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Reconciliation
User Topic: This can't be good
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 1:31 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

We've taken huge steps back lately. The last 4 days has been one long argument. I've tried letting go of the fact the he says he had no feelings for the ow but it keeps popping back up, along with a few other issues. Things have been so bad that we discussed separation and even divorce. Then today he wakes up acting like nothing is wrong. This seems to a pattern lately...we fight like crazy for days, don't come up with any solution, I didn't get a single answer to any of my questions and then we go back to normal. We don't discuss the fight at all. As long as I don't bring up the EA or React negatively when her name comes up for business related stuff, we get a long fine. Sometimes we can go days or weeks and then it starts all over. This can't be good. Can it?

[This message edited by Scubachick at 1:32 AM, October 20th (Sunday)]


Posts: 727 | Registered: Jul 2013
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 4:05 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

Morning Scuba,

H and I have gone down this path several times. I expect we will go down it again.

This is some awful stuff to try to wrap your head around. Sometimes it hits me how very surreal our conversations are. I am sitting here talking with my h about his sex life with another woman, not from the past,but while we were married??? There is just nothing that feels "normal" about that. It does seem necessary to talk about all this crap but it sure doesn't feel natural.

It makes me feel crazy. There just seems to be no "good" answers, they all hurt. I can't help but think, this should not be, we should not have to be doing this, this should not be in our lives.

It seems that we go down that path of distancing, talking about D when he becomes defensive or questions the validity of my feelings.

So far after a couple of days he comes around and stops fighting the reality of the consequences of his actions.

I am beginning, just beginning to accept that no matter what he says to me, nothing is going to change who he was or what he did. I have recently started wondering if I repeat the same questions hoping for a different answer. Sometimes now I do get a different answer but it still hurts.

Do you guys come back to each other and talk compassionately after one of these times?

I don't know your ddate, but it looks recent.

My h is only now beginning to be able to talk in a real way. Our dday antiversary is tomorrow. We have been attempting R since January.

It really is not an easy path. It twists and turns and sometimes I feel so lost and hopeless, then the sun peaks out and I gain a bit of hope.

From what you said it sounds like it's "normal". The ups and downs. This is all new territory for us. Hard to navigate because there are so many unknowns and foreign emotions.

One of the things that I try to remember is that each single day, conversation, in and of itself does not seem to hold a great deal of meaning. It seems to be the total of it all over time. Every time we have a bad day, it feels as if it is always bad and there is no hope. Then we will have a good patch and it feels like we have crossed the divide, then here we are back again on the other side. I am trying to not put so much meaning into each and every moment and step back to look at the total picture, we are making progress when you look at it that way. I needed a lot of time to pass before I could do that and still it does not always work.

I guess just be patient with yourself, be good to you and remember, you will be okay no matter what.

Are you in IC? Can't remember, some days I can't even remember where I am! I got lost on appoinments the other day, twice, just because I wasn't paying attention, driving mindlessly.

I don't know if any of this helps. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. This is a struggle. We are all so strong though, it amazes me.

I hope you have peace in your day and a "good" conversation.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1439 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
emotionalgirl
Member
Member # 40184
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Scubachick...I am in your boat. WH is doing EVERYTHING right in so many ways. He is like the man I. First married. If I bring up the EA or try to talk about OW at all we fight, don't get along well for a couple of days and then one day he wakes up and it's all roses and sunshine again. Meanwhile I'm sitting here with my head spinning going "WTF" just happened?

Like you it seems as if I don't bring up EA or OW or react when I hear her name life is fine and our M is right on track total R. I can do that but in the back of my mind I wonder what happens if we don't get to the root of why he had the EA? Will he just do it again if he's not happy again? Something in our M led him to believe it was ok to seek out attention somewhere else. What was that something?

I am at a loss now and although he agreed to MC his work hours right now are not conducive to going (he is working 90 days on 10 hr days with an hour drive on either end...at this point he is not fit to even communicate with about basic home upkeep let alone our marriage)


1st D day: Saturday July 20,2013
2nd D day....when the s**t really hit the fan and the truth came out.Saturday August 3,2013
3rd D day: Friday August 16, 2013...NC sent Friday Aug 30 4th D day NOV 11
Me: BS
Him: WH
Married 25 years....finally in R

Posts: 373 | Registered: Aug 2013
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

I wanted the same answers I never received the answer that my heart and soul was needing...it didnt happen...What I have realized the WS is a great at compartmentalizing. And us the BS we usually tend to make it some absurd exaggeration of what they had the AP and the WS.
We were not there we do not know.
What does matter is how the WS feels now about the way they acted. How they view their life, marriage and you the spouse now.
You have to let go of the fact you do
Not have that marriage you had it does not exist anymore.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3190 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

I am beginning, just beginning to accept that no matter what he says to me, nothing is going to change who he was or what he did. I have recently started wondering if I repeat the same questions hoping for a different answer. Sometimes now I do get a different answer but it still hurts.

First, how are you doing today? I'm sure it's a difficult day for you today.

I want so badly to accept that his answers won't change anything or make me feel any better. Every time I start to, something will pop into my head that will contradict the answer I'm trying to accept. Then I get angry because he tells me he'll do anything to help me heal and to save our marriage. Yeah, anything but answer the questions. I think he won't answer because it makes him feel uncomfortable to think about and then to tell me about it. That's so selfish! My last d date was late June.


Posts: 727 | Registered: Jul 2013
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

What does matter is how the WS feels now about the way they acted. How they view their life, marriage and you the spouse now.

Why doesn't what they did matter anymore? I don't understand that. It sure feels like it matters to me. I just want to understand it. I want to understand him and he won't help me.


Posts: 727 | Registered: Jul 2013
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Sadly Scubachick, he is helping you understand him. He wants to leave the past in the past and be judged on today. He is more interested in his day to day life being 'normal' than he is in your healing. He probably views these conversations as punishment, and he thinks he's paid enough. He doesn't 'get it'. That is him - and that is what he wants you to understand.

The ball is in your court. It today is enough - if you can move on with life with him based on today's actions without dealing with yesterday, then you are set. If you cannot, then you need to decide how YOU are going to move forward.

I understand how much it hurts when they don't seem to care about your healing, and only care that their world is 'smooth sailing'. It's another round of 'you don't matter'. You didn't matter during the EA, and you don't matter now. I can't say that is true, but I can say that is how it feels.

So it is your choice. Accept what he is offering, or don't. Not great choices, but choices non the less.

I am sorry you are hurting. No one deserves this much pain.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
eachdayisvictory
Member
Member # 40462
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Also, just a thought, when I was in those times where I felt as if we only fought if we talked about certain parts of the A (the OW especially), I would write to him. It was very helpful for us, I had the time to process what I wanted to say, and he had the time to process my thoughts and his responses. I heard from him a lot that he felt like I was 'talking at him' instead of 'to' him. At first that felt really offensive, but then I realized his processing time (and everyone's really) is different than mine - longer. When I waited more as we talked, or wrote, I got so much more from him.

Hope this helps in some way, if not, discard it all!

Hugs and love your way.


me, BW: 34
FWH: 35
Dday: Feb 2013
LTA for 2+years
children: 2 boys age 3 and 6
Reconciling

Posts: 380 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nova Scotia, Canada
breakingpoint
Member
Member # 40963
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

I think the times when you are fighting might be healthier than the times you are dodging. Its good to take a break from the bad stuff, but when the A becomes the elephant in the room, you are rug sweeping. You shouldn't have to filter your feelings in order to have peace. That is not real peace, its just an illusion.

Maybe you guys could schedule dealing with the issues into your life so that the conflict avoidance doesn't lead up to a build up and explosion. You guys admit that this sucks and you are going to address it together and control the times of the conversations, rather than waiting for bombs around every corner. That can't feel good or like you are taking charge of your recovery.


Posts: 115 | Registered: Oct 2013
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Hi again Scuba,

How thoughtful of you to even think of me today when you are struggling so. I am pretty good today actually, better than I thought. Yesterday I had a total meltdown, I think I'm getting in touch with my anger and apparently screaming obscenities is healing for me.

I hope you had a good day. I had to work today and this is the first chance I have had to check back.

I understand so well how it feels when you cannot discuss your pain and get the reassurance that you need.

My h took so long to begin that I had just about given up.

I really get now how important it is to really focus on your life and happiness first and the m second. Not easy by any means.

I need to understand who h was before and how he is different now. I need to hear it from him. I need to know what his thought processes were then and what they are now. We did the same thing that it sounds like you guys are doing. As long as you don't get too emotional, talking is okay with your h.

That is not okay. It was adding to my pain. I felt so alone with it.

Honestly he wouldn't face it, make the effort until he saw that I was ready to walk. I was ready too. I was not just bluffing, I had just reached my limit and could not take anymore, it just grew inside of me.

Are you in IC? MC? sorry if I asked before, memory is pretty bad. I have found for me that having the same IC for MC was beneficial for me in that it validated my interpretations of what was real. A big struggle for me post dday, I did not trust my judgement at all.

It is so hard when you know what you need to heal and it is being denied. The more h and I talk the more I understand his resistance. He really struggles with acknowledging his feelings, I suppose that is his fear, the fear of not being strong, of being hurt, of being vulnerable.

It really is such a balancing game. You would think it would be so straight forward. Spouse 1 does the damage to spouse 2. Therefore spouse 1 does the work for healing first. Ideally, in a perfect world but we sure aren't there. I feel like did the initial work, I pushed him.

The most important thing I did though what truly inspired him was seeing the changes and strength in me.

I wish I could put this more clearly. I have been up since 4 and I am a bit fuzzy.

I will check in the morning. I am off tomorrow so plenty of time.

Pm any time.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1439 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Posted: 5:29 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013
Sadly Scubachick, he is helping you understand him. He wants to leave the past in the past and be judged on today. He is more interested in his day to day life being 'normal' than he is in your healing. He probably views these conversations as punishment, and he thinks he's paid enough. He doesn't 'get it'. That is him - and that is what he wants you to understand.
The ball is in your court. It today is enough - if you can move on with life with him based on today's actions without dealing with yesterday, then you are set. If you cannot, then you need to decide how YOU are going to move forward.

I understand how much it hurts when they don't seem to care about your healing, and only care that their world is 'smooth sailing'. It's another round of 'you don't matter'. You didn't matter during the EA, and you don't matter now. I can't say that is true, but I can say that is how it feels.

So it is your choice. Accept what he is offering, or don't. Not great choices, but choices non the less.


Wow! You are so right. No answer is still an answer. He's basically saying take it or leave it. He has said to me several times over the past few days that the future of our marriage is in my hands and that I determine the outcome. I thought our marriage depended on his answers and if he wasn't willing to give them to me than he made the decision for me. And yes, that's exactly how I feel...like I still don't matter. Thank you for your post. I guess it's time I stop beating a dead horse.

Posts: 727 | Registered: Jul 2013
lynnm1947
Member
Member # 15300
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, October 21st (Monday)

And yes, that's exactly how I feel...like I still don't matter.

You feel like you don't matter because he's making it clear that really, you don't. Sad, but true. He's more interested in not being made to feel bad about his abysmal behaviour than he is in helping you cope with the effects of his abysymal behaviour. Selfish, selfish, selfish. His head is still firmly up his ass. He is a rug sweeper of the highest order. Until he sees the light, your R is non-existent. At the risk of sounding too condemning, I'm afraid I have to say that he WILL rug sweep as long as you allow it. (((Scubachick)))


Age: 64..ummmmmmm, no...............65....no...oh, hell born in 1947. You figure it out!

"I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." Garth Brooks


Posts: 7308 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Toronto, Canada
Kalliopeia
Member
Member # 35053
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, October 21st (Monday)

how can she not allow it.

I don't understand.

aren't there just a few choices:

180
leave
put up with it


I am in the same position.


Posts: 478 | Registered: Mar 2012
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Is it still rug sweeping if he admits what he did was wrong? He admits he betrayed me and that he had an emotional affair. What we disagree on was his intent and the details.

Posts: 727 | Registered: Jul 2013
HormonalWoman
Member
Member # 29265
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I think so. If he doesn't look at why he did it how can you feel safe that he wont do it again in the future? The intent or why is very important imo. Details are a personal thing, some people want and need to know them whereas others can get by without.


Together 14 yrs
BW - Me
WH - Him
3 Children
DD 20th June 2010 actual affair was early 2008 for roughly 10 wks.

Posts: 246 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
RippedSoul
Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Maybe you could print out some of the information from this link (on the Wayward thread) about what every Wayward needs to know? It might explain why you can't heal if you can't talk about it.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

Good luck!


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 462 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Update: we've had 2 good talks since then. He tried to answer a few questions but his answers seem to invalidate another closely related detail and when I point that out, he says he doesn't know why or doesn't know what to say. For example, i asked him, when he first promoted her and before anything happened, why did he list her under the wrong contact name. There was something in his head that said "I need to hide her name" and I want to know why because other women that work for him text him all the time and he doesn't hide their names. He said it was because he knew they would have to communicate a lot and he wasn't comfortable working so closely with a female or with her name popping up on his cell phone all the time. So I said we'll that can't be because I read your texts to her and clearly you were not uncomfortable with her. And even if that was true how do you go from so uncomfortable that you have to mislabel her contact name to betraying your wife by taking her out at 3am in a months time?? This is the crap that drives me crazy. Just admit it...you hid it because you were attracted to her from day one and you were uncomfortable with your wife knowing that you were so friendly & flirty with another female!!! You didn't want your wife to know you were texting 700 times a month! Why is that so hard to admit? He tells me that's not true and I will only accept my version of events.
Last night, we were at dinner and he could tell I was upset because we have to work with the ow later that night. He said "I'm going to go out on a limb here and encourage you to talk it" and be actually asked me questions about how I feel and what changes could he make to fix it. He's never brought up the EA on his own ever. First time. He asked me what my biggest trigger was and why.we had a great talk and didn't argue at all! I emailed our therapist a few days ago about the way we were fighting and going backwards. He replied saying that a lot of my past trauma's have opened themselves back up again and he wants to see me to work on those first. So that's where we are at now.

Posts: 727 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 17