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User Topic: Back, just for advice right now - full explanation, long
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 4:34 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Hi all,

It's back on the merry go round. If you're bored of my running round in circles please feel free to ignore this post. I really don't want to get annoying.

The thing is H keeps going back to his original story and no one on here believes that so I am stumped on how to move forward. He is writing me a timeline and a letter detailing everything. I should have it within the week.

Thing is we were talking last night and he is right back to the original story but with a bit more explanation.

Back to he didn't fancy her, it was the EA he wanted and not the physical stuff but when it happened he couldn't think if a way out without the shit hitting the fan.

Surely if his story only changes when I threaten to leave him then his original story must be the truth? When I say I don't believe it he agrees with almost anything I say so I don't leave. He has admitted to wanting someone new, not being able to resist etc but when I question him further it falls apart and he admits he didn't want PA.

he is saying that yes he wanted the EA, badly. He turned his life into a bubble with just the two of them in it. He really wanted that and has held his hands up with brutal honesty on that part - again it's never changed.

The kisses, he did want to kiss her. But not from a sexual point of view. It was all to get more attention, that was all that mattered to him, her wanting him so when she looked like she wanted to be kissed he didn't hesitate - by kissing her he could get the affirmation that yes she did want him and that was his goal. To find out of he was sexually attractive to other women his self esteem has always been so low he never believe anyone else could want him so when she clearly did he got carried away with it.

When she didn't kiss him back and he didn't like it either he thought they had gone back to an EA and the physical stuff had stopped. He went into panic mode scared he would lose his EA and his constant attention so he text her more than ever to make sure she knew he wanted to continue the EA.

When she picked him up the next night he told her not to bother but when she insisted he was flattered so he agreed. HE thought at that point he was just getting a lift home as she insisted she was only 5 mins away and why waste money on a taxi. He agreed. He wanted to talk, he wanted the attention and flattery. He had felt lonely all night at the pub and resentful I wasn't with him due to my problems and she text him all night and he let her kind of take my place. He did text me a few times but as she never stopped texting him he ended up texting her all night.

Then when she drove around and said she was looking for somewhere to park he pointed out a few parking spaces but she kept saying no not there. That's when he wondered what she was up to. Yeah if he wasn't interested he should have got out when she pulled up in the car park but he wanted to talk, he loved the fact she had gone out of her way to come and see him, he hoped she would make a pass after rejecting his kisses. He wanted his attention and ego boost. But he did plan on refusing her, he just wanted her to show she found him attractive then he would stop it. He never thought how he would stop it though cos he never really believed she would try anything, it was just a background suspicion/hope he had.

He thought he was in control and playing games with her but she was playing games of her own. all was normal for half an hour he started to relax and let his guard down. When she lifted her skirt he panicked. He didn't expect such an extreme move, after all she hadn't even kissed him back the day before. Because it was such a huge thing she did his mind was racing, how could he say no now (more to come on this later before you all roll your eyes lol) he just didn't have the balls to stand up to her. he didn't want to offend his EA, risk losing his EA, risk her telling me, he realised his game playing had brought this on. Told himself to just do what she wanted and get out of there. He took the easy route and told himself I would never know and he had already ruined our marriage so he did it.

I do believe he stopped quickly, I want to believe he didn't like it and his words and actions with me the next day back this up.

He told me it was the worst night of his life and he would never go out without me again. He didn't want freedom he wanted to come back to being family man and sorry he had been such a grumpy idiot for the past few weeks. He would not have done that if he wanted more. He never touched her again after.

Now for the important bit. I know you all think he is lying and at times I have too. But after talking to him and thinking things through this is the scenario I can see him falling into for quite a few reasons,

Namely he cannot say no to anybody. He gets walked all over at work, he will not say no or tackle the boss for overworking him, or even being rude or aggressive to him. He hates to even ask for his annual leave in case the boss grumbles. He HATES anyone being cross with him, cold with him - any form of rejection at all. if a neighbour needs help in the middle of his meal, he will leave it and go help - not say wait 20 mins he will just flat out leave his meal. He has always been this way. He won't stand up to his nightmare of a mother, what she says goes.

He has a universal need to be liked, wanted, appreciated. a desperate need. Never known anyone like him. He didn't get it as a kid or an adult from his family. HIs parents are cold practical people. He NEVER gets a hug or any affection from them. I have never known a family to be so cold and hard. They argue all the time but not in a healthy way. They storm out, go silent, ignore each other and explode saying the most hurtful and nasty things.

He also has very low self esteem. He was always the geeky one til he met me. He had girlfriends but they were rarely the ones he wanted, just the ones who wanted him. If they wanted him he would sleep with them whether he wanted them or not. All that mattered to him was they wanted him.

He has always been very flirty in the attempt to get flirting back to make him feel good. It rarely happens. So when his ex popped up on face book he went straight into extreme flirting mode - worse than ever cos it was on line and didn't feel real. He said his mind went back to being 17 with her again and he really wanted her to still like him. She politely rejected his advances.

Then when this one started in his workplace he couldn't believe how she was falling all over him. He was low from various problems at that point and she really is a master manipulator and he was so easy to manipulate. He started an EA with her immediately. It met all his need for attention and approval. He really forgot me in the thrill of it all.

He did try and stop it all a few times even the EA, the text records confirm this, but as usual was crap at standing up for himself and took the easy route of no confrontation. Plus until it turned physical he didn't really want to end it, only part of him did.

So, yes I have decided to believe his story, it fits with his personality. He is so desperate to be wanted and can never say no to anyone, he admits he is a wimp in that way. Someone asked if he would drink battery acid if he was asked to. He wouldn't drink it but he would stick his tongue in to get attention!

I know I will probably get 2x4 for believing him but I just want to move forward now. If it was a lie his story would change but it only changes when I threaten to leave and then he said he was willing to tell me anything to keep me even if he had to lie and say he wanted her physically. She was never his type (she was just like his mum!) but she was just attractive enough for her attentions to mean something to him.

He realises he had ZERO boundaries and how badly he has screwed up. He said he has spent his whole life wanting to be wanted. Not just by women but by men too. He spent months doing marshalling on car rallies with a friend just to keep this friends - he hated doing it but kept it up cos this male friend was giving him the outside attention he craved.

He has realised he needs IC and the bike is up for sale to pay for that. He realises he has all he needs in me and DS and that no amount of external validation can make him feel whole, that he risked his family for it. He is disgusted with himself and is really making changes in that dept. Now he craves our attention not outside attention.

He has put his own boundaries in place and has shown me already he is working on saying no to people and not putting himself in dangerous situations.

Sorry this is so long but I felt the need to explain as no one believes his story. I really think I do now though.

ETA - although he didn't want the physical stuff I have to add that he does take full responsibility for the affair and is well aware he was weak and chose to take what was offered. He knows he did it and nobody made him do it.

[This message edited by olwen at 5:04 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
Nailinmyforehead
Member
Member # 38427
Default  Posted: 4:54 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I'm sorry, but sounds to be a load of crap to me. Just because you wish something to be true so badly, and can successfully argue reasoning behind it in your head, doesn't make it true. Sometimes I wonder if we BS's make things more complicated than they actually are. I know I do, in my own mind to try to justify things. Sometimes things are what they are on the surface and nothing more. They cheated.


"Son, you've got the future- shining like a piece of gold, but I swear as we get closer- it looks more like a lump of coal"

Posts: 132 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Ohio
TheAmazingWondertwin
Member
Member # 40769
Default  Posted: 5:04 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Hi friend :)
Do not feel you have to justify your faith in him right now. If anyone gives you a 2 x 4 - you have to know it comes from a loving place.
It is okay to feel this right now. Sometimes we need a break from the digging and the demanding. You have been so strong up until now and one thing I have learned is that you cannot fix it all at once.

just be right now. You have very well thought out reasons for believing him. I did too. For me- there were just some things that didn't click- but I didn't realize that they didn't click until I had thought about them for awhile. This whole process is crazy making- you get answers and exhaust yourself digging for details and then you just stop.... You believe him and you relax. Because you need it.
But... For me at least... Once I get the new info, it starts brewing in my head and what was okay two days ago suddenly has more blank spots and things that don't quite click, I tryto keep calm and rational and talk myself down, just so I can function- but eventually it gets to be too much and I go down the rabbit hole again. You just cannot know what direction your mind will take.
So be okay for now. For yourself. Relax and try to focus on your regular day to day. There will be more questions for you and all sorts of new and creative triggers you never knew were there (all part of the fun, right?). But it's okay to be content for a little bit.
I am not trying to be pessimistic- but for me, at this stage, enjoying the good but fully expecting more bad is simply the way I have to protect myself. I cannot be shattered again like I was over the past few days- so I have to protect myself.

I am sending you so many hugs. When you are ready, if you are ready, and only if you think you are ready- I can PM you some of the questions that I asked that opened the flood gates for him.
Because, gently :), I do not think yours is being TOTALLY honest. I'm sorry- I know that's not what you wanted to hear. But I still hear some "poor me" in there and ... EAs are different animals. The least of my worries was what they did physically. I wanted to know about the EA. and that gets very painful.
sending you hugs and support- relax for now. It's okay to take a break from it to heal and process. We have to or we'd all be insane.


Everyday is a new day, some good, some bad.
Me- BS 39
Him- FWS
14 years- 2 middle school children
DDay- 07-24-2013
NC broken from August 6- 24, 2013
Avalanche of Truth on November 14, 2013
Length of A: June 10th to Dday- with broken NC

Posts: 474 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: East Coast
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 5:16 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Thanks everyone, I just don't see why it's so unbelievable.

He cheated, I know he did. He knows he did. We have been going over and over this for 6 months now.

I had my lies at the beginning when he denied anything physical had ever taken place. When he confessed he told me everything in great detail and his answers don't change unless I force him to.

Why does what he says have to be a lie?

Is it not possible my weak husband was just that weak and not in a mad passion?

Why does he have to have loved every second of what he did. Like he said to me last night sticking your dick somewhere cos you feel you have to cos you don't have the balls to say no and you created the mess you're in does not feel nice.

I just don't get how his story is so unbelievable knowing what his personality is. Our families and few friends that know all believed it instantly. They know what he is like and the only way he would cheat is if he got in over his head and couldn't think of a way out without her telling me.

Also I met her and know how bad she is and she told me herself she manipulates men for fun.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 5:41 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I feel like the only acceptable answers would be that he wanted her, found her sexy, couldn't keep his hands off her and chased her relentlessly, set up the whole thing and know what he was doing every step of the way and loved screwing her.

I just can't see that. He has never been that man and I just can't see it. He is quite shy about sex even with me let alone someone new.

1)The EA was enough, the guilt was killing him and he did try and stop it.
2)He never went back for more.
3)If he had wanted her and planned it he would have booked a room and gone all out.
4)He is not confident and is very easily led.
5) he is not a man's man. He is quite feminine in his views on things.

They say as a generalisation that women tend to cheat for the emotional side of things and men for the sexual but I believe for him the EA was what he wanted.

That's bad enough, that he wanted to share his days with another woman behind my back, that kills me so why do I also have to believe he wanted her sexually. HE wanted HER to want him but he didn't really want her.

Anyway he has asked me to leave it for now and wait til I get my timeline and letter.

I don't know maybe the letter will say everything I said in the first sentence, I doubt it though.

I do have my doubts but it's what he keeps telling me.

I just don't know what to think and what to do. His story pretty much rings true to me and he is not saying different no matter how much I question him.

I will wait til I get my letter and take it from there.

I guess I am being gullible and everyone can see the truth but me. I just want this over.

[This message edited by olwen at 5:56 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, November 18th (Monday)

We usually see a bs believe lies from a WS before they can face the truth. ...

BUT

People give advice based on their experience. You have to take the advice that works in your situatIon and leave the rest. Only you can decide what your truth is.


ďAnd the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossomĒ
AnaÔs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3800 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:58 AM, November 18th (Monday)

You are trying very hard to receive confirmation on his story.

The truth is, only HE knows the details and thought processes that he was experiencing...and maybe those memories are clouded. If he changes his story just upon the threat of you leaving, because he doesn't know what else to do, then all that you are going to get right now is a more muddled version than you had weeks ago.

Listen to Wondertwin---just be you for right now.

Sometimes, you have to take a step back, and recollect your thoughts. As badly as you want to move forward, you need to give yourself time...to let your mind process everything.

The one thing that you can do is watch his actions. Is he in therapy? Did he actively set this up, or at your insistence? WHAT IS HE DOING?

The one thing that does stand out is the two of your memberships on this site.

As of this moment, you have 219 posts.

He has 10.

Again, what is he DOING on his own to repair this marriage?


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I have just been re reading all my old posts and seen just how much his story changes.

I am just going to wait for the letter and take it from there.

He has been making changes but the main thing has been working on the letter/timeline for me.

He doesn't post much cos he is working full time and isn't really one for forums. He does read though and has pointed out a few threads to me and we have talked about them,

He has put his bike up for sale to pay for ic, he wants to do it to make sure he never cheats again.

He replaced everything in the house she touched. He has done little things like texting me more often, always letting me know where he is, little gifts and jobs around the house, working hard with our son to be a better father. Coming to bed at the same time as me. Took me away for a weekend. Read how to help your spouse heal from your affair.

I am going to wait and see what happens with this letter. I don't know which story is true. THe one where he didn't want anything physical or the one where he took his chance to be with someone new.

MY head is up my backside and all I am doing right now is wasting everyones time and going round in circles. I thought I was giving an update saying I believe him and it's the first story but I just don't know.

[This message edited by olwen at 6:16 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, November 18th (Monday)

You are not wasting everyone's time. If his story is false it is not a reflection on you. ... we all trusted in the beginning. We didn't want to believe who they became. Give yourself time. You will get your truth and be able to move forward when you are ready.

I hope he is being honest.


ďAnd the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossomĒ
AnaÔs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3800 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Olwen,

SI is full of wise, articulate, compassionate people and I literally don't see how H and I could be in R without it.

But, people give advice out of their own experience. When it comes to SI, that experience is so emotional and powerful it's hard to ignore it and open your mind to something different.

My H did not enjoy his A. He hated it. He was miserable, anxious, horrified, and disgusted by sex with OW. Yes, I believe that men can have awful sex.

Feel free to look at my history because I've posted on all the "WS says the sex was bad" threads and started my own in the beginning. I don't resent the two-by-fours. Those posters are coming out of the type of WS and the type of affair that is far more common. They are trying to warn and protect me, and I appreciate that.

But some WS's are messed up in a way that makes them very vulnerable to manipulation. It makes them feel helpless to stop something they don't want (although they are not helpless or stuck at all). This doesn't excuse them. It does mean that they need a ton of work to figure out why they are self-destructive and why they "check out" rather than assert themselves.

I would suggest the book "Who's Pulling Your Strings?". Also, is your H the child of an alcoholic? Or was he ever abused (including emotional abuse)?

I think it is a huge positive sign that your H is going to IC. I know it's near impossible, but my advice would be to be patient. Your H is messed up in complicated ways that will take a long time to unravel.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, November 18th (Monday)

((Olwen))) it doesn't matter what others think. I agree with the advice to just BE, to just sit with this for a while. See if it continues to ring true. See if the timeline adds to it.

I'd also watch actions. Not texting more or helping around the house, which are *nice,* but ... window dressing. Rather, what is he doing to become safe--not just for you, but for his own wellbeing? If you are both right, he's identified some serious issues that require attention. He needs professional help, and he needs to work HARD in IC.

Otherwise, his whys remain blame shifting.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8667 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Yes there was almost complete emotional neglect in his home. On the other hand he was spoiled rotten materialistically. Other stuff too that fits but I am too scared to write on the off chance anyone may realise who we are, not being dramatic no murder or anything lol just a secret we have been burdened with and I would be in it up to my neck if anyone who knew us read this. Suffice to say a lot of H's actions reflect his early experiences.

Selling his beloved motorbike was his choice, he contacted relate and made an appointment for us but we developed money problems so I said we should cancel. He decided he needed ic and he wanted rid of the bike as she had sat on it. it's up for sale now and he has dropped the price dramatically he is so keen to start getting help. This was all his doing. I am already in IC cos of my bipolar.

He has done quite a few things that have shown a huge change in his attitude. Here area just a few.

1)after that night he has not been out to the pub since and says he won't until I am ready to join him.
2)Same with his works xmas party. SHE will be there so he won't go.
3)Also he has had her moved to another office
4)He told his bosses of the affair
5)He has applied for jobs all over the country to get away from her.
6) He has been NC apart from very curt exchanges that are necessary at work. He tries to email rather than have to see her. This is very rare.
7)He was relieved when it ended, never missed her or tried to contact her.
8)The one time she texted him he showed me and ignored it
9)He passed a female neighbour at a bus stop in the rain but didn't stop and offer her a lift as it was a boundary he set himself. No women in the car without me.
10) he lets me know where he is at ALL times. Even this morning work sent him out to buy something and he let me know where he was - just nipping out to buy batteries from Argos.
11)Sometimes they finish work early on a Friday but he won't go to the pub with them. He emails me from the office so I know he is still there.
12)I have access to his phone, phone records, email accounts, even his work one.
13)he told his family about the affair, sadly they told him not to tell me but that's a WHOLE different story!
14)he has tried posting here but never really gets time cos he is working on the letter for me.
15)he told me when my female best friend hugged him.
16)he told me he was concerned when she did that, a red flag popped up instantly. I knew she was just being supportive of both of us but was sooo pleased it concerned him
17)Told me when a teenage girl flashed him when he was at some traffic lights on the bike. He saw her start to lift her top and looked away. Another reason he is selling the bike, he doesn't want to attract attention now. Says he doesn't need it.
18) he has been on two business trips since the A - the first he drove through the night so as not to be in a hotel and the second when he couldn't he took our 8 year old son with him, I loved that
19)this is a biggie, my dad died in the middle of me finding out about the affair, that added to the tt I think. anyway H did EVERYTHING, from finding dad's body to arranging the funeral to clearing the house. He was amazing.

I see all that as quite positive.

Also he has just sat me down to explain that yes he didn't want her physically but he still CHOSE to go ahead in the car, no one made him do it. He doesn't really know why just yet he wants to work through it tonight and see if he can find his reasons so he can be totally truthful.

He didn't want her sexually but for some reason he did want to take what she was offering him. A reason he is not yet sure of and wants to work through. Yes he felt trapped by his previous actions and was scared she would tell me. Yes he thought he had ruined out relationship so why not but he insists it wasn't sexual desire, he just didn't feel that way about her.

he says it's there he just can't quite unravel it and to give him time and I will get my honest answers. It may well be the usual answer that he took it cos it was offered, he was curious, he was flattered etc but he knows it was not wow I want her and it was also not his chance to be with someone new. As he said he would have gone all out to please her if it was. Not just going through the motions to give her what she wanted.

He wants to give me this reason truthfully. He keeps getting stuck there and wants to take the time to work it out.

I offered to try and help him and he refused saying that way he could just take an out I give him, he wants to do it himself.

[This message edited by olwen at 8:21 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, November 18th (Monday)

sailorgirl, that's exactly how he felt about his affair. He hated it but was hooked too. HE felt horrible all the time and lost 2 stone in weight through the stress of hiding it. Also developed high blood pressure.

The bit he enjoyed was the EA although that was also tempered with guilt and disgust but he ignored it.

HE couldn't ignore it when it turned physical.

I also believe men can have awful sex. Even with me! Back when I was on meds that affected my sex drive I tried one night but he could tell I wasn't really into it and he hated it and stopped. Men may take sex where it is offered for many reasons, doesn't mean they will always enjoy it - or finish.

Also H has a history of 'checking out' when things get stressful. He just shuts down and withdraws. He did it when our son was born. After 5 years of infertility he was scared to love him when I was pg in case we lost him. Then we both nearly died when I had him and when we got home H just kind of milled around in shock for two weeks, being selfish and leaving me to do everything. all of a sudden two weeks later he 'woke up' and was the best dad ever. Even did ALL the night feeds!

[This message edited by olwen at 8:09 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I think your story is NOT impossible... I believe my SAFWH's main goal with his primary OWs was a flirtatious, mutual admiration society. Despite being ing LTR with both these losers, the actual sexual contact was minimal. I really think it wasn't his main goal.
Of course, he was also using internet porn and visiting strip clubs.
The fact that he spent emotional energy on other women is JUST as painful to me as the sexual energy he spent.
The fact that your WS is going all out to determine his motivations, taking time to answer ALL your concerns, repeatedly, if necessary, is a great sign.


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3526 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Thank you scaredy cat -

I have really struggled with the EA too. It was the first thing I found out about in April. I was devastated.

The thing for me is I can understand how easily a friendship can turn into more, I don't know why, I just can.

It was the lies and betrayal that hurt most there, the fact he turned away from me.

I have always struggled more with the sexual side, maybe I am more like a man there. I have severe body issues, possible body dysmorphia and just the thought of him kissing her, touching her, pushes me to breaking point.

If he did fancy her so be it, I will find a way to cope but I don't see why he would keep insisting he didn't when the worst bit for me is known - he kissed her, touched her and had sex. Nothing is worse than that for me.

H is answering and explaining the best he can. He just needs to work out the bit that led him to decide to take her up on her offer.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
mychild
Member
Member # 40186
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Hi Olwen:

I've mainly skimmed your posts - sorry, have a toddler and can't read everything - BUT I like that you are very detailed! I like long posts as they really explain stuff, especially if they are well written.

Your WS made bad choices. Isn't that why we are all here?

Hopefully the letter will help you more.

Sometimes (I believe most - but mods hate generalities - sorry mods) men just do stuff sexually even when they don't particularly want to. But that doesn't mean your WS didn't really want to. He put himself there. So why? Obvious boundary issues - as all WS's have. But also, I think, that WS who put themselves in situation with work personnel become so much more attached to work people or friends because they are around them so much. You start caring for people and getting involved in their lives and then before you want to admit it - you get in these awful situations. It used to happen to me all the time. I've always worked with a lot of men. They'd tell me all their problems and I'd listen and try to help them and enjoy our friendship and then all of a sudden they felt they could start being closer with me. Then I'm like - how did they get the wrong idea????

How? Because I made them feel too comfortable - I know that, then I'd blame myself. But the truth is much more than that. I wanted to help = they needed attention/help/friendship/counseling..I'm a good listener and friend. But when you allow yourself to be all that - lonely people or other people with poor boundaries or self esteem issues start feeling sexual or attraction or need to touch or whatever...It really puts the person just trying to be nice is an awful situation - just terrible. You realize you didn't understand where things were going and now you have to either let them down gently or let them down not so gently or do something with that person... And it's worse if you are attractive or sexy...then so many people want some part of you..... So it's good your WS is getting rid of the bike. He should also keep all work situations and all females at extreme distance...it's the only way. Ok? I am/was attractive (older now) and it took me years to see that I CANNOT be friends with men. I am/was too attractive. They get the wrong idea. If I'm nice - they want me in a certain way. If I listen, they start thinking I'm interested...it goes on and on. Men and women, especially if they are attractive...you know, it's very difficult if not impossible to be friends. I fought this knowledge for years and then I finally submitted. I cannot be friends with men because they find it too tempting to be friends with me. Also, I was NEVER in an emotional affair. I was just there - listening. Little did I know - that with the opposite sex - it's rarely just listening to the person needing to be listened to. It's sounds obvious now that I'm writing it and I've been so horribly cheated on, but when you are a nice person and a people person - you just want to be there for people and get to know your co-workers/customers better. It's part of being human - it is...but then everyone is different and they think different things and have different agendas or they are lonely or whatever...

Now, with me, it's not that way. I can be friends with the most gorgeous or not so gorgeous man and just be friends. Why? Because it is wrong to cheat because I am in a committed relationship. And I would never do anything to jeopardize my relationship. AND I would NEVER want to devastate my husband. It was a no brainer for me. Temptation wasn't in the equation - I was happy with my relationship, even with ups or downs, I was glad to be in a committed relationship and respected my partner and never thought of cheating.

Unfortunately, my fucktard cheater husband took advantage of that and did whatever sexually he wanted for over 25 years.....

Awful, I know. But this really isn't about my husband. What I wanted to try and show you is that it could be that your WS is telling most of the truth. Maybe even all of it. I hope you get some closure on what you need to know.

Now what is really important is that he does and understands what I do and know. If you are attractive to a co-worker or friend or stranger - they may or will - come on to you or do something inappropriate whether or not you are attached. So unfortunately for your spouse - he must detach from most women in general from now on. He can be courteous and help them if they are in need but he really cannot open himself up or be intimate because there are so many needy people out there that are lonely or have no boundaries and he really doesn't know that until they try something.

So your husband, for the rest of your marriage, has to treat women as if they are not really friends of the marriage. He has to be nice and respectful and help them in need or if they are in danger or work with them - BUT NO INTIMACY. NO DISCUSSIONS OF PERSONAL PROBLEMS - EVER. Work related only. He has to think of ways to keep women from trying to entice him into personal discussions in a very nice and respectful way. Soon it will be second nature. He will be the very best worker and will come running home - to his mate - his best friend - his woman - his only woman/wife and to HIS family who he never wants to put into jeopardy again because he wanted to get to know or help or be friends another person. He can - he just has to make sure the person is a MAN.

[This message edited by mychild at 9:10 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Posts: 80 | Registered: Aug 2013
Kierst13
Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Affairs are not complex relationships. Waywards choose affairs because they want, what they want, when they want it. They are like a toddler in Target. Your WH is making the relationship with his AP much more complex than it was.

Was he in a mad passionate haze, not necessarily, but chances are he did want sex for one reason or another.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Mychild - thank you, that was spot on!

That's exactly how the EA started. He felt he couldn't talk to me about our problems but this nice young girl was a good listener...... sadly she told him he could do better and then went on to show him how great and happy her life was and how he should have the same blah blah.

He has NEVER worked with a woman before, let alone a maneater like her who has about 7 men on the go at a time!

I also worked 13 years in a large office and found men getting too close to me, sharing their troubles, paying compliments etc. I have probably come close to an EA myself not knowing what they were! Thinking I was just being nice Neither of us had ever heard the term EA til I tried to show him how far over the line he had gone and looked up text affairs on line and discovered the term EA.

Of course his was different. It involved lying to me that she wasn't working directly with him, they were texting round the clock etc.. It went Waaaaay too far. The text records show gaps of days at a time when it slowed right down or stopped. These were the times he tried to stop ot but she kept insisting they were 'just friends' so he felt stupid asking her to stop. No boundaries and being useless at saying no got him into this whole mess.

He now has a wall firmly in place between him and other women. I have seen evidence of it in not giving our female neighbour a life and telling me when my friend hugged him. All a good start.

[This message edited by olwen at 9:08 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, November 18th (Monday)

kierst13 - thank you for your comment but I kindly disagree.

I think affairs can be VERY complex. Getting caught up in something then realising it's spiralling out of control.

I am sure it can be simple, see someone, fancy them, want to get in their pants and doing so with a smile on your face and no thought for your bs but I really don't think that fits my H.

He struggled, he lost weight, wasn't sleeping, became ill. He tried stopping it but she convinced him they were doing nothing wrong, that he needed someone to talk to and she was there all day every day and texting him round the clock.

It's not as simple as he saw it, he wanted it, he took it. otherwise I am sure he would have done it again and again not hated the sight of both her and himself afterwards.

yes he did choose to take what she offered, maybe he couldn't resist the temptation when it was laid out like that. maybe he wanted to know what it would be like with someone new. I won't know til he knows. My theory is it had a lot more to do with her wanting him and making him feel wanted than it did about him wanting her sexually.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, November 18th (Monday)

In order to move forward you need to come to an understanding that works for you. We BS sit and try to make sense of the nonsense, it will never really happen. We weren't there. Our WS weren't taking notes on every thought and feeling that they had. Thoughts and feelings in the moment and in hindsight can be completely different things.

We sit here and make judgments and suggestions based on words on a screen. We are not there to his facial expressions or body language. We are not there to hear the tone and inflection in his voice. You alone are the judge and jury. We are more like the prosecuting attorney, asking questions and creating doubt.

Watch the work. If he is minimizing the story it would be to make the A not seem so bad in your eyes and his own. If he truly accepts how destructive his thoughts and behaviors were and actively works to change them, then it doesn't seem like minimizing to me. You have shown quite a few examples of how he is owning the situation.

His story mimics my fWS. The attention is what she craved. There were 2 LTA that didn't physical because they didn't need to. Both sides were ok with that. There were 2 shorter PAs because that was the progression of the attention. During the last PA there were months of large amounts of text messages. That attention is what she wanted. On the time line and phone bills I can see that as the frequency of the texts went down the physical stuff started. She was selling herself physically to continue to get the cheap emotional validation. Sure there was excitement in the physical but it wasn't the goal it was the cost. During the PAs her self hatred and anxiety skyrocketed. During both she started starving herself to the point of skin and bones and she also started cutting herself. Truth or not, this is my understanding, and I can live with it.

Her goal is to find why she needed the validation to begin with. Why she was willing to abandon herself for it. How she can seek healthy validation from herself. And how to build boundaries against unhealthy validation.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2579 | Registered: Aug 2012
lost_in_toronto
Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I think Wondertwin gave you great advice.

You know, my WS TTd me for months. He said he had sex with her once, and then ended things. For various reasons, I just knew that wasn't the truth. I knew he was still lying to me, and it was driving us both crazy. I would ask for the truth, and he would say he'd given it to me, and I just KNEW he was still withholding.

The day that he finally broke down and told me everything, I knew in an instant that he had told me everything. I can't explain it well, but it was like for months I had been living with a different version of my WS and the minute he told me the truth it was like he was the same man again.

What I am saying is, you know your WS best olwen. If you really sit with the letter he gives you, and it gives you peace and you believe him, and you know in your heart - then it is okay to have faith in your own judgement.


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1665 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Olwen, when I asked what he was doing to become safe, I didn't mean the stuff you've listed---most of which is external (even if some do address his safety and yours). Taking your son on business trips is WONDERFUL--don't misunderstand. But it does NOTHING to address his brokenness.

I mean what internal work is he doing? What is he doing, in IC? What is he doing to explore the brokenness you've both accepted as the reason behind his vulnerability to this affair?

It's not enough to find the why. He needs to repair it. If he does not, he will remain vulnerable. Trust me on this---you WILL have another d-day unless he does the hard, hard work.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8667 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, November 18th (Monday)

solus sto - I see what you mean, forgive my misunderstanding.

He is dying to get into IC, he wants to get to the root of it. I am pretty sure we already have a lot of it though. We talk every day and he has posted about it in wayward. He is looking at his past, his relationships with his family and previous women.

He was cheated on in his first relationship and he was deprived of ANY affection from his family. They are manipulative and cruel.

His main focus for now is setting up boundaries. we discussed them but as my list shows he has added his own too.

He has looked at how he fell into the affair, how he avoids conflict etc. He has seen how he doesn't share his emotions with me, he never has cos at home they were ignored.

He can only do so much alone, but when the bike sells he will do IC.

For now he has set his boundaries, is working to give me all the answers I need, is working on being a better husband and father. Learning more about when he feels he can't say no and speaking up more and more. He is telling me his troubles and letting me in on his emotions.

For me the key thing is he is never really away from me. He loves nothing more now than being home with his family and everything else including work is just a way to give us a better life. We are his priority now.

The other big thing is he talks! My God does he talk. I have gone from having Neanderthal man grunts for 18years to real heart to hearts every single day. HE even comes home on his lunch and we talk some more. He holds nothing back now.

I hope this was the kind of stuff you meant? He also read how to help your spouse heal from your affair and will be posting much more when he has done the letter for me.

Sorry for this but I said to him this morning I don't know if I can carry on using SI as they just don't believe you at all and I know at least 90% of what you have told me is true. He surprised me by saying even it they don't believe I won't stop coming on and I don't want you to because it really helps.

That has to be good.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Chico - you're quite right.

His actions, demeanour, and heartbreak are clear to see. He breaks down every day over some part of what he has done.

He looks right into my eyes and I can see the shame and self hatred clearly. HE is repulsed by his actions and wants to move heaven and earth to fix things.

I am realising through all this writing just how much I do believe what he has told me so far. I have sat with that story for 6 months now and although I have had my doubts it's what we both keep coming back to.

I have to remember I have known him for 18years. I know the scraped he gets into like buying a flatscreen tv from two cowboys in a supermarket carpark - guess what happened there lol. £200 gone in a puff of smoke.

He is very trusting and naÔve and so desperate to be loved and wanted he will do things he doesn't want to to get that validation.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Olwen,

Namely he cannot say no to anybody. He gets walked all over at work, he will not say no or tackle the boss for overworking him, or even being rude or aggressive to him. He hates to even ask for his annual leave in case the boss grumbles. He HATES anyone being cross with him, cold with him - any form of rejection at all. if a neighbour needs help in the middle of his meal, he will leave it and go help - not say wait 20 mins he will just flat out leave his meal. He has always been this way. He won't stand up to his nightmare of a mother,

How can he stand up to you (i.e. tell you the truth) when you don't want to accept the truth?

Why does what he says have to be a lie? Is it not possible my weak husband was just that weak and not in a mad passion? Why does he have to have loved every second of what he did.

Because when he inches closer to the truth, you have a meltdown and then "text bomb" him at work with your insecurities.

Remember this last week after he confessed the truth?

And yet you wonder why I don't believe a word you say. How could you do this to me? ~ it's not been a good day. Not eaten again and took my temper out on my kitchen door so have a very battered hand right now. Made me feel better though. I was so worried it might upset or trigger someone but I had to get it out somewhere safe with people I know will understand. I kept texting h my angry thoughts

He tells you the truth. You hurt yourself. You stop eating. You text bomb him at work with your angry thoughts.

Have you made yourself safe for him to tell you the truth??


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, November 18th (Monday)

lost in Toronto - you have helped me see I most likely DO have the truth now.

What you describe is how I felt when it was 'just' an EA. I knew there was more even though he swore up hill and down dale there wasn't. I could see it in his eyes.

He was distant, snappy, arrogant, insulting. A monster in fact. I didn't know who this evil man was. The reason - he was hiding the PA.

The day he told me of the PA it all came pouring out. He told me every detail. How did he masturbate her, how long over her knickers, how long inside - I won't go on but incredibly graphic questions were answered equally graphically.

he hated it but gave me what I needed.

I have doubted his story but those parts are coming out now. Eg why did he sit in that car park with an inkling she may make a move if he didn't want sex - because he wanted to know she wanted him, he was too caught up in wanting that to think how he would refuse her though. He really wasn't thinking rationally. I hate to say it but he is not the world's greatest thinker. HE reacts, doesn't plan, goes with the flow - then gets caught on the hop.

The more I think about it the more it all makes sense. If I stop fighting it and telling myself he MUST have wanted it He MUST have fancied her. If I listen to him it does click. It's stupid but believe me he has got into trouble in the past for not thinking - many many times.

It's believable to me because I know him. I need to remember this.

I will see what his letter says, as you suggest, and see if it does make the last things click into place.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Ladies first - thank you for your post.

I came to that conclusion myself in another thread,

One thing I have realised but he never said is that I have not made it easy for him to be honest with me over the years. I am NOT blaming myself. He did not mention it. However I realised today that he seems to want to always tell me what I want to hear. I don't make it easy for him to tell me stuff. I tried to kill myself ffs! How could he feel able to tell me more? My therapist wants me to learn how to manage my extreme emotion and I think I must!

Just an observation I have made about myself. So I am trying to listen to him and not freak out.

He says this is why he changed his story to wanting her, cos it's what everyone on here said it MUST have been so I wouldn't listen when he tried to tell me the truth was that he didn't want her.

I am trying to work on that, it's hard.

He says the truth is what he has told me about not wanting it but that he changed it after I insisted he must be lying cos no one on here believed him. he didn't feel able to stick to the truth when I was adamant he was lying cos of what I read on here.

What makes you think what he told me last week was the truth and not the original story? I was just as devastated by his original story and he never changed that until I threatened to leave him. I think it's more likely the first story is correct and the second was to stop me leaving.

I guess I am just too confusable and easily led myself!

I am going to see what his letter says and make my own mind up.

[This message edited by olwen at 10:11 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Now to the facts, disgusting as they are. It's what he said a few weeks ago and took back cos he didn't want to believe it. He DID fancy her, not enough that he would have been with her if he was single but for an affair she was perfect. Not interested in commitment just a bit of 'easy fun'. She was attractive enough to want to have sex with though. He DID want to have sex with her. I know a lot of you won't believe all of this but I really do. Basically he wanted whatever she offered. He resented me for my illness and the break down of our relationship

He DID fancy her. He did want her.

I am going to see what his letter says and make my own mind up.

Good! Great! I encourage you to focus on BOTH/AND ... not Either/Or.

But can you clarify what "moving forward" looks like in your own mind?

"He BOTH fancied her AND loved me and our son, so now we can focus on strong boundaries and an equitable marriage."

Can your bipolar mind make peace with BOTH/AND? Can you accept BOTH/AND? Or will you remain stuck in Either/Or?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Ladies first I find that HIGHLY insulting!

Can your bipolar mind make peace with BOTH/AND? Can you accept BOTH/AND? Or will you remain stuck in Either/Or?

Yes I am bipolar, yes I am open about it - no I don't deserve to be mocked because of it!

I am not handling this well. It is not easy to handle infidelity when you are well. It is not easy to handle it when you have a mental illness and are trying to make sense of a changing story!

Why do you only believe the 'he fancied her' version?

Is it not more likely that the 'he didn't fancy her' story is true as it is the one he gave me off his own back from the beginning. I believed it but when I came here with my doubts I was told he was lying.

I took this to heart and tackled it head on. He panicked and said whatever he thought he should to make me stay even if that meant lying to agree with the majority on here.

I am sorry I have doubts, I am sorry my opinions and thoughts are changeable, I am sorry one day I am confident and wanting to move on and the next in pieces and trying to hang on. Sorry if I am not following how you think I should deal with this!


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
Offhispedestal
Member
Member # 32528
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, November 18th (Monday)

"Surely if his story only changes when I threaten to leave him then his original story must be the truth? When I say I don't believe it he agrees with almost anything I say so I don't leave."

This stuck out to me. I know it must be tough to admit something like this. I just can't imagine someone changing their story ONLY because you threaten to leave. If someone is not guilty of committing a murder, I'm sorry but I'm not going to change the story because you threaten to leave.

Olwen: "I have always struggled more with the sexual side, maybe I am more like a man there. I have severe body issues, possible body dysmorphia and just the thought of him kissing her, touching her, pushes me to breaking point."

If there is more to the story or if he actually felt different and admitted that he took it because it was offered etc...
And if he truly knows how you feel about your sexual side, if he understands about your body dysmorphia. He may well be terrified. If he is remorseful as you said, he just may not want to push you over the edge. Husbands are theMr Fix It All, sometimes they don't give full disclosure because they don't want to hurt you more. It's a cop out , excuse etc. He may completely feel he's doing this for your own good even though you clearly can't move forward because some things just don't make sense or 100% believable. Please be prepared for more trickle truth or for the same story. Either way you may not be satisfied and there might be more questions. I have body issues myself. Sometimes what I see in the mirror is not reality. I know this and I make a huge effort to see the real me. I often get bigger clothes thinking it will be a little tight only to try it on and it's 2-3 inches loose in the waist! My daughters always tell me their guy friends think I'm a milf, some have flirted with me! I don't know where that issue comes from. My mom is one reason. I have compared myself to MOW physically many times. The truth is this has NOTHING to do with me. It's on him for doing what he did.
I can understand how it can be SOOO difficult to believe that
And accept it. I got to hear more details than I should have. I thought getting as much detail about how he felt, what he thought, what he wanted to do, what he thought when he saw her etc.... Would help me understand, cope and move forward.
I feel that most betrayed spouses will never get 100% of the story. One important thing is what your WS is doing now, his actions. My H has done so much in actions. You are beautiful. Some of the world's beautiful woman don't believe they are.
The gift of R is the most meaningful gift I have ever given my husband. No other gift can compare. The journey is a lot of work, a rollercoaster of emotions. Some days you see sunshine and 2 days later you feel like digging a hole, jumping in and never coming out. Days that you are happy and days that anger consumes you. I thought I had completely lost my mind at one point. Thank God for SI. I was able to read so many stories. I was able to see I'm not alone, I'm not crazy, what I feel and how I feel is normal... In the long run I will be ok. I know this will never leave you.
One day it's not going to ruin my day, week... It's a part of who I am but not who I am soley. I'm not how I was the first month after dday. I'm not where I want to be but I know I am and will get there. I just don't have the date and time of arrival. It's like our house.
It's so much nicer after all the improvements we've done in 10 yrs, but we are never finished improving.


(((Olwen)))




ME-44
WH-45
Married 24


2Beautiful daughters
DD 6/26/10 (he broke down & confessed)
DD#2 3/14/11 H in OW's car
TT 7/1/11 (NC broken, through emails)

In R


Posts: 634 | Registered: Jun 2011
WhatsRight
Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I believe that aside from catching him in a blatant, provable lie about his "story", or someone delivering photos taken after he said it was over, you will likely NEVER know for 100% positive.

Not if you feel it in your gut.

Not if every wise poster on SI agrees.

It sounds like you have (for now - until something makes you think otherwise) decided to believe him.

So, I say get on with the healing. Carefully proceed. Let him know that you are going way out on a limb to trust this story, but that you are willing to proceed if there is IC, and if there is no TT later that disproves his "story".
(Or whatever your conditions are).

It is a hard truth to have to accept that we will never know 100% whether or not we have the real story.

HUGS

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 10:44 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I insisted that my H wanted the OW more times than I care to remember. That would make sense. How can you have sex with no spark, no desire, no sensuality?

If my H would just admit that he wanted her, I wouldn't get people on SI saying he was lying and I was rugsweeping. SI posters would stop insinuating that I was being deliberately dense and that H was manipulating me.

But H has told me the same story 1,000 times. Now he tells it calmly and patiently and with the insight of 10 months of IC. No flirting, no desire, no romance, no sexual high, no satisfaction. He didn't fancy her--he pitied her, feared her telling his boss or telling me, he thought she was his friend, he felt compelled to rescue her--but he did not desire her.

When I say "you must have wanted it" he says, "I can't tell you that because it's not true." I see how your H could have caved and told you what you wanted/needed to hear.

I recommend:

1. Stop discussing this on SI because most people here have a WS who is messed up in a different way and will not understand.
2. After your H has been in IC for a few weeks, go with him and get his IC's perspective. (Or ask H to give IC permission to meet with you alone.)

What matters is that your H tells you the truth, owns his shit and fixes his damage. People whose WS is an NPD, serial cheater, SA, CL, AM, or just felt entitled to hot sex on the side, may not get where we're coming from.

Be patient. Turn toward your WH.

Edited because my post sounded like my H is somehow "better" than WS's who dig the sex. He's not better, just messed up in a different way.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 8:17 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, November 18th (Monday)

Olwen,

Gently here Ė a person doesnít lie and make the story worse because someone threatens to leave. And him having the same story all this time? That means nothing. It might be true, it might not, but a liar isnít going to just change his story for no reason. Once the story is created, itís created.

As far as him wanting it or not, I donít know how he would have had sex if he didnít want it. If a male truly does not want to have sex with a person, and is thinking that when the act is happening, then certain body parts donít work Ė which makes sex impossible. He wanted it, on some level, or it wouldnít have happened, period.

Iím really perplexed why it matters so much. Is him having sex with someone to make them happy any better than him having sex to make himself happy? In the end, he still had sex with someone else, and it wasnít rape.

Iím sorry Ė but he finally admitted something to you and you went off the deep end. You told us you were leaving him. You stopped eating. You punched doors. You became very angry and bombarded him with nasty angry texts. I think itís pretty clear to see why he would go back to the first story.

Iím just not seeing why his thoughts matter so much. If my H had sex with someone because they expected him to, Iíd be very angry. I would wonder why her wants beat my wants, and what will he do the next time someone wants him? Thatís a weakness that I couldnít bear.

Just a few thoughts Ė not saying Iím write ☺


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, November 18th (Monday)

off his pedestal - thank you for your reply.

I have spoken to him again and he is adamant he didn't fancy or want her. he is still working on his letter to me but that much he knows. I asked if he was too scared to tell me the truth and he said he was more scared if he didn't tell me what everyone on here said was true that I would leave him.

You have some very wise words. I know I will never know 100% but this story sits a good 90-95% trued with me. I know he sounds gullible and naÔve but he really is.

What's right - you hit the nail on the head. When I get this letter, whatever it says, it's time to move on. Start rebuilding our marriage with this new husband who is already vastly improved, despite what he has done he has since shown me glimpses of the man he can be. Once we have the story written down we can address it and make the focus us again.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, November 18th (Monday)

I don't think its impossible that he's telling you the truth. I think its hard to give advice without your own experiences shining through and since a lot of us were lied to so much, its prob going to.be why your getting a lot of disbelief in.his story. No one knows your ws like you do so if you think his story is consistent with his personality, then hopefully you are getting the truth. I doubt if any ws really tell the entire story without some things left out but if you feel comfortable with what youve been told, then that's what really matters. Good luck to you .both


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5021 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, November 18th (Monday)

The only thing I want to say to you is I truly hope that the rest of your days are exactly what you want and if it is with your WS then let them be the very best.

I see however in all of your writings, or maybe I have missed it, but what if you find out now or down the road that he has not been truthful? What are your consequences? And can you actually follow thru?

Many times a BS is swirling around their WS and desparately trying to get answers and trying to fix things but they have no plan for if you find out your WS has been still lying.

Your strength will come when you can find a balance between wanting your marriage but not settling for being made a fool of...not letting it define who you are if you find out down the road that it has all been a lie, I hope you can find that balance.


Posts: 5642 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Sailor girl - I can't thank you enough. You have made me see not every ws follows the same cookie cutter pattern. I really appreciate you standing up against the crowd.

I think being on here has done my marriage more harm than good.

I knew deep down he was telling the truth but wanted someone to tell me it was possible, I should not have needed that, I know my H. I listened to the nay sayers and as a result nearly walked out on my marriage cos H wouldn't admit to what they said was true. Then when he did so as not to lose me suddenly everyone believed him but I just got more confused cos I could tell when I questioned him it was not the truth

I have decided to leave SI.

Thanks to all who have been open minded and supported me.

[This message edited by olwen at 8:37 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
Kierst13
Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, November 18th (Monday)

I hope you find the answers you need.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
HormonalWoman
Member
Member # 29265
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Are you trying to justify his story to yourself or to us?

The things you said that describe his personality, they describe the personality of numerous waywards. He is no different to any other wayward partner and their issues that help them along the way in their affairs.

A lot of waywards find themselves drawn into affairs that were not planned, a lot didn't think anything would happen but wanted to see if it could and when it does they go along with it. Everyone that goes a long with it is a cheater regardless of WHY they went along with it.

If he didn't want or fancy her he would never have been drawn into an EA with her in the first place imo. I also find it hard to believe he could physically perform if he didn't actually want her.

I think that maybe you are trying to justify things to yourself because what you want to believe (that he didn't really want too but was 'forced' too) somehow makes it not as bad. The bottom line is it actually makes very little difference, he did it, he is a cheater like any other.


Together 13 yrs
BW - Me
WH - Him
3 Children
DD 20th June 2010 actual affair was early 2008 for roughly 10 wks.

Posts: 244 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Oh olwen. Honey,I see you desperately trying to believe him. You have talked yourself into it. I get it. Most of us here do.

You do what you feel you need to do. If you feel you need to believe him,that's ok.

I DO think it's positive that he told you he wanted you to continue to read and post here. It DOES bother me that he is PMing people instead of posting..unless,of course,you have transparency from him and you have access to his PM's here? You said you were upset that he didn't come back and answer any of the questions on his thread..and you wanted him to answer them because they were important questions..but he didn't. And now he is PMing people here and getting advice..which is all well and good..but I think part of you was hoping,like many BS's, that you would have some insight into his thoughts..and you were hoping to try to understand him a little more,based on his posts here on SI..right? The FWS's here on SI cut through the crap..through the excuses..and push new WS's to dig deep. And we, their BS's, want to see how they(our WS) responds to those hard questions. So I understand why you're unhappy that he is PMing instead of posting. Maybe you could make posting a requirement of R?


I agree with the above..if he didn't fancy her..he wouldn't have been drawn into an EA..or the resulting PA.

Olwen...if the truth is that he liked her..or thought at the time he liked her..that he wanted to kiss her because he liked her..that he wanted to touch her *there* because he wanted to touch her there..that he had sex with her because he wanted to have sex with her....then what? If he tells you that he did it all because he liked her and he wanted to..then what?


I think you need to take a break from worrying about him so much. Let him take care of his issues. Let him do his own digging. You need to take care of you. You need to start healing. What have you done for yourself today? Are you taking care of yourself? Are you doing things that make you happy? When was the last time you met a friend for lunch?

You are very focused on him. Stop. Turn that focus on YOU. YOU need to heal. It's a long,painful journey,from dday to a place of peace. Isn't it time you started loving yourself again?

(((((olwen)))))

[This message edited by confused615 at 2:30 PM, November 18th (Monday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7390 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
devasted30
Member
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Olwen - I've pretty well read every post here and I bet you are extremely confused and have a huge headache.
I think like some have said, you need to take a step back and take a break.
Then - probably after you get your timeline - think long and hard about it and about what you can live with. It sounds like you love your WS very much and I think because of that, you can forgive him his infidelity. That is what you have to come to terms with. He cheated - no matter why, how etc., the truth is - he cheated.
Now, can you live with that? Can you still love him? Do you still want to make your marriage work? If the answers to these 3 questions are all YES, go for it. Stop writing and asking our opinions - we are definitely biased - we (almost) all have been lied to - tt'd and cheated on. Only you can really assess your situation because only you know deep down the truth....whether it is what your WS says or not. I do not think any of us can give you what you want - none of us can confirm what your WS is telling you. Decide on your course of action and do it. Don't keep trying to convince everyone else - if you believe it that NEEDS to be enough.

Posts: 1142 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, November 18th (Monday)

The most important question is: What do you want?

Other questions include:

1) Do you believe him? If this is the truth, it's pretty odd, but that doesn't make in untrue. You ask SI if we believe him, and we say either a) no, or b) it's very difficult to believe him - but we know less than you do.

It's your life, and you have to take your own risks. At some point everyone in chooses to believe his WS, even though we know we've been lied to terribly by the person we now choose to believe. That doesn't make sense - but we do it, and I think it works out decently more often than not.

2) Why not do a polygraph? It sounds like your big question is whether he's told the truth, and that's a yes/no question eminently suitable for a poly. It could do the trick for you.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10055 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, November 18th (Monday)

The bottom line is it actually makes very little difference, he did it, he is a cheater like any other.

For me, the bottom line is: My husband says the cheating sex was bad. Either he is lying to me, or he is telling the truth. Whether I'm getting lies or the truth makes a huge difference. I can not R with a man who is lying to me.

Honey,I see you desperately trying to believe him. You have talked yourself into it. I get it. Most of us here do.
You do what you feel you need to do. If you feel you need to believe him,that's ok.

This was written to Olwen, not me, and I'm sure it was written out of caring. It sounded patronizing to me, though, and I wanted to respond in case someone else reading this thread has a WS like mine.

I actually did not want to believe that my H masturbated to get hard and continued to masturbate during sex so that he could stay hard. I did not want to believe that he disassociated from the situation so that he could have mechanical sex with a pitiful woman who he did not find attractive in any way. What kind of messed-up do you have to be to do that? A kind that I knew nothing about and didn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. A kind that can result from child abuse, sexual abuse, or neglect. A self-destructive compulsion combined with a confirmation
of worthlessness that scrambles rational thought and is quite frankly disturbing.

Messed-up people do messed up shit.

As far as him wanting it or not, I donít know how he would have had sex if he didnít want it. If a male truly does not want to have sex with a person, and is thinking that when the act is happening, then certain body parts donít work Ė which makes sex impossible. He wanted it, on some level, or it wouldnít have happened, period.

Iím really perplexed why it matters so much.

It matters so much because the truth matters. My H "wanted it on some level" but it was not a sexual level. OW was not arousing to him. I'm not going to go into the whole background, but women have sex when they don't feel desire, what makes people think men are so different?

then certain body parts donít work Ė which makes sex impossible.

Actually, people can emotionally feel horrible and still have the signs of physical arousal. Something that is terribly confusing for the survivors of sexual abuse is that they did not want what was happening, did not feel desire, and yet their body responded by getting physically aroused. Please try to imagine what kind of mind-fuck that would be before you say that it is "impossible" for men to be hard unless they "want" to have sex.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sidney2718
New Member
Member # 41190
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Olwen, I find your husband's story credible and I accept that he's working to regain your faith.

I think it would help if you determined what you need him to do in order to restore some of your faith in him. If he can do that, go for a full reconciliation. I don't mean to sound crass, but if it fails, divorce is still possible then.

Yes, it means making yourself vulnerable. But I do get the feeling that you would like to reconcile. The gamble might be worth it.

Of course he should be told that if he's not come clean, it means the end of the marriage.


Posts: 41 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Northeast US
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, November 18th (Monday)

I just do not have time to read the whole thread right now, but I just wanted to say that I believe what he is saying could be the truth. I'm not saying it IS the truth because I have no idea but I can see it being true.

People here say all the time that so many waywards are "broken." Well, here is a man admitting to being broken and even taking it a step further and explaining how he is broken. That seems like a good start to me.

Watch him now and let him take the reins. If he is being honest, you will be able to tell that, probably right quick.

Good luck to you both. See if he follows up on that IC.


Posts: 1411 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 3:34 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Good morning all,

Feel a bit embarrassed I said I was going to leave SI yesterday in my last post.

I was hurt by the comment someone made about my 'bipolar mind' accepting things and I felt I was being made to feel stupid for believing H.

I am not going to let that one personal comment stop me posting here or let people's differing views stop me posting. I have got too much help from SI and I know it comes from a well meaning place and people are speaking from their own experiences.

Thank you to all the people who spoke up to say his story is possible, it really helped.

We talked last night and I really feel I know what I am dealing with now.

I think I am going to pop back over to reconciliation and work on rebuilding our marriage now.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
leftoolate
Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 5:03 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Hi Olwen, sorry to be so late to the game, but I feel this is more at home on this post. I hope you don't mind a wayward's information - if you do, please ignore this.

Once my husband finally knew the truth, 4 1/2 years ago, he kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. Understandably: my story went from 'one kiss' to 'oral sex' - why wouldn't it progress to full sex? Of course he doubted. And it was afwul, even for me, from the outside. I wanted to stop the doubts, just so he could start processing, healing, feeling better. I can remember the urge I felt to tell him that I did have full sex, it was a very compelling thought, but I didn't do it. Looking at it now, I see that it wasn't a 'noble' truth, it was still selfish: I'd rather have my husband doubt me than leave me, and at least with the truth I still had a chance of him staying in the marriage. He's still here. He's not waiting for that particular shoe anymore, though he probably wouldn't be too surprised if some other shoe dropped out of nowhere .

So, yes, I can imagine someone telling a 'worse' lie rather than the 'lesser' truth. Thing is, he does need to look at that as well. It may tie into the conflict avoidance/need to please/external validation that helped fuel the affair, but he needs to figure that out for himself. If he keeps telling 'any old story' just to conform to some external standard, you will not be exempt from that, and you will not feel (or be) safe. I hope he can go to a good IC soon, that would probably help a lot.

Good luck in Reconciliation.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 817 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:33 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

slight t/j-

Sailorgirl...Im sorry you misunderstood. As you said,it was written from a place of caring, as are all of my posts here.

Did I want to believe MY HUSBAND sucked some OM's dick? Um..not even a little bit. But he did. A few months after dday,as my shock wore off, I was literally staring at myself in the mirror several times a day saying out loud," he did this...he REALLY did this."


So..I completely get not wanting to believe what our WS's really did. Im well aware that fucked up people do fucked up things. If you know my story, then you know I live with a man who did some pretty horrific things. And has worked very hard to be a different,better man.


I didn't mean to sound in any way patronizing.


-end t/j


Good morning olwen. Im glad you are feeling better. What are you going to do for yourself today?


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7390 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Confused615 - I am determines to get round to some sewing today. I do large intricate cross stitch patterns and have been working on one for a few years. I haven't been making time for it lately so am looking forward to a couple of hours relaxation. I know your posts came from a caring place so don't worry about it.

Left too late - that was very helpful thank you. I can't believe I didn't recognise his conflict avoidance in the way his story kept changing. I think you're quite right and I will bring it up with him today as an example, thanks for pointing it out.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
cantgetup
Member
Member # 36146
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

My biggest concern would be this letter and timeline. First, given all that you are saying about him doing everything to fix this, I would have liked to see him tell you this all in person. Not make you wait for a letter and timeline. Having said that, I do get that sometimes we BS want written timelines. Because then they can't wiggle out of that. So that part is good. But honestly, he's had more than enough time to get you this. When is it coming? I was be concerned about that. I mean, is they are documents if truth, they shouldn't take any time at all to write out. There needs to be no thought or thinking. Just that cold hard facts. Now, before he decides to change his mind about being 100% truthful. I think you said he was going to add his intersection on this as part of it. Great! But that can be a third document, which I agree could take more time. He should be allowed that time to get it right. But as for the timeline and letter---that needs to be now. Just saying what I would want and expect in your situation.
Take good care, ok?

Posts: 314 | Registered: Jul 2012
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Cantgetup - thank you, I have had the story since he confessed in june, he was very detailed. A few new things have cropped up though so he wanted to work through it by writing it down, also so I have it to refer to. Yes it has taken too long but we have been so up and down and on again off again.

I am getting it now and that's what matters. He was working on it til late last night.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

related t/j:

Confused,
Thanks for answering, and I absolutely know you were coming from a place of helpfulness and understanding of betrayal.

I think my post was unclear. I didn't just mean that I didn't want to believe my that my H had an affair--of course I didn't, but I accepted it. I meant that I did not want to believe that the sexual contact was bad. I did not want to believe that he was messed up enough to have sex when he wasn't turned-on. To compulsively arouse himself physically even though he genuinely did not want to have sex.

It's not a relief to know that the sex was awful. It's not what I desperately want to believe. It's actually very disturbing and really sad that my sweet man would do something so gross, destructive, detached, and full of self-hatred.

It's very hard to accept, and it goes along with accepting that my H was damaged to the core by child abuse of all kinds.

edited to add: I'm not saying that I think this is exactly what happened with your, H, Olwen. Just that it is complicated. And it is possible for men to be aroused physically, but not emotionally or mentally. It is possible for sex to feel bad.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 7:15 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Thanks sailor girl - I knew just what you meant, it's hard to deal with either way isn't it


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Yes, it is. I think you and your H can both be proud of how hard you are both working to build a true and shared understanding of what happened.

I still have days when I want it to be as simple as "He was hot for her, she was hot for him, so they had hot sex." But all three of those things are false.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
lost_in_toronto
Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

I'm glad what I wrote helped you, olwen.

I am also glad you have chosen to discard the personal statement that was made, and stay on SI. Remember that for all the collective wisdom and experience on SI, your own personal journey is just that. Yours. Personal. You know what advice feels right; choose that to take away.

T/J -

Thanks, sailorgirl, for addressing that statement about body parts working. You did it with a lot of tact.


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1665 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
lynnm1947
Member
Member # 15300
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

2) Why not do a polygraph? It sounds like your big question is whether he's told the truth, and that's a yes/no question eminently suitable for a poly. It could do the trick for you.

^This^

If your need to know whether he's telling the truth is so strong, a polygraph could set your mind at rest. If that's what it takes, find the $$$ and do it.

But......if the polygraph says he lied, what will be your next move?


Age: 64..ummmmmmm, no...............65....no...oh, hell born in 1947. You figure it out!

"I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." Garth Brooks


Posts: 7205 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Toronto, Canada
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Lostintoronto - thank you and yes I thought that too. Thanks sailor girl.

[This message edited by olwen at 8:40 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)

lynnm- thanks for your reply,

I decided against a polygraph early on, 1) we can't afford it 2) they are not completely accurate.

Now - I feel I have enough of the truth to move on.

If it turned out he was madly in love or lust or whatever I have decided I would still stay after seeing the changes in him. It would be harder for me but yes I would stay so I am going to focus on that now.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 720 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 58