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Reconciliation
User Topic: when do i have to decide?
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Hi all,

I am having quite a tough time of it lately. Trying to R with H but loads of setbacks when I actually think about what they did together.

I do get the odd break of an hour or so here and there i am not thinking about the affair but it's usually most of the time on most days and it's worse during and after sex. You know the kinda stuff, when he touches me I think he touched her like that etc etc. Then I feel dirty and ashamed. HB was great but I don't like this new phase.

Some days I love him, some days I hate him, but only for what he has done, the lies and the insults, not him as a person who made some really bad choices. I don't want a life without him but I can't get over what he has done. All the usual stuff.

I am all over the place and don't feel I am being fair to him. One minute I am telling him we will be fine and the next I am asking if we can just be friends cos it's too painful to deal with.

I have asked if we can sit down tonight so I can try and explain how I am feeling to him and come up with a plan on how we are going to move forward. He is all for anything that will help.

I have to explain that ours isn't the usual situation in all respects though. I have said before but I have bipolar and anxiety problems. I can't even leave the house alone or use the phone. H is my carer when it comes to interacting with the outside world. He says he realises what a huge f up he made and how much he loves me and he will do whatever I want. He said he will always be there for me anyway I want him to be.

Another complication is that my dad died right in the middle of the 2 months it took h to stop tt. He was found the day before his 67th birthday by H and had been gone for 4 days. I can't bear to think of him ill in bed and that he hadn't told me! It turns my stomach to realise he was laid there dead for so long.I am also newly diagnosed and going through med changes, have started therapy and have a lot on my plate all round. I also made a serious suicide attempt in April. Lots going on really. Can't even grieve properly for my dad cos A is taking up all my brain space.

Well, I saw my psychiatrist this morning and he was lovely. He is increasing my anti depressant and hopes that with time, therapy and med increase I will get through this but he stated it will be hard and for now he just wants me to focus on, as he put it, keeping myself safe. I.e no more od's. He said I can see him anytime but if I am managing he will see me again in a few months.

Thing is it's sort of made me feel differently about how I am managing. He said I was doing really well??!!! I was shocked cos I am all over the place! It made me wonder if I am pushing myself too hard?

I want to be fair and let H know one way or the other if I can get over this but I just can't yet. It changes daily, even hourly.

My question is, is it fair to keep H dangling like this? I am trying to move on and decide but it keeps changing depending on how I look at things and my general mood. At the moment my position is let's stay together but for the time being can we avoid sex and kissing. I am ok hugging cos he didn't do that with her but anything else I feel like it's her he is kissing, her he is touching. Hope that makes sense.

I also have severe body hatred which my therapist wants to address, and that's not helping with the physical side of things. He said he didn't compare but of course he did. I try and be intimate but it's awful afterwards. I feel ashamed of letting him touch a body I hate after he has touched a younger woman with a good body. I keep looking at photos of her and imagining h touching her. It's like self torture but I can't stop.

He also brought her to our house so I see her in my kitchen with H making her a cup of tea and imagine myself invisible and her filling my place in the house. They just looked 'right' together. She made him happy and with my problems I don't. She was his distraction from his miserable life with me.

So much going through my brain. When do I have to decide? Am I being unfair on H? Is it fair to ask for a break sexually? Am I just running away?

Can anyone point me in the right direction? It's been 4 months since the end of tt.

[This message edited by olwen at 11:27 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
chick
Member
Member # 41073
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I'm so sorry I don't have any real advice but I just wanted to reply and say I'm so sorry to hear how you are suffering.

It all sounds very complex so I am definitely not qualified to advise but I just wanted to say that you shouldn't think that he had an affair to take a break from his 'miserable life with you' - he says he loves you and you said that he wants to do anything he can that will help, that doesn't sound to me like someone who doesn't want to be with you. It sounds like you have a lot of work to do on yourself so that you can build your confidence and believe that he wants to be with you.

It all sounds like too much for a person to deal with - the affair is devastating enough but then your father passing away is another one of the most difficult things that someone can go through so no wonder you're feeling in such a mess.

I hope that it will all get easier with time when it doesn't feel so overwhelming, hopefully your psychiatrist can help you work through things.

Wishing you the best of luck.


Me - 32
Him - 32
D-Day - 6th Oct 2013
He had a ONS on 23rd Sept 2013

Posts: 69 | Registered: Oct 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Thank you chick,

re the miserable life comment maybe I am being a bit too harsh. What he actually said was he was low with all he had to deal with and her do what you want bright and breezy attitude picked him up and made him feel good. She was a distraction from real life and he got hooked on how she made him feel. She showed him hoe carefree his life could be, just like hers, and he was tempted by it.

All I can think is he was miserable cos of his life with me and work stress and she made him happy again so wouldn't he be happier with her?

He says he wouldn't, but he has to say that doesn't he? If she hadn't come along we would have worked through the rough patch as we always have done but with her in the picture he went that way instead. He says it's me and his family life that make him happy and he lost sight of that with all his attention on her.

I just can't get past that sticking point of she made him happy when he was down on life and I was part of the reason he was down in the first place.

[This message edited by olwen at 8:50 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

I wish that I could give you better advice, more knowledge but all I can tell you is what I experience. Maybe that will give you some comfort.

I still struggle daily, after a year. I change my mind constantly, sometimes hourly.

My therapist gave me this advice, "the only thing you have to decide right now is that you don't have to decide right now".

That still helps me when I am struggling.

I also struggle with the sex, the mind movies, the thoughts of him touching her when he touches me. I am hoping with time and the reassurance that I need from h, it will get easier.

I also struggle with the body image issues. I was never secure before the a and now it is worse. Still a work in progress, I still have feelings of shame over my body. I try to reassure myself by being objective, no one has a perfect body and most importantly we are all so much more than our physical appearance. Our hearts, our love, are actions, our minds, our talents, those are what are truly valuable. I know it's hard. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

I am so sorry for the lose of your father. It makes it so hard when you are grieving for so many loses all at once. I lost my father in February and my mother the year before. I feel like I never finished grieving for them either. H and I were not in a good place right after my mom died and this is the culmination of all the sadness.

Try to be patient with yourself. Be kind and remember you are doing the best you can right now. You are okay, you are good, you are amazing. Remember you are strong, just to attempt to rise above this means you are amazing.

I hope I helped in some small way.


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divorced 8/5/14


Posts: 1345 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Hey olwen

I am sorry you are struggling. It is a difficult time. Being only 4 months from dday makes one think things should have moved on more quickly...but they don't. They can't.

You don't need to decide anything yet. What you do need to do, IMO, is continue with your IC. Keep working on yourself and your self esteem issues.

You cannot have a life and expect your husband to be your "career". You need to create a life for you separate from him, with him as your husband and companion, not your everything. Does that make sense?

He also needs to heal, figure out what is lacking in HIM that would allow him to take the opportunity to cheat.

When you guys have figured out your own issues and dealt with your personal demons you will be able to tackle the A and ultimately heal the M issues.

There is no time table, no "I have to be here at 6 months, 1 year etc etc".

You have to be where you are and work through what you are standing in right now. Then take the next step. When you get through everything and are feeling strong and confident in you and your ability as a person the question to stay with him or not is no longer a question. It's either a desire or it isn't. You will know, the path will become clear.

Give yourself a break, take a breather and focus on you. If you try to carry the whole load at once it's too heavy.

One step at a time, one issue at a time one day at a time.

(((hugs)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3807 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Lyonesse
Member
Member # 32943
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

(((Olwen)))

When do you have to decide? Whenever you are ready. Certainly not at six months out, with the various other things in the mix which you have to deal with. My IC told me people want to rush to make a decision, any decision, but it is often not in our best interests to do so.

If recovery from infidelity takes 2-5 years, then I think it is more than reasonable to take 2-5 years to decide. Why would you make a decision before you were healed? We are reconciling, but I will always reserve my right to say, “I can’t do this anymore.” Reconciliation takes a lot out of both parties. The A has irrevocably changed me, and I can’t foresee how those changes will ultimately play out. H set this ball in motion, so that is one consequence – not that I am trying to make him “pay” for his actions; I certainly want “happily ever after” as much as the next person. But I will not feel guilty if in the end, the infidelity turns out to be an unsurmountable obstacle to my healthy progress. I am willing to wait and see, but I will not promise H anything I can’t foresee. Since he broke the promises he made to me, I think he should be able to understand my unwillingness to make a promise to him that I am not sure I can keep. Your H is not pressing you for a decision, is he? It sounds like you are putting this pressure on yourself, because you want to move forward from this so badly. It can't really be rushed, though. We all just want it to be "over," but it has to be got "through" first.

I want to be fair and let H know one way or the other if I can get over this but I just can't yet. It changes daily, even hourly.
My question is, is it fair to keep H dangling like this?

Please don’t get hung up on being fair. Your H wasn’t fair to you, so in a sense, it is fair to be unfair to him. Semantics aside, you are not responsible for making everything OK for everybody. You deal with your stuff, and let him deal with his. It is your choice to keep struggling on, to deal with the bipolar and grief over your father and the A on your own schedule. It is his choice to stay with you and try to support you. You do not have to make his choice be the right one – it is up to him to decide if he is making the right choices in his life. I think part of the problem with some waywards (for my H this is certainly true) is that they (he) never took responsibility for making his own choices – he always went along with whatever other people suggested. So it is good for him and it is helping him grow to see that he now has to make a choice to be the kind of person he says he wants to be. That is his struggle, not yours. Your doctor wants you to concentrate on yourself and your healing now, and that is wise advice. Your H can deal with his own healing, and yes, I think he should also support you in yours. I think that is the bare minimum a remorseful betrayer can do, to support their BS in the first year or so in recovering from the trauma, whether or not a R is possible in the long run. It is just basic first aid to an injury they caused, IMO. Give the BS a safe place to heal and breathe, before the long hard work of R begins.

All I can think is he was miserable cos of his life with me and work stress and she made him happy again so wouldn't he be happier with her?

He wasn’t miserable because of his life with you, but because of his own attitudes in dealing with the difficulties of life, which we all have. And no, I don’t think anyone can “make” anyone happy. He chose to chase a temporary high to soothe himself because he was not dealing well with the difficulties of his life. And I don’t believe he would be happier with her. 1) he says he would not and 2) I doubt anyone can have real happiness when they know they have injured another person – that has everything to do with him, not another woman's magic fairy dust. We find our own peace and happiness, we don’t “get” it from someone who can dispense happiness.


“Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.”
― Dalai Lama XIV

I was reading on what happiness is, and psychologists are now defining it as “bringing more meaning and satisfaction into our lives.” I think you should believe your husband if he has discovered his family and his long relationship with you brings meaning to his life, and that finding his best self again is bringing him satisfaction.
Please stop worrying about saving the world; let go and heal. You do not have to, and in fact SHOULD NOT, make any decisions until you are whole again. Your husband’s decisions are his own. He chose poorly before. Perhaps he is choosing wisely now.

[This message edited by Lyonesse at 9:39 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS, 40's.

Posts: 1795 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: West Coast
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Thanks everyone, it's good to know I am not failing. I do have to work on me I am just worried it's not fair to keep h hanging on when I work through all that.

cantaccept, I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your parents, it's so unfair. You sound very similar to me. Let's hope we get thru this ok.

karmahappens - I think separating the issues is a big problem for me. I just don't know where to start. I feel suffocated. H has lots of 'whys' including wanting validation from other women. low self esteem, not being able to say no and last but not least a professional manipulator who went to work on him the second she started working with him. She kept telling him they were just friends so he felt stupid everytime has asked her to back off. Next thing you know he has done a bunch of stuff he never normally would and felt trapped in the a cos of what she might tell me.Not excusing him he is a grown man who should have stopped it. I wish he had.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

((Lyonesse) thank you so much! Everything you said makes so much sense and is something I will read over and over. It is a real comfort


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lyonesse
Member
Member # 32943
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)


Me: BS, 40's.

Posts: 1795 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: West Coast
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

karmahappens - I think separating the issues is a big problem for me. I just don't know where to start. I feel suffocated. H has lots of 'whys' including wanting validation from other women. low self esteem, not being able to say no and last but not least a professional manipulator who went to work on him the second she started working with him. She kept telling him they were just friends so he felt stupid everytime has asked her to back off. Next thing you know he has done a bunch of stuff he never normally would and felt trapped in the a cos of what she might tell me.Not excusing him he is a grown man who should have stopped it. I wish he had.

You have to start.Make a plan with your IC. Decide on what you will tackle first.

Read what you wrote above. Do you see it?

You started with you, for a sentence...then it is all him, his issues, his whys.

You cannot control him, you cannot fix him. Let him do his heavy work. Let go of his baggage, you have your own to carry.

One step olwen, take one step for you today, then take another tomorrow. Eventually you will be halfway through the journey and it just starts with one step...and a little faith.

Try, for you.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 9:50 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3807 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

karmahappens - I honestly never realised I did that! You have got me thinking.I do it all the time though. He couldn't even tell me all that happened without me dragging it out of him and helping him (and me)make sense of it. He may be my carer in practical ways but I have always felt a bit like his mum. He cannot make a decision on his own, won't even buy a pair of jeans let alone make decisions about his life. Even the affair was just him doing what she told him from start to finish. He doesn't even know why he didn't stop it or why he did everything she wanted even when he didn't want to.

He is devastated about his actions so I have been trying to fix this for both our sakes. Do you have any idea how freeing it would be to let him deal with his own stuff?! It would be incredible. Sadly, I worry he would just do what he did before confessing. Lock it all in a little box and never look at it again. There is so much he can't remember cos he just shut it all out. Wow, I wish I could do that.

I guess I am scared if I don't help him understand his actions he will just go back to his old ways and never give it a second thought. He might feel bad but he won't do anything about it unless I am pushing him to. Maybe I am worrying too much but when he had his facebook thing (extreme flirting with an ex - also outgoing and carefree) he didn't take it seriously. HE says now he wished he had listened to me and not dismissed it then maybe his a would not have happened. I even warned him just before his A started that his assistants pm's to him were flirty. He said I was imagining things.

I guess I am scared to just let him be cos I don't know what he will do. We can't afford for him to have counselling at £60/hr either

I can see just from writing this that that's just what I am going to have to do. Christ that scares me.

Now to me ....my therapist is trying to get my head away from the affair. She wants to work on my anxiety and low self esteem. She says we will look at the other stuff later but I can't really deal with the affair until I have dealt with my issues. It's so hard cos in sessions my anxiety kicks in so I want to run away and it's hard to focus on what she is saying and then harder still as thoughts of A are cropping up in my head when we are trying to deal with other stuff. She wants me to learn to soothe myself and be compassionate to myself then I can look at the other issues in a healthier way. That will be a tall order for me.

Phew, I need a holiday just thinking about it all.

Thanks for you help and for helping me to see I am way too wrapped up in H and not enough in sorting my own problems out.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

You have to let him be devastated enough to fix him.

The A will be in your head, it can't not be. But let it be there....just let it sit. No fixing right now.

You can do this, fix you, trust me, once you do everything else will slowly go in the right direction.

Good luck!!

ETA

sorry but this...

I guess I am scared if I don't help him understand his actions he will just go back to his old ways and never give it a second thought. He might feel bad but he won't do anything about it unless I am pushing him to.

If that is true you don't want him to be your H. You want a H that will stand up and move heaven and earth to fix what he has broken/is broken.

(((hugs)))

[This message edited by karmahappens at 10:17 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3807 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Thanks so much, I have had some excellent advice and realised a few things too. I am so glad I posted about this. I really appreciate the help ((karmhappens))

ETA - maybe I will be surprised if I do just let him be. He was very good at the beginning when I wasn't capable of thinking for either of us. He was horrible til he confessed in the end then he was very good. I need to step back, work on me and give him the space to be him and see what comes of it. Scary but it needs to be done and hopefully further down the line the answer will be waiting for me.

[This message edited by olwen at 10:25 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Most important, remember that being all over the place is extremely likely to be a symptom of the not having the right drugs in the right doses. Once you get the right doses of the right drugs, your head will settle down.

Also very important - you're 5 months from the end of TT. That's not a long time for your H to wait. Years of TT make it hard to commit. The turmoil in your mind due to drugs makes it hard to decide. From what you say, your H will understand.

Remember, you can work on yourself and on your M without committing to R, and that work will contribute to R just as much without the commitment as with it - it's the same work, either way.

Nothing you've talked about, except about the prescribed drugs, is really unusual. People have felt and written as you and survived infidelity and thrived. You're loving, lovable, and capable. You have some good support. With work and a little good luck, you can thrive, too.

BTW, if the drugs are taken out of the equation, the turmoil your report sounds pretty normal for 4-8 months out. Last TT was about 4 months ago. Just sayin'....

I know life looks bleak right now, but I think it'll get better for you soon.

And IMO, there's no need to decide until you want to.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10100 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

Thanks sissoon, you're right. In some ways as horrible as this is it's nice to know my reactions are normal regardless of the bipolar etc. It's an awful way to feel 'normal' but comforting in a way too. I know I am not really losing my mind, its the situation and others feel just the same way.

It's different to when I usually get this low and am banging my head against a wall trying to figure out why! At least this time I know why.

It's mainly cos of my suicidal tendencies that my meds are being altered. Something I always struggled with when times get really tough. I can feel the meds are helping my illness cos I don't get high anymore but it's the situation that's screwing my head up. am hoping the increase will help me calm down a bit though.

Thank you for reminding me I am not just floundering cos of my condition but cos I am in a bloody shitty place right now. Pardon my language.

Thanks for the words of comfort too.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

(((olwen)))
I am sorry you are in such a painful place right now. All I can say is time.
Learn to love yourself with all your heart. I dont care if she was a super model we all have flaws. Hers run so deep she is nothing compared to you!
What type of person sleeps with a married man?
See? We are here for you! Believe tomorrow will be better cause it will!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)

(((heartache101))) thank you


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 758 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 17