext with them. When you are participating and sending pictures of yourself and talking to people- real people from the internet who live in the area- that is no longer "just" porn. He decided to watch porn instead of having sex with me- he watched porn and then would be too tired or out of energy for sex later. THAT was when porn became a problem.

It is hard to tailor advice to fit for everyone. In normal, healthy marriages in which the couple is having sex, infidelity has NOT been a previous issue, and porn isn't something that either of the partners have a huge adversion to- this advice might work out well. In my marriage, there are different circumstances, so this advice doesn't fit.

Unsuscribe to the e-mails since her advice doesn't fit with your values and your marriage.


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

Dr. Laura... Isn't that the lady who helped break up her current husband's first marriage? According to wikipedia (who uses the words "affair" and "infidelity" far less than I would wish when calling people out), he was a married father of three children, and he left his family to begin living with her.

Had she been remorseful, I might ponder her advice. But she hasn't been even remotely, and her poor advice reflects that.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

Yes, she is a cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6497 | Registered: Jan 2011
TrulySad
Member
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

To be a fan of Dr. Laura is equivalent to being a fan of ignorance.

IMHO...


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 452 | Registered: Jun 2013
unfound
Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, October 17th (Thursday)


I'll take "Who's more qualified to give infidelity advice than Dr Laura" for $1000 Alex.


Who is Dr Scholl, Dr Dre and Dr Pepper.


Not a fan.


[This message edited by unfound at 2:41 PM, October 17th (Thursday)]


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14852 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

She's not Jewish. Her father was Jewish, but her mother was Catholic. She does not seem to have been brought up practicing Judaism, either. So, not Jewish.

Just wanted to be sure that no one connected her viewpoint (I'm trying to be nice!) with Judaism in any way!


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 866 | Registered: Sep 2012
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I'll take "Who's more qualified to give infidelity advice than Dr Laura" for $1000 Alex.


......Doctor Suess, Dr Watson, and the guy who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 485 | Registered: Nov 2012
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

She converted to an orthodox version of Judaism. In 2003, she announced she still considers herself Jewish but she would no longer practice it. I don't know where that leaves her.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10167 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
TheAmazingWondertwin
Member
Member # 40769
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I fell for her crap in the beginning - trying to be the perfect wife and mother, blah blah blah- look we're that got me, right?
Years ago, I slowly realized that she is pompous, judgmental and self righteous.
She makes blanket statements that do not empower, but belittle and make the listener/reader feel stupid for not figuring it out on their own.

I hate that people can make money spewing crap- and people fall for it.



Everyday is a new day, some good, some bad.
Me- BS 39
Him- FWS
14 years- 2 middle school children
DDay- 07-24-2013
NC broken from August 6- 24, 2013
Avalanche of Truth on November 14, 2013
Length of A: June 10th to Dday- with broken NC

Posts: 474 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: East Coast
Clarrissa
Member
Member # 21886
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

From what I've heard about "Dr." Laura is she calls WWs sluts and blames BWs for their WHs A. So basically the man is NEVER at fault. She's a WW herself but of course *she's* not a slut.


BH Cee64D - 48
WW (me) - 49


All affairs are variations on a theme. No one has 'Beethoven's 5th' to everyone else's 'Chopsticks'.


Posts: 5890 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: A better place
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I never understand why obnoxious idiots gain such loyal followings... I could list a bunch of 'em, but I'd probably offend people... She's a moron.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2012
ionlytalkedtoher
Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

oh my gosh add this to the stuff I never knew...I really had no idea. Now I feel this proves that I am a gullible person that believes crap ppl tell me. I am sorry for the drama...

but this is funny. You guys made me laugh.


Posts: 264 | Registered: Jul 2013
scared&stronger
Member
Member # 15942
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

Who is Dr. Whora....Alex?


WS 45
BS 43

Met when we were 17 and 15. Together since 1983, married since 1985. Two kids, B21, G15.

d-day 4-3-07

Life has a way of making us get our panties in a wad.....I refuse to wear panties ever again.


Posts: 3972 | Registered: Aug 2007
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I think she hasn't a clue about infidelity. She has outdated ideas concerning the roles for wives and husbands. Her ideas about the wife screams doing everything for your man. However i don't see her telling husbands to dance on their heads for the wife. She advocates "nicing" them back to decent good behavior, we here on SI know how well that works.

This woman just can't be taken seriously IMHO.


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2985 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

Dr. Whora

Listened to her a few times when I was a new bride. When I found out she was D, I realized she was the blind leading the blind and turned off the radio when she came on.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I'll take "Who's more qualified to give infidelity advice than Dr Laura" for $1000 Alex.

Who is Dr Scholl, Dr Dre and Dr Pepper.


I have to admit, no matter what the problem, Dr. Pepper has always made me feel better.

As for "Dr." Laura (her doctorate is in Physiology- not psychology), if Wikipedia is to be believed, she's a serial OW having had known affairs with two married men. And who knows what she's done that didn't make the news.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 6:59 PM, October 17th (Thursday)]


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4102 | Registered: Sep 2005
breakingpoint
Member
Member # 40963
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I find her to be extremely naive about porn. For some couples, that works. But not all men look at porn as a fun addition to the marriage. They are sex addicts. It takes from their ability to emotionally and sexually connect with real humans. She is an idiot.

Posts: 115 | Registered: Oct 2013
surviving1963
Member
Member # 40393
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

I tried to listen to her radio show years ago. I've never heard someone be so condescending, rude, belittling in giving "advice".

Her book "The Proper Care and Feeding of a Husband" was given to me. It ended up in the garbage with my marriage. One spouse does not SERVE another.


Me: 50
WH: 50 pro cake-eater, NPD, SA
Married 33 years
D-Days 3-4-12, 8-19-12 (EA, probably PA)porn,ashleymadison, etc, etc
4 sons, 3 daughters
8 grandkids
Divorcing - finally

Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Utah
gma56
Member
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, October 17th (Thursday)

T/J
AJsMom I caught that ! You're SO BAD !!!!!
End of T/J.

I'm not a fan and her advice is strictly her opinion and doesn't fit in my real world.


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. That is priceless.

Posts: 20377 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
loveisareddress
Member
Member # 36474
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, October 18th (Friday)

Dr Laura is full of shit!


Scorched earth-Like Peter the Great, he burns up his own territory in order to gain the upper hand while his own people suffer.

I don't need you to be happy. I just need you to leave me alone when I am.


Posts: 442 | Registered: Aug 2012
Spelljean
Member
Member # 35624
Default  Posted: 2:39 AM, October 18th (Friday)

I gave up listening to her when she tried to lay a guilt trip on me for having a child and working.

I live in California. The two income state.


WH: 41
me: BS, 45
Together 18 1/2 years, married 17
DDAY 8/2/12
OW: EA- friend of 4 months
Status: separated

Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2012 | From: California
jjsr
Member
Member # 34353
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, October 18th (Friday)

No Politics

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:00 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]


Me: BS
Him: WS
Married since 1985
Parents to 2 adult sons and 3 of the cutest cats you have ever seen
D-day 8/6/11 Truth about ONS and 9/21/11 Truth about EA
Trying to reconcile

Posts: 1632 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: midwest now.
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, October 18th (Friday)

I like many of Dr. Laura’s values. As to this article… I see nothing wrong with the message she is sending.
Porn and men..
As women, we want to believe that we are the only vision our husband sees when he thinks about sex or masturbates.

Is this true for you ladies?
I know this.. And I have been in a sex therapist men’s group for over a year now. These men opened up on this “closed” subject. Most men won’t talk about it for fears of it.. it destroys egos… hurts you because yes you do get offended.

Men who masturbate are not thinking about their spouse. They are thinking about past girlfriends, they are fantasying about people you know, perhaps even your best friend. Porn they are looking at that “strange” and getting off on it.
My sex therapist will say most all men do not have the ability to open their women up to meet his own sexuality. Humans tend to hide. The good behavior we men must have is rarely taught to us by our parents or society. The behavior I must have falls on me.


Having listened to Dr. Laura’s show.. I don’t necessary think her message is.. Yes, go visit porn with your H.. It is more a message about being “that” open with your H and his sexuality… and giving it to him for the best possible happiness. Heck, it is fun too. Her message is to women. You can join your man in his journey on his sexuality terms and hey, accept what a is very natural in a man. Most men cannot be that open. You as a woman, can behave in ways to open your man by.. playing along. That is her message to a woman.

A good book for all men is “Every Man's Battle.” A woman can give this book to her man but unless he really “wants” to change, it will do NO good. People must want to change and learn. I recently was in a presentation where a psychologist says 20% of people are those who always want to change; 60% are slow changers, and 20% resist. I think Dr. Laura knows this fact. She is trying to say you open up to your man and you might find he will open up to you verses getting your feathers all ruffled. The psychologist said that those 20% will influence the 60% to change too. So I see this message as.. Take personal responsibility in your M and be that influencer.


My therapist says to masturbate to another woman is not really a good thing. He says we as men can behave in ways that will draw your woman out to the point she will want to have sex with you so often she will satisfy all your needs. You therefore will not have a need to masturbate in fantasy to other women meeting that basic human need to spread your seed. Honestly.. he has been right.

BTW Dr Laura’s books have these values…
End your M if…
- Your spouse is in an affair
- Your spouse is addicted to drugs
- You spouse is abusive
All we agree with right?

Yes, she manipulates. A person like her believes that it is OK to manipulate when it is for good values. Her tone of voice gets to a point where it appears angry. Anger is a way to manipulate. She is trying to manipulate those callers into believing her values. I laugh when someone does not submit to her.. she just says.. OK, go do what you want.

And also a person like her also knows... It goes back to that change I mentioned above. Some people just won’t change… and the consequences will be what they will be. Nothing she can do about it.

More on her values…
- Look at yourself first… A value of taking personal responsibility for all that happens to you in life.
I am pretty sure our values today taught to us by so many groups, political parties.. etc.. is not that value of trend.. Let others be responsible for my living, controlling me.. seems to be the trend. If you don’t have this value, you won’t agree with her and perhaps argue against her. I am ok with your value, are you ok with mine? Or do you get upset and angry at me because I have that value. When we force our values on each other is when you truly must fight. I think most all her values will protect yourself in most situations.

Another value I know many women hate
- The value in being a stay at home mom.

In an ideal situation, yes that would be great. To quote her.. If anybody would rather of had a nanny, a daycare work, take care of you over your mom, please stand up. I know this bring guilt on working women because I cannot think of an argument against that says otherwise when you really think about having others take care of your child. We seem to choose cell phone, cable tv, nice cars, nicer homes.. Material things over being stay at home moms.

Dr laura does not believe in sex addiction. She says it is made up by those wanting our money. Each person’s sexuality is their own sexuality. My sex therapist says the same but what we do to our bodies do generate brain chemicals. These chemicals are addictive. Human use these chemical for a burst of comfort.. a refuge. But as adults, we mature. A mature person has the ability to control him or herself. Those that don’t , have failed to mature as he says it. It is the same for her value on drug addiction.

I like her shows and have posted about her before. The attacks on my liking her are viscous, made fun of.. manipulation technics to get me to submit. The reality is I am open to anyone’s opinion and I just want to learn how to be the best possible man. And when I look at most all her values.. They are good ones. Choose your partner carefully and be nice.

Personally I think Dr. Laura Berman is the best. Dr. Laura does judge people way too fast without all the facts.


Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
losingmyground
Member
Member # 36070
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, October 18th (Friday)

I was a huge fan for a long time. Just because people do not agree with the principles she spouts does not make them wrong. Just different from theirs.

Her advice to women is to empower them within the marriage. Not to make them a slave to a dysfunctional one. I always thought of the old saying "If mommas not happy then neither is the house".

She does not stand behind keeping a marriage if there is abuse, adultery or addiction. She has the same expectations of the men callers as she does the women. And please remember that she does not have ongoing sessions with these people. It is a 5 to 10 min call and she is taking there questions and information at face value.

As far as women staying home. I believe that if it is possible monetarily one parent should stay home. It is better for the child as NO ONE loves or takes care of your child like you will. She also says that family is a better choice than daycare. This is coming from a mom that had her oldest two in daycare. I am now home with my youngest and think back to the teacher ratio at such a young age. How can 1 adult take care of 4-5 infants at one time? How do they decide which crying child gets comfort before the other? How do you discipline a child while not in the moment it happens, but after their little minds have disregarded their actions?

I have the book 10 stupid things women do to mess up their life for my daughter. Most of it is good common sense.


Married 13 yrs
3 kids 13, 10 & 1
I'm 34
FWH 37
Affair lasted 6 months
Ended 09/2011
Found out 06/2012
My father died during the affair
In the middle of Reconcilliation

Posts: 291 | Registered: Jul 2012
losingmyground
Member
Member # 36070
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, October 18th (Friday)

As for the porn issue. I have never had an issue with it and still do not even after my husbands affair.

They are pics or movies that do NOT interact. What I take issue with are sex chat rooms, websites that allow messaging and face to face interaction.

I DO NOT find the need to compare myself to these women and can realize that they are fake. As long as it does not keep me from getting my needs met sexually there is no issue from me.

I also like to compare it to romance novels for women. You all know what I am talking about. That good old knight in shining armour that can be more illicit than Hustler mags. They are fake too, yet you don't hear men complaining about them. These books are guilty pleasures based on fantasy just like porn.


Married 13 yrs
3 kids 13, 10 & 1
I'm 34
FWH 37
Affair lasted 6 months
Ended 09/2011
Found out 06/2012
My father died during the affair
In the middle of Reconcilliation

Posts: 291 | Registered: Jul 2012
ionlytalkedtoher
Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, October 18th (Friday)

I think we should stick to the topic of infidelity/sex/marriage etc or this post will never end with discussions of sahm vs wham ughhh those arguments never end and everyon e ends up feeling upset. |I guess I didn't think through all the possibilities of dr. laura arguments before I posted this.

but back to the topic--

umm YES! I would be upset to think my H was thinking of other women while he was having sex with me. I don't and never have ever thought of anyone else while having sex with him. I just don't see how that can be construed to be OK in anyone's world. I married and am with my H for a reason. Not to think of other men while I am with him. That is so sick I want to vomit. If this is "normal" for men then I think they should try to not think this way. For a man--can you honestly say that you are fine and dandy with your wife of say 15 years fantasizing about other men when they have sex with you ?? You don't find that demeaning or degrading in anyway? Everyone wants to be the one that is desired otherwise its just using someone's body for the physical enjoyment of yourself.

If it is true that all men think like this I would rather not know the truth..it would be too upsetting.

masturbating for a man I would see differently anyway though since it is for yourself and not with your wife anyway--but if you are actually having sex with your wife what is the point if you are not having sex with your wife?


Posts: 264 | Registered: Jul 2013
Gemini71
Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, October 18th (Friday)

My situation is the same as BeyondBreaking's. Porn was the gateway to cheating for my husband. What started out as a tool for our marital sex life, became a stepping stone to sexual addiction (or serial cheating if you prefer).

Think of the old True/False tests from school. Any sweeping statements saying that its always good to do such and such, or its never okay to do whatever, are almost always wrong.

As for being a fan of Dr. Laura, Dr. Phil, or Dr. Whomever (not to be confused with Dr. Who), I never trust anyone who says they have all the answers.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1803 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
Newlease
Member
Member # 7767
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Ok - what would she say about women masturbating while watching porn and thinking about men other than their husband? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?

Not every woman/wife is sexually passive.

NL

P.S. There are many SAHM on this site who got divorced (not by choice) that are now supposed to jump into the job market after many years without working. That hasn't worked out so well for them. In a perfect world where everyone behaved as they should it would be safe for someone to give up their career to take care of the children, but the cold truth is that can come back to haunt you.

[This message edited by Newlease at 1:43 PM, October 18th (Friday)]


Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

Posts: 7702 | Registered: Aug 2005
DefeatedDad
Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Dr. Laura... Isn't that the lady who helped break up her current husband's first marriage? According to wikipedia (who uses the words "affair" and "infidelity" far less than I would wish when calling people out), he was a married father of three children, and he left his family to begin living with her.

Had she been remorseful, I might ponder her advice. But she hasn't been even remotely, and her poor advice reflects that.

True. All true.

I believe she was also married to her first husband at the time.

Her present husband (then AP) took nude pics of her and they are now on the internet. You can Google them and see them.

She is a phony shock jock, nothing more.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

True. All true.

I believe she was also married to her first husband at the time.

Her present husband (then AP) took nude pics of her and they are now on the internet. You can Google them and see them.

She is a phony shock jock, nothing more.


I find this comment surprising.

I have listen to this show enough to know I think she is somewhat rude.. no patience with people.. judges way to quick.. interrupts people.. not so tactful her own behaviors piss people off.

Some pretty dumb people call in that show and it is very entertaining.. I suppose the "shock" part that is so entertaining.

But to then take that as.. She has poor or no values.. A hypocrite because of her past. But she does not promote or practice poor values today... by her words.

I would like to believe most people learn from mistakes and I think she did. People change.


what would she say about women masturbating while watching porn and thinking about men other than their husband?

That would be a very interesting question.

It would be an interesting question for women here too. Anyone?

I know this.. Men do. But in the men's group I was in where they opened up.. MOST ALL during watching porn together these men focused ONLY on their wives.. not the video. There is something visual about a genital to men. I have read men generally are visual and women mostly not. However, in self-sex, these same men focused on that woman in the porn or in fantasy, the woman they had it about. Some even fantasized about sex the had with their own wives including situation from a past experience or made up one.

One man I know talked about him walking in on his wife masturbating. Rather than getting all bent out of shape, he asked if he could join in.. I suppose this article could be about that kind of openness.

Imagine this? If you would tell your spouse.. Please come to me when you feel the need to masturbate. The real thing will be far better. Will that work? Not if one person has his sexuality and she has a different sexuality. Oh now the compromise..

A point about pre marital sex.. is it damaging or not? Men self-sex to earlier premarital sex with former GF or casual sex. How healthy is that? Does man then have enough self control when the Facebook pops up with that old GF flirting again? He cheats and he is broken.. right? No self control.. A Dr. Laura value is to have self control... be mature.

Dr. Laura is not perfect in my eye yet the most of the advice she gives is very valuable. Of course, I am not so perfect myself.

Her value is not to "shack up" before marriage. It will delay a commitment... it is commitment avoidance.. no vow means cheating is ok. I suppose you can commit without a vow. Why the heck then do we even get married? Oh the comfort of those famous words.. "I DO".

I have a value that a Marriage does mean something. Commitment. If you don't that is your choice. I am not angry at your choice. What is right for you is not right for me.

I could list all her values.. My bet is most everyone here would then agree with them.


A given in life.. things change and people change.



Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

Just Googled Dr. Laura and got a website that listed what Dr. Laura says v.s. what Mrs. Slessinger does. If she really believes the advice she gives on the radio and in books, she is schizophrenic, because she doesn't follow her own advice.

She is an entertainer, making money. Some people believe her magic tricks, while others know they are fake and just enjoy the show. I am neither of those people, I just walk on by and ignore her.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

She is an entertainer, making money. Some people believe her magic tricks, while others know they are fake and just enjoy the show. I am neither of those people, I just walk on by and ignore her.

Times two. Even though sometimes it is quite hard to just ignore it when I hear her opinions - if I want my blood pressure to remain stable - it's probably best I do.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
LAFA
Member
Member # 31868
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

My opinion of her has always been she's a kook from pillar to post.


When you put someone on a pedestal, they quickly learn two things. The view is mighty good from up there, and it is a fine vantage from which to kick.

Posts: 183 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Hawaii
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

But to then take that as.. She has poor or no values.. A hypocrite because of her past. But she does not promote or practice poor values today... by her words.

I would like to believe most people learn from mistakes and I think she did. People change.


Most people that learn from their mistakes are a bit more compassionate when speaking with someone making the same mistake. Dr. Laura refuses to even acknowledge that she once did these things, let alone not condemn those currently engaged in such behavior. That is why she is so hatable.

Regarding porn - it can very much be an issue. To claim it is 'fantasy' in all cases is simply wrong. It can and often does escalate. It is voyeurism, and it most definitely objectifies women. If the man has the mental capacity to handle this and not take it any farther, then no harm no foul. But, when he starts taking pictures of women on the street, or collecting pictures of women of all sorts in pictures that they did not know were being taken, it has escalated. The man no longer views women in the real world as people - the objectification has moved beyond porn. Or, for the sex addict, it moves from visual to chat rooms to live women.

Porn can be just a quick escape, or it can be a dangerous gateway. All possible outcomes should be considered.

And Dr. Laura is as judgmental and hypocritical as they come. She was a WW, so no wonder she tells women if their husbands cheat it's their fault - it justifies her own behavior. Blame the victim. How lovely. Anything she says is out the window as soon as she says things like that imo.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

That woman is a living testament to the powers of good marketing. She could probably insist that she's vegetarian while eating a double cheeseburger and people would buy into it.

She's a remorseless cheater who shacked up with a married man for almost a decade. I'd say screw her but apparently she has that covered already.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7456 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

As women, we want to believe that we are the only vision our husband sees when he thinks about sex or masturbates.
With all due respect, trynhard, Dr. Laura really doesn't speak for me. She doesn't speak for any woman I know.

I never harbored illusions that my husband thought only of me. I didn't resent that he didn't.

I entered our relationship and marriage adventurous and open-minded and free-spirited.

I had NO problem with porn. I enjoyed it with him sometimes.

And frankly, when I masturbated (gasp! women masturbate!), no--I wasn't only thinking of my husband. Why would I expect him to only think of me?

(I REALLY hate generalizations made about women by women who hate other women or men who...well, may ADORE women,but simply have no concept of how women think because, well--they're not women!)

The thing is, Dr. Laura's off-base. For some people, porn is fine. The extent of the "trouble" it causes may be SO's insecurity. (I might argue that, if one partner has an issue with it, its use should be limited ---perhaps not SECRETIVELY, because I'm not keen on secrets--but done discreetly. Or that if a GF or wife has a REAL problem with it, that its use be halted because, really--what man wants to cause his partner pain for the momentary pleasure afforded by images of another woman (I mean,imagination is pretty good, right?) Note that that question presupposes that a man views his wife or SO as a partner, and therefore the relationship a collaboration rather than a parent-child, or you-can't-make-me sort of thing in which, unfortunately, unwittingly and unwillingly many of us find ourselves embroiled with man-children who seem to prefer adolescent rebellion to a mutually rewarding relationship. But I digress...)

My point is this: There are scads of women who are NOT threatened by porn.

A subset of us gets bitten ROYALLY in the ass for this. How? Because our SOs, our husbands, our BFs, the men purporting to be our partners are anything BUT what they promised to be. They get sucked into a morass that creates genuine relationship problems. They come to prefer the easy-rocks-off, impersonal, no-need-to-perform-or-meet-anyone-else's-needs of masturbation to porn to a real sexual relationship.

It happens a lot more than you think.

It is DEVASTATING.

I can tell you now, in hindsight, that I was sexually abandoned when my now 25-year-old was 3. There were brief spates of sexual activity. After our youngest was about 3 (sensing a pattern here?), I was led to believe my husband was "too sick" for sex. (He has serious heart disease and meds that also affect performance. Unless he's alone or with another woman, which is far more thrilling, that stranger-sex or near-anonymous sex with someone who only knows about you what you wish to share).

Ever laid in bed wondering whether your partner would join you? When---or if--you'd have sex again, ever?

Ever laid in bed knowing your partner preferred masturbation to sex with a real, willing, adventurous partner?

Ever watched that "partner" (who by then really was anything but a partner) escalate---so that intimacy with REAL people became too threatening--until the "sure thing" of masturbation (or its various forms---such as strip clubs, lap dances, even stranger sex, which is near-anonymous, exciting, and poses no threat --well, except to the health and welfare of the spouse/GF to whom diseases are delivered)--because there is NO expectation of emotional intimacy, something which he has become afraid of (if in fact he was ever able to experience it in the first place--my husband was not, but I did not realize this for many, many years)?

I didn't think so.

And I don't think the adulterous Dr. Laura has been in those shoes either--she has tended to be on the Other Woman side of the coin. She's been the strange married men get off with while their wives (who she blames, incidentally) waited at home for the husbands who had sexually abandoned them.

I have no problem with porn.

I have a problem with adulterous "doctors" (whose doctorates are NOT in anything related to human behavior or psychology) blaming women for their prudishness when, in fact, she has absolutely no foundation for this claim, and no insight WHATSOEVER (as an unrepentant OW) to the damage done by men to the women they purport to love.

My husband may have once loved me--at least as much as he was capable.

I never curtailed his porn use, or even complained about it (unless it was where our kids might see it). I did object to strip club visits and lap dances, because it nearly bankrupted us. Funds we could ill afford were spent, and somehow, I was to blame for that, as well.

Don't assume Dr. Laura has the first clue about how most women think. She's misogynistic as they come.

[This message edited by solus sto at 9:41 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8729 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

She's misogynistic as they come.
Great post, solus sto. Agree with everything you posted, especially the quote above.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9713 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Solus,

What you can't see is me giving you a standing ovation. I second everything you wrote.

I never expected to be the only woman my husband thought about or was attracted to. I just hoped I'd be the only one he'd act it out with.

"Dr." Laura knows only what one woman thinks and that woman is a serial, remorseless OW. I'm saddened that she's able to make money off her sensationalist drivel.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4102 | Registered: Sep 2005
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Hear, hear


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2012
LifeIsBroken
Member
Member # 27071
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, October 21st (Monday)

I didn't have much of a problem with porn until my xh had to view it a good 30 min before hitting the bedroom with me AND had to have it on, sound included, during.... I didn't have to look at the tv and didn't. But I would turn down the sound / he would turn it up / I would turn it down again / he would turn it up again. It became a huge turn OFF for me. I didn't need a 3rd party in on our fun and games. Apparently, he did.


BW: 59
XH: 60
Married 34 yrs, LIBerated: 2/17/11
MOW: 50 (she said she wanted a sugar daddy; xh said, "I'M HIM!")
Actions ALWAYS have consequences. Too bad cheaters don't consider the consequences BEFORE they create so much damage.

Posts: 495 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Missouri & Massachusetts
WhatsRight
Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, October 21st (Monday)

After reading this thread, I have done some research on Dr. Laura. (I know, "Get a life!" right?)

Anyway, I had always thought she was simply an extremely conservative person, and I am not - so I thought this was why I never "clicked" with her. (Come to think of it, though - Dr. Phil is also quite conservative, but I enjoy his perspective on numerous issues.) Hmmm...

But after what I have read - if 50% of it is true - I cannot believe that she has such a substantial following.

Her stance on infidelity is quite disturbing to me - especially in light of HER personal experience with it.

But equally disturbing was her comment to a woman of color who called into her show, regarding her interracial marriage. She apparently used the "N" word many times during the exchange.

This goes beyond point of view, or conservative vs liberal. This is downright despicable. At least to me.

Of course I have a biracial child, and this comment alone negates her influence and existance in my life!

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 8:32 AM, October 21st (Monday)]


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
TheGarden
Member
Member # 40788
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, October 21st (Monday)

My opinion about Dr. Laura: She's just one more hypocritical talk radio personality selling an extremist philosophy to gullible people. Just another cult figure making big bucks off vulnerable segments of the American populace.

It's good to be wary of any one person who thinks they have all the answers in life. In a way, that's why SI is so great - all of us, "right" or "wrong", have our own opinions about infidelity and how one should handle it, but the real value of SI for any individual member is having access to so many different stories and pieces of advice from many different people. It's a great sample of what worked and didn't work for a bunch of people, not just one so-called "expert", who may be biased because of her own experiences as a OW or her desire to keep making money by saying shocking things to hurting people. See also the "Wisdom of Crowds": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds


Me: BW, 39, Him: WH, 43; married 9 years, together 13 years
DDay:July 2013; EA progressing to a PA
APs: ex-"friend" & her enabling polyamorous husband
Status: Dual-income-no-kids, 2 cats, taking it day-by-day, married till we're not

Posts: 61 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Florida
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, October 21st (Monday)

solus sto.. I really like your post.
I respect your value that it is OK to view porn. I do believe that value can be healthy given the right people. Some people also have the value of being “swingers.” IMO, I can respect that value too if that is for them. If you believe this value is off base.. that is your value.
My therapist says protect you. Those are values that come with risk.
And the odds are not good in today society that if you allow yourself to go down that path, people seek, desire, have this inner feeling of curiosity, and when placed in situations of high risk, a person with these values will likely act on it. It takes a man or woman with great inner strength not to act. It then become one of the reasons people cheat.
My therapist will also say that since you give permissions to behave this way, in a deep way, your spouse will give themselves permissions. A good behavior has something to do with connections of two becoming one and always keeping it that way. And sex is very primal. Men deep inside have this want and need to spread seeds. It is every man’s battle. This is a reason.


Everyone can make their own choice on what my therapist says.. I believe him. I have also heard Dr. Laura say something similar.

she has tended to be on the Other Woman side of the coin

I see it a bit differently.
I know this.. Dr. Laura seems to always lean toward you leaving a spouse who cheats. She will tell people to kick them out, move home to mom.. take the kids.. A value we all agree with right?


If someone stays.. she will then take them down a path of personal responsibility. OK what did you do or not do that influenced your spouse to not be happy? And this is where people get most offended. It comes off as a blame game and NOTHING ever gets solved by blaming.


In the beginning of grief, the shock is so powerful our own ego’s and self-esteem is completely destroyed. To then be told your “ influence” is something that needs to be changed and it takes us down a further paths of misery. We comfort those in shock with saying.. It is not your fault, they are broken.. etc.. I understand completely. It is so we can build them back up, not tear them down further.

Fact is, we did not make that choice. Thus, no, in no way it is our fault. But to think we did not have some sort of influence is usually NOT true either. We are all not perfect people.


There are reasons people have A. To point them out is not a bad thing and I tend to think Dr. Laura is trying to point them out so YOU know what to do or not do so you do not jeopardizes yourself into the future so you won’t feel misery.

Men cheat
-because the are not being sexually fulfilled. (So you make sure you fill your man’s sexual needs)
- Revenge (So you behave in ways he won’t want revenge)
- Feel that need they are still attractive (so you make your man feel attractive everyday)
- Just could not say, “NO” (that primal need to spread the seed.. Not much can be done but make this man no longer part of your life or you mix it up somehow “forever”)
- She disgusts you (So you behave in ways not to nag, control, manipulate.. etc)
- Lost love (so you make sure you be quality so they don’t lose the love)

Women cheat..

- Not enough sex (So she must find ways to influence him to want to have sex; if mismatched, you make them no longer part of your world)
- Self-esteem.. (An internal condition or issue.. You seek that endless approval.. It can be exhausting for a man to build up his woman but it can be done with words, actions)
- Revenge/payback for past wrongs (So behave stellar in the first place)
- Lack of intimacy (men often have no clue how to behave intimately, LEARN IT, make sure your man gives it to you in openness and conflict him if you don't get it)
- Feeling neglected/ignored/underappreciated (Men must behave in ways a woman does not ever feel this way; do not bury the feelings.. insist on it.. to the final ultimatum)
- Your emotional withdrawal ( A man must never allow a woman to retreat.. He brings on conflict to correct it.. or makes this woman no longer part of his world)
- Bedroom boredom ( A man must be different, creative, romance, place his woman in the mood…with newness)
- Exit strategy (If a woman disqualifies you, A man does this on his own with his own bad behaviors. FIX YOURSELF)
- Revenge for your cheating (You should not have cheated yourself)

I know Dr. Laura’s message.. Stop blaming others and take personal responsibility. And sometimes that may mean making your spouse no longer part of your world because YOU picked the wrong person. Pick wisely next time and be nice. Be strong.

I can value someone who cheated and changed to know what we BS need to change about ourselves.

Forgiving.. Sometimes we don’t understand forgiving. People must forgive themselves after evil so they can be most healthy.

If we look at Dr. Laura, she has forgiven herself. When you forgive yourself, you admit wrong doing and let it go. You do not make yourself guilty by bringing up the past keeping the record of wrong. You accept you did wrong and the final phase is in your heart. I am not going to discuss it because it is no longer a factor in my life.


I forgive Dr. Laura. That means I do not make her feel guilty. I do not remind her of her sin. I accept it.


I also know the sins I do may not be forgiven. It is not me to decide others forgiving me. If someone does not forgive me, that is there right. It does not mean I should not forgive myself. I say.. I am not going to discuss it. That is all I can do. That part of my life is done, over. I have forgiven my wrong.


Funny thing.. I have heard Dr. Laura mention to infidelity as something so hard to forgive, just don’t. But don’t stay around in misery. Have strength and leave. Strong is good. Be strong. Don’t pick a man or woman like you did the first time and move on in life.


I notice this too.. When someone disagrees with her values.. She will say.. OK, then do what YOU want I cannot help you. That comes off as rude but is it?

It is because they both have mismatched values. She believes her values are better than your values. She can try and explain her values.. but many times she cannot make one think about them.

People have a hard time changing. Values are most difficult to change when our parents have taught us.. these values become part of us.. habit..

Peace to all.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:56 AM, October 21st (Monday)]


Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, October 21st (Monday)

@ trynhard

Sorry, but your post just make me

You can't MAKE your spouse not cheat. If they are unhappy in the M, there are MANY other behaviors they can perform. The BS is UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES responsible or at all to blame for the WS CHOICE to cheat. NOT. AT. ALL.

Can there be problems with the M? Sure. But problems in the M do not make you cheat any more than being out of money MAKES you rob a bank. There are plenty of other HEALTHY responses to that situation.


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2595 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, October 21st (Monday)

The second type of cheater isn’t “bad,” they simply may be going outside the marriage to have their needs met. Now, I want to make one thing perfectly clear: I’m not saying that there’s any excuse for someone to have an affair. Affairs are bad and there is no justification for breaching your vows. All I’m doing is giving an explanation for why some people have them.

I can’t tell you how many times callers on my show have told the lie, “My spouse’s affair came out of nowhere and took me completely by surprise.” I say “lie” because after a bit of questioning, they admit about 99.8 percent of the time that there were problems:

“He complained that we weren’t having sex.”
“She complained that I never listened or helped around the house…”

The bottom line: their spouse wasn’t being fed.

That's from her own blog.

She is a fraud as far as I am concerned. Her status as a Doctor has absolutely nothing to do with her money making schemes. Her hypocrisy is not something I'm interested in forgiving and she has never taken real responsibility for her behaviors. She is an insult to WS everywhere who do take responsibility for their actions and work to being the people they want to be.

She is a blame shifting, disingenuous, racist ignorant adulterer. Actions, not words, and all she does is peddle words that she doesn't live by.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7456 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, October 21st (Monday)

trynhard, I think you're trying to generalize from too little data, and it doesn't work.

You start by seeming to accept that there are many valid ways to live life, but then you say we all accept the value of leaving an unfaithful partner. I don't accept that and never did. (Don't get me wrong. IMO, D is a valid and moral response to infidelity; it's just not the only one.)

Since we're using religious terms, forgiveness of sin generally requires repentance. Most of us would say that repentance - a type of remorse - is a matter of actions more than words. Laura gets very, very little of my attention, so I could easily have missed it, but her actions that I've read about simply don't say 'repentance' or 'remorse' to me. I really wonder if forgiveness of Laura is premature.

Laura takes a position of 'I'm OK. You're not. Other people are OK if they agree with me.' My speculation: She invites her listeners to pile on to the objects of her disapproval. I think a lot of people pile onto her targets because they think their choice is to be part of her mob or to become one of her targets. As I say, that's just speculation.

WRT values, I suspect she chooses hers to serve her own convenience. That's not the type of advisor I'd rely on.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10167 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, October 21st (Monday)

OW always want the BS to leave. Then they can have the WS to themselves. It's worked for her so far.

I have no use for her, at all. She is a complete hypocrite. So her ideals aren't bad - but she doesn't follow them, so what difference does it make?


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Jeaniegirl
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Member # 6370
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Not a Dr. Laura fan. I think she is a narrow-minded bigot. (and that is the NICE thing I have to say about her.)


"Because I deserve better"

Posts: 980 | Registered: Feb 2005
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I respect your value that it is OK to view porn. I do believe that value can be healthy given the right people. Some people also have the value of being “swingers.” IMO, I can respect that value too if that is for them. If you believe this value is off base.. that is your value.
My therapist says protect you. Those are values that come with risk.
And the odds are not good in today society that if you allow yourself to go down that path, people seek, desire, have this inner feeling of curiosity, and when placed in situations of high risk, a person with these values will likely act on it. It takes a man or woman with great inner strength not to act. It then become one of the reasons people cheat.
My therapist will also say that since you give permissions to behave this way, in a deep way, your spouse will give themselves permissions
Whoa, trynhard. You REALLY twisted my words. You may want to make a point, but please don't use my words to bolster it--not when you are distorting my message wholly.

I corrected your initial generalization about women being gross over-reactors to masturbation because it was mistaken and misguided. We DON'T all freak out about it.

You took that and ran, using it to assign me the "value" of being okay with porn--and further, to state that my "value" gave my husband "permission" to become who he is. (Only, really, he always was that person; he'd just lied to me.)

With all due respect, I think you lack understanding of the profound illness some experience, of which porn use is but one symptom.

My open-mindedness gave NO ONE "permission" to shut me out of a sex life, to infect me with foul diseases contracted during anonymous, porn-fueled sex with high-risk strangers, to threaten my unborn children with infection. My open-mindedness as a young wife gave NO ONE "permission" decades hence to cause me unspeakable harm (physical, emotional, financial) and to harm our children as well.

I stayed with him. I would not have, had I known the truth.

No, my "value" that it was okay to view porn had NOTHING to do with ANY choices my husband made. Because I thought I was dealing with the man he pretended to be when, in fact, he was and is a fraud--always has been and always will be.

Most men CAN occasionally use/view porn harmlessly.

How, exactly, are we supposed to know whether we have one of the ones who can't?

Your pendulum swung from one extreme to another. First porn was fine and masturbation harmless and women were just a bunch of hysterical over-reactors--who Dr. Laura appropriately chastened.

Now, it's our fault if we AREN'T overreactors, because we invite (give, permission, in fact) our husbands to betray and harm us if we tolerate it.

I guess we're all asking for it, after all.

And really---Dr. Laura IS an unrepentant OW. Her current marriage was founded in infidelity. And it was not her first affair with a married man. Please don't defend her stance on infidelity without at least acknowledging this.

Another value I know many women hate
- The value in being a stay at home mom.
Really? Many women hate this? Because the women I know respect one another's choices.

I arranged my life to SAH. I worked freelance. When I had to, I worked when my kids were at school or asleep. I was a SAHM.

Know what? My husband created an atmosphere that made it impossible to live with him. And believe me, I tried EVERYTHING to stay married--at enormous cost to my own well-being.

At 51, I was thrust back into full-time employment--at a time when my youngest was tremendously vulnerable (his father's betrayal and abandonment created a profound depression). I work mostly for medical benefits. I bring home some. I continue to work freelance on my "time off."

Dr. Laura would peg me as neglectful of my kids. Fuck that. I'm doing what I have to do---and still worry I will lose the house.

By all means, you're welcome to like Dr. Laura. Embrace her values.

Just stop twisting what others are saying in an attempt to demonstrate her acuity. She already has a huge following, and she doesn't require SI proselytizing. Twisting others' words in order to "prove" her points ...well, seems kind of misguided. (I stopped short of calling it mean-spirited, because I don't think that's your intention. But the effect is actually the same. You may not intend to, but you are causing pain.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 3:36 PM, October 21st (Monday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8729 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

solus sto..
Sorry.. I misunderstood. Thank you for helping me seeing this clearer now. I think I understand your point now.. You were open to porn earlier– Your H still behaved badly – It has nothing to do with porn, but more of his own internal condition. Some men don’t have these internal conditions and can view porn and still be intimate with their wives. Porn is just one symptom. ..of many.. it may or may not be a factor.


I re-read her article again.
It is more about not necessary porn.. Porn happened to be the one “symptom” In this case.. A woman getting angry upset, at her man doing porn and showing her anger. This man did not get the OK from his spouse before he did it and got caught in the act. He did it in secret. The reason this woman is angry is her feelings of disrespect, It is not OK behavior. It is a perverse and ridiculous intrusion into your relationship. It is an insult, it is disloyal and it is cheating. She behaves this way to manipulate her man away from porn.


As I think about the behavior Dr. Laura is trying to give advice.. it is.. hey play along… you might enjoy it.
Be less rigid and more flexible. .. this will lead to good. Well, it might or it might not. But I think this advice tends to lean toward the reciprocity of good.


Yet the battle is with some men, even though a woman will play along.. Some men may still may take if further and further down the path to misery because of his own “internal condition.” As Solus Sto points out.

My thoughts.. This article might be the first step toward a good M but be cautioned.. More can be going on. Porn comes with risk. Not all men are healthy. If you manipulate your H, he may turn away from you verses get closer.. as she points out in the article. If you play along you might fill that need and good will come.


The manipulation, the anger, the punishment.. You are punishing his sexuality.
She writes,

if you choose to make a man feel less than a man or like he is "doing something wrong" when looking at porn - THAT is when porn will take your place. THAT is when using porn will become easier than being with you.

Your behavior pushes your man away..

As I think about this.. You can dictate your man’s sexuality in two ways..
- Manipulation; force him to only focus on you..
- Participate

The participation message may be implied.. Fill your man’s sexual needs. He then WANTS to have sex with you, not fantasy. Forcing never works, they must want. Feed him as she says. Feeding seems to me a far better way of doing things.. But it can be relentless feeding and feeding getting nothing in return.

StillGoing – I think that blog post in context..

The second type of cheater isn’t “bad,” they simply may be going outside the marriage to have their needs met.

“Bad” in that post does not mean cheating is good. It means this man is a good father, a good lover of gifts, lover of quality time, quality in many ways.. he just is not having his sexual needs met and he makes the wrong most hurtful choice to have an A and fill that one missing part.. having his sexual needs fulfilled.. Perhaps even the basic need to spread his seed he fails to battle within. It is the reason… just because it is the reason, does not mean it is an EXCUSE. This man cannot be open, lives in fear, and I do consider that man as broken.

Sisoon.. I think Dr. Laura fully understand repentance base on her writings.
http://www.drlaurablog.com/category/michael-vick/

I often read the attacks on Dr. Laura. Then, when I really look at what she says, investigate it.. These attacks seem to be not valid.. part truths. Twisted.

I know her directness can be hurtful like making a working woman feel guilty verses being a stay at home mom. What child does not want mom to be the teacher, the nurturer.. but sometime that is just not possible. I get the anger and fight at her for backing people into a corner.

That is just the way I view it. The best part is you don’t have to pay attention to her… just click off.


Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
lost_in_toronto
Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

You can dictate your man’s sexuality in two ways..

I don't think that anyone can dictate anyone's sexuality.

Which I think was solus sto's point.


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1670 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

I often read the attacks on Dr. Laura. Then, when I really look at what she says, investigate it.. These attacks seem to be not valid.. part truths. Twisted.

In your opinion.

Just because other people have different opinions to you, it doesn't mean that they haven't investigated it just as thoroughly as you have, or that their opinion is 'not valid' or worse - Twisted.

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 10:08 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

“Bad” in that post does not mean cheating is good. It means this man is a good father, a good lover of gifts, lover of quality time, quality in many ways.. he just is not having his sexual needs met and he makes the wrong most hurtful choice to have an A and fill that one missing part.. having his sexual needs fulfilled.. Perhaps even the basic need to spread his seed he fails to battle within. It is the reason… just because it is the reason, does not mean it is an EXCUSE. This man cannot be open, lives in fear, and I do consider that man as broken.

"Basic need to spread his seed" is not a real thing. It's just not.

Yes, it IS an excuse when it's set up as "He needed to go get needs filled elsewhere" because that condition simply does not exist unless someone decides to cheat, period. If he has to get "needs filled elsewhere" then he should leave the marriage. All that line ever is, is an excuse, and dressing it up and pretending it isn't doesn't make it so. It just isn't a valid reason, which means it has absolutely no place in any discussion about infidelity, which relegates it to the garbage bin of justifications.

Not-A-Doctor-Of-Psychology-Or-Psychiatry Laura is also making a false dichotomy of Good and Bad people, and throws out anyone who cheats more than once as irredeemable sub human trash, and anyone who has "only cheated once" as not actually bad people but not getting what they need - which I call bullshit when a Doctor in the actual field tries to say that crap too.

She remains a hypocritical, remorseless adulterer that rakes in money by giving advice and selling standards she has absolutely no intention or ability to follow herself.

Also, clipping out everything to quote a single line is called cherry picking - you removed the context, you didn't add it.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7456 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

As I think about this.. You can dictate your man’s sexuality in two ways..
- Manipulation; force him to only focus on you..
- Participate

I am confused. If a person expresses their discomfort/pain over something their partner does (i.e. porn), why and how is that manipulation? Isn't it sharing feelings and being honest and, in fact, trying to build emotional intimacy by being honest?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Some people appear to think the message is much more important than the messenger, but I think it's obvious that actions are more powerful than words.

LS's actions speak very loudly to me, far more loudly than her words, and her actions say the wrong things.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:17 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10167 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
foundoutlater
Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Do as I say, not as I do. It just does not work for me. Also the little I have read from her just did not sit well with me.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1131 | Registered: Jul 2011
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I am coming at you folks from and pure "Intellectual" standpoint.. so please, do not get offended because I too have my own struggles.. nor do I believe I am perfect. But I seek and want to submit.

manipulation?

8.Unwillingness To Forgive - "I know you said you were sorry, but I don't think you meant it."

By this definition.. if you say you her actions speak for themselves.. "hypocritical".. IMO, this means you have not forgiven this public person for her past sin. That is your choice.. You don’t believe she has done enough to repent.. shown enough remorse.. so you make that choice not to forgive. and the results of the feelings you have about her?


I know Dr. Laura made the most hurtful choice anyone can make. I have read her post and know she is no longer the woman she once was.. I have forgiven her. That means I accept the sin and I do not punish her for it. That is my choice as someone mentioned.


She has made blog post about some things are not forgivable. That is true. It is true because some people NEVER make restitution. I can see she paying her restitution at this very moment. Teaching good morality and ethic. Learned from her own mistakes.


Silver..manipulation

Physical Aggression, Anger, Intimidation, Threats - "If you don't do what I want you'll be sorry."

A woman can say, "If you don't stop porn.. I will.. whatever you decide to do."


As I think about her article.. She is saying rather that manipulate your H, by punishing him with anger, you play along... You somehow get him to feel and think.. and want him to only focus in on you.. you interrupt the his behavior and be attractive, so YOU attract him.


As solo points out. That does not always work. At that point, you were as attractive to the best of your ability and know this man cannot make a healthy choice. He is what my therapist calls.. An irrational person.


In the article it does not state this man is "irrational" yet. But should a man continue to behave like Solo H, Therefore, this offence you cannot forgive and that might be OK.


Another manipulation.. and this I think hard about this thread… and it is about me.


1. Over-Intellectualization - "There were 18 reasons for my behavior. Let me list them for you."

So I look hard at myself while I give reasons for my words on this thread… Last night, a strong man I know gave me a message. He said I was not manipulating when I merely point out the highest of morality. Those are just facts about life.


No human is perfect nor is Dr. Laura. But IMO, her morality today is on the upper part of the scale based on my reading and listening to her. If you can open yourself up to what she really means without emotions behind it.. You might see her in a very different way. Like I said, I could list them all and have each one of you challenge them.. It might be an interesting Exercise.

She is just one person teaching morality so lost in our society today. Good morality will protect you from misery.


Still.. You and I have had some good discussions in the past.

"Basic need to spread his seed" is not a real thing. It's just not.

I believe this is within a man. You do not. I am ok with your belief. It is what you believe.
I believe this is a reason men cheat. A basic human mental part of a man to propagate the earth.. to survive..

You need to explain to me why advertisers show almost naked women and as men we have inner feelings of physical attract.. why when are at pro football game they have cheer leaders dressed so sexy.. Why some men in the betrayed men’s thread have posted sexy women pictures.. We see a hot body and as men we have thoughts that want us to have sex. Why even when a woman with NOT so a hot body, when she behaves in attractive ways with words, her posture, her work… Why men like that so much and want to have sex with those women. All despite our making a vow. Why we feel those feeling. Too me, it is part of Mother Nature.


It only becomes an excuse when a weak man who gave his promise to a woman, God, his family and friend cannot control himself from these inner feelings uses that to justify his hurtful actions. The reason is what it is. The reason can become an excuse for the bad behaviors. Excuses have zero value because you are pretending there was no mistake and no REASON for a failure whether tiny or huge. It is not the fact we as men have these inner feelings.. it is about the mistake made by lying, breaking a vow..

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:17 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I believe this is within a man. You do not. I am ok with your belief. It is what you believe.
I believe this is a reason men cheat. A basic human mental part of a man to propagate the earth.. to survive..

Beliefs are fine, but this is a belief that trespasses on the rational world without any solid foundation. It has no place in a discussion outside of belief structures, and this particular issue is not merely about personal beliefs or values but an actual component of the physical world and by that measure subject to more than personal opinion.


You need to explain to me why advertisers show almost naked women and as men we have inner feelings of physical attract.. why when are at pro football game they have cheer leaders dressed so sexy.. Why some men in the betrayed men’s thread have posted sexy women pictures.. We see a hot body and as men we have thoughts that want us to have sex. Why even when a woman with NOT so a hot body, when she behaves in attractive ways with words, her posture, her work… Why men like that so much and want to have sex with those women. All despite our making a vow. Why we feel those feeling. Too me, it is part of Mother Nature.

So what? Biological agents and chemical interactions are parts of a whole sum, like a desire for salt and fats integrating into particular appetites. Testosterone is produced from cholesterol but it's not just over simplification to say "I want fried eggs because I am a man and have higher testosterone" but blatantly false when removed from the whole and set as a sole focal point and reason.

I think the vast majority of women models are unattractive. Yes, sex sells, so does food. Our baser desires are no more a reason for cheating than they are for obesity. These are social issues governed by social constructs. In other social constructs where the idea of monogamous couples was alien or non-existent, this entire thing would be a non-issue.

If you want a more in depth explanation of human sexuality and biological functions you'll need to look into some research on the subject form people who have actually studied the field, of which Laura S is not a member.


It only becomes an excuse when a weak man who gave his promise to a woman, God, his family and friend cannot control himself from these inner feelings uses that to justify his hurtful actions. The reason is what it is. The reason can become an excuse for the bad behaviors. Excuses have zero value because you are pretending there was no mistake and no REASON for a failure whether tiny or huge. It is not the fact we as men have these inner feelings.. it is about the mistake made by lying, breaking a vow..

It's an excuse because the reason of wanting to fuck something else can exist independently of *actually fucking it.*

It is not a reason for *actually fucking something else* until it becomes an excuse for doing so. Saying "The reason men cheat is because they like to fuck" is like trying to say "The reason someone fell to their death is because [mechanics of gravity]"; it's not a WHY, it's a HOW. If you get drunk and take a leak off the edge or some asshole pushes you over, gravitational effects are a mechanism.

eta:

As for her blog and her "sins" - she has never done anything in her life to "repent" anything. All she ever does is run away, even when she uses racial slurs.

I may not agree with Dr. Harley (spelling?)the man has conviction and is not out to take advantage of people as far as I can tell. Laura S is just contemptible in that she lacks that conviction and stands on her hypocrisy to profiteer off the pain and confusion of others.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 11:18 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7456 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

It is not a reason for *actually fucking something else* until it becomes an excuse for doing so.

Wow. Well said.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I apologize for my last post. Here's what I wish I had said.

trynhard,

Please, find someone who espouses the same values as LS but who leads a life that's actually in tune with those values.

You'll have a lot more success defending those values than defending LS herself.

A couple of other points:

1) Even if one spouse pushes the other away, cheating is still out of line. Being pushed away can be a reason for D, but it's absolutely not an excuse or reason for cheating.

2) Most of us are wired to respond sexually to other human beings. But we are also wired to be able to live without instant gratification. A picture of Salma Hayek does make me think of having sex, but I have no trouble waiting for an appropriate time and place to do so. (BTW, the sex she makes me think of is with my W.) Also, I can see and even talk with a beautiful woman IRL without needing sexual release, even though my hormones are raging. The world is filled with very attractive potential sex partners, but it's never been difficult for me to stay faithful to my W.

3) I never had a desire to spread my seed. In fact, the possibility of unwanted pregnancy was the main reason I passed up more opportunities than I accepted.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:36 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10167 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, October 24th (Thursday)

sisoon..

You'll have a lot more success defending those values than defending LS herself.

I cannot disagree with you on that...

Peace.


Posts: 2677 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Topic Posts: 74