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User Topic: Her girlfriends
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, December 7th (Saturday)

While I sit here, dealing with the problems she created and only this forum to vent to, she has an entire network of cronies to support her!
I can't talk to my family or we'll never reconcile. I can't talk to my friends because we've been here before and they will not understand my attempts to forgive. Counseling is still a long way off due to work commitments and holidays. And these...women...have had a hand in this from minute one. Goddammit.

When we had marital problems, they had their two cents to put in to console and encourage "poor me". I was left out of the conversation aside from "I'm not happy". Yeah? Me neither. The crohns and depression is killing me. Our failed attempts at communication and untimely attempts at sex are killing me. So, she consulted the oracle harpies and they told her not to get trapped in unhappy marriages like they did. She deserved to be happy and my grouchy ass wasn't helping. She chose an affair. I busted them and the girlfriends were there to offer all kinds of advice (you can imagine the content). She went to IC, I got surgery and meds. While I lay in the hospital for a month, she continued her second affair. Visit after work then off to the boyfriend. And the girls were collecting all the Jerry Springer gossip they could get. Now, in addition to being upset with her, hating him, I am starting to develop a real wish for everyone at her work to contract leprosy.


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, December 7th (Saturday)

I feel you. I had it out very publicly at work with one of my wife's friends who knew about a month before DDAY. She didn't actively encourage it, but being a passive listener in this particular situation is, in my opinion, tantamount to giving support. This girl worked with me for an entire month and saw me face-to-face and never said a word.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2175 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, December 7th (Saturday)

(((stillprettyupset)))

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this AND crohn's.

As gently as I can, I'd like to ask why you want to stay with her? I'm all for R (I'm in R currently), but her continuing the second A while you were in the hospital just seems exceptionally cruel, to me. That's why I'm asking.

Of course, we are here to support you whether you decide to R or D- or just live in limbo. Everyone has their own reason for the choices they make in this- and they're often very complicated.


Posts: 11754 | Registered: Mar 2008
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, December 7th (Saturday)

Complicated indeed. For a long time we were the envy of many of our friends and an example to those who wanted a relationship. The good times were exceptional and the bad times were negligible. We faced problems as a team and overcame almost everything with love and determination. Before her, I was selfish and aloof. Apart and pensive. She is my yang. My opposite but necessary part of me. I fear losing her for what I would become without her. She is, in many ways, the most exquisitely unique woman I have ever known. And she breaks my heart.


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, December 7th (Saturday)

Hmmmm...as for the hospital stay, it was no colder than waiting until I left home for the week to support us in the best job I could find. It's odd what I find less conscionable once I knew about the lying and hiding and whoring around. Good god some frackin relief would be amazing right now.


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
justjim
Member
Member # 41150
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, December 8th (Sunday)

I'm sorry. I understand your feelings toward her friends who facilitated her cheating.

Mine was supposed to be at the hospital at her Mother's bedside as she lay dying, but was sneaking off the be with OM. I now know that she was with him the night before her Mom died, leaving her alone in the hospital.

WW's best friend (and someone I thought was a friend of mine as well) HAD to know... they shared everything. I now find that the friend kept tabs on me and my whereabouts so that she could let WW know if there was any chance that I might run into her and OM.

The levels of betrayal are simply astounding, and it is hard to wrap your head around, I know.

Keep posting. I am interested in your progress through this shitstorm. Maybe we can learn something from one another along the way.

Stay strong, and above all TAKE CARE OF YOUR HEALTH.


Follow your BRAIN.
Your HEART is stupid as shit.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2013
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, December 8th (Sunday)

I am sorry for your pain.

Gently...you are making many arguments as to why your situation CANT change. I would encourage you to focus on 2-3 things you CAN change...and change soon.

You have been here before...your wife has had at least 2 affairs. I know you are concerned your friends wont get what you have done differently since the last time you talked to them about your wifes adulterous activities....but maybe they have a point....what have YOU done differently? Is part of your reluctance tied to your realization that you have not done all you can?

Society does not aggressively discourage affairs....some romantic comedies involve two married people who meet each other innocently and then realize they married the wrong people....that they wont be happy until they D and be with the real person they were meant to be with.

You speak of your wifes circle of influence (her friends). Think about how hurt you feel. If any of her friends are hurt divorcees it makes perfect sense that they would have this...fuck him, you deserve to be happy...attitude. It is not healthy, but it is a natural primal reaction to hurt.

Plus, if any of them are divorced there is something else at play here. I believe some divorced people really don't want other peoples marriages to survive. Because if others successfully navigate trials then it leaves them feeling worse. They, like most of us, want to be accepted and feel normal and at peace. If you guys divorce, they feel normal and at peace. If you make it...it rattles them to their core with thoughts of...Did I try all I could? Did I give up on our marriage over nose hair? etc.

Society also minimizes divorce. False statements like Kids are resilient, people simply grow apart have made no-fault divorces the norm. Marriage and divorce is almost as accepted in the same light as high school romances....we have not quite reached that level of acceptance, but think it is not too far off.

She is, in many ways, the most exquisitely unique woman I have ever known. And she breaks my heart.

Big flag on this one statement. The fact that you post this here tells me your wife is getting this message from you loud and clear. I suspect she has an inflated opinion of herself...and your attitude is contributing to this.

Turn this statement to yourself. What does stillprettyupset think of himself? What is his view of himself? Why do you have that view.

By the statistics I have discovered, adulterous women are neither exquisite or unique.....my wifes AP has found another one in less than a year. Not sure why your view of your wife is what it is...but just knowing what you have posted here should take her well away from either of the definitions associate with those two words. I understand you still love your wife, I love my wife....just make your view of her real and not exaggerated.

What were the results of her IC? How did it change her interactions within your M? How is she growing?

I see your pain in your post....I don't mean to add to it. I mean to encourage you to find the courage to face that which you are not wanting to. It is scary...not sure of your FOO issues, but mine were very scary to think about...actually less scary to face them directly. How much more hurt can I get? was a common question for me as I attempted to enact the wisdom I have gained from books and IC sessions.

Love Must Be Tough by Dr. Dobson is a must read. If you are not a reader, they make it in audio format.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:59 AM, December 8th (Sunday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4040 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, December 8th (Sunday)

I'm sorry you're hurting.

Does she want to R?m is she remorseful? Why has she cheated, at least twice, and what will be her reasons to not repeat her behavior in the future?

Aloof, pensive (lonely and without joy)........................................................awakened and together with exquisiteness, and in agony. Are there any other possible locations for you on this continuum?


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 958 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, December 8th (Sunday)

Wow gang, thanks for the comments but it is a lot to digest at one time. I'll be thinking through much of this before posting brain vomit.

Jim, goes both ways buddy. I will offer whatever I can to help in your situation as well. Your comment about your WW leaving her mother's deathbed was chilling. I guess it shows how totally foggy and F'd up people can get over a few compliments and some ego stroking.

I do want to clarify one thing I probably miscommunicated. I think the situation can change. It's telling every living soul in our lives that I feel would be counterproductive. So, you are it, people. You are my support group...my cronies...my vent-space. Thank you for that.

More later.


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, December 8th (Sunday)

NoMistake, she wants R...now. it was touch and go for a while. The affairs took place because she was lonely. I was sick and distant...that has changed. I traveled for work...that has not changed. So, at least a major portion of the risk remains.

Her IC after the first affair was merely to determine if she wanted to stay married or not. She said she got no answers, only more questions, so she quit going. Had nothing to do wit fixing our problems. Our sex life had flagged and with half the story, the counselor suggested I may be asexual. She heard that and ran with it as "there is no hope to improve".

I have no idea what a FOO is but I'm surely loaded wit them. I'll look it up. Blake, I'm still wrestling with much of what you have said.


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, December 8th (Sunday)

FOO - family of origin

If your W is really committed to R, she'll be willing to give up friends who are not FOMs - Friends of your Marriage. I suggest you require her to do that.

The affairs took place because she was lonely.

Absolutely not. She conducted her As because she was unwilling to face and resolve her own issues. You're just collateral damage.

She cheated on you when you were sick, and you're making excuses for her. You deserve to treat yourself a lot better.

Rather than face her own issues, she cheated on you when you were sick. Take that in.

Your healthiest path is probably to demand a lot more from her. I urge you to read extensively in the Healing Library, especially about the 180 in BS FAQs - #11, IIRC.

What's your W doing to show she wants to R? At a minimum, she should go NC, open all her electronic communications to you, keep you informed of her whereabouts and companions at all times, answer all of your questions honestly, do IC with the goal of becoming a great partner, do MC if/when you want.

C is cheaper than D, and it takes a lot less out of your days than D does. IMO, she should arrange C to start ASAP - and with a different C.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:58 PM, December 8th (Sunday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10384 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, December 8th (Sunday)

FOO is family of origin. I've never met someone who didn't have SOME FOO issues.

I always had a theory that we attach to people with similar damage to our own. I also think we subconsciously choose the person who will rip our childhood wounds open, so that we can work to heal them. I know that proved true for us. Your W likely has significant FOO issues or she wouldn't be making the choices she's made. She needs to dig all the way down to it in IC and not just focus on whether to remain married. If she doesn't get to the bottom of the behavior, it WILL happen again- and again.

For a long time we were the envy of many of our friends and an example to those who wanted a relationship. The good times were exceptional and the bad times were negligible. We faced problems as a team and overcame almost everything with love and determination.
I get this. We were the same way.

The affairs took place because she was lonely. I was sick and distant
That's not why she had As. It's an EXCUSE, but not a reason. The reason she had As is because there is something broken in her and she looks to others to fix that, when she's the only one who can fix it. She can only fix it by digging deep and dragging a bunch up painful stuff up and working through it. There are no shortcuts in the process and the WS who thinks they found one is in for a rude awakening. <<<THAT'S what happened to my H. He took shortcuts, but LIFE just wasn't having it and he was forced to deal with his stuff once and for all.

Posts: 11754 | Registered: Mar 2008
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, December 8th (Sunday)

Oh, thank you for the FOO thing. We are both as F'd up as anybody. I'm angry at my mother for driving my father away and feel rejected because he left. There is an answer to Blake's question... how do I feel about myself. And I'm certain that my defense mechanisms and psyche are at the mercy of a sad, angry, abandoned ten year old but that didn't lead me to devalue our relationship to the point that I cheated on her. So knowing that she moved around as a child, sprouting no roots because of her mother's 6 divorces and knowing she idolizes her father as the perfect ideal of a great husband doesn't hold water as an excuse to cheat either.

She was fluffy when I married her and lost 120 pounds from bariatric surgery over the last 5 years. One may think that would lead to new confidence and a physical awakening but she still has body issues and I am shocked she was able to overcome them enough to be physical with a random stranger. No doubt, there is a sense of entitlement but it doesn't spawn from my compliments and desire to make her happy by doing the dishes.

You are right that lonely is a half-assed excuse for a reason to betray someone you profess to love and we will continue arguing over that until she fixes herself. You are also right that I should be demanding more of her to R, to live, to be.

NoMistake, there may be a happy medium on the spectrum, but I can't see it. There is my issue to deal with.


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, December 8th (Sunday)

She was fluffy when I married her and lost 120 pounds from bariatric surgery over the last 5 years. One may think that would lead to new confidence and a physical awakening but she still has body issues and I am shocked she was able to overcome them enough to be physical with a random stranger. No doubt, there is a sense of entitlement but it doesn't spawn from my compliments and desire to make her happy by doing the dishes.

You are right that lonely is a half-assed excuse for a reason to betray someone you profess to love and we will continue arguing over that until she fixes herself. You are also right that I should be demanding more of her to R, to live, to be.

The bariatric surgery is a HUGE clue! I've seen that happen before. Sometimes they will turn to drugs, alcohol, or affairs because the underlying issue hasn't been addressed.

So knowing that she moved around as a child, sprouting no roots because of her mother's 6 divorces and knowing she idolizes her father as the perfect ideal of a great husband doesn't hold water as an excuse to cheat either.
Make no mistake- there is no excuse for cheating! Things often come to light that make it a bit easier to understand how it happened, though. That doesn't even mean it makes it hurts less, just easier to understand the workings of the wayward mind. Just looking at her history and your history, as you've posted here, it's becoming easier for me to see how your damage "matches".

In our case, on paper, you'd think *I* would be the one more likely to cheat- childhood sexual abuse, abusive relationships, date rapes... ALL of the ingredients are there, but I think the difference was in the way we handled that stuff. I was very out and open about my life and, somehow, understood from a young age that those things meant that there was something wrong with the people who harmed me, and not something wrong with me. I chose a man was outwardly mature, not abusive, and I thought he was the most stable person I'd ever met. I didn't know that there was stuff he had repressed so much that HE was even unaware that it had happened to him. His issue was also childhood sexual abuse. When kids are sexually abused, they develop ways of coping that are helpful, at the time, but they become destructive, usually devastatingly so, later on in life. So, my next question for you: Do you know if she was sexually abused, as a child?

The most important thing to understand in all of this is also the most difficult to grasp and that is that the wayward behavior has nothing to do with you. It's shocking and difficult to understand, I know. But it comes from a brokenness inside the wayward, not from anything you are or aren't or anything that you did or did not do.


Posts: 11754 | Registered: Mar 2008
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, December 8th (Sunday)

I don't know because she doesn't know. She has alluded to the possibility but maybe she has repressed it. Who can freakin tell. With her mom jumping from one dude to the next, it's almost impossible not to assume that there was a creep in the bunch.

We all seem to be broken people in a broken world of broken relationships. That is why, when we found each other, I was so optimistic for a good relationship. And why, if it ends, I will sever a lot of ties.

Interesting side note: I'm back sleeping on the couch again because once again she has a disinterest in sex. Funny, they were fucking like rabbits a few short months ago. Two days a week at least while I was living it up at the Hampton Inn with a sack of dollar menu McD's for my "soulmate".


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, December 8th (Sunday)

With her mom jumping from one dude to the next, it's almost impossible not to assume that there was a creep in the bunch.
That's what I thought, too!

Don't sleep on the couch! Seriously, if she doesn't want to share the bed with you, SHE needs to sleep on the couch!


Posts: 11754 | Registered: Mar 2008
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 4:40 AM, December 9th (Monday)

Right now, I don't even care. Maybe I'm just throwing a tantrum but I feel not only betrayed, but invalidated. We need to get through some of this but I will hear the same ole horseshit if I bring it up. "You're never going to trust me again. Do you just want a divorce?"

It's been 3 months since I caught her. And two years of lies. What amount of time is fair for you to let me grieve our marriage and what effort are YOU showing. Fuck!


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
nekorb
Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, December 9th (Monday)

I dont understand "friends" like that who encourage unhealthy behaviors. The OW's friends AND her mothe are encouraging her A with my WH.

What kind of mother says, "YEAH! He's a prize! He's married, but we can fix that!! Go for it!!".

Really??

I feel for you.

I am fortunate to have very good friends who will support my decision to stay or go but will also call me out on inappropriate behavior. (ie an affair would have been a MAJOR issue…they would not have taken kindly to it and would have told me so!)


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1838 | Registered: Aug 2013
Topic Posts: 18