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User Topic: How to make up visitation when the kid(s) is sick?
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:18 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Note: If you're going to rail against me about parental alienation or Father's Rights, go away. Don't comment here. If you don't understand that I'm dealing with an extremely abusive, manipulative NPD sex addict who routinely & systematically is destroying the kids with his mind-fuckery, please don't comment here.

It's that time of year again, the time when the kids start getting sick at staggered times & start missing visitation with Dad.

I have three kids.

They get sick at various times & pass it back & forth. This causes one to not go on visitation because they're too sick to go. Then the next time one or the other or both are sick, then the next time someone else is sick again.

By sick I mean a high fever, or coughing that can't be controlled with medicine, or a sore throat, or vomiting, or just, you know, actually sick. Not needing to be hospitalized. Sick. I don't mean minor sniffles.

STBX wants to keep track of all hours that each kid is sick & misses out on visitation and make the hours up on week nights or on my weekends.

This interferes with homework.

This interferes with extracurricular activities (either mine or theirs).

This interferes with bath/shower night.

This interferes with my weekends with the kids.

With three kids, what this equates to is the visitation schedule shot to hell, unable to follow it because either someone is sick or we're making up lost time. We're back to me having to again run my life according to STBX's demands. Always having to check in with him. Always trying to fit me & the kids into his schedule. NEVER getting the fuck away from him. This is unacceptable.

HOW DO YOU MANAGE THIS KIND OF THING???


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Phoenix1
Member
Member # 38928
Default  Posted: 12:55 AM, October 21st (Monday)

My first thought? Illness trumps the visitation schedule and it is time lost. If he doesn't like that, too bad. He can attempt to claim contempt, but if you document everything like you always do he is going to be hard pressed to argue the point effectively about it being in the best interest of the children (unless he wants vomiting, fevers and hacking coughs to invade his home and drag sick kids out if bed). If there is no stipulation in the visitation agreement for illness, ask forgiveness later rather than permission up front...

Just my two cents...


BS - Me
XPOS - too many OW/OCs over 20+yrs
Kids - DDs 23,18 -DS20 Deceased
M Dissolved 2013

This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man ~ Shakespeare, Hamlet


Posts: 1189 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Rising out of Hell's ashes!
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 1:19 AM, October 21st (Monday)

What a selfish POS but you already know that! You need it spelled out in your divorce that if the children are sick, there will be no visitation. Period. This is just another way for him to continue to have some control in YOUR life.

I agree with what Phoenix1 said about documenting their illnesses and state that your are acting in the best interest of the children by not sending them to visitation. It is not in the best interest to have "make up hours" because it interferes with their schedule.

If he doesn't like it, he can fuck himself. Oops, I mean he can share his concerns with whoever gives a shit. Oops, I mean his attorney.

Nature_Girl, sometimes I feel jealous of the others on our board that are getting their divorce ... like they actually GET divorced but then I think of you and I would sacrifice my turn if it meant for you to get your divorce first. Hang in there sister ~ you are so strong!


Me (BS): 43 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Divorced September 30, 2014
"It's always darkest before the dawn ..."

Posts: 2270 | Registered: Oct 2012
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 2:37 AM, October 21st (Monday)

I think the D will be final in the next month. What that won't do, sadly, is clear this shit up.

I've offered him extra time in the past when the kids have had something fun & exciting to do and wanted to share it with him. He's either flat out refused, OR, he's taken the extra time but then stood the kids up for the next visitation. Have to keep the total hours even, doncha know? I finally learned my lesson (at the expense of the kids' hearts being broken) and simply don't offer extra time any longer.

Now he's going to play this game with me. Well, actually, we played it last school year, too, but not this early into the school year. I should have known he'd start with this because I've finally got some volunteer activities I do now (trying to rebuild my social life and make the world a better place at the same time), which are changing the time he can talk to the kids one night a week (still talks to them, the time is just different, that's all). I should have known he'd try to fuck with me like this. He did this to me when we were together, would use the kids to prevent me from having any social life whatsoever.

I am not going to let it happen again. I just don't know how to solve this problem.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Bluebird26
Member
Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 3:33 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Can you call his bluff and send the vomiting child. If he wants make up time he can deal with a vomiting child. Then the kids might pass the bug on to him and he decides for himself 'it's not a good idea for them to come if they are sick'


"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
tryingagain74
Member
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, October 21st (Monday)

In my case, there isn't a "make-up time." I'm not taking the child to Disney World-- I'm cleaning up vomit, having a sleepless night, maybe doing a sick child visit to the doctor's office. In other words, I am doing XWH a favor. He is more than welcome to care for the sick child himself, but since he doesn't want my contaminated children near his precious Owife and stepchildren, he's more than happy to let me do the heavy lifting.

Does your STBX-monster ever want to keep the kids when they're sick? Because as far as I'm concerned, he's letting you do the tough stuff and then whining about his lost time-- but he gets the kid back when the kid is all better again! Yeah, that's not real parenting. Either step up and care for the child when he's vomiting, or shut your piehole and be grateful that your ex-wife is willing to do it for you.


BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3620 | Registered: Oct 2011
LadyQ
Member
Member # 32847
Default  Posted: 6:39 AM, October 21st (Monday)

What tryingagain said.

But I'm also of the mind that I have 26 days with my kids and he has 4. I'm willing to give up "my weekend" from time to time.


Tune out the noise of what others tell you about who you are and work it out for yourself...

Posts: 1650 | Registered: Jul 2011
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, October 21st (Monday)

No. He either gets the kids when they're sick or it is time lost. No make-up time.

I know you're going to say you need to take care of them because he won't do it right and maybe that is the case - it depends on whether their colds/flu turn into respiratory issues or something else serious like that.

If you think he will neglect, abuse or do stupid things with their meds then I would insist that he just miss out. Full stop. End of story.

I have 50/50 and illness doesn't change the schedule. Handovers are done in person when one of the girls needs to stay home sick. I just about died the first few times I handed my sick little girls to that fool and he does supremely stupid things (swimming when my big girl is running a low-grade fever = ear infection a few days later). And he isn't even a sadistic fuck - he's just your garden variety idiot.

If you are forced to 'make up time' then I would insist he have them when they are sick. I would not allow him to monopolise healthy time. I don't think that is beneficial to you or to your kids.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
debbysbaby
Member
Member # 32962
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, October 21st (Monday)

He either gets the kids when they're sick or it is time lost. No make-up time.


This. This is my attitude towards it. He's the parent, too and he's fully capable of caring for sick children. I hate when these dads think it's all supposed to be about fun and games. If he chooses not to get them then he's choosing to skip visitation and he doesn't get to make it up. You haven't told him he can't have them. Does he have a bed for them to rest in? Does he know how to administer Tylenol and Motrin and clean up vomit? Suck it up, dad, when you divorced their mom you signed up for this. Deal with it.


-betrayed almost my whole almost 15 yr marriage
-divorced since 2004

Posts: 880 | Registered: Aug 2011
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, October 21st (Monday)

If the kids are really sick, I make him come help. Seriously. I have primary custody (he only sees them e/o weekend), so if I'm really stretched thin, I will ask for help. In almost 3 years I've only asked twice, and the last time my son was so sick he ended up in the ER.

Otherwise, he will generally take them unless a high fever, and we will switch weekends (he picks up the next one if possible) or he will come and take them out to dinner or something to make up for the extra time.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4185 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Does your STBX-monster ever want to keep the kids when they're sick? Because as far as I'm concerned, he's letting you do the tough stuff and then whining about his lost time-- but he gets the kid back when the kid is all better again! Yeah, that's not real parenting. Either step up and care for the child when he's vomiting, or shut your piehole and be grateful that your ex-wife is willing to do it for you.

No, he does not take care of the kids when they are sick. He does not want them when they are sick and makes sure to tell me & them this fact. He is strictly only a Disney Dad.

He does not have his own place. He has male roommates who he won't identify (he used to live with a sex addict, and used to do his visitation with another sex addict dad & his child), and one of them acts very strange "in that way" towards my children. I've warned the kids never to be alone with this other guy. The kids do not have their own rooms or beds at his place. STBX has never been able to follow directions for giving the kids medication, he's always been either an underdoser or an overdoser.

He knows I don't want to send the kids out when they are sick. What kind of parent forces a sick child out of bed? A horrible parent does that. Is that what I need to do to avoid this problem of "make up" time? Maybe? My sick child this weekend ASKED to stay home.

STBX is wanting to make up the exact amount of hours lost. Not just a dinner out (he doesn't take the kids out for a decent dinner, anyway) and call it good.

So in the future I need to send the sick child out with his/her siblings, yes? Because that's the only way to avoid this problem of then having to make up the hours?


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, October 21st (Monday)

IMO, if he is voluntarily declining to take visitation because the kids are sick then why should he get makeup visitation.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Sorry Naturegirl, I agree with SBB and damncutekitty. You don't have to make up anything. Either he takes the kids during his visitation or he forfeits that time.

He does not want them when they are sick and makes sure to tell me & them this fact.

If he truly doesn't want them when they are sick then he IS refusing his visitations for that child. I would document it and screw making it up. He either sees them during his visitations or he doesn't.

Unless you have an agreement saying time is required to be made up then you have in good faith allowed him his time and he refused so he loses that time. Document it including the fact that the kids are sick and you should be covered. I'm no lawyer so check with yours just in case.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:43 AM, October 21st (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1912 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
hexed
Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Yes if he declines visitation there isn't a 'make up time' option.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8459 | Registered: Apr 2008
Gemini71
Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, October 21st (Monday)

What everyone else has said.

Document that he declined visitation, and he's SOL. If he does decide to take the sick kid, make sure to document any deficiencies in his caretaking.

Definitely bring this up with your lawyer so you can come up with a better plan for the future.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1860 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 21st (Monday)

He knows I don't want to send the kids out when they are sick. What kind of parent forces a sick child out of bed? A horrible parent does that. Is that what I need to do to avoid this problem of "make up" time? Maybe? My sick child this weekend ASKED to stay home.

This is where he is hooking you and manipulating you. He installed the "Bad mother" button and is stomping the hell out of it.

You know that the kids should stay in be and get well. He doesn't care.

Next time it is his parenting time, he gets the sick kid or he looses his parenting time. Once he knows this is the deal I imagine things will change.

We all know you are not the bad mother, you know that too. It is his disorder that is making you doubt yourself.


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2707 | Registered: Jan 2010
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, October 21st (Monday)

I have to agree with DCK and Chrysalis.
I would also add that it should be an all or none thing. If he doesn't feel he can take care of the sick one, then none should go. It's too damn disruptive to their schedules for him to be able to pick and choose which ones he wants.

He is truly manipulating you by making you feel like a bad mom for sending a sick kid to be with dad. If he can't or refuses to handle it then he shouldn't get them. The End.

Please talk with your attorney about this.

((((and strength)))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8707 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
chikastuff
Member
Member # 35288
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Ditto the others. He takes the kids in sickness or in health or he doesn't. There's no make up time for refusing to be a parent.


Me- 32
Happily engaged and moving on

Posts: 382 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: New England
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, October 21st (Monday)

STBX wants to keep track of all hours that each kid is sick & misses out on visitation and make the hours up on week nights or on my weekends.

Sorry but this is a big fat fucking NO.

I AM for father's rights and all that hubbub, what i am not for is Asshole rights.

If he can't be bothered with a sick child, then that's his fault.

Also, (not that you are not already doing this) but documenting his missed visitations when the kids are WELL should be done at every instance, so that if this does come up, you can show him how many times he's missed while they are perfectly healthy.

I wish the Karma bus would LITERALLY hit him so that you wouldn't have to deal with this shit anymore.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2012
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Hi NG,
I agree with the others. I think I would document that he declined the children during sick time. And then refuse to allow him to make it up, including a line that says that it's disruptive to change their schedule just because he didn't want them when they were sick. Parenting time is parenting time, and it shouldn't matter if the child is sick.

Do you think you can do this? Are you afraid of him bringing you back to court? If so, are you comfortable with this solution - documenting everything.

Also, I get your "good mother" comment. I would do the same, as you know.


Posts: 1702 | Registered: Oct 2011
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Yes, I'm afraid of him bringing me back to court. I had to spend $$$ couple thousand dollars in attorney fees when he accused me of parental alienation because he missed two, TWO, nightly phone calls in one week last summer. One night me & the kids were having dinner out as a reward for something, the other we were shopping for something and didn't make it back in time for the phone call. There was no malice or planning on my part, we simply were trying to live our lives and dammit, we cannot be forced to stay home every night of the GD week for a phone call! But that's what he wants, so I had to spend $$$ to defend myself.

So since controlling me/us with phone calls isn't enough, now he's going to attempt to control us further with making up sick time.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, October 21st (Monday)

In the future just tell him the kids are sick but still coming. When he balks and says he doesn't want the sick child, you say o.k. There is no make up time, no judge in the world is going to expect that. It doesn't sound like he has the $ to go to court either. He is always going to be a pain in the a@@, so you need to set some firm boundaries and don't get flustered by him.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I can't even imagine this.

Do you know what your choices are at this point?

I mean, if you already know that he is willing to take you to court for parental alienation, if you dont give any is this what will happen again?

This guy is off his rocker if he thinks its 'fair' or whatever to take your weekends away from you. This is so backwards.

What did the courts say the first time with these 2 missed phone calls?


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2012
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, October 21st (Monday)

No, he does not take care of the kids when they are sick. He does not want them when they are sick and makes sure to tell me & them this fact. He is strictly only a Disney Dad.

I have not read all of the other replies, but I assume I will be parroting other replies: if he doesn't want them when they're sick - TOUGH $HIT! There is NO make up time. Why the hell should you care for them and get them through their illness each time so you can hand off a healthy child to his majesty each time?! FTG! If the divorce isn't final I'd make sure to mention it to your lawyer so that "no make up time for sickness" is added. What a pompous prick he is. Ugh!


Status: divorcing - I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Feb 2011
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Have you talked to your lawyer? What does the state say about it?


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
peridot
Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I've been through this with my ex. He never wanted the kids when they were sick. Too freaking bad! Part of being a parent is handling sick kids. I would let him know the kids are sick and provide him with whatever meds they needed. If he refused visitation, too bad, he didn't get to make it up.

I suggest you do the same.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4788 | Registered: Feb 2008
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I haven't called my lawyer about this. I owe him too much money. He doesn't want to talk to me anymore, and I don't want to add more $$$ to the tens of thousands I already owe him. He isn't in town right now, anyway. Last year when this came up repeatedly I never got a satisfactory answer to this question.

This is a faintly gray area. First of all, due to the parenting evaluation we had, we aren't using anything even remotely like our state's standard visitation plan. A sick kid would normally mean make-up time the following weekend. If I had just one kid, this wouldn't be an issue. One kid, one set of make-up times to schedule. Not a problem.

Three kids will mean a perpetual calendar with perpetual make-up times scheduled & rescheduled. BTDT already last school year. It doesn't work. Someone always needs to be away making up sick time with Daddy.

I think my only option here is to force my sick kids to go.

You guys can't imagine this nightmare. He shows up for visitation up to 15 minutes early (because that's allowed by the state), then hangs out for up to 15 minutes after visitation should be started before driving off with the kids (because that's allowed by the state, to start 15 minutes late). Then at the end of visitation time he shows up early again, sometimes up to 40 minutes early, then hangs out sometimes up to 15 -30 minutes after visitation should have ended before finally leaving. And no, once he shows up there's no keeping the kids in the house, and no, once he returns there's no forcing the kids to immediately come inside while he's still sitting out front.

It makes me think of an animal urinating to mark it's territory. He's using his physical presence that's outside of our visitation timeframe to mark his territory.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, October 21st (Monday)

What are the state guidelines regarding a parent skipping/cancelling visitation?


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, October 21st (Monday)

We aren't using the state guidelines. At all. In any way, shape or form. State guidelines say the following weekend.

ETA: State guidelines say the following weekend for make-up time. Except if the parent refuses to exercise their visitation time, then there's no make-up time. Again, this is a gray area I'll have to pay $$$ to clarify. STBX says that he did exercise his visitation, albeit with only two of the three kids. It is ME who kept the sick kid from him.

[This message edited by Nature_Girl at 2:37 PM, October 21st (Monday)]


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, October 21st (Monday)

NG - I do have some idea of what you are going through my SAWH was on drugs and acting out when we divorced. He is also an attorney. He was crazy and difficult. Under no circumstances was he allowed in my residence, he had to stand at the door. That was my legal right, once he tried to push his way in because he had the right to come in (in his mind) and I called the police. He never did it again and we ended up meeting for exchange at the police station. Do not let him push you around by entering your residence. The kids do not go out until he rings the doorbell. They come inside when they get home and he doesn't.

As for the sick child. You send him an email that the child is sick and you will send their medication. Do not speak to him on the phone and only communicate by text and email. I was within my rights to insist upon this and it made a huge difference. Everything is documented and a smart addict will realize that. He will still try to screw with you until he has someone new on the hook. I pray for you that happens soon.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, October 21st (Monday)

He does not have his own place. He has male roommates who he won't identify (he used to live with a sex addict, and used to do his visitation with another sex addict dad & his child), and one of them acts very strange "in that way" towards my children.

Then you spend the $$$$.
If this is a sick ploy to get one daughter --ALONE -- without her siblings present, then you have to prevent solo visits no matter the court costs.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
monarchwings
Member
Member # 39891
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Wouldn't this fall under first right of refusal? You notify him they are sick, he refuses to take them during his normal visitation and thus the chain of custody reverts back to you based on first right of refusal. Personally I wouldn't being this strategy up until all documents are signed. I think you will be in a much better position once the divorce is final. Oh and FTG....

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jul 2013
peridot
Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, October 21st (Monday)

What you do is tell him, in an email of course, when he shows up to pick up the kids he needs to pick them up and leave your property. When he drops them off, he drops them off and leaves your property. You tell him if he doesn't then you will have the cops escort him off your property. He might can pick up and drop off early but that doesn't mean he can stay on your property.

I've been in your situation. I know how much it sucks to have to deal with someone who is NPD.

If you have to force the kids to go with him when they are sick then you do it. You make it him that's refusing visitation and then it doesn't have to be made up.

If he wants to pretend to be a parent then he gets to act like one. That includes taking care of sick kids.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4788 | Registered: Feb 2008
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, October 21st (Monday)

We don't have first right of refusal in our decree wording. You have to understand, he is a sick, disordered pervert. I cannot & will not use him as a babysitter alternative. Therefore we can't have the first right of refusal thing, even though *I* am a safe babysitter alternative.

FTR, I have already spent $$$ to try and prevent solo visits, but to no avail. The family court system is broken, my friends. It's broken. You can NOT prevent stuff from happening to your kids. Our court system is based on "innocent until proven guilty", and the standards of evidence are radically different in family court than in the regular court system (whatever it's called). You cannot prevent your children from being abused. You can only TRY to take remedial action once your children are harmed, and even then it's shocking how many protective parents actually LOSE custody of their children entirely once an accusation of molestation or sexual abuse comes to light.

We seriously need to reform our family court system.

In the meantime, I'm sending my kids out sick and that's that. I won't have him controlling me or setting me up to be the bad guy or accusing me of parental alienation AGAIN.

God forgive me.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
peridot
Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, October 21st (Monday)

NG, this is another reason you want to send all the kids with him sick or not.

[This message edited by peridot at 6:30 PM, October 21st (Monday)]


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4788 | Registered: Feb 2008
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, October 21st (Monday)

(((NG)))

It sucks.

I think that you send your sick children and KNOW that parenting time is parenting time. His suck ass failure as a parent doesn't change the definition of parenting time.

and because this is perfect:


I AM for father's rights and all that hubbub, what i am not for is Asshole rights.

I am repeating it and taking it down to the quote thread.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5859 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, October 21st (Monday)

This is when I say a prayer of gratitude that my POS personality disordered ass-- I mean ex-- doesn't give a shit about anyone except himself and his nonfunctional penis. Sucks for my kids but as the relatively unscathed daughter of a malignant narcissist/sociopath, I also know that it's better NOT to be on his radar.

Anyway, I'm in the "sick kid? sorry, no score keeping" camp.

If he were normal, I'd suggest that he's capable of caring for a sick child and should, in fact--if for no other reason than to give you a break.

But he's not-- and there's no break when you have a PD a-hole for an ex.

He can just get over it. Your kids' illnesses aren't about him.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8841 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 12:11 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

NG, if he's like my XH ( in the beginning) didn't want the sick kid, and the sick kid didn't want to be there. I would inform him by email, he would refuse by email. He would have his parenting time at his next scheduled time. If he took all the kids or refused to take the sick kid, he refused to take the sick kid-there were never any make up days for sick kids in our situation his refusal does not create an I.O.U. Parenting time on your part. Kids refusing to go doesn't either. Although you are supposed to encourage them to go with the other parent.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:20 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

***vent -- NG. Your state sucks and your lawyer sucks. End vent***

A sick kid would normally mean make-up time the following weekend

I'm sorry, but I just don't *get* this. Your state guidelines actually say that if a kid is sick, then the *other* parent can 'take a pass' and can have make-up time the next weekend??? That's just f'n stupid....so you can thank your lucky stars that your schedule doesn't mimic the state's.

STBX says that he did exercise his visitation, albeit with only two of the three kids. It is ME who kept the sick kid from him.

But from what you've said.....HE doesn't *want* sick kid. Which means that he is forfeiting his right to the sick child and he's SOL. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200 bucks OR make-up parenting time. On the other hand.....YOU should not have to have the sole responsibility to take care of your kids when they are sick. Unless your child is so sick that they are in the hospital....if it's *his* time, then *he* gets to deal with the fever, illness, medication, puke, diarrhea, <whatever>. He is an adult and he is their dad. I haven't seen it written ANYWHERE that only a mom can deal with illness, puke, or diarrhea.

But really, NG. None of this matters until and unless he files a motion with the court. He can blather, insult and grand-stand 'til the cows come home through text/email/phone. But until/unless he drags you back to court over it....it is really a non-issue.


God forgive me

NG, I'm sure that in God's scorebook....you have forgiveness and grace. You are a class act and you have taken the high road at every turn.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8075 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

I swear to God, if you PM me his info I will call child protective services and file a report. I hate this motherfucker!!!


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
landabear
Member
Member # 15046
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Nature Girl, I suggest you contact a local women's shelter. What you are experiencing (the staying on your property before/after visitation) is intimidation and abuse. The shelter should have resources (including some legal help) available to you.

As for the actual visitation question: you send the sick kid.

Consider therapy for the kids: they are being intimidated and emotionally abused by the visitation issues as much, if not more, than you are. The shelter should have resources for this as well. You can help them empower themselves.

One thing they are likely to suggest: have another adult at the house with you, visibly with you, when the kids are dropped off/picked up.


BS
Divorced: March 2006
Married to a wonderful, FAITHFUL man: October 2009

Posts: 741 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Midwest
Afraid2LoveAgain
Member
Member # 11185
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

^^^^

Me too.


BW -- 57
Divorced 2001
Re-married 2014--on what would have been our 35th anniversary

Posts: 427 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: NC
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

God forgive me.

I just have to say that this pretty much broke my heart. And he does.

As a mother, knowingly sending your children to a person who basically refuses to care for them, yet demands their time, has got to be the worst thing.

I want to second Landabear's suggestion of contacting a local women's shelter. If you have a university that has a social worker's major, you may inquire to them about local resources there as well. MSW's are required to do interships in different fields, so they will have far more information and resources then you would think.

Same thing with a local law school. 4th year law students do pro-bono work. The collage here actually has a Law Clinic that helps out those who can't afford other legal assistance.

Call your local Bar Association and ask them about affordable lawyer options.

Forgive me if you have already tried all of these. They are other things that might not have been mentioned.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2012
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

(((((((Nature Girl))))))))

I just want to say that you are a very strong and brave woman. You are doing the very best you can against a freak that seems determined to ruin your life. I know that you probably hate that he's even around the kids at all, and because of the stupid courts you don't have a choice.

Here is a hopeful scenario: suppose you send all three kids for their visitation, sick or not, and he hates the experience of caring for the sick kid(s) so much that he tries to opt to say no next time. You calmly say that visitation states he has all three kids. If he petulantly refuses and says no, only the well ones, you ask him if he is forfeiting his visitation. Simple - he has to say yes or no. He says no, that's it, he doesn't get any of the kids and he doesn't get to make up any times.

I think your gut is right on that it's important not to send any kid over there alone. Your stbx and his housemate sound extremely creepy. ((((((more hugs))))))


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

I like the idea of going to a women's shelter for some ideas. You may be surprised by some of the suggestions they have for you. They deal with scary x's all the time; they know what you can do, and do legally.

The bottom line though, is I think you just need to stand up to him, and not be afraid to make him mad. If he does get mad, then you have grounds to call the cops until he gets the message of what is acceptable or not.

Have the kids ready 15 min before pick up. As soon as he pulls up, out the door they go, and lock it if he goes to come in. He gets pissed and started banging the door down? Call the police.

If he is in the door and refuses to leave, ask him, a few times, then just walk away from him, go to another room, and call the police.

He wants to make up time he refused to take the kids because they were sick? The answer is no. He yells, screams, threatens....keep it if it's in writing, when it does it in person, call the cops.

I normally wouldn't stress to someone on here to use the police frequently, especially with children around. But with your x? You are right; he's scary. The only way to deal with scary is shut him down. Legally. With the police seeing him being an ass. With the police KNOWING you are scared of this dude.

Otherwise, I'm afraid he's going to try to control you for the next 18 years until your kids are all grown. You deserve better than that.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5522 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

NG, I agree with the others. Can you just call a women's shelter and see if they could help you?

One thing I like about forcing him to take the sick kids is that all of them will be together.

BUT, there's another side to the coin. I don't want to worry you even more, but I am concerned that he might leave the sick child sleeping at his "home" while he's with the others. And I worry sick about those men living with him.

Are you worried about this?


Posts: 1702 | Registered: Oct 2011
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:19 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Oh, that thought had already occurred to me, CH. Isn't that sad?


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
ruinedandbroken
Member
Member # 29250
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I haven't read anyone's responses but I think I would probably tell him to FUCK THE HELL OFF.

Then I'd call my attorney and see about getting something in writing about this kind of situation.

Selfish mother fucker!!!!


“People who cheat feel that life is for the taking, and that everyone deserves happiness no matter what the cost. I must remember these tricks if I ever have my soul surgically removed."
Me: BS 42. Him: WH 41 2 Kids 6&9
Married 14 yrs Together 21

Posts: 1575 | Registered: Aug 2010
Topic Posts: 48