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User Topic: A-HA! The AP Is a Sociopath, Interesting
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, November 25th (Monday)

once they set their eyes on you as their main target (their “prize”), psychopaths typically engage in whirlwind romances. They can’t get enough of you. They want to see you and make love to you all the time. They flatter you constantly.
“love bombed,”
We tell our children not to approach strangers who try to lure them with nice words and candy. Those individuals are probably social predators, pedophiles.
Most normal people don’t love bomb. They do not engage in over-the-top flattery; they do not make promises of eternal love right off the bat; they don’t call you the love of their lives without even knowing you. These are patterns of behavior that should be suspicious because they are very common lures for predators.
The flattery, declarations of love and romantic encounters bond and attract the victims to them. This process is not reciprocal. Since psychopaths attach to others without emotionally bonding to them, they only bond the target, not the predator.
“a relationship of inevitable harm.”
When victims are still in the honeymoon phase of the psychopathic bond they rarely believe that the person who appears to woo and romance them so much, the one who claims to adore them, intends to use, control and ultimately destroy them. But as the relationship with a psychopath unfolds, this underlying goal becomes more obvious.
http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/the-psychopaths-hook-love-bombing-sex-and-flattery/

I found this article and the one about sociopaths wanting to "win" at all costs to resonate very much with our situation. I know this isn't the case with all AP's. But I am sure that this will resonate with many, too. I am in no way saying that my FWH isn't 100% responsible for his choice. No, he 100% chose to fuck a sociopath and bring its cray cray into our lives.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Marathonwaseasy
Member
Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, November 25th (Monday)

Oh yes - this is the OW to a fecking tee
With the added desire to destroy me because I had the audacity to be successful

As you say FWH had a choice but these psychopaths are seriously skilled manipulators and he was damn easy prey being seriously mentally ill at the bloody time

So, next question - I know she's a psychopath. She can never be happy and will die alone as psychopaths end up with no friends or family wanting to hang around. How do I let go of the overwhelming desire to stab her?


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, November 25th (Monday)

In The Sociopath Next Door, Martha Stout raises the following excellent question: “If sociopaths are so focused on their goals and so driven to win, then why do they not win all the time?” She goes on to explain that, basically, sociopaths are losers: “For they do not (win or succeed in life).
They don’t view “winning” in the positive sense of achieving success–be it successful long-term relationships or professional endeavors–but rather as causing others to lose.
Sociopaths would rather win by becoming notorious for their crimes rather than famous for their achievements.
the distorted logic of sociopathy. It’s an “I win if you lose” mentality.
Perhaps a sociopath’s only fear is being unmasked as evil, because that exposes the nature of his game. As Harrison Koehli eloquently puts it, ”[Psychopaths] hang on to their masks with such conviction because they are predators, and without them, they cannot survive… To let down that facade would reveal that they are little more than unfeeling intraspecies predators that feed off the pain and suffering of others and thus destroy their chances of feeding.
Sociopaths play a very dangerous game, whereby they win by losing.

This last quote is one of the many reasons, I feel, that BS's can't understand some AP's. Who the hell thinks like that?

My FWH ended the affair 6 years before I found out. He ended it when he realized that he wasn't the one who had the control and started to fear what AP would do. He came to realize that the AP was going to destroy him. When the AP finally outed the affair (pretending to be its dead ex-husband ) and FWH admitted the truth, he told me he knew it wanted to destroy him, to ruin his life that was when he knew he had to end it. AP also wanted to hurt me. I didn't know it, never did anything to it. FWH tells me that he was fearful that AP might physically hurt me. Gee, thanks for the warning that some cray cray sociopath might be after me.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:00 AM, November 25th (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, November 25th (Monday)

How do I let go of the overwhelming desire to stab her?
Oh, yeah, I know I have felt very stabby towards it for a long time. With time, that has become less. See the second post, last quote. If you stab the OW, OW wins.

On another site I found this and believe it is true. It is the "party line" here, too.

The sociopath’s prime objective in life is power and control. If you deny the sociopath power and control over you, you take away what he or she wants most.
The first step, of course, is No Contact.
These quotes are from the author Donna Anderson.

Not sure if your WS's AP (or your WS) is a sociopath? I found all this very interesting.

According to Martha Stout, Ph.D., author of The Sociopath Next Door*, the best clue that you are dealing with a sociopath is the pity play.

“The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness,” Stout says. “It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”

The fucking cumdumpster not only played FWH, it played me, too. Before I knew that there was even an AP, but the affair was over, desperate cumdumpster, who couldn't bear to not "win" called me. Said "Don't worry, I am not after your husband, I have a boyfriend. I used to work with your husband and just wanted to catch up." Told it that husband wasn't home but I would take name and number. It then engaged me in a 45 minute conversation. It did most of the talking. It was a big old sad, woe is me pity party. By the end of the phone call I felt very sorry for this pathetic person. When FWH got home I gave him the name and number of former co-worker. I encouraged him to call the AP! I felt so sorry for it. FWH reacted strongly. Said he wasn't calling that crazy bitch and he told me not to talk to it anymore, either.
In her book, Stout also describes other techniques that a shameless sociopath will use to keep the rest of us in line. They are:

Charm
Risk-taking, and convincing others to do it with them
Recognizing a person who is decent and trusting—the perfect target
Sexual seduction
Crocodile tears—especially when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Righteous indignation—Plan B when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Exploiting social and professional roles
Gaslighting—making victims doubt their own perceptions

eta: a missing word

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:57 AM, November 25th (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Eudaimonia
Member
Member # 32445
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, November 25th (Monday)

This completely describes 2 of WH''s APs as well, but sadly it also covers WH as well-pre therapy. Has he changed? If not, he puts on one hell of a show. Most concerning though is that for several months after D-day I was accused, by his bio mom, of being a horrible person because I was NOT this way!!!! Gee, I wonder where WH got his behavior from.

A lot of WH''s justification for his acting out was because I didn''t "love bomb" him, I didn''t treat him as he was treated by his toxic family. I treated him as an adult and gave him credit where credit was due. Apparently, that''s not enough for this mentality.

As for 2 of his APs, the little that I do know is word for word what you have described. How scary is it that there seem to be so many of them walking around out there?


So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Posts: 472 | Registered: Jun 2011
Marathonwaseasy
Member
Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, November 25th (Monday)

Ho hum

We are NC with psycho nut job OW
But she hasn't yet given up
So far we've changed fwh's number, I've blocked her on my phone and he ran away when she approached him when he was out running 2 weeks ago

What is the best thing to do if/when she reappears?

She likes drama so is police/solicitor just playing her game?

Interestingly pre discovery of SI I phoned her to have it out with her and despite a tirade of abuse from me the one thing that upset her that I said was she should grow up

Ho hum. If I have the misfortune of speaking to her again I will stick to pity and telling her to grow up I think

But seriously is the legal route sensible or adding to the fun for her?


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, November 25th (Monday)

Yes, yes, and yes. My husband did cheat on me and nearly destroyed me and our marriage of over 30 years. The OW is a sociopath and hit every single criteria in the article. Many people, even on SI, cannot believe that men can be so gullible, but I have a front row seat to the tragedy that a desperate, needy, sociopath can cause.

They do look for nice men who take care of their families. They look for helpful, caring men to systematically, step by step, worm their way into a relationship. They are patient as long as progress is going their way. They will take months to slowly turn the H into their best friend. They will turn the H's own words back to them to create distance with the BS, inventing problems he never knew he had. Of course at each escalation my H could have stopped everything, should have seen her for what she was doing, and to his great regret, he did not. The few times he did push back were the times she ramped up her method, turned on the tears and distress and sucked him back in.

I just recently did have an aha moment realizing it was not just winning him, it was also about beating me with her sick game. The entire A she was posting little hints about the A on Facebook and twitter knowing I would see them. I was so stupid and trusting, I never knew they were about my her and my H. I was also part of her sick little game and it makes me nauseous.

My H IC saw the sociopath for who she was and alerted my H on the first visit my H made immediately after DDay. The IC perfectly predicted her post A actions and how we should handle them. We had to both be hard NC which was so hard given her ridiculous actions. Like a vampire looking for her fix, she was desperate and relentless. We have both suffered through her taking so much from us, but on professional advice, dealing with a sociopath means not dealing a sociopath. Ever. Even though she just shows up at social functions, church, funerals, etc, we have to not engage her. We broke that one time and it was not pretty. Lots of blame, arrogance and attitude projected at me, the BS. Of course she has taken the victim role for herself, last step in the failed sociopath's plan.

God save us.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1467 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Dyinghere
Member
Member # 41313
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Ha. The OW over here is a narcissistic sociopath.




Posts: 132 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: the inside of my head
plainpain
Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Wow, this is so bang on. Sociopath. I'm going to have to read that book. Does it say how to undo them? Like, if you want to HURT them, or make them feel really, really horrible... what is the best way? Obviously, we are not going to stab them. NC is probably not going to be possible in my circumstance. I want to at least make her unhappy.

They do look for nice men who take care of their families. They look for helpful, caring men to systematically, step by step, worm their way into a relationship. They are patient as long as progress is going their way. They will take months to slowly turn the H into their best friend. They will turn the H's own words back to them to create distance with the BS, inventing problems he never knew he had. Of course at each escalation my H could have stopped everything, should have seen her for what she was doing, and to his great regret, he did not. The few times he did push back were the times she ramped up her method, turned on the tears and distress and sucked him back in.

Yes.

[This message edited by plainpain at 1:05 PM, November 25th (Monday)]


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
TheAmazingWondertwin
Member
Member # 40769
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Oh wow... Pain that hit the nail in the head.
Just ... Wow.


Everyday is a new day, some good, some bad.
Me- BS 39
Him- FWS
14 years- 2 middle school children
DDay- 07-24-2013
NC broken from August 6- 24, 2013
Avalanche of Truth on November 14, 2013
Length of A: June 10th to Dday- with broken NC

Posts: 474 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: East Coast
musiclovingmom
Member
Member # 38207
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, November 25th (Monday)

it was also about beating me with her sick game. The entire A she was posting little hints about the A on Facebook and twitter knowing I would see them. I was so stupid and trusting, I never knew they were about my her and my H. I was also part of her sick little game and it makes me nauseous.

This is exactly what OW2 did. OW5 wanted to win so badly that she outed them when my H started ignoring her. She played the pity card hard. Fortunately for me, I don't typically feed into anyone's pity party and she was no exception. OW1&5 have both tried direct contact in the last year. OW2 prefers to try to continue to 'win' by telling mutual friends what a horrible person I am. Fortunately, the people I care about, know me better than that and ask what she's talking about. She hasn't succeeded in 'winning' any of my friends either.

Posts: 1073 | Registered: Jan 2013
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Does it say how to undo them? Like, if you want to HURT them, or make them feel really, really horrible... what is the best way?
What I think I am understanding is that there really isn't a way to undo them or hurt them. They have distorted logic, so what would hurt most non-sociopathic people won't hurt them. What we would consider their loss they view as a "win". We just ain't that fuckin' cray cray, plainpain.

I do believe *crickets* and “Living well is the best revenge” is especially true for sociopath's. AP will often block me from FB if I post something about FWH and I having fun, loving or whatever. AP fished for my FWH for 8 years. It drives AP more cray cray that it doesn't get to have contact. Nanny nanny boo boo to it!
eta:

Perhaps a sociopath’s only fear is being unmasked as evil, because that exposes the nature of his game.
The problem with this is that oftentimes it is the BS that winds up looking like the crazy one.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:39 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, November 25th (Monday)

IC says that even negative attention feeds their need. Probably spanked a little too much as a child. She is a daddy's girl, still trying to land her daddy's approval, and looking for a daddy figure lover through her manipulations.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1467 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
plainpain
Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Sigh. Well, one can dream. I really wish I believed in karma. I guess it's a good thing to know at least I'm not cray cray. I definitely do not feel the win here.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
Kalliopeia
Member
Member # 35053
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, November 25th (Monday)

You are fooling yourselves if you think your husbands were too silly to evade sociopathic women.

More probably, your husbands directly engaged, lied, manipulated and frankly just pissed off and hurt in a major way an OW who actually believed things would go a different direction... supported in that believe by.. your husbands.

sorry, but simply accept it. He cheated, he lied to more than you, he manipulated, schemed and flat out didn't give a crap until he was caught.

Mine did the same thing. It totally sucks. His ex who he cheated on me with and got a OC with... she was desperate, she was wanting him back. She still wants him back. She lies, she schemes.. I don't think she is a sociopath. I think he made her believe something she was already wanting to believe.

It's probably more accurate to believe that the OW is pissed off at being jerked around and used and wants to inflict some damage back or actually loved the guy because he convinced it was real love and she doesn't want to give it up because that simply makes her someone who was misled, used, betrayed and a flat out dumass.

[This message edited by Kalliopeia at 7:44 PM, November 25th (Monday)]


Posts: 478 | Registered: Mar 2012
Nest2007
Member
Member # 39532
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, November 25th (Monday)

THIS.

"They do look for nice men who take care of their families. They look for helpful, caring men to systematically, step by step, worm their way into a relationship. They are patient as long as progress is going their way. They will take months to slowly turn the H into their best friend. They will turn the H's own words back to them to create distance with the BS, inventing problems he never knew he had. Of course at each escalation my H could have stopped everything, should have seen her for what she was doing, and to his great regret, he did not. The few times he did push back were the times she ramped up her method, turned on the tears and distress and sucked him back in."

It's like describing H's EA and five day PA to a t. And that list. It is GSMTP in every way.

Incredibly frustrating to know I can't hurt her, can't exact any revenge, as it all feeds her sociopathy. Terrifying. And he invited this into our marriage.


BS 35
WS 31
DD, only child
DDay: 06/09/13
End of TT/Full Disclosure 07/08/13

Reconciling. A stronger marriage now.

Psalm 37. It rocks my world. So does 140. Big guy upstairs has got it all figured out.


Posts: 230 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Here and there...
looking forward
Member
Member # 25238
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, November 25th (Monday)

They don’t view “winning” in the positive sense of achieving success–be it successful long-term relationships or professional endeavors–but rather as causing others to lose.

He (and I) caused my H unimaginable pain and heartache.
He failed, though, because my H is a winner.

Sociopaths play a very dangerous game, whereby they win by losing.

OM is dead. Ergo, he lost.

Perhaps a sociopath’s only fear is being unmasked as evil, because that exposes the nature of his game.

He was unmasked quite publicly.

The sociopath’s prime objective in life is power and control. If you deny the sociopath power and control over you, you take away what he or she wants most.

Unfortunately, I never realized this. I thought I was the one with the power and control, and, no, I am not a sociopath.

In her book, Stout also describes other techniques that a shameless sociopath will use to keep the rest of us in line. They are:
Charm The OM most definitely oozed this!

Risk-taking, and convincing others to do it with them I call it manipulating.

Recognizing a person who is decent and trusting—the perfect target That was me ~ set me up perfectly at age 18, a very young and naïve 18 year old.

Sexual seduction This was what he did - called it getting experience.
Crocodile tears—especially when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Righteous indignation—Plan B when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Exploiting social and professional roles Oh yes, he was our lawyer and H's BF

Gaslighting—making victims doubt their own perceptions Is there a term for having no perception? I couldn't doubt what I didn't know or understand.

[This message edited by looking forward at 10:04 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]


Memory and hope; one looks backward, and the other forward; one is of today, the other of tomorrow.
"Find a place inside where there's joy, and the joy will burn out the pain." (Joseph Campbell)

Posts: 2839 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: Where a river runs through it
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Kalliopeia, you are entitled to your opinion, and this may not apply in your situation. It doesn't apply to all. However, there are sociopaths out there. 4% of the population is thought to be sociopathic. Odds are that some of the AP's (or our WS's) are sociopaths.

My FWH told AP that he wasn't going to ever leave me, that this was strictly NSA FWB's sex and AP agreed. He never led it to believe that he loved it. However, AP called him the "Love of Its Life". (See fourth quote in first post.) Granted, I only know what he told me. OTOH, you don't know anything about us personally IRL. I imagine I would be the better judge of what is going on in our situation than you would be.

You are fooling yourselves if you think your husbands were too silly to evade sociopathic women.
Many a "wise" person has been fooled by a sociopath, and not just talking about infidelity. I certainly don't feel my FWH was "too silly" to evade a sociopathic woman. I don't feel any of the posters on this thread said that their WS wasn't 100% responsible for their choice to fuck the sociopathic AP.

The point I was making was that my FWH had an affair with a sociopath.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:11 PM, November 25th (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, November 25th (Monday)

I thought I was the one with the power and control, and, no, I am not a sociopath.
My FWH thought this, too, looking forward. He was quite shocked and fearful when he realized he had no control. Yes, than AP had the control because he was afraid that it was going to tell me, but AP never said this overtly. He actually had to force himself to fuck the AP for longer than he wanted to (poor guy!) because he was trying to wean it off his amazing magical penis.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
naivewife
Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Yep, OW was a sociopath here too, right down to the parasitic lifestyle and the degree in medicine to appear caring and gain easy access to sick, vulnerable people. She spent copious amounts of time in our home and I guess the one thing I can pat myself on the back for is that I'm not a good sociopath target. I just could not be charmed by her, no matter how hard she tried. I watched WH fall into her trap, and others in our life did the same, but I just found her to be ridiculous. I guess my intuition was strong enough to see she was disordered, but not strong enough to see what was actually going on pretty much right in front of my eyes.


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 342 | Registered: Feb 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Well I don't know enough about any of stbx's OW's to be able to make a judgement about their dysfunctions one way or the other......but it seems that you and I have spent time recently reading the same articles. I was poking around on that website yesterday and saw that winning/losing article and it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up......last week stbx sent me a text that said "you are right where you should be. Losing me."
**shudder**


@PP -- Sociopaths are incapable of feeling *hurt* in the way that the majority of humans feel hurt. They have had so much damage done to them at some point in their lives that they are incapable of feeling *normal* human emotions. It really is win/lose with them. You are either beloved by them (so long as you are gobbling up their bullshit and not making waves).....or you are Enemy Number One (which occurs at the point where YOU wake up and realized that this person is just jerking you around and decide to take actions that are contrary to what the sociopath wants)
The only way to deal with a sociopath is to lie low and hope they find a new *victim* and forget about you........


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7996 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
thebighurt
Member
Member # 34722
Frustrated  Posted: 10:45 PM, November 25th (Monday)

OMG, Sister, your initial post to this thread perfectly describes xpos with slut. He did and said exactly those things.

IC said "he is definitely back of the book" (DSM). But without actually talking with him, she can't say exactly what dx he might be given. I think your post did that. Shudder.


Finding what life could have been....... Why didn't I see it?

Posts: 2328 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: the Other Side
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Other than OW, I have known at least 2 other sociopaths in my life, both women. One I got sucked into a friendship with(not sexual in any way) but still very painful when it ended because she could not control me. She went from friend to vengeful bitch in 2 days. Told people horrible things about me and my children. When you try to tell people what is happening, you look like the crazy one. Even after the first experience the other sociopath took me by surprise and I never saw her for what she was until quite late in the "friendship". Her method goes more to complete service and humility until you cross her. She collects friends and ceremonially dumps them. You know when you have been banished.

I never trusted the OW after I met her and warned my H that she was toxic and would hurt his professional credibility with her extreme views. I thought he felt the same way. I never even thought she was a threat to my marriage. But of course, hindsight.

Was my H a victim? Absolutely. Did he have free will to stop her? Absolutely. He gets no pass from me. As a matter of fact, he gets hell from me, even after 3 years. Why talk about the sociopath and their methods of seduction here? Because hopefully knowledge is power and I hope my H has both the knowledge and power to stop if this ever comes his way again.

The IC said we have to discern excuses from reasons. I will be damned if I go through this crap and have not learned about the reasons my H had his A with this particular OW. They are both damaged people who found each other.

Sociopaths come in both sexes. Predators come in both sexes. Both men and women can be manipulated into doing things they never envisioned being capable of doing.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1467 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Marathonwaseasy
Member
Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Its so hard to realise there's nothing I can do to gain justice.
My fwh had free will obviously but her seduction took years and he was very ill and vulnerable. I see how it's hurting him now. He damn near died because of the A. He's still so ill. He's facing up to what he's done to me and our children. I ache for the pain and self loathing I see in him. I just want him to get well.

My own brother is a sociopath and has played me for years. Ironically until the last six months when I've seen it and it's all changed for me.

I was the victim of a sociopath/supposed best friend years ago. She was the OW to a tee. She actually seduced me and I'm completely heterosexual. Then made it feel like it was what I wanted. Then later on attempted to seduce my H. He had the sense to run for the hills then. But he wasn't ill then. I had another "friend" who was similar. I used to attract them. I saw the danger in OW but didn't follow up on my instincts and fwh was already embroiled in her game by then.


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Sooo.... Everyone here realizes that their WS was someone else's AP, right?

It all sucks


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2797 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Marathonwaseasy
Member
Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 12:31 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Not if OW was single though

It would be so much easier for me to not have all this added stuff around him being really ill and her having orchestrated this whole thing over years as much to hurt me as any other motivation. And her continued sociopathic behaviours in the background. Not knowing what will happen next.
I wish I hadn't just spent 7 years terrified of my husband committing suicide which was a very real risk. I wish I could just focus on my recovery right now instead of having to monitor his mood for a crash which is also a big risk in view he's damn near destroyed me and the fog has lifted. I wish I didn't have 3 children distressed by their father's illness and scared that he's going to die but hating him for not being a proper dad for years.

This shit is hard enough for any of us.


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Not sure if your WS's AP (or your WS) is a sociopath?
Odds are that some of the AP's (or our WS's) are sociopaths.
Yes, 5454real, I do realize that our WS's were AP's, too. That is why the above quotes were included in my posts.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:45 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
2oldforthis
Member
Member # 19825
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

The book,"Sociopath next door" is an excellent book for anyone to read.

There is no doubt that the AP in WS's A was a sociopath. The lies, the manipulation etc. I spoke to my IC about what went on and he said he no doubt felt that she was a sociopath.

The reason why you must know about sociopath is because you need to be careful on how you deal with them. They will always turn things around.

MY WS's lied about a child finally when DNA was done she made up lies about the DNA clinic did it wrong, the wrong person. Well we used a nationally known clinic who knows how to do it so it will stand up in court. Photos, ID, fingerprints etc. All she keep saying was they did it wrong. She almost had people believing it was done wrong, even with all the written proof. This was in the court of law. She almost had everyone one running around to prove it was right while all she did was sit there and say it was wrong. It was her word over DNA.

Of course there are many WS's that had A's here on SI with sociopath's. You must understand that sex in one of their weapons. The use it to manipulate. They are very sexually promiscuous.

Many people get conned by sociopath's. Some in jobs, or money. Even in marriage. Their have been several women who have married sociopath's and been murdered by them. Are their factors that make you their prey, yes. Dr. Phil's new book Life Code is basically the same thing although he reframes from using the word sociopath.

No, you can not do anything to make them feel pain or hurt.

The only answer is to get them out of your life.

•Sociopaths are professional liars. They fabricate stories and make outlandish, untruthful statements, but are able to make these lies sound convincing with their confidence and assertiveness.

Above right out of a book

[This message edited by 2oldforthis at 8:21 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]


He did not see what he had in me, what I saw in him I did not have!

Love kills slowly.


Posts: 1645 | Registered: Jun 2008
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

(((Marathoneasy))) I am so sorry everything is so hard and difficult for you and your family. Have you thought about counseling for your children? Maybe a few sessions would help them be able to deal with their feelings about their father and his illness.

There is sometimes justice fpr sociopaths, Marathoneasy. Don't waste your time or hold your breath waiting for it, though.

It’s not a good idea to consciously go out to seek revenge. (Another proverb attributed to the Chinese philosopher Confucius states, “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”) But as time goes by and you build your inner strength, you may suddenly find yourself faced with an opportunity to hold the sociopath accountable.

The sociopath, of course, will continue a life of destruction. Eventually, he or she may target the wrong person or seriously break the law, and someone may contact you to find out what you know about this disordered individual. Then, in a calm and collected manner, you can describe your experience, provide evidence that proves a pattern of behavior, and contribute to some type of justice—whether it’s getting the individual prosecuted, exposed in the media, or just ruining his or her efforts with yet another potential victim.

The above quote was from Donna Anderson's web site.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:14 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Gottagetthrough
Member
Member # 27325
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Like, if you want to HURT them, or make them feel really, really horrible... what is the best way?

we are 4 years out and idk if ow is a sociopath, but she has some of these traits.

the best revenge was, truly, living well. I know it sounds hackneyed, but really and truly, I saw OW dissolve after we got back together. I think she has lost her job, and she gained about 100 lbs the year following WH dumping her.

She had to go on medical leave for mental health issues.

Had you told me 4 years ago that this attractive woman, who lied convincingly about how successful she was professionally... Had you told me she would be hot mess 4 years later due to my silence, never acknowledging her, and really just taking care of me and my family without thought to her, LOL, I would have said no way!!! But it happened!

Live well. Take care of you and those who matter to you.


Posts: 1378 | Registered: Jan 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

I concur with everything you posted 2oldforthis. That is the book that Martha Stout, whom I quoted, wrote that you recommended. I am sure it is a fascinating book.

That is so crazy how the OW did this.

She almost had everyone one running around to prove it was right while all she did was sit there and say it was wrong. It was her word over DNA.
Some sociopaths are just that good at their game.
Many people get conned by sociopath's. Some in jobs, or money.
Bernie Madoff is a sociopath of epic proportions.
Had you told me she would be hot mess 4 years later due to my silence, never acknowledging her, and really just taking care of me and my family without thought to her, LOL, I would have said no way!!! But it happened.
Gotta, that is very good news!


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Ok. MrH love bombed me. Well, as long as I held him at arm's length. Now it's more of a constant pursuit.

I suppose that means he has some sociopathic tendencies? My IC knows him pretty well and doesn't seem to think so. Selfish, un faced FOO issues, some NPD markers perhaps but not sociopathic.

That said, reading the first few posts here made me nervous and I'm hoping I'm not fooling myself by excusing it as teenage behavior since we were 18 when we started dating.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11185 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Holly, I am sure your IC knows much better about Mr.H than just a list of some sociopathic traits. I would trust your IC's thoughts on Mr. H.

As far as "love bombing", I feel that is probably a pretty common "immature" or teenage trait, but when you are a grown up, that isn't what most normal, mature adults do.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
seenow
Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

I think the lesson here is NO CONTACT. Regardless of whether the APs are officially diagnosed or not they are damaged and probably hurt. They are snakes held by their bellies and able to strike where they can reach.

Our waywards? Yep, damaged too but we can make the choice to leave. We didn't have the choice of bringing a crazy, desperate, damaged person into our family.


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 292 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
plainpain
Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

I don't know if there is a 'cure' for the sociopath, but I do definitely think that my H was bordering on it himself towards the end of the A. I actually had a freak-out melt down one night shortly after he had confessed, thought he was lying to me, conning me - when he was actually, for the first time ever, telling me the whole truth - I thought my head was going to split, I didn't know what was true, what was lie anymore. I called my dad to come over, said I thought my H was going to kill me and the kids. It was like waking up to discover I had been living with a complete stranger. I think for anyone with a conscience, having an A must seriously mess with their psychological health.

Interesting, the OW grew angrier with me the calmer I was. She had mentioned to my H once that she thought about 'outing' all the married men she had affairs with to their wives - like, she had contempt for them, even though she went out of her way to pursue them. As far as she knows, my H's A with her was easily recovered from. She was barely a blip on the radar. He actually told her that his A with her was not even the worst thing that he confessed to me - which was true, but must have hurt for her to hear, since she was no doubt fantasizing that she had completely destroyed his/my life with her magic sex power.

OW absolutely was the predator in their relationship. She spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on gifts for him - brought him something every time she 'happened to be in the area'. He didn't like it, because he felt like he had to be the one with the power in the relationship, felt like he 'owed her'. It's actually what he gave as the reason why he finally had sex with her... 'She had done so much to get me, I felt like I owed her'. Don't get me started.

Yes, apparently my H has one of those magic penises, too. Gold star, OW, here's my penis for you. Whatever.

My H is 1000% responsible for his A. He had a million choices he could have made at any point before he decided to have an A. He chose it. He did not lead her on - he made it clear to her it was 'just sex', that I was a good wife and had done nothing to him to 'deserve' him having an A, that he felt guilty about having the A. I'm sure he played all kinds of mind games with her, too, and tried very hard to make her fall in love with him. That's his own mental thing, and he feels guilt and shame about that, too. He said he was married, she said I don't care. He said go away, she did not go away. He kicked her, she came back wagging her tail and carrying a bone. She went into it with her big girl boots on. I don't know if she's a sociopath or not, but she sure as heck acts like one.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)

plainpain, there is no "cure" for sociopathy.

Here is the link about the "winning" the sociopath needs.

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/why-sociopaths-win-by-losing/


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9635 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Thanks SM. I'll have to ask my IC specifically next time we meet. I see issues, but nothing clear cut in MrH enough to merit a title, KWIM? Unlike my sister...my dad called it when he said NPD with some sociopathic traits. And mom is most likely BPD.

Frankly, between them and growing up with an alcoholic dad and a bipolar stepmom...I'm more surprised I don't have some diagnosis beyond depression and low self esteem.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11185 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Eudaimonia
Member
Member # 32445
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Have you guys seen Revenge of the Nerds? The scene where they''''re playing tug of war against the jocks rings home for me with these types of people. The nerds had no chance of winning *that* game. So, they just dropped the rope. Hilarity ensued.

Eta: WE are the champions, my friend.

[This message edited by TruthorGoodbye at 8:36 PM, November 26th, 2013 (Tuesday)]


So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Posts: 472 | Registered: Jun 2011
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)

My wifes AP, according to my Pastor and small town living, is on to another woman NOT his wife. It is also reported that he had others before my wife. So this post is interesting.....in the, Oh look kids, big Ben sort of way.

I am still left with the fact my wife spread her legs for him....took him in her mouth.

God help us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3635 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Eudaimonia
Member
Member # 32445
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)

Hey look kids, there''''s Big Ben, and there''''s Parliament..

[This message edited by TruthorGoodbye at 8:43 AM, November 27th, 2013 (Wednesday)]


So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Posts: 472 | Registered: Jun 2011
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)

Haha!!! Truthorgone....you got my humor?!?!

A couple of months ago I cycled through yet another round of typical BS crap. Hardly rattled....still painful....but had a real sense of "been there done that". Then I laughed as I recalled Chevy Chase as he tried his best to make something old seem exciting and new.....my mind tries to do this. It was successful early on, but now it causes me to recall this movie clip...and it looses its "shiny luster".

Could depress a person if they let it....the profound saddness and pain of adultery. But I know I will break out of this circular pattern eventually ..... Just like the Griswalds did.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:56 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3635 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
StillLivin
Member
Member # 40229
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)

He actually had to force himself to fuck the AP for longer than he wanted to (poor guy!) because he was trying to wean it off his amazing magical penis.

SisterMilkshake, your sense of humor is killing my obliques from insane laughter.

Not to thread jack but LMAO!


I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2230 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ
Topic Posts: 42