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User Topic: too many issues
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

I don't even know where to start....I read some of the articles and links in the healing library. tried to do some of the suggestions with limited success so far. I have no idea how much detail I'm allowed to post or not, so I'll keep it general. Some backstory, my wife has been depressed etc for the last 9 years. After the birth of our daughter, the PPD has been very severe for the past 9 months.

Found out my W had at least an EA with an old high school friend that started about 18 months ago. She fabricated a total lie to go on a trip (she told me she was meeting her family she stayed with while overseas in college)and the OM helped her with this lie. I only found out because I had to restore my cell phone to her last backup, and I got her copy of the text conversations. I was with ou 9 month old daughter in the middle of the grocery store when I saw it on 11/3. I felt like I had been shot. My stomach and chest hurt. This same OM brought his son to visit us about 6 weeks after that initial trip. I babysitted for an evening while they went out...how could I have been so blind? Easy, I trusted.

I immediately fired off an email to the OM, with a couple of questions, and the promise that the next time I see him, it will not go well for him. I then texted my W and told her we needed to talk when I got home. She immediately called and I informed her I knew about it as I walked about the grocery store. I then hung up and proceeded to finish up the shopping then headed home, and completely ignored my wife while I spent my entire day with my daughter.

After my daughter went to bed, I demanded to know everything. She denied that anything had happened beyond what I had discovered. She admitted to lying about the premise of the trip, and that even for the last few days of it, the OM wife was there too, so that nothing happened. My W claims that when the OM and his son came to visit, nothing happened, they just met some friends from high school in a bar. We left the conversation as we both agreed that we want to work things out. Later I found her crying in bed talking about suicide, life insurance, divorce. I just told her to call a cab if she needed to go to hospital, if not, let me know. I made her assure me that she could take care of our daughter.

Sunday night, instead of working, I found this site and did a bunch of reading. Continued that reading into Monday. And tried to have a conversation with her Monday night (11/4) I asked to go through details of trip and subsequent visit. She told me they only kissed and couldn't go through it. And that nothing at all happened on the subsequent trip.

She refused to do a NC letter, but agreed to NC. However I had to ask her 3 days later (11/7) why the OM contact information was still on our phone.

She outright refused to give me complete and total access to her cell phone, emails, and social networking accounts. Yes, this really bothers me. She claims it would shred her sense of privacy and that if I can't trust her we should just end the marriage. I told her if I can't see her phone, that my mind will now always expect the worse, and that it will be more difficult for me to trust again. And we had the circular argument "if you can't trust we should D" and "just show me the phone" back and forth.

I go between the denial stage, and hurt stage. It would be really easy to just bury my head and soldier on, pretend my feelings don't count, pretend what she did doesn't matter. But I know, if I had done the "exact" same thing that she did, I would be paying for it in spades. I know I'm already letting her off easy. She has physical and mental health issues (which have been a major part of our marriage)and my top priority is my daughter.

Oh well, if nothing else comes of this at least a vented a bit.

EDIT 1/16/14-The OM from Adult Friend Finder (which I did not know about when I originally wrote this post) was in my house with my WW when I was posting this.

[This message edited by Michman at 12:04 PM, January 16th (Thursday)]


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
MovingUpward
Guide
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

Welcome Michman

The circular arguments with here aren't going to get you anywhere. I feel that any demand you make, she'll won't comply. I get a sense that she feels entitled to "protections and rights". She has only left you an opening of deal with it or divorce. I don't feel that you are ready to divorce so to make an ultimatum of "do this or I'll divorce you" would be ill advised.

Definitely take care of your daughter right now.

As for her suicide talk, has she done this in the past? Have you thought about taking her to the ER when she is like this?


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 52112 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

My ex did the same when I demanded his phone when we were in R. He said, "I deserve some privacy too!!!" I literally laughed in his face.

That is when I knew he wasn't really interested in full R…but we struggled a few more months. What he did, which actually bothered me more, is he bought a new phone because, "well…I don't know who all has my number and I don't want something innocent to blow up with you!". Yeah. Red Flag.

So, we got new phones with new phone numbers, and I had access to THAT phone during R.

There is something she doesn't want you to know. That is the only reason for hiding.

There are lot of people to support you here!


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4128 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

yep that circular argument is annoying...

and because you are hurting it is hard to think straight...

So...

YOU: "YES, honey, a successful M indeed requires trust, but you have gravely broken my trust and now you will have to earn my trust back. It will take a long time and effort on your part."

HER: "BLAH BLAH BLAH"

YOU: "as a matter of fact, if you continue to resist transparency by giving me access to your stuff, then you are showing me that earning my trust is not important to you and thus it will take even longer."


DO not couch this in terms of your fears/weakness:

I told her if I can't see her phone, that my mind will now always expect the worse

^^^No. Tell her complete honesty and transparency are what M is about. If she says that you might as well divorce (a threat to make you back off from her cake-eating and continuing the A), tell her that you will gladly give her divorce and go see a lawyer.

Also Mich, look for posts by member "Bigger"...he has a lot to say about how to get yourself OUT of infidelity, either with or without your WW.

Also, sorry to say this, but 'just kissed' is probably minimizing...

Sorry you are here...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 867 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

She outright refused to give me complete and total access to her cell phone, emails, and social networking accounts. Yes, this really bothers me. She claims it would shred her sense of privacy and that if I can't trust her we should just end the marriage. I told her if I can't see her phone, that my mind will now always expect the worse, and that it will be more difficult for me to trust again. And we had the circular argument "if you can't trust we should D" and "just show me the phone" back and forth.

I will say this.. Stay strong...

When you are married.. nothing is private. It is two becoming one. Too me.. If she must have this privacy, NO WAY I am in a marriage like that.. I hope that is the same for YOU.

True.. If she cannot trust you with her private info.. Yes you should D. That is about YOU not her.. YOu should not want this kind of M.

The unsaid thing in her penance.. her consequences is to reveal... And yes, as painful as it is.. It will help you later accept.

Something you must now consider.. Can you be a man who can handle what you already know?

I think you are approaching this the right way for now. Stay strong brother..

Peace be with you.


Posts: 2674 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
kansas1968
Member
Member # 32214
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

She is still in the fog and has not broken her emotional connection to the OM. You are going to have to get tough with her. You can't let her argue with you about her private information. She lost the right to privacy when she broke your trust.
Tell her she has to deliver a NC message to OM, has to give you all access to everything, emails, phones, etc., and it would be a good idea to start counseling.

If she refuses, contact an attorney and make sure she knows you did. If she thinks you are serious about leaving, that may be enough to jar her back to reality.

It is a long road and is not fun, but you can make it through and things will get better, no matter what happens. Keep posting. You will get a lot of support here.


Me - BS
Him - FWS
DD - December 14, 2010
Married 43 years 1/14/2011
Affair lasted 7+ years
Affair had been over for 2 years before I found out. OW sent me a letter.

Posts: 1308 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Kansas
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

talking about suicide

Don't take a chance next time she talks like that.. call 911.

Posts: 2674 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Rabecca
Member
Member # 41076
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

Not in the best position to give much advice but stay strong. No one wants to ride this roller coaster. The WS's don't care about anyone's feelings but their own. Keep reading the healing library. There is a lot of great stuff and really great people here too.


D day August 13, 2013
Me: 29
WH: 28
Together 13 years married 7 years
3 kids (5,3,10 months)

Posts: 63 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Rabecca
jackson
Member
Member # 18819
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

the OM wife was there too, so that nothing happened

Have you talked to the OM's W about this? I would want her take on what is going on.

Posts: 790 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Midwest
brkn_heartd
Member
Member # 30396
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

Call her bluff....talk to an attorney and let her know you did. Doesn't mean you have to do anything. That will help yank her out of her fantasy world.


Me-51 BS
Him 58-WS
Married 31 yrs, together 34
Affair Aug-Dec 09
official D-12/14/09
broke NC 1/31/10
second D 3/19/10

Posts: 1591 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Northwesten US
statistic
Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

Dear ((MM))

Her circular logic is anything but logical. Do not allow yourself to be pulled in to the quicksand that is circular logic. This is a defense used by WS's who assume that the threat of divorce will make you cower and bend to their will. State your intention and leave it at that. You need her to be transparent to establish a foundation from which to build trust. No, you do not trust her right now as well you shouldn't.

My biggest mistake thus far has been not calling my husbands bluff. I tried to reason through his circular logic out of fear of losing him. I figured, "if he only understood why I need this, then he would surely engage in my request." No. They fully understand, but want to maintain some type of control of the life that is slipping through their fingers. State your claim and walk away. It is the only thing that saved my sanity and got him to drop his demands. Imagine that! The moment I stop reasoning, responding, engaging with him, he has an "A HA!" moment. Best of luck. SI will help. Everyone here has helped me through some very dark times.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 151 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

She claims it would shred her sense of privacy and that if I can't trust her we should just end the marriage.

She just proven to you that you can't trust her, by lying to you, and continuing to lie to you, and the reason she doesn't want the accounts open to you is that she has to hide that or the lies become exposed.

I would call her on her BS, and tell her that if she doesn't turn it all over, and now, that you will know that the worst that could happen, did happen, for there is absolutely no other reason for hiding these things.

Having "secrecy" is what she wants, not privacy.

Secrecy destroys relationships (ask my wife, the former biggest secret keeper on earth, who had to be brought to the doorway of divorce before she would stop keeping secrets...and not just about her affair), a fact that our MC pointed out and explained quite well to my wife as we went through the years of MC till she got the point.

You can have your secrets, or you can have a healthy equitable marriage, but you can't have both.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 968 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)

First off, sorry that you are here. If there is any silver lining, it is that you found a great place for support.

She refused to do a NC letter, but agreed to NC. However I had to ask her 3 days later (11/7) why the OM contact information was still on our phone.

She outright refused to give me complete and total access to her cell phone, emails, and social networking accounts. Yes, this really bothers me. She claims it would shred her sense of privacy and that if I can't trust her we should just end the marriage.

The million dollar question is: What are you going to do about it?

Of course it is easy to tell you to go get a divorce if she won't comply. But we all know that it is not that easy. But we also know that this can not be left unresolved, and the sad truth is that she IS putting you on an eventual path to divorce with this behavior. You may not file today or tomorrow, but if her defiance continues, and you are not willing to just "shut up and take it", then you will eventually find yourself asking why you stayed around as long as you did.

It takes two committed people to attempt reconciliation---and there is no guarantees for success. There is only a guaranteed chance of failure if the wayward mindset does not go away. And you have to be prepared for this. You have to let your wife know that while there is no ultimatum at this moment, that she is guaranteeing your loss of interest in the marriage with her current behavior. This message is the easiest for you to explain to her---because it will be an eventuality whether you like it or not. Your marriage will die a slow, painful death.

You can't fix her. She has a lot of issues, and she has to address them herself---most certainly with counseling. But you can let her know in no uncertain terms that you will not continue in this current direction. Then start emotionally detaching.

Read up on the 180. Start putting yourself first, because you need to get out of this infidelity...with or without her. Keep posting with as much information as you are comfortable with, because the more that we know, the more that we can possibly help.

Good luck.



BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)

I think the excellent post from jb3199 just sums up the situation perfectly. To some extent many marriages turn into a power struggle for dominance and if your wife gets away with her current attitude she will feel in control. Incidentally, she will lose all respect for you as a consequence.

Its likely she had a PA with this guy and until she gives you the full details, and shows some true remorse, your relationship will continue to deteriorate. You have to draw a line in the sand and demand total honesty and full access to her communication devices, or the marriage is going to die a slow death. Her arrogant pride is the first thing that needs to go.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bikingguy
Member
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)

Not giving you access to her phone is not "privacy". Some more experienced members here explained that privacy is closing the bathroom door while you poop, Secrecy is not providing open access to all. And a good M cannot have secrets. Yes Christmas and birthdays are a little harder since I have access to all her comminucations, but that is a very small price to pay for WW to earn back my trust.


Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 670 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)

She''s counting on your inherent desire to protect your family and keep it intact to emotionally intimidate you.

When she says this if you can''t trust her you should just end the marriage what she is really saying is that she wants you to back off if you don''t want to D. The threats of self-harm come from a similar place. It''s manipulative and calculating no matter how upset she seems at the time.

NC is non-negotiable imho
IC is non-negotiable (MC can happen later)

Her argument that nothing happened when OM''s wife was there is dubious at best. Unfortunately I''ve heard of too many times when something did happen under those very circumstances.

Bottom line is she broke the trust, she needs to do the work to earn it back.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3785 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)

Pleasantly surprised at all the helpful and supportive replies. I am obviously doing this at work so the BS doesn't see or find out. Aren't I the little secret keeper now....

As for comments concerning her suicide talk, I have taken her to hospitals and she is IC for her mental and physical health issues. Lately (last 9 months or so) it seems to be another defense mechanism to get me to back off.

Since D-Day I have spent considerable time getting information on the OM and OMW. Work history, current employment, work emails, social network accounts; but other than the first angry short email to OM (which there has not been a reply) I have done nothing. NC is NC right? I don't know if there is anything to be gained by contacting the OM wife.

I am fully aware it most likely wasn't "just kissing. Because neither of us (OM and WS) could go through with it" which is what she tells me. I went to the doctor last week. No news is good news. I am having a paternity test done, although I don't think the results will change how much I love my daughter.

I am focusing on my daughter and myself and my job and activities and hobbies I enjoy. I am emotionally detaching until my WS decides to stop keeping secrets, but hey, I am a nice guy and will let her poop with door closed. I guess it will come down to either living with it, or going for the D the way things are now....hopefully by implementing the 180 the WS will wake up. She goes from showing signs of remorse to acting like everything is ok. She never initiates a conversation about the EA/PA.

I am seeing a counselor next week, feeling like I need help put all this out in front of a person that kind of knows me (not that I don't appreciate what y'all have said, because I really do) I have worked with him before and he is aware of my WS other challenges as well. The month after the trip and OM visit my mother died. The month after that we found out we were expecting a child (who is 9 months old now). Processing this information on top off all the other stuff is blowing my mind.

The part that really bothers me to this day is that when she took this trip, she was really doing well with her depression and health issues, and I was so proud of her for taking a trip "all by herself." I helped with flight itineraries. I even changed her ticket so she could stay 4 days longer with the "OM and wife and kid" and go sightseeing. I took half a day off from work to meet her at the airport, because I wanted too! I was so proud of her. Shortly after her return, she informed me that the OM and son would be visiting for 2 days and a night the next month. I was happy to reciprocate the hospitality that the OM and his family had shown my wife. Instead I got a CC bill for over $800 for a marriage vacation.

Thanks again for your suggestions and replies...it feels good to read them.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)

(((Michman)))

You have your head on straight for sure. As a Vet here, I do want to offer a few words of advice to you. This is in your best intrest, not necissarily the best intrest of your M.

Your wife is using her depression as a manipulation tool, and if she doesn't get her head out of RainbowLand then you need to prepare yourself for battle. Meaning this....Every damn time she threatens Suicide you need to get it documented, either by EMS, Police, ER, or her Psych. If she truly is unstable then she needs help, if she is using it as tool to manipulate, then it's going to look really bad on her ability to parent, and create a safe stable environment for your baby.

Next, and I tell everyone this, and did it myself. Go see a lawyer, find out what your rights are, her responsiblities are, and how things would play out should you choose to D. She is already throwing it out there daring you to do this as a way to get you to back off, fear of the unknown can be paralyzing, and knowing how and what you can do will help you.

The Dr's visit, and the IC are a great start, because no matter how strong you are, and how smart you are, your self esteem takes a pretty good hit when you find out the one person in the world that is supposed to be there for you isn't. It SUCKS.

I would share the information you have obtained with the AP's wife. She too deserves to know, and if both of you are paying attention to what they are doing, it may limit any further communication, or taking the A underground. Put a keylogger on her computer, snoop around, see if you can find a second cell. For her to just stop, but refusing to send a NC letter tells me she hasn't stopped.

Lastly know that her choices to engage in this behavior have NOTHING to do with you, your M, or your ability to be a great spouse. Do NOT let her paint you into that corner.

(((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

First night of no sleep.....I feel like I've been punched in the stomach 50 times...can't eat either.

I found out her Facebook login, took almost 300 screenshots of messages.

OM-confirmation of PA. Turns out he was probably using WS as revenge for AP's infidelity. This did not shock me. But it confirms the lie she told me about "just kissing and not being able to go through with it."

Saw messages to two friends of WS wanting to establish FWB relationship. They both shot her down. This was in June of this year.

Chat/picture/videos of an apparently online only (the guy is from UK or Australia)thing. No wonder my cell plan exceeded the data all summer. Apparently they connected at some adult website. This lasted from july to august.

There was also talk of an "almost 3-some" with female friend of ours (she's younger, and we're helping her out with her cell phone bill, she's on our plan) and some other guy.


How could WS be so stupid to leave that stuff in there for 11 days after I found out about the OM?

Is there a way to get a dump of text messages from my WS phone and our "friend" to see hers as well?


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
trynhard
Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

How could WS be so stupid to leave that stuff in there for 11 days after I found out about the OM?

Because your W is not a healthy person.

Is there a way to get a dump of text messages from my WS phone and our "friend" to see hers as well?

Do you really need to see any more? Not really. But save those text so you can protect your assets if needed. You can take a picture of those text?

Today, These are big questions you must answer.

Do you want your M?
Do you have it within yourself to forgive?

Once you answer those questions.. And please take your time because your feelings today can trick you. IMO, only then can you can proceed.

Because if you go bullying right now you are going to drive her farther away vs bring her back into the M.

Right now.. You can 180 her until you get your answers.. Have your read about the 180? It is a time to be a Man.. Try hard to focus your attention on other things... You are going to have to learn ways to change your thoughts. Thoughts come before feelings. You stayed up all night because of the endless thoughts.. which is because you are in grief. It is a natural brain healer. It is hard but You can do it as time goes on. Expect this to be rough for a few months.

She is going to have a consequence to pay. She must make herself worthy of you now. She might not be willing to pay the price.

Oh yeh.. Know this.. Sometimes, a M can be far better after infidelity.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:32 AM, November 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2674 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

Being married to someone suffering from chronic depression for 9 years and probably many more years in the future, is exceedingly distressing. Now she has committed adultery probably numerous times and has made quite a few unsuccessful attempts besides, do you have any obligation to remain with this woman?

Divorce her and free yourself of both her treachery and her ongoing, chronic depression. That should be her problem from now on, leaving you free to start a new relationship with someone mentally healthy and loyal.

She may need help and assistance with her mental condition, but in that case don't betray the one person who has stayed with you all those years. I repeat, you have no remaining obligation to stay in this marriage if your wife cannot be loyal and true to her wedding vows; a small price to pay for all the support and comfort you have given.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, November 14th (Thursday)

Divorce her and free yourself of both her treachery and her ongoing, chronic depression. That should be her problem from now on, leaving you free to start a new relationship with someone mentally healthy and loyal.

THIS^^^^^X 1000%

OMG!! Please don't set yourself up for years of misery.

I love LOVE, I am not the person to give up on love. I stayed with Mr. Happy after he betrayed me for years...But his remorse is palpable.

But with this blatant trickery and lies and still trying to have 'privacy'. Don't let her disrespect you.

Cut your loses sir. Don't waste the best years of your life on someone who treats you like a chump.

Strength and clarity my friend.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

Your WW sounds like a walking time bomb that blew up. She has been cheating for a while, manipulating you with real and feigned suicide threats, and taking your good will for granted.

You need to get serious about deciding if you even want to be married to a person like that. Your gut will tell you.

HBH


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

Oh, and her privacy? That has been explained in a previous post. Passwords, phone and computer records, etc. are not "private" in a marriage. It should all be easily accessible at any time.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, November 15th (Friday)

She doesn't know I know and thoroughly examined her Facebook (I know how to get archived and deleted "messages" FAcebook archives them and there is a small hyperlink 'get archived messages' same for the deleted messages when you use the full site version of facebook on a smartphone). She doesn't know I know it was a PA, and her 2 requests for FWB, and other online activities. There was a NC message sent to the OM, 2 full days after I demanded NC.

I have my first IC today. He has helped me through issues in the past, supporting me while I support my wife, helping me with grief after sudden deaths of my parents, etc. End of the day appt so I know he will let me vent and get it all out. He's good, and will give me some tips, strategies and advice to go forward.

I am going to confront her with what I know. I just don't know how or when. Part of me wants to just have a nice relaxing weekend, spend time with my daughter, and catch up on the yardwork before the white stuff starts flying.

I know some of you are "get the D!!!! Save yourself!!!" but I have a daughter to consider. And no matter what I think of my WS right now, she does love her daughter and is a good mother (until I find out otherwise). I don't feel like I'm in a proper state of mind to make the "decision" right now. I will talk with an attorney next week to get more information.

@trynhard on the first page asked if you can pictures of the text on a phone, yes. If you have an iphone (which is what I'm familiar with) if you hold down the "home" button and the "lock" button at the same time for a second or two, the phone takes a screenshot of whatever is on your screen. You can then forward the photo to an email account or an online photo site like flickr, picasa, photobucket etc.

It's been helpful to read all of your posts. I value your opinions and your input, and I feel your intentions are good.

[This message edited by Michman at 7:52 AM, November 15th (Friday)]


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, November 15th (Friday)

I agree, taking your time to decide makes sense at this stage.

Remember, since she has threatened suicide and is chronically depressed, [documented], you will get full custody of your daughter in the event of separation or divorce. Also you may be able restrict your WW to supervised visitation given her unstable personality.

You sound such a mature, forgiving person. However you need to be fair to yourself and your daughter. Can't be healthy for her to have a parent like this.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, November 15th (Friday)

I don't feel like I'm in a proper state of mind to make the "decision" right now.
You don't have to make any decisions now. You will find that although people come from different perspectives here at SI, no one will coerce you or disrespect you for your decisions. IT IS YOUR LIFE. Speaking to a lawyer is good, whether or not you decide to R or D. Knowledge is power: not power over the other person, but power over your own life.

From what I've read over the years on SI (and what I've felt myself through the journey) you will waver from R to D and back to R several times. Even people who are actively in the D process wish they weren't D-ing, but were in R, but they are D-ing because their WS isn't repentant, or is actively in an A still.

Remember that no matter what you decide today, you can reevaluate the situation tomorrow and change your mind accordingly.

I'm sorry if you felt I was trying to pressure you. I wasn't. I've just read countless times here where the WS cake eats while the BS suffers until the BS decides they won't tolerate living in a M with a cheating spouse for one more day. Then, almost miraculously, the WS finds remorse and realizes how much their BS always meant to them.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, November 15th (Friday)

No apologies needed. I appreciate your experience and viewpoint. Hopefully some IC for me will help with my decisions too. I feel pretty good with what I accomplished this week FOR ME!!! STD testing, starting IC, and talking to a lawyer next Monday.

I really do appreciate what y'all have said, and all the articles and other postings I have read this week too. Thank you!!


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Completely failed this weekend. Forgot I even knew what the 180 is and how to do it. It was caused by the humiliation I had when I handed the lab tech my urine and lab order sheet for STDs.

I spoke to her friend that knew about the stuff, and she really felt bad because she was trying to get her to stop this behavior, and she felt bad she never told me anything....I told her to only tell me if she felt what she was doing was placing my daughter in the presence of her while it was happening...IDGAF what my BS is doing anymore.

I could not stop looking up cell phone numbers. And of course I found more evidence of my BS affairs. Someone she met from the internet was in our home last tuesday! Thank god my daughter was at grandmas...

I stayed on the couch all weekend (my choice, it's actually more comfortable, plus my BS has a cold/flu so I don't want it), slept with the blanket they had had sex on (my WS told me Sunday afternoon) after I requested all the stuff be thrown out.

Just too much betrayal, disrespect. I turned around on the way home from work this morning because I had a "feeling" and thank goodness I found no strangers at home, especially since my daughter is there.

I am driving myself crazy! Paranoia! I want to know everything but I almost cannot stand it. She has only been forthcoming to the affairs I know about and has not really told me anything new!

I'm consulting/calling a lawyer today.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Your wife is obviously engaging in trickle truth, which doesn't equate to remorse; just damage control. If you reconcile then you will have to deal with your WW's obvious addiction to these numerous sexual affairs and the likelihood that she will betray you again in the future. This is not a solitary transgression its a hard to give up addiction; its much more difficult to end this behavior and be faithful to your partner. The word faithful doesn't seem to be in her vocabulary.

As I mentioned earlier, you have an opportunity to end this marriage to a serial cheater who also suffers from severe depression. You have a chance to start again and rid yourself of two major problems not one.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Someone she met from the internet was in our home last tuesday!
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. You cannot R with someone who won't stop cheating and lying.

IDGAF what my BS is doing anymore.
This is the 180. When you begin to want physical closeness, remember that you just had a full panel of STD tests, and if you are intimate with her before she stops cheating, you are going to have to be humiliated by getting another STD panel done. Remember where her mouth and V have been on "whoever stranger," and that you will be exposed to whatever she was exposed to.

HBH


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)

First good news in the last couple of weeks:

IM STD FREE!!!


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)

Yay!!! Just because you are, doesn't mean she is. Be careful!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2794 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)

(((Michman)))

I know some of you are "get the D!!!! Save yourself!!!" but I have a daughter to consider. And no matter what I think of my WS right now, she does love her daughter and is a good mother (until I find out otherwise).

I totally get it,I do - more than you know. However, when I read this:

And of course I found more evidence of my BS affairs. Someone she met from the internet was in our home last tuesday! Thank god my daughter was at grandmas...

I am sorry, but that is not what a good mother that loves her daughter does. This isn't using a babysitter to have an affair, and by that I don't mean the pain and suffering is necessarily worse for you. This is incredibly dangerous behavior that puts your entire family at risk. What if she picked a random psycho that killed her at your home, and you or your DD with grandma happened to walk in? Who is to say anyone she solicits won't return on their own with a more sordid agenda? This kind of infidelity literally makes my blood run cold.

I know you are in a horrific place, and it is NOT your fault. I know you don't want to make any decisions about R or D for a while, and that is wise. But I plead with you, when you go see your L, see him/her soon, and please ask about ALL the available custody options that are feasible in your case. Ask if legal proof of her ongoings would have any bearing, and what means you need to take to get them. Do you really want your DD to have unsupervised visitation with someone who solicits sex with anonymous people from the internet in your home?

It may very well be that the courts don't care - it is the case in some states - and if that's true you need to know that no matter what path you take. But if there is any chance evidence of what she has done, may still be doing, and will likely do if you don't stay together, you want to have that evidence in your corner. She may take that choice of R vs. D from you anyway, especially if the D and custody laws are in her favor.

There is a reference thread for BS who have WS into prostitutes and anonymous encounters here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=502528&HL=32550

that will walk you through the general SI wisdom from the perspective of those who have been where you are now.

And I would strongly consider a boundary that includes major, intensive therapy (if not an inpatient program) for your WS to stay in the home as well as for you to consider R.

Keep posting. You will get good advice and support here. We will help you through it and give you options you can't see now.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)

(((Michman)))

I know some of you are "get the D!!!! Save yourself!!!" but I have a daughter to consider. And no matter what I think of my WS right now, she does love her daughter and is a good mother (until I find out otherwise).

I totally get it,I do - more than you know. However, when I read this:

And of course I found more evidence of my BS affairs. Someone she met from the internet was in our home last tuesday! Thank god my daughter was at grandmas...

I am sorry, but that is not what a good mother that loves her daughter does. This isn't using a babysitter to have an affair, and by that I don't mean the pain and suffering is necessarily worse for you. This is incredibly dangerous behavior that puts your entire family at risk. What if she picked a random psycho that killed her at your home, and you or your DD with grandma happened to walk in? Who is to say anyone she solicits won't return on their own with a more sordid agenda? This kind of infidelity literally makes my blood run cold.

I know you are in a horrific place, and it is NOT your fault. I know you don't want to make any decisions about R or D for a while, and that is wise. But I plead with you, when you go see your L, see him/her soon, and please ask about ALL the available custody options that are feasible in your case. Ask if legal proof of her ongoings would have any bearing, and what means you need to take to get them. Do you really want your DD to have unsupervised visitation with someone who solicits sex with anonymous people from the internet in your home?

It may very well be that the courts don't care - it is the case in some states - and if that's true you need to know that no matter what path you take. But if there is any chance evidence of what she has done, may still be doing, and will likely do if you don't stay together, you want to have that evidence in your corner. She may take that choice of R vs. D from you anyway, especially if the D and custody laws are in her favor.

There is a reference thread for BS who have WS into prostitutes and anonymous encounters here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=502528&HL=32550

that will walk you through the general SI wisdom from the perspective of those who have been where you are now.

And I would strongly consider a boundary that includes major, intensive therapy (if not an inpatient program) for your WS to stay in the home as well as for you to consider R.

Keep posting. You will get good advice and support here. We will help you through it and give you options you can't see now.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
still2suspicious
Member
Member # 31722
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)

she does love her daughter and is a good mother

Someone she met from the internet was in our home last tuesday

!

MM- she can't be both!! NOBODY brings a stranger into their home, AND be a good parent. Her wants are above all else, even the safety of your beautiful baby girl!! I blew a gasket on this one!!!

Please read Abbondad and Allatsea's stories. (abb is in D/S, and aas is in JFO) Their stories, unfortuantely, are heart-breaking. BUT they have gotten so strong. Their children are #1, as yours is to you.

I have to laugh, that after dday, and her wanting her privacy, that she is stupid enough to keep everything! You'd think her first reaction would be to delete ALL incriminating evidence! At least that's what my idiot H did!!

You are just at the very beginning MM. You will come out on the other side, maybe a little more bruised, but we are all here for you.

Lean on us. 40K+ can't all be wrong

Sending strength.


Me: BS
Him: WH
DDay: LTEA

Posts: 1281 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From:
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)

Glad you took it upon yourself to get tested. Just one way to start to regain control on your own life.
Don't be intimate without protection no matter what she says or does. If you have sex use protection until she can produce paperwork proving she is disease free.

Now this meeting up with strangers thing is quite honestly scary shit. She is NOT being a good mom doing this a good mom would risk hepatitis, hpv, aids, rape, or murder. Seriously you know as good as the rest of us any yahoo wierdo, crackpot that has a computer can arrange a meet up.

Please make sure that you are gathering evidence. Even if you live in a no fault state, the DFS, will be very concerned about a child being left alone with a woman who is making these choices.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

Put on the happy face for the holidays. Told her parents about her and what she has been doing. Probably because they would be heavily involved in any custody arrangement. They are the best grand parents and I trust them with my daughter. Went to the UM v OSU game with trusted friends and had an EXCELLENT time despite the final outcome. Feel like I am moving out of the shock/denial phase and entering anger phase. Continuing to 180 her and IC for me.

I spoke to a couple of attorney's regarding the D. Scare the shit out of me. My counselor doesn't think I'm in the right place to make that decision yet. I"m in no hurry. I have made copies of all the information I found out and am keeping them in several places. I will add to the file as I discover more. The state I live in is no fault, but the court will take the things she's done into consideration regarding spousal support and child custody.

Looking forward to spending the Christmas season with my daughter and not buying BS a damn thing.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)

Is there a "spinning wheels" phase? LOL. She has deleted almost everything off of her phone and email. I have a program ready to go to recover that stuff tomorrow. I need the information to help put the puzzle together, and also to gather information in case of a D. After that I am taking off the detective badge. I have already spent too much time doing what should have been told to me after the initial discovery of the initial affair. Plus the lawyers will do any additional investigating for me:p I live in a no-fault state, but the actions of the WS can be used in child custody and spousal support, etc.

She has spent the last few days at her parents, and I have been able to thoroughly examine two of her email accounts. She knows that I did and I don't care. Also went through her nightstand, dresser, and closet, under the bed. Nothing shocking, just copies of email addresses, contacts, a couple of business cards, etc. Well it would have been shocking a few months ago, but knowing what I already know, it wasn't a big deal.

Found out some other things. Nearly all of these sickos on internet hookup sites use a yahoo.com email account. They use seperate apps for chatting, texting, photo, video sharing (Kik and skype). If you have an iphone there is a "track my iphone" tool in the icloud.

Going back through my thread I was shocked and amazed by the accuracy of your posts. Anyone here the "real" Ms. Cleo? Unfortunately, there are a lot of experts here.

I am frustrated that although she says she wants to work it out, she is answering any question with "I dont know" or "I dont remember" and now that she's deleted almost everything off her phone, there is nothing to help her remember.

At my last IC, we talked about D. He said what does that look like right now? My answer was that I am standing at the end of a tunnel, and I see the light. It is small, but there is only 1 or 2 turns off the track to D. I feel like there is not much more time before I'm moving forward with the D. Especially since she is not forthcoming, has only gone to 1 IC, cancelled 1 appt, and has 1 tomorrow (who know if she goes). I get the impression she just wants it all to go away.

My IC has also been pretty adamant about not contacting OP spouses. And to be truthful, I'm at the point where I really want to torture the OM in the first PA. Really stupid immature stuff? I typed an email along the lines of "I'm sending your wife an email for Christmas" and "You owe me for half the trip and babysitting your son" He works for a college hockey team so I said "looking forward to seeing you in XXXXXXX, bring cash" Also found out about a trip to Florida there were in the planning stages of taking when my mother died and we found out we were expecting our first child. Thanks Mom and daughter! They screwed up there sex trip!!!! It's just a draft and I haven't sent it.

I also found out that some friends of my BS know about the first affair. She told them that I was cheating on her (which is a lie). At one poiint I told my BS that she had to come clean to restore my reputation. At least tell them I did not cheat on her. She still hasn't after over a week.

I have told one real life friend about what has been going on. He's been a great help, but I have closer friends who are wondering what the hell is going on with me. I still feel like I need to keep the whole thing secret. I feel like telling people about the A is like telling people I failed as a spouse. I know in my head that I didn't.

So, any advice on getting through multiple family Christmas's?


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
reallyscrewedup7
Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, December 12th (Thursday)

MichMan,

Sorry brother for what you are going through. It sucks. I wish I had a magic script to write for you to ease the pain and burden, but I do not.

I can tell you a few things that will make life better moving forward. EXPOSE. I am dead serious when I say your IC is absolutely wrong about this. The theory that you will ruin another family is so full of fuckeduppedness is not even funny. OM's BW deserves to know the truth so she can make rational decisions about her life, safety and the well being of her children. Your IC's conclusion is not just wrong from a healthy and safety perspective, it is just wrong period.

Second, do not threaten. DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE YOU ARE EXPOSING. Do not blackmail the OM. Nothing good will come from these efforts. Revenge is a pointless game. However, simply contact the BW(s) and give them a short and concise summary of the betrayal, enough information to convince them you are not a nut job (BUT NEVER EVER EVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES) and tell her (them) you will not contact them again unless they initiate to get further information. Then move on.

Next, find a different IC.

Then figure out which attorney you thought would be your best advocate and do what they say to protect yourself, your assets and your children. I am not saying you need to file the divorce claim tomorrow, but I am saying there are many things you need to do to protect yourself and your failure to do so will have ramifications. Your wife is all kinds of messed up. And if it gets to divorce, I guarantee you either she will capitulate over guilt (and you will have to drive the boat entirely) or she will fight like a crazed shedevil and try to destroy you in every way possible. Either way, you need to be taking action now to prepare yourself.

This is a hard road no matter how you travel it. Just realize that this is a great bunch of people with a lot of knowledge. Please use them to help yourself heal and get stronger.


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 899 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, December 12th (Thursday)

Because of this...
My IC has also been pretty adamant about not contacting OP spouses.
...I agree with reallyscrewedup7 that you should find a different IC.

With regards to informing OM's wife do NOT tell your WW in advance when you're doing. Considering your WW has already deleted messages be prepared that OM has been given a heads up and told his BW a story. I would not be surprised if she hasn't been lied to and told you're crazy and delusional. If/when you decide to talk to OM's BW then 1) keep it to the facts only, simply inform her and 2) have some evidence (that you're comfortable with sharing) ready to show her to back up your word.

Your WW is clearly still unremorseful. Maybe she'll come out of the fog, maybe she won't. What matters is that you take care of yourself...and protect yourself first.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3785 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, December 12th (Thursday)

Welcome back MichMan,

I was wondering how things were going for you. I have to agree with the get thee to an Attorney immediately. Find out what your rights are for separation and Divorce.
You need to get organized and protect yourself financially and mentally.

I too have to say I totally disagree with IC on not exposing the A's with the other spouses involved. If it were you, and you suspected something wouldn't you want someone to tell you if they knew, or had proof?

Stay strong.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Jesu
Member
Member # 36422
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, December 12th (Thursday)

The part that really bothers me to this day is that when she took this trip, she was really doing well with her depression and health issues, and I was so proud of her for taking a trip "all by herself." I helped with flight itineraries. I took half a day off from work to meet her at the airport, because I wanted too! I was so proud of her.

It really stings big time...doesn't it? Pretty much what happened with my WSO. Ended up cheating on me with 2 OM on her vacation. I encouraged her to go alone, and was extremely happy and proud of her. She just betrayed me, humiliated me and lied to my face.

Boy was I an idiot!

Also, my WSO has BPD, has tried to commit suicide several times, and has on going mental health issues...so I can relate completely. It's tough!

[This message edited by Jesu at 8:01 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]


Me: BSO 39
Her: WSO 29
Together: 9 years
Married?: No
Children?: No
OM: A friend of a friend
DD#1: June 18th 2012
Many more DD after TT
PA#1: 1 week in Nov/Dec 2010, which led to a long distance EA
R: ?

Posts: 608 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Oz
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, December 13th (Friday)

Part of the problem with exposing the A to the OPs spouse is that the guy she met over the internet is a ghost, and the BS has not been forthcoming with information. I can't believe the name she gives me (last name of smith) and all I have to go on is his cell phone number, 1 email address, and the name, and that he is a fireman in a city of about 170,000 that has 1 main dept and 3 "suburban" departments. this guy also knows where I live, knows I work during the day. Supposedly he is married with 4 kids, and also works on a family farm with other members of his family. I have a couple people in law enforcement I could ask to help, but I know that legally and ethically they would not be able too.

I probably will out her old high school buddy fling she had in March '12. I have text conversations of the setup and I have facebook conversations of the aftermath, and emails about their next rendezvous that never happened. I'll probably wait until his next roadtrip.

So I asked my BS about a random photo I found on her phone of a guy that I had no idea who it was. She couldn't tell me anything, said she didn't know. I said, "Come on, you took the photo, he is centered and looking at the camera. Who is this guy? Please tell me." And she repeats the Idon't know and then deletes the picture. I said just because you delete the photo doesn't mean it just goes away.

When I asked to hook up her phone to the computer to recover what has been deleted. She refuses. She says I'm being irrational. She says I should ask my IC to see if it is rational. She says her mother thinks I'm being irrational (although Im 100% sure she doesn't know the whole story)

Damn right I'm irrational right now. MY BS made me this way.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, December 13th (Friday)

Dude she is light years away from getting this, and what she has done. The fact that she refuses transparancy and still is lying directly to your face, knowing full well you know she is lying speaks volumes. Not only that she doesn't get it, but that she doesn't want to get it either.

Who cares what she is telling good old mom, we all know she is getting fed half truths, and mom probably has her veryown special psych issues that aren't being effectively dealt with. (I had a proffesor that always said it takes 5 generations of true dysfunction to make a schizophrenic, and while I don't agree with that, I do agree that dysfunction breeds dysfunction, and on and on).

You seriously need to work on protecting yourself.

(((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

And I will. I'll be spending my holiday break gathering papers, information, and a meeting or two, continuing IC.

I am going to out the first A. Very simple email with one or two screenshots of their conversations. I am going to continue working to discovering the OM from the internet AFF site. I feel like as long as I don't know who he is and where his family lives he really has me over a barrel if I try to contact OMW.

One thing that has really been bothering me the last couple days is< "Why am I the only one suffering?" Everyone else in this had their fun, or are blissfully ignorant. Probably looking forward to spending the holidays as a happy little campers, while I ride the "put on a happy face" roller coaster. Oh sure my WS is suffering a bit, but at least she had the excitement of all the online and real affairs and sex out of it.

My IC suggested that a meeting between my WS, her IC, my IC and me (4 people)might be helpful. What would be realistic things to talk about or goals at this meeting? Why my need for imformation is driving me crazy? Because she deleted everything or has told me nothing. Give me some ideas, because I have none? I basically feel like if her and her IC try to explain how some post partum depression, disassociation compartmentalization blah blah blah I will just walk out.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
AlwaysTooNice
Member
Member # 41701
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

MM, first of all *hugs* and know that you're a very strong person to be dealing with all of this and still keep cool, calm, and collected. I, too, have been dealing with a marriage with "too many issues" then discovered "casual encounters" infidelity. (H doesn't know I know yet.) It is such a shock to the system. It's a slap in the face to find out all of this information about As while you've been struggling to deal with the everyday crap that your difficult marriage brings. You aren't alone. And you've already proven your strength. Your actions so far have been great. I hope that as you continue on your path that the decisions come clearly to you.

I have a friend with BPD with suicidal tendencies. She's used her mental health disorders as a free pass for years. Her H tried everything to help her. She never finally snapped out of it until he left for a separation. She's finally now taking responsibility for her actions. I'm telling you this because you still sound very much in love with your wife. If you want to stay together andd R, it is possible, even though her actions right now scream the opposite. However, it may take years of repeated heartbreak for you before she finally comes out of the fog.

The good news is that you don't have to make a decision right now. If you practice the 180 and remain in control of the situation, you can take your time making your final decision regarding D or R. In the meantime, take care of yourself. Focus on your health and your love for your daughter.


Me: 25 SAHM Him: 27
DDay 1: Sept 2009 - rugswept
Married: Oct 2010
DDay 2: Nov 2013 - confronted 3 weeks later & separated
False R. Filed for D Mar 2014

Posts: 66 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: SE USA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Not sure what you would hope to get out of that joint multiple IC meeting, I mean you have a spouse that is still actively lying and hiding. How are you supposed to heal and heal your M if she is continuing to undermine everything?

You need to present her with consequences, and be willing to scorched earth on this situation. I really see that as the only possible way of saving this.

See the attorney, file for legal S, or D.
Then tell her the only way that you are willing to try to make this work is for her to drop all her bullshit.
Depression, Bipolar, Schizoaffective disorders are not excuses for cheating.

Then present your list of what you need for real R. If she isn't willing to play along then proceed full force.

I'm all for R'ing, and I think in some situations that it takes an extreme measure on the BS part to really get the WS to wake the F up, and join us all back in the land of reality. Sometimes it doesn't, and D is the only option you are left with, but I find that to be a much better option than pretending it's all good, and rugsweeping this, and living with the fear of the other shoe to fall so to speak.

You are smart, strong, and capable. You will get through this.

((((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Exactly as Tushnurse and others have mentioned..Excellent advice..
I am still living in an in-house separation with my WH until I find a viable way to divorce him without his ruining me financially..

I tried R and counseling..The counselors we went to were more focused on saving the marriage, not addressing my trauma nor giving my WH any 2X4's for his cheating..So I felt a lot of blame..

R ended when WH let me know I wasn't changing enough to meet his needs at a speed he wanted..I demanded that he move out..WH said that he wouldn't, stated the house was his too..By that time he wasn't working( getting paid long term unemployment)..

I couldn't, STILL can't support two households..WH's long term unemployment ended a little while ago..He is getting into a very rough and tight financial situation and is being forced to look for work..Once he is self supporting, I can probably file for D and not have WH considered as my dependent..

My point is that In-house separation can be an option if you can't D right away for whatever reason, financial or emotional..

In house separation is an option that sucks the big one but it is a much better option than pretending "it's all good" so to speak...

Pretending it is all good when it is not is rough on the psyche and the soul..

Any counselor who doesn't immediately confront your WW for the damage left in the wake of her behavior (and the behavior itself) isn't worth your hard earned money IMHO..

P.S..

I just read your thread a little more thoroughly..Mental health issues are definitely not a free pass...And in-house separation for any length of time is not a good option in your case..Filing for D is the best option before she does something stupid to herself leaving you stuck in an M you don't want for the foreseeable future....

After the D, someday, your WW may come out of the fog..Or she may not..

There may be hope for some type of SAFE loving relationship between you and WW ( after a D ) if she has made massive deep changes in herself for the better and you are still available..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:21 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Michman, part of the therapy for WH and I involved a 4 person session you were talking about. This was part of WH giving me his full disclosure of all his activities (AKA on SI as timeline). There were a number of reasons they did it this way.

First, because each of us needed professional support to get through the process, because the kind of history revealed is very traumatic for the BS and super shameful for the WS. Second, to keep us on track with getting through it, not getting sidetracked, and not letting either one of us start raging, blaming, etc or anything that would not be productive. Third, because it gives YOUR IC a chance to see what the WS is saying, and her IC to verify some info with you - and I can guarantee you she is lying through her teeth to hers and any MC you may be seeing.

Given what you have revealed about the therapists involved thus far, and being so early in the game for you...I really question if they will handle it well and if it is the right thing for you at this stage in the game. When WH and I did ours, it was a YEAR after DD, exposure to massive TT and false R, and lots of therapy - and would be followed up with a lie detector test. It was part of a very established therapy program developed by experts in sexual addiction. And EVEN then there was some omissions of truth by my WS. I cringe to think your ICs think that your WS is going to be anything close to truthful and productive right now if they all really know what's up with her. Unless they are trying to force you two into a intervention of sorts - which YOU should be fully informed of that plan if that is the case.

Also, in our session, it wasn't just him being able to finally dump all his shit sandwich on me and feel better he finally came clean. I was given the opportunity to give a statement, AKA as an Impact Letter that addressed how his actions affected me and our family. I'm not a therapist, but I think that is a critical component to the kind of meeting they are suggesting to you. YOU should be able to express how your and your kiddo's life have been blown to hell as a result of her past and current choices. She should hear and see what the consequences of her actions have been.

PLEASE take care in collecting evidence for custody. Make sure it being done in the most legal of ways - a lot of what it sounds like you are doing may not be admitted as legal evidence in a court of law. That is not to say what you have collected won't be useful - I know in my case I used it as a bargaining chip for many things - but if your state actually cares about this kind of behavior in regards to custody, you have a very rare opportunity to protect your kid.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, December 20th (Friday)

Had a really bad night Tuesday night. How do I stop thinking about this shit? How do I stop wondering what happened? I hacked into her AFF profile. She had deleted her profile, but I was able to see the messages from a few different guys. The only silver lining I guess is that she has had no interaction on that site since DD#2 +3 days, which was when she deleted everything on her profile, phone, texts, "most" of the emails, photos, kik app.

Everything she has confirmed or denied I've had to spoon feed her a few details to get her started. Even now my dreams at night (I had not been a dreamer before this shit)are like more real mind movies.

We are leaving tomorrow for "her" family Christmas weekend. I have another IC Monday, I'll need it.

Thanks for all your support and words of advice. Iam only gathering things through her email accounts, which she has given me permission to go through.

[This message edited by Michman at 1:03 PM, December 20th (Friday)]


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Wished there was more to tell, but there is not....lol

Tedious holidays. Spent NYE on the couch, her up in the bedroom. Put a hapy face on for the family christmas's. Shortly after New Years she "accidentally" reactivated one of her adult dating websites. She tried to convince me it was someone else controlling the account, went as far to accuse me of doing it. (step back 1). She has since made a little effort as to getting off of these sites....

Couple of days later, she went out with a FOM. Then WW had FOM lie about where they went...stupid really, she told FOM that I said she was not allowed to go to a particular bar--which I have never done. (step back 2)and loss of a FOM in my book.

About a week after that she tried to contact the W of her adult friend finder FB....or at least called the home number. She said she "googled" it, but I spent significant time googling this guy and never found that particular phone number, even with paid services. (step back 3)

Personally, I've been through stages of anger, rage, and indifference. Mostly indifference. I focus my positive time and energy on my daughter and myself. After the baby goes to bed it's back to mr. indifference.

After my meetings and calls to lawyers, D scares the living sh!t out of me. Financially screwed. We've been married for 10 years, and she has been on disability due to physical and mental health reasons for almost 9 years, and I don't expect it to end any time soon. Her long term disability and Social Security disability (and now the child's benefit)= to about 48% of our income. I provide the rest and also the health insurance. And we got the usual mortgage, 2 car loans, 1 student loan, and only 1 more credit card to pay and cancel. But when looking back at what living with this person is like, I don't know if I can be a good father while living with WS. Her behavior hasn't really changed. She talks like she wants the R. But whenever I try to talk about it, it's always "not tonight" or "I cant live like this much longer" which to me basically says she's not willing to help me heal. She seems to think all I need is time and eventually "it" will all go away. I feel like I'm in this limbo state where I have two really bad choices....stay with a crazy bitch who has lied and betrayed me; or consciously make the decision to live a less "comfortable" life. I am causually looking at apartments if that tells you anything...

No one to talk to about it either. My parents have both died, which I don't even know if I would tell them what happened even if they were alive. None of my friends are divorced. And I am reluctant to tell one or two; I guess I am still trying to protect my marriage and I am embarrassed by my WW actions. And in the remote chance of a R that I don't want my friends to know or put pressure on me one way or the other. It seems the lawyers all want to go for the D. "It's important to file first due to possible advantages if it goes to court." WW parents know some of it...but blood is thicker than water.

Thanks for the vent.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Are you in a no-fault state?

I am in a no fault state..

The lawyers I consulted all told me that it does not matter much who files first..

My situation is that I will be 60 by the time I file and a D is final...No custody issues.

My husband is the cheater..

My WH is your WW down to a T..He claims he is disabled but has never filed for disability, SSI or any benefits..He had been getting unemployment and as of a week ago has gotten a job..

We have been married 37 years..My WH has no savings or pension accumulated..

I am retired as of last year, pension in payout..

Things are starting to unfold to my advantage a little bit more in that my WH is now working..


I am letting you know of my situation in order to help you with your decision making...If my 2nd D-day had happened with the same aftermath 16 years ago (your age), I would have filed for D and sucked it up..Kiddos would have been minors (teens) but they would have been old enough to understand our situation somewhat and adjust to the changes..I would have had time and energy (health) to work hard and rebuild a comfortable life/retirement on my own..Had I been stuck with alimony obligations, I would probably be free of them by now..

Now I am scared to death of D because I will be financially screwed with little likelihood to recover and lead a reasonably comfortable life as a senior citizen..I have earned an okay monthly retirement pension, but it is only enough to support one person..If I had a mortgage or rent obligation, I would have to go back to work part time...Divide my pension and add an alimony obligation monthly, and I would end up having to live with one of my kids, take in a couple of roommates ( if I get my own place) or remain in the same house with WH...
Or I will have to work FULL TIME until I die, lol..

The moral of my story is that it is better to know earlier on in one's married life, if the M is sustainable post A.. If not, file for D while one still has time to deal with the financial aftermath of D and rebuild for retirement..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

@Michman,
Have you actually talked to a lawyer at all?

There is a vicious cycle that you have allowed to continue. Your WW is still very much a wayward. You''''ve haven''''t identified them as such but you''''ve had more ddays.

You keep letting your WW control the conversation. What do you expect to happen with these talks/arguments/debates?

You confront. She denies. You show evidence. She denies and deletes. Why are chasing this any further?

She has zero remorse. She has zero regret. She is just looking for new ways to get away with it and/or wear you down so you let her do whatever she wants.

This is the position she has put you and your M in. Either accept that she will not faithful, honest or transparent....or don''''t. She is not showing the least sign of any alternative.
She reactivated the account for her adult dating site. Think about that sentence. Think about any spouse having to face that their W or H re-....as in activated again...re-activated an account on a dating site (much less an adult site like AFF).

This...

The only silver lining I guess is that she has had no interaction on that site since DD#2 +3 days
...reads to me like she was on it up until 3 days after dday #2. That sounds like just long enough for her to either take it underground or put things on hold until she can wear you down.

Why are you doing all of the work here?

Are the financial issues honestly enough of a reason to put up with this?

Sorry for the 2x4s but it seems like you''''ve gotten sucked into this cycle because you expected a different outcome. Like you felt, as most people would, that any WW who doesn''''t want to D would not fight you on all of this. Except she is because she can. She is not about repairing the M. She''''s focused on how much she can get away with and that''''s no way for any partner in a relationship to be.

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 1:51 AM, January 22nd, 2014 (Wednesday)]


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3785 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 12:47 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)

Your situation sucks.

If you know the identity of her boyfriend, and have proof - you can post them up on cheaterville.com

This is not about revenge, but about making it known that these people have no problem attempting to destroy a family unit.

You could then anonymously link the cheaterville post to whoever you want.

Furthermore - stop funding her. If she needs money for her life, then she can get a job.


Posts: 176 | Registered: Oct 2013
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)

My responses in bold

@Michman,
Have you actually talked to a lawyer at all?Yes, 4 phone calls, 2 meetings, and another appt for next week. The main reason in this state to file first (its a no fault state) is so if it goes to discovery, the filing party has the advantage to go first and ask the witness questions before they leave the stand.
There is a vicious cycle that you have allowed to continue. Your WW is still very much a wayward. You''''ve haven''''t identified them as such but you''''ve had more ddays.Yes, I'm waiting for her to "come around" I guess I keep hoping.I do have an almost 1yr old daughter to consider as well.

You keep letting your WW control the conversation. What do you expect to happen with these talks/arguments/debates?YOu are right again. I don't know what I expect, answers, apologies, remorse, openess, honesty...I get some apologies, she says she remorseful and ashamed, but she also says she doesn't want it thrown in her face forever.

You confront. She denies. You show evidence. She denies and deletes. Why are chasing this any further?Again I have a 1yr old daughter.I cannot throw our marriage away as whimsically as she has. We have known each other for 16 years, and 10 of those years we have been married. I have stood by her and supported her through her chronic depression, chronic pain, going on disability (not working anymore) coming off of pain pills, multiple surgeries, a cardiac event, kidney stones, pregnancy (was a difficult pregnancy) and post partum depression. I'm locked in this role as a caretaker (not that I want that, but for many years this is all I know)

She has zero remorse. She has zero regret. She is just looking for new ways to get away with it and/or wear you down so you let her do whatever she wants.I have not been on this site long, but one thing I have found is usually the "worse case" scenario is generally the truth. You are probably right again.

This is the position she has put you and your M in. Either accept that she will not faithful, honest or transparent....or don''''t. She is not showing the least sign of any alternative.
She reactivated the account for her adult dating site. Think about that sentence. Think about any spouse having to face that their W or H re-....as in activated again...re-activated an account on a dating site (much less an adult site like AFF).

This...

The only silver lining I guess is that she has had no interaction on that site since DD#2 +3 days
...reads to me like she was on it up until 3 days after dday #2. That sounds like just long enough for her to either take it underground or put things on hold until she can wear you down.
Why are you doing all of the work here?A question I have asked her multiple times. Since Sunday I'm done. I've begun distancing myself and entering the plane of indiffence to her, her wants, needs, etc.

Are the financial issues honestly enough of a reason to put up with this?That is the question I ask myself a lot every day. If pressed to make a decision at this very moment the anser is no, it's not.

Sorry for the 2x4s but it seems like you''''ve gotten sucked into this cycle because you expected a different outcome. Like you felt, as most people would, that any WW who doesn''''t want to D would not fight you on all of this. Except she is because she can. She is not about repairing the M. She''''s focused on how much she can get away with and that''''s no way for any partner in a relationship to be.LOL, felt the 4X4s.Again you are right. I guess no matter how much it hurt me I had always hoped she would come around and start true R.

Im almost 42, in good health. I figure 21 more years of working, put the kid through college.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)

Im almost 42, in good health. I figure 21 more years of working, put the kid through college.
I just turned 43. My parents went through pure hell for years when I was younger. They stayed together. They did put me through college. They did not truly R. They pretty much rugswept and their M is more adversarial than it is a partnership. I can tell you without a doubt I would have preferred they D than live like they have. It''s a waste. Not only that it was enduring example of how not to be. That''s all I could learn from them because I never learned how to establish boundaries, communicate in a mature manner or in general what a healthy relationship looks like. Your children don''t do what you say. They do what they see. I can also tell you that trying to not be like my parents M has not led to success. At least it hasn''t for me.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3785 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)

Michman, first let me say you are to be commended for your ability to maintain your composure and rationality thru all of your ordeal. I could not do that. That being said, I feel bad that you appear to be such a good person that you are continuing to hold on to this hope that this will have a happy ending. I agree with those that have stated that bringing a total stranger hook up from the Internet into your home has put your daughter and you in possible danger. At least if we was meeting this guy at a hotel only she would be in danger. You need to put this woman out of your life for good or you are going to spend most of your spare time for years doing these tracking activities. Based on her behavior, how can you ever believe this will stop. You r better than this. Don't let her to continue to make you her cuckold husband. Good luck

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, February 28th (Friday)

"Im sorry you're hurting. Im sorry Im the one that hurt you. But your behavior is pushing me away."

-WW to me last night....

shortly followed by the "your behavior caused you to jump on a bag of random dicks, that is what's pushing me away"
--me to WW

I was doing so well this month with the 180 too, a big trigger month because I had some of the old texts from OM1 and WW about the boston st patty's rendezvous of 2012. She's already told me she's going to her parents for St. patty this year...good time for me to start packing up my stuff:)


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
kalimata
Member
Member # 42104
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, February 28th (Friday)

Michman:

Thanks for sharing your story. Your WW is one complete nut-case. She appears to live in a fantasy world where you earn most of the money, take care of her and the kids, and let her romp around and find new boyfriends who shower her with attention. Sounds like she is quite needy.

I see several problems with the way you have handled things thus far:

1) You have not exposed the A widely enough. You mention that you have told her parents, which is good. But exposure is really the best weapon you have to snap her out of the fog. You need to especially contact any and ALL of her former OM spouses. The spouses of OM deserve to know. Finally you need to expose to any close friends between both of you. Exposure is not meant for vindictive purposes but as a way to publicly shame and humiliate the wayward back to reality. She needs to understand how shameful and hurtful her actions have been. It typically takes close friends or family to tell that to a wayward for them to understand. Find more people to expose to, and do it all at once, don't trickle it out

2) Confront. Your confronts have been rather weak. She sees that you have been scared to go through with the D, and is now manipulating you. You need to be ready to file for D and really mean it for it to be effective. If I were you, I would go ahead and ask the attorney to prepare D papers and file them. Have her formally served. For maximum impact, don't warn her ahead of time, and have her served in a public place. Then get an empty suitcase and give it to her. Kick her out of the house. If this doesn't shock her enough, then nothing will

I would stop spying and collecting information on her. She has no interest now to change things because she is getting everything she wants: 1) You are providing for her and taking care of kids and 2) sexual needs fulfilled outside with whoever she wants. She is the ultimate cake-eater and will not change until you stand up for yourself and stop acting like a pussy.

PS - buy a copy of Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay. Read up on how to act like an alpha male. You are acting like a pussy (beta) so she will continue to walk over you until you stand up.


.......................Kali


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Five months ago I gave myself a 6 month waiting period for my WW to fix her shit. I gave her clear expectations of what I needed to heal and what she had to do for me to consider reconciliation. While she was working on that, I was working on me and preparing for an exit strategy. I've been very busy, WW....eh not so much. Continues with the online sex chats, etc...only a matter of time before the random internet fuckbuddys start coming over to the house. I saw a chat from a guy from Australia last week and I offered to buy WW a one way ticket to Australia for her birthday.

I have interviewed 4 attorneys, and have chosen one. Only need to squirrel away another $400 without WW knowing to be able to pay $3000 retainer. She doesn't know I even talked to attorneys.

I have 3 options on suitable living arrangements for me and my daughter. It's a real bitch to find a nice place that will allow 2 small dogs. I hate this fucking house. She can have it (after paying me my share of equity:)) I also have 2 options on daycare if needed.

I have taken measures to protect myself financially. I have already changed everything I can legally change. I also have some other paperwork to file as soon as D is filled with regards to will, poa, etc.

I have attended IC weekly for the last 5 months. I no longer get emotional over the death of my marriage. It is what it was. The only thing that continues to upset me is the fact that I will miss time with my daughter. Because no matter how batshiat crazy my WW is, she has done nothing illegal or to put daughter in danger so courts wouldn't grant me full custody. (all 4 attorneys stated as much, I could always ask, but it most likely would be denied) I live in a no fault state.

I'm really glad I gave myself this time. I was able to see my daughters first steps. I was able to hear her first words. Countless giggle fits and several evenings falling asleep in my arms. First Christmas. First birthday party's. First experience in the snow. I made her first batch of baked ziti that she was able to gnash her way through, while at the same time turning our dining room floor a lovely shade of tomato. And all of these and other wonderful things also serve to build up the resentment for WW and the fact I will never forget what she did. I will never accept what she did. I will not forgive her for forcing me into the choice of what living situation I must endure to be the BEST father I can be. And if that makes me a pussy, so be it...I'm comfortable with that.

So many people and articles in the reading library have been so helpful to me. I thank you.

[This message edited by Michman at 8:56 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)]


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

She outright refused to give me complete and total access to her cell phone, emails, and social networking accounts. Yes, this really bothers me. She claims it would shred her sense of privacy and that if I can't trust her we should just end the marriage.

I think she's at least got that right.
Take or borrow some money and file for divorce. The sooner you get away from this destructive force the better you and your daughter will be. She has obviously abandoned you, the marriage, and her daughter.
I couldn't let that shit stand for another day.


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 893 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Well you have clearly made a path for yourself and will be just fine. Who knows maybe your CSTBXW will be willing to hand over primary custody to you so she can have more time tO really ruin her life.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
SadInNC
Member
Member # 42170
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Michman,

Dude, I read your entire story on this thread. It took me a long time to take it all in. So, I'm going to comment on a few things. When I first started reading your posts I felt that:

1. You still loved your wife...a lot. That was one reason I could come up with for why you would ever put up with what she was doing. Her actions were and continue to be so outrageous and blatently "cheating in your face."

2. You were terrified of loosing custody of your daughter. Another reason for why you would put up with her shit for so damn long. You sound like a terrific Dad! When you D this woman who is destroying you, you will still be a terrific Dad. Please remember that!

3. Finances. Nobody wants to be broke, especially when you have little ones to take care of. Legit reason for being scared shitless to D. It takes courage to make big changes in your life. You are about to be brave.

Your latest posts refer to all the plans you have made for D. She has done countless things behind your back, so you owe her no warning about the D. I really feel for your pain. The sooner you detach, the better off you will be.

I hope you keep posting. I wish you well, especially with those kids of yours who you love so, so much.



BS/Me WH/Him

"Your value doesn't decrease based on someone's inability to see your worth." -Unknown Wise Person


Posts: 337 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: North Carolina, United States
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 3:12 AM, March 13th (Thursday)

Five months ago I gave myself a 6 month waiting period for my WW to fix her shit.

Well that's another 6 months of your life you threw away on what amounts to an unremorseful, self serving, lying, sneaky and generally poor excuse for a woman. I too have read this entire thread and I'm sick, I cant imagine what you feel like. Personally I could not endure another minute let alone another month of her shit. And even if by some miracle she decided to change tomorrow I still would not waste another minute on her. Dude, you deserve an award for putting up with the most shit I've ever heard of in regard to infidelity. And that's not a compliment !!! There comes a time when you just gotta toss in the towel. And that time was 5 months ago. Don't waste another day on this whore. Yep I said it she is a whore. And I'm not saying this to try and piss you off or to hurt you. I'm saying it because its true. I should know because I was M to a whore also. After D-day and my subsequent S/D I discovered my XWW had quite the extra curricular life going on all the I was oblivious to it. Sure the signs were there, but hey hindsight is 20/20. Even after D-day my XWW did not stop her shit. She lied during a very brief R, but could not stop. So I had to stop her from hurting me. And I did and don't regret it for one single second.

It was tuff for me to accept that my W, the mother of my children was in fact a whore. But that's exactly what she was and continued to be. After our S/D she went on a MM frenzy. Must have had at least 5 or 6 affairs with MM that I know of. And that number could be quite higher to be honest. And unlike your WW who likes to meet strangers my XWW actually went after men she knew. Coworkers, husbands of friends, old BF's, FB hook ups etc. That woman marched through MM like Sherman marched through Georgia. But my one saving grace was I was not directly in the middle of her insanity any longer. You claim your WW is a good mother. But I ask you is this the type of person you want raising your D ? Kids learn from example and is this the example you want set ? And lets not forget the safety issue that comes with her lifestyle. These men are in your home and quite possibly when your child is there. She is not a good mother and stop saying she is. Dude if I were you I would not wait another minute to file for D. Cut your losses now bro.

I really hope that things go your way during the D. But don't count on the courts doing the right thing either. My XWW's lifestyle had no bearing on my D or custody. Shit she was awarded full custody and I got standardized visitation. All because I worked too many hours. But hey that's how it goes. But now for the good news. Since my D my life has grown by leaps and bounds. I am much happier and while I had my ups and downs in the beginning my decision to D and end the misery was the best decision I ever made. I hope the same for you.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5652 | Registered: Nov 2007
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, March 13th (Thursday)

People can't turn off their love and emotions for their spouse overnight. So while this last 5 months has been a living hell for you, I am not surprised that it has taken this long to detach as much as you have. Sure, you could have started to detach earlier, and saved some time, but for what you have gone through, this timeline is not that surprising.

It is amazing what our WSs can do to us. They way that they learn to virtually hate us...and the ability to drive us to the same mindset. How do they become this way? Did they change overnight, or was this ability always an underlying possibility of their character...and we were too blind to see it?

You can delve deeper in those questions after you get away from your wife. Get that D rolling TODAY...because it will continue to be hell until it is finalized. There are more months of this shit ahead of you---possibly even worse, if your WW is vindictive.

Keep protecting yourself, and get out of this toxic situation, as soon as humanly possible.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, March 13th (Thursday)

I have no regrets with the way I handled my situation. (with a lot of help from some of the people here)

I can assure you this, when that D is filed, no turning, looking back.

I am at peace with my decision because it is the way I can be the best father and best person I can be.

I am the better person. I was before DDay, and I certainly have been after DDay.

I'm going to blindside that bitch so hard it will probably tighten her vagina back up.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, March 13th (Thursday)

Michman, I'm so happy you're in a position to move on soon with the D. One day this will all be in the rear-view. You're almost there, and you should be in a good position after all your strategic planning. Of course it's not a position you would have chosen....but you'll make the best of it.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4139 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Here's something I did not expect.

I contacted OM1's wife via Facebook msg. a couple of days ago. I only asked for her email address to send her a message of a "personal nature." Obviously I chose not to spam her work email with a message of adultry...I thought it was a classy move on my part.

Today she replied, "Please leave me alone. Things are bad. I have it taken care of."

I don't want to waste much more time or energy with this, but I'm curious as to your thoughts? I'm leaning towards no further action required. But I just couldn't help myself, I responded with a "so you know they fucked all st patty's weekend 2012" whoops....guess that's just a bit o rage coming out, lol

[This message edited by Michman at 5:53 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)]


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Sounds like he got to her facebook and replied.

Posts: 489 | Registered: Jan 2006
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Michman, it's a hard call, whether or not to confirm it really was the OBS...part of me thinks let it go, to help you continue to detach. In time, I think the right way will appear.
I hope your ducks are in a row, so much that when you blindside her, your pussy will tighten up.

Several poser's dicks will light up, burn, and fall off...give it time...


Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)

I'm betting she is attempting to rugsweep the whole thing. Or he has her email. I think I would make one last attempt by sending her an email to her work. Just stating that you want to be sure she had received the info. If she responds the same then that is her choice.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
bent44
Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)

You have conducted yourself so well so far. I admire your strength. Please don't blow it now.

IMHO, if you are headed for D, court may be a part of your life. From this point forward, do not put anything in writing that you would not comfortably read to a judge in open court.

As to further contact, OM1's wife has asked you not to contact her. What do you think a judge or jury will think of you if you persist?

Sounds like you have hit the anger stage, which is a healthy and normal reaction to this insanity. But please be careful where you vent...SI being an awesome place to do so.

Please don't take this as belittling you or your pain. I have read your story, and have great respect for all you have accomplished in such a short time. The words are only meant to help.

Shorter version of the above, as my momma used to say: don't sink to her level....OK, doubt you could ever sink THAT low, but hope you get the just.

Sending you continued grace and courage. You rock!


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.

Update...he


Posts: 727 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Ugg, now I'm beginning to wish I never had even messaged her.

she did reply, "OM1 just told me today that they were scheming ideas on how to get back at us. Did they actually get together??!!"

then I replied, "How much do you want to know? I have texts, FB screenshots, and email. And I have never cheated on WW. That is a lie she told herself and other people to justify her actions. I can send these things to your email. Let me know."

And there it is...

I am telling myself one more message, if she asks for it, then I'm done.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Don't forget to tell her about this site as well when you send the info. She may need it the help.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 475 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Sounds like OM1's wife is finally seeing through the fog.


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 893 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

If you believe that this is the OM's BS that is trying to contact you, then you need not contact her for anything...unless she asks you to.

You exposed. She responded. She is now aware of something that has gone on with her WH and your WW. Your job here is done, unless she asks for more information/contact. You can now move on to the next obstacle.

Keep getting your ducks in a row. Keep detaching. Don't be surprised if you experience setbacks---this would be normal.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

That privacy bullshit it just that bullshit. It is her way of controlling you still. Get it, or kick her out. She doesn't get to dictate anything. If she has any questions...then direct her here and let her know that she doesn't deserve privacy. She isn't entitled to it.

As far as the NC letter...make her do it. Who cares how uncomfortable it is for her. Tough, she dug that ditch.

I found this site too late and let my fWH railroad me into how the M/relationship was going to be after D-day.

I was so worried about him leaving, that I put up with so much to keep the peace. Don't do that. They are not going anywhere or they would have left already. Take control.

Call her bluff and say okay. I can't trust...you gave me no reason to trust you. Deal with it or get out.

Who runs the show in your marriage? If it is your wife, then perhaps this is your chance to step up and lead your family through this tough time. She may have more respect for you as you draw the line.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, March 21st (Friday)

Nothing but crickets since my last message. I'll try her work email next week just to see if she got my FB messages and then I'm done.

No reaction frm WW so I guess that means NC is still in tact. So that's something positive....like frosting on a turd cupcake.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)

WS broke NC with Adult Friend Finder fwb and others on that site. She was at her parents house. I called my IC and spoke to him first. This was around 930pm. Then I called her and told her I knew and that I would pick up DD tomorrow and would appreciate if she would just stay at her parents for a few days. I told her I refuse to remain in a relationship where I am treated with such disrespect. I refuse to remain in a relationship where she selfishly does whatever she wants and doesn't care about the pain she causes me. And I am done giving out second chances and I am done waiting for her to get serious and fix her shit. WS basically said she is not going to stay away, and that I couldn't take DD anywhere without her. Then she started the usual "you've been emotionally unavailable" (No shit, I'm detaching, duh) and trying to blame me for her behaviors, which I told her to take those excuses and shove them up her ass, like she likes to shove everything else. More blameshifting, rugsweeping, you name it. The conversation went downhill pretty quickly. I said some very harsh and angry things and I'm not sorry about it one bit. It was all true.

I got a phone call from her father at 3am that she was at the hospital. Apparently she had taken 9-12 tylenol pm. FIL told me they are going to get her inpatient hospitalization (even if it takes a court order). He informed me that MIL and him are totally supportive of me and that I should be the one to raise DD. I said, "will you testify to that effect?" He also told me that they will not help WS in any way with legal expenses (he must not know that due to her disability she is entitled to free or greatly reduced legal costs, oh well). I'm still not sorry for what I said. WS is just using this tactic to manipulate. A small part of me hoped that the 3am call was that WS is dead, but death would be too easy of a way out for her. I told the inlaws I would be by this afternoon to pick up DD and take her home with me. They can deal with the damaged goods.

Unfortunately it's "spring break" and my lawyer is on vacation til the 14th.

Despite all of this, I'm still very comfortable with the way I've handled this. I feel I can leave with a very clear conscience, and with the knowledge I was the better person, and I gave WS multiple chances to right the wrongs. I know I may not have handled this the "textbook" way, but I have no regrets with the way I handled this humungous turd sandwich


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Wow Mich, you sure got enough extra toppings on your shit sandwich didn't ya?

I certainly hope she didn't wash those Tylenol PM's down with any liquor, if she did, she may have to go shopping for a new liver. People use Tylenol as an "Attention Seeking" attempt of suicide, unfortunately they often don't know the real risk of the damage the combo of that with liquor does to the liver. I have seen it kill several young people.
On the other hand the stuff they give to bind with the Tylenol is awful it's called mucomist, and we in the medical profession call it pukomist, it smell of sulfur, and she will have to drink it every 4 hours.

Now I see this as a total self serving, attention seeking thing. Her parents may not be successful in obtaining a stay for her, if she is alert and oriented, and able to make her own choices, the burden falls to her parents to prove she is a danger to herself or others prior to this, and they have to give specific examples.

Anyway. Stay strong. Protect yourself and your daughter.

(((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
BAMAC
Member
Member # 39334
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Mich, I'm sorry you're going through this. Neither you, nor anybody, deserves to be treated like this.


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
Divorced 7/10/2014

Posts: 83 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Stay strong, Mich. You are being a rock for your DD. I'm glad the in laws are being supportive of you. Keep doing things for the best interest of yourself and your DD.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 475 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Tushnurse, is that the same as activated charcoal? No alcohol in the house. She had a similar episode with hydrocodone about 7 years ago, again no alcohol.

WS has been transferred via ambulance to a psychiatric hospital, so I'm guessing she was at least "playing along" with going. Funny thing is, I would have never even told my closest friends or relatives about this before DDay. Now I don't give a crap.

Most people are surprised that acetaminophen is very toxic to the liver, and it's one of those things that take the bare minimum necessary pills. REally easy to get too much, especially if you are also on some OTC cold/flu medication.*

*ps-not a doctor nor in medical profession, but I've had experience.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Dare2Trust
Member
Member # 21183
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Michman,

I sent you a PM.


Me BS 59
WH 58
Married 19 years
D-Day Nov 3, 2005
Child: Adopted Daughter 21 College Student now

I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.


Posts: 6115 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Sorry for the delayed response. N


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Sorry for the delayed response. Charcoal is nOt the same. It's a first line treatment. When the acetominophen levels are unknown. Mucomist is given when it's obvious the Tylenol dose is toxic.

Stay strong.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Michman)))
Sending strength brother!

Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Ya know what, despite the events of the last 24 hours, I'm in a good place right now.

I'm at home with my DD. She is sleeping peacefully in the next room. My two Bichon Frise's are taking up 3/4 of a queen size bed. And my WW is in a psychiatric hospital for the next 2 days at least.

Infidelity certainly skews the perception of "the good life."


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, April 4th (Friday)

You have found your peace in this. Congrats. That is a huge step.

Enjoy your time with your little angel. Oh and those 2 mean little white dogs.....Slight T/J

We had a bichon dropped at our front door many years ago, and he was mean as hell. He bit me more times than I could count in the 2 weeks it took us to find him a new home. He had a name, but we ended up calling him mean little white dog. So now when I see or think of a Bichon, that's what comes to mind. I'm sure yours are cute as buttons, and sweet. Just a scar on my psyche that a dog didn't love me.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, April 4th (Friday)

And the next day....

Finally hitting me. Calling potential daycare providers, calling attorney's office (hopefully I'll hear back from one of her partners today, but it's the first day of spring break in this area and there are probably either getting ready or already left with their families....)

A visitation at the hospital is Sat. MIL wants to take DD to see WW. WW has not been in any contact with me since our phone conversation on Wed. night.

And so I'm pissed I'm spending my time dealing with this shit.

Many of you were right, and if I had followed your advice, I would be nearing the end of the 6 month mandatory cooling off period, instead, I'll just be starting it.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Furious1
Member
Member # 42970
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, April 4th (Friday)

Don't beat yourself up. You had to do what was right for you, when and how it was right for you. Armchair advice is easy give. You were the one walking a mile in your shoes. As such, you are the only one most qualified to make decisions for yourself.

Hang in there. I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem that attempting to commit suicide with her daughter present would hurt her attempts at custody because she was not thinking about DD's welfare. Hopefully, her parents will back you in court about getting custody.


BW: 41
WH: 48
Married 18 years. SD: 25 from his 1st. M. DS: 20 from 1st M. DD: 16 (autistic)

D-day: Oct. 2013 with ongoing revelations.
6 affairs, 1 OC, My sister was OW#5 with countless attempted A's.
Considering R but fully ready to D.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, April 5th (Saturday)

I agree. Yours wife's mental instability should help you to get custody and avoid child support payments. Make sure very thing is documented.

Furious1 is spot on, armchair advice is so easy to dispense. You did your best, gave her every chance; you should have no guilty feelings about your efforts to save this marriage.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, April 7th (Monday)

So WW and I are having a meeting together at the hospital tomorrow. In laws are coming to watch DD and to visit WW later. My mother in law has been acting as intermediary bc WW thinks I want nothing to do with her. I told MIL that she can tell WW she can call so MIL isn't put in that position. I'm a big boy and I can handle talking to WW.

I have an IC tonight and will go over what to expect at the meeting tomorrow. My WW is being treated for bipolar disorder. One thing that worries me is that everyone (WW, inlaws, anyone else) would brush these events off as "oh, she was bipolar so it's ok/understandable and BS, you should just accept what happened because bipolar disorder is terrrible and sometimes this is what happens." Fuck that noise.

Bottom line is this. She will basically have to move heaven and earth to convince me NOT to file for divorce, NOT to go for full custody, NOT to fucking destroy her in open court if necessary to get what I want.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, April 7th (Monday)

She will basically have to move heaven and earth to convince me NOT to file for divorce, NOT to go for full custody, NOT to fucking destroy her in open court if necessary to get what I want.

Good for you. So tired of hearing about ruthless WS's who ride roughshod over BS's suffering from shock. Nice to hear from a guy who knows what the objectives are and will do what's necessary to achieve his goals.

Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, April 7th (Monday)

She will basically have to move heaven and earth to convince me NOT to file for divorce, NOT to go for full custody, NOT to fucking destroy her in open court if necessary to get what I want.

Quite honestly, there is absolutely no reason for you not to file. There will never be a *better*, more advantageous time for you to file. Cold hearted? Nope, pragmatic.

You can always put a halt to it or re-marry.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2794 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, April 7th (Monday)

"oh, she was bipolar so it's ok/understandable and BS, you should just accept what happened because bipolar disorder is terrrible and sometimes this is what happens." Fuck that noise.

Absolutely correct. No free passes given here.

I agree with 5454. If there was ever a chance to make a strong move for the sake of your children...and your own sanity...then this would be it.

Remember, you can always stop the process down the road. Hell, if your WW ever gets her shit together, you can reconcile AFTER a divorce...if it goes that far.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, April 7th (Monday)

Just wanted to wish you continuing strength. I am so sorry for all you've been through. I hope that the courts will side with you and let you be the good father that your DD needs and deserves. As you've discovered, you cannot fix your WW. She will need to do that on her own, if she wants to badly enough. I am glad you are in the mode now of protecting yourself and your DD.

I hope the light in the distance will grow ever brighter and that peace and happiness return to your life.


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 671 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
MediumRare
Member
Member # 35128
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, April 7th (Monday)

Hi Michman,
Sorry if I missed it but several pages back you said you were going to get a paternity test on your daughter. Did that come through positive as you being the father?

What would concern me would be if there is any paternity issue that your WW may try to exploit when/if it comes down to a custody fight. Your lawyer may need to take a totally different angle if your daughter is OM's vs. yours.

It's a terrible thing to think about but unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past the behavior your WW has exhibited and it would be tragic if you lost custody your daughter.


BS (ME): 44
WS(HER): 42
9 years
OM#1- 20-something loser, stole bunch of my things after she had sex with him in our bed (no condoms, STDs)
OM#2- 24 year old, unemployed loser, lives with mom & dad
DDay 1/2012
NC 3/20/2012
SGASDay 4/1/2012

Posts: 716 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: California
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, April 7th (Monday)

Thanks for support everyone. About to go to IC in about a half hour.

MediumRare-every single attorney I consulted on phone and spoke in their office all said that in the eyes of the court, she is my daughter. At this point it paternity doesn't matter. For me it is a needless expense and to be honest, I don't even care. She is mine and I love her with all my heart, no matter the DNA.

[This message edited by Michman at 9:29 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)]


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, April 7th (Monday)

double post

[This message edited by Michman at 5:50 PM, April 7th (Monday)]


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, April 7th (Monday)

What a beautiful little girl. The joy on her face speaks volumes.

Protect her brother!

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2794 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, April 7th (Monday)

What a cutie. Oh and just on that pic she is yours.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, April 9th (Wednesday)

WW is probably getting out of psychiatric hospital tomorrow or next day. Will probably have to go to outpatient program. I'm just kinda "whatever"

When I was called in to have a mtg with WW and her caseworker, I was told that my WW not knowing the status of our relationship was a huge factor and concern to her healing and treatment. I calmly said, "her actions have consequences. I cannot speak today on the status of our relationship. It is in very grave condition but I'm surely not going to announce here and now what may be coming. I certainly didn't get a "heads up, I'm about to invite some internet fuck buddy over to the house for sex." I said perhaps the focus should be on focusing on her underlying issues that caused this behavior, not the results or potential consequences of the behavior. Ialso said that this whole episode is just the ultimate manipulation on WW part. She got caught, knew the marriage was over, took a bunch of pills, went to ER, then transfer to psychiatric hospital for 8-9 days, then come home, and hope all is better.

I will allow her to get her treatment. Other than that, it's 180, detach, save $, plan, spend time with DD, do things I want/like to do.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
Michman
Member
Member # 41322
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

6 month update:

Went to Easter service in the church where WW and I were married, and also where DD was baptized. Every minute I was there I was thinking, "scene of the crime" and "it's not even funny I'm in here right now." At one point during the service I lifted DD off of the kneelers and hit the back of my head on a column so hard I saw stars. So that was fun. The Father who baptized our daughter said, "haven't seen you guys in a while" and I said, "well, we've been busy and out of the area." What I wanted to say was, "sorry, but my wife is not following through on the vows she swore to uphold in this very church."

After inpatient stay for WW (see previous posts) she had to do out patient for a few days. Using the "find my iphone" feature, I was able to track her. On her last day of outpatient, she was over 2 hours late. When I asked her what time she got there (the roads were icy that morning) she lied about being two hours late. Strike 1

In two days, WW used 2GB on her cell phone. Our plan allows 14GB total for 3 phones, and we have not exceeded this ever. The pattern was similar to last summer when she was sending/receiving videos. Strike 2

General disrespect-leaving the house a mess for when I get home to clean up from DD lunch, laying in bed napping and masturbating instead. Instead of helping DD with Easter Egg hunt (at her family's celebration) she sat around talking to her sister in law and aunts. Yesterday she said she was sick, and had diarrhea and poo'd herself. Tossed blanket and clothes in upstairs trash can, left poop in tub and shower handle, etc. WTF am I living with??? I had to ask her several times (and as of 630am today had not been done yet) to bag up her shitty items and put them in the outdoor trash can. She reiterates that she has been sick, yet she can lay in bed and eat Easter candy til the cows come home.

Oh yeah, still livin' the "good" life. Walking towards the D.


Betrayal is the only truth that sticks. -Arthur Miller, lol, that's rich.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2013
nekonamida
Member
Member # 42956
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Wow. It sounds like she truly believes having had a suicide attempt has successfully rug swept her many As not that she admitted to anything in the first place. She will get a big wake up call when she finds out you filed for D.

Posts: 95 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Take photos, document, document, document. All good arguments for you getting primary custody and legal custody. Build your case, incident by incident, for your divorce. And please, if you have a 6 month waiting period, get those papers filed so that you can get started on that particular brand of hell.

As an idea, there are some really great people in the separation and divorce forum, who could give you some good ideas on what to and not to do, plus give you support through this process.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4785 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

You need to video this evidence that is a particular kind of fucked up. What woman shits herself and makes a mess and leaves it? That is not only a psych issue, but a health issue. How is hepatitis spread? Through stool. Your DD doesn't need to near this batshit crazed woman. Sorry if she can't bag her poopy sheets, then she certainly isn't bother to wash her hands after pooping.

Document document document.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8420 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Topic Posts: 108