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Reconciliation
User Topic: "I'm with you because you were there."
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 10:46 PM, November 29th (Friday)

We're attempting R, but stuck because WW still works with OM.

Recently, she has reluctantly agreed that she should find a new job, but hasn't actually acted on it.

I don't know what to make of the following. Please weigh in.

Tonight, we're coming home from dinner at a friend's home and she started talking about a long-term project at work. I asked her why she was investing time and energy into it if she was going to quit.

She freaked out, said that I don't care about her and that to tell me the truth, she's only with me because when we met, I was there. I could've been any guy, she said.

That hurt. Deeply. It hurt my core.

I went quiet and continued driving home. I got in and sat down on the ground. I became emotional. She hugged me and said that she's also with me because she thinks I'm intelligent, ambitious, good looking and because I love her. She asked me if I believed that.

It was hard to speak, but I said that what she said in the car made sense. It explained the cheating, it explained the nine months that she's continued to work with the OM despite it being a cause of anxiety for me.

She got angry and walked away. She came back and asked me to go to the bedroom with her. I said I wanted to take a shower. I felt devastated mentally.

WW then said she wanted "kindness too" and that if I didn't give it to her she would just go get it from someone else.

I showered and am sleeping on the floor. I don't want to sleep on the bed tonight. She's asleep. I'm here because I can't sleep.

Was all that said in anger because she doesn't want to give up her job? Was it real? Was it both -- she doesn't want to give up her job and is with me because "I was there?"

So much pain.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Vulcanized
Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, November 29th (Friday)

(Feeling)

Your W doesn't sound all that remorseful to me. Her getting angry, not finding another job, telling you that she's with you b/c you love her (not the other way around) all smack of entitled WW mindset, IMO.

Please don't sleep on the floor. You are neither a child nor a dog, no reason for it.

Was it both -- she doesn't want to give up her job and is with me because "I was there?"
Could be. It's up to you to figure out how much you are willing to tolerate & sacrifice for the M.

It does get better.


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 730 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, November 29th (Friday)

That's horrible. I'm sorry you had to endure that. What she's doing is psychologically abusive:
http://psychopathsandlove.com/covert-emotional-manipulation-tactics/
You do NOT deserve to be treated like that!!!

Posts: 11399 | Registered: Mar 2008
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, November 29th (Friday)

I don't love the idea of sleeping on the floor, but when she brought the OM home, they had sex on our couch. I don't want to sleep there. It hasn't felt comfortable since D-Day.

We had an air mattress, but the cat clawed holes into it.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 11:06 PM, November 29th (Friday)

Just checked her Twitter account. After D-Day, I asked her to include in her bio that she's married to me and include my Twitter handle. She did that and strongly insisted I do the same. I did it.

The part about being married to me is no longer there. She didn't tell me that she took it down. WTF?


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
wontdefineme
Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, November 29th (Friday)

Sounds like my xh. He wouldn't quit, and his howorker and him just kept on. The howorker would throw herself at hIM at work and I knew it. He was cruel and whined about being treated bad. Turns out he was a narcissist and did and said stuff to make me chase him. Notice I said XH.

I refused to be talked to that way anymore And if he didn't want to find another job, I didn't want him. In the end I didn't care about him getting another job, wherever he went, there he was. Didn't matter what job, women were there that would feed his ego if I wasn't going to. He told me before the affair that if I wouldn't listen or talk to him, he would find someone who would. His excuse for the affair, she listened to him. I was the one that always begged for him to talk to me.

The other poster was right, get up off the floor. Take your manhood back and if she doesn't want to do the right thing, then her loss will be a good husband. As a bs, we look weak and pathetic when we cry and want their attention. Stand up, do the 180, and make her fight for you to stay instead of you doing what she wants.

I really think these nasty things they say is what they really feel and when it finally hits way to far and we have had enough, I think they try and backtrack and say something that will make us stop pulling away.


Posts: 2126 | Registered: Mar 2011
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, November 29th (Friday)

I'm feeling like when I finally feel sleepy I should sleep on the bed. That's the 180 thing to do.

Grrrrr, I was doing OK with the 180 until tonight. That comment just hurt my soul. And I asked her, "do you really mean that?" And she said "yes."

You know when your gut tells you something is true? It felt true. Ugh, it hurt because I think that I unconsciously suspected that. I guess that's why she cheated. I was there and available at first. She got to know and even like me, but I'm not the love of her life. So she cheated. Makes sense.

Nine months ago I would've described my WW as the love of my life. And I didn't feel the urge to cheat because I felt I had the "perfect" person for me. That doesn't mean she didn't have faults or made mistakes, it just means that I thought we were good together. I guess she saw it differently.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Vulcanized
Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, November 29th (Friday)

She got to know and even like me, but I'm not the love of her life. So she cheated. Makes sense.

That's a bunch of bull. She cheated b/c she has poor boundaries and lacks integrity.

If you don't feel comfortable sharing a bed w/her, make her sleep on the couch. She is the one who fucked up, not you. Right now, she has you jumping thru hoops for her. Y'all got it twisted; she needs to be doing what ever it is you need her to do.

If she is so unhappy, show her the door & save yourself more pain. She'll drag out hurting you & keeping you as Plan B as long as you allow it.

I know it hurts, I really, really do. But I also know how much it hurts knowing you are on the back burner, just in case.

She can either get w/the plan or GTFO.
(((Feeling)))


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 730 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, November 29th (Friday)

I'm usually not into self pity. I was starting to feel hopeful when she dropped that bomb.

To be honest with you, I'm torn. I don't know what R is like without her working with OM.

I keep waiting for that. And waiting. And waiting. I feel that somehow I need to show her that life would be better that way, but the cold hard truth is, if she doesn't make the choice on her own, it won't mean anything and she'll blame me for it.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, November 29th (Friday)

Feeling,
Your WW is NOT remorseful.
She freaked out, said that I don''t care about her and that to tell me the truth, she''s only with me because when we met, I was there. I could''ve been any guy, she said.
This was just cruel and seems to be a gut reaction.

She hugged me and said that she''s also with me because she thinks I''m intelligent, ambitious, good looking and because I love her.

I couldn''t help but notice "because I love you" was not part of those reasons.

WW then said she wanted "kindness too" and that if I didn''t give it to her she would just go get it from someone else.
She wants "kindness too"??? Her response to seeing you in horrible pain from her callousness is that you she wants kindness too??? That seems to imply that you were wanting "kindness" instead of...oh, say some flippin'' help healing from her betrayal. To threaten to find "kindness" from someone else is one of the most insensitive things I think I have ever heard. It''s a twisted form of emotional blackmail too. "Do what I want or I''m going to cheat on you again and it will be your fault because I gave you ''fair warning'' "

Your WW sounds utterly narcissistic.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3652 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Neithan
Member
Member # 35924
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, November 29th (Friday)

Feeling, your WW has shown you who she is.

When someone shows us who they are, it's our job to see it.

I'm so very sorry.


Me: BH
Her: WW
D-Day: 2/19/2010
Married 1981
That which does not kill me makes me more irritable

Posts: 315 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Among the Gaurwaith
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, November 29th (Friday)

(((feeling)))

I'm sorry you're so torn and hurting. The problem is that you aren't really in R. R is REALLY tough, even when you have two people giving it their all. YOU are the one putting in the effort here- the only one, as far as I can see. That's not R, it's limbo, I'm sorry to say.

Did you read the manipulation tactics article I linked for you?


Posts: 11399 | Registered: Mar 2008
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, November 29th (Friday)

I did read the manipulation article. A lot in there applies to my situation. Too much.

I guess it's hard for me to grasp the concept that someone, in this case my WW, can do this unconsciously.

I don't know if she's aware she's doing it, but she's certainly doing it.

She's quick to recognize anything that's incoming, meaning anything that could potentially hurt her. She seems to completely ignore the impact of everything she sends out. This is crazy!

She grew up in a family that didn't value emotions of any kind, although her dad is always angry and critical even though his own life is a failure. Throughout our marriage, when WW acted out, I saw where it was coming from and figured that with time and love she would work on those issues. I had issues of my own that I was working on, too.

I never expected the cheating. Never. Even when it was right in front of my face I failed to see it. Everything else I felt that I could deal with because I liked my life. The cheating just crushed me.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 12:18 AM, November 30th (Saturday)

I never expected the cheating. Never. Even when it was right in front of my face I failed to see it. Everything else I felt that I could deal with because I liked my life. The cheating just crushed me.
I can totally relate, as you can see from my username. I just used a different word: shattered.

Just so you know a bit of my story: I'm a FBS, my d-day was in June of 2007, and we are in R after a really rough start.

She's quick to recognize anything that's incoming, meaning anything that could potentially hurt her. She seems to completely ignore the impact of everything she sends out. This is crazy!

She grew up in a family that didn't value emotions of any kind, although her dad is always angry and critical even though his own life is a failure. Throughout our marriage, when WW acted out, I saw where it was coming from and figured that with time and love she would work on those issues. I had issues of my own that I was working on, too.

Not one of us is perfect. We all have issues of some form, so I hope you don't feel defective because you're human. The rest of what I've quoted leads me to think you might benefit from learning about NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). Check out the NPD thread down in I Can Relate and also Google it and learn as much as you can about it.

Posts: 11399 | Registered: Mar 2008
notsosureanymore
Member
Member # 18051
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, November 30th (Saturday)

feeling so much, Your wife is unremorseful. The reason why is that she gets reinforcement everyday that she works with OM. With talk like "I will get it from somewhere else" pretty much says she is still in the affair. Your only shot to have her back all to yourself is to separate from her she is beyond foggy. When you do she will most likely be gone for good. I lurk here and don't chime in much at all mostly I feel I am not to worthy to give advise. But your wife sounds like mine. She is a narcissist. I found a little cartoon character on the you tube vids it is called "men who are abused". you should subscribe to it. You need to grow a pair and put her on her couch. I would have torched it myself. After she wakes in the morning and leaves for work take a piss on it right where she lays her head. and while your at clean up the toilet with her toothbrush -No Soap neither. Best of luck brother. Personally my wife will never fuck me over again!

Posts: 221 | Registered: Feb 2008
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, November 30th (Saturday)

I don't know if she's aware she's doing it, but she's certainly doing it.

^^^This is what makes her scary and unsafe for you.

Since you posted in R, all I am going to say to you is that the behavior of hers that you posted about reminds me way too much of my stbx's. And considering the realizations that I've had about him, that is NOT a good thing.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7695 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, December 1st (Sunday)

Just checking in with you, feeling. How are you doing today?

Posts: 11399 | Registered: Mar 2008
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Red  Posted: 2:11 PM, December 1st (Sunday)

wontdefineme -

Please remember when posting to follow the forum guidelines.

There is to be no venting about or name calling the OP in this forum.

Thank you.


Posts: 33855 | Registered: Mar 2011
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, December 2nd (Monday)

I'm starting to feel numb. That was a horrible weekend with WW saying a lot of hurtful things.

After D-Day, that's the kind of weekend that really crushed me, but today I'm numb.

I expected/hoped that she would apologize for saying we're together because "I was there," but that never came.

Before leaving for work this morning I said that I was feeling crushed by our interaction this weekend. She said my feelings are not the only ones that matter. She repeats this a lot. I don't know what it means. I have asked her, what does me valuing your feelings look like and I get vague answers like, "you don't listen to me."

I try to listen, I swear I do, but right now I'm in a lot of pain after the nine-months of cheating and the fact that they still work together.

WW has just been angry and distant all weekend. Yesterday and today I have been pretty good at maintaining the 180. At work now and being here feels better.

This is very hard for me to write, but I think I'm reaching my limit and hope for R is fading. I have IC on Thursday. I need it.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Whatever13
New Member
Member # 41468
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, December 2nd (Monday)

It sounds to me like your WW isn't truly remoreseful for the A. If she understood and cared what she did to you she would be bending over backwards, utterly acquiescent, to your demands. She would have quit her job without a moment's (let alone a few month's) hesitation. From what you're saying it sounds like the A is still ongoing.

Give her an ultimatum; quit now because you're killing me, or I'm calling a lawyer. Her disregard for your feelings is coming from a place of total selfishness. The 180 thing to do here might be to walk away from her and find real R on your own. Maybe eventually find somebody who values you for reasons beyond the fact that you "were there". If my WW had said something like that to me, I would be gone. Don't wait for her to find another job. You're just torturing yourself and wasting your time. You have to recognize that you're being abused, and fight it, no matter the outcome. You'll find a sense of self-respect, and with that, the love of others.

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in this place. I feel for you. I hope to hear soon that you're off the floor, have burned the couch, and doing better, with or without her.


Me (BS): 27
Her (WS): 24

DDay #1- 6/09 PA
DDay #2- 3/13 EA

Still riding the roller coaster of ambivalent limbo.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Nov 2013
plainpain
Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

Gently, gently, it sounds to me that she is still in the A - if not physically, then certainly emotionally. She does not want to stop seeing him - which she would want, if she were truly 'done' and remorseful. She is still in the fog, not remorseful, not grasping what her being in contact with OM is doing to you. She is more concerned with herself and her own feelings than in re-establishing trust with you.

'Affair Brain' makes people say stupid, stupid, stupid things. My H and I have been married 18 years. I know that he loves me, has always loved me. He went completely off the rails in the A - it colored his feelings and thoughts about our whole marriage. After he confessed the A to me, and we began telling each other the truth about everything going back to before we were even married - honest feelings - I asked him if he had felt trapped into marrying me. He knew how much I loved him, he wasn't really ready, but he was afraid to break my heart. That's basically what he said. I was devastated. And I knew that it was completely untrue. He waited for me for two years, while I finished university on the other side of the country. There was no trap - he worked hard to keep me during that time. A few weeks later, once he was fully out of the fog, he said to me, "I married you because I loved you - that's the truth".

Your WW may say and feel things now that she would never have meant before the A - and would feel dreadful for saying or ashamed of thinking when she was out of the fog.

That's just my opinion. I'm so sorry for your pain. You do not deserve it at all.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 744 | Registered: Jul 2013
eyesrnowopen
Member
Member # 39055
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

Feeling I am right there with you. I really can't give too much advise because I am asking the exact same questions you are. What I can offer are my coping skills. It is hurtful what they say when they are deflecting and make no mistake it is manipulation. Part of what I always did was feed into it. I would cry, beg, show how hurt I was. Or I would sulk and retreat. I am learning that my WH wins in his manipulation when I do either of these he gets to deflect. His intention weather unconscious or not are to take the spotlight off of his behaviors. I am learning to control my reactions and my fear. Don't get me wrong, this is hard because hurt is hurt. When someone you love shows they can act so heartless it can make you crazy and sad. What I do is remember he is manipulating and this won't work any longer.

I get smart instead of emotional. One of my tricks, to calm my emotions are that I look for the color red. Red is a color that I use that to me means vibrant, bold, not afraid, strong. When I look at it I am shocked back to what the color represents and I am reminded who I am and what I'm worth. Just taking a few seconds to stare, calm myself and breath makes me less reactive. It shows him that this doesn't work any longer and my self worth is not defined by his opinion of me. I define me and I define what I want and who I am.

I had used 180 and that helped me separate and detach. Now I feel strong enough to be assertive (not demanding- not needy- not hurting ). Assertive for me looks like the color red, bold and strong. I remind him calmly that I don't need him, I want him as a loving respectful partner and will love and respect him. If he can't act kind and respectful then I am fully prepared for D. I also show him I can hear him and respect him. I now say the same things but with less emotion and less neediness. He tends to hear me instead of reacting to me. It's hard for both of us to change. I am changing, the question remains can he.


This is the work within, having control over the outcome of our lives. Robert Bly refers to this as “Warrior work.” A warrior fights for a cause, something he believes in. As opposed to a soldier who merely fights for control – power or profit.

Posts: 83 | Registered: Apr 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

I'm so sorry, Feeling. I think she's still in the A.

When she says, "Your feelings aren't the only ones that matter." I think she means, "Stop making me feel guilty! Stop being so needy! I just want you to be a dependable H while I explore my relationship with OM. And don't you know that it's really hard to continue the A with you bothering me and making me feel all blamed?"

When she says, "You don't listen to me." She means, "How can I blame my cheating on you?"

Not remorseful.

She does not deserve you.

I would 180, and tell her she has to make an appointment for IC for her adultery and FOO issues by Friday or you will file for divorce. I would also set a deadline for her to quit her job and go NC with OM. If money is not a big issue, I'd make that deadline ASAP (give notice this week). She doesn't give notice, you file.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Kierst13
Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

I am going to jump past the part about her potentially continuing in the affair.

If anybody told me "I'm with you because you were there" whether it was part of affair talk or simply a relationship issue, they would be out, out, OUT! I will be loved not "Oh, you will do for now."

She does not deserve you.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

She hugged me and said that she's also with me because she thinks I'm intelligent, ambitious, good looking and because I love her.

That says it all right there. No I love YOU, just what you represent as her elbow candy. She doesn't want to talk about how her words hurt you. She doesn't care how you feel and she says exactly what is on her mind. Believe her. Also she thinks sex and her magic vagina will blot out her hurtful words. Unfortunately words can't be taken back and the damage is already done. Sex won't fix her attitude, sense of entitlement, nor her lack of empathy.

I am sorry for you pain, but given what you have written, as long as you are with her more is on the way.

[This message edited by momentintime at 2:35 PM, December 2nd (Monday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2901 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

What she said easily falls on the side of emotional abuse. These "outburst," are cruel and intend to express anger in way that hurts you. She intends to hurt you. Read that aloud again. Abuse tends to follow a pattern. Abuse, half hearted apology that blames the victim, repeat. Genders are irrelevant when it comes to abuse. There is the abuser and the victim. It does not make you weak and you most certainly do not deserve it. This is about your W and her issues. If she does not stop you need to protect yourself. That means up to and including leaving her for good. The last part is especially if she does not seek help for her abusive behaviors.

If you think there is a chance things can get better for you. You need to force a yes or no decision to see where she really stands. Based on what you have said, it does not sound like she really cares all that much about you or your feelings. If she does, IC and MC are important.

180. Keep it about finances/kids (if you have any). That is it. You need to keep the focus on yourself. No dinner dates, visiting friends, etc. Why would you continue to do those things with her if that is the outcome ? To help her hide her dark secret ? That is not half the woman in private that she pretends to be while other people are around ?

The worse outcome here is not leaving your M. The worst outcome here is looking back on your life and regretting not taking control back when you had the chance. Realizing that you spent your life with someone who did not deserve you. There is a great guy in there that someone will appreciate, take care of and protect.

I know this sounds a lot like D your W. I am not saying that. That is up to you. Just take a look at what this continued cycle is doing to you.

If you take anything from this, my point is you have options. It is about time to look at all your options and decide what would make you the happiest ? Then chase that happiness like a dog does a squirrel.

PS- I am an abuse survivor so sometimes I get a little "extra" fired up when I read things like this, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2539 | Registered: May 2010
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

I actually think the A is over because OM's girlfriend is now pregnant. Apparently he told my WW that he didn't want to see her anymore -- that was the second time she broke NC.

She seems to want to stay at her job because it's a good job that she worked hard to get, but it's a job that brings me anxiety every day. I used to be her biggest fan...

She did have her IC appointment today and called me afterwards to say that she recognizes she said some really hurtful things to me over the weekend. I thanked her for recognizing that.

That's the cycle we're in. I'm not seeing any action on her part when it comes to the big thing -- working with the OM. I'm told by our MC that her angry outbursts come out of a place of shame for her actions. The problem is, after nine months of angry outbursts following a nine-month A, it's wearing me down. The MC says ultimatums don't help. I would love to set an ultimatum as far as continuing working with the OM.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

in a way your MC is right. ultimatums will not work to change her behavior. that has to come from within her.

the question is, where are your lines in the sand, how much are you willing to tolerate? state them with conviction and then follow through.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2549 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

Gently, gently, it sounds to me that she is still in the A - if not physically, then certainly emotionally.
^^^^THIS! I know you wrote you think the A is over but in your WW's mind it's not over. This is NOT a 2X4. What your WW si doing is almost textbook WS behavior. She is giving you the slow push to make you file for D because she doesn't have the courage to do so. She probable isn't even aware she's doing it but that's what she is doing. Unremorseful WS's that won't leave but won't change only leave you with one option and they ratchet up the alienation and emotional barrages until you have no choice but to file.

The A may or may not be physically over but she is still VERY FOGGY and still mentally in the A. My STBXWW had a 3yr LTA with a coworker. She also refused to quit and gave plenty of reasons why she couldn't leave. The things you described in you post are things an unremorseful person does. Your WW still doesn't get it. You can't R by yourself and right now you are the only one driving that bus and your WW is letting air out of the tires, putting bananas in the tail pipe and everything else she can think of to further sabotage the M so she doesn't have to face what she did or own up to the fact that she is either still in the A or doesn't have the courage to actually file for D herself. If you haven't heard the "I need space speech" from her yet, it's coming. That's usually prefaced or followed by the "I feel smothered speech". This is all unremorseful WW code for "I want to leave but I don't know how and I get to see OM everyday at work and can't truly let go emotionally even though I know I should so I will blame my BH for my sad feelings and punish him more because it's easier to blame him than own up to the poor decisions I have made."

My advice go hard 180 asap and go see a L to understand your rights. You aren't in R and having been in the situation you are describing she is bascially slowly trying to force you to file. Other things you may have heard or may hear soon are she isn't attracted to you, doesn't think she will have sex with you, you already got the rewriting of her feelings for you, your a great provider or homemaker or whatever but she needs more, the spark or that special something is missing. You may hear all of these or soem variation and they arent' true but she is slowly trying to erase you from existence as she starts to feel like things would be better if you weren't around. It's her way of not having to deal with the guilt. She likely has no coping skills other than blaming you because she can't face herself and eventually she's likely going to hand you another Dday because she hasn't changed a thing about herself.

I could be wrong but if any of what I said or the other posters go ahead 180 and file because your WW isn't remorseful at all. I didnt' say any fo this to be mean or get you down. I was in yrou very situation and it's what I needed to hear then even if I couldn't face it at the time. I could be wrong about how things will go down but your WW is unremorseful so be careful and take care of yourself. I wish you the best.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:37 PM, December 2nd (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1821 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

I heard the "you're smothering me" and "I need space" speeches right after D-Day when our MC suggested that she give me her passwords (she eventually did).

Here's where I'm stuck. There's so much potential here, but so far it's potential unrealized. My IC says unrealized potential is just that. I need to go on more than just potential.

My WW and I pretty much watched each other grow up and enjoyed a lot of success together. It seems stupid to end it like this. On the other hand, her actions are not kind and they seem abusive. I keep asking myself how she doesn't realize it.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

WW called me at work to say she's sorry for the weekend. I thanked her and immediately she asked me if I could drive her to pick up her bike. She got a flat tire on the way to IC.

We got home and I received a lot more criticism. Things like wanting to fix the bedsheets because she was already comfortable. Well, my side of the bed was a mess, I volunteered to do it and it took seconds.

This is really hard. I find that when I first started posting here I made all sorts of excuses for WW -- maybe an attempt to understand her? Maybe an attempt to avoid seeing the truth? Now I feel that I don't have anything positive to post about her and she can't be that bad because I used to be happy. Grrrrrr.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Oftencheatedon
Member
Member # 41268
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

I am very, very sorry.

It is hard to accept that someone we love with all of our being does not love us.

It is probably more than just this affair. If she changes jobs, leaves OM, etc. it is probably going to happen again as she is still "looking for Mr. Right". And she's already found him in you.


Posts: 103 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: AL
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

Quick update: I booked an emergency MC session today. It was unsatisfying but helpful. The downward spiral has stopped.

I'm being told WW is tormented by shame and taking it out on me. I'm being asked to make a greater effort to take in her efforts. I said once more that it's very difficult to do that and be vulnerable again when she continues to work with OM and won't give me a timeline for moving on. We are at an impasse and it feels like s#it.

I scored tickets to the hockey game tonight and invited WW in an attempt to distract ourselves. It helped until she asked me -- innocently - if I had heard about the woman who won the lottery after losing her ticket. She opened her door and two strangers from the lotto company were there to tell her she won. WW said she joked at work - all day - that if strangers knock on your door you should always let them in. That triggered the hell out of me because she was bringing OM home and he was/is pretty much a stranger. She caught on to my reaction and apologized.

I hate feeling so sensitive. I really need her to work somewhere else...


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

Your MC is full of shit.

Your WW telling you that she "needs kindness too" is definitely not her *shame* talking. And btw...if your WW were so ashamed, she would have quit her job by now......OR she can stay there, feel *ashamed* while talking and joking with her co-workers about letting strangers into the house -- and come home and be an insensitive dolt to you? How is THAT fair to you?
That's insanity. I'm not getting one single whiff of *shame* from your WW's behavior.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7695 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Smokehouse
Member
Member # 40203
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, December 4th (Wednesday)

Wow, what does she want you to do with that information she so callously said to you? Neithan said it best, now you see it for what it and she is, what the marriage means to her. You have to examine her words and what they mean for you and your future.

I am in the same predicament, my WW still works with/for OM. Not direct supervision, and sometimes won't see or hear from him for over a week, sometimes more. My WW reports any and all contact, including emails. Does your wife do that? Do you have access to the correspondence?

After I discovered the A, my WW got another phone and continued for another month before I found out about the phone. She acted just like your WW during that month. Still distant but would occasionally try. I knew she was still talking to OM. Might be your WW is still emotionally involved. If they both want to, they will find a way!

You need to keep both eyes open my friend, something is not quite right there. I hope it's not that your wife doesn't love you and is only a matter of convenience for her.


Posts: 147 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Ohio
Smokehouse
Member
Member # 40203
Default  Posted: 12:19 AM, December 4th (Wednesday)

My WW is also ashamed. Tells me she is and treats me great. Shame is realized when they realize they did wrong and are remorseful, not lash out in anger to further hurt their BS!

Posts: 147 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Ohio
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, December 4th (Wednesday)

Your MC sucks and is enabling her bad behavior.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

❣I hope my issues don't discourage ur healing. I've buried a lot & my WH hasn't done his part in R❣


Posts: 10988 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Limbo
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, December 4th (Wednesday)

As far as I know I have full access to WW's passwords, phone records, etc. I haven't checked in months because with the two of them working together they can just talk face-to-face, which WW assures me isn't happening.

We woke up today and WW acted all morning like all is well. It's bizarre. She then asked if I wanted to make plans for a February vacation.

Yes, no, I don't know? I said that I needed time to recover from the last few days. I didn't tell her that I'm feeling distant. I am.

I'm also anxious because she has a major, yearly public work event on Friday morning. I have never missed it and I intend to attend this year, too.

I saw the OM at a different event at her work earlier this year and when he saw me he ran -- literally ran -- to a door that you need a passcard to open. What a coward. I have no interest in him, only in moving my family away from him.

I'm rambling. Today is a better day and I'm more focused at work.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Topic Posts: 38