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User Topic: Anyone else's WH say they no longer want to be monogamous?
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, October 28th (Monday)

... that's the line my husband is giving me.

Here's my story...

2 years ago, we lost every penny to our name and had to move with our 3 kids into my step-mom's basement.

6 months ago, I noticed my husband was being really cold (things had been strained between us because of our difficult circumstances, but he was being EXTRA cold).

So, I asked to talk to him about it and he was being really strange... saying we should split up, that I should get a boyfriend etc etc. So, I started getting suspicious and asked if he was seeing someone. Of course he denied it. So... I looked through his emails and there was the evidence... many many emails to each other about sex, what they were going to do the next time they saw each other etc.

So, I guess June 10th 2013 can know be known as my dday. He told me he loved me, wanted to stay together and that he would end it with her.

Ugh, I believed him.

The next 3 months were amazing... we both put more into our marriage than we had in years. We fell in love all over again and things were better then ever.

That's until I discovered text messages that showed that it wasn't over between them at all.

So, now his position is that he has never believed in monogamy and that he only lived that way because it's what I needed. Now he has seen the "other side", he says he wants to be able to have sex with other people...

Yet, he wants to be with me forever, loves me, wants to keep our family together etc.

He claims that allowing him to do what he needs to do is actually GOOD for our marriage.

All the stuff I read on here talks about no contact with the OW... he refuses. He is a musician and she is a singer that he plays with. He will not stop working with her, nor will he stop having occasional sex with her.

I haven't heard anyone on here in a similar situation... my husband doesn't blame me for the affair, doesn't want to leave me for her... he wants BOTH.

So, I keep flipping back and forth between turning a blind eye and being incredibly hurt and angry. When I turn a blind eye, and just don't think about it... we are actually really good together... he is very loving and we get very close.

But, then every few days I get bowled over with the pain and reality of my situation.

I have two choices now... I can continue to just be ok with what he's doing and keep our marriage together, or we can split and be in separate bedrooms in the same house (we have finally gotten out of my step-mom's house, but can't afford two places)

Neither of these options is very good at all.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it possible to just allow him to do his thing, to explore his dark side (as he puts it) and keep our marriage and family together?

Thanks so much for all of your love and supportÖ it's been great reading about other experiences here.

PS: What is the 180? I keep reading about it, but can't find it on here.

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 5:43 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, October 28th (Monday)

OMG! Honey marriage is 2 people not 3 or 4. What makes you believe you dont deserve a monogamous marriagd? Do you want your children believing it is ok to cheat?
My god I want to slap your WS!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3186 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, October 28th (Monday)

I know, I know... everyone I talk to wants to slap him - myself included and I came REALLY close today... ah, would've felt so good

I DO believe I deserve a monogamous marriage. But I also believe we have a lot together and just don't feel ready to give it up I guess.

It's messy, I know


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, October 28th (Monday)

... and the thing is... I am in the best shape of my life, have never looked better, am 10 years younger than him and she is 8 years older than him (and looks 20 years older lol)

I think a big part of it is that HE doesn't feel good about himself and somehow she has made him feel better.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
1devastedmom
Member
Member # 38399
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Oh hell no! You can't stay in a marriage like that, you deserve a faithful husband and it's too late to change the rules. You don't want to teach your children that this is an acceptable way to treat your spouse.


Me BS: 42
WH: 44
DDay- April 17, 2013
Married 22 years
3 children: 18, 15 & 9
Reconcilling

Posts: 133 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: 1devastedmom
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, October 28th (Monday)

The 180 can be found in the healing library-the yellow box in the top left of the screen.

I hate your husband for you.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7533 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, October 28th (Monday)

@williesmom - Thanks... I have looked all through there - is it under articles, books...?

And yah... at this particular moment, I hate him too. I feel like he's from another planet.

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 6:08 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, October 28th (Monday)

It's in BS frequently asked questions- it's number 11


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7533 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, October 28th (Monday)

They don't always say it in so many (selfish and idiotic) words, but I think all of our WSs have told us they no longer wish to be monogamous.

I'm sorry you're here,but glad you found us.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8537 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, October 28th (Monday)

I think a big part of it is that HE doesn't feel good about himself and somehow she has made him feel better.

This is what all affairs are about! A broken WS and a sleazy, ego feeding OW. Or, perhaps two broken WSs. But either way, it's the ego, not the sex.

You need boundaries, and he needs to walk the line he vowed to walk when you were married, or he needs to go.

If you want this life, then keep doing what you're doing, but if not, then get him OUT. He is a complete cake eater and has you so beaten down with his bullshit that you're trying to convince yourself that this is ok, when you know damned well IT IS NOT.

Do not buy into his shit - which is what it is. He wants to convince you that it's fine, and that all will be well, and that somehow this is good. Good for who? Certainly not for you, when you're laying awake while you know his show is over and he isn't home.

He's acting like a selfish pig! He needs a really rude awakening. I'm so sorry he's playing with your mind like this, but that's what this is.

He lied to you about it being over, and then, when you thought you were rebuilding he was still at it. Then, when you discover it again, and feel shattered, he brings this shit up? OH HELL NO!!


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1876 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, October 28th (Monday)

@williamsmom - aaah, thank you SO much!


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Do not buy into his shit - which is what it is. He wants to convince you that it's fine, and that all will be well, and that somehow this is good. Good for who? Certainly not for you, when you're laying awake while you know his show is over and he isn't home.

Oh wow... you so nailed it. That's exactly what's happening... panic attacks at 2:30am when he's not home yet. I guess this is all pretty text book.

Thanks for your message... it's all so true and I really do need to give my head a shake.

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 6:17 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, October 28th (Monday)

They don't always say it in so many (selfish and idiotic) words, but I think all of our WSs have told us they no longer wish to be monogamous.

Yes, that's a great point. So do you think it's possible for him to come around... because his stance right now is that he never wants to be monogamous (sometimes he just says too much, you know?).

And thank you for the welcome... so glad I found you too and have a feeling I'll be spending a lot of time on here.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, October 28th (Monday)

We've all nailed it, because we've all been there. Your husband isn't different, or special, and he doesn't have some magic outlook on life. He's a cheating piece of shit right now!! Can he change? Yes, but right now? CHEATING PIECE OF SHIT

You deserve better. Your kids deserve better than a mom that hasn't slept because dad needed his fix with some grandma roadwhore. Sorry, but this is bullshit.

Your WH thinks he has the world by the balls - a sleazebag to puff his ego and a wife to allow it. You don't want this!

What happens when some drunken slut in the audience gives him the eye? Is that ok too? Is anything he wants ok? What about when you get some disease because of his activities?

You deserve some kind of normalcy, and he isn't willing to give it. You need to take what you want, and see if he's willing to follow. If he is, great. If not, then you've saved yourself from more 2:30 am panic attacks and you've started to move on to a better way of living.

You can do this, if you want this. You don't need to accept whatever scraps he's throwing, and I'd be damned if I was going to let my H have as many rolls in the hay as he wanted with some geriatric slut!!


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1876 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
AlexFL
Member
Member # 40966
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Mine isn't the same but mine is a serial cheater. I too thought we were building our relationship this past year. It took everything I had to let him back in my heart. I found out a couple weeks ago he had a random again. This time confirmed no condoms. But part of me still feels sorry for him and thinks of all the good we have together. We have been together 24 years. I just spent an hour going thru old family photos bawling my eyes out. So although it's not exact - I can tell u that I too wonder every time he is late, or he says he got a flat, or wants to take a 3 hour walk.... It doesn't go away. You can turn a blind eye but the pain will be there and it will surface other ways. It kills me this is the end of my relationship. We have kids also. But literally I'm afraid this sadness will kill me if I stay. I can't fix him. That's his journey. I can only fix myself and try to disect why I am so loyal to a man that continues to break my heart.

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, October 28th (Monday)

@painfulpast OMG... I am laughing my face off right now ... THANK YOU for that. You are so right. I just read the 180 and I've been doing everything wrong since I found out 4 months ago.

For now, we'll do separate bedrooms and I will live my life for ME (and my kids of course) and follow that 180... it's great

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 6:38 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Mine isn't the same but mine is a serial cheater. I too thought we were building our relationship this past year. It took everything I had to let him back in my heart. I found out a couple weeks ago he had a random again. This time confirmed no condoms. But part of me still feels sorry for him and thinks of all the good we have together. We have been together 24 years. I just spent an hour going thru old family photos bawling my eyes out. So although it's not exact - I can tell u that I too wonder every time he is late, or he says he got a flat, or wants to take a 3 hour walk.... It doesn't go away. You can turn a blind eye but the pain will be there and it will surface other ways. It kills me this is the end of my relationship. We have kids also. But literally I'm afraid this sadness will kill me if I stay. I can't fix him. That's his journey. I can only fix myself and try to disect why I am so loyal to a man that continues to break my heart.

I so feel your pain... I do believe we'll get through this one way or another. HUGS to you.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
shatter-ed
Member
Member # 27159
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Sorry you find yourself here but welcome, it is a great place for comfort and support !

Your WH had an A, you thought you were reconciling, it was false reconciliation and when you find out he comes out with this shit? No no no no no, he is cake eating.

We can't afford two houses either but FWH was immediately remorseful- though I did have a few months of TT- but he wouldn't dare suggest carrying on his A cos we would D no matter how much of a financial struggle that would be. Does he think you have to agree to him sleeping with OW because he knows you can't afford to D?

Sounds like this is boosting his ego no end, having sex with OW and then coming back to you being really good together, and loving and close. This is not 'good' for the M it is good for HIM!

The 180 may be what is good for YOU right now!
(((sueonthemove)))


BS (me)
WH
3 amazing kids.
R - trying.
DDay - 06/11/09 MOW desperate fugly neighbor

Posts: 599 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: uk
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, October 28th (Monday)

If you want monogamy in your M, you should have it. You're not great together if he's fine with slowing cutting your beating heart out of your chest and feeding it to his slut.

From what I understand open marriages have to start as open marriages...or the very least both parties have to willingly agree to it before infidelity occurs. Otherwise it's just one partner getting his (or her) way while the other gives in out of desperation.

Also, in an open M, which is what he seems to be proposing, there is utmost respect for the spouse. If the spouse nixes a sexual entanglement, the other spouse is supposed to end it. Primary focus is supposed to be on maintaining the integrity of the M. He is not doing this.

I'm sorry he's using your love for him to cake eat. The fact is, the man you love no longer exists. If he existed, he couldn't callously cause you the pain he's causing you. Can he come back to the M? Yes, but usually not unless he has to face reality and that's usually the possibility of loosing the BS.

You can't afford two places? Have him move in with his slut and let her take care of him and share him with random skirts he decides he has a right to chase.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11114 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, October 28th (Monday)

If you continue to turn a blind eye, why would he ever stop? If you don't want to share him, you need to stop accepting it. Do the 180, get stronger for yourself, and withdraw from his life. Let him do his own laundry, or let OW do it. Don't cook for him, or do any of the things a wife wants to do for her spouse. There can't be three in a M, if he won't giver her up, then you back out. He doesn't get to have it all and you get crumbs. FTG.


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2936 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
Broken1Again
Member
Member # 32211
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Basically what he is saying is "I want to cake eat and don't want the guilt associated with it, so deal". How do you feel about it?

Do you play sports? I liken this to a hockey game where you shoot and the puck goes past the goalie and you celebrate, but the ref says "no goal". You say "why?" He says, "because I've decided to change the rules and you now have to shoot the puck over the net for it to be a goal." And you are left going "huh???"

(Can you tell I play a lot of sports!) But really, your WS has changed the rules mid game/mid-season. He can't do that. You don't marry someone, take vows, and all of a sudden years later say "I don't like those vows, I'm going to change it without talking to my spouse".

Let's face it. If your WS was really really struggling with monogamy, why wouldn't he have said something years ago? Why wait til he is having an A before declaring he no longer wants to be monogamous. How convenient...FOR HIM!

Put your foot down and tell him no. Tell him it's her or you and be prepared that he might choose the OP. Having said that though, you are better off knowing now then to keep living this charade where only one of you is happy.


BS: 40
WS: 42
Two boys 13/11
Married 15 years
Dday: too Many to remember. 3 significant OW and many "less"'significant OW. Believe WS has bad boundaries and craves the attention.
In R.

Posts: 859 | Registered: May 2011
Gr8Lady
Member
Member # 36307
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, October 28th (Monday)

This is a marriage, partnership, which simply put it isn't all about WS and what he wants.
What do you want. Better yet what do you deserve?
Certainly not a selfish WS that does not recognize the complete and total disrespect he is asking of you.
It is still all about him.


BS: Me (63yo)
FWH: HIM (65yo) serial infidelities over past 35 years
OW: Many, most recent 1/2 his age
DD: Multiple unconfirmed until 2012 when I presented evidence, plus LTA with his friends wife lasting 10 years. TT over past year
So done,

Posts: 607 | Registered: Jul 2012
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, October 28th (Monday)

This post about the 180 is also great.
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 24920 | Registered: Aug 2011
Housefulloflove
Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, October 28th (Monday)

My ex is a giant coward so he clearly said it in actions but would never say it in words.

He started reading books on polygamy but swore that it was just "interesting to read" and not a reflection of what he believed. He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire.

But still it was just what he was reading not his beliefs!

Then he had an affair and thought that I had to accept his girlfriend. That was when the sick bastard starting using the BIBLE to defend his actions! After all they had sex so she was kind of like his new wife now! That POS would have said anything to get me to go along with the disgusting shit he was trying to pull. I swear when I think back to some of the craziness, I don't know how I maintained enough control to avoid committing a felony.

During the week between Dday and when I kicked his sorry ass out of the house, he even began to make arrangements for how he was going to split his time and asked me for permission to help her run an errand on what turned out to be his last day in our home. I guess my delay in reaction gave him the impression that he was going to get what he wants. One of the reasons why he is so full of anger now is because I destroyed his sick fantasy world he thought he finally created.

Your WH is an asshole saying and doing asshole things. He would tell you the sky is green with sincerity if it meant he got to do something he wanted to do. The issue isn't his belief in monogamy. He wants to see if there is a chance for him to have a wife to take care of him while he has a girlfriend on the side.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 7:43 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
Gemini71
Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, October 28th (Monday)

I'm sorry honey, but if any of them wanted to be monogamous, they wouldn't have cheated. You're WS isn't remorseful and wants your permission to cheat. It's up to you to decide if you can do that or not. Honestly, you deserve better.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1641 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
LeopoldB
Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, October 28th (Monday)

sueonthemove,

Everyone here will provide very good advice. I can help provide not-such-great advice, so take it with a grain of salt.

He is 53. She is 61? You are 42. If you want your marriage and life back, time is on your side. This will not provide you the quick clean victory you want and deserve, but flash-forward 5 years. She is 66, a life of hard living has taken its toll. He is 58, maybe gets results of a medical exam that makes him start facing his own mortality. You are 48 and look hot, girl. 5 years later, she is 71 assuming she quits smoking. He is 63 and the audience for his music retires to bed shortly after the early-bird special stops serving. You are 53 and scorching hot, girl.

I am not suggesting that you do nothing and just take it.
Does he deserve your patience? No. Does she deserve a decade with your H? No.

But if you want to win, you can. The question is how to go about it and is life with him worth it. He does not sound like such a great prize, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

[This message edited by LeopoldB at 8:05 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Posts: 195 | Registered: Sep 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, October 28th (Monday)

wow, you are all so AMAZING. I feel so empowered reading your posts and going over and over the 180. I haven't talked to WH much today, but I'm going to let him know that I'm not willing to be with him while he is having his A. That we can discuss again sometime if he changes his mind, but for now we will stay in separate bedrooms until we have other options.

Thank you all so so much... from the bottom of my (soon to be repaired) heart


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
PolyGal
Member
Member # 20396
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, October 28th (Monday)

So... I am not monagamous.

A lot of people, when transitioning from mono to poly, make a lot of mistakes. Ideally people would go into a marriage already having figured this out but that doesn't always happen. But bottom line is that he made an epic mistake. And as someone who isn't monogamous I agree that he needs to do whatever it takes to earn your trust back, because he cheated including ending that particular relationship. So yes, 180 his ass.

However, he may very well be serious that he doesn't want to be monogamous forever. And if you want to R, even if he does break it off with the OW, this is still going to be an issue.

Best case, he breaks it off with her, and you decide together if you want to be mono or poly. If you want to be mono and he wants to be poly then one of you will have to give up the preferred status to stay together. Or, you can decide together that you're fundamentally incompatible and decide to divorce. I suggest finding a counselor for MC to work through this together, to help figure it all out. If you're curious about poly styles a good place to start is http://openingup.net/ If you're ultimately not interested in a poly situation then he needs to accept it. If he can't accept it then you have a hard decision to make.


Posts: 118 | Registered: Jul 2008
jemimapd
Member
Member # 37895
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, October 28th (Monday)

He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire

I thought I had heard it all from my WH but this one had me spitting out my coffee.

Did he suggest a few concubines out in the shed as well?


Jemima Puddleduck is a trusting soul....
DD 1 Dec 2012; Divorced 11/13; 2 children
Me: BS (47) Him: WH (52) Her: 3 PA's
Ex bought a house, The Money Pit With Mold That Will Never Be Finished. He's living in the basement.

Posts: 726 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Just a bit worried that you're still giving him too much rope, by saying 'we can discuss it again if you change your mind'. Even if the affair stops, he's still the man who cheated on you and you'd be under no obligation AT ALL to take him back.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 859 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, October 28th (Monday)

The things they tell us and themselves just so they can live with themselves are ridiculous.

You mentioned money issues. He has a provider image crisis and goes straight for infidelity to soothe himself. Of course he wants to have her. He does not have to provide for her or share his earnings with her. She is free. No stress, no money, no bills, no problems.

This runs in the SI family.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1436 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Housefulloflove
Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, October 28th (Monday)

He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire
I thought I had heard it all from my WH but this one had me spitting out my coffee.
Did he suggest a few concubines out in the shed as well?

Not to T/J but it was things like this that had me convinced that he was literally going crazy until I found out about NPD and how far some will go to convince THEMSELVES that they are who they want others to believe them to be.

He would have told me that aliens abducted him and forced him to perform sex acts with OW if he thought I was willing to believe it and let him have his way.


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
forlornheart
Member
Member # 40726
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, October 28th (Monday)

So he wants an open marriage you stay together committed to your marriage but each of you has the option of going outside of the marriage for sex.

You said...no thank you but he's telling you he's going to do this whether you agree or not. Case closed.

I don't think I've ever heard of an open marriage working.

You're at a stand still here....I'd advise you to go directly to the courthouse, if you pass GO you collect $200!

I'm just don't see any wife that want's a committed marriage being able to cope with knowing your husband out having a little sex time with Jill, or was that Theresa, no....no....it's definitely Autumn! Yeah...the slutty blonde with no panties on!!

Don't put yourself through this, if he's going to do it anyway, file the paperwork for divorce. Please, please think this through! You are much too good for this.

I have to give him credit for at least being honest. Most men just do it on the down low.

Hugs!
Deb


Me: 48- BW
Him: 45-WH-chronic cheater, PA and EA
Current Her: Mid to late 30's fatassed, no necked, troglodyte
D Day: August 23, 2013
Separated: August 23, 2013


Posts: 52 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Michigan
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, October 28th (Monday)

My XH claimed he wanted an open marriage, but he only said that after he had started having an A. Like if we called it an open marriage then somehow he was not the bad guy.

Even IF you were interested in having an open marriage, my guess is your WH currently is not capable of the honesty involved and certainly is not deserving of your trust. Don't let him bully you into something you're not comfortable with.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49468 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
twokids
Member
Member # 23266
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, October 28th (Monday)

My WH used to say he didn't know if he was 'cut out' for monogamy. It was his ready made excuse for cheating. The reality is that he was too scared to leave for his OW, and too weak to give her up.

So instead he lied and took what he wanted from both me and the OW. He didn't care what it cost me or her.

So it's not a matter of 'want,' like your WH doesn't 'want' to be monogamous. That's what he may tell himself and you, but don't believe it. He doesn't have what it takes to be a man and love one woman the rest of his life. He is an immature, self centered child in a man's clothing.

Stay strong and protect yourself. He has shown you he will lie and cheat to get what he wants in the moment, no matter what the long term cost.


Me: BS, 56
Him: WH, 50
5+ DDAYS; 10+ OW
Two sons, 16 & 18
M 19 yrs - detaching to divorce
In-house Separation since 7/2012

Posts: 393 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: California
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

ugh... now it gets hard... he's downstairs in his room... I'm upstairs in mine. I didn't even get a chance to tell him I wanted him to sleep downstairs because he had already taken his pillows out. Not feeling quite so empowered right now. I like being with him... and like I said, when we are together and getting along, it is GREAT... BETTER THAN EVER.

Just that minor detail about the girlfriend on the side

Just a bit worried that you're still giving him too much rope, by saying 'we can discuss it again if you change your mind'. Even if the affair stops, he's still the man who cheated on you and you'd be under no obligation AT ALL to take him back.

That's a good point... was thinking I was kind of going with the 180 on that. Any thoughts on what I SHOULD say to him, when we finally do talk again?

But you all are right... I don't deserve this... I want my husband back, but he has told me he will never be the same guy he was... he says he has changed and he just doesn't believe in the old "rules" of marriage anymore.

F**K... this isn't easy, my friends. I'm so thankful you are all here... and thankful that I can get my feelings out on here instead of texting him while he's in the other room (like I usually do)

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 12:13 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Wow, who has he been talking to...or is the fog just really thick there

He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire

No wonder my wife had an affair. It was because I was monogamous! I nearly destroyed my family with my thoughtless monogamous actions!


All this time I thought it was because of her

Low Self Esteem
Alcoholism
Drug Addiction
Approval Seeking

Or, just assuming that he could possibly be wrong, could it be because you are attractive, 10 years younger than him, in the best shape of your life, and he doesn't think he is good enough to keep you, so he steps out first to lessen the blow of the FEAR of losing you. Then covers it all up after getting caught with lie after lie after lie and justifications that are so laughable that they are going to cause many of us to choke to death on our Halloween candy.

I don't think I've ever heard of an open marriage working.

All the open marriages that I've ever come across worked quite well. That is, the partners had sex with whomever they chose, they all ended in divorce, and the kids all ended up wondering if anyone really ever gave a shit about them and where they were going to spend the holidays. The worked well for the most selfish person in the mix, and for nobody else.

That is the reality of all open marriages that I've known about. I have nothing against polyamory, open marriages, etc, but in all cases that I have run across the problem has been exactly what you are facing, that is one partner decides they want a rule change. If my wife wanted an open marriage, I'd divorce her. Not to be mean, but to be clear where my priorities are. I have a lot more opportunities for sex than most people do, usually with younger women but with older educated women as well (unfortunately most of whom probably have a daddy complex), but there is no way that I'd engage in that with another woman, and then have my wife have to face that reality, and start wondering how she compared to someone else.

It is her, only her, and if she wants it to be otherwise it will be "not her". The kids will always know that they come first, and not wonder if another person's kids or another woman is a higher priority than they are.

Unfortunately, most wayward spouses do a lot of crazy justification when caught, even years later.

My wife lied about her affair for 6 months after confessing initially, coming 9 years after the affair, justified, accused, and lied about me to make herself look better (that was the hardest thing to take, that she went to a counselor's office and lied about me, in front of me, to someone who didn't know me, over my protestations of innocence, made me look like I was inattentive, treated her with disregard, didn't value her contribution to the family). Thank goodness she came clean, because we were on the verge of divorce because of the irreconcilable views and memories. Never mind the lies to me.

Eventually, some people break down and tell the truth.

Your husband doesn't sound like he's there yet...but he's awfully close to dday to be ready to pull his head out of his "fog".

Good luck.



BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
Thessalian
Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

But you all are right... I don't deserve this... I want my husband back, but he has told me he will never be the same guy he was... he says he has changed and he just doesn't believe in the old "rules" of marriage anymore.

Good for his dumb ass. He can go marry someone else. What a jerk he's being, I'm so sorry he's treating you this way!

Look, I am pro-polyamory and non-monogamy in principle (in other words, though I'm not in a poly marriage, I appreciate the idea and have had poly-ish relationships before). But that kind of relationship is based on HONESTY, and radical trust. You need a ton of communication to make that work between all three parties, and maybe even more vigilance about openness and honesty than you need in a 2-person relationship, because you're balancing multiple people's feelings. That's hard work even when all parties WANT to be in the relationship.

Moreover, you do not get to enter into a life-long agreement to be in a monogamous relationship, and then change your damn mind in the most cowardly way possible because you feel like it. Your WH does not get to change the rules of engagement halfway through the game without consulting you. That behavior is tantamount to divorce. Forcing your wife into a non-consensual polyamorous relationship isn't polyamory, it's cruel, selfish abuse.

If I had any advice, it would be: don't give into his insanity because you want to keep him. Real polyamorous partners would clout your WH over the head and tell him to stop giving them a bad name. What your WH is doing is not polyamory. What your WH is doing is using the word "polyamory" as an excuse to be a cake-eating piece of shit bully. If you care to fight with him about this, read some poly literature - no polyamorous literature condones his behavior. But frankly, I don't know that it would be worth the effort.

Polyamory, non-monogamy, monogamy, and everything in between: dishonesty isn't part of any functioning relationship, no matter what flavor that relationship may be. 180 the crap of him.

[This message edited by Thessalian at 1:07 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 163 | Registered: Sep 2013
PolyGal
Member
Member # 20396
Default  Posted: 1:29 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Regarding the open marriage thing "working" by basically failing (i.e. working for the most selfish person in the group), the same thing could be said about monogamous marriages. With all the cheating and affairs that don't attempt to call themselves poly this should be a clue. The reality is that *relationships* can fail, regardless of how they are configured. Relationship partners can be good or bad, regardless of how many of them there are. The reality is that "cheating" is defined not by going outside a monogamous situation, but by breaking boundaries (and worse to lie about it or otherwise keep it secret), and that boundary happens to be emotional and/or sexual fidelity for mono people.

Additionally, success or failure of a relationship isn't dictated by whether or not it lasts forever. I have exes with whom I still friends, ended on good terms because we grew apart or for other reasons that didn't involve cheating or drama, and even though those relationships ended I don't consider them unsuccessful. That said, they were secondary relationships, not marriages. But I do know a lot of people who have had successful open/poly relationships, including married people.

Look, let's not hijack a thread by judging the relationship styles of other people. I'm coming back to this thread perhaps to offer a poly perspective, and also to reassure the OP that what her WH is doing is not poly. But poly is only one aspect of this. All of us are here because our relationships are or have been broken somehow by lies and bullshit, regardless of how our relationships are configured.

For a concise and well organized discussion on poly see http://www.morethantwo.com/polyamory.html (probably a better reference than the previous one, which is more of a blog advertising a book).

Anyway I agree that this guy is giving real poly a bad name, and I agree he needs to get hit with a clue x 4. While I agree with him in the sense that I know what it is like to truly love more than one person, and to not feel diminished love for my existing partners when I take a new partner, the way that he has gone about it is not appropriate, and is cheating. And if anyone took the time to read about poly they would see this. Perhaps the OP could share this resource with him *if* she's willing to consider R and willing to consider changing the dynamic. But I agree, OP, if this is not something that you think would be good for you, definitely don't go for it. You are not obligated to accept this. And even if you do decide to dip your toes in poly, you don't have to accept his AP. But if you read through the information in that link, it can help with thinking about what healthy poly generally looks like, and where your WH is going wrong.

(clarification - by OP I mean "original poster" not "other person" in this context)

[This message edited by PolyGal at 1:31 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 118 | Registered: Jul 2008
summerain
Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 2:01 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

My only real response is musicians. The ones who 'don't make it' and still try to (even if he says he's not) always seem to have a lot of problems. I'm assuming he doesn't actually work in the music industry? Because they talk

I'm around a lot of them. It's ridiculous. Is this a covers band for upscale events or is this covers in a pub or even worse is it originals?

TBH. I would never let my husband have a woman in his band. NEVER. Those recording sessions (if the band is earning enough), the rehearsals?

Fuck that.

He needs to be out of that band. And he needs to be out of your life if he doesn't end it straight away.

Turn up to one of their gigs and confront the slut. INFRONT of the rest of the band.

Easiest way to split them all up.
I mean do they have industry connections (i.e someone that could give him a job tutoring, lecturing etc)? If not I seriously can't see one reason for them to be together.

Feel free to PM me the name of the band and I'll have a look at them.

By the way the 'no longer want to be monogamous' is just selfishness and diversion tactics. If he truly didn't want to be monogamous i.e thought this out before all of this he would of followed (if he has a brain) polygirl's recommendations to begin with.

At the end of the day if his values don't align yours then that's a dealbreaker. I don't feel neither here or there about poly relationships just that it does not align with my values at all. However different strokes for different folks, if you both had the same values then why not? But you don't and you really can't convince yourself that you can, it's ingrained.


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
jemimapd
Member
Member # 37895
Default  Posted: 2:42 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Sue, you ementioned in your first post that you had lost every penny to your name. And that was a giant red flag to me. Because my husband's infidelity went hand in hand with a lot of financial problems caused by him, also. I don't know your circumstances and whether this is the same for you. But I do know that my WH has been semi-detached in our marriage in every aspect. He has never committed himself to doing the hard things it would take to provide for us. He regularly drops the ball and leaves me to pick it up. Now I'm seeing that the sexual infidelity was just one aspect of a wider pattern of selfishness within the marriage.


Jemima Puddleduck is a trusting soul....
DD 1 Dec 2012; Divorced 11/13; 2 children
Me: BS (47) Him: WH (52) Her: 3 PA's
Ex bought a house, The Money Pit With Mold That Will Never Be Finished. He's living in the basement.

Posts: 726 | Registered: Dec 2012
shatter-ed
Member
Member # 27159
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

By the way the 'no longer want to be monogamous' is just selfishness and diversion tactics. If he truly didn't want to be monogamous i.e thought this out before all of this he would of followed (if he has a brain) polygirl's recommendations to begin with.

At the end of the day if his values don't align yours then that's a dealbreaker.

None of our while WS wanted to be monogamous while in their A for whatever reason! Have his values really changed or is he just still in a very thick fog?


BS (me)
WH
3 amazing kids.
R - trying.
DDay - 06/11/09 MOW desperate fugly neighbor

Posts: 599 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: uk
Gemini71
Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

My heart goes out to you Sue (I'm a Sue too.) I understand that you love your WH and get along with him. I get along great with my STBXH and love him dearly.

Sometimes you can love someone, but not be able to be with them. Guard your heart the best you can. My STBX is definitely SA. I just cannot be M to him right now. He has a lot of work to do on himself and his addiction. Even if he was 'cured' tomorrow, I still don't know if I could ever R with him. There is too much hurt between us.

You are the only one who can decide what you are willing to put up with, but sometimes you just have to let a WH go.

You didn't create this situation. You can't fix it. You can only take care of yourself.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1641 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Welcome, Sue - Sorry a bit late to this thread. But I do have some thoughts to share with you.

1. You H is using the wanting an open relationship theme to make it ok for what he is choosing to do. He is still not following the standard rules of an open relationship, and that is being completely open and honest with each other. This relationship with OW is built on lies and bullshit. I would eat my hat if you did find someone else and he would be OK with it. Of course he wants you to agree to it, because he KNOWS you well enough to know that is not something you would be interested in doing.

2. If you choose to try to make this thing work, then you need to step up to the plate, and play some REAL Hard ball. He is living in unicorns farting raindows ville right now, and that shit needs to end.
You need to lay down the rules and the law or R. He either chooses to follow them, or he leaves, and goes back to living in Moms basement because YOU didn't choose this. HE did. YOU deserve the respect of any wife, and if he cant give it on his own, then you will have to demand it, or show him the door.
NO ONE here ever NICED their relationship back to healthy. Most of us have tried on some level, but figured out it didn't work, and at some point dug through the closet, and found those 6" red leather, stiletto, thigh high Bitch Boots, and slipped those suckers on and demanded the respect we deserved, and also laid down the rules of R. If they weren't willing to play that was ok too.

We get that you love him, but think what you are teaching your kids, that it's ok to disrepect your spouse, and make them sick and a doormat? NO that is not healthy, and will only perpetuate the cycle of unhealthy M's. They are much better off seeing a Mom who demands the respect you deserve.

Doing the 180 is a great way for you to find yourself, and get strong again. It also will let you gain some perspective on things. You know in your heart this is all kinds of wrong and f'd up, but you also love this man. However if he was a drug addict and said, I still love you and want to stay with you, but I'm going to shoot this heroin every day, and I don't care what you think. would you tolerate it? NO, would you still love him? Sure, but you would also protect yourself and your family.

Keep posting, keep reading.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8142 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I can continue to just be ok with what he's doing and keep our marriage together, or we can split and be in separate bedrooms in the same house (we have finally gotten out of my step-mom's house, but can't afford two places)

I'm at work (shh! lol) and could only skim the 3 pages of posts, but I'm kind of curious - why can't lover boy stay at his OW's place?

Is there a reason she can't take him in? Does she have a boyfriend or significant other that may not be of the same "no more monogamy!" mindset that your husband has suddenly decreed?

Personally, I'd make my own new rule and force it down HIS throat - marriage in separate residences.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1700 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

lauren123...

My only real response is musicians. The ones who 'don't make it' and still try to (even if he says he's not) always seem to have a lot of problems. I'm assuming he doesn't actually work in the music industry? Because they talk

I'm around a lot of them. It's ridiculous. Is this a covers band for upscale events or is this covers in a pub or even worse is it originals?

TBH. I would never let my husband have a woman in his band. NEVER. Those recording sessions (if the band is earning enough), the rehearsals?

Fuck that.

He needs to be out of that band. And he needs to be out of your life if he doesn't end it straight away.

Turn up to one of their gigs and confront the slut. INFRONT of the rest of the band.

Easiest way to split them all up.
I mean do they have industry connections (i.e someone that could give him a job tutoring, lecturing etc)? If not I seriously can't see one reason for them to be together.

Feel free to PM me the name of the band and I'll have a look at them.

That's a lot of assumptions. He's been a career musician for 30 years... has played with some of the best musicians in the world. He freelances... is not in a band with the OW... they have a duo and write together.

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 11:30 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I'm at work (shh! lol) and could only skim the 3 pages of posts, but I'm kind of curious - why can't lover boy stay at his OW's place?

Is there a reason she can't take him in? Does she have a boyfriend or significant other that may not be of the same "no more monogamy!" mindset that your husband has suddenly decreed?

Personally, I'd make my own new rule and force it down HIS throat - marriage in separate residences.

Thanks for piping in while at work And yes, that's a valid question. He says he will not live apart from the kids and doesn't want to live with her... he wants to live with me. Also, she lives over an hour away (thank God). They actually don't see each other all that much, but the EA is continuing in full force.

He's been telling me that it's becoming more about the music (they write together as well) and less about the sex. I'm finally waking up and realizing that's more bullshit.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

standinghere...

Wow, who has he been talking to...or is the fog just really thick there

"He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire"

For the record, my WH did not say this (someone else commented that their XH had said that).

My husband has definitely said lots of crazy stuff, but that's not something he'd say

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 11:29 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

shatter-ed...

None of our while WS wanted to be monogamous while in their A for whatever reason! Have his values really changed or is he just still in a very thick fog?

I truly hope it's just a thick fog. But, he keeps telling me that he has never believed in monogamy, that he did it only because it's what I needed and that he has made the decision for HIM that that he's no longer going to live by societies rules. He also says it's not about HER (OW), and that if it's not her, it will be someone else.

Nice eh?


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

PolyGal...

Anyway I agree that this guy is giving real poly a bad name, and I agree he needs to get hit with a clue x 4. While I agree with him in the sense that I know what it is like to truly love more than one person, and to not feel diminished love for my existing partners when I take a new partner, the way that he has gone about it is not appropriate, and is cheating. And if anyone took the time to read about poly they would see this. Perhaps the OP could share this resource with him *if* she's willing to consider R and willing to consider changing the dynamic. But I agree, OP, if this is not something that you think would be good for you, definitely don't go for it. You are not obligated to accept this. And even if you do decide to dip your toes in poly, you don't have to accept his AP. But if you read through the information in that link, it can help with thinking about what healthy poly generally looks like, and where your WH is going wrong.

Thank you for the great insight about poly. I'm quite certain it's not for me... the only reason I would (have been?) agreeing to it is because I don't want to be apart from my husband. If it's truly what he wants, I can't see it working... it's just too painful (especially the way he has gone about it).


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

tushnurse...

That's awesome advice... thank you so much for taking the time to share it with me


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

he keeps telling me that he has never believed in monogamy


Really? So for 18 years, and through 3 kids, he never mentioned this lifelong belief? WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. Honestly, how do these people say such things with a straight face?

Sue, screw him. Seriously, screw him. You donít need the bullshit heís trying to feed you, and thatís what this is. Never believed in monogamy. Right, sure thing. Tell me you donít believe that, and tell me you told him to take his lifelong Ďbeliefí and shove it up his ass!

So he slept in the other room by choice. Ooooooo, how dramatic. He did it to show you that heís willing to push this. I say you push him right out the damned door. You have 3 kids with him. You can afford where you live because heíll still be paying it Ė he just wonít be there.

I think itís time you show him what his Ďfun, sex filled lifeí is really going to be Ė him broke paying your bills while you move on and find REAL love from a REAL man. He isnít going to be the carefree guy that comes and goes as he pleases and doesnít keep his word and does whatever he wants. Heíll be just like every other person that cheats and thinks there is a better life outside Ė broke, missing his family, and wondering why he couldnít pull his head out of his ass.

He wants to show you what sleeping alone will be like, and what your life will be like if you donít agree to his emotional blackmail? Fine. Show him what being a part-time dad without two nickels to rub together feels like, and be sure to let him know that you will, WHEN (not if, when) you meet the right man, be bringing your new love home with you.

Donít let him think that his life will be grand while yours is filled with pain if you donít allow him to be the pig he desperately wants to be. It wonít. Heís seen it a million times, and he, like the rest, thinks his life will be different. It wonít. Heíll be viewed as that screw up that screwed around and was shown the door, and people will ask why you didnít do that sooner, and you will ask yourself that.

You deserve better. You can get better. Make sure you are setting yourself up for your own happiness and the happiness of your children. He doesnít need to live there to be responsible for the bills, as his children are there. If his presence is too painful, the get rid of him.

Being home with your family should make you happy. Heís ruining that. Get rid of him.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1876 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

painfulpast...

He did actually say to me once, while we were dating, that he didn't believe in monogamy... that it wasn't "natural". It stung at the time, but I didn't really think much of it (silly me). So, part of me feels like I was used to have babies, and now he's going to live the life he's always believed he wanted.

I totally get everything you're saying. The problem is... I AM THE MAIN EARNER. He has never been. I have basically supported us for the entire 18 years.

And right now, we're both rebuilding our careers after a big crash a couple years ago. I am very close to things taking off again, so I know that the finances will turn around for me, but at this point, our combined income is barely enough for our one home. If (when) I kick him out, he will basically be living in poverty on the cash that he makes. I don't really want this for my kids' dad, but I get that him being here is totally WRONG.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

((((Sue)))))
I have been the main bread winner in our marriage also..My WH is blatantly un remorseful..

He is also unemployed without pension and savings.. It is his greed and disregard for me that will make D nasty, painful and possibly ruin me financially, as he plans to go after my pension when we D if I don't have anything to offer him that is better..

With that being said I still plan to D him but I am biding my time..There will come a point in time very soon that WH will have to go back to work..

I am living off of full retirement pension , I am unable to work at this time due to health reasons..WH seems to be living off of unemployment and his unemployment payout monthly is pretty much the same as my monthly pension..

Anyway, even if I physically could, I would still be reluctant to go back to work in a full time job before any divorce is final because I don't want the income I can make at what I am trained to do to be factored in a divorce settlement...

A long time ago, when I realized that my WH lacked the remorse it took to rebuild, I took measures to separate our finances in the best way that I could..
I emptied out our joint savings of 1/2 of the money..

I started my own checking/savings and all of my paychecks (now pension checks) go there..I have my own credit/credit cards..None of the joint credit cards were ever in my name as the primary person that the bill gets sent to...

So my advice would be to protect yourself way ahead of time so that you see a way out of your situation and M should your WH not wake up and come out of the fog that he is in..

Try to protect yourself from the impact that leaving an unemployed or under employed spouse would have on your finances as the main wage earner..

When or if you file for D don't be surprised if your WH suddenly turns mean or greedy..

Good to be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best..

Sending you strength..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:05 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1169 | Registered: Nov 2011
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I think you should mysteriously disappear a few evenings a week. Say you need some time and can he look after the kids? Then disappear, get home late. Drive him nuts. See how he likes being at the receiving end.

I'm evil that way.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1055 | Registered: Aug 2012
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I think you should mysteriously disappear a few evenings a week. Say you need some time and can he look after the kids? Then disappear, get home late. Drive him nuts. See how he likes being at the receiving end.

^^^This

It's amazing how fast they change their tune when they realize they aren't the only one who can stop being monogamous.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13718 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

He's been telling me that it's becoming more about the music (they write together as well) and less about the sex.

With his actions heĎs telling you that the relationship you two have is more about convenience and less about respect and marriage.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5511 | Registered: Sep 2005
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I get that him being here is totally WRONG.

It's only wrong if you don't want him there. This is your life and you need to live it how you want.

If he only has $20 to his name, then it's your $20. I know you don't want that for your kids' dad, but right now, he's thinking about himself enough for the both of you. You only need to worry about yourself and your kids. Besides, he's probably like most, and when the real reality of what he's doing sinks in via no home life, broke as can be, and living a miserable existence, his fairy Tale will end and heíll see through the fog.

And saying it once, instead of it being a real belief about relationships? Not really something Iíd consider. Iíve made comments about having multiple spouses before. I donít really want that, and I canít claim that, in 18 years, I really meant it, and my H should have known. Weíve ALL said off the wall things in some strange state of mind.

If he really thought monogamy wasnít Ďnaturalí or he didnít believe in it, he certainly would have said more by now. Thatís a major aspect of ones self. And he definitely should have brought this up when you were first discussing marriage, not after he finds a girlfriend (or second mommy).


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1876 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I think you should mysteriously disappear a few evenings a week. Say you need some time and can he look after the kids? Then disappear, get home late. Drive him nuts. See how he likes being at the receiving end.

Oh geez, I hate to admit how much I like this idea. We have recently moved to a small town where I don't know very many people, so not sure who I'd go out with... hmmm... maybe I should take up a seat at the bar... in my skinny jeans and f**k me boots he he he


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
UpInTheAirNow
Member
Member # 37777
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Please go see a lawyer. Protect yourself and your children. Find out what your rights are. Serve him with divorce papers. Then call his parents and tell them why you kicked him out. You dont have to go through with it but it might snap him out of his fog. Also get STD tested.
It's very hard to think clearly while being betrayed. We know all too well.


ME 44
WW 50
DDay 6/13/12
Married 17 years, together 27 yrs.
Its a deal breaker!

Posts: 103 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: NY
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

It's only wrong if you don't want him there. This is your life and you need to live it how you want.

You're right... and honestly, I need his help around the house and with the kids right now (so I can work at ROCKING my business, which will then give me options).

I've had an AWESOME 24hrs... had a total breakdown yesterday, bawled my head off, he called me needy... THEN... I found this forum, you amazing people and the 180. We have hardly spoken since... we both work at home and have been here all day, and usually by now I would've tried to talk with him and it would've gotten ugly. Instead, I woke up and was happy around the kids, completely pleasant around him and have made NO attempts to have contact with him (the part about following him around the house really got me... I was totally doing that). I feel like a whole new me. And I realize it's only 24hrs, and it's an emotional roller-coaster, but I am going to do everything in my power to stick to that 180. Maybe he'll come out of his fog, maybe he won't, but I will keep my dignity in tact.

And, I'm thinking about a mysterious night out tonight... maybe I'll just drive and park somewhere for a few hours, but nevertheless, I'm going to disappear for a bit.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
hard_yards
Member
Member # 23549
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Sue, honey, this is just never going to work out well for you.

To date, everything is about him, what he wants, what he doesn't...

He is not living in some off-screen version of Big Love, he's a middle aged guy having some sort of epiphany that life is passing him by.

We are probably all guilty of having those thoughts at some stage, the difference is whether you act on them or not.

He chose to.

The collateral damage is you, your kids, your marriage, your security, your happiness.

And right now he doesn't care.

He's already told you that if it's not this OW, it will be another, that this is what he needs, what he wants. Please believe, if it was you with OM, he wouldn't be telling you to go ahead.

Imagine yourself in the future, sitting at home alone, wondering where he is and who he's with.... is this the life you want?

Because that's what he's offering, that's the best he can do for his wife and family, leave them repeatedly for another... mindless of the ramifications.

His sense of self-entitlement is unbelievable.

I'll sound cynical (and yes, I am, this stuff will do that to you...), Most people are incapable of true change, it takes exceptional events and or exceptional character to really change, and it's usually after realization of what you might loose.

In his mind, he's not loosing anything, he's gaining.... he still wants his life, wife and family and oh yes, he wants a girlfriend on the side.

And he expects you to be okay with that.

He's not likely to change, you can try and wait him out but at what cost?

So he slept in another bedroom? good, I'd follow that up by putting his clothes etc in there too....

Sue, show him the consequences of his choices, contact a lawyer, separate out your finances, 180 him to hell and back...

And start taking control of this terrible situation you find yourself in.

This ends when you say it does.

Hugs, lots of hugs, be strong Sue, you need to take control of this.



I feel like I'm in a parallel universe... everything looks the same... but something's just not right...

Posts: 1225 | Registered: Apr 2009
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

@hard_yards Thank you for the great advice. This forum has made me realize I DO deserve more and I wish I hadn't given in to his ridiculous expectations for the last four months.

Divorce papers would freak the shit out of him. hmmmm.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Sue,

This is no different, really, than a WS who insists that he/she should get to be friends with the AP after having an affair. Lay down your boundaries and be prepared to stick to your consequences. One of two things will happen, he will realize what he's about to lose or he will leave. Either way, you aren't living with constant turmoil and angst anymore.

When my husband had his first affair, I didn't really enforce boundaries- each time letting him slide the line a little further out. I'm convinced that's why I went through a second Dday. When he argued for "friendship" after the second dday, I told him I was no longer willing to tolerate his "friendships" with the opposite sex since he has proven he has terrible boundaries. Oh, he whined and cried that I was "trying to pick his friends" for him. I answered quite seriously "No, I'm not choosing your friends. I'm giving you the boundaries for what I'm willing to tolerate to stay in this marriage with you. You can have all the female friends you want. You just can't have them and also stay married to me. You decide which is more important to you." I then left. When I came back, he was singing a different tune.

He knows without a doubt that I mean business. One violation of that agreement and I'm done. One more lie comes out and I'm done. He used up all his chances. But I really wish I had put my foot down in the same way the first time.

You've been married 18 years. I was at 17 years the first time. Don't take any crap from him, seriously. You know what you deserve. You know what your kids deserve. He's gotten to play around with his music and let you carry the load for 18 years and he has the balls to cheat? Either he gets his shit together or kick him to the curb. I wouldn't be giving him another four months to figure it out either. I'm thinking he better have the right answer by say midnight tonight...


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4029 | Registered: Sep 2005
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Thanks Tearsoflove...

I'd like to ask you (and everyone here) a question... do you think I should give him an ultimatum right now? Or should I continue with the 180. Because right now the 180 feels like it's working... he's probably totally shocked right now that I've made no effort whatsoever to even speak to him today. I'm not sure it's the right time yet for an ultimatum.

Thoughts?


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

The 180 is for you, not him. The 180 is so that you can gather your strength and keep your sanity. It's what you do with an unremorseful spouse who is not willing to do anything you need. The 180 is not something you do to get what you want from him. The 180 is what you do when you aren't getting what you want from him.

I'd be telling him what I would require to work on it now and I'd let him know what the consequences of not being willing to do what you need are and then follow through (If that means filing for divorce, you go see a lawyer.). Before you give him any ultimatums, sit down and seriously think about what you want out of your marriage and what you are going to do if you don't get it. When you know for sure what you want, then you talk to him. And if he doesn't get it and pull his head out of his ass, you keep doing the 180 while you follow through on the consequences you decided upon.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 5:40 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4029 | Registered: Sep 2005
hard_yards
Member
Member # 23549
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I'd wait for him to initiate a conversation about it, remember, the 180 is for you, to get stronger, to detach from the crazy-making...

Then, I'd clearly and concisely lay out my requirements - don't get into any conversation or deflection from him - tell him there's nothing to discuss if he tries, and then straight back to the 180.

It's only been a matter of hours Sue, stick with it.



I feel like I'm in a parallel universe... everything looks the same... but something's just not right...

Posts: 1225 | Registered: Apr 2009
whattheh
Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

If you haven't done so yet you may want to explore legalrights and options. For example some states allow faithful spouse to sue the OP for alienation of affection but only worth it if the OW has assets. In other states adultery is still a crime.

He is exposing you and possibly kids to disease with his cheating. For example hepatitis is transmitted by close physical contact as is oral herpes


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 529 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I need his help around the house and with the kids right now (so I can work at ROCKING my business, which will then give me options

If you choose to divorce, he will still (theoretically) be responsible for parenting 50% of the time!

You can negotiate many things, monogamy doesn't have to be one of them.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

If you choose to divorce, he will still (theoretically) be responsible for parenting 50% of the time!

yes, for sure.. and I don't have any concerns about that... he has been an amazing dad and I know he will continue to be.

BUT, I don't have the option to live apart from him right now as we don't have the finances for that unfortunately.


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I AM THE MAIN EARNER. He has never been. I have basically supported us for the entire 18 years.

BUT, I don't have the option to live apart from him right now as we don't have the finances for that unfortunately.

Gently, these 2 statements don't add up.

As the primary wage earner, YOU have more financial resources, and more POWER (bargaining power)!

Your wayward/polyamorist is the person who simply cannot support his dream lifestyle. That's what it is. A dream. Play music and fuck many women.

YOU have choices here!! Never forget that!


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)

BUT, I don't have the option to live apart from him right now as we don't have the finances for that unfortunately.

You have said this before, and we've told you that he would still be responsible for paying his share because of the kids. You CAN do this, but deep inside you don't want to. That's your choice, but please, don't lie to yourself right now. He's done enough of that. You need to be very clear with yourself what you will and will not accept, and what you do and do not want.

Consequences - it's been said here before, he is losing nothing. So, why should he stop? He still has his family, his home, his wife, everything, and he has a girlfriend. So what will stop him?

Consequences. He needs to see real loses for his actions. Real consequences. He's so selfish right now, your pain means nothing. And yet you're concerned for him. Why?

A child that behaves poorly is told to stop. He doesn't. He is told to stop again. He doesn't. He is told to stop again. He begins to see that this is the only consequence he will face, and doesn't stop. He is told to stop again. He just laughs and keeps doing it. He is told to stop again. No reaction at all. He is told once more, and again, no reaction. He is taken from his current place, sent to his room, told to stay there until he learns to listen, and begins to cry. Why? Because he's been affected.

Without consequences, the behavior WILL NOT STOP. You need to understand this. You need to understand that he will only sink deeper, and see you as weaker and weaker in the process for accepting this behavior. He called you needy. Do you see? He is devaluing you, and that will cause him to care less about hurting or disrespecting you. He's already seeing you as pathetic. Don't let that continue.

Please, stand up for yourself and your children. Stand up for your family be getting rid of the poison within it.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1876 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Again I would like to reinforce that 180 is for you. To help you be strong, and to help you gain perspective, and it's working. You already feel less stressed, and more centered.

If you want to give him an ultimatum that he respect the boundaries of his vows then by all means do it, BUT be prepared to carry through on consequences, meaning if you tell he if he doesn't stop you will be forced to D, then be prepared to D, or at least file.

You feel that financially you are stuck, however you are the breadwinner....This seems contradictory to me. Please even if you have ZERO intention of D, go see an attorney, and find out how a D would go down, and how things will be split, and what your rights are.

Many women end up staying in a bad situation because they feel they can't afford to D, and that may not be true for them or for you. If you are no longer supporting him, perhaps he will be forced to get a full time job with benefits to take care of himself. It's not your responsiblity to support and care for him, if he is abusing you, and your M.

If this was your daughter or best friend in this situation what would you tell her to do?


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8142 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)

To explain the money situation a little more clearly...

I am an entrepreneur, WH is a musician. We've had huge ups and huge downs over the years. That is the nature of both of our businesses.

At this point, we have enough coming in to cover the next month, but no guarantees of what's coming in the following month.

That's hard for people with 9-5 jobs to understand, but it's part of being an entrepreneur and I'm OK with that. I would not trade what I do for a regular job ever, and I know I will always get through the down times.

I am doing the 180... FOR ME. I'm detaching, and it's working. We are in separate bedrooms and able to stay pretty far away from each other. I read the 180 over and over through the day... I am big on personal growth and know the power of re-training my brain and that's what the 180 is doing.

So, while it may look to some that I need to get him out of here right now, or file for D, I am ok with this for now and expect that within a few months I will have enough money coming in to make other options.

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 12:10 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

You need to be a priority, not an option.

And I don't think you are ready for ultimatums yet. You need to get your ducks in a row.

[This message edited by k9lover1 at 12:38 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8094 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Sue

I am also a business owner I live off my commissions only. Knowing that this makes me nervous I have switched carriers still staying a business owner but different profession. So if I ever feel the need EVER I am not stuck. I will have 2 professions and I won't have to support him because he makes the $$$.
It is hard when you work 12 hour days and damn no money this month.. I get that. Oh how I get that. But you will be more productive once his cheating disrespectful cake eating ass is out of your HOUSE! Trust me.. I have seen it on here many many times.
Do not delay make a lawyer appointment go see what your options are. He has to work he has to pay for his kids 50/50.
What if this was your daughter? You would tell her the same thing you would pack his bags for him!
Go see a lawyer find out what your options are take that home to him. Tell him you have seen a lawyer you are not willing to live any other way then in a monogamous relationship. If he tells you he doesn't want that then tell him you are filing. Sit down and write out what he gets out of the house etc. Some states you can file for $150 and be done in 2 months! Think you can get him to agree now maybe on things he won't in 6 months?
Get your ducks in a row..
If you have to wait till after tax time I get that too! Again I am a business owner and things are different with us and our mindset..
Sooo come to us for support.
Take what you need for your daily survival.. We all get needing someone to talk to. You can not talk to him.
That being said who are you going to talk to in the real world?? Join some clubs not strip clubs haha... Be active in kids school be the best YOU he ever saw slamming that door in his face!! All of us are going to love watching you get stronger till he is gone or gets his ass straight!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3186 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Secrets Kept
Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Painfulpast.....OMG..that post is just great. Love the wording!!!

So yeah, I agree with what everyone said. Begin the 180 NOW, you deserve better!


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
BH-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 207 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

So, WH has gone to pick up our son's Halloween costume, an hour away and in the town OW lives in. I have a feeling that he's going to meet her on her lunch break... just a hunch, you know... It's 11am here and he just left.

I did stick to the 180 though and didn't ask him when he'll be home (which I have always done up until now). We shall see if he makes it back in 2 hours...

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 1:09 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

I can understand what you mean by not being financially ready to D or separate YET..
In some states, like mine, the D laws protect the stay at home or unemployed spouse..It doesn't seem to matter if he or she was the cheater that spoiled the M..He or she gets to make a claim for alimony or spousal support from the bread winner spouse....This unemployed spouse( often the wayward) also gets to make a claim for 1/2 of our pension, marital assets, etc..That can be a problem going forward in living one's own day to day life during/after D if the divorcing breadwinner spouse is somewhat disadvantaged financially and still has to carry the weight of the nonworking spouse who won't or is unable to carry their own weight financially..
Not meant to be discouraging about the decision to D, but to reemphasize that it takes, time, planning..It is a good idea to line ones ducks up first..

If you guys decide to R and not D a post nup agreement to provide for you and your kiddos isn't a bad idea...

In the meantime the 180 is excellent for keeping your sanity until your WH pulls his head out of his but and gets real with himself and you and does the work of R or you decide to D..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 4:04 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1169 | Registered: Nov 2011
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

I have a feeling that he's going to meet her on her lunch break... just a hunch, you know...

Gently...

He's "allowed" to meet her for lunch, or take her to bed. He's told you he has no intention of being monogamous.

There have been no consequences for him reneging on his marriage vows.

He's rewriting the rules ...

I am big on personal growth and know the power of re-training my brain and that's what the 180 is doing.
You've crossed over into negative reinforcement if "biting your tongue" is your only response to polygamy.

ETA: Positive reinforcement for him and his behavior. Negative reinforcement for your brain.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 3:43 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Even if you feel that you can't leave WH physically, you can leave him in mind and spirit ..

Here is what leaving my WH ( in mind-spirit) looks like for me until I can leave him physically..

I live in the same house with him( for the time being), but I don't cook or do laundry for WH.. We sleep in separate bedrooms..No sex between us...All of our finances are separate..I come and go and do as I please...When were at home at the same time, we lounge about in separate rooms..

I am not doing these things just temporarily, until WH gets his head out of his butt..This is how I survive in a long term bad situation until I can get out and into a place of my own..It is too late for WH and I to R at this point, I wouldn't want WH back..

Once I realized WH was un remorseful his wants and needs blew off of my radar, they weren't of my concern any more...

I may still be physically in the same house as WH but the lady that was once my WH's wife left my body and mind a while back..."So close but oh, so far away"....

If your WH thrives off of your detachment from him, that will give you some important answers as to where he is at mentally in regards to how he values your M..
Just saying......

[This message edited by doggiediva at 4:08 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1169 | Registered: Nov 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Sue, I just read this whole thread. I totally get it, and from my perspective father down the road, I remember where you are and how your thinking makes sense to you now. Everyone here has your best interest and has been down a similar path, they are just trying to tell you what's coming.

I just want to add this. You do need to see a lawyer ASAP, regardless of what you think right now. BECAUSE you are the primary earner, you are more at risk. Who's to say your WH won't decide to file and leave first? Sue you for alimony and child support so he CAN go live elsewhere and sleep with other women on your dime? I am surprised that the many here who have had that experience haven't mentioned this yet. You NEED to protect yourself.

I totally agree you need to get your ducks in a row before any ultimatums or such, but YOU also need to be prepared for him to turn the tables on you.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jun 2011
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

I agree. Depending on where you live you could get totally screwed when he goes to file. If you earn more it won't matter if he is the cheater. Sadly. You will have to pony up and watch him take your money along with other women.

Get to an attorney ASAP to find out your rites.


Posts: 5630 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Simple
Member
Member # 18814
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

He claims that allowing him to do what he needs to do is actually GOOD for our marriage.

My FWS actually said the same thing. He was in numerous EAs, PAs in 11 years we've been together. He even told me I should have a lover myself that I pick and that he'll watch me have sex with him cause that will get him off too... He was way in the fog and in denial of his actions. My FWS was a better person now and could not believe he even thought that way now and was very happy that I gave him another chance but at the same time, truly hard-line imposed boundaries for him to follow.

You said you're the main earner. How would it feel to take half of what you've earned towards any bastards he would conceive with the other women? I am the main earner in my family too. NO WAY IN HELL would I let a bastard and OW take MY HARD EARNED money that's meant for my family, specifically my kids. I would happily divorce my remorseful FWS if there were any bastard that shows up asking him for money, and I will sue for him for money too. FWS knows this and thankfully he knows for sure not one of his multiple PAs got pregnant, one pretended to be thinking HE was earning the large money cause he pretended he was the one earning that cash to her.

Hope this gives you some perspective. You're not the type that's ok for an open marriage. Not with what we see you've written.

Hugs your way.


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

I don't even think it matters who files first, that is what lawyers have told me..

I don't have little kids to worry about thank God, mine are grown and on their own..

I think it pays to take time , get advice and prepared to take the hit in finances in the case D occurs while you are the main wage earner..

In my case I am waiting for my WH to get a full time job before I file, almost any full time job he would work would pay more than what I get monthly in pension income..His unemployment benefits should be running out soon...



Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1169 | Registered: Nov 2011
sueonthemove
New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Gently...

He's "allowed" to meet her for lunch, or take her to bed. He's told you he has no intention of being monogamous.
There have been no consequences for him reneging on his marriage vows.
He's rewriting the rules ...

True, but it's still nice to know that although he had a really easy opportunity to see her today (they can't see each other much... she's an hour away and we only have one car), he chose not to.

You've crossed over into negative reinforcement if "biting your tongue" is your only response to polygamy.
ETA: Positive reinforcement for him and his behavior. Negative reinforcement for your brain.

I'm not "biting my tongue" anymore. I'm doing the 180 and detaching myself from him and living my life for me.

Here is what leaving my WH ( in mind-spirit) looks like for me until I can leave him physically..

I live in the same house with him( for the time being), but I don't cook or do laundry for WH.. We sleep in separate bedrooms..No sex between us...All of our finances are separate..I come and go and do as I please...When were at home at the same time, we lounge about in separate rooms..

That's pretty much what it's like for us right now (as of a couple days ago when I started the 180) and I'm ok with it.

My FWS actually said the same thing. He was in numerous EAs, PAs in 11 years we've been together. He even told me I should have a lover myself that I pick and that he'll watch me have sex with him cause that will get him off too... He was way in the fog and in denial of his actions. My FWS was a better person now and could not believe he even thought that way now and was very happy that I gave him another chance but at the same time, truly hard-line imposed boundaries for him to follow.

That's encouraging. I'm still not ready to rule out R with WH, but in the meantime I am detaching without expectations.

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 10:13 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, October 31st (Thursday)

For a time, the xPervert wanted both OW and me, but I couldn't do it. OW can and is staying in an "open relationship" with him...but I couldn't face it.

And I also understand that a person can still be cheated on in these relationships, or that it doesn't STOP cheating from happening-it seems to primarily broaden the boundaries for the people in them?

I have a friend whose husband recently told her just about the same thing-he did not say the word "monogamous" -but recently told her they were done with physical things and to go find someone she could be with "that way", for he LHBWNILWH. To me it sounds fishy but she is in the beginning of hearing it and wishing she wasn't.

He's a traveling person for his job, so right there was a big red flag...

Anyway...I'm sorry for your struggle and glad that you're questioning your values. Just because one person's values change, doesn't mean we all have to. Part of the reason I filed was to show what I stood for, even if it's standing alone.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 11:55 AM, October 31st (Thursday)]


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2197 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, October 31st (Thursday)

If you wonít/canít ask him to leave, you should set the ground rules so he knows what to expect. Write down the monthly bills, and what his half of that is, and make him pay it. You may not be able to afford being on your own, but you should NOT be paying for anything that is his, and half the rent is his. Also, once youíve split ALL the bills (phone, cable, electric, heat, rent, insurance, etc) then inform him that he is responsible for purchasing his own food and for giving you $40 per week for half of your childís food.

Do NOT support him in any way while he is behaving like this. If his salary as a musician doesnít cover it, then he can just go get a day job. Too bad Ė heís in his 50ís and if the money from music isnít enough to cover his own share of the bills then he should have given it up years ago, because at this point itís a hobby, not a career. He wants to alter his life to his liking? Then he can pay for it!

I would do it in writing, first by itemizing the bills and showing what half is, and then by explaining that he will, from now on, purchase his own food, toiletries, miscellaneous items, etc. and that he will be expected to contribute towards the childís costs. At the end I would give him a total, and tell him what that equals weekly. Anything else is supporting his sleazy cheating ass. DO NOT DO THIS PLEASE!!!

If he has any questions about this, tell him that you will discuss this with him, but ONLY this. Donít back down. If you are paying more than half, then you can afford to remove him completely. Youíre still living with him due to finances, so make him pay his share, and nothing less is acceptable, even for one week.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1876 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, October 31st (Thursday)

I'm still not ready to rule out R with WH, but in the meantime I am detaching without expectations.

Attempting R with a person who is not willing to R is like trying to bail out a boat full of holes with a mesh bucket. You can't do it on your own.

It is hard to let go of a life that you have become so used to. Change is terrifying.

My marriage didn't seem that bad to me before the A. We tried to R, kept our same routine, but time wore me down. He didn't change, I did all the work and one day I woke up screaming ENOUGH! to myself.

As the others said, do what you have to to protect yourself, see a lawyer, get all your paperwork and financials organized. The threat of a D is like a splash of cold water in his warm fluffy magical world. You can't love him back but you can make him see that you are not a door mat, you are his wife and you are due respect!

((hugs)) and suppport from all of us.


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
Topic Posts: 89