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Just Found Out
User Topic: My story
HollyLou
New Member
Member # 41248
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, November 6th (Wednesday)

I need to get this out...

Last week was D-day. He had stayed up late on Saturday (10 days ago) and forgot to shut down computer- found an email to an old girlfriend with a PO Box address at the end of it.

After a day of puzzling out why he'd have a PO box (yes, I'm a bit slow), I ordered a free credit report for him and found the cc. Went into his wallet, copied the info, created an online account (he is not tech savvy) and found statements and hotel/restaurant/etc charges. Cross-referenced that with the phone records and voila. 1 year long series of hotels- 1-2x/mo from Aug 2012 to July 2013.

We were having our annual Halloween party in a few days and OW was invited and planning on attending. I told him I knew by off-hand saying "I need you to do me a favor. Call OW and tell her she can not come to the party nor is she ever welcome in my home again." He fully confessed (not happily, but honestly) to this one and that it happened also 2 years prior with the same OW. He broke it off then, waited a year and started it up again, broke it off in July 2013 (from what he says.)

We've been married 17 years and have had our problems- mostly communication and bedroom. We went to counseling in 2010, but it was a joke. 3 session which included a long list of my faults and then he claimed we were done. As far as daily life goes, he is my best friend. We seem to be compatible in life (laughing and joking).

He has said he called the PA off in July (no more charges), but called her often up thru to a few weeks ago. He has agreed to NC (I demanded that before even finding this site), and I have since blocked her phone numbers since I've been driving myself crazy checking his phone every day!

Not sure where I'm going with this yet. He is in the guest room for now. He seems to have already done everything on the R table (remorse, NC, agreed to me looking into everything, etc.)

Although I don't have much faith in counselors, I've looked up some in my area. How do you know if you have a good one? I've been compelled to go this route based on the posts here.

I'm just so sad. And I'm sad that I'm member 41000 something- and I'm sad I'm so na´ve.

[This message edited by HollyLou at 8:34 PM, November 6th (Wednesday)]


BW, 45
WH, 48
D-Day 10/30/13
M: 17 yrs
2 DDs 15, 13
Status: ??

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: MA
ontheslope
Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, November 6th (Wednesday)

Although I don't have much faith in counselors, I've looked up some in my area. How do you know if you have a good one? I've been compelled to go this route based on the posts here.

I'm just so sad.

This is indeed a good place to start. You will need someone to help you through this, to help you process this. A counselor can help. How do you know if you've found a good one? There isn't a science to it, but you'll know when you know. Just don't be afraid to try more than one. You can hire and fire them at will, they don't take offense.

Sad... yes, that is one of the early emotions. I'm sorry. I know how hard this is. Unfortunately, sad is often times the top of the roller-coaster, and there are many more emotions to come. It is so early for you, and that is a bad place to be.

The important thing is to let yourself feel those emotions when they come. All of them. Some people (like me, to my detriment) will push the feelings aside, bottle things up, pretend that things didn't happen or that they can just ignore them and move on. Don't do that. You have your ticket for the roller-coaster, and it's one that no one ever wants, but you HAVE to ride it if you are to get through this one way or another. You have to get on and take the first plunge. The roller-coaster does end, but you can't chose to not get on. That is not an option. All you can do is delay the ride, and that never ends well....trust me.

I'm so sorry for you. I wish you the best.

Yes, HollyLou, member 41,248. So many people here. So much hurt. That is sad too.

And we are but a subset of the populace who has faced this.


Me: BH, 36
Her: WW, 37
Two girls 8 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
HollyLou
New Member
Member # 41248
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, November 7th (Thursday)

What are the later emotions?

I've already imagined all sorts of nasty things about OW. I even tried to call her once, but oddly she wouldn't take my calls! (lame joke.) She is divorced with 2 kids. I haven't tried to call again, hoping her skanky self can be cut out like a cancer from my world.

I do have an urge to call her ex, since apparently he knew about the A. Why didn't he tell me?

WH seems to think that because I haven't demanded D already that we're going to save the M. He is willing to go to counseling. We are talking more and BETTER than ever- Tues night we talked for 2.5 hours and I asked all sorts of questions about the A which he answered. Even the really unpleasant ones. Even the ones I didn't already know the answers to.

I've also told him that I have no idea if we can save the M, since I just don't know how much of this I can live with.

I've asked him to cancel the PO Box and the cc. He has not yet done either.


BW, 45
WH, 48
D-Day 10/30/13
M: 17 yrs
2 DDs 15, 13
Status: ??

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: MA
annb
Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, November 7th (Thursday)

Hi, Holly, welcome to SI.

There are some great posts for newbies on the first or second page of this forum, check them out, each has a target icon on the left-hand side.

How do you know if you have a good one?

Counselor will not place blame or force you to rugsweep the infidelity. Infidelity is TRAUMA. Counselor (if your WH attends) will call him out on his sh*t.

Personally, I would not agree to marriage counseling just yet until you are confident he is NC, is completely transparent giving you access to everything including voicemails, emails, social pages, etc. Accountable for his whereabouts at all times. Reading the posts I mentioned above will give you a better understanding. You cannot rebuild a marriage on a bed of lies. His actions will speak volumes, his words at this point are questionable.

Be prepared for a long and painful roller coaster, one day up, two days down.

The best thing you can do for yourself right now is focus on YOU and do not make any hasty decisions until you truly have a chance to process the reality of an affair.

I've asked him to cancel the PO Box and the cc. He has not yet done either

^^Non-negotiable, he should have made this a priority from D-day.


((((HollyLou))))


Posts: 7462 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, November 7th (Thursday)

Hi HollyLou,

Although I don't have much faith in counselors, I've looked up some in my area. How do you know if you have a good one? I've been compelled to go this route based on the posts here

It is my experience that it is a bit of a crap shoot, and attending a session or two may be required to find the right fit. You can look for a background that fits you, for instance when I was looking for an IC I found one with an Academic background. I thought this might be a good fit for me and it was. For others a religious/Christian focus or some other aspect may be the place to start. Interview them a bit on the phone about their experience and approach. Ask about years of experience and licensure. It is good if they accept your insurance too (if your insurance will cover).

A good MC will, in my opinion, see the couple together, and then want to see each individually to reality check expectations.

It is my opinion that MC is of little value until after the WS has attended some IC to identify, own, and begin to work on correcting the faults in their personality or behavior set that resulted in the A. I, and many others, attended early MC sessions only to have issues raised that only existed in the miss-perceiving minds of our WS. Until FWW was able to see how she had miss-cast me as the problem in the M, projected her issues on to me, and owned her crap, we were not able to make any headway on the M. Likewise, while I was still dealing with rage and sadness from dday and ready to go off on FWW at a moments notice, I was not ready to work constructively with her as a partner on the M. We both had to get some healing and trauma resolved before we could try to work together.

WH seems to think that because I haven't demanded D already that we're going to save the M.

Let me offer you a third option between D and R (saving the M); Not Divorcing. You are unsure about D and feel reasonably safe in the relationship for now, so you are not immediately going the D route. To be in R you both must be committed to healing the M. The BS must be healed enough to again accept the WS as a full member of the M relationship. The WS must be healed, or on the way to healed, of wayward thoughts and behaviors. I would say that you are both too close to dday and no where near the healing and repair necessary for being in R. From my experience, 6 or more months out from dday is probably the earliest to be jumping into R. I wanted to see some sustained change in my WS before I committed to R.

When Not Divorcing you can watch to look for sustained change in your WS. You can work on your healing and getting to acceptance. Not Divorcing is a sort of intentional limbo while you decide which path you wish to take. Not Divorcing also works longer term if you decide that there are not enough positive changes in your WS that you want to work on R and get back to an emotionally intimate relationship, but that you are willing to accept the status quo as opposed to D.

As you move forward, I recommend the books Not Just Friends by Glass and Sexual Detours by Hines for both the BS and WS. In fact, you can both read them, and discuss what you learn and how the books apply to your situation.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4113 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, November 7th (Thursday)

Welcome, and sorry you are here, you will find many great people with stories that are eerily similar, and others that are so far from anything you could imagine that you will be amazed. One thing you will find is no real judgement, and lots of great advice. We are here because we share this one thing. Many of us have BTDT, and offer advice to help you from making the same mistakes we have made.

I kinda have a checklist of things that are essential to helping you find your feet again.

1. Go to your Dr get STD tested. It's just the ugly reality of the situtaion, demand that your H does as well, and until he does use protection. While your at the Dr share that you are going through some personal stressors, and if you are unable to eat, sleep, and stay hydrated please ask for a little pharmaceutical support. Sleep was essential for me, and without a least one good night every 3-4 days I was an emotional trainwreck.

2. Go see a Divorce Attorney. Get information, and gain an understanding of what your rights are, his responsiblities are, and how things would play out should you choose to go down that path. Not that you will, but dont let fear of the unknown, or assumptions push you into a decision to stay if it ultimately isnt right for you.

3. Establish, and maintain NC between the AP thaat counts for both of you. Do not believe him, and do not trust him. Demand transparency, that is access to his phone, his emails, his computers/tablets etc. If he is pissy about it, then he is most likely still in contact. You should also be one nosey, snooping, double checking person. The fact that he was with this woman before, and supposedly ended it for a year, and went back tells me he is sneaky and knows how to take things underground. Pay attention to the money he is spending, the phone bills, and so forth. Look for a burner/second cell phone (oldest trick in the book).

4. Know that you are in a position of power right now, it's totally your choice to R, or D. You also get to lay the ground rules for R. If you want him to have therapy then he does it, if you want him to read books x, y, and z, then make it a condition of R. You are sad and feel broken, and that is normal, but you will come out the other side of this a much stronger person than you ever imagined you could be.

I get therapy not being your thing, it wasn't ours either. We went exactly 3 times to MC. He was great, but we knew what we had to do to get it back on the rails. Several books we read that helped were, for me Codependent no more, for us 5 love languages, and 7 principles of a healthy Marriage. Those kinda gave us the starting points.

YOU are in no way to blame for this, it is all on him and his brokenness, and he has a lot of work to do to figure out why he chose to have an A, and then repeat the offense. Until he does this, you are really prone to history repeating itself.

Read the healing library over on the left, print off the info for your husband that has to do with what WS's need to do to heal.

Lastly don't feel pressured to make a decision today, tomorrow, next week, or next month. Let his actions show you what you may or may not want to do.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8155 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
HollyLou
New Member
Member # 41248
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, November 11th (Monday)

atsenaotie- thank you very much for your advice about option of "Not divorcing". I used it!

My update: Last night we went out to a bar to talk some more (away from home and kids). I shared some of the stuff I had read- I printed something out for him to read. So here is where we are: I have agreed that we'll try 1 year of Not Divorcing. Doesn't mean we won't. Doesn't mean anything other than we both need some space away from that question-mark. Relax a bit without wondering how we're splitting assets, who gets the dog, what is going to happen at Thanksgiving, Xmas, birthdays, etc. Then, we'll assess where we are and what we (collectively) want to do.

Affair: So far, he seems to be fully remorseful and honest about everything- telling me stuff I didn't really know, confirming stuff I did know. He is firmly committed to No Contact with OW, getting rid of the PO Box and CC and knowing that I'm going to be all over his shit looking and questioning everything- I need total transparency. We are both going to get a full STD workup. I don't want to get a yeast infection and be thinking the OW gave me herpes. I must KNOW that isn't a possibility. Basically, the hiding, lying, cheating has to be OVER and over so thoroughly that I won't have any niggling suspicions or crap. I warned him that I read that I'll have to go through all the stages of grief (according to the Healing Library) and 'they' said that could take months and even years! I am not over it and won't be over it for awhile-- I'll never forget it. I'm waiting to see if I can forgive it and live with it.

After all that we talked about our Marriage. We talked about a few things were are going to do differently (some in actions, some in communicating). He made a top 7 things he would like to do differently. I had a top 3 because frankly I'm still kinda in a fog about the whole thing (Stage 1: Denial/Isolation) and I'm trying to think ahead. I contacted a Marriage Counselor, but she hasn't returned my call. I think I'll also do some Individual counseling as well. As far as implementing the Things to do Differently list, I'm going through the motions, which he knows. Maybe I'll get to a point where those things are natural and really from a giving heart, but I told him I'm not there yet.

He is still in the spare room for now.

That's about it so far. I'm eating a lot of candy. It'd be nice if I was one of those that lost 10lbs from this, but I'm just feeding my feelings!


BW, 45
WH, 48
D-Day 10/30/13
M: 17 yrs
2 DDs 15, 13
Status: ??

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: MA
HollyLou
New Member
Member # 41248
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, November 11th (Monday)

Here's my question:

I'm feeling pretty cold and rational. I'm 12 days past D-Day. I'm incredibly sad and a bit distant (feeling some depression). I'm recovering from a cold, and feel the need to sleep all the time but then not feeling rested when I wake.

For the first few day, I was shaking, feeling some deep anxiety, anger and a lot of crying/sobbing. But now, not much (although I can bring myself to tears if I want to.)

I'm not screaming in anger, I'm not bargaining, I'm not burying my head in the sand either. I'm not throwing his stuff out on the lawn and setting it on fire. Not feeling revulsion at his touch (hugging mostly and chaste kisses on the cheek/head). He seems to have been doing everything a WS should be doing if we are going to reconcile.

Why am I not feeling anything?

[This message edited by HollyLou at 11:02 AM, November 11th (Monday)]


BW, 45
WH, 48
D-Day 10/30/13
M: 17 yrs
2 DDs 15, 13
Status: ??

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: MA
steadfast1973
Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, November 11th (Monday)

I feel the same way. I have full disclosure, total remorse... but I am feeling... nothing. sad... a little. Disappointed... some... but I feel. muted.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, November 11th (Monday)

Here's my question:
I'm feeling pretty cold and rational. I'm 12 days past D-Day. I'm incredibly sad and a bit distant (feeling some depression). I'm recovering from a cold, and feel the need to sleep all the time but then not feeling rested when I wake.

For the first few day, I was shaking, feeling some deep anxiety, anger and a lot of crying/sobbing. But now, not much (although I can bring myself to tears if I want to.)

I'm not screaming in anger, I'm not bargaining, I'm not burying my head in the sand either. I'm not throwing his stuff out on the lawn and setting it on fire. Not feeling revulsion at his touch (hugging mostly and chaste kisses on the cheek/head). He seems to have been doing everything a WS should be doing if we are going to reconcile.

Why am I not feeling anything?

I was the same way for about 6 weeks. I was in shock. I didn't scream and I was able to eat just fine. Then it hit like a ton of bricks. Anger, hurt, couldn't eat, crying every day, multiple times a day, gut wrenching sobbing... You get the picture.

I hope it's not that bad for you but don't feel like something is wrong. People react in their own time and in their own way.


Me (BW) (54), Him(SAWH) (57)
Married 21 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1453 | Registered: Nov 2010
meplusfour
Member
Member # 38958
Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, November 11th (Monday)

Just some advice about taking a year of Not Divorcing. My fWh wanted desperately to move to R immediately after D-day. I told fWH that i would need at least six months to figure out what i needed but in the mean time, I needed certain things to ensure financial security. The two things that I was adamant on was having our home transferred into my name alone and the stock portfolio into my name. This gave me enough security that my children and I would not lose our home and that I could care for them and fight a legal battle if necessary. My concern was that he was just buying time to move and shift assets so that I could no longer access them or hide them. FWh fulfilled these requirements and I was secure enough to explore the possibility of R.

My message to you is to keep a close eye on your finances-bank statements, stock portfolios, retirement savings, mortgage statements, credit card statements, tax returns, vehicle registrations, basically anything to do with money. Make copies of everything, store in a safe place outside of your home. I would hate to discover that your WH took this time to hide and move money. Consider asking your WH for act of good faith if he is committed to R.

Just keep yourself in the best position possible and look out for your own interests.


BW (me)42
WH 44
3 daughters, 1 son
Married 10 years, together 13
DDay 3/14/2013, four year PA
In R
"Sometimes you have to accept the fact that certain things will never go back to the way they used to be."

Posts: 357 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
chick
Member
Member # 41073
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, November 11th (Monday)

I'm not screaming in anger, I'm not bargaining, I'm not burying my head in the sand either. I'm not throwing his stuff out on the lawn and setting it on fire. Not feeling revulsion at his touch (hugging mostly and chaste kisses on the cheek/head). He seems to have been doing everything a WS should be doing if we are going to reconcile.

Why am I not feeling anything?

I also had this for a few days - just felt no emotion in particular - still do in between waves of other emotions (such as unexpectedly crying my eyes out in the car on the way to work this morning when a soppy break up song came on the radio) - I am battling a lot with how I am feeling vs. how I think I should be feeling - our MC says that there is no 'should be' and any feelings are completely normal.

I felt guilty and very worried when I was feeling nothing, I was scared that it meant that I didn't care enough to try to work things out. But it definitely doesn't, it was just one of a range of weird emotions that I have never felt before.

Whatever you are feeling you are not alone - like you said before you are one of 40000+ people (agree, extremely sad) who is going through this - and that is only the people on this site. I'm so sorry to hear your story, it makes me so mad that every single day there are probably hundreds of people making this horrible discovery about their husband/wife.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you.


Me - 32
Him - 32
D-Day - 6th Oct 2013
He had a ONS on 23rd Sept 2013

Posts: 69 | Registered: Oct 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, November 12th (Tuesday)

Two things -
It is normal to kinda not feel anything for a while. It's your brains way of taking a break from the overwhelming emotion you have felt so intensely for the prior time. This is a really good time reflect, and figure out what you want, and neeed to move forward.

Secondly - I say this from a been there done that point of view - Please please please know that your H may be remorseful and doing the right things now, but prepare yourself for the worst. He may start feeling bad or sorry for himself, and break NC, or feel like you aren't healing fast enough, and then what?

Take the time, and money to see a divorce attorney. Figure out what your rights, are and what his responsiblities are. It's ok for you to protect yourself and your kids finanacially during this limbo time. I personally squirrled away enough money to make 2 months of house payments, should he flip out, and go away, I was safe, for long enough to figure out a game plan. The cool thing was R went well, and I didn't need that money, it was used for a few fun things, like getting our Lab, and a few weekend trips away for just us. The rest went back in the bank.

Protect yourself, and its ok to cautiously optimistic.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8155 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
HollyLou
New Member
Member # 41248
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, November 13th (Wednesday)

Thanks so much for your responses. The one thing I'm fairly confident in is the finances. Not only do I make a good living (I could take over the mortgage - barely), but I also do all the investing and book work. He was able to do this by squirreling away small amounts - few hundred a month- but anything more than that I'm all over.

But your points are valid, so I'll take some additional steps.


BW, 45
WH, 48
D-Day 10/30/13
M: 17 yrs
2 DDs 15, 13
Status: ??

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: MA
HollyLou
New Member
Member # 41248
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, November 15th (Friday)

Right now, I'm in a bit of quandary. I've asked twice that he cancel the cc and the PO Box- I demanded that this has to be gone so I can know he is done hiding. He has said all the right things and even told me that he'd go to the PO on Tuesday, but here it is on Friday and he hasn't done either. There are no current charges on the cc (I check it online). He left for the weekend yesterday (pre-planned trip with my daughter)but before he left, I took the PO box key off his key ring. Figured I'd check it out and perhaps I can see what he doesn't want me to see. Either he is still hiding stuff or he is absolutely CLUELESS at how important this is to my healing. If I can heal at all.

So I checked and found a card from the old girlfriend that he sent (that started this whole ordeal) as a returned to sender. I opened it and read what he sent her- it was similar to the email that he used as a draft that I had already seen, but had a bit more 'tender language' at the end. As a suspicious BS, it seems too lovey. Combine that with the fact it is in his 'hidden' PO box- I'm pretty upset. The only positive is that he sent it before D-Day. But the negative is that he sent it thinking I wouldn't know, and he wanted to hide it from me.

I left all the rest of the junk mail but took the card. I cant' decide to confront him with the letter, or just destroy it and have him think that she didn't respond. I want to just destroy it, but it seems to be too much of playing a game and not being "open and honest" like we are supposed to be.

One thing I do know, I'm feeling pretty depressed. It is taking everything I have not to go back to bed (it is 12:30 in the afternoon!)

[This message edited by HollyLou at 11:37 AM, November 15th (Friday)]


BW, 45
WH, 48
D-Day 10/30/13
M: 17 yrs
2 DDs 15, 13
Status: ??

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: MA
Topic Posts: 15