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Reconciliation
User Topic: the truth sure can hurt
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

I have had a lot of questions spinning in my head.

One I asked h tonight. I had the answer in my head already, my belief so I figured I had nothing to lose. I already believed it so if he could say it wasn't true it would be a gain. My gamble.

I asked him if he told her he didn't love me.

Yes, he told her he didn't love me.

I think what hurts more is when I told him that hurts to hear, his response, "I know".

Not feeling so good right now. Took a pill and hopefully sleep will follow soon.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1416 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

(((cantaccept)))

Posts: 11742 | Registered: Mar 2008
Tinker01
New Member
Member # 40312
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

((Hugs)) I really thought I wanted to know all the details. Now that I know the most of the details.. I am not sure if knowing hurt or help .


Me 40
Him 5
Dday June 20/23 2013

Posts: 14 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Tinker01
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

I think the worst part is his response to me. Nothing. No empathy, no apologies.

I feel so alone right now. Like he still has no clue or just doesn't care that much.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1416 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
wolf_heart
Member
Member # 35262
Default  Posted: 1:30 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

((((cantaccept))))

Have you told him his lack of emotion causes further pain?

Let him know that when you say things like that it is the perfect time to reassure you that he doesn't still feel that way, that he is sorry and he doesn't want you to feel that kind of pain again.

He needs to own up to what he did, accept responsibility and then help in your healing process. Without all three you don't have R.


Married 27 years
BW: Me, 48
WH: 48
DDay#2: March 2012
DDay#1: October 1992
Attempting R
Without honesty, loyalty, and commitment; saying you love someone, simply means nothing.

Posts: 276 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Southwestern Area of USA
Marathonwaseasy
Member
Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 1:34 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

I don't think this can ever not hurt. My fwh told ow he did love me. Didn't stop them though.
And if that's love then I don't want it
Tell him how much you're hurting. They just don't get it.

Much love to you


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
devasted30
Member
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

Yes, the truth sure can hurt, but isn't it better than the lies? It's possible that your WS knows that you are hurting just doesn't have a clue how much and how to help you. If push comes to shove and if the truth is going to hurt I know I'd rather have the truth than lies. Finding out about the lies hurts so much more when you've invested more time and effort into R and find out that you are still being lied to.
So, yes the truth hurts, but would you rather he lied? Possibly it's a good sign??? At least, he didn't lie and I'm sure he knew it was going to hurt.


And remember Murphy is right. Nothing is so bad that it can't get worse!!!

Posts: 1313 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

Yes the truth hurts. Yes I do want the truth.

I guess I just wish the truth could be made easier to stomach when it is served with compassion and remorse.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1416 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
wolf_heart
Member
Member # 35262
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

I think what WS fail to realize is that the true is better than what our imagination can come up with too.
Not to mention the lie is what damages us. The truth at least is something we can deal with and overcome eventually. With their help if they really want R. However, we don't heal from lies, they only devastate us more.


Married 27 years
BW: Me, 48
WH: 48
DDay#2: March 2012
DDay#1: October 1992
Attempting R
Without honesty, loyalty, and commitment; saying you love someone, simply means nothing.

Posts: 276 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Southwestern Area of USA
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

(((Cantaccept)))

There simply are no ways to soften the pain of such truths.

I can't find any to comfort the aftermath of you hearing this truth. I just wanted to let you know I feel similar pain from the truths that are part of my life now due to my wife's choices and subsequent actions.

I pray for all of us and you specifically this morning.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 10:39 AM, October 27th (Sunday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3949 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
lost_in_toronto
Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

(((cantaccept)))

Truths such as this are the ones that hurt me the most. My WS said similar things. He also found it really hard to know how to provide comfort for the pain he caused, especially in those first brutal moments of discovery.

Time has helped, but the memory still stings.


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1675 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

Very gently - don't expect empathy from a WS for a long time. If they had any to start with, they wouldn't have cheated, and it takes quite some time to learn empathy as a new skill.

It's got to be an additional level of hell to go back and forth. Be gentle with yourself - I think ambivalence is better than ending a relationship before you're certain it's irretrievable.

You're right in the middle of working on yourself. If you're not sure where you'll be in 1, 3, 6, 24 months, waiting and watching isn't necessarily the worst thing to do.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:18 AM, October 27th (Sunday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10334 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

More patience???

Can I purchase that in bulk somewhere?

I really, really, need to sleep, I am getting punchy.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1416 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

Very gently - don't expect empathy from a WS for a long time. If they had any to start with, they wouldn't have cheated, and it takes quite some time to learn empathy as a new skill.

Well stated Sisoon. Took me the better part of 10 months to accept that fact. A WS is devoid of empathy....only care about themselves. Both my wife and her AP dropped their kids off at school then immediately met to nurture their A.... Their own kids were not enough to disrupt their selfish desires and motives. To have empathy a person must be able to stop thinking about themselves long enough to think about another.

The truth that our own children, and the nothing but negative affect adultery would have on them, were not enough motivation to cause my wife to end her A is so very painful. But it is the truth and I can process this over time. It is so painful when I look at our daughters and see how our marital friction due to my wife's A is affecting them.... But this is workable too.

It is not fair....our role in healing the damage from our spouses affairs...but it is an impossible task if the lies continue. At least with the truths of our spouses affairs we can mature due to the pain. With lies we are sentenced to just plain old suffering. And with that suffering we stagnate in our personal growth.

God be with us all.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 12:46 PM, October 27th (Sunday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3949 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

Very gently - don't expect empathy from a WS for a long time. If they had any to start with, they wouldn't have cheated, and it takes quite some time to learn empathy as a new skill.

Needed to hear this today sisoon. Thanks.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17758 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
AML04
Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

^^^^I never thought of this...I needed to hear it. Thanks Sisoon.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
crossroads2010
Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

I am not sure if some people ...WS included...ever really develop empathy. I don't think my H is ever going to understand how I feel no or how I felt b/c he has never experienced it. The WS can't fully understand the shock of the A to the blindsided BS...and then how every new piece of information is just as devastating. They know the details...the timeline...what was said.I must have said a dozen times "What if the situation was reversed...what would you do and how would you feel?" All he ever said was that he didn't know how he would react...except that he'd probably want to kill the guy and that he really wouldn't want to know. I have just had to accept tat he may never have the empathy and remorse I want him to...and yes this is hard to accept. I have read about WSs having "ah ha" mommebts where they suddenly get it, but I don't know where these come from or how to get my H to have one.
As for the fact that he told her he didn't love you...he may have thought he meant it at the time, or maybe he knew it wasn't true but seemed like the thing to tell her. I read things that my H said to OW that hurt me greatly, but some of it was not true. For example, he told her we would not be intimate unless I initiated it...he initiated all the time. He lied to her as well as me on more than one occasion....it is all part of the dual life of the A fog.

Posts: 598 | Registered: Nov 2010
Raven96
Member
Member # 40298
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

I am so sorry that you were hurting last night. Hopefully you got a good night's sleep and today was much better for you.

I love what sisoon said. They have to learn empathy, and it takes a long time. So true! Keep taking those baby steps!

(((cantaccept)))


Marriage isn't a test, so why cheat?

Posts: 379 | Registered: Aug 2013
sodamnlost
Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

Yes, he told her he didn't love me.

I think what hurts more is when I told him that hurts to hear, his response, "I know".

(((((((Hugs))))))

Totally get his reaction being almost worst. The look on WH's face when he told me he loved his AP is burned into my brain. No emotion, none. So sad how much denial causes so much pain.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 769 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

Ugh - I hate that feeling when you hear the horror that was going on behind your back. If it helps at all, it really doesn't feel better when the OW knows your H loves you. The OW in our situation was a friend, so she knew quite well that H and I both loved each other, and that he wasn't planning on leaving me. That is a special kind of crazy-making, I can tell you.

But doesn't your H's "I know," show some kind of empathy? Maybe he doesn't know what to say beyond that. . have you tried asking him how he feels when he talks about it? I know my H feels tremendous shame, that can look like aloofness if I don't press him on it. What would be even more important to hear, is how your H feels about it now. Our conversations usually go something like this:

Did X happen? Response: (usually horrible - I am not one of those people who usually finds out reality is better than my imagination. Gut wrenching.)

How did you feel about it then? Response: (Also, usually bad. Usually something I don't want to hear. Ick and disgust.)

How do you feel about it now? Response: (Generally makes me feel much better - not the same as when he was in his delusional state.)

There are hundreds of deleted emails between my H and OW that he deleted before he told me. I am quite sure that I don't ever need to know what they said. I think for most of us, we can assume that our spouses were out of their minds for a period of time -- high on infatuation. It is a shame how something as wonderful as the idea of love can be perverted to feed hurt egos and self-delusion.

So, I guess the question is, is how meaningful is this "new" information, anyway?

[This message edited by bionicgal at 10:51 PM, October 27th (Sunday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, October 27th (Sunday)

As for the fact that he told her he didn't love you...he may have thought he meant it at the time, or maybe he knew it wasn't true but seemed like the thing to tell her. I read things that my H said to OW that hurt me greatly, but some of it was not true. For example, he told her we would not be intimate unless I initiated it...he initiated all the time. He lied to her as well as me on more than one occasion....it is all part of the dual life of the A fog.

I suspect this is very appropriate to post here. I believe my wifes AP is quite skilled at saying exactly what he needs to when he needs to, to whom he needs to (himself, his wife, his kids, his OW) in order to nurture his chosen path for life on this planet. He was the one to break up their A (confirming his feeling of being in control), is reported to have had others before my wife and found another within months of ending his fling with my wife.

I suspect he has said many things to his APs that would be hurtful to his wife, but not necessarily true, but provide him the control he is after. He has said an equal amount of things to his wife to control her, to keep her from interfering with his plans to step out on his marriage and his kids. It appears he uses lies to inflict suffering...not just pain...but suffering, which is what you get from lies. You cant process suffereing...he is very happy to have her stop right where she is. Because if the lies stoped she could choose to change and process into a position of control far easier. Due to his manipulation she, unfortunately, is ill-equipped to do any better. She knows about her husbands A...but, truthfully, when I approached her the A had not gone physical....so to this day it is highly likely she still questions if her husband even had an A with my wife. I had thought about telling her the new info I have discovered since DD, but that is not my truth to convey to her. My wife is no longer connected to her husband...no longer a threat to her family or kids. It up to him to decide if he wants to do better by being truthful or do the same via lying.

After a persons DD, they know-better....but not everyone chooses to do better. Some may NEVER choose to do better.

The look on WH's face when he told me he loved his AP is burned into my brain. No emotion, none. So sad how much denial causes so much pain.


Yep, will remember the look on my wifes face that evening of my DD too.

Not to mention the lie is what damages us.

The above quote COULD be the path for some fWS to nurture empathy for this situation....that they are acutely familiar with lying and the damage it does to ALL involved. I agree the trauma and pain caused to us by a WS lying is uniquely painful to a BS....but surely someday, sometime a repentant fWS will connect the dots enough to see how lying to themselves hurt them. I believe my wife is starting to grasp this.

But doesn't your H's "I know," show some kind of empathy? Maybe he doesn't know what to say beyond that.

I agree most WS are ill-equipped to handle such expressions fully and completely. And this is where learning to R comes in....a fWS MUST learn to say more, much more beyond that. This inability to do so led, in part, to adultery being an option. This inability to do so, in part, has the real danger to stagnate R and that persons ability to grow past themselves.

Honestly, I spoke harshly of my wifes AP indicating he is some sort of predator or affair addicted person...and he may be. But the truth of lying at this level is that...my wife was quite skilled at this too, as are most WS. We were in weekly MC sessions, wife was doing IC sessions...and yet her A continued and escalated to PA AFTER DD and while she was professing to myself, her sister, and other close friends that it was over. This is a truth that hurts as well. A hurt that she choose to administer. A hurt that simply would not have taken place if lies and deception were not involved.

My wife very proudly tells me she never ran me down while with her AP, never even spoke of me while with him. It is laughable now...but there was emails from her AP to contradict this bold statement. Such as the one on a day that I came home from work early to talk more about my wifes A. In this email he states....Saw blakesteeles truck home early, thinking of you, hoping you are doing okay. Her response was yeah, its cool...just another day of him talking ad nauseam as usual....and ending with the cute love tones most of those emails had. As if he cared about my wife and her family. As if she cared about me and our girls. He only cared about one thing...himself. And only cared about fucking my wife. She shared similar concerns. He hit both of those goals...we were getting what we wanted and no one was the wiser or getting hurt....this was only possible through the skillful use of lies and deception.

I believe this is part of the reason my wife could choose adultery...by her stating this in such a manner it was as if she was minimizing just how hurtful her actions were to me and our girls, just how little risk our family was in due to her actions. This was a lie too....there were emails where she wrote things like. Thank God its Monday--blakesteele back to work and we can get back to it. While this debunks that I was ever talked about in a bad light with her AP, it enabled my wife to feel as if she was still respecting our marriage somehow....insane, but could see how twisted logic could play this out.

My gut tells me that, had I not discovered her A it would have escalated to the point that she would break her family to be with him.
God help me for this belief...but my wife was so intentional with her lies and deceit that this was a real option. Stuff you only see on the news...and it happened right here...in my marriage.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:06 AM, October 28th (Monday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3949 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, October 28th (Monday)

Dang...my last post to this was long. Lying is a trigger for me.

Add to this the fact that it is Monday....toughest day of the week for me....and I get why my post ran long.

If I could get any WS to do just one thing...it would be to end the lies. Sure I want marriages to work, kids to have full time mom and dads, retirement plans to continue on as planned, etc..

But if they could just stop lying I would gladly say....

Fuck the marriage, fuck the kids having both mom and dad full time...marriages can end, divorces happen, custody decrees are a dime a dozen...but the truth is the only thing that people can deal and heal with. I could have processed through my parents divorce more completely had I been given the truth, had my parents actually been brutally truthful with each other.

Lying doesn't keep a M together and doesn't protect kids from pain or damage.

But this is something only a person can choose for themselves....and a WS had so much reward, albeit short term and fleeting, for the depth at which they lied that it is all but impossible for that to end overnight....thus the fog.

I use this thought daily now....trying to incorporate truth in everything I do....I am quite capable of lying too.

We are making decisions every day. Doesn't it just make sense to be as truthful as we can be so we stand the best chance of making a productive (instead of destructive) decision and one that is in line with Gods plan for us?

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:49 AM, October 28th (Monday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3949 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Topic Posts: 22