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User Topic: Am I just to upset and hearing my WH incorrectly?
LearningToFly
Member
Member # 39073
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

We went to marriage counseling Thursday and it was tough. The counselor basically told me that I was not allowing my husband to make things right. I was expecting certain reactions and responses to my conversations with him. He wasn't responding the way I wanted him to so I was getting upset. "He can't win." She said I was "calling it" as in I am the one deciding to end the marriage.

I really don't want to end it but I do want it to be more fair to me. I am not ready to forget what my H did, how he did it and how he is reacting to it now. I don't want to have this happen again. I am still in shock. I don't want to end a 28 y/o marriage with 3 very troubled young adult children. I don't. It seems that to keep it going, I will have to accept that he will not be there for me and that the possibility of another affair.

I want to change and become more in control of my emotions and have a life outside of him. He has no problem with me pursuing friends and interests away from him. I think I will be happier the more I expand my life no matter what he does. So I don't want to walk away. I just don't want to be blamed for his bad behavior. I would also like for him to be there for me and be empathetic. It would help me to feel safer with him and begin to build trust. He doesn't seem to have the ability to do that right now. The counselor is working on this area in him and it will take time. I also know it may never come. I have to take that chance if I want to stay.

We had a conversation tonight which sent me over the edge AGAIN. I said that in our marriage he has been very self focused, runs from conflict, and puts me after so many other "priorities." I have been angry, called him names, and yelled at him. He keeps saying my treatment of him has devastated him. I told him that when my brother was killed by a drunk driver, when our daughter was permanently brain injured from a bicycle accident, and while we watch our son sink deeper and deeper into drugs I am devastated. I was also devastated to learn of his betrayal in having an affair in the middle of all of this. To me his passive participation in our marriage and my over bearing response to that were hurtful but not devastating. We are equal in responsibility for the atmosphere of our marriage. To me the affair is all on him.

He keeps saying that he knows the affair is all on him BUT he did it because of the atmosphere of our marriage because I called him names, yelled and talked too long. I am vivid at this. To me he is basically saying that it is my fault. Yet, he keeps saying that that is not what he is saying, that he takes "full responsibility for the affair". So what is he saying? Am I crazy or too hurt to understand that he is really taking responsibility? Is there a different way of hearing this that would match both "I take responsibility for the affair" AND "I had the affair because of the atmosphere you created in our marriage"

Please help me if I am not hearing correctly. I seem to be the bad guy these days. Its been 6 months since d Day and 2 months since he did anything showing interest in connecting with her again. The counselor says that since he is coming to counseling each week and not contacting the OW, he is doing his best. She says we have to teach him how to connect emotionally and I need to stop battering him. I don't want to batter him. I just want responsibility to be on who it should be.


Me - BS (53) Him-WS(58)
Her OW(55) HighSchoolGirlfriend
Together 30 years Married 28 Kids 24,21,18
D day Feb 26 2013 after 20 months
D day March 4 they met again "to say goodbye"
D day April 2 found out about secret email

Posts: 188 | Registered: Apr 2013
cluless
Member
Member # 40538
Default  Posted: 12:08 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

Yes you are! It's called denial. My WH did the EXACT same thing to me. My girlfriend had just died from the disease I've been fighting for 33 years, I had JUST been diagnosed with two more strictures and had to have MORE surgery. I was so depressed, and crying, I really thought I was going to die this time (first and second surgery almost killed me.) I was also reeling from my son getting addicted to MY pain medication and taking off. I was going to Alanon and trying to get my shit together. THIS is when my WH decided is a good time to have an affair with an old girlfriend, who he feels he was in love with for 6 months of the 18 month affair.

YOU are not to blame for any of this. OUR WH are sick, heartless and obviously wanted to make themselves feel better and didn't give a damn about us. I'm sorry, I feel the same way you do, and I'm about to give up on the marriage myself. I can't get over the anger/hurt/betrayed feelings I have right now.

hugs......


WH 57
BS 55 -- Me!
LTA EA/PA 1-1/2 years.
D-Day 8-12, 2nd D-Day 9-13, 3rd D-Day 10-13 (stopped counting tt still coming in)
Married 17 yrs, together 20.
MC & IC has been a JOKE.

Status: In careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels and starti


Posts: 166 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oceanside
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 4:46 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

Learning to fly,

it may be advisable to start posting in general or recon. I know that for me at least, that sometimes I find it way too painful to go to JFO.

That said you've made huge inroads since you first started posting.


He wasn't responding the way I wanted him to so I was getting upset. "He can't win." She said I was "calling it" as in I am the one deciding to end the marriage.

Now I am not going to beat up the counsellor because I don't have too much context e.g an example where this happened between you and wh. However on the surface I think she has a point

this is something I really did struggle with for about 4-5 months. You need to let go of it, leading by example always helps

He keeps saying that he knows the affair is all on him BUT he did it because of the atmosphere of our marriage because I called him names, yelled and talked too long. I am vivid at this. To me he is basically saying that it is my fault. Yet, he keeps saying that that is not what he is saying, that he takes "full responsibility for the affair". So what is he saying? Am I crazy or too hurt to understand that he is really taking responsibility? Is there a different way of hearing this that would match both "I take responsibility for the affair" AND "I had the affair because of the atmosphere you created in our marriage"

This is sort of what I've said to you from your first post, I don't think you are going to get what you need from him. I still do not know exactly why you are staying however I know this may not change and I do support you a 100 percent

I want to change and become more in control of my emotions and have a life outside of him. He has no problem with me pursuing friends and interests away from him. I think I will be happier the more I expand my life no matter what he does. So I don't want to walk away. I just don't want to be blamed for his bad behavior.

If you do stay this is fantastic building towards a healthier you and marriage anyway, and if you leave it's a healthier you!

I would also like for him to be there for me and be empathetic. It would help me to feel safer with him and begin to build trust. He doesn't seem to have the ability to do that right now. The counselor is working on this area in him and it will take time. I also know it may never come. I have to take that chance if I want to stay.

I refer back to what I said before, I don't understand why you are staying however that is ofcourse your decision to make.


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:13 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

One surefire way to reduce confusion and increase clarity:
Take all the mental energy you are spending on analyzing his words -
(because you want him to do the right thing, be remorseful, & be 'all in' - you're accepting crumbs, hints, and sounds only)
&
Focus on watching his actions.

You're not the 'bad guy' for demanding remorse in action,
but when an adult needs lessons in 'emotionally connecting' I get kind of lost.
For sure you can't batter him to remorse.

Stop listening so much and start watching more.
I hope you get clarity soon.


Posts: 6489 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Smokehouse
Member
Member # 40203
Default  Posted: 5:20 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

I think what he is saying is, the atmosphere was his justifiable reasoning for having the affair. Not saying I take his side, or he is right, but, my WW says the same thing.

I was not there for her emotionally is her chief complaint. She was mean and unreasonable is my chief complaint. She had the affair I didn't. She let her guard down, I didn't.

I admit I was not there for her. No reason to have the affair, but, it did make her vulnerable when the OM paid a lot of attention to her. Still not right and not justified, but it happens every day.

I think the crux is your husband knows he did wrong, and is admitting he was wrong, but in the same breath letting you know there is a problem between the two of you. He is still there with you. Not sure how hard he is trying, that is up to you to see the I improvement.

I personally am improving on meeting the needs I wasn't meeting for my wife. Also, improving me as I go. She is improving herself and showing me she is sorry. I busted my WW ass for weeks telling her she wasn't doing what I needed. She regressed. I eased up and had meaningful conversations about us and she responded way more than before.

Many probably disagree with this, but it is working for us. Good luck dear!


Posts: 147 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Ohio
sodamnlost
Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

It would go up my butt sideways too. Two separate issues - why does he get to combine them?


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
Dallas2
Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

You're hearing right but maybe your MC is not. I would see if I could find another one.

You don't sound like you are deciding to end the M, just the old one and all its flaws.

What does he think his treatment of his has done to you.

You are still early on in this since DD so take care of yourself. Have you seen an IC yet? I would suggest that you go to one and not the MC as an IC.


Me

Posts: 828 | Registered: Apr 2010
EasyDoesIt
Member
Member # 29514
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Wow. My thoughts on this are a bit rough but it's the best I have. When I read the first post on this thread, I got a vivid picture in my mind of a garbage can. I don't know why, but I did.

He's in the garbage can. I'm not sure that you ever intend on taking him out of it, I'm not sure that you actually intended to throw him into it, and I'm not sure that he didn't fall into it himself. Sooner or later you have to take out the garbage, preferably before it starts to stink.

Have you ever accidentally thrown something away like a bill or a receipt, or a check? Have your kids? Has your husband? I have. I've dug through garbage to find something I threw away too, and that is NOT a pleasant task.

I guess you have to decide if it's worth going through the trash to get the thing in there that you maybe don't really want to throw away. Maybe it's OK to let it go, I don't know, that's your decision. But you have to decide if digging through the rotten chicken is worth it to get to what you want to keep or recycle from the trash.

Like I said, it's a rough analogy but it's the best that I have. Good luck to you, hon.


Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3691 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

My take on what your husband is trying to say is;

He had problems with your marriage. Rather than standing up & addressing the problems, he made the wrong dission and had an affair to escape from the problems.

In some ways I would side with the MC.

I would say you are still angry at him for having the affair. So you yell at him, set high standards etc.

Your reaction is to be expected.

Until you go through the anger phase both you and yor WS can not rebuild your marriage.

Can I suggest you go to a gym, put a picture of your WS on a punching bag and beat the crap out of it. Yell at it also. Do this as many times that it makes you feel happy


Posts: 157 | Registered: Mar 2007
Gr8Lady
Member
Member # 36307
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

I hear you. I see myself spitting nails with the justification your WH has uttered.

IMHO I would suggest IC for you. The reason is not because I am pointing the blame, but quite the contrary. The only person you have control over is you. So make yourself a priority. You need to heal. Period. If you have individual counceling you can work through the anger and frustration this horrible betrayal has had on you. The effects are far reaching, and encompass so much of how we react. Think of this simple analogy, in our state we have a discount grocery store that requires you provide your own bags and charge you twenty five cents for the shopping cart. The twenty five cents is returned when the shopper makes the effort to return the cart to the store. Sometimes, instead of returning mr cart to obtain the twenty five cent refund I carefully choose a grumpy, or sour appearing customer looking through their pocket for required money with aggravation. I kindly offer my prepaid cart. I can assure you the expression is absolutely changed. You need to have some true healing and someone to truly care about you. Please be kind to yourself. I hear you and I have been so where you are.


BS: Me (63yo)
FWH: HIM (65yo) serial infidelities over past 35 years
OW: Many, most recent 1/2 his age
DD: Multiple unconfirmed until 2012 when I presented evidence, plus LTA with his friends wife lasting 10 years. TT over past year
So done,

Posts: 607 | Registered: Jul 2012
wheelsup
Member
Member # 34809
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, October 21st (Monday)

This is a toughie.

Some of what your WH is pure reflection ... along the lines of ... 'if you had just not done this, then I wouldn't have had the A.' That's the kind of thinking that makes us so so ANGRY.

When I sat down and really, really thought this through ... I realized that I wasn't so much as angry - but scared. If my H really thinks that he had an affairs because I didn't do '(insert reason here, whatever it may be)' .... then what will make him NOT do it the next time?

What has he learned to stop it in the future? So, he doesn't react this way again?

After all, he could have talked to me the first time around - and didn't. He could have taken any number of actions to stop me from being in a world of hurt - and didn't. SO - what is he doing to prevent it from happening again?

I know we all want responsibility to be where it belongs ... we BSs want our H to say they are to blame. The WS want to 'accept' blame, with a bunch of caveats as to why it happened.

In the end, though, as a BS, what I was really searching for was the changes/thought processes that made it so I could believe this would never happen again.


wheelsup

DDay #1 03/07/2011
DDay#2 04/08/2011
Four Children
2 DS 13, 9
2 DD 11, 6

In Recovery


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2012
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Hi Learning to Fly,

But I do think we as BS own 50% of what the state of the marriage was like before. Of course, the A is all on your WH.

It was hard for me to go 'there' and talk about the state of our marriage because what he did was so devastating to me. I would think to myself, well I was living in the same marriage and I didn't choose to have an A.

For me, 'opportunity' is the number one reason people cheat. Without opporutnity it wouldn't happen. After opportunity it is a choice. And yes a poor one your WH made.

My Wh wanted validation of something. He felt like he was changing all kinds of things and admitting to making horrible choices, and he wanted some validation. My IC helped me see this. Do you think your WH is looking for that validation that yes...you were at fault for the state of the marriage 50%?

It is scary to admit and I did it early on, but I really didn't think about it much because thinking about it made me mad at myself. Why did I let my marriage get the way it was? He did too but why did I?

I like what a previous poster said to you. What are his actions? I think actions speak louder than words. Does he seem remorseful in his actions?


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1440 | Registered: Jun 2012
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, October 21st (Monday)

he did it because of the atmosphere of our marriage because I called him names, yelled and talked too long.

The state of the M can not be the JUSTIFICATION for the Affair. Did he use the word "but" as it is quoted above and has this statement been made and or validated by the counselor?

I would want to clarify if this counselor believes that a person can take full responsibility for oneself while laying any blame outside oneself. If so...this counselor is doing more damage than good. You can not take full responsibility for something if you lay any portion of the blame on another.

Also as angry as you may be, you must also accept responsibility for your behavior. It compounds some already muddled issues.
Yelling and name calling aren't going to help sort out the issues. In fact it may just pile on the resentment and assist in creating more justification. Similar to your expectations of your WH, you must assume responsibility for any behavior that has no justification. The name calling won't change the past, make him "see" what you want him to see, or even take the pain away. It won't fix the years of passive participation in the M, or resolve what I think may be long built up resentment about it. Unfortunately when the A bomb goes off, if stirs up and uncovers other resentments we may not know we even had. We tend to throw all the junk in together and it all gets so mixed up in the aftermath, it takes a good long while to sort out, as the dust settles. Keeping the old issues separate from the A, is hard but necessary.
I think if you can get a grip on your own emotional outbursts, at least you won't be adding to the melee.

As long as your behavior is used by him, as any justification for the A, I don't know how you could feel or be safe in that M.

Your behavior is beyond his control, and vice versa. And that means that for the rest of your M, you would be accepting that his behavior is guided by your own. As long as there is a mixing of "he/she made me do it" attitudes, it will be impossible to create a healthy M environment.



BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Maybe this is what he truly believes. That he is responsible for the affair and one of the factors that went into him being in a position to do this was that he felt you were yelling at him, etc.


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8092 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Let me add one extra thing.

In all the things that happen because of the affair, we have choices.

You have the choice to leave or stay with your Ws because of the affair. He also has the choice to stay or leave the marriage. Be careful that your anger doesn't suddenly become the catalyst for him to leave.


Posts: 157 | Registered: Mar 2007
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, October 21st (Monday)

If Learning to Fly's WH was TRUELY remorseful he would not leave her life just because she is angry and her anger scares him... He might find that he wants to live daily life on his own for a while and give her space...But all in all, Learning to Fly would have to find some way to tell him EXPLICITELY that she wants him out of her life....

Edited to add that many marriages have an underlying current or layer of anger or resentment..
It is all in how the partners deal with the aftermath of major stuff that happens that determine if they should stay together or not....

[This message edited by doggiediva at 4:48 PM, October 21st (Monday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1169 | Registered: Nov 2011
Topic Posts: 16