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User Topic: New discovery, old affair
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I am so bummed by this I can barely function. I will try to discribe what has happened, but probably won't get it right.
My wife and I have been married 27 years come February, and we have had our ups and downs but I always thought that we had a good marriage together Recently two things have happened that has made me doubt everything. My wife has been out of town to take care of her mother who is very ill. While she was gone, I began to work on backing up our family documents, as my job is on a seasonal layoff, and I didn't have much else to do. Our Christmas shopping is always done by Thanksgiving. I was copying check fillers from about 4 years ago, when I noticed that for a period of 2 months, my wife wrote several checks to a hotel and some restaurants/ gas stations in a town about 20 miles from our home. Now normally My wife takes care of the finances, so I don't usually check our accounts as she has always been very good at this. She didn't know I was going to do this.
Now let me go back to 4 years ago. I was employed by a large manufacturing company, back then. Because of a down-sizing situation, my job was cut, but I was invited to take a similar job several states away. I was told this would only last a year and then I could return to my original plant as soon as somebody senior to me had retired. In fact it only took 8 months. These checks were written about halfway through the time I was away. The other plant was , as I said, several states away so I could not come home every weekend, plus it was too expensive, so we would take turns one weekend a month and she would come to me or I would fly home. Now the two months these checks were written were Jan. and Feb. Feb is our anniversary month so we splurged and I took her to Key West as an anniversary present, so I KNOW what happened during that month, or at least I thought I did. The date on the check to the hotel (bed and breakfast) was Sunday morning, when she told me sh went shopping for our trip.
I didn't call her to ask about the checks, because, something told me, I don't know what, but something told me I should look into this on my own. Now I want you to know that I have NEVER been jealous of my wife. She is very beautiful, but has always been a completely trustworthy person. She is a financial officer at her work, and a church goer. But SOMETHING told me to investigate for myself.
I drove over to the hotel and asked for the manager, told him who I was and showed him the check. He looked at me very funny and said that I could not be who I said I was, because Mr. and Mrs......... had stayed at his hotel and I was not the man. I showed him a picture of my wife and she definitely was the woman, so I showed him some ID (credit cards, DL, SS card ) before he would believe me. Then he told me that for 2 weekends, my wife and another man had stayed at his hotel, once in Feb and once in March. the first time my wife had paid the bill, the second time the man had paid the bill with cash, which he remembered because it is so unusual. I was shocked, still am. I went back and looked at the checks, 6 total, then I got and looked at the phone records for those months, Jan. Feb. and March, and there were several calls to a # i didn't recognize. I couldn't get the phone Co. to give me the name , so I called. A man answered and I told him my name and he got very upset, told me that it was over a long time ago and not to call again, and hung up. My wife called me yesterday and asked me not to do anything until she got home to explain, said that she loved me more than anything and would answer all of my questions and "make it up to me". She obviously got a call from the man, because she never even asked about it. She is coming home tomorrow. that's about where I stand right now. What should I do? What can I do? My emotions are all over the place. I really need somebody to give me some ideas on what I should do and how to proceed.

[This message edited by Bdell at 1:03 AM, December 16th (Monday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, December 16th (Monday)

This...
A man answered and I told him my name and he got very upset, told me that it was over a long time ago and not to call again, and hung up.
...is completely contradicted by this...
My wife called me yesterday and asked me not to do anything until she got home to explain, said that she loved me more than anything and would answer all of my questions and "make it up to me". She obviously got a call from the man, because she never even asked about it.

After all if it was over "a long time ago" then how are they still in contact?

1. You don''t have to make any decisions right now
2. The OM''s BW (assuming he''s married) should be informed. He can take his "don''t call me again" and shove it up his arse.
3. NC letter
4. IC for her to figure why she did that. And no, your being apart is not an excuse. There are plenty of married couples who have had to live separately because of work and other reasons. It does not result in cheating. After all you didn''t stray.
5. Full disclosure on your terms. That means a timeline and answering all your questions, but only when you''re ready.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3872 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 1:30 AM, December 16th (Monday)

The first thing you need to insist on is absolutely no contact between your wife and this man. They obviously still have no difficulty contacting each other if she already knows what is going on.

Your wife may try to blame shift but as Brandon said, separation is not an excuse. She made a choice. You can take responsibility for your part of any marital difficulties you may have had but it absolutely 100% her fault that she cheated.

She may try to minimize the affair or claim it wasn't physical. I got the story that "we just kissed once and it was uncomfortable". Six months later I got the truth which was sex in pretty much every way possible. It's very unlikely that there wasn't sexual involvement because where there is opportunity there is usually activity.

His wife should be told. She deserves to know for the same reason you deserved to know. They both made decisions about your marriages and your health without your consent. They may claim to have used condoms but there are some diseases that are spread despite condom use. I know because I was given one. You simply can't tell if someone carries something just by looking at them. And if he cheated with your wife there may have been others.

The book "Not Just Friends" is excellent reading for what the betrayed spouse goes through and how to set up boundaries to prevent recurrence. It also gives very good reasons for why your wife needs to go 100% no contact with the guy and give you 100% transparency. Unwillingness to do both seriously compromises the likelihood of reconciliation.

Remember to eat and drink. If you can't stomach food, get some Ensure or Boost or some nutritional supplements to try to stay healthy during this. It's physically and emotionally draining and it is not likely to get better for some time.

Read up on the 180 in case you have to protect yourself from an unremorseful spouse. You'll find most of what you need in the healing library.

Best wishes.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4102 | Registered: Sep 2005
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:46 AM, December 16th (Monday)

She called me a minute ago, crying and promised that she wasn't cheating on me , NOW. That it ended after a couple of months, that she only was with him (sexually) once. I reminded her about what the B&B owner told me, and she swore on her life that the first weekend they didn't have sex, just kissed and cuddled as if that makes me feel any better. She asked for forgiveness, and apologized probably 20 times in 5 minutes. Said that she was lonely and it was just a fling, and that she would prove it was over in March , for me to "look into my heart" and forgive her. I can't eat or sleep I'm a nervous wreck.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 1:56 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Welcome to SI, Bdell. I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation.

Whether or not it is ongoing, the damage is done. Your wife needs to learn with a quickness that she cannot sweep her behavior under the rug and throw candy at you to make it go away.

Read through our Healing Library, and the targeted posts in JFO are very helpful as well.

You're about to embark on a hellish rollercoaster of emotion, but you WILL come out ok. That's why so many of us stick around - to tell you that it hurts like hell in the beginning but you're going to get through this.

Do not let your wife minimize. There's no "it was only" or "it was a mistake" or "I'm not that person anymore." She needs to take ownership and have some humility. It's the baseline of what you deserve. Take some deep breaths, and know that you're not alone.

Come post updates or just vent whenever you need to. The holidays are a little slower here because people are running around, but it is also a more confusing time for people who have just found out so people will come along to help you. I found out 3 years ago on the 17th of this month. It's ok to set the holidays aside if you need to grieve. They will be here next year and the year after that.

You take care of YOU, and lean on us.

(((Bdell)))


Edited To Add: The OM (other man) likely paid cash because he is married and was more adept at covering his tracks than your wife. When you have the strength it would be the right thing to do to present evidence to his wife. Just something for the back burner while you get your bearings.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 1:58 AM, December 16th (Monday)]


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17544 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I don't know. I can't understand why? Our sex life has, to say the least, been active. In fact, during my time away from home, our sex life was ravenous. when we would have long weekends together, all we did was eat , sleep and have sex. I have always been or tried to be romantic, and we talked, then and now, constantly.
AT Christmas, right before this happened, she cried and pleaded for me to allow her to quit her job and come and stay with me. that she couldn't bare to be without me. And after I got home in May we were as happy as newlyweds.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 1:59 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I don't know. I can't understand why? Our sex life has, to say the least, been active. In fact, during my time away from home, our sex life was ravenous. when we would have long weekends together, all we did was eat , sleep and have sex. I have always been or tried to be romantic, and we talked, then and now, constantly.

This isn't on you. There's not a "why" in the equation that can be answered with something that points the blame at you. Unhappiness in a relationship is one thing. There is zero excuse for cheating. Do NOT blame yourself.


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17544 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 1:59 AM, December 16th (Monday)

don't forgive her. When she gets back go the complete 180. Tell her to tell you everything in every gory detail or you will see a lawyer. then see a lawyer anyway.

find out who the OM is, the force your wife to tell his wife.

Obviously, your wife betrayed you. it sounds hard, but that's my advice.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:02 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Thank you all so much. I cried yesterday and I haven't done that since I was a kid. I go from rage to deep sadness to wishing it would all just go away. During one of my angry moments I called his number again. I left a message that if he didn't tell his wife , I would. I don't even know if he has a wife. But if he does, she is going to know.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:05 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Be prepared for OM to have a story ready for his wife about how you are a crazy axe murderer who just escaped from the asylum.

Hold your cards close to your chest. Collect evidence. Stay calm. Do not rely on your wife to do the right thing until she is out of the fog about what she has done.


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17544 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 2:10 AM, December 16th (Monday)

whatever you do, please, please be hard on her. I've seen countless BS's, usually men, pussy-foot and whine and mewl to their spouse. it never works. The WS just loses respect for you.

she doesn't deserve your forgiveness now. she betrayed you and has been lying to you. another man has been banging your wife and she didn't tell you about it. got it? does that deserve forgiveness?

remember, you had to find out for yourself. she was lying to you.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:10 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Its 3:00 am and the phone has been ringing constantly. My wife keeps trying to call me, but I don't want to answer. thankfully I don't have to work till after the "Holidays". Why? why?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:16 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Here's a thread that describes the "180"

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

It's a tool that many of us have used to get our power back when we feel like we're bleeding out in the relationship.

I don't think it's constructive to be "hard" on the WS during this time, if you can help it at all. I also don't think that it's constructive to beg or plead, again if we can help it. The thing is, there's so much rage and sadness in the beginning that you can only do your best to control what you can, and not to be hard on yourself when it all comes tumbling out.

The 180 is about reserving your energy for yourself. I think it's very important to stand up for yourself and be strong, but I also remember saying awful, hateful things to FWH that in retrospect just caused more damage to my own heart as well as his.

Just try to hang onto who YOU are. It's scary, but you will find yourself again through all this mess. I promise.


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17544 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 2:25 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I respectfully disagree jrazz. I think he should ask her to move out. he won't of course. but he should. she needs to see consequences for her actions. Then he has time to think about it.

But this is what will happen, she will beg him not to tell the OM's wife. she'll be protecting her AP. Obviously she's still in touch with him. Interestingly, even though she was out of town, her AP knew how to contact her immediately. Pretty close contact don't you think?

IMO he needs to ignore her begging and pleading.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I don't think we're disagreeing in the big-picture sense, mike7.

I don't think that he should respond to begging or pleading either.

If this was truly an incident that can be encapsulated in the scenario that he feels is put before him, and he is interested in reconciliation, communication is going to be key - even in these early stages of anguish.

Believe me, I was a fucking trainwreck for months - if not the first year. I'm just planting seeds for productivity if he has a shred of hope that his wife may have the capacity to atone for what she has done.

It's SUPER early to be able to tell what's going to happen next, Bdell. I want you to protect yourself first and foremost, as my other posts have indicated. There's an instinct for many to hurt the WS back in the beginning, and I don't want to see you spending any heart or time on that. Right now this is about you piecing together your new reality and figuring out what you want to do next.

Best advice I EVER got here? You don't HAVE to make any decisions right now. Not for you, and certainly not for her. You get to take as much time as you need. Period.


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17544 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:39 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I don't want to do any of this. When I read about all of the issues other people have faced and how long it has taken to repair their marriages, it fills me with despair. How can I ever trust her again? How can I sleep with her after she has f**ked somebody else? Our kids are in college, what do I tell them? Do I have to eat this great big sh*t snadwich, and learn to like it? 4 days ago I had the best wife ever, now I've got a sl*t for a wife? If this is Karma , what did I ever do to deserve this? Who have I ever screwed over so bad that I have to deal with this? How can she possibly prove anything to me now? 5 years? I've got to wait 5 years before this is over? Or will it EVER be over?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 2:45 AM, December 16th (Monday)

it will never be over friend. she has permanently changed your marriage. that's why I said don't immediately forgive her. I agree with Jrazz, you don't have to make ANY decision now. If you just jump to her tears and say I forgive you, you WILL regret it.

I'm sorry you are here. But prepare yourself as best you can before she returns. If she tries to protect her AP, you will know she isn't serious.

Try to take care of yourself. Don't get drunk. That doesn't help anything. Try to keep your wits about you. And don't cave in to her. She doesn't deserve it, as you now know.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:49 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I finally answered her calls and I've told her to go to her sister's to stay. I simply can't face her right now. I asked her if her boyfriend was married, was she still involved with him and when was the last time they saw each other. She told me he was married, that she didn't have his number anymore until he called her to tell her that I called him.That she hasn't see or talked to him since she ended it in March of that year. That he was NOT her boyfriend or anything else to her. that what she did was horrible and inexcusable and that she would do anything I say. I told her to make sure, I don't know or care how, that his wife knows everything. That she tell the kids why we are not having Christmas. I called her a few choice names. I wish I hadn't but I couldn't control my mouth.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:54 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Too late on the drinking part. I think what I want to do is drink until I pass out. It's the only way I'm going to get any sleep. Don't worry , I'm not going to do anything rash or silly. Just sit by the fireplace and listen to some tunes and detox with my old buddy George Dickel

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 3:04 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Ok,

be safe friend. Its good that she's staying at her sister's. I think you had a good start. Now you can think about things.

I did the same thing. I immediately told my wife to leave, take her AP. I didn't want her anymore. She immediately fell on her knees, blah, blah, begged for forgiveness.

the problem is.... i'm still not sure if I DO want her. I prefer reconciliation for others. And I hope you eventually mend your marriage. But in my case, after all this time, I still can't get the mind-movies out of my head. I still can't decide whether I can stomach her.

So I know, that it will be with you for awhile.

While you were away from your family, trying to provide for them, she was fucking another guy, having little trips to Bed and Breakfasts, etc. Wait till you find out that she didn't use protection, so that she exposed you to STD's.. sorry to say that. Of course, she will say they used a condom.

Anyway... take care of yourself. I wish you the best. Please post here when you can. There's a great group of people here. They will help. We can sympathize because we've been/are where you are.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Lola88
Member
Member # 41540
Default  Posted: 4:09 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I so feel your pain Bdell, just want to offer support and ((hugs))

Many of your thoughts reflect my own - my long term so called happy marriage to the love of my life was blown to smithereens two and a half weeks ago. I've felt pain I never imagined in my life but just now I feel numb - not sure if that's a good sign or not, it's certainly not "me". My WH's affair had been going on for nine years when I found out and it kills me to think it still would be without the discovery.

I don't have words of wisdom I'm afraid, I'll leave that to the more experienced SI members but hope and pray you get the answers you need and perhaps some relief from the pain.

Take care of yourself, Lola


Posts: 127 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: UK
shiloe
Member
Member # 1224
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Bdell

Please listen to Mike. He knows what he is talking about. When first caught, WS will, lie, and minimize, and omit most everything.

You should be prepared to understand there was probably a lot more to this A than she will let on.

I think what I want to do is drink until I pass out. It's the only way I'm going to get any sleep

Yeah, that is one was to get some sleep. A better way, is to exercise, run, run on a treadmill, join a gym, pump some iron, punch a punching bag, anything physical, until you are so tired you easily fall asleep at night. That is what I ended up doing. It is healthier than booze or pills.

You can expect to begin losing weight on the infidelity diet now.

You are going to be in pain for quite a long time.
Please take this time to focus on taking care of yourself and don't fall into being self-destructive.


But remember, good love is hard to find . . -Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
BS - 54
Cheater -54
Married 26 yrs
DD - 21 DD -19 DS-17
A#1 2000 with married ho-worker/neighbor ow#1
A#2 2007-? OW#2 LTA with yet another married ho-worker. Kicked h

Posts: 598 | Registered: Mar 2003
1owner
Member
Member # 41157
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, December 16th (Monday)

So sorry this happened to you Bdell.

Your marriage and your life are now forever changed. The most important thing for you to do is stay strong for yourself. Spend some time in the healing library. Execute the 180. The 180 is for your benefit, to help you gain strength, it is not about punishing your spouse.

I will offer this from my experience: I wish I had found this site at dday. I was not strong enough, and my WW was unremorseful. This site has been invaluable to me, helping me to cope, gain strength, and make decisions. Talking to others helps.

Stay strong, and post often.

Good luck!


Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
Justgreatnews
Member
Member # 41666
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, December 16th (Monday)

You've got my sympathy BDell. I'm new around here, too, dealing with something from many years back that just came to light.

I believe men react differently to these shocks, it shakes us to the core of our manhood. (I mean no slight to the women here who've suffered so much also)

What particularly hurts is that she could do this without first trying to rectify whatever she feels she is missing in the marriage. Whatever it is, there is no justification for her acts. It is nothing more than selfishness and cruelty, and somewhere inside she knows this.


Posts: 261 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
Althea
Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Hi Bdell. I'm sorry you are here. Everything you said about how unfair it is, you're right, and we have all thought it. I no longer believe in Karma, because there is nothing any of us could have done that would call for the pain an affair inflicts. You are handling yourself well. One thing I did notice that just didn't add up to me is how the hotel owner remembered your wife if she was there two weekends years ago. Did I read that right? Does that make sense to you? I would call him again and ask him how often your wife was there. If you find out she was lying, it might be a good barometer for future conversations with her. By that I mean, if she is lying about how many times she was at that hotel, do not waste your time talking to her anymore, at least not until she has entered individual counseling (IC). The smartest thing I did on Dday was leave with my kids and tell my WH that I wasn't coming back until he was in counseling. Of course, I didn't do that; but I wish like Hell I had.

Your wife will want to tell you a lot about how lonely she was, how you weren't there, she may even try to blame problems in the marriage; but the truth is that only her brokenness allowed her to cheat and that is something SHE has to fix before you will ever be safe in your marriage again.

You don't have to stick around, 3-5 years is a long time and we all wish recovery was faster. Of course, it is going to take you years to heal from this regardless of whether you kick her to the curb, so there is that to consider too. I'm about 18 months out and on my way to being happy again with my husband; but we have both worked harder on ourselves and our relationship than I ever knew we could.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I just wanted to offer some hope. This is such a horrible time of year to be dealing with this. Sending big hugs your way.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 457 | Registered: Dec 2012
staystrong101
Member
Member # 41068
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, December 16th (Monday)

So Sorry BDell. But I have to say I agree with Mike on this. It's too suspicious that OM was able to contact your wife so quickly. She won't want you to tell his BS, because she will be protecting him. If she's not completely transparent, willing to tell you everything, and willing to make sure OM's spouse is aware of their Affair, then you know her loyalty is still to OM. And come on, she wants you to believe that the first weekend they spent in a hotel together, they didn't have sex? Please. I'm sure you want to believe this, but we are adults here right? And does it matter anyway?Your wife lied to you and went off to a hotel with OM. My WH tried to tell me that the time they spent in hotels and parking in deserted parking lots, they were just talking (and hugged but didn't want to kiss or anything physical bc didn't want to cross that line. Of course I don't believe this). I was a fool for a long time, but not anymore. And for me, the worst betrayal is not the sex. The EA is much worse than anything physical they did. BDell, don't let you WS continue to make a fool out of you. I'm so sorry you are here.

Posts: 90 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: United States
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Hi Bdell, sorry this life-changing disaster has happened to you. Your wife obviously values your marriage highly and is very remorseful. This will compel her to adopt a particular mindset; she will be heavily into damage control when she gets to see you.

You will get a very sanitized version of what happened in her affair; one time; a condom was used; she didn't orgasm; didn't even enjoy it because of her guilt, she had consumed alcohol, you weren't treating her right at that time etc. etc. Anything to get you to heal quickly and get back to what you had; which sadly has gone forever.

I would stay calm but sorrowful and tell your wife you have lost your trust in her and she has dumped on the perfect marriage; all those precious memories are tainted. Tell her you need time to consider whether to separate or not; you need to grieve the loss of a faithful wife.

Ultimately you are going to reconcile because in all fairness she is very remorseful and you both love each other, but not before you have hung a massive guilt trip on her and got her to understand that she no longer lives in Camelot.

Once you have all the facts, [well the sanitized ones will have to do], then act civilized; no abusive insults or fits of anger. That just gives her an excuse to paper over her guilt using your anger as the reason. Your quiet, reflective sadness is far more effective. Time will heal and it probably won't take 5 years. She needs to have patience and wait.



Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Bdell,

I am so sorry. It's like getting bit by a truck. Betrayal is traumatic, and it's normal to be unable to eat or sleep. I shook like a leaf for weeks.

It took time for me to internalize, but I think it's crucial to know that your wife's affair was not about you or your marriage or your sex life. Something is broken in her and she needs to fix it. People who cheat are not fully grown-up or healthy emotionally. They have poor personal boundaries and lousy coping skills. They are good at denial and compartmentalization--basically, they are good at lying to themselves.

I also found it strange that the guy at the bed and breakfast would remember your wife from four years ago. I think it's good that your wife went to her sister's. I would take some time to take care of yourself. See a doctor about Getting some Ambien if the sleep problem gets tough (better than alcohol and fewer side-effects).

Keeping reading and posting. I would also think about insisting that your wife see a counselor by herself. She needs to figure out why she would throw away her marriage vows and her integrity, lie to the people who love her the most, and risk her happy marriage and family. "Because I was lonely" doesn't cut it. Sex with a scummy cheater is her coping mechanism for dealing with difficult feelings?

Were you ever lonely? Probably, yet you didn't consider cheating because you can handle a little loneliness without escaping into sleaziness and deceiving your family. Your wife has a lot of work to do before she is a safe person to be with and before she deserves your marriage.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, December 16th (Monday)

The reason the B & B owner remembered her was because the man (her husband!!!!!) was Arab or Indian -American. And they get few interracial couples. I never mentioned it because it really doesn't matter who she cheated with also I did not want to be accused of Racism. According to my wife, she lost his Phone# but he kept hers. That is how he called her.
She is coming home (back to our town) today. I have told her that I will call when I am ready to meet with her. But until that . she has some work to do. She must tell the OM's wife and I must receive conformation from the wife, and she must tell the kids. These two things will have to be done before we meet. I also talked to a lawyer this morning about divorce proceedings. Damn, it makes me sick just saying that.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, December 16th (Monday)

The phone logs will give you a better timeline than your WW will. I suggest you go beyond that January that you found out and keep coming up to date. Don't forget texts! Also check how long the recent call was.

Posts: 1544 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
tearingaway
Member
Member # 28618
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, Bdell. Your wife is lying about the staying at the B&B and just cuddling the first time. It's absolutely a load of crap!

Minimization, deflection, and obfuscation are the name of the game. My WW did it. Many, many other WSs did it and do it regularly.

Right now you need to take care of yourself and begin getting yourself organized. You may need to see an attorney soon.

I find it interesting that your WW was in such quick contact with the OM. It is possible that there have been more meetings than those you already discovered.

Another thing I want to say is that you need to be on guard against your WW's idea that all is well now because it happened some time ago. I discovered my WW's A years after it happened and she tried to pull the "it happened so long ago" trick on me to make things somehow better for our M. The fact is that the A just happened for YOU. Now you have to decide what to do.

Most people here on SI will say to wait six months before making any big decisions. I don't necessarily agree with that. It may just be a deal breaker for you right now. I know that I stayed in my M, but in hindsight I should have just left and gone through D.

Good luck.


Posts: 334 | Registered: May 2010
kra127
Member
Member # 41045
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I too suspect you will get more of the story when you check back further in phone records, emails, texts, etc. WS's like to minimize especially in the beginning. Please go get yourself tested for STDs. Unfortunately, you are now a passenger on this shitty rollercoaster that none of us choose to get on. Try to care for yourself and do something to help relieve the stress whether it's walking, journaling, cleaning etc. I'm sorry you are here.


Me 40
WS 39
2 young kids, Married 10 yrs
OW 22, admitted to EA and then TT to PA two weeks later. Also, found out about several "friends".
Dday 10/8/13
Divorcing

Posts: 92 | Registered: Oct 2013
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, December 16th (Monday)

(((Bdell))) I'm so sorry you're here, but glad you found us.

I, too, found out about an old infidelity years later.

This presents certain difficulties. First, the WS has had the benefit of making things "okay" in his/her mind. S/he knows what happened, has compartmentalized it, and wrapped it in a myth ("I was lonely," "You weren't there," "You always rejected me," "Our marriage was bad then," whatever...) to justify it.

The WS has spent YEARS telling him/herself this story whenever the box into which s/he'd stuffed the lies threatened to pop open in his/her mind.

When the truth comes out, they are gobsmacked. How did THAT happen?! It was a secret, and you finding out wasn't part of the story they made up!

Don't be surprised if anger surfaces, in your wife, rather quickly. There will be an expectation that you "just get over" it. It "was so long ago," "and has been over for so long!" "It was only a few times" etc., etc., etc.

If you don't box it up and shove it into your attic fast, she will get angry.

I'm warning you: the impulse will be to maintain the status quo. To tell yourself, "at least it's over and done with. She's been a good wife since then." To rugsweep.

Please---don't do this. The secrets and lies MUST be dealt with because, as long as they exist between you, there is a barrier to intimacy.

Really, the affair is horrible. But worse is that, every minute that she's been with you since has been a lie.

THAT has to be confronted.

You can get through this--truly. If your wife is genuinely remorseful, you can sift through the damage together and reconcile.

The other dude has to go. That he was able to so easily and immediately get in touch with your wife is profoundly worrisome. There needs to be NO avenue by which he can contact her.

And that's just for starters. I'd get her started on a timeline--and go 180 until she stopped sniveling and got busy cleaning up her mess. (For example, the inn owner knowing you're not Mr. Cheater? That wouldn't happen if it had only been a visit or two several years ago. That lie is one she needs to address---and the timeline can help her do that.)

As awful as you feel right now, I PROMISE it gets better. No matter what the outcome, YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS.

Be sure to stay hydrated. (I'd avoid alcohol.) Eat small, frequent meals or get protein supplements if eating is difficult. Take a good quality multivitamin. Rest when you can; if sleep is a problem, try dyphenhydramine (generic Benedryl) or melatonin or, if they don't work, talk with your doctor. Grief is normal; if it segues into depression, talk with your doctor, too. Exercise daily. Good self-care can help keep you intact during this most horrendous ordeal.

And come here, often. This is the best group of people on the planet, and the different viewpoints you will see will help inform your decisions.

ETA: I know this is obnoxiously long, and I apologize. But I wanted to add something in response to one of your later posts, when you touched on karma and questioned what you'd done to deserve this.

Bdell, this has NOTHING to do with you. I know it's impossible for you to really believe that now--but tuck it inside your mind, and let it stay there. As time goes on, and you observe your wife, learn more about her actions, and see how she's comported herself for the past several years---as things come to light---it will become clearer and clearer to you that NO, this is NOT about your deficiencies, but rather about her seeking to fill her own cracks and holes. There is something missing in HER that causes her to seek a sordid hotel relationship with another man. (And really, it doesn't matter HOW nice the B&B is, or how fabulous the dude looks on paper. Anything requiring the level of deception and duplicity of your wife's long-term affair is as seedy and sordid as if she were banging a meth-head in a burned out car. Seriously.)

As she tells you the deficiencies in you and your marriage (which she will, if given the opportunity), PLEASE stifle the impulse to internalize her negativity. Even if you don't believe it, tell yourself, "This is not about me. It's about her."

One day, you will know it's the truth.

You didn't do ANYTHING that makes your wife's actions acceptable.

Remember that.

ETA again: please consider telling the OM's wife, yourself, when you have more information to share. She, too, has been betrayed, and it might not be the kindest thing to require that SHE learn of the infidelity from the woman who helped destroy her life. Once you've checked more of the records, and have a more fleshed-out timeline, you can let the wife know, at least, when the affair started, where they met, and how long it lasted. (Sadly, I think you will discover it lasted longer than you have been told. I don't buy the "They were so memorable to the innkeeper because his skin was browner than his" story; it's not plausible in 2013.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 10:16 AM, December 16th (Monday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8728 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I think you've made some good moves so far Bdell. It will be interesting if she follows through.

One thing you should consider. She said he wasn't a boyfriend, that it just happened. You know that's not true. This guy wooed her. she became enamored with him. At a minimum they went to the B and B twice. That just didn't happen by chance unless you believe she randomly picked out a stranger to fuck.

No.. She was pining for him while she went to Key West with you. She was already in a relationship and planning on screwing him.

you know that's true. See if she admits to that. that will be a sign as to whether she is lying about the depths of her betrayal.

I'm really sorry to say those things, but I know that you can't be thinking too clearly. the pain of this stuff is just horrible.

But... like some have said, things will get better. You will heal. that much I know.

Hang in there friend.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
shiloe
Member
Member # 1224
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, December 16th (Monday)

According to my wife, she lost his Phone# but he kept hers. That is how he called her.

I don't believe that at all.


But remember, good love is hard to find . . -Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
BS - 54
Cheater -54
Married 26 yrs
DD - 21 DD -19 DS-17
A#1 2000 with married ho-worker/neighbor ow#1
A#2 2007-? OW#2 LTA with yet another married ho-worker. Kicked h

Posts: 598 | Registered: Mar 2003
DefeatedDad
Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I kicked my wife out too. It hurt to do so, and I felt like a dick, but looking back it helped alot because not having her around me helped me to think more clearly and not act out rashly.

My wife was different from yours in that she did not immediately say she wanted to stay married. She was guilt tripping badly, being all dramatic, and said I didn't deserve her and she just wanted to crawl off and die somewhere and for me to just forget about her.

So a couple months after I kicked her out, when I wasn't getting any message that she anted to address the A and work on our issues, I filed for divorce.

When she got served it woke her up from the dreamland she was in, she fell apart and nearly had a breakdown. She immediately switched tunes and started begging me not to D her.

what I guess I'm trying to say is, do not let your WW manipulate you or try to minimize what she did. Do not let her guilt trip you or try to lay the blame the affair on you. If she oes that just hang up the phone.

I like the fact that you told her to tell the other man's wife. Good going. You also need her to write you out a timeline of the affair, when they met, how often they got together, everything. I guarantee those two weekends at the hotel were not their only hookups. My wife trickle-truthed for a few weeks. First they had only gotten together three times. I found evidence to the contrary and busted her. This happened two more times, until she finally came clean and admitted to a six month long affair with at least twenty or so sexual encounters with her OM.

Remember your wife is going to try to minimize everything, and she will outright lie to your face. So trust nothing she says. verify everything. I still did not find out the full scale of my wife's sexual escapades with her OM until a month-and-a-half ago or so, and it nearly tipped me towards going through with the divorce.

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 11:10 AM, December 16th (Monday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, December 16th (Monday)

You're getting really good advice here. I would add that there is every chance she has cheated on more than one occasion with more OM's than this one. The excitement, newness and validation from a different guy is very addictive. Its hard to believe that she spent two full weekends with this guy, [did she also spend the night with him?], and then straight into bed with you for your anniversary in Key West, with no observable guilt for what she did. Thats the actions of a 'pro' who may have done this before and since.

Best of luck getting her to confess to repeated cheating though; as I said she is going to minimize the damage and the last thing you will get is the truth, since she was never racked with guilt about her adultery; not enough to confess anyway.

Some people may say there is something broken inside of her. I prefer to note the disrespect for both you and your marriage. If your marriage was very good with an excellent sex life, what was she doing risking your health screwing other men?

She has some explaining to do.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Hey man. Sorry for what you are going through.

I had an amount of time between when I found about about my Ws A and when it occurred.

You got solid advice from the others, but I wanted to pass along something that is unique in your situation.

Your W has had a lot of time to make her peace with her actions. She has played out numerous times how it will go in her head. Sometimes down playing of the significance of their actions happens. This is a defense mechanism so they can live with themselves.

Sadly in our common scenario the magnitude of discovery is not felt as much as those who found out right after. She has had a lot of time to create justification, rehearse speeches and take the drivers seat on how the healing will occur. A lot of times we as BS are too wounded to make sense of anything so we go along with it.

If you take any advice. Come up with your own plan. You've done well so far. Have the lawyer draws up S and D documents. It can cost some money, but I'll tell you what, those attorney bills that wife opened in the mail really knocked her out of her planned reality.

Sadly most often important details are withheld. The story is played in their head. They assume you will forgive them as it is a zero sum game.

"Well it was only twice and I gave him X years of love and being faithful."

No it works more like this "Since I have been lied lied to for X years, it means that those years are false. Anything done or said in that time now is open to closer inspection as it has been proven that your W is very capable and willing to lie, deceive and take away important information you need to make decisions in your life."

Remind her of that in writing, speaking can lose it's saliency. I am working towards a reconciled M today. It took a heck of a lot of work on both our parts. However any time in the beginning that I let my W drive things, it almost always had a rationale that was to minimize damage on her part. The sad truth is that the damage was already done, only know are you seeing how much.

Keep your chin up. Draw a line in the sand and don't waver. R will need to be on your terms to start. Anything she refuses just adds insult to injury. Now is not the time for compromises.

I know that sounds harsh, but believe those of us that learned the hard way. Take it slow with the drinking. Too many times did I drink to erase the pain only to wake up the next day to have it magnified.

Keep reading here if you can't sleep. Take some time away from your W. If you don't feel like talking to her, don't. She is feeling the consequences of her actions right now. Let her sit in it for awhile. You take care of number 1 first. Always remember that.

Touchy feeling, talking and healing can happen later. Set the tone on your terms. Take your power back right now. IC is helpful if you are open to it. You wouldn't be the first BH that needed that. Meds if you are willing can also be a godsend. Speaking from experience there. I would not have come out on the other side without some medical help.

Take care. I know this is early, but realize that nothing you did or didn't do caused this to happen. Don't sacrifice the illusion of control over these events for guilt and remorse. Those aren't your to own right now. It ain't worth it. This is 100% on your W and don't let her muddy those waters. Take some time and distance from her and your M. Don't do anything you feel you may regret later. This is not fair, but with time you come to realize that things come into your lives that are outside of our control. Deserve is not part of this equation, ever.

PM me if you want to.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
hitbyatruck
Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, December 16th (Monday)

This isn't adding up to me at all. A B&B manager remembers your wife and the man she was with 4 yrs ago enough to need to see your ID??? Did he look up records? Why was he so helpful to begin with. I didn't think they would turn over much info let alone give you a description of the Other Man.

Remove yourself from all the drama. Let her come to you only when you are ready.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3280 | Registered: Apr 2009
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I agree with everyone saying that she may try to minimize. I know that's how my WW has acted. She has denied and lied until faced with enough "evidence" that she just can not deny it any longer. Even then, she tries to minimize.

IMO, the fact that she is remorseful is a good sign. My WW is not at all, and that's a hell that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. If your wife is remorseful, if she answers all of your questions without trying to blame you, and she owns what she did, then I would think that is about as well as this could go. But, you need to look out for you right now and take all the time you need before making any decisions.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, December 16th (Monday)

You have goten great advice here. Read it over and over. Numb has a unique perspective on this I think has alot of validity. Please pay close attention to it. All I can say in addition is chaters lie, they make up elaboate coping mechanisims. Dont believe a word your wife says about this relationship. It will all be crap and a way to minimize the fall out. Verify every word you can and hold her accountable to her actions. mr nice guy is gone, she fucked someone else. She deserves no quarter, stay strong.
LHAP?

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 12:43 PM, December 16th (Monday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Nov 2010
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I have talked to my wife and the OM's wife already today. PLus my SIL and my kids. My wife did talk to the OM's wife and told her about the affair. Then after that the OM's wife called me to confirm it and to ask me some questions of her own. A few minutes ago the OM, himself called me and apologized and agreed to answer any questions I might have. He is Pakistani and owns a store in our town, and is very concerned about possible fallout to his business, so I know he will probably be pretty honest about it. Unfortunately, since 9/11, Arab and Asian Americans face a lot of prejudice, and he is also worried about that, and possible hate crimes. His wife said that he is terrified that, as she put it, a "gang " of white people would attack him. Both he and his wife are petrified that this will ruin them. In fact his wife was so serious that I had the first laugh I have had in 4 days. I am not racist so they have nothing to fear from me.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I have checked phone records and so far the earliest call to or from his phone were in Late November and were very short. the last call, either way, was in late May, and it too was very short. Since then there doesn't seem to be any phone contact. I have asked for and gotten my wife's passwords for her PC, but she doesn't have a text phone so I don't think I have to worry about that. My SIL called me and has said that my wife is a basket case. So I agreed to talk to her. She told me that after my wife ended the affair, my wife went to a marriage counselor, who advised her to not confess but to end the affair and work on " being the best wife she could be". I told her to have my wife get the Counselors phone # number to confirm this, as well. One thing I HAVE decided, my wife must prove everything she tells me. I am going to take her word for nothing, for the foreseeable future. I really don't want to say what mu kids and I talked about, only to say that both of them have given me complete support for any decision I may make, and that they are extremely disillusioned with their Mom.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, December 16th (Monday)

One thing I HAVE decided, my wife must prove everything she tells me. I am going to take her word for nothing, for the foreseeable future.

You are a wise man. Even after a couple of years I still verify sometimes. However I have also dealt with this by realizing that nothing I do will stop her if she wants to cheat again. If she does I will D her. She knows that. It is tremendously freeing to realize you will be fine either way. She is optional in your future. She always was, but you were reminded of that through this experience. Start gaining back the parts of you that were sacrificed to become one half of a M. Be whole on your own and stay M only if it enhances what is already there. Let your W carry the burden she brought into the M. You can always walk away if it comes to that.


My SIL called me and has said that my wife is a basket case.

Be wary. Blood is thicker than water. Only a basket case ? My W went catatonic and cried so hard she threw up. She later admitted to her IC that she wanted to end everything. Insist she seek help if it starts to get worse. What is her plan ? What is she doing right now ? Actions, not words. Words, especially from someone who lied to you, are cheap. What is her plan to win you back ? Does she even want to ?

It sucks when dealing with the consequences of your choices. Mind you, it was a choice. A deliberate one.

So I agreed to talk to her.

Talking is fine. This is a confusing thing too. Don't commit to anything. I don't know is an acceptable answer. I am not sure right now. Give it some time to sink in. General rule of thumb is to give it 6 months before making any big life altering decisions. Then re-evaluate. The point being let the intense emotions ebb. Rational thinking is hard with so many emotions flying all over the place.

She told me that after my wife ended the affair, my wife went to a marriage counselor, who advised her to not confess but to end the affair and work on " being the best wife she could be".

Why is your SIL telling you this instead of your W ? It sounds like your SIL may be telling you things to try and soften you up to take her back. Manipulation, if you ask me.

The best wife she could have been would have been honest with you. Especially about things that effect your life in a big way. Follow up with the MC. Ask your W to sign a release with the MC. MC will not disclose otherwise.

MC is a mixed bag. I have had my own experiences that were not exactly positive. Encouraging one spouse to lie to other is not really sound advice.

If you do MC again, I would look for another one. Would you trust this MC again ? They colluded to deceive you in the past, why would the future be any different ?

I know I sound harsh, but this is a script your W and SIL have written awhile ago. I would advise that you not share anything with your SIL you don't want your W to know. After all SIL lied to you too.

You are doing better than I was at this stage. You are going to be fine. It will get worse before it gets better, but believe me when I say people do survive this and are happy again.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Personally, I could buy the story about the MC telling her not to tell you. I personally think it is selfish of the WS to tell the BS if the BS would never find out and the BS did truly end the affair and recommitted themselves to their marriage. If that's what happened in your case, then I would give your WW some credit for it. Please know that I'm not trying to justify her actions at all though.

I'm sure others have a differing opinion. But, I know that I would rather being living in ignorant bliss right now than the hell I'm in.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, December 16th (Monday)

She told me that after my wife ended the affair, my wife went to a marriage counselor, who advised her to not confess but to end the affair and work on " being the best wife she could be".

I hate this advice, but it is not uncommon. That is equivalent to saying live a lie the rest of your life and donít let your spouse have the power to choose what is correct for them you choose it for them.

Keep the conversation between you and your W and on your terms from now on. Involving kids and outlaws only complicates matters. Continue to verify everything said and if you want to Reconcile and try to repair it starts with a NC letter, STD testing, A timeline of the affair and getting a long fu**ing way away from that counselor who told her to lie. Find another one who has experience with infidelity. You both need to start reading ASAP book on how to recover from an affair, with or without your marriage.
This shit sucks man, no two ways about it. I have had 2 wifeís who cheated on me. I have taken both paths (divorce and reconciliation), neither any easier than the other. I wish you well.
LHAP?

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 2:43 PM, December 16th (Monday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Nov 2010
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I am very impressed with the way you are handling this crisis. You are staying calm and making reasonable demands that your wife is meeting. Wish I had remained this calm when faced with my WH's adultery.

One thing I insisted on was no physical intimacy until I had time to come to terms with this disaster. I couldn't deal with this and the betrayal at the same time, and damned if I was going to reward him for cheating.

Again congratulations on being firm and decisive. You seem to be digging out the truth and reconciliation will be that much easier as a consequence.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, December 16th (Monday)

For most of us is is almost impossible to make a decision to physically stay in or leave the marriage this early in the game..

It is hell not knowing what the next year of your life is gonna look like, she pulled the rug out from under your feet...

So please don't commit to R any time soon..Tell her that she essentially threw a fire ball at your marriage and reduced your relationship to charcoal..

It is normal to take a long time before letting her know if you even want to R with her or not...IMHO she deserves to be in limbo...

Lay out your conditions of R whenever you feel strong enough and think you may be heading in that direction..

For safety sake consult a lawyer (specialist in family law/divorce) to see what rights and entitlements you have in divorce.. Follow the lawyers advice to protect yourself financially and legally so you aren't reduced to financial ruin should you decide to divorce her..

Sending you strength


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1202 | Registered: Nov 2011
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I just wabnt to add that my WW's IC also told her to take her secrets to the grave after I found out. Meaning, her IC advised her to minimize.

I am not sure where these MC's or IC's come from.

But I do agree with this:

Personally, I could buy the story about the MC telling her not to tell you. I personally think it is selfish of the WS to tell the BS if the BS would never find out and the BS did truly end the affair and recommitted themselves to their marriage. If that's what happened in your case, then I would give your WW some credit for it. Please know that I'm not trying to justify her actions at all though.
^^^ There does come a point as the affair fades into the past that a confession does become a selfish activity. Only YOU can decide if your WW re-committed herself to the M after making the poor choices to have an A.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, December 16th (Monday)

******Start gaining back the parts of you that were sacrificed to become one half of a M. Be whole on your own and stay M only if it enhances what is already there. Let your W carry the burden she brought into the M. You can always walk away if it comes to that.*******

I love this advice..I know all of us give this same advice here but the way this was worded struck a cord with me...This is a perfect description of what the 180 is about IMHO..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1202 | Registered: Nov 2011
Justgreatnews
Member
Member # 41666
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I have to say, BDell, that I admire the resolute approach you are taking.

Your wife obviously did not take into account you or your feelings prior to undertaking this affair. I see no reason you should tailor your response to try and protect her or her feelings.

You're doing what you feel is necessary and just, and I do admire it.


Posts: 261 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Btw, how would a hotelier remember an incidental customer from 4 years ago?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Girlietoo
Member
Member # 38719
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Perhaps I missed it but why did you insist she call your children to confess to them? From what I read it sounded like some sort of punishment.


Me- 40
Him- 47
March 9, 2013- the day my heart died

Posts: 247 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
nuance
Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Girlietoo - he said that she should tell the kids so they would know what to expect for the holidays. It wasn't necessarily punishment.

The fact that it looks like punishment is actually a plus. She should feel like she's being punished IMHO.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1209 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:15 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Sorry I haven't been back to respond but it has been something of a rat race around here today. I got really angry after my SIL told me about the marriage counselor and what she told my wife. At first I didn't believe it but after a while I got angrier and called my cheating wife (that is what I'm going to call her for the near future), Cheating wife or "CW" and told her to get her coat because I was going to pick her up and we were going to visit this MC person to find out if what CW said was true. So we went downtown, past all of the Christmas shoppers, families and Holiday decorations. she tried to hold my hand , but I shook her off and said "f*ck no, you don't deserve to hold my hand". We got there and the MC verified what my wife had said. I got angry and a little loud, so the MC, the Office manager and my CW went into the office and the Office Manager explained that she and the MC had discussed my CW's affair and her mental state and decided that , for the time being, my CW shouldn't disclose the affair, BUT this was only supposed to be temporarary, until they felt that my CW was emotionally strong enough to tell me the truth. It was my CW who got it wrong, which figures. My CW is smart even brilliant about facts and figures but when it comes to interpersonal communication , she doesn't always listen fully but, in her mind , she condenses everything down to the Cliff Notes version. If you know what I mean. The MC apologized (it seems that everybody is apologizing to me , these days) and asked if I wanted to start MC. My CW was all for that. But I said that I was unsure if I even wanted to try to reconcile, just yet.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I told my CW to tell me everything, every detail, every act, the complete story, and reminded her that the OM is scared sh*tless of me and what it will do to his family and business, so he will Narc her out if she lies, or his BW will. I told her that it had better be complete and if I even suspected a lie, it was over between us. I left and drove down the street and pulled into a gas station and I was shaking. Imagine me having to do this sort of thing. I never in a million years ever thought this could happen.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:30 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I've been doing a lot of thinking this evening, and have almost certainly decided that I don't want to reconcile. I may change my mind, but that's how it stands , right now. I will give her 1 month to prove that she is worth the kind of effort, and time, that will give me enough hope to try to make it work.
It's the oddest feeling I've ever experienced in my life. I THOUGHT I knew my wife, but it turns out that she isn't like the wife I married at all. My wife loved me, my wife respected me, and above all, my wife would never try to deceive me. this woman that I've been talking to isn't my wife at all. she is a stranger who has taken over my wife's body and replaced her soul with a vile , contemptible serpent. When we went to the MC., she couldn't even look me in the eye. My wife was a proud , self reliant person , not this begging , groveling creature. WHO IS THIS PERSON???????????????????

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 4:39 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

take a deep breath friend. your rage came pretty quickly, just like mine. But you don't have to make a decision now. As pained and outraged as you are, you have to remember you've been married to this woman for 27 years. she's the mother of your children.

yes, she did a fucked up thing. It's inexcusable. I'm pretty sure she's aware of it.

You may never get over this. for a lot of people an affair is a deal-breaker. This shouldn't be a surprise. Affairs kill marriages.

But don't rush to conclusions. i would wait at least 6 months before you make a decision.

And after you vent on her and she feels lower than shit. Ease up. Never strike her, even if you feel she deserves it. There have been times that she has treated you well. So treat her with mercy now. That doesn't mean you have to reconcile. It just means that you are a good person and recognize that she is a person who is hurting pretty badly now too.

when this shit happens, it's time to act with integrity and kindness (as soon as possible) and make a decision that is right for you.

Right now, there is no way for you to know what is right for you. You are too hurt. but you will eventually. And when you know it, you won't be angry anymore. Maybe just sad that things turned out a certain way. or maybe forgiving and grateful in the end, that you still have her.

A lot of BSs here do not have that choice. Their WSs are not remorseful and it shatters them. in this one small area, you are lucky.

Take your time. detach a little. work out. use this as an opportunity to be the person you can be proud of too.

Best of luck.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 4:42 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

also, you may wish to check out the "betrayed men's" thread in the I Can Relate forum. Only betrayed men can post there. I don't have the link, because I'm kind of clueless. but there's a lot of great guys there who post regularly. You will get great advice from men who have been there and are still there where you are now. it really is pretty therapeutic. they cut to the chase. no bullshit.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Hmmm. Are you absolutely positive it was his BW you talked to?

I find it..odd. As a BW, I very well remember the moment I found out WH cheated. I was a mess that day..I have been on SI for a few years..I think it's safe to say 99% of BW's are a mess on dday.

But his BW? She not only had the presence of mind to call you..she did so at your WW..the OW's..request.

Something doesn't add up.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7489 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I agree with mike7, give it a few months before making a final decision. She deserves that much after 27 years.

You need to find out just why she needed sex from another man; were they having an affair? was she emotionally involved? did he turn her on sexually?

Get her to write everything down in a letter or e-mail and send it to you; that way there is no emotional/hostile face to face confrontation and you can look at the bald facts.

I also agree with mike7 that you should lay off the humiliation. She is totally remorseful and degrading her in front of your children is a tad heartless. Show some compassion for her situation; she is acutely aware she has degraded her marriage and it will never be the same. Don't drive her over the edge; she may do something self-harmful or end up with a breakdown.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Bdell

Sending you great strength to get thru this mess and roller coaster ride thats only in the beginning.

You are with friends here....we can help you through this...come her often and continue to post often as you have.

Right now she is in her FOG...she will say anything to minimize... she couldnt look you in the eye because she is so embarassed at what she did... her actions are in conflict with her core values...this is normal for waywards once their affairs become known. Waywards never think about what to do after they get cought until after they get cought.

The decistion to stay or leave is up to you...however, many of us here will tell you not to make any hasty decision at this time...you can always file for "D".... take a little time to sort thru this mess.


Suggest reading the healing library here at SI (print articles for your WW to read also) 3 great books that helped many here...Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass, How to help your spouse heal from your affiar--Linda Macdonald and After the Affair--Janis Spring all avail on amazon.

Right now make sure to eat, exercize and stay hydrated. Do not give her all the info you have uncovered as they ask what you know..and will not say anything more (minimuze and TT)....Get into MC and IC for both of you. She needs to find out why she could do this...she is broken brother....

and when you ask WHY... if any part of her answer involves another person (most likely you) she is not on the right track and needs to dig deeper.

I send you strength friend....this is a horrible ride...that WE did not buy our own ticket for

I did not tell anyone...parents, friends, our daughter nobody knows...and i dont regret that choice today... everyone is different


me: 58
her WW- 57
7 yr LTA (PA & EA) with her former boss
one D-24 yrs old- former eating disorder now OCB
married 25 yrs
in "R" and its been roller-coaster
D-day 3-13-12
confronted 6 wks later (dropped 35# in those 6 wks and spent 2 days in the hospital with severe chest pains--thought I was having a heart attack)
I contacted AP's faithful wife outed their "A" (she knew nothing)and we both kept tabs on our waywards
True NO Contact- July 2012
Fog, denials, blame shifting, rub sweeping, TT selfish, stubborn...lots of mal-adapted coping skills, no boundaries...you name it and she did it but things are finally getting better very slowly
its a long road....and painful


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Thanks to everybody who has posted. It really, really helps, a lot. I'm pretty sure that it was the guy's wife I talked to, because she asked me some personal questions about her husband and said that she would like to meet me to talk about it. I think, and it's just my opinion, but from the way she talked, this sort of thing has happened before. She seemed much more concerned about protecting their business and kids than she was about protecting her husband. Both she and her husband seem to want to bend over backwards to tell me everything, if I don't do anything to their family. Apparently, after 9/11 they received a lot of threats and so are very nervous about this situation. Of course, I would never harm anybody, but they don't know that. Maybe this might be a way to get all of the info I need and to make sure that my CW is telling me the truth?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

As far as not humiliating my CW, I didn't tell her to tell the kids to humiliate her, but to gauge her sincerity and remorse. Although, frankly, I"m not particularly concerned about her feelings right now. If she doesn't like it , she can stay at her sister's forever. I'm also doubting our whole marriage life. How do I know this hasn't happened before? How do I know that my kids are mine, even? If she would cheat once, maybe she could cheat twice? Who knows?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Even if she only had one affair, what about the last 4 years of cheating and living a lie? She called me first thing this morning, and I asked her if I needed to get DNA tests on the kids. She swore that I didn't need to do it but if it would help me to be sure, she wouldn't object. I was not very pleasant about it. But she called herself much worse names than I would ever call her.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

She told me that she will tell me everything. Every thought she had, every minute they spent together, everything they did, every conversation they had as much as she can remember. She will gladly do IC or MC if I want her to, take as many lie detector tests as I want her to. Anything and everything to prove herself. She went on a long time with about a million promises of love and remorse. I told her to stop and repeated that she has 1 month to prove that she has told me everything, and she gets 0 do-overs. 1 single lie and we divorce. That is how it stands right now. I will say, that she hasn't used the kids, hasn't mentioned our former married life and hasn't excused herself of anything. She told me that it was all her fault.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I'm sorry everybody, I just keep rambling on, don't I? I wish I could get some rest and peace.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

A lot of BSs here do not have that choice. Their WSs are not remorseful and it shatters them. in this one small area, you are lucky.

What mike7 said, +1.

It sounds like your WW is very remorseful. Count that as a blessing my friend. The rage and anger is the same on the other side of the fence when they are not remorseful. At least right now, it seems she is willing to help you get past all this crap that she caused. It's pure hell when you catch them and they show no remorse and continue to lie. It makes you doubt yourself on top of everything else.

I tend to give credit where credit is due. And while I think what your WW did is horrible and inexcusable, right now she seems to be doing the right thing. Give her credit for that.

Finally, time will change your feelings. I know mine have. Right now, you have your own "rage fog" and are not thinking clearly. I would also encourage you to wait for awhile to make any decisions.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

So treat her with mercy now. That doesn't mean you have to reconcile. It just means that you are a good person and recognize that she is a person who is hurting pretty badly now too.

when this shit happens, it's time to act with integrity and kindness (as soon as possible) and make a decision that is right for you.

^^^this should be emphasized, considering your WW's response thus far.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Its astonishing how your wife obviously cares for you and the marriage very deeply yet she cheated on two occasions; spending a lot of time with the OM [two weekends].

Everything in life was going her way, world at her feet, truly blessed - and she goes and cheats. What was she thinking about? What possible excuse can she have for such stupidity? Truly inexplicable.

If you examine the frequency of female adultery in great marriages; marriages with no problems, great sex life, total harmony; [as you described], it has to less than 1% I can testify every female I know who has cheated was chock full of resentment or disillusionment. This makes your wife one very unusual woman.
Or were there any undisclosed resentments your wife used to justify her adultery? Something of a mystery you need to clear up.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

OK,
My W fits into your 1% then.
My W will tell you to this day she was very happy in our marriage. In fact it was perfect, so perfect she didnít deserve it. Fucked up I know. She felt she was not worthy of love and questioned everything good about her life. She was deeply in the rabbit hole and could spin any act of kindness into a negative. He only says he loves me because he has too. I know he bought me flowers but only because he has too. Any act of love can be swung around in the broken brain.
She truly had the ability to separate the two worlds and used one as an outlet for self-hate and destructive behaviors, the ones she deservedÖ.. This was all unbeknownst to everyone around her. She was the one who had it all together. Not so much. Now with a lot of hard work she has gone a long way to putting our M back together. She still goes to bi-weekly counseling and is a changed person within. She was worth giving the opportunity too. WE have a different marriage now, one forever marked by the scar she caused. But it is none the less good with the potential for great in the future if she continues the work.
You two can put this back together it can be done. I was right where you are twice. Once I divorced and one I decided to give her the chance. Both were very difficult, but the rewards for giving her an opportunity have been great. Take it one day one minute one second at a time and make it a high bar for her to clear, I did and she gets up every day with her jumping shoes on.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Nov 2010
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

You are definitely taking charge. From what you have posted your W seems to be willing to do whatever it takes. That is something not all BH get. Just saying. Be mindful of that and watch to ensure that it is kept up. Slip ups are bound to happen. Nobody is perfect. You already know this, but your W isn't either. Focus on the effort. I think the effort helped me as much as the effect does.

One thing that that helped me and my W was the 5 love languages. I know it is hard for some guys to get past the title, again, trust me. If will help you and your W understand what is needed to repair the damage.

I have to tell you that is kind of a rare thing, normally. However since there are an extra 4 year thrown in, it looks like your W determined she has, forgive the vulgarity, owned her shit. My W would have, had she had the skills.

This sucks, I know. Focus on short term right now. Keep your options open. Everyone's first reaction is usually to D. Give yourself permission to change your mind. Ask your W for what you need. I know it seems wrong, but you will get to a better place faster with her support. It takes a great man to endure this and you seem to be made of stern stuff.

As far as WW go, yours seems to be doing exactly what she needs to do. While it is hard a small acknowledgement on your W efforts can be good for you too.Live with integrity in all that you do. No matter the outcome you will have to live with yourself for a long time.

I am not pushing you in either direction. You have to give these things time. IC was a godsend for me and the effort my W put in made my decision to stick around logically easier. Emotionally it will never feel the same, if that makes sense. Logic is useful in times of crisis.

While the paternity question lingers, have that done. I did. The last thing you want is to have doubts. It helped me move beyond some of the hurt and just be their Dad. Lingering doubts have a way of doing that. It also provides a verification that your W is telling the truth.

One foot in front of the other, day by day is the only way to get through. Take care of yourself.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

"We got there and the MC verified what my wife had said. I got angry and a little loud, so the MC, the Office manager and my CW went into the office and the Office Manager explained that she and the MC had discussed my CW's affair and her mental state and decided that , for the time being, my CW shouldn't disclose the affair, BUT this was only supposed to be temporarary, until they felt that my CW was emotionally strong enough to tell me the truth. It was my CW who got it wrong, which figures."

Sounds to me like your WW and her IC are trying to cover their asses.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

bdell

you have carried yourself so well in such a short amount of time.

Please take care of yourself right now. Eat, drink water and try to sleep.

I know you are angry at her and you have every right to be but do not let yourself get carried away.

Do not make any long term decisions or a while until your emotions have settled down.

Your wife sounds remorseful. She is not lying. Did she make some terrible decisions? Hell yeah.

It is interesting that she only had one affair but it actually sounds like she sought professional help and realized what horrible decisions she has made.

Hopefully she will be able to help you understand why she did this (really sounds like it has nothing to do with you) and what boundaries she put in place so this never happens again.

HM


Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Don't make any decisions for 6 months? Are you kidding me? I don't know much , but I do know that I'm not waiting 6 months to decide if I divorce her or not. I have heard that the WS needs to make a timeline of the affair. Well, I have made a timeline too. She has 1 month to prove she is worth attempting reconciliation for. She has 1 opportunity to tell me every single detail of the affair, including WHY. In 6 months this marriage will either be over, or she will have been able to prove herself worthy of continuing it. I have busted my ass for her, for 27 years. Now she is going to bust her ass to prove she is the kind of woman I WANT to be married to. As far as I'm concerned, our marriage ended 4 years ago.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

WE have a little pottery figurine that we bought together when we were first dating. It's two little turtles with a heart in between them, that says "Always and forever". It is her most prized possession. She had it in the delivery room when Our kids were born. She TOLD me that she slept with it every night that I was working away. I slept with the stupid thing last night. I took it over to her sister's and put it in my CW's hands. I have never seen anybody sob like that in my life.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Are you kidding me? I don't know much , but I do know that I'm not waiting 6 months to decide if I divorce her or not.
^^^We have all been there - we have been this angry too...and just as wounded. But you have been married 27 years - it is worth 6 months to see where this goes.

again, like Mike said,

So treat her with mercy now...It just means that you are a good person and recognize that she is a person who is hurting pretty badly now too...when this shit happens, it's time to act with integrity and kindness (as soon as possible)...
^^^be careful of saying (or doing) things that YOU will regret in the future. You will need to find an outlet for your anger pronto.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

You are, rightfully, filled with rage right now. Filled with betrayal and disbelief, and your mind is going 100 places all at the same time. Up to this point, you have done incredibly well. Amazingly well in getting your WWs attention and outing this A.

This is very rare in a BS. You have seemed to grasp immediately the truth that you cannot love a WS back, you have to show them strength and be willing to lost the marriage for the possibility of saving it.

Your WWs A may indeed, be a deal-breaker for you. If it truly is, then no shame to you, no fault to you. Your WW made a choice to betray you and that choice, that decision, has consequences. And it very well may be that the consequences are that you divorce her. Iím glad that you saw a lawyer to find out what is likely to happen, should you pull that trigger. Knoweldge is power and you need to know as much as possible, not only about the A, but about the legal ramifications for you should you separate or divorce.

I would caution you. Do not let your rage, your justifiable rage, paint you into a corner. Please give yourself some time to process. I know that when Iím in a rage, I am a juggernut. Do Not Stand In Front Of Me or you WILL be run over. I have blinders on and I am willing to sacrifice everything I hold dear, if it gets in my way. Thatís come back to bite me in the ass on several occasions. Hold your WWs feet to the fire, but give yourself some time to process. Detach as much as you can, so that you can think as emotionlessle as possible. Make darn sure of what you want, in as much as possible. You may still decide to leave. She may not do what is necessary for you to stay. You may decide that youíre willing to try for R which is, in all honesty, hard work. But whatever you do do, please make sure that your decision is one that you are comfortable with living with and not made out of rage driving you. Try to think with your head, not your heart. Because your heart is, understandable, torn into shreds right now.

Come back often for support or to blow off steam. We''re all here for you.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4857 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:19 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I have made at least one decision, to move ahead with the divorce process. It will take a couple of months even to be ready to file, so she has actually more than a month to prove herself. I don't know how long it will take to file, perhaps even longer. I have told my lawyer to do all of the work necessary up to the point of serving her papers. I will give him the go ahead to do so , or to stop the process, at that time. I need to do this , for my own self respect, and to insure that my kids are provided for, if worse comes to worst. I haven't made up my mind , yet about the DNA testing. I'm pretty sure that this is the only affair she has had, but I was ignorant about it, so I may be ignorant about any other past affairs, as well. It really won't make any difference to me, because I love my kids regardless. I had a very pleasant conversation with my sister in law, today. She is fully behind me in anything I decide, is disgusted by CW's behavior, but , after all they are Sisters, so she must be supportive of her. She also told me that my CW hasn't slept a wink , has been vomiting, and calls herself nasty names, and berates herself. SIL worries that she might be headed for a breakdown. I told her to keep me in the loop, and to watch over my CW .

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Bdell, your wife sounds remorseful. If her cheating isn't an immediate deal-breaker for you, then give her a chance to redeem herself. Maintain your boundaries, but don't be intentionally cruel to her.

She offered to take a poly, and if I were you, I would take her up on that.


A couple of people have mentioned , and you haven't said anything else about it.....but do you not find it odd that the owner of that B&B immediately knew who you were talking about? It seems TOTALLY odd that the manager/owner guy would remember ONE cash transaction that happened 4 years ago, doesn't it? Or remember the 2-time customer at all, even after seeing a picture. He has most likely had hundreds/thousands of guests since then, and 4 years is a very long time to retain *recall* of one random person......I'm not making any assumptions about what it means, it just seems really strange to me.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 11:37 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8031 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
PhoenixReborn
Member
Member # 22135
Default  Posted: 1:20 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Hi,

I second Gonnabe with the observation about the B&B guy remembering your WW.

I suggest the possibility of asking the B&B manager when was the LAST (latest) time he saw your WW.
And prepare for an answer of only recently.

I hate to suggest it, but he would be more likely to remember a regular customer (even only sporadically) than a one off from 4 years ago.
Consider this:
Do you remember who served you at the McDonalds (or another shop) in May 4 years ago?

Book a polygraph... And offer a grace period for any new information, and definitely consider one poly question as: "Are the any other affairs in the past whilst married to (you)."

Be prepared for a possible further confession once she realises the poly is actually booked and happening.

Also as others have said, make sure big decisions are finalised only when you have processed things with a calmer mind to be sure.

Good luck.


Me - XBF 40 (Fiance)
Her - XWF (who cares)
# Always trust your Gut - I didn't and am now regretting it. #
-Only give up when you won't regret giving up.-

Posts: 1118 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Australia
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Actually, I did mention it. The B & B owner remembered that the "husband" was Middle Eastern or Indian ( in fact, Pakistani) because he gets very few interracial couples. He recognized my CW but didn't, at first , believe I was the husband. for obvious reasons. I am not Middle Eastern.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 2:19 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Dude. Are you purposefully ignoring what more than one of us is saying?
You show up at the B&B and the manager/owner seems to have perfect recall of a person who was there once or twice, 4 years ago? It is my impression that when you went to the B&B, you had no idea that your WW's AP was Middle Eastern/Indian.....so YOU weren't the one who *jogged* the guy's memory by saying "white woman/middle eastern guy, 'member them?" And even if he did remember her *face*, unless you have some really strange name...he most likely wouldn't remember the name of a 2-time customer from 4 years ago.

I told you. I don't know what the hell to make of it......I just said that it seems strange for him to remember so many details about a person who checked in there once or twice, 4 years ago.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8031 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:03 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

This is the sequence of what happened. I found the check written to the B & B. I went there and asked if my wife had stayed there and showed him her picture. He recognized her right away, and said, she and her "husband" had stayed there a couple of times, a few years ago. But only after I had convinced him that I was her real husband. He, at first, didn't believe I was her husband, saying that he was an Arab.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:12 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

He didn't remember their names at all , until he looked at the check stub, and I showed him my ID. You would remember my wife , if you ever saw her.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:18 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I don't really think that they stayed there more than two weekends, but what difference does that really make? Except, I guess to verify her timeline.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I talked to my CW this morning and she confessed that, in fact, they did have sex that first weekend, as a lot of you were telling me. Not the first night, but the second. Which , to my mind, means the first night as well. She said that they first met in Sept. and he is one of her clients. They had no personal contact until November, and no romantic contact until December. Whatever the hell that means. She promised me that she would have the written "blow by blow" of the affair today.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Both CW and my SIL asked if we could still have Christmas for her side of the family, because of her mother's illness. It might be her last. I agreed to this. My MIL is a super nice Lady, and I wouldn't ever want to cause her distress. I agreed that everybody would say nothing to her about the affair. My kids are on board with this. So far, the only people who know of the affair is me, my CW, the OM and his wife, my SIl and her husband, my kids, my wife's counselor and her supervisor and the owner of the B & B, who can be discounted.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

According to you SIL your wife may be heading for a breakdown, all that vomiting etc. Aren't you concerned that being filed with divorce papers may push her over the edge so as to speak? Honestly I would hold off filing given your WW's emotional state; serving her with papers tells her she has lost you and her marriage and that may be too much to take. You sound a very strong person; don't assume that other people close to you have that same strength.

She is going to tell the truth; get it in writing and reflect on what actually happened before you make any further decisions. Certainly a little more time will help moderate your anger and outrage.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

OK now, I have no intention of serving her with papers, just yet, for this very reason and others. All my lawyer is going to do is draw up the documents and hold them until I give him the go ahead.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I just got off the phone with the Manager of the office of my CW's counselor. My CW called her and asked if I could be given her treatment records. My wife has said that she will sign a release and personally give them to me and that she wants her counselor to tell me everything they have discussed. Is this possible? Can they do that? My lawyer is out of the office so I can't ask him. I'm very interested in this. As much for the fact that my wife thought about it and I didn't. She gave me the names and numbers of lie detector places, I don't know what the technical term is.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Thats true remorse! Impressive start by your wife.

I think if your WW signs a release and a statement that the IC is not held responsible for the outcome, you may be able to get these records. Worth investigating.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Man, if I were you, I would kiss my lucky stars that she is this remorseful and is willing to help you get over this mess. I know you're mad/hurt, I've been there. But, I wish my WW was even 1/10th as remorseful as yours seems to be.

As far as the WS being remorseful, this almost seems to good to be true. She deserves credit for that.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

My wife has said that she will sign a release and personally give them to me and that she wants her counselor to tell me everything they have discussed. Is this possible? Can they do that?
Yes, they most certainly can do that precisely because your WW gave them permission. The laws protecting those treatment records are about unauthorized disclosure. You can choose to share the records with whoever you want to and she is choosing to share them with you.

It is up the healthcare provider (i.e. counselor) to ensure they have the permission properly documented otherwise they are liable for any issues that arise as well.

I would say this is a big step. I don't recall too many time when a BS reported that their WS actually followed through and gave unfettered access to their counseling history like this.

I also have to say that the manager of the B&B concerns me. I agree with gonna. It sounds really off. I get that you showed the manager a picture of your WW and the picture was recognized, not the name. But to remember them as a couple from just two visits four years ago???

Think about that. The manager, from what you described, didn't just vaguely remember your WW as a customer. They were remembered...as a couple.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3872 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Long Gone
Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

yeah.....I'm not accepting the B&B dude. Something isnt right.....unless this guy is Rainman....I don't see it.


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 767 | Registered: Jun 2011
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I wish my fWW was as remorseful as your WW.

I never even got an appology.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Guys, I'm Ok with the B&B guy. If you knew my wife, you would understand why. Without getting too personal, she is a very attractive woman and has some anatomical features that most men, unless gay, would remember. Also, in Central Indiana, interracial couples are pretty rare, except in the big cities, so 2 weekends, over 2 months = 4 nights, and the bill was $300.00 or so each weekend and the second weekend the Dude paid with cash. I actually believe this part pretty much. Now, I don't want to defend her, and won't, but I have to go with the info I've got. If I find out different, then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

re: B&B guy. I guess the most important part is that he gave you confirmation that she had been there with a man who wasn't you.

If the counselor won't release the records to you, even with your CW's consent, then your CW can request a copy for herself and give those to you.
No problems there......

At this point in time, your situation sounds very *fixable.* That's encouraging.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8031 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

6 months is a guideline not a rule. It is your life and only you know what is best for you. At this stage no amount of remorse on your Ws part is going to have any effect. I used to call it betrayal blindness. Anything she does will not register with you right now. It is normal and happens a lot. That is why I say to watch the effort.

The truth is that anytime someone cheats on their partner they deserve to get a D. Add in the lies to cover it up over a long period of time and it is next to impossible to forgive or reconcile. I am just reminding you that I did and I was not half as lucid as you seem to be right. It is just one of many possible paths.

For me D was my first response. Had my kids not been young I probably would have gone through with it and be D today. It gave me a pause, a chance to evaluate it again. I realized that I could D any time, even years later and once D it was for the rest of my life. If you have a rage free moment read some of the positive reconciliation stories out in recon section. I am not trying to push you that way, but just to make sure to consider all options available to you.

Having the lawyer draw up the D papers is a good move. FWIW I did the same. I never filed or served my W, but they are still with my attorney if I need them. I tried to keep that secret from my W, but she found out. In hindsight it was a rookie move, sending legal documents to my house that I was going to be moving out of. In my defense I was not in the best frame of mind.

Do the polygraph if you can afford it. If you are looking for ways to feel more confident your W isn't still lying to you. If you are confidently moving to D I wouldn't spend the money though. It is only useful for your own piece of mind. In court it doesn't do you much good.

The DNA thing is highly personal. I get the love for your kids won't change. I was suggesting it more of way to verify that your W was telling you the truth.

The thing that helped me a lot was reading online. I couldn't sleep anyway, so I spent many a night researching everything. It gives you a small purpose when it feels like you have none. Knowledge is power.

Small steps. Take care of your body. Keep your chin up. Again be careful about info fed to you by your SIL. If you want to know how your W is doing, send her a text or an email. Don't use an intermediary. While other people are impacted, this is between you and your W. No one else is invested as much as the two of you and no one else gets a vote.

As far as Xmas goes. I had a similar situation. I kept it together, but my W couldn't. It created a lot of extra questions and drama in our families. Luckily we had an excuse ready (my W battling Depression). Just a tip, have an excuse ready.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)

At this point in time, your situation sounds very *fixable.* That's encouraging.

I agree, keep verifying and getting the affair in the light of day. Once you know it all that is when you can make an informed choice to go or stay.
I had 2 wives cheat on me. One was an unremorseful monster and D was a very hard process and took me about 4 years to get through and emotionally recover from. My second is a remorseful partner. She did TT and have issues for several months however. What your wife is doing is sending me a message. She has followed this counselorís advice but has always wanted to tell you and open this up so she could also move past this. My guess is she has been carrying this around as unwanted baggage. if not she would be holding dear to everything and minimizing, blame shifting and not giving you open and transparent looks into her. The counselor thing speaks volumes. My wife did the same and he still talks to me about what they are working on and figuring out, Itís part of my deal to stay.
I will say this. I gave myself 6 months, she responded late and we are on solid footing. In fact the affair is a minor thing now the pre-affair marriage issues bother me more. My W was worth staying for. I can say that today. You might find the same.
Focus on what you need now. Grieve, get angry. Continue with D process but give yourself and your W the chance to prove she is worth it.
LHAP?


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Nov 2010
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Bdell, very sorry you are in this situation. Like you I found out about my WW affair later(much later 30+ years). Also like you my wife has shown sincere remorse. I found out almost a year ago, and I still cannot get it out of my mind.

You are receiving excellent comments and suggestions from people who don't know you, or your wife but they do have the experience of being where you are now.

I also see you are defensive of other posters reference to the B&B. That is partially a defense mechanism that when we find out about our wife affairs, first we can hardly believe it is true. We certainly do not want to believe there was many more, or it went on for a very long time. He recalls the name of a woman he saw 2-4 times. Although he has probably seen thousands since. Your wife could look like Norma Jean, I'd still challenge his detail of recollection, and his willingness to share with you.

My question on this is, why would she pay for the first week-end? It points to the possibility that your wife made the original arrangements at the B&B? This dirty week-end was planned in advance, knowing the anticipated outcome and knowing the risk this placed upon her relationship with you.

The AP paid for the re-run of the first dirty week-end. The first one probably went well where your wife wanted a return week-end behind your back. This again had to be planned in advance and cannot be called a fling.

You know, she has already lied to you about the first week-end having sex, that is normal. You don't believe her about the first night. I suggest there were physical boundaries broken between them in the months before the B&B dirty week-end. These are adults, not high school kids.

Another point I would like to add is this B&B dirty week-end took place extremely close to your own anniversary vacation. Your WW showed no signs of remorse/guilt to you during that time.

I completely agree with you on the DNA tests, I wouldn't ask that of my kids (they are mid to late 20's). I am the only Dad they have known. If a DNA test determined someone else was the biological father, that opens a second wound where the AP would have access to your family and his child. I would not put mine through that.

As others say, get the poly for your own piece of mind, you cannot forgive if you don't know the extent of her activities outside the vows of your marriage. We are simply guessing using the information you have provided.

I commend you on your strength, although you are in a turmoil underneath, you appear quite focused. Know that your emotions will roller coaster, anger love, hate, frustration, hurt and pain. Whether you decide to reconcile, or to break apart - it will require all your strength and support from family and friends.

You may forgive your WW, but like me you will never forget what she has done to you, and your kids.


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I had not thought of the point that she probably made the original arrangements, so I called her and asked and she told me that she did. She asked me to come over and gave me her timeline. I told her that I wanted both the DNA test and the Polygraph ( I remembered the word) and she agreed, and then told me, in front of my SIL and BIL that it was all her fault and she didn't blame me for anything. She asked that I consider giving her the chance to prove her love, that right after I came home from my job, she was out of her mind with guilt, which is why she went to the therapist/counselor, in the first place. When the counselor told her to not confess but be the best wife she could be, she also told her that telling me would be selfish and she should "bear her burden". She felt validated for not telling me and as time went on, and things between us were so good that she didn't want to rock the boat.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Bdell,
You have to make your own choices regarding R. Those of us BS on SI whose WS was never even slightly remorseful, and there are quite a few of us, have been encouraging because we know the pain you''re feeling. However, we also know how much harder healing was because of the lack of remorse and most,if not all, of us would have loved to have a WS as remorseful as yours appears to be. Even if things don''t work out it''s still very helpful in terms of recovering for yourself.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3872 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

One thing she said, " I don't deserve your love, but I want you to know that I will always be yours and die before I will ever do anything like this again". Then, " You can throw me away, if you want to, but I will always come crawling back". Also, "She doesn't believe that she deserves another chance, but prays for one." She handed me her phone and PC with all of her passwords written down. I told her to tell her Pastor what had happened and she said that she would have him call me to prove she did so. I

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I have been on the phone to both the guy and to the manager of the counseling office. The guy verified her timeline. She said in her letter that they didn't have full sex the first night, but did everything but, Kissed, touched and the like. They had sex, just regular sex, twice the second night. They had a "make out session" in his car, in late January, though. Which she had not told me about before. She said that it was too cold to do anything else and that he suggested the B & B, but he couldn't get away to make the arrangement so she did. The next month, they had sex once, Friday night, twice Saturday and Sunday morning they agreed to end it. They called each other a few times in April and early May, mainly to ask each other how they were doing. Both his and her explanations agree and are supported by the phone records. Calls to and from the guys # tapered off pretty dramatically after the March weekend. Both of them said that they used protection the first weekend , but not the second weekend. There was no oral sex or anything kinky as Muslims consider such things unclean. I'm tempted to believe some of this, because my wife said that she would have done it if he had asked.
Can you f**king imagine this!!!!!! Okay, so what if she is telling me the complete truth. SO FUCKING WHAT? I can't believe that I'm having to do this and ask these kinds o f questions to my own fucking wife?????!!!!!! I'm trying as hard as I can to not let my disgust show, but when she was telling me this today, my expression must have been pretty awful, because she stopped talking and put her head down aand cried for a while. she kept repeating that she was so sorry and forgive her and I love you. It's enough to drive a person fucking crazy.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I am doing the best I can. What I want is to curl up in the fetal position with a bottle of whisky and drink myself unconscious. I can only take being around her so long and hearing so muc , that I have to get away I have a hunting cabin up north, maybe I will go up and try to get it together by myself for a couple of days.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

But no, I can't do that because my slut wife might fuck a football team while I 'm gone.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

You might as well go.
You've already put her out of your house and have told her your talking divorce.

Nows the chance to reallky test her.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Bdell,
Now you have more of the truth, it wrenches your gut as your denial subsides and reality sinks in.

All I can say is, for me I decided that my WW made some very stupid decisions that I can never forget. I will try to forgive, but the marriage is scarred forever. She shows me every day how much she loves me, but the mind games, the mind videos and the self humiliation of this is really hard.

I am toughing it out, after almost one year it still hurts.

I wish you well, and continued strength to get through this. She made her decisions, the decision to remain or break the marriage is yours. Take some time out to completely assess your situation.

good luck


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Gently, Bdell, it sounds to me as if your wife is a pretty amazing woman who is human, flawed and at times weak and made a series of awful choices that she quickly regretted and is sincerely remorseful for.

This may have been mentioned, but she may have been trying to avoid this path when she called that December and begged to come be with you. My H was also married to an awesome spouse, but due to his various issues he fell very carelessly into a meaningless LTA and didn't stop until caught. I sure wish I had what you have!

I actually feel pity for both of you. Please remember that none of us is perfect and all we can do once we have messed up horribly is try to repair the damage and vow never to do it again. Your W is doing both, to a degree quite rare here at SI.

Best of luck; believe me I understand your pain, and also your hurt pride. But I suspect the woman you married is still there and worth it.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

So far you have found out what she did. Now, just as importantly you need to find out why.

Don't accept 'I don't know' 'I can't explain' etc. etc. One condition of you agreeing to reconcile should be a clear explanation of why she committed adultery. If she won't explain then she should remain at her sisters until her memory improves.

Look, your marriage was good, there was absolutely no excuse for what she did. There has to be some pretty unique reason for cheating numerous times without protection and you deserve to know about it.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Just another guy here to tell you that it sucks being here, but glad that you found us.

You have handled yourself extremely well, given the atom bomb that was dropped on your life. And I will echo the others that say no matter how much we tell you that your wife is currently doing the right things, it is hard to *appreciate* it at the moment.

Look---for what it is worth, take your time to decide what you want. Your wife has already claimed several times that she will wait for you until the end of time, so it really is up to you where you want to go from here. The problem is, your head is spinning in circles. You can't believe that the one you loved and trusted completely stabbed you in the back. Where the hell do you go from here???

The sad truth is---there is no easy way out. This shit called infidelity is a process, and it takes time to work through. And you will come through this, but with some scars. It will be the forever reminder of what was.

But it gets better. Her remorse helps...a lot more than you may realize at this point. True, she is the one who put you in this hell, but she can help you get out faster than many others on this site. Believe us when we say that her remorse and actions are far, far more than most waywards after discovery.

Give it time---what else have you got?

Good luck, friend. Sorry that you are here.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
whatlysbeneath
Member
Member # 32665
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Bdell,

I am 3.5 years out and rarely post on S I but something in your experience compels me to add some thoughts.

You really are managing this horrible nightmare pretty well,however, I read the entire thread and noticed some areas of particular concern.

More than once you have mentioned using alcohol to deal with this pain...please be careful and don't add the consequences of alcohol use to your misery...alcohol solves nothing.

Your wife is being remarkably transparent/honest. You will find as you read more about infidelity that it is the waywards lies and lack of remorse that usually end most marriages not the cheating.

Adultery is a legitimate "deal breaker" for many and no one could acuse you of doing anything wrong if you end the marriage now.

Your world and life as you know it is forever changed!

You are searching for the "right" decision....trust me...there is NO completely right decision that you can make here.

Two basic choices. Stay married and work on forgiveness and rebuilding trust with the one person you just knew could never betray you or divorce.

You do sound like you are on the divorce fast track.

Let's think about the real consequences of divorce.

If you divorce you will forever lose the woman you have loved and shared life and children with.

How will seeing her with a new husband affect you?

It may be tempting to think that you can find another that will not cheat...maybe...but what other baggage will someone else bring into a relationship?

She will not be perfect and neither are you.

You said you and your wife had a great sex life...so it's not realistic that you will remain alone.

You sound like a great man that was happy in a committed relationship...proud of the marriage you thought you had...I've been there...thought that.

A great man...not a perfect one.

My advice.

Think of any event in your life where a parent, teacher, friend, boss, child, sibling, forgave you for a bad choice you made and gave you a second chance. None of us are perfect...we may not have committed adultry but we have made other bad choices and we were all given second chances.

Thinking about this may allow some hope that you could someday forgive your wife.

Please don't do/say anything that will close the door on the possibility of reconciling...leave this door open until YOU decide to close it. Close this door only AFTER the emotions have settled enough for clarity however long that takes.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together 18 years
M 17
D day 2010
4 young children
Every secret in a marriage is a lie...I'm tired of being lied too.

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Mayberry to Hell to Limboville
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

i think you've done really well Bdell. Your story seems very similar to mine. My wife had immediate, humble remorse as well. But here is the problem, you now have two choices that you don't want. Either you divorce someone you probably still love, or you stay married to someone you can't stand, with all the memories and thoughts of her planning, and looking forward to, and fucking another guy. "she would have given him oral if he asked." That's a tough pill to swallow isn't it? To think the woman that was yours and yours only was willing to do anything for another man.

And those words of how she will never cheat again until she dies, and will always come crawling back, as you know, those are just words. You now know that she's capable of quite easily lying to you. You may remind her of that.

And I can't advise you anymore, because I don't know what to do from here either. Some days I think to myself that I love her and should just get over it. It's just sex after all. She wants ME! It's obvious that I'm the prize, blah, blah...

And then I think to myself that I will never again have what I had, my marriage is forever changed and screwed up. And I think, wouldn't it be nice to be free? I have money. Maybe I could travel to Italy, hang out by the beach. Maybe I could meet someone new? Someone that hasn't betrayed me. My marriage was just a chapter in my life. A good chapter. But just a chapter. And maybe now I'm ready for someone new. She had that "new love" feeling. Maybe it would be nice for me to have it too?

So, I don't know how to advise except to say, don't rush. Your frame of mind has already changed twice in a week. give it as much time as you possibly can. You will know when you can't give it anymore time. And then you make your decision. I wish you peace and happiness with whatever you decide.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I talked to my best bud, today and told him and his wife about all that had happened. They are our closest friends and we have done a lot together over the course of our married life, so they know us and we know them pretty well. I HAD to talk to somebody I could trust, I HAD to.
After telling them the horrible news, they both reminded me of what was going on during the time of my CW's affair. It gives me a lot of insight into the "why" of it. They didn't sugar coat it but told me straight out as only true friends will do.
At the time of her affair, there was a lot of things on both our plates. First there was my job, which forced our marriage into an LDR. There was her father's Cancer , which he died from, in June. His illness was long and she bore the brunt of it , because I was not there to help. Our youngest had , that fall, gone off to college, so she was alone in the house. My wife doesn't make friends easily, so when my Best Friend and his wife moved out into the country, she was basically left with her sister, who worked nights and nobody else. I knew all of this, back then, but she always told me that she was OK . I worried about her constantly. I called her every day, and like I said we met at least once a month for a long weekend. Catlover50 has a good point. When I left in December, it seemed like she would lose her grip. She cried and begged to come with me, but after she calmed down we knew we couldn't afford to be a one income family. so she stayed. Was this a cry of desperation? I know that none of this excuses cheating, but I am trying to look at it from her POV. She was alone, in a LDR, her Father is very ill, with an emptynest/home and few people to confide in or just have some fun with. I've been lonely and I know what it can do to a person, especially with death and sadness around. This hits me really hard.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

My Bud's wife said that she knew something was wrong, because she and my wife usually talk every day or so , and around the end of February and early March, my wife didn't call her much at all.
They also told me something interesting about themselves, they had some troubles early on in their marriage and both had brief affairs. This was several years ago . It looked for a while like they would divorce, but they stayed together and until today I never knew. They have invited my wife to stay with them in the country, and get away from any depressing situations, and rebuild her self esteem and strength. I think this is a great idea. I actually felt better today, just seeing them. WE Went to my SIL's and my wife and his wife talked and cried for a long time, and My Bud and I went and had a few beers and talked. Afterwards, my Buddy's wife said to me, that I had no idea how much she (my wife) hated what she had done and how much she loved me. She said that what my wife had done was try to escape.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
PhoenixReborn
Member
Member # 22135
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

Bdell,

Based on what your buddies wife has said, especially given their experienced perspectives, and all of the positive actions and steps taken by your WW, it seems like you are in a relatively enviable position compared to others on SI.

I think if you were to keep doing what you need done (poly, DNA etc) to confirm things, but with an open mind to R and letting your WW atone, it really does look positive from what I have read on here.

You have nothing to lose from giving your WW a chance.
You are under no pressure to define a hard date for when a decision must be made either, you could simply decide to reassess whether you are ready to make a decision or hold off a decision until you feel you are sure..

I suggest you go to the cabin if you need to, if your WW does do something bad, then it just makes your decision easier after all.
Although I doubt it, and besides, her sister, your kids and friends are all aware and have agreed to keep you in the loop, so there are many eyes on her while you would be away too.

Good luck...


Me - XBF 40 (Fiance)
Her - XWF (who cares)
# Always trust your Gut - I didn't and am now regretting it. #
-Only give up when you won't regret giving up.-

Posts: 1118 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Australia
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 5:44 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

Bdell

I would like to impart one thing someone on SI told me when I was in your same position.
and the difference was my WW was not remorseful at all in the beginning.

We had a daughter that was going thru a 4 yr eating disorder..WW also had no friends, we had cancer and deaths of close family at the same time..

ok...with all this going on, I didnt chose infidelity as a way of coping and WW did.

What I was told by a good friend on SI was

"Good People make bad decisions"

This helped me tremendously. Maybe this is not for you, but i certainly helped me.

Sending you strength...friend...

me: 58
her WW- 57
7 yr LTA (PA & EA) with her former boss
one D-24 yrs old- former eating disorder now OCB
married 25 yrs
in "R" and its been roller-coaster
D-day 3-13-12
confronted 6 wks later (dropped 35# in those 6 wks and spent 2 days in the hospital with severe chest pains--thought I was having a heart attack)
I contacted AP's faithful wife outed their "A" (she knew nothing)and we both kept tabs on our waywards
True NO Contact- July 2012
Fog, denials, blame shifting, rub sweeping, TT selfish, stubborn...lots of mal-adapted coping skills, no boundaries...you name it and she did it but things are finally getting better very slowly
its a long road....and painful


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

Various surveys have indicated that about 90% of women who cheat have a strong resentment against the BH.

Resentment - affair justification - green light to cheat

Your wife was alone she may have felt abandoned by you; as if you had left her with all these troubles and you wouldn't allow her to join you in her workplace; left her to cope with her fathers terminal illness. Sure you can logically argue that all the above were unavoidable, but emotion and logic are uneasy bedfellows.

Her affair lasted nearly two months with numerous sexual contacts and unprotected sex, which is a very special intimacy. I would not be surprised if her adultery was driven by resentment against you, however unfair that may seem.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

Our kids are coming home for the holidays tomorrow. What am I going to do? They have been at my parents this last week , while I investigated the affair. I didn't tell my Mom and Dad yet, just that we were having some problems. When my Mom finds out, she will go ballistic. She is extremely religious, and super protective of her "brood". If I do decide to try reconciliation, she will not be a big help. Dad will have to control her temper. He's the only one who can. As an afterthought, maybe I should tell him and let him break it to Mom. Either way, she is going to savage my wife, verbally, and now is not the time for that. My daughter has already been very disrespectful to her mom. This just keeps getting better and better.
I don't know what to do about all of this. With the Holidays coming up just seems to make everything more urgent and immediate. I think that having my wife go to my Buddy's is a great idea, but I don't want her to intrude on his family's Christmas. If she stays at my SIL's over the Holidays, that will cause a lot of drama. So......I told her she could come home, TEMPORARILY, for the holiday week. After New Years , I will make other plans.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

What I really want to do is chuck all of this and join the French Foreign Legion.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

Bdell,
If I can offer a suggestion for you regarding the holidays.

Try to have a normal Christmas for the sake of the kids. You have already told them, so a discussion about trying to work together to get through this, with no promises of the outcome. This has really come about so recently to you, time is needed to sort out your rocked world. Perhaps to explain how much pain this has caused you, and how much grief your WW is experiencing having now realized the enormous hurt to you, your kids and to her own self respect. I am sure your WW has been an excellent mother, remind the kids that this is not a time to gang up on her. That showing her disrespect will do more harm, she needs compassion as she hurts too.

You will be in a better place with your family around you, your emotions will still roll up and down. You will be amazed at how much you really do appreciate the support your own family at this time.

As to your parents, either tell your Dad in privacy and ask him if he can keep it to himself until after the holidays. That way he will understand what you and your family is going through, and he will be available to field some of your thoughts. Or tell him following the holidays with the explanation that you didn't want to spoil this Christmas season for them.

I am quite amazed at how well you are handling this, good luck.

I hope this helps,


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

There was yet another thing, I needed to do. I was looking on the "wayward" section and there is a thread about possessions that the AP might have given the WW. It struck a nerve, so I asked my wife if she had anything from him. She said no and that she threw away any clothes she wore during the A . I then asked her if , during the A, she wore her wedding ring, and she said yes. I asked for it back , but she begged to keep it. I took it anyway. I told her that if I decide to give her another chance and if she proves herself worthy, I will buy her another.
On a more positive note, I thanked her for thinking about the Counseling records. The office manager and the counselor and my wife and I will sit down after Christmas and review everything that is in them and my wife will get a copy, plus the office manager has said that she, herself, will be my wife's new counselor. She has had experience in her personal life with infidelity and believes in complete honesty. I want to say that she ( the office manager) has been extremely understanding and helpful, from day one. I also said to my wife that I talked to the kids last night and told them that I would not tolerate any more disrespect being shown to her. We will sit down tomorrow after they get home and I will set the conditions for Christmas behavior, both at our house and at my SIL's. That should be fun.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

I would like to say that since last week, I have been very fortunate to have so many people , who have given me a ton of support and help. My Buddy and his lovely wife, my kids, The Office Manager at the Therapist/Counselor's office, my SIL and her husband, even the owner of the B&B and the poor wife of the OM. All have helped me through the most difficult week of my life. Even my service in Iraq was not this tough. But I especially thank all of those posters who have taken time to give me encouragement and advice. You all have my deepest gratitude.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

Bdell I have said this before and others have said it too.

You are doing really well. You are making good logical decisions. I just want to point out that not everyone can do that at this stage. You should be very proud of that. No one can doubt your resolve and character.

Keep your character and integrity intact. Especially when it comes to coping. You have to lets this hurt sink in. Once you do it starts to go away little by little.

Find 10 minutes a day to reflect, be angry or distract yourself. schedule it. Do what you need to. Knowing it is coming up will help you each day. My IC suggested it to me, I though he was crazy, but it works.

Your W approach is good. That helps sometimes. Just be mindful that she is doing it now and probably still going off of her script or plan she thought about over the past 4 years. If she starts to waver, call her on it. Actions have consequences there is no avoiding that.

Most of what everybody tells you on SI comes from their own personal backgrounds so remind yourself to take all advice with a grain of salt too (mine included).


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
whatlysbeneath
Member
Member # 32665
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, December 19th (Thursday)

Bdell,

Sounds like you have a great network of people in place to help you get through this mess.

I have had friends and family that were very helpful both early on and to this day.

S I has been the single best resource for me to learn, understand, and process all the different types of pain infidelity brings.

You mentioned in a post that you were going to require that your wife confess to her pastor. What was the result?

Faith has been essential to my healing and hopefully it can be very helpful to your wife and family. I understand that people may be wary of faith in your situation in light of the fact that your wife attended and worked in her church regularly before during and after her affair. My wife attended regularly as well...it took some time but the churches unequivical position on adultery has helped.

I also loved the reference to joining the French Forgein Legion...use your sense of humour as often as you can, it helps.

Allowing everyone to be together with clear rules of conduct is also a very good idea.

Broke my heart for you both when I read your post about taking your wifes wedding ring. I hope she understands that it represents the old marriage that is now over and that if you stay and offer her the gift of reconciliation a new ring will represent a new beginning and a new marriage.

You have come a LONG way in a VERY short time...but you may still be in crisis mode.

Be prepared for a possible emotional "crash" when the emotions settle.

You are doing great...hang in there...we care and are hoping for the best.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together 18 years
M 17
D day 2010
4 young children
Every secret in a marriage is a lie...I'm tired of being lied too.

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Mayberry to Hell to Limboville
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, December 19th (Thursday)

Her Pastor said basically that it was up to me to do what I felt was best. That she was welcome in the Church but that she must atone to me.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, December 19th (Thursday)

^^^ It''s when you''re at your lowest, that you need the solace of your church. After all, it wasn''t the righteous that the lord dwelt with. It was with those in need of him.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4857 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, December 19th (Thursday)

I would not tell your parents. This is between you and your wife and enough people already know, which I think you will regret. Why do you feel the need to tell them?

Posts: 1417 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, December 19th (Thursday)

Because I have to tell them something and it should be the truth.. Perhaps your family isn't , but ours is very close knit and they already know that something is wrong, and I'm not going to lie for my cheating wife.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, December 19th (Thursday)

My family is extremely close also but I don't think there is a need to tell parents when it will just bring about future pain and with your mother that sounds like the case. If you decide to divorce, then of course they should know. But, I feel this is going to make any reconciliation much harder for you two, if you decide to go that route.

Just my opinion and you sure don't have to agree. Take care.


Posts: 1417 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, December 19th (Thursday)

Because I have to tell them something and it should be the truth

Dude. Be careful with this.

A simple "We're dealing with some things right now, sorry if things seem weird" is perfectly acceptable and it's the truth. I really don't think that now is the time to tell your mom. You totally don't need this, and right now, neither does your CW:

When my Mom finds out, she will go ballistic. She is extremely religious, and super protective of her "brood". If I do decide to try reconciliation, she will not be a big help.[] she is going to savage my wife, verbally, and now is not the time for that.

Quite frankly, your marriage is none of their business unless you choose to make it so.....even if you are a close-knit family. It's not as if you need to tell because you need support. You seem to have that handled. It seems that you'd be telling *just to tell*, kwim? Don't punish your CW by proxy.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8031 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:55 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Sorry Cissi and Gonnabe2016, but I disagree. I will stretch a point and wait until after the Holidays, but There is to be NO, zero, zilch, nada, secrecy and deception, from this day on, in the Bdell family. Transparency and honesty are the policy from now on.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:58 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Gonnabe2016, Let me ask you this, Why SHOULDN'T I punish my cheating wife? I haven't as yet, but why should she get a free pass?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:00 AM, December 20th (Friday)

I am , of course, not going to allow my MOm to abuse her.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:11 AM, December 20th (Friday)

After reading my Wife's timeline (btw, she is home) I called the OM and compared it to questions I asked him and his BW. It is clear that the OM is trying to "throw my wife under the bus" he is blaming her for everything. I had her listen on the speaker, so she could hear for herself. I think that now, I have a good idea of the number of sexual incidents, meetings, and I already had a good idea of the number of phone calls. After my kids get home today, we will have a meeting and I will lay the law down about how the Holidays will go. then I will "put everything on hold" until after next week.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:49 AM, December 20th (Friday)

At least with the dialogue with the OM you have another source for the truth besides your WW. Also the confession given to the IC.

Your wife really has to explain her mindset. This was not an ONS, she went back for much more and would have f***ed him January if the car hadn't been so cold; didn't even have the decency to protect her family from STD's/pregnancy by using a condom. Was not intending to confess and was perfectly prepared to give the guy oral sex to his hearts content.

Not that easy of a situation to simply forgive and move on, which is why the focus, [now you substantially have the facts], needs to be WHY, FOR HEAVENS SAKE. As I said before; look for anger, resentment and a desire to punish you for imagined 'neglect'


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:08 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Let me ask you this, Why SHOULDN'T I punish my cheating wife? I haven't as yet, but why should she get a free pass?

Bdell, all we can do is give you our opinions. This is your life, and obviously you can do what you wish.

Your wife by no means has a free pass. While she f***ed up royally, she is paying the price. She whored herself out. Potentially threw her family/life out the window. It ate her up inside enough to seek help. In my opinion, she was given the wrong advice to keep it to herself(at least that was her interpretation). By how fast she has come clean with everything, I believe she would have confessed on her own, if she was not told to do otherwise.

She will gladly wear the scarlet letter for the rest of her life....she has stated such. Not only has she betrayed you and her family, but she betrayed herself---and that is difficult to overcome.

So no.....there is no free pass.

There is a big difference between punishment and consequence. If you feel you need to tell others, because it is how you were raised, and how you live your life, then so be it. But don't punish her because you are hurting, and want to make her hurt more. For example---if your children were raised in your example, do you want them to tell others that are very close to them? You stated that you will lay the groundrules, which means that YOU set the tone. Why can't the tone be like gonnabe stated--that you and your wife are having family issues right now? That is still 100% accurate and true...without going into further detail.

Again, its your call. You know that. We are only suggesting that you cannot unring the bell. As well as you have handled yourself so far, you have to accept that everything is still so raw and fresh, and to at least think about this punishment/consequence scenario a little bit longer.

Good luck.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Kiddingmyself
Member
Member # 33013
Default  Posted: 5:50 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Why SHOULDN'T I punish my cheating wife? I haven't as yet, but why should she get a free pass?

Because she's neither your child nor your pet.


WH on DDay 2: "I should just work and shut up. My happiness doesn't matter."

Posts: 182 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: Ohio
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, December 20th (Friday)

You are absolutely right, Kiddingmysef, how observant of you to notice. She isn't my child or my pet. What she is , is a traitor. She betrayed her husband, her family and her own core values. Put me and herself at risk for STD's Which is, in many parts of the country, a liable act. In pretty much every society, treachery/adultery is, if not punished, not, by any means, encouraged. Congratulations, you are the first poster to post an unwanted, smarta** comment.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Oknow, we have just started to talk about the"why" of it. I expect that when I meet with the counselors, I will have much more insight into her reasoning, faulty though it may be. What she HAS said is that NONE of her reasons justify what she did, and that the choices she made, were made during a period of time when she was consumed with fear and despair. That is what she said.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
reallyscrewedup7
Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Bdell,

First sorry you are here and second, sorry you are getting comments from some that are not helpful or in good spirit.

You've been amazing so far. The fact that some cannot fathom your anger is their problem. Not yours. However, I can say that just strategically, do not rush into anything your cannot undo.

Seeing a lawyer to understand the scope of divorce, separating finances, detaching from your wife to get perspective are all vitally important for betrayed husband. Even with a wayward wife that seemingly expresses real remorse (and not just regret from being caught). The most important thing in the world right now is to get your feet back under you and brother, you seem to be a master at this. So keep on keeping on.

As to exposure to your parents or whomever you desire - that is entirely up to you. Those saying keep it secret are only offering their perspective. You do what you have to. But when you do it, make sure you let them know what happens is your choice and not theirs and this is not their marriage. It is great to get support, believe me. It sucks to get judgement.

And finally, if you have not already, check out the betrayed mens thread in "I Can Relate." Lots of military veterans down there too.

Go Navy! (Sorry, just had to throw that in...)

Strength to you brother


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 899 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, December 20th (Friday)

We have also discussed the DNA testing and polygraph examination. She is willing to have both done, but she wants to tell the kids , beforehand that there is no possibility that they are not mine, to set their minds at rest, and to prove to them , that she is willing to do anything and everything to regain our trust. The same for the polygraph. She will do it anytime, anywhere, and only asked for enough advance warning to cancel or re-schedule her appointments.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Reallyscrewedup, so far every comment has been helpful except one. I am taking no chances, with regards to any financial or legal issues. But I will say in my wife's defense, that she has already stated that she will ask for only her personal belongings, if we divorce. She feels that she does not deserve a part of what we have accumulated as a family, because she betrayed that family. I don't necessarily believe this, and I would most certainly split our money with her, if it comes to that.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, December 20th (Friday)

(@rsu -- you said: "Those saying keep it secret".....there is a big difference between keeping a secret and maintaining privacy. I am advocating for maintaining some privacy for now.)


Gonnabe2016, Let me ask you this, Why SHOULDN'T I punish my cheating wife?

Simply put --
***because you may decide that you WANT to remain married to her.
***because right now you've got the proverbial mascara-streaked, snot-dripping remorseful CW and imposing 'punishment' as opposed to natural consequences may make what is currently a manageable fire into a raging, out-of-control inferno.
***because you DO love her.


As someone said earlier: you cannot unring the bell.
It's your life and your decision; I'm just offering my perspective.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8031 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, December 20th (Friday)

I guess I do have one more opinion to give. Bdell, I know how you feel. But to be honest, I don't think you should try to "punish" your wife. The punishment is a natural consequence of her actions. She may lose you. She may lose a marriage she values. She may lose the respect of her children and family. in my opinion, there is no need to rub her nose in it. Not saying that is what you are intentionally trying to do. However, us BS's, especially BS's like you and me, can get into our own type of Fog. It's a fog of righteousness and anger. How dare they! But we eventually come out of it. And when we do, we regret calling our wives names. We regret doing things that brought humiliation to them, if they are remorseful that is. Your wife is remorseful. So even if you decide to divorce her because you just can't handle what happened. Let that be the punishment. And treat her with kindness. If you do this, I believe that in the end you will have greater respect for yourself, and will be able to move on with a clear conscience. Obviously she really loves you. she has prostrated herself for you. Believe me, that is a rare commodity.

I don't mean to be preachy. This wound is very fresh for you. I think you are doing really well. Better than I did. I was pretty emotionally cruel for a while. I regret it.

Anyway, those are my two bits. Good luck friend. You will have many ups and downs over the next year, regardless of your choices.

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:20 AM, December 20th (Friday)]


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Guys, because I am so new to this, I am finding it really hard to strike a balance. On the one hand, because of my anger, I DO want to rub her nose in it (proverbially). I want her to hurt as bad as I do. Maybe that's wrong, but it is honestly how I feel sometimes. At other times, I remember what we had, before this, and how good we were together, and I want to go back in time to that good place. Also, I want to tell her that I DO feel bad that she was alone and having to bear the burden of her Dad's illness. She told me, yesterday that she meant every word she said about her love and desire for me. I want to believe that it's true, but I can't right now.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 9:40 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Duplicate

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:48 AM, December 20th (Friday)]


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37250 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 9:40 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Bdell,

You're going to get a lot of different opinions from a lot of different people. The best advice I can give is to take what you need and leave the rest.

I will say though that sometimes the advice that bothered me the most is the advice that hit closest to home.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:41 AM, December 20th (Friday)]


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37250 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, December 20th (Friday)

I am finding it really hard to strike a balance. On the one hand, because of my anger, I DO want to rub her nose in it (proverbially). I want her to hurt as bad as I do. Maybe that's wrong, but it is honestly how I feel sometimes.

Bdell, what you are feeling is perfectly normal. It really is. And not a single one of us is going to fault you for feeling that anger. We've all BTDT, 'member?

Something that helped me was this: feelings are just that: feelings. They come and go; ebb and flow. Actions are concrete. Reactions based on 'emotion' are sometimes recognized as unwise (in hindsight).

We get it, Bdell. We're just 'talking it out' with you.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 9:51 AM, December 20th (Friday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8031 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
hurtininHouston
Member
Member # 39250
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, December 20th (Friday)

I finally have to chime in. I am there. Found out 8 mos ago my wife had a. 6 mos text affair with one rendezvous. I am still angry & hurt. We are in R but it is tough. I an very proud & this has rattled me to bone! I also felt tge need for her to hurt. Maybe not right but it is what it is. I love her very much which is why it hurts so much. Do what you need. It will take a long time to "overcome".
H

Posts: 60 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Houston
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Bdell

I understand what your are feeling, but I don't see you as punishing your W. You are expressing your anger which, at this early stage, is completely normal.

As long as you aren't being abusive, and yes I do agree that cheating on your spouse is abusive, you are entitled to process your feelings. You have to or else this toxic mess is going to bubble over.

You have a plan in place. Excellent. Stick to your plan. Use it to find some comfort that even small parts of your life can be predictable.


I can see your logical mind peaking out and looking at situation objectively. You absolutely need to do that. While the situation contributed to your W actions, it does not excuse it. Approaching things with a logical mindset is a great way to cope with some of this crap. You see it. Acknowledge it with your W when you feel comfortable. Another member here once told me it was important to "take a break from the hurt with your W once and awhile."

While it feels wrong and I couldn't do that a lot, it was helpful for me. I slept, ate and coped better.

Again, grain of salt. You know yourself better that we do and know what you need the most right now.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, December 20th (Friday)

Well, things went about as expected today. I had already decided that I would take a walk outside and allow my wife and the kids to get whatever said, that they needed to say to each other, without my input.
When I went back inside, one child was furious and screaming, the other was locked in her room, sobbing, my wife was in the bathroom , alternately sobbing and vomiting, and the dog was howling. If Freddie Kruger had been there it would have looked like a scene from "Nightmare on Elm St". It seemed to me like a good time to go into the office and have a quiet sip, until the furor had died down. After a while , I got the dog to shut up, got the family seated in the living room, and explained what was going to happen over the Holiday week. I told them that what was done could not be undone, so what was important is what we do from now on. We would give gifts like always, we would eat Christmas Dinner like always, we would be with our families like always and the affair and anything related to it was NOT to be brought up until I said that it could. Everybody calmed down, and are going about their business.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, December 20th (Friday)

Just want to again agree with Mike7's comments above.

Plus, some have pointed out that they wished that their WS' had even 1/10th of the remorse your WW has. Don't lose sight of that. There are some posters who are IMO projecting their own anger and disappointment onto your situation. Be careful with poisoning your heart by reading here. It can happen.

I am a big fan of honesty. My WW's family is one that kept secrets about everything - molestation, abuse, mental illness, you name it. Secrecy was their way of dealing with stuff. They also learned that a 'secret' made something special. OM took advantage of my WW's belief in secrecy as opposed to honest communication. I think teaching your kids a lesson in being honest and authentic is very valuable and is to be commended. I think many here were afraid of the confrontation and conflict associated with honest disclosure and thus rationalize that choice.

Your WW's IC gave her very bad advice. When you see an IC you think you are seeing an expert. Heck, my wife's IC encouraged her 1 year EA before the PA under the guise that 'he lived far away' and 'it was good to have a friend to confide in'... Huh, what about the husband?

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 4:40 PM, December 20th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, December 20th (Friday)

Hats off to you Bdell, you're handling this like a champ.

I would also say hats off to Mrs. Bdell, she's handling this pretty well too. I'm not excusing what she did at all, but I'm giving her credit for coming clean. As mad and as hurt as you are now, it's an entirely different hell when they show no remorse and continue to lie to your face and you KNOW it. At this point, she seems to be doing everything possible to minimize your pain. Take some comfort in knowing that it could be worse if it weren't for the way she's handling things now.

I understand how you want her to suffer like you are. I've wanted the same thing because my WW, frankly, doesn't give a shit right now and I don't know that she ever will. I've inquired on SI about telling people to expose the A, but, if I'm honest, it was also to get back at her. I've told some of her family members and some close friends (more for support for me), but it didn't do any good as far as her A is concerned. It embarrassed her and made her mad, but it didn't stop the A either. The difference in my WW and your WW is that yours cares. Telling everyone about it and making her suffer will, IMO, end up hurting BOTH of you in the long run. Even no longer than I've been in this mess with a completely unremorseful WW, I regret saying some of the things I've said that I know hurt her. I would encourage you to spare yourself of that guilt.

I'm sure you've heard "kill 'em with kindness". Well, based on what you've said about your WW, the best way you could "make her suffer" is, IMO, to be kind to her. I would imagine it's easier to justify cheating (doesn't sound like she is even doing that) on an asshole than it is to cheat on the greatest man you've ever known.

If you decide to R, you both will have to help each other. Don't make that path harder on YOU by trying to punish her.

Just my two cents.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
Tickingtock
Member
Member # 41411
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, December 20th (Friday)

Bdell, I know you're desperately trying to figure WHY your wife did this to you. What about the HOW? How did they meet? How did it progress to a PA? I think that may help explain some of the why.


Me: 31, exBGF, now married

Posts: 175 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: West Coast, USA
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, December 20th (Friday)

I know you want to regain control--and for your kids to feel as though there is some sense of control (coming from you)---but please, don't forbid talk of the affair "until you say so."

Your kids are humans, and should be allowed to not only feel, but EXPRESS how they feel, without concern that they will be acting against your wishes.

I'd rescind that directive. They're victims, too---and it's unfair to expect them to adhere to your emotional timetable.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8728 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:36 AM, December 21st (Saturday)

I am trying to be considerate to my wife, as she shows she deserves it. I've allowed her to come home, and have been trying not to make my actions seem punitive. It is really difficult sometimes not to scream at her, but I agree that might be harmful, if I decide to R.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:08 AM, December 21st (Saturday)

Ticking, My wife's timeline and the counseling transcripts are helping me with a lot of the "how and why" questions. They met in September because he is one of her clients, and it stayed that way until right after Thanksgiving of that year, when he asked her to lunch and she accepted. Phone contact from September to November was very minimal. After their lunch date, phone contact increased until by December it was several times a day, then there was the "make out" session in late January, then the first weekend "sex session"in February, then the last weekend "sex session" in March and the PA ended. Then phone contact decreased until May when it ended altogether. Since that time, approximately 4 years ago, there has been no phone contact from her phone or the house phone at all, and no checks or credit card purchases in the town where they had their rendezvous. There was only minimal contact on FB and that was in February and March and ended in late March, right after my wife ended the affair. MY wife began counseling immediately after she ended the affair, went to counseling every week until I got home from my out of state job, then continued counseling for the remainder of the year, then quit. This stuff I can prove or disprove.
My wife said that she didn't want to continue counseling because she wanted to put the affair behind her and continuing the counseling, kept it in the forefront of her mind , always, increased her guilt and would trigger depressing thoughts. She decided that she would bear the burden of her guilt, and at the same time become a better wife and mother, and treat me the best she could. The counselor states that she thought that my wife would continue counseling and that eventually I would be told about the affair. This stuff I can't prove either way.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:21 AM, December 21st (Saturday)

Solus, My instructions not to talk about the affair, are temporary for the Christmas holidays, and in public. Of course, privately, as a family, we can talk about anything. After the Holidays, then the affair will be on a "need to know" basis. My wife understands this and accepts it. I will tell my Dad after Christmas, and he will tell Mom, when he thinks it's time to do so. My wife has already "outed" herself to her Pastor, her boss, and has written a letter of apology to the wife of the OM. She will not lose her job, because it was several years ago, and her job performance hasn't suffered, but her Boss has expressed strong disapproval.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, December 21st (Saturday)

When I went back inside, one child was furious and screaming, the other was locked in her room, sobbing, my wife was in the bathroom , alternately sobbing and vomiting, and the dog was howling.

It seems your family has a lot of anxiety. Have you thought about family counseling or IC for yourself?

You don't need to tell your parents anything. You say your family is completely honest and transparent. Does this mean your parents know your sexual likes and dislikes? Why not? Because it's not their business. Telling your parents will bite you in the butt. If your mother is very religious and you decide to R, will she disown you? She doesn't have to overtly abuse your W to destroy her.


Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:02 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

I don't think anybody in my family reacted outrageously considering what had happened. Two young people discover that their mother is a cheater, their mother is consumed with guilt and shame and you expect them to act normally? What planet are you from? Oh sure, the dog overreacted, but he's always been a sympathetic soul.
And lie to my parents for how long? It isn't simply a matter of whether it is their business or not , it is a matter of making up false explanations to account for the turmoil in my family. As I said, we are a very close knit family, and I am not accustomed to lying or deceiving my parents. Perhaps your relationship with your family isn't as strong as mine is.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Like I said earlier, if you feel the need to talk to your parents, I don't blame you. That is your choice, and you are certainly entitled to it. I just stated that you don't have to go into detail of your marital problems if you don't wish to.

One of the difficult parts I remember shortly after D-day, was how to be the strong, yet understanding father, while my world was blown apart. My kids were much younger than yours, so I handled them differently.

I don't want to go off on a long side story here, but I will anyway:

I had the best parents in the world...the are both deceased. I can tell you that today, and every day forward, I appreciate even more the relationship that they had. For that, I am one lucky bastard.

My mother passed away suddenly, 19 year before my father. I was the youngest of 3 children at the age of 24, and I can tell you that all three of us fell apart. My father, in his typical superhuman self, carried his three kids through that crisis. But I would still catch him crying occasionally...the first time in my life that I saw that.

But the one thing I knew, was that he would never look for another partner.

Fast forward 17 years past my mother's death. Due to his heavy involvement in AA(at this point, he was sober for 51 years, but he always wanted to help others), I somehow came to believe that he was emotionally involved with a member that he was helping. It seemed to bother him more about the problems that she was having(financially), and for whatever reason, I just had the belief that he just wanted some companionship in his later life.

I was wrong. He was just my typical father who saw the good in everyone, and was helping another person who was in need. There was no emotional attachment...at least in the way that I was thinking...and that was the end of that.

But the point I am getting to, is that it really bothered me. Way more than I ever thought. It was not my place to decide how my father lived, and if he was looking for company, then who the hell am I to say no? But I still couldn't come to grips with my thoughts. I was being selfish and confused....over something that was all in my mind.

So I can't imagine how your kids feel. They were blindsided as much...if not more...than you, if that is possible. Our parents are there to protect us---and we look up to them like no others in our lives. So how do they cope with this?

I only say this because you do seem to have as good a handle on everything as one could be, in your situation. Plus, on top of this, your wife in right on the edge, and seeing the destruction of the three most important people in her life, has got to be taking its toll.

I guess what I am suggesting is, to tread lightly. There is a whole world of unchecked emotion in your household. I wish you the best in how you see fit to handle it.

Sorry, friend.

Sorry for you, your kids, and your wife.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
whatlysbeneath
Member
Member # 32665
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Bdell,

I agree with your approach, only you KNOW your family and so far you have handled a horrible situation with grace, fortitude, wisdom, and remarkable restraint.

I was also blessed with a wonderfully tight knit family of orgin, sadly both my great parents passed before my WWs choices. I miss their support but at least they were spared the betrayal of a person they loved and accepted like a daughter.

It always strikes me as a contradiction when some on S I advise against one of S I s basic tenants, openess, transparency and truth.

It could just be that only a few of us on S I had incredible parents that support with strength and wisdom, not perfect, but great none the less.

I will continue to pray for you and your family.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together 18 years
M 17
D day 2010
4 young children
Every secret in a marriage is a lie...I'm tired of being lied too.

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Mayberry to Hell to Limboville
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

bdell

I truly hope you find some joy with your entire family this Christmas.

And while you might decide to punish your wife I do hope you put some thought into how far you will go.

Because it will determine how high she has to climb back up.

She is remorseful but how strong she is only you and she can truly know.

Consequences are necessary. I do agree with you.

Ride herd on your family. Everyone is hurt but when they gang up like that no good or positive steps can come from that behavior.

Take this week to recharge, enjoy time with your family and ponder your future.

HM
PS
What rank were you in the service?


Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

I know there are some posters who believe that my approach has been heavy-handed, but I would like to assure you all that my wife had agreed to every step I have taken. If anything, she has been far harder on herself than I have been.
I would also like to say that I sat my kids down and told them that there was to be no disrespect for their mother. Her affair was between she and I, and she has always been a wonderful Mom to them.
She later came to me and said that was the best Christmas present she ever got. I also would like to say that I will have zero tolerance for anyone else , outside the family, disrespecting or insulting my wife. She may be a cheater, but she is MY cheater.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Until I say otherwise.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

That's the first time you've said that your WW is "yours".

Sounds to me like your on your way to R.

Now that would be a REAL Christmas present.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

t/j
one of S I s basic tenants, openess, transparency and truth

.....that is correct. But I have always *heard* it as openness, transparency and truth BETWEEN SPOUSES/within the relationship. I've never understood it as also adding "to the world at large."

My take is that a BS who wishes to R should only go with the full-bore, shock-and-awe disclosure campaign if that BS is dealing with an unremorseful, cake-eating WS.
And then varying levels of disclosure to others, under other circumstances. Such as if the BS wants to tell someone because s/he is in need of support.
end t/j

Bdell. I'm glad to see that you are not holding firm to the "have to tell my mom when she's here" and are going to recon the situation before you take any decisive action. I like your plan of getting through the holiday and then letting your dad break the news to her at a later time.
Everyone's emotions are running so high right now.....I'm concerned that if you mom goes "ballistic" and starts verbally running your CW down, that it will cause a lot of confusing/conflicted emotions in you and your kids. You may feel satisfaction about it, while also feel as if you want to 'defend/protect' CW against your mom's attack (if that is how your mom handles the news). And then, if your CW really is remorseful, you will feel guilty for allowing and enjoying the beat-down that mom gave to CW.
It really is a mine-field.

Enjoy the holiday and your kids as much as you are able to. You'll work your way through this....and you'll be okay.


eta: cross-posted. I was glad to see that you cracked down on the kids about being disrespectful towards their mother.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 8:59 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8031 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

You are not heavy handed at all..It is hell navigating thru this shit storm..

If you feel that you need to let your mom know it is because you need the support..If she asks though, can you just tell her that you are going thru a rough patch in your marriage and leave it at that?... But like others before me said, you know yourself and your loved ones way better than we do..

Based on my personal experience, I am an advocate for sitting mom down and telling her the WHOLE story if or when you decide to D, not this early in the game..

I have experienced family members being judgmental AGAINST me for being married to my WH..

When I found out that he cheated, this was terrible to my self esteem, but the stress of feeling tension in the air every time I visited family made it even worse..

I had no choice in choosing whether or not to tell my parents when my first D day happened, because I found out in a very dramatic/traumatic way and then it made the public news very quickly..This was 27 years ago..

My family was judgmental about me not leaving, yet they weren't able to provide me much support had I left..Fear at the prospect of raising a new baby as a single parent with little support paralyzed me ..We R'd and raised our kiddos who are grown now.. But this tension between my WH and my family got me to the point where I became somewhat isolated from my family..I had to visit them without WH..

My mom isn't so judgmental this time around, she knows that I am not in R and she is only concerned about my wellbeing..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 10:58 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1202 | Registered: Nov 2011
Girlietoo
Member
Member # 38719
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

A marriage is between two people, not two people and their parents. If you needed parents for support that is understandable but this is about humiliating your wife.

I am a BS and I never thought I would take the side of a WS but in this case I think your wife is the one who should be doing the leaving.

Don't worry, I won't read any more so as not to get myself any more upset and risk lashing out at you.


Me- 40
Him- 47
March 9, 2013- the day my heart died

Posts: 247 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Perhaps your relationship with your family isn't as strong as mine is.

I realize you're hurting, but you've really been quite nasty to a great many posters here, all of whom are here to support you. Telling everyone that any man would remember your wife? no, not at all. I'm sure you've seen many beautiful women in your life - and you don't come close to remembering them all. Regarding your children - no, I don't think they overreacted, and I'm from this planet. Just because they didn't overreact doesn't mean that they couldn't use a good counselor.

Not telling your parents that your wife cheated years ago is not lying to them. This is not something they have a right to know, so it isn't lying by omission either. You may want to tell them, and you may think that every thing that happens in your life is their business, but you are a grown man. You can tell your parents that marriages have issues, and you aren't up to discussing it now. But you won't, because that would leave 2 people that aren't looking down on your wife.

Your kids didn't need details. They needed to know that married couples have problems. Your parents don't need to know.

Don't get me wrong - you handle this how you want and how you feel is appropriate. But please don't keep taking swings at the people here. They are all here to help and support you. No one here is an enemy, but you are treating us as if we are the ones that cheated.

BTW, you may not want your WW disrespected, but if you continue to tell people about it, she will be, and you cannot control the world.

I hope you find peace.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Girlietoo, thank you for not participating any more.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Painfulpast, advice relating to the affair and it's issues are appreciated. Criticism of my family and my relationship with them is not. I am fully aware that I am a grown man, so your remark was rude and patronizing. If you have nothing positive to contribute, I would suggest that you go elsewhere. If you don't want me to be defensive, then don't attack me.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

I would also like posters to know that with one exception, I have been polite and calm with my wife, and have not humiliated her or held her up to ridicule in any way. I told her to tell the kids the "bare bones" of the issue and not to elaborate on any details that she felt uncomfortable mentioning. Every person who knows about the affair is somebody that SHE has agreed should be told and in some cases, has volunteered to tell. In point of fact, I have agreed to far more secrecy than I am normally comfortable with, to protect her Mother's feelings, for example. I told her to tell her Pastor so that he could help her and give her guidance, telling her boss and SIL was her idea. I have even asked her to point out to me any time she feels I am being abusive or rude.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

The one exception was when I first saw her after she returned home. I was unable to contain my anger and pain, so for about 20 minutes, Yes, I shouted and swore at her , calling her many crude names, until I decided to leave and get control of my emotions. I then returned and apologized to her for my language. I have not repeated that behavior, since.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Regardless of whether we divorce or reconcile, I am determined to proceed with understanding, compassion, and courtesy, but also with the clear understanding of the boundaries for conduct that I feel is best.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Bdell, I agree with your approach. I also agree with your decision to let your family know what you are dealing with since you know your family.

I agree with transparency and being authentic. I do NOT see simply saying to your dad that hey my wife had an affair and it is long over and my wife is very remorseful is punishing anyone. A simple statement like that is discrete and not disrespectful.

I think the unusual reaction by some may be their projecting onto you. Many BSs here keep the secret as a way of 'nicing' their spouse back into recommitting. Also I think some BSs internalize the shame of their WS' choices. So they do not want anyone to know. Finally, many still feel the need for their parents approval...

Heck, if you cant share your pain with your own family, who can you turn to?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Bell, everyone here, well almost everyone, is trying to give you the best advice they can. The saying here is take what you need and leave the rest. If a particular piece of advice is not for you, ignore it, but be sure that the one who gave it was just trying to help. You're raw and in pain, we've all been there. No one wants to attack or hurt you any further.

One of the common themes we've learn here is that the A is never an isolated incident. Many factors played a part in getting you to this place and you're going to have to deal with a lot of satellite issues the A has caused. One of the big ones is its effect on family and friends. We try to give advice on all aspects of the damage, cuz it gets spread far and wide.

Bro'hugz.


Remember, everyone here, even the ass-hats who can't keep there anger in check, are actually trying to help.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 636 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

I think the unusual reaction by some may be their projecting onto you. Many BSs here keep the secret as a way of 'nicing' their spouse back into recommitting. Also I think some BSs internalize the shame of their WS' choices. So they do not want anyone to know. Finally, many still feel the need for their parents approval...

LOL. OK. I threw my WH out after a week of him not being remorseful, but I tried to nice him back. Ok. Oh, his affair was over 3 months before I discovered it, but I was being nice to get him to recommit. What was that you were saying about projection?

Bdell, I wasn't attacking you or your family. My real point was the hostility you've shown many of the posters here. I commented on your family because you made it seem as if there is no other way. Also, you seem to be dragging out telling people. Today it's your friends. Tomorrow, the kids. In 3 days, your parent. If you're going to tell, then do so. Why keep punishing her by humiliating her over and over and over.

I don't blame you a bit for yelling when you first found out. If it was just that one time, you're better than most in that sense.

However, I stand by my comment that if you are going to insist on people respecting your wife, you're going to be sorry if you continue to tell people. Eventually you'll hit people that have no respect for a cheater and won't no matter what.

You are free to disagree with me and others here. You aren't free to be disrespectful. That was my point.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 4:08 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)]


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

I am fully aware that I am a grown man, so your remark was rude and patronizing. If you have nothing positive to contribute, I would suggest that you go elsewhere.

I am also backing out of your thread (you're welcome) because every time you hear something that you don't want to hear, you take it as criticism and as not being "positive." If you don't like the differing ideas that come with a message board, then I have no clue as to why you are here. It would probably be best for you to only confide in your parents and others who are not keen to disagree with anything you may have to say.

[This message edited by cissi at 6:12 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)]


Posts: 1417 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 8:54 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Bdell,

You have a PM


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37250 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

I do appreciate every post, even those I do not agree with. However as regards my parents, the decision has been made, so I would appreciate also that even those who disagree would respect my choice and drop the subject. I have full confidence that my Dad will inform my Mom in such a way that she will not be tempted to berate or disrespect my wife. So that particular subject is closed.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Cissi, I have no problem with disagreement, if respectfully presented. However, my nerves have been on edge for several days and I am understandably not particularly interested in any further secrecy. Don't you think I have had enough of lies and deceit? I have no intention of getting into specifics with my parents or anyone else, but neither am I going to hide the affair. , Just to try to "nice" her into remorse. I don't have to do that because I believe that she already has enough remorse to go around. I want a transparent and honest marriage or a fair and equitable divorce. I am determined to do this right.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

Painfulpast, You can be assured that the only people that have been told of the affair were those that both my wife and I agreed should be told, and those people were only told when it was necessary to do so. My kids were told for two reasons, they have a right to know what is wrong with their parents, and as a early measure of my wife's remorse and ability to face the consequences of her actions. Had my wife been home at the time I discovered the affair, we would have done this jointly. The counselor obviously had to know. Her sister had to know, because she was staying with her and should know the reason why. My Buddy and his wife had to know for my own sanity, I needed somebody I could trust to act as a sounding board for my feelings. I can't do this alone.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)

hang in there Bdell. You're doing well in my opinion. You have to realize that everyone here is hurting in some fashion or another, so emotions run high for everyone. and everyone has an opinion. take what you can leave the rest.

and don't feel bad about getting a pm from a moderator, i've gotten my share. don't always agree, but then, i'm not a moderator.

i do believe that we all wish the best for you. we all know this shit-road sucks, even the WS's. read the wayward forum once in a while, there's a lot of pain there too. and they have the added pain of guilt. I admire a lot of the WS's in wayward because i can see how much work they've done and how hard they are trying.

One thing I am certain of, things will get better, no matter what you and your wife decide. You'll see.

wishing you all the best.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Junebug0525
Member
Member # 29142
Default  Posted: 3:37 AM, December 23rd (Monday)

I think that you're probably handling all of this very well, however the way you come across seems very demanding and belittling to your wife. Obviously none of us are there and tone and context can be lost in written words, so things are probably very different than what they appear to be on your end vice what you've typed. That's the problem with text. You can't decipher it all.

As for your parents, I'm fully supportive of telling them. I told mine, he told his mom (but didn't give her the truth, so I did). In fact, I told damn near everyone I knew. Like you said, it's needed for support. However, my ex wasn't behaving the way your wife was, so I vented. A lot. My ex was awful. So, just be prepared to defend your wife against those you do tell. Make sure you're ready to ask them to respect your decision to stay (if that's what you choose) and that there may be arguments with those individuals in the future should they choose to treat your wife differently, as some may. Who you tell is your choice, no one else's. It's how you want to handle the situation. Just be aware of the consequences. As long as you're ok with dealing with those, proceed.

Seconding what many have said so far, your wife is the poster child for remorse. She obviously hurts and even though I have a hard time sympathizing with WS's, it appears your wife truly is remorseful and that she loves you very much. I definitely recommend counseling for both of you, both IC and MC. You could probably benefit from having an outside source to vent to.

I wish you the best. This is a shitty time of year to find out this kind of stuff.


Me: BS
Him: WXH DDay-11/22/2009~ D~ 10/25/10
OWhore: Co-worker (7 years younger)
"Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together." AND THEY DID!!!

Posts: 1141 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Maryland
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 4:07 AM, December 23rd (Monday)

Junebug, I'm surprised that some posters cannot see that the only thing that keeps me together is my concern for my family. Yes, even including my wife. I would LOVE to be able to rant and rave and cry and feel sorry for myself, but that isn't an option. I come across a uncaring and blunt, because I HAVE to be, right now. If I gave in to my feelings, what would happen? Almost certainly, divorce, my kids hating their mom, the wholesale disintegration of all that we have built together.
Anyone who knows me, knows how much I loved my wife. I adored her from the first day. But this woman who cheated isn't who I thought she was, but some treacherous stranger. I would love it if somebody could tell me how I am supposed to reconcile with somebody I'm not sure I ever truly knew. I asked her this question last night. I asked, " Who are you"? She told me that she is the same woman I married, that her love and respect and desire for me , never wavered, that what happened was a series of bad choices brought on by loneliness , depression and fear, and a desire to escape from those things. So here is another question to the BS's , how can she prove these things? How does a cheater prove that it will not happen again? Because I am not going to settle for less. Whatever happens, I am not going to settle for a second rate marriage

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Junebug0525
Member
Member # 29142
Default  Posted: 4:39 AM, December 23rd (Monday)

how can she prove these things? How does a cheater prove that it will not happen again?

That's up to you. No BS is the same, nor are any WS's. Sure, there are similar attributes, but every person is different. Not everyone handles everything the same. It's going to be what YOU need her to do to prove these things. Maybe she never will. "Time heals all wounds"...or something to that affect. You may need her to prove to you over time that she'll never do it again. You may never be able to trust her again. No one can make that decision for you. Not your parents, not your friends, not your kids. You.

I don't believe in "once a cheater, always a cheater". I think that there are some people that make extremely bad choices (which can be dealbreakers), such as it seems with your wife. Your wife cheated, but is she a "cheater"? Do you believe that your wife is a completely different person, or do you believe that she was broken and made a serious error in judgement, but deep down she's still the woman you adore? Again why I suggest counseling for you both. She needs it to find out why she did this and how to cope with future issues without cheating. You need it to deal with your frustrations, anger, and how to cope with what has happened. Marriage counseling is pretty obvious. You guys have a HUGE barrier to your relationship.

What you're feeling is normal. Anger, betrayal, hurt, confusion, even love. You can still love your wife during all of this. Don't think that has to change. But you have to go through all of the feelings before you can heal, so that's why many have told you not to make any decisions as of yet. Wait until you experience the emotions and your mind is a little clearer. A counselor can help with that. Also, if you haven't, check out the healing library and other books that are recommended.


Me: BS
Him: WXH DDay-11/22/2009~ D~ 10/25/10
OWhore: Co-worker (7 years younger)
"Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together." AND THEY DID!!!

Posts: 1141 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Maryland
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, December 23rd (Monday)

How does a cheater prove that it will not happen again? Because I am not going to settle for less. Whatever happens, I am not going to settle for a second rate marriage.

The answer to that one is hotly debated. But I think the truth is they can't. But they never really could but we just didnít know it. If they cheated then it was in them to cheat all along and the right set of circumstances just never came up.

For some, the right circumstances is a low bar and easily reached. They cheat repeatedly and will probably never stop.

For some, and your WW seems to be one of these, the bar is very high and very hard to reach. The response from your wife would seem to indicate she is disgusted she reached that level and is working to set the bar even higher. My WW fits into that category, but no way near as all in as your WW seems to be.

I'm 7 Years out from my D-Day. The recovery is a very long hard road and if it wasnít for my kids I might not have put in the effort. The reason I'm still here on SI is my WW doesn't have it in her to do the really hard work to better herself so I sometimes need the support I find here. But her bar was already pretty high and a similar set of circumstance to your situation was what it took to reach A level. Nothing good ever comes from an A. But sometimes the A sets up a chain reaction of events that can strengthen the bond you had or make a new one.

Thatís what happened for me. I fell out of love with who I thought my wife was. The one I put on the pedestal. But I stayed for the kids, then came to grips with who my wife really is. I fell in love with the real person who fell off the pedestal and is standing right beside me.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 7:25 AM, December 23rd (Monday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 636 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
Justgreatnews
Member
Member # 41666
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, December 23rd (Monday)

I think that BDell is handling things in a proactive, affirmative way. All this concern for feelings and decorum comes second to the complete lack of concern his wife displayed. BDell has to do what he feels the situation dictates.

People are different. BDell has chosen not to draw away and ruminate, but to take control.


Posts: 261 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, December 23rd (Monday)

How does a cheater prove that it will not happen again?

You have to R with her, and stay with her until the day she or you die. That's the only way. It's up to you to decide if you'll let her try to prove it or not. It takes another leap of faith on the part of the BS. For her to prove it, you have to give her the gift of R.

I have the same concerns about my WW. If she comes back (not likely, but for arguments sake), am I willing to give her the chance to prove that she won't do it again? If she was as remorseful as you WW seems to be, then my answer would be "yes".

Hang in there man. And again, count your blessings that your WW is as remorseful as she is. I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, December 23rd (Monday)

Realitystinks , this is my issue, I don't know if I want to make that leap of faith, without some kind of safety net

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, December 23rd (Monday)

There is no safety net, just as there wasn't one the day you married. Sadly, none of us ever thought we needed one.

You either take that leap, or you don't, but if a person can cheat, they can cheat. Do I believe once a cheater always a cheater? No, not at all. But I know that a person can cheat no matter what I do or don't do, or what they do or say or don't do or don't say. They can go to IC every day, and leave and cheat. They can become depressed in 5 years, and cheat. They can tell a person the A is over, and it isn't.

I'm sorry that you want some guarantee. If you find how to get one, please let us all know. We'd all love one too.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
PricklePatch
Member
Member # 34041
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, December 23rd (Monday)

I did a post nip. I also asked for a photograph on demand. One thing I noticed is she is saying she made a choice. This is so much more then the usual I mate a mistake. My other point is your children have real feelings she violated there trust and needs to earn there respect.


BS
Fwh
sorry post on my tablet

Posts: 297 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: pricklepatch
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, December 23rd (Monday)

this is my issue, I don't know if I want to make that leap of faith, without some kind of safety net

Bdell, as my user name suggests, there is no safety net. 5 long term relationships, 5 cheating women. The first 4 were 1 and done. That included my first marriage. I cannot fathom the wayward mindset. Nor did I have any desire to. I cannot say it enough, there is no safety net.

The difference this time? SI. I cannot emphasize enough the value of the knowledge base here. I learned that I needed to put off major decisions for 6 months to a year.(Takes that long to learn to stand again) I learned the difference between regret and remorse. Actions, not words. It took my FWW 8 months to figure out the difference. I'm nearly a year out from that and 2 from D-day. I'm currently trying R

R is not for everyone. For some, the A is a deal breaker immediately, remorseful WW or no. Others, take time to get there. Some decide to try R. The only possibility for success is with a completely remorseful WW. IMO, yours sounds like one such. That has nothing to do with your decision though. Take your time. Read, learn, heal. Time is on your side. You're doing ok.

BTW, I also learned I've got a busted picker

Strength brother.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2869 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)

By safety net, I mean some kind of proof of her love, respect, desires and loyalty. I understand that anything is possible. She should be ready and willing to do whatever I say to provide these proofs. So far, she has done all that I have asked, and much, much more. Even to the point of suggesting things I hadn't thought of. A good point that my Buddy's wife made, is that there is no evidence of any kind that she cheated after March, and even the OM and his wife say the same thing. Plus, these last four years , before my knowledge of the affair, were some of the best of our marriage. we have become a lot more communicative and loving and close. I asked her what she would do if I divorced her, and she said that she would wait for me, forever if need be, to come back to her.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Godsgirl
Member
Member # 27521
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)

HI Bdell,
I'm so sorry for the pain you are going through. I have a very close knit family as well, and there was no way I could keep my pain to myself. I did make it very clear to my family that no one was to treat my WH disrespectfully especially when our young kids were around. I also told close friends because I needed to have support. It had nothing to do with punishing my WH.

The one thing I was determined to do was keep my dignity. Wh had taken so much from me already and I wasn't going to let him take that as well. I used my anger to keep myself from backing down on what I needed to heal and survive. And to this day, I have no regrets for anything I said or did to my FWH during those first few years.

Now my story turned very ugly after the first 7 months and I hope that your WW really is being truthful and sincere in her remorse. December is never going to be the same for you no matter what happens between you and your WW. All of my DDays landed in December and I absolutely hate this month which is sad since my youngest was born on December 13th.

Take care of yourself and focus on your own healing. If you need to separate from your WW after the holidays and file for D, then do it. You can always change your mind. You've just fallen into the most nightmarish roller coaster of your life. You're going to go through all five stages of grief in different orders and probably several times in each stage. Read through our healing library. I can't count the number of times I read each article. I'm also a book lover so I bought and read a lot of books on recovering from an affair. And like many others have mentioned, take the advise you need and leave the rest behind. You know yourself, your life, your WW, your family, your kids, ect. better than anyone on this forum. Go with your gut and do whats best for you and your family.

I pray that you and your family will be able to enjoy some of the holidays.


Me-BS (41)
Him-SAWH (41)
Together 25 years, married 21 years
4 precious kiddos
Multi DDay's,False R
4 Ea's, 1 ONS, 3 STA's, & 2 LTA's & 1 OC

I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength!


Posts: 856 | Registered: Feb 2010
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 1:15 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)

Bdell,

I notice when you hear something you don't like you go into lash out mode. Your childish comment was uncalled for. Which leads me to what I said about anxiety...

I would expect sadness or anger but what you describe is anxiety. My family is very strong with healthy boundaries and enough respect for each other to not go wading into each other's sex lives.


Eta: typo/autocorrect malfunction corrected.

[This message edited by seriouslylostit at 2:38 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:54 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)

Godsgirl , Separation after the Holidays is a definite possibility. I think both of us would benefit from some time apart. She doesn't really want to, but I think that this is because she thinks that if she isn't with me, I might decide I don't need her in my life.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)

By safety net, I mean some kind of proof of her love, respect, desires and loyalty. So far, she has done all that I have asked, and much, much more. Even to the point of suggesting things I hadn't thought of. A good point that my Buddy's wife made, is that there is no evidence of any kind that she cheated after March, and even the OM and his wife say the same thing. Plus, these last four years , before my knowledge of the affair, were some of the best of our marriage. we have become a lot more communicative and loving and close. I asked her what she would do if I divorced her, and she said that she would wait for me, forever if need be, to come back to her.

Bdell

Two things.

A safety net? There are no guarantees in life. But her post affair actions speak volumes about where her mind is concerning you, your marriage and her respect for herself.

A separation?

I get where you are coming from. Your mind is reeling. Her affair from 4 years ago feels like it happened today for you.

But to your wife it was 4 years ago. She did it. Went to counseling to own up to it, process it, understand it and bury it.

So while she does not want a separation please look at both sides.

I again will stress not rushing to any major decisions regarding your marriage but I will say that some separation will maybe clear your head and lower some of your emotions.

Sadly if you do separate you will likely spend some serious time consoling your wifes fears.

Crazy isnt't it.......

I think you have handled this lousy event in your life so very well. Admirable in fact.

Be strong for your family.

HM


Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)

I already copied your prior statement on page 10, and was about to post it, when I saw happyman's post at the top of page 11. It was just about what I was going to type word for word(wow---that guy happyman must be a GENIOUS ).

All kidding aside, you have to do what you feel you have to do. Personally, if you do decide to separate, your WW will struggle emotionally. She will relapse, to what level I do not know.

Will she cheat again, or start crossing her boundaries again? I doubt it. Is this fair in the least to you? Nope. But these are very real possibilities that I am sure you are considering. She is paying her price....in spades....as are you---the only problem is, believe it or not, you are still the mentally stronger one right now. You didn't betray yourself and your family. Your wife is reeling, and if you do want to protect her as you have stated, keep that at the front of your mind. In other cases, it may look like codependency, but that is the farthest from the truth. I just don't think that your wife could handle a separation at this point.

I don't think that I have ever given this advice in 4 years here, but that is how I see it---a WW who was remorseful before discovery, and was "trying" to do the right thing after her betrayal. It has eaten her alive for years, and I do believe that if you do reconcile, she will heal even more than she did the last 4 years, because it is now in the open. That doesn't make this shit one bit easier for you, because it should have never have happened. You shouldn't have had your world nuked this last month. But it has, and you can't change it.

What you do now is your choice. Leave or stay, there is no wrong answer. You have a world of healing to do, and you need to do what is best for you. All I am doing is giving you my opinion from the information you have told us.

There are no safety nets. No guarantees. For either of you. The score has been reset to 0-0. The rest is up to the two of you.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
TOMTEFAR
Member
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, December 25th (Wednesday)

Don't agree.

The score will never be 0-0 again. The score will forever be tillted the wrong way if he stays.

The thing is though. Could Bdell live with that. Some can some can't. Make sure you make the right decision for you Bdell, let it take time...


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, December 26th (Thursday)

TOM,

It is reset. The old marriage is gone....as Bdell knew it.

The point is, he doesn't have to start a new "game". If he wants out, he is well justified in doing so. But if he chooses to attempt reconciliation, then you don't go into it with the intent of keeping an upper hand. The intent is to create(or re-create) a satisfying, healthy, loving, reciprocating relationship.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, December 26th (Thursday)

I actually agree and disagree with both points of view. I don't want my marriage to be a contest about who occupies the moral high ground, but I will also demand a LOT more of her , in the future, and give her far less slack than I did in the past. For example, she lost the right of privacy, for the foreseeable future, until I am satisfied that she can be trusted. Plus there is to be no secrecy, OF ANY KIND. Not even little , white, lies or evasions.
However, if I decide to forgive her, then that means exactly that, the past is forgiven , and will not be brought up as a kind of "trump" to top any disagreement we might have in the future.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, December 26th (Thursday)

Bdell

There is nothing wrong with forgiveness.

A. If she is truly deserving of it.

B. If you truly give it to her as the gift that it truly is.

But take it from me and many others on TAM; just because you forgive does not mean you will ever forget.

And privacy has very little meaning in open, committed relationships.

I hope the holidays are peaceful for you at home Bdell.

HM


Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, December 26th (Thursday)

The score will never be 0-0 again. The score will forever be tilted the wrong way if he stays.

JB is right. The old marriage is dead Tom.

If Bdell decides he still loves his wife and knows he is strong enough to attempt reconciliation with his wife then they both are committing to a rematch aren't they?

And if Bdell and his wife truly love each other they will not keep score on their marriage.

Her remorse is their. BDell's honesty is there.

Now is the time to let emotions settle, the dust to clear and ponder what life will be like with and without each other.

They have a lot of history so a good amount of time might be necessary to think about these big decisions.

HM



Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, December 26th (Thursday)

It's my personal opinion, but I question telling the children and your parents. Can you honestly say in your heart that the reason for it is because you are a close knit family? Or, is it to humiliate her and get revenge of some sort.

Of course she agreed to do it. You could probably ask her to cut off her finger and she'd do it. So that is not an argument for doing it.

Just remember, you can't unring this bell any more than she can make the affair disappear.

If you look at your responses from the beginning of this thread to now, you can see an evolution? Because you cannot know how you will feel 6 months or a year from now, why not err on the side of caution?

Just my opinion.

[This message edited by k9lover1 at 2:43 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8099 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
TOMTEFAR
Member
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, December 26th (Thursday)

I'm not saying that he can't R with his wife.

However, I don't Think the M could ever be equal again. We are just human and as many have said you can forgive but you can't forget. It's Always gonna be there in the back of your mind. It might not Always be pressent in your thoughts but it will be from time to time. Therefor I don't ever Think it could be an even score if you R.

That doesn't mean that, if you R, you should use it against your wife for the rest of your M. It doesn't mean that you can't have a very good M after the A.

What I said was just that the BS will Always be down in the scoreboard if they save the M. If you can't live with and accept that you will not R successfully.


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
workindad
New Member
Member # 41790
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, December 26th (Thursday)

Sorry for the spot you are in. I do see that you have options and that is at least something.

You could reconcile with your wife- she seems more than interested.

You could divorce her and move on, she seems resigned to give you a good deal.

You could divorce her and try again with her as a live in girlfriend. You already took her wedding ring. This would enable you to get a good settlement now, while she is agreeable. Her willingness to be so agreeable may not last.

She was obviously into this guy a lot at the time, all other BS considered. She spent family money, when money was tight on a special B&B so they could have sex.

I have a hard time believing it is such a terrible memory for her since it went on more than once. She must have really liked the sex with him. Maybe he's a real ace in bed, who knows, except for your wife.

As for POSOM, you are being nice to him. This guy was balls deep in your wife more than once. He consumed your family's money as well and kept her contact information and called her to tip her off. Post him on cheaterville and send the link to everyone you can including him and his wife.

Did your wife at least get tested for STDs to protect your health? If that was covered, I can't recall.

If you want to divorce, go full steam ahead. You can always get remarried if she proves herself in the future. If she fails again, show her the door.

Good luck
WD


Posts: 16 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, December 26th (Thursday)

Telling my Mom is no longer an issue. My wife confessed to Mom this evening. It was not pretty.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, December 27th (Friday)

Forgive me. I haven't read ALL of your responses, most, yes. I felt compelled to give you a bit of my perspective, I also didn't find out till years later, albeit under different circumstances, my WH was a serial cheater.

He agrees, as do I that he has given up, FOR LIFE, the right to privacy. I have access to all passwords, and I can check anything, anytime. I looked rather obsessively in the beginning. I hardly do anymore. If you decide to reconcile, I predict it will be much the same for you. It's not so much that you're checking on her as you are protecting yourself from further trauma and damage. Every time you DON'T find anything frightening, you build trust and repair damage.

We decided not to tell too many people. We did tell our adult children. Ours is an addictive issue that caused overall dysfunction. Our kids needed to know. That decision was yours to make.

I think you are SO early in this process that you are expecting too much of yourself. They say to NOT make any major decisions after a life trauma for 6 months to a year. You will cycle back and forth and rise up and down so many times...allow it to happen. You'll rage at your WW, you'll want to hold her and never let her go, sometimes all in the space of the same 20 minutes. It's a loss of control that I never thought I'd experience, and then never thought I'd heal from.

January 2009 was my final d day. So 5 years. That's how long it took me. And I'm still not there. But that has more to do with the fact that I was verbally and emotionally abused for the 20 years prior to d day. YOU have a WW who has shown you for the past years, with concrete actions, that she regretted her cheating, that she was devoted and loving to you. If you choose to reconcile, I strongly suspect your healing will be significantly shorter.

Holding you in the LIGHT...


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3578 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Long Gone
Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 3:35 AM, December 27th (Friday)

Tom...

This has been your mantra since you came here...

punish punish punish

It will never work....has been proven never to work....

Not everyone here wants to punish their WS for life....a true Reconciliation can not have one party holding it over the others head. No....you don't easily forget....but you can forgive over time with work...and you can move on.

I met a man at an Ironman event I did this year....His name is Chris Mcdonnell. His daughter was killed at Sandy Hook last year. Something he said will stick with me for life. "You can go through life with the anger and bitterness and the unfairness of what happened but it will drag you into a black hole that you may never return from".

Choose not to live that life....If it was a deal breaker for you...set yourself free


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 767 | Registered: Jun 2011
TOMTEFAR
Member
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 4:07 AM, December 27th (Friday)

Long Gone...

I'm not saying to punish. I'm just saying that if you want to R you will forever be in a loopsided M. You need to learn to live with that as a BS. That's all.

But I'm all for showing real hard consequences. I'm not pro R or D It all depends on the situation. I'm all for filing for D early on to show the seriousness of the situation, you don't have to go through with it. I'm all for the WS having to work his/her a$$ off to help heal the BS.

But I'm not at all against R and I do not beleive in punishing the WS forever. I do however beleive that it is, for many BS, very difficult not to punish during the first couple of months after DDay and francly I Think the WS should accept that as long as the punishment doesn't get out of hand. The BS needs to let of steam realy bad and it's up to the WS to help with that. If the WS does it right the steam letting will be directed in a better and more constructive way.

I strongly beleive you need to realy dig into all the mess and let it out if you are gonna make R work and also make sure Another A doesn't happen again.

But then again that is just me...


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, December 27th (Friday)

I appreciate all POV's but I have no intention of punishing my wife. She is doing a much better job of it than I ever could. She has owned each and every issue, and has outed herself to just about everybody that matters.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, December 27th (Friday)

I appreciate all POV's but I have no intention of punishing my wife.

That^^^is laudable. Just remember that anger and grief are on the way. Sorry. You have to go through this shitstorm called infidelity. And no matter how you try to avoid these stages, you will have them. Again, sorry.

Mr. Happy and I are about 3 years past DD. I am not proud to say it but I punished Mr. Happy for about 2 years. No, it was not pretty. But I was devastated by his dishonesty and infidelity. That was my process. YMMV.

As time went on my mood mellowed and allowed me to come to grips with my 'New Normal'. My husband had another lover for about 5 years out of our 35 together. That was not pretty either! But we persevere.

The real reason that I am here today is because after DD, he never gave up on our marriage. I totally gave up, hell I left the family home for about 8 months! But he never lost sight of my healing and took all of my ire and saddness like a champ. Honestly, anything less would have sent me packing.

Yes I gave him divorce papers...that was when he went into overdrive to prove his love for me, only me.

His horrible choices sent me down the rabbit hole of depression and self hate. But I must say Mr. Happy has balls of steel to put up with what I was dishing out.

He surely bent our loving relationship, but we are still here, somehow it did not break. I feel that that is a testament to the strength of our love for each other.

We made it through. A lot of work, tears, anger, sadness, hugging, laughing, loving...we made it. And so will you.

((((((Bdell and Mrs. Bdell)))))


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Long Gone
Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, December 27th (Friday)

How is it lopsided if you forgive? If you rebuild a new marriage?


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 767 | Registered: Jun 2011
Jaxx
Member
Member # 31228
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, December 27th (Friday)

As far as proof she won't cheat again, there's no such thing. I am 3 years out from discovering that my wife had a five-year affair. I still don't trust her completely, but it is MUCH better than it was. I have a story from when I was a kid that illustrates the point I want to make, so bear with me.

My family was driving in the country along a paved highway. We came to a crossroads with a gravel road. We did not have a stop sign, but the gravel did. There was a pickup on the gravel stopped at the stop sign. Just as we got to the intersection, the pickup pulled out right in front of us, and we smashed into the side of it at close to 50 mph. Luckily no one got hurt, but from that day forward whenever we came to an intersection where there was a car waiting, I got VERY tense and my eyes were glued on that car. Traumatic experiences have a way of imprinting themselves on your brain this way. It's a survival trait. But I gradually lost that reaction after I went through hundreds of intersections and hundreds of cars didn't pull out in front of me. The human brain is very flexible that way.

How does this relate to your situation (and mine with my wife)? I have spent a lot of hours checking phone records and checkbook transactions. I have questioned by wife pretty closely when I feel suspicious. And so far every time my suspicions were not confirmed. The car didn't pull out and I didn't go smashing into it. As time goes on and your suspicions remain unjustified, it erodes your mistrust and pain. Eventually instead of a trauma that elicits pain, it becomes more of a fact. A piece of information. You still don't like it. In fact, you still hate it. But it no longer overwhelms you.

If you have had the experience in your past of having someone you loved break up with you, then you know what I mean. When it happens, the pain is immense. But time is a healer, and eventually it just becomes an item in the history of your life.

You are going through a traumatic experience, and from reading your posts it seems to me that you are having a pretty normal reaction to it. Overwhelming pain and anger. It's really raw and fresh for you right now. It's a struggle just to get through the day. There's a line from an old Peter Himmelman song called This Too Will Pass that really resonated with me when I was going through this: "Some days seem to drag on forever. You need all your strength just to keep your head together."

My advice to you is simply this: don't give in to despair. If there is one thing that we can guarantee in this life, it is change. Things always change, whether we like it or not. In good times, we don't want to think about this. But in bad times, it is comforting to know that no matter how bad it feels, it WILL NOT stay this way.

I didn't think I could go on with my wife. For a while I hated her and I very nearly divorced her. But she and I have a certain connection. A bond that I know I would have a hard time finding again. She is the mother of my children, and we have gone through a lot together. These things have value and meaning. With the benefit of hindsight, I can say that it might be a mistake to throw them away in the midst of all the pain and anger and trauma you are experiencing. These emotional states don't make for rational decisions, much less wise ones.

I'm sorry for how long this is. And I know that you may not be in a place where you can/want to hear this. But as one betrayed husband to another, I just really felt the need to reach out.


Married 30 yrs
Me BS
Her FWW
1st D-Day Jan 2006 EA
2nd D-Day 1-16-2011 LTPA
It gets better.

Posts: 183 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Minnesota
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:57 AM, December 28th (Saturday)

Jaxx, thank you and everybody else for their kind thoughts. Sometimes, like yesterday, I feel that reconciliation is the way to go. But at other time I feel that I should just cut my losses and divorce. I don't expect her to be perfect and I wouldn't be looking for perfection in a new partner, so it's not that my expectations are too high. It is the decision whether or not this affair is a deal breaker for me. On balance, we have had a very good marriage , overall. Until this issue, there haven't been too many crises, and none that we were not able to overcome. IDK if we can overcome this.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, December 28th (Saturday)

well Bdell, you caught up with me. And you did it very quickly. Your wife is remorseful, feels horrible, wants you in the worst way. You're pretty much over your anger.

The problem of course, is after your wife has been fucked by another guy, she doesn't really look so good anymore does she? She doesn't seem so special. After all, she was willing to let another man pound her, and she actually sought it out.

So you're left with, she's mostly been a good wife, but you know she's just not that special anymore. Maybe it would be better to divorce her with kindness and find someone who won't look for another dick when you aren't looking. That's pretty much where I am. and I don't like it. Not even a little.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, December 28th (Saturday)

Again the issue is why. She had an affair not an ONS; she didn't get drunk at a party and let a guy go too far, she planned and organized this 'event' and went back for more exciting sex. I don't know what other intimacies she shared with him, except not using a condom, which is well nigh unforgivable in my opinion.

Did she actually sleep with him, cuddled up overnight; did she shower with him; experience multiple O's. All these may help to explain why she cold-bloodedly betrayed you and help you to decide what the next step should be. Her explanations of loneliness, anxiety, depression shouldn't cause her to cheat in this manner.

She didn't confess, but did experience guilt as per her IC sessions. Does that make a difference? Tough choices ahead.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, December 28th (Saturday)

indeed Ok, indeed.

I can't speak for Bdell, although I think our stories may be similar.

in my case, I used to think that other men's wives cheated. I thought mine was special. I thought that whatever her faults were she would never cheat on me. she had too much integrity. she was mine. She loved me. i was waaaaaaay too important to her.

yeah....right

so now,no matter what she says about how sorry she is how it will never happen again, how she will die before she cheats again, I believe she believes it. but when i'm alone..... I know better. And when i'm alone, I think to myself I deserve better. I deserve someone new.

As you can no doubt tell, I don't know the answer Bdell.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, December 29th (Sunday)

OK and Mike, a lot of what you are saying might be true, but it might also be speculation based on your own situations. Now, IF, my wife was a sex-crazed, congenital liar then ALL of it is certainly true. But she isn't or at least never has been that I know of. What makes an intelligent, adult person go against everything that they hold dear? Is he better at sex than I am? Is his c**k bigger? Both of those ideas might be possible, or popular to speculate on, but are very highly unlikely. Our sex life has always been very hot and very creative, and my "junk" significantly larger than average, according to the studies I have recently read. In the upper 10%, according to most surveys. ( Imagine me having to research crap like this) This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off. Having to investigate things I NEVER in a million years thought I would ever have to deal with.
I also have read the transcripts of her IC sessions and she, multiple times, stated to her counselor that the sex was not very interesting (with only a couple of "O's" in the beginning and none after the first weekend) and was done to "keep him interested" and prolong their "relationship". She talks a lot about him being her "lifeline" and "escape" from her depressing life. Actually she talks much more about how much fun they had doing things, and how much better she felt because he helped her pass the "lonely hours". Frankly, I don't know which is worse to hear.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:43 AM, December 29th (Sunday)

but it might also be speculation based on your own situations

What other advice can we give?

What makes an intelligent, adult person go against everything that they hold dear?

Less than a year before my FWW's affair, her BFF had an affair that made the national news. Also, she attended a conference on the West coast where her roommate had an affair. In both situations, when discussing the situation, she literally gagged at points in the conversation. My FWW teaches ethics in her position at work. We had issues in our marriage due to my *little white lies*. If you get an answer that makes sense, please post it.

IF, my wife was a sex-crazed, congenital liar

How long did she withhold the truth?

We're here to help. We are not into slamming your wife. Most of us hope that R is the destination. However, ultimately, this site is about *surviving* infidelity. It ain't pretty and it isn't easy. 2-5 years is the most accepted timeline for recovery. Honesty is the largest part of R. You've had how many years of lies?

Bottom line, I know you've heard it before. *Take what you need, leave the rest.*

I think you're doing well brother. Keep posting.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2869 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
TOMTEFAR
Member
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 3:08 AM, December 29th (Sunday)

How is it lopsided if you forgive? If you rebuild a new marriage?

Because you can never forget. Forgiveness is great that is a crusial (how do you spell that?) for a successfull R.


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, December 29th (Sunday)

From your last post we can dismiss poor quality marital sex as the reason and its obvious you had a very strong marriage. So you have to accept that she was lonely with you being away and decided to have an affair to occupy her time. Even though you would be returning in a few months from your assignment and would be meeting her in Key West shortly for the anniversary celebration.

Wives who are lonely don't necessarily turn to other men for comfort; she has girl friends and a large family for instance. How about you were away and she saw an opportunity to have an exciting affair without fear of discovery, or having to face you at the end of the day after being with the OM. Its almost if the marriage had temporarily ceased to exist and she was a 'single' woman once more; at least for a few months.

So replace loneliness with an exciting opportunity with an attractive guy and we may be a bit nearer the truth. This was probably her last chance to do this. After you returned she would not cheat because her marriage was back and you would be a constant presence in her life. It was just a golden opportunity to have a sexual affair before settling down to a life of contented faithfulness. Her marriage was erased for a few months so she give herself totally to the OM, then it was over; an exciting experience to add to life's treasured memories. Except its turned into a horrible nightmare.

On the issue of trust, what if you need to be away for a few weeks/months in the future? Has she learned her lesson?

AT Christmas, right before this happened, she cried and pleaded for me to allow her to quit her job and come and stay with me. that she couldn't bare to be without me.

It could be when you said no to her request, she said well, on your own head be it; now I have justification for my proposed affair.
I suspect she was angry and rejected by your refusal to let her join you and that was the resentment fuel for her future, tragic actions.

[This message edited by OK now at 10:08 AM, December 29th (Sunday)]


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, December 29th (Sunday)

OK, what you are saying , I understand, but it presupposes a degree of ruthlessness that my wife simply doesn't possess. The last thing anyone would ever say about her is that she is cold-blooded or calculating in any way. From the transcripts and from her words, I'm beginning to understand that she was far more depressed than she ever let show. With no kids, a dying father and a husband away from home for who knew how long, I think that she lost herself to misery.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, December 29th (Sunday)

Bdell, I do not agree with some of the perspectives above.

if you read many of the WW threads, you will not find a rational, "hey now I have a chance to cheat", thought process. It is a gradual slide into an emotional quicksand.

it is entirely possible that your WW was looking for friendship, and once boundary protection systems were down, the OM suggested a physical relationship in order 'to get more close'. That is a pattern discussed the the much recommended book "Not Just Friends".

also, some here are piling on your WW for not confessing to you. This site is unique in dogmatically pushing the virtue of un-solicited confession after the A has been ended. Further, a lot of folks then take this issue as an aspect of 'true remorse'. The much recommended book "After the Affair" specifically cautions against confession for a WS that has ended an A and has recommitted. Not to mention a legion of ICs. Yes I would have appreciated my WW ending the A and confessing. But your WW sought out professional advice and took it. Do not allow yourself to tear her down for that choice which seems to be a possible outcome of some of the above perspectives.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, December 29th (Sunday)

MC Jack, I appreciate the posters giving me their opinions, but the ones who seem to be the most critical of my wife , are the ones whose own WS hasn't been as remorseful as they hoped that they would be. I condemn my wife for her affair, but I really need to learn much more than I know now, to make any kind of informed judgement. I don't have the answers yet, but I am determined to get them.
My wife was a great wife for 23 years, loyal, loving, and respectful. For 4 months she went completely out of character and had an affair. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is a myth.. There is no way that an honorable, loving spouse turns, virtually over night , into a depraved cheating wh*re. There MUST have been some pretty severe trauma or depression involved.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, December 29th (Sunday)

Bdell,

My WW is a recovering alcoholic.

To sum it up quickly, I had the ideal wife for 15+ years of marriage. She has congenital heart disease that she learned right after our marriage. She had major open heart surgery back in the early 2000s.

Post surgery, for quite some time, she had trouble digesting after meals. A friend innocently suggested a glass of wine during dinner to ease the muscles(she never drank at this point). It helps, so the pattern continues. Maybe a little more wine during dinner---add this to a potentially depressed person(like you, my WW didn't show this...or I was oblivious to it), and the path to destruction is underway.

After my Dday(s), and a long time afterwards, I wouldn't accept that one had anything to do with the other. I didn't want to accept any *excuse* that may have had a part of her decision to cheat.

But it did. And I am sure that your current assessment of your WW's mindset at the time is fairly accurate. Doesn't make things OK, but does give you a direction.

Personally, I think it is good to hear differing theories, like OK mentioned. It helps us look where we may not have looked before. It is all part of the fact-finding mission that you hoped you would never have to endure.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, December 29th (Sunday)

Adultery is a commonly seen as the biggest betrayal in a marriage. For a happily married woman to allow another man to place his penis inside her body and ejaculate, tells us that she is likely in the grip of profound resentment, so I was suggesting looking for that resentment as a reason for her adultery.

It seems possible that she was deeply hurt by your refusal to allow her to join you in your job location and take a sabbatical from her work. It may seem to her that you didn't miss her as much as she missed you; she felt an intense rejection. this may have weakened the bonds of loyalty enough to permit her cheating.

Otherwise, what can you say. She got depressed and lonely for you so she decided an affair was just the ticket to lift her spirits?
I believe your wife is too good of a person to cheat for such a puerile reason.

80 - 90% of women cheat because of a strong resentment against the BH according to various surveys. Posts in JFO seem to support this. All I was trying to say was look for the resentment in your wife's adultery. Its a reason that makes sense, while saying she was temporarily unhinged by loneliness is no explanation at all.

I hope you will reconcile as your wife deserves it for her intense remorse. Along with others I remain supportive of you in your quest to make sense of what happened and come to terms with your wife's one-time betrayal.

[This message edited by OK now at 6:41 PM, December 29th (Sunday)]


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, December 29th (Sunday)

You've already said it yourself,
"From the transcripts and from her words, I'm beginning to understand that she was far more depressed than she ever let show. With no kids, a dying father and a husband away from home for who knew how long, I think that she lost herself to misery."

That's enough to drive anyone over the edge.

Personally, I think your one very lucky man.
You have a WW that's remorseful and is trying to do everything she can to make up for the terrible choice she made.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, December 29th (Sunday)

I too hope you reconcile. I believe we are all human and everyone deserves forgiveness. I'm just sharing my struggles. I definitely have a remorseful wife. She has literally begged me not to leave her. And it bothers me. I ask myself, if I'm so important, why did you do it? there doesn't seem to be an answer that is reasonable. curiosity? insecurity? seeking affirmation? I've come to the conclusion that she was seeking affirmation for her attractiveness, not love, and that she thought there was no chance she would get caught. So in her mind, what was the downside?

Pretty selfish. but in her mind, what I don't know can't really hurt me. Now, needless to say, she is ashamed of herself, nearly suicidal, and not very fun to be around.

My point to you Bdell, is that you may swing back and forth for quite some time. I do. Maybe you can get over her affair. but I noticed, you posted a thread about having an open marriage. So maybe you realize that perhaps your marriage is forever changed after all.

I wouldn't have an open marriage. If I stay with my wife, I don't want to watch her go out on dates. and I really don't want two women in my life. I'm not a cheater.

My problem, and if you follow my trajectory, is that my opinion of my wife is forever changed. I'm not sure I can get over the betrayal.

I won't say that I hope you can. I will say that I hope the best for you, whatever that may be.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:47 AM, December 30th (Monday)

I am beginning to understand the task ahead of me, if I choose to reconcile, and it's pretty daunting to be sure. I think that I will come to realize that there was no one, single, reason for her actions but an accumulation of causes. Loneliness, depression, fear, resentment, and poor coping skills all played their part in the choices she made. My wife is (normally) a very moral, intelligent, attractive, and loving woman. Seeing her as she is now, a complete wreck, begging for scraps of love, trying to remake her self image, is hard to take.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, December 30th (Monday)

I was struck by one thing the counselor said to me during one of our talks. My wife has never had to face any serious life-altering crisis without her support network. My wife's support network is me, her parents and sister, our kids, and her few friends. Of that network, I was gone most of the time, her father was dying and so her mother and sister were understandably focused on him, our kids were gone, and of her friends, her best female friend is my Buddy's wife and she had moved and the couple of other friends aren't close enough for her to confide in. Any port in a storm.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:06 AM, December 30th (Monday)

Guys and Gals, I want all of you to know that I will NEVER cheat on my wife. No "open marriage", no "ONS'S", no revenge affairs. I will either reconcile or end it.
But , I am thinking I could really use some "me time" away from all of the distractions and drama. I am thinking that a 4 or 5 day fishing trip to FL. might be in order. My wife is going to my Buddy's house to spend some time with his wife. so......why not?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 2:15 AM, December 30th (Monday)

I think that I will come to realize that there was no one, single, reason for her actions but an accumulation of causes. Loneliness, depression, fear, resentment, and poor coping skills all played their part in the choices she made. My wife is (normally) a very moral, intelligent, attractive, and loving woman.

Exactly. I break it down into the following categories:

1. Poor personal boundaries (someone that violates their own personal morals and beliefs): of which depression, fear, and coping skills play a major role

2. Emotional needs going unmet: such as loneliness and resentment

3. Poor emotional intimacy/communication (sharing your hopes, dreams, and fears with your spouse): your wife did not feel comfortable coming to you with her emotional suffering and instead sought out an affair as a way of escaping her pain and/or finding happiness.

Once you come to grips with the above, you will have a better understanding of what went wrong and why your wife made the poor choices she did. For R to succeed, at some point you will need to find a way to overcome the pain and anger, and replace it with compassion and loving-kindness. Some of that change will need to come from your wife, but a lot of it will also depend on you.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5667 | Registered: Aug 2007
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:44 AM, December 30th (Monday)

I agree with a lot of this. She told the IC that she felt that she couldn't add to my burden, with her problems. I was working 7 days a week with one 3 day weekend off every month, trying to get home in the soonest time possible. Everything HAD to work like clockwork, or I was faced with having to be permanently assigned out of state. The pressure was enormous, but if I had known how bad things were for her, I would have quit and found another local job. It would have meant great financial hardships for a while but it would have been better than this sh*tstorm.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, December 30th (Monday)

I think that you ought to go and take some time for yourself. It might help you to clear your head, give you some relief, and allow you to decompress a bit. I found the times that I could be by myself, think at my own pace, and just allow life to happen around me were really restful and productive times. Take some "you" time. I think that you''ll probably gain some clarity from it.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4857 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, December 30th (Monday)

I think a weeks fishing trip to Florida is just the ticket; some time away from your wife and her misery, which of course triggers your pain.

Maybe you will come with answer as to your way forward and how to deal with your wife's codependency. The sad thing about all this is hearing what a first-rate excellent marriage you had and it was still tainted with adultery. Apparently no-one's relationship is safe from cheating.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, December 30th (Monday)

I am beginning to understand the task ahead of me, if I choose to reconcile, and it's pretty daunting to be sure. I think that I will come to realize that there was no one, single, reason for her actions but an accumulation of causes. Loneliness, depression, fear, resentment, and poor coping skills all played their part in the choices she made. My wife is (normally) a very moral, intelligent, attractive, and loving woman. Seeing her as she is now, a complete wreck, begging for scraps of love, trying to remake her self image, is hard to take.

I like this, a lot. I like a lot of your recent posts. I wasn't posting because we hadn't quite hit it off, and I'd rather be silent than seem unsupportive to a newly discovered BS.

However, I see a lot of love in your more recent posts, and while you are so right - it is a very hard road if you reconcile, it can be well worth it. If you love your spouse, and you believe what you say regarding this being a black mark on a very good record, you may want to give it serious consideration.

And definitely take that fishing trip. Why not? It'll help clear your head and get some perspective away from all of this, and it will be relaxing for you too.

Good luck Bdell. I sincerely hope things work out well for you.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Well, I am definitely going fishing. Perhaps the last week of January. I have to finish up some things first.
My wife and I are going to my Buddie's house for New Years, and then she is going to stay for a week or so to catch her breath, and relax. Sometimes we BS's don't realize that the WS (if remorseful) is usually in pretty bad shape as well. Couple that with her Mom's illness and the kids rejection, and she needs a little TLC too.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Content  Posted: 1:10 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Painfulpast, Contrary to popular belief, I'm not a vindictive hard ass. LOL Just a man trying to navigate my way through unfamiliar territory. I'm sorry if I lashed out at you or anybody else, or became defensive. I'm trying really, really, really hard to maintain my equilibrium, for my family's sake, and to make the best decisions I can, for all of us, yes....even my wife.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:45 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Well, I've barely scratched the surface of my wife's actions, but I have , I think, gotten to the bottom of why she didn't confess , at the time. After numerous conversations with her and the OM and his wife and both the Office Manager of the counseling service and my wife's original IC, I pretty much know the timeline and reasons behind her decision not to confess. When she ended the PA in March, the OM begged her not to tell, citing the damage it would do to his business and the possible racial fallout and possible violence that might have resulted . (Please remember that he didn't know me and was worried that I might be a redneck, lol)
Certainly, he was also in self preservation mode, with regards to letting his wife know, as well. He is a real piece of work, ain't he? Totally selfish. My wife's opinion of him, NOW, is pretty bad, especially now that he has tossed her to the wolves to save himself.
FRom the transcripts and from questioning the IC with the Office manager present, it appears that she (IC) told my wife numerous times, to never tell me, "bear her burden" and look to the future. Meaning that she (wife) should work on her issues , by herself, and that would be the best way to atone for her affair and save our marriage. I expressed myself pretty strongly and negatively about this to the Office Manager, and as a result, this IC will not be allowed to see clients involving infidelity, until she has received additional training, especially regarding the needs of Betrayed Spouses.
Both the Office Manager and the IC have sent me written letters of apology and have scheduled my wife for counseling with the Office Manager, herself. I believe that I posted that the Office Manage , herself, has experienced infidelity in her marriage (BS) and I also want to say that she (Office Manager) has been A++++++++ in every way, since I first talked to her.
So what I have come up with, is that my wife's first inclination was to confess, but she was talked out of it by everybody else involved. For totally selfish reasons on the part of the OM, but for honest, therapeutic reasons by the IC.
My wife also said that , to be honest, she was afraid to confess, for fear of losing me, so she went along. She feels extremely guilty for this, as well.
So that issue seems to be laid to rest. Hey, by the time I'm 75 I might be able to say that I know what the fuck is going on. YAAAAY!

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Lola88
Member
Member # 41540
Default  Posted: 3:59 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

I've followed your posts from the start Bdell and feel your pain as a BS who was totally blindsided recently.

I don't have advice to offer, just wanted to say I truly hope things work out for you. Enjoy your trip and here's wishing you the clarity and peace you need.

Happy New Year to you and yours (((hugs)))


Posts: 127 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: UK
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Thank you, Lola. It helps to know that I have some people who are in my corner.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
lqqk4answ
New Member
Member # 41662
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, January 1st (Wednesday)

I needed somebody I could trust to act as a sounding board for my feelings. I can't do this alone.

Unlike some of us, you don't have to do this alone! You have a WS who is ripe to doing it with you all the way, in fact she has done all you have asked, including some of which I and others consider overboard -- but we do understand the overboard as we have been there too!

When my wife said she could go out with whomever she wanted and I couldn't stop her, I trembled, I was angry, and I said you do then don't come home! All that did was shut her down permantly. My point is your anger, both of your pain (trust me she is in great pain too), the betrayal, the trauma, that is normal and the emotions are understandable, but just as she is accountable for her actions, you are also accountable for yours! I say that as I wish I hadn't said what I said, that is on me, I should have said lets talk about this, but my emotions got in the way, still do as she continues to see OM (since divorced).

What I think about is 30 years of marriage -- do I want to throw that away? We had a great marriage and relationship except for this. If you want to toss 27 years way, basically a third of your life, that is your business, to me a third of my life was too precious to just simply dump on the junk pile without trying to first see If I could make it work. If my wife displayed the same remorse as your wife, I would actually be happy as I would know I could.

Another thing I think about is me as I was honest, understanding, happy, entertaining, outgoing, lovable guy ... why should I let what her do change me? Ow trust me I feel the same as you, wondering if the past 30 years was just one big lie, wondering if I should have a DNA done on eldest son as we had some issues at that time and he isn't like "me". But you know what, I'm not going to let my emotions get the best of me and change "ME" -- I'm not going that ogre that I feel like being. When I think of being the ogre, I think of my wedding vow, what I promised, to love honor and cherish -- that wouldn't be honorable nor cherish. I also think about to forsake all others -- that means you don't let any others come between you and your wife, not you parents, not your kids, not friends -- it means NO OTHERS. Ow yes, I understand my wife did that, I understand I feel revengeful, but I don't need to be a lessor person so can't let my emotions turn me into a lessor person (irrational behaviors), I must let logic and reason (rational behaviors) dictate my course. By so doing, I will rest in peace knowing I did all I could to save the marriage, that I didn't fail my wife, my family, and I can take great pride in that.

I read the thread with interest -- you wife was opposite of mine as she accepted her actions as wrong, she was remorseful, she told you everything (no TT for you), nor gas lighting, the continued relationship, nor the continued deceit, the lies of omission or half truths, then blame shifting, and I could go on. While know one will say the PA is a good thing, it is over in your case, you have the truth, your wife is doing all you ask so you can heal and move forward. Ow I do know what it means to heal alone -- you are not in that position, yet! Of course you can't change the past, but you are in a great position for the future as you and your wife are in a perfect position to heal together and R ... she wants to, she is willing, the question is do you really want to end the marriage ... It will be you ending it!

Someone posted earlier that most affairs are the result of problems in the marriage. what I have read leads me to a great many great marriages never ever thought a affair could even remotely happen but sh#t does happen -- no marriage is immune!

The way I see it, yea, you can get out of marriage and no one will blame you due to what happened, particular if it was a bad marrage as you found the excuse you were waiting for. OR, if the marriage is overall good, you can R, be the hero (certainly is isn't her right?), have even a stronger marriage, and prove to your wife you are the understanding loving person she married, in turn, your wife will show you she *IS* also the person you married -- she has a real need to do so!

BTW, IMHO, everyone makes mistakes, you have, she has, that is the reality. But what is important is how couples work through the mistakes. You can take what I say with a grain of salt, don't care as I'm still dealing with the sh#t and frankly would rather be in your situation then mine -- almost jealous! I believe the folks here are trying to be being truly honest, because they have been traumatized being on the opposite end -- they know how it feels! They are offering up their experience, it is golden, feel fortunate you found SI! They are only trying to help and support those going through what is likely the most difficult time of their lives, because they have and they know! Bottom line is they want nothing more then to truly help you through this!

Lastly, sorry so long, but I needed to give perspective (hope I did). I do wish you the best of luck in whatever way you chose -- it is your choice and the one you have to live with! And sorry as nobody should ever have to face such trauma! Good luck!


D-Day: 5 Dec 2012
NC date: waiting
Me, BS, 57 years
WW, 53 years
Married 30 years at time.

Posts: 31 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NM
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, January 2nd (Thursday)

I would like to point out to everybody who are telling me how wonderful my wife is behaving and how remorseful she is, that she has had 4 years to process her feelings about the affair and to get her side of the story "down pat". I have had 2 weeks or so. So even though she is doing everything possible to regain my trust, and was a good wife prior to this happening, she still practiced deception for 4 years. I do not think I am asking too much that she prove or verify everything she says or does, until we either divorce or I forgive her enough to give her another chance.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
lqqk4answ
New Member
Member # 41662
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

you said:

"I do not think I am asking too much that she prove or verify everything she says or does, until we either divorce or I forgive her enough to give her another chance." You really think that is all you are asking of her?

First, I don't think anyone has a problem with that as that as that is a reasonable request. It is also reasonable *you* know every single detail. it would be reasonable if you GPS her, monitor phone and email accounts etc or what ever is needed to restore trust. But you went beyond that and only kidding yourself if that is all you think you are asking of her.

As I said, just as you hold her accountable for her actions, and you should, you are accountable for your actions.

Telling her she has to tell your kids, the tears in their eyes, that emotional drain on them, that was what you told your wife you wanted of them, and she did it for you. You are responsible and accountable for their emotional upheaval. Ask yourself what it accomplish? Ask yourself what harm to them was caused. All you did was make the kids feel the hurt you were feeling -- that is wrong! You know you don't tell the kids everything, you protect them from harm.

You ask her to tell your parents, frankly your marriage is non of their business -- you vowed to forsake ALL others and that includes your parents. You knew your mom would be angered, face it, that is exactly what you wanted. But that was your emotions speaking, the the rational. And again you are responsible and accountable for the rift with your parents because that is what you asked your wife to do -- it is not her fault she did what you asked.

Don't you see what you are doing? You are letting your emotions get the better of you -- you simply are not thinking rational! You want everyone to feel the pain you are feeling. Ow I know that pain, we all do here, and yea it is simply horrible. No one should ever have to endure that and I wish it on no one! Sorry you are going through that, but I also know you have to reach deep and get a hold of your rational side.

You received excellent advice here, to tell your parents only that you are having some difficulties in your marriage. You chose to ignore that advice and go for the kill. So did it make you happy? what problem did it really solve? How are you going to rebuild all the bridges you burned when it's time to reconcile (R)?

Look, we understand the wave of emotions you are going through, we have all been there and some for more. Some are still dealing with on-going affairs, repeat affairs, double betrayals, etc. Mine is ongoing and I wanted to out my wife to our kids and her family too. But that is emotional because it solves nothing and only expands the problem. See, it is no longer you and your wife that that need IC, you and your wife that needs MC, but now the kids need IC too.

There is a time and place for everything. Should you file for D and go there (less then half that file carry through), that would be the time to explain, with you and your wife, that she betrayed you and you can't live with that, that it had nothing to do with them. That would be the reasonable thing to do in the right time an place.

She did wrong, we understand that, but you are doing wrong, and we understand that too. But more so, everyone is here to help and support you -- we wouldn't be helping if we didn't tell you how it is!


D-Day: 5 Dec 2012
NC date: waiting
Me, BS, 57 years
WW, 53 years
Married 30 years at time.

Posts: 31 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NM
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

Look, we understand the wave of emotions you are going through, we have all been there and some for more. Some are still dealing with on-going affairs, repeat affairs, double betrayals, etc. Mine is ongoing and I wanted to out my wife to our kids and her family too. But that is emotional because it solves nothing and only expands the problem. See, it is no longer you and your wife that that need IC, you and your wife that needs MC, but now the kids need IC too.

t/j

Bdell is very new to this, and he handled it how he thought best.

Since you believe that we aren't helping if we don't tell the truth - you should be telling your children and your/her parents. Your wife is actively cheating. Your children are very much aware there is a major problem in the home, and your wife is in a cloudy fog. There is something called a 'scorched earth' practice that says that you out an affair to EVERYONE - it breaks the false notion of the A by shedding light on it.

Yes, many here told Bdell that he was acting out of revenge and not out of anyone's best interest, but he was a very new BS and we all do things that we may or may not later regret. We don't know - Bdell may have done the right thing in the end.

Here is the difference - Bdell's wife's A ended 4 years ago. There was nothing to end, or out so that the truth would be out there and light would shine on the A. In your case, you are keeping her secret by hiding it. Your wife wants to cheat, and she should feel the full consequences of this. Telling others of an A generally stops the 'dreamy' aspect of it, because the WS must now face everyone telling them how disgusting it is, and they wake up in almost all cases. You have decided to do the opposite, and yet you are here telling another what they did is wrong. Odd.

Yes, we have all been hurt, but please don't tell another that is so new, so fresh, that all they are doing is 'wrong'. The majority here would say the same to you, but we are here to support, not to condemn.

Bdell has changed is attitude a great deal since Dday, and he is learning how to process the information he has received, as are you. It takes time to adjust to being a BS.

end t/j


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

I'm sorry if I lashed out at you or anybody else, or became defensive.

No apology necessary. Being a new BS is unbelievably hard, and honestly for about a week or so I think we are all in some 'nightmare' state where we keep thinking we'll wake up. We do what we think is best, but we have no idea what that is.

This takes time. You are right - your wife has had 4 years to adjust to this, you've had 2 weeks.

I think you're doing really well, considering. I think your wife's willingness to be honest, and her remorse, is helping. Yes, that doesn't mean you should be singing her praises. I'm jut thinking that her remorse must, on some level, comfort you.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

Bdell,
Yes your wife has had 4 years to process, and this is very new and hurtful to you, as it was for me.

What you are going through is the worst experience of your life, it will have some ups and many gut wrenching downs.

However, your wife was remorseful shortly after her affair. It should never had started, but she did end it without being caught, she sought professional help and wanted to tell you then. You have already confirmed that the help she received was wrong which caused the deception for 4 years.

You also stated how much she had tried to improve your relationship over the past 4 years, even though you never suspected anything was wrong.

I know exactly how you feel, my wife is remorseful now. However she kept this from me, essentially a lie for 32 years! She never went for professional help, she didn't even say anything when we got married, or had our 3 children. I told my wife on New Years eve, this has been the worse year of my life, all she could say is we will try to make the next one better.

Your wife made a very bad decision which should never have happened, however from what I see, she certainly has been shouldering her part in reconciling your marriage.

Good luck, this is a very long process, many twists and turns.


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

Iqqk, thank you for your opinion, but I think that I understand my situation better than you do. I simply don't understand why you or anyone who has been the victim of infidelity would advocate even more secrecy? It seems to me that you would want an open and honest marriage instead of a marriage of shadows and deceit. And except for telling the kids (which I explained the reasons for), she has done all of the telling. I haven't had to pin the Scarlett letter on her,she has done the pinning herself.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

PFP and Alback, My wife is indeed doing the majority of the "grunt" work, and I do appreciate it. Especially when it is something that I had not even thought about. I DO understand that there were mitigating circumstances regarding telling me about the affair, back when it happened, and that she thought , at the time , that she was doing the right thing.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

BTW. Iqqk, how old do you think I am? A third of my life? Do you think I'm in my 80's? I'm only a little over 1/2 that. Don't make me feel older than I do already.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
workindad
New Member
Member # 41790
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

Bdell good luck fishing. I hope you catch a boat load.

Your wife has had years to process this. You have not. Frankly you are handling this much better than I would expect given the newness of the situation from your perspective.

If you do decide to give your wife the gift of reconciliation I hope she appreciates it. I also hope history does not repeat itself. During her last stressful time she was cheating on you and having unprotected sex with another man. Hopefully she is not falling in to that temptation again given her current stress level. Hopefully she has built some effective boundaries and will communicate honestly with you this go around as you could expect her counselor to advise her to not tell you of any additional or new cheating episodes.

Do you have other options for counselors in your area. Perhaps you could find one that advocates honesty in a marriage.


Posts: 16 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

PFP and Alback, My wife is indeed doing the majority of the "grunt" work, and I do appreciate it. Especially when it is something that I had not even thought about. I DO understand that there were mitigating circumstances regarding telling me about the affair, back when it happened, and that she thought , at the time , that she was doing the right thing.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

Sorry, double post

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)

I don't think anyone is advocating secrecy. When it comes to telling the other BS, then it's a given, but when it comes to children, parents, friends, neighbors, then comes the gray lines.

There are some details you just do not share with certain people. I think in the early stages, it is best to err on the side of caution. You can always take out a billboard later when things are calmer.


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8099 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, January 3rd (Friday)

K9, my reasons for telling those people that have been told are , to my mind, very good ones. I told my kids because they are adults and have a right to know the reason for their parents dysfunction, why the holidays were as they were, and also as an early method of gauging my wife's remorse and intent. I told my Buddy and his wife, because I NEEDED somebody to talk to that I can trust. The position my wife SHOULD have occupied, herself. I told my Dad for the same reason and because I know I can count on his good judgement and wisdom. I knew that eventually my Mom would know that something was up, so I knew I could leave it in Dad's hands to tell her about the situation and to deal with her anger and prevent her from becoming verbally abusive to my wife. One of the first things I learned is that if you are dealing with a crisis, you need a good support network, and I am trying to build that network, one piece at a time. I firmly believe that if I had not told the people I did, our marriage would already be over and she would be sitting on the curb.
Conversely, I also realized that the WS needs a support network too. By telling her sister, her Pastor, and getting to the bottom of the IC fiasco, and getting it re-started on a better footing, so that she is getting competent counseling, would provide her with positive support and would insure that her issues and needs are given due consideration. People who are saying that I am "punishing" my wife are as off base as you can get. All that I have done already has been to make sure that everybody's interest are being protected, including my wife's.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, January 3rd (Friday)

I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm a mechanical engineer. But I have a lot of experience at problem solving. Adultery is a problem, a big, horrible, love-killing problem. But a problem, nevertheless. To solve it , you first need to identify the problem (s), study all aspects of the problem, Make the best possible plan to solve the problem , be sure that you have the proper tools and people to solve the problem, then solve the problem, making sure that the solution benefits the greatest number of people possible. This is how I will proceed.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, January 3rd (Friday)

Bdell - I've got a PhD in structural engineering. Nice to know I'm not the only engineer on here! That said, problem solving skills don't work with this crap my friend. All this crap defies logic completely and it is unpredictable.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, count your blessings that your wife is so remorseful. Based on everything you've said in this thread, if anyone was ever deserving of a second chance, it's her.

Hang in there man, and go fishing! I'm planning to go south sometime this winter myself.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, January 3rd (Friday)

I am a (recovering) engineer as well...i have been in a lot of grad programs, but my M.E. undergrad experience seems to stick.

just a note here about problem definition....

Reality is correct - an affair is something you can not fix. If you are defining the problem as these choices of your WW from a long ago state of mind, you will be never solve the problem, because it does not really exist any more. Not to mention it was irrational at the time.

If you are defining the problem as your own heart, or learning to forgive, then maybe you have a chance.

good luck,

Jack


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, January 3rd (Friday)

Geez, I don't know whether it is a good thing or a bad one , that there are so many "mechanics" here on SI. Are we prone to this sort of thing?
Realitystinks, I love fishing the channels in Fl. It's like Forrest Gump, you never know what you're going to catch. I've tentatively set the last week in Jan. for the trip. My wife asked if she could come along. IDK about that. Isn't the point of the trip for me to get some "me time"?
MJ, I am defining the problem as "what to do now?" I know that I want to have my ducks lined up, so whether/if I decide to D or R, I will have done my best for all concerned.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, January 3rd (Friday)

If I were you, I'd take your WW along.

She wants to prove that she really is trying to be what she should have been, a good loving wife.
And wasn't being seperated part of the problem in the first place?

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 1:52 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, January 3rd (Friday)

If I were you, I'd take your WW along.

She wants to prove that she really is trying to be what she should have been, a good loving wife.

Separation is one of the mitigating factors in this mess. I get that you are really angry. So at times it will be like sleeping with the ememy.

Separation was an issue with Mr. Happy and I. We both work on call and have to take the jobs as they come. Mr. Happy did not have the moral fortitude to hang on.

So after DD he stuck to me like glue. Weather I liked it or not. LOL!

We did alot of traveling and I must say he put up with a lot of my ire and anger.

We are still standing. And I think his insistence of sticking by me no matter how he repulsed me was good for us both.

Maybe she can come down after a few days of you being alone...?

Maybe.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
RealityStinks
Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, January 3rd (Friday)

Bdell -
Up to you on taking her with you.

If I had a similar situation where my WW royally screwed up years ago, fixed her issues, tried to spare my feeling and carried the burden on her own (I know that's debatable, but I believe that's what she was doing based on what you've said), and had been a good wife, friend, and partner since, I would take her with me.

Man, I know you're hurt, mad, sad, angry, and every other emotion right now. You have every right to kick her to the curb. But, what's to say your next significant other won't do the same thing? She's proven for years at this point that she'll remain faithful to you. She deserves credit for that.

Brother, I think you've got a good one. I'm not trying to excuse what she did, but she's handled all this in a manner that many of us wish that our WS had.

I've spoken to my wife, who I love very much, 4 times since the weekend before Thanksgiving. I've only laid eyes on her twice. I love her just as much as you love your wife, the difference is, mine doesn't give a shit about me. Yours obviously still does. Count your blessings about that.

If she wants to go fishing with you, take her with you. There's nothing that says you have to punish her for what she did. I know you want to, and I understand that. But, you're wasting your life by holding on to the anger and resentment. You need to deal with your hurt and anger for sure. It does not need to be swept under the rug. But, man, take hold of your wife's hand, and let her help you get past this and move on with your life. Easier said than done, I know.

Last point: it seems to me that the best way to "punish" her is to love her. Show her what she was willing to throw away. She seems to have a conscience, something that seems to be missing in several other people's spouses, so loving her will do more to "punish" her than yelling at her, leaving her at home, or trying to humiliate her ever will (not saying that you have done any of that).

Hang in there man.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, January 3rd (Friday)

Just checking in with YOU. How are you doing? I think that, because you come across as being strong and focused, we might tend to forget to ask you how YOU are doing. Are you taking care of yourself? Are you sleeping well? Are you having problems with mind-movies? Remorseful or not (and my FWH was extremely remorseful), I know that I still had panic attacks, PTSD flashbacks, nightmares, and times when I just couldn''t function. Yes, he was there with me, holding me, apologizing, and doing what he could, but this was still my reality.

So, how are you doing?


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4857 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, January 3rd (Friday)

Here is what I've tentatively decided on. I still require the DNA tests and polygraph. No, I don't believe she cheated any other time, but I also said that I need proof from her, so I will take her with me, if we can get these things out of the way. She is OK (more than OK) with this and is already looking up polygraph administrators and getting swabs from the kids. I know many of you think I'm being harsh with her, but she is on board with it. She seems more than willing to do anything for my peace of mind.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, January 5th (Sunday)

I think you are doing great Bdell.

And you are not punishing your wife, you are showing her real consequences from her affair.

You do what it takes to heal and restore trust in the relationship.

I know you are weighing the PROs and CONs of your marriage.

Take your time.

And if you do take your wife fishing, it is ok to let her bait your hooks but please do not use her as bait......

HM


Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, January 5th (Sunday)

Bdell,

There is a big difference between being harsh and being punitive.

Like you stated, you are gathering information, and working through the processes. And from that, your wife is facing, and dealing with, her consequences.

That seems logical to me.

Also, I majored in M.E., but chose to work in a small family business---yet my wife still cheated on me. Maybe it is the engineering mindset....


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, January 6th (Monday)

Sometimes I just can't help it, but lash out at her. We were going over her timeline, this morning and she was telling me about their first "makeout" session in January, and I got pretty nasty with her. Name calling, etc. I don't want to be this way, but sometimes it really get to me. She cried and told me how much she loved me, but it doesn't seem to do much good. I asked her where that love was while she was giving her c*nt to another man. I don't see how any WS can honestly say that they truly love and respect their BS. Today it seems like a lost cause. Sometimes just looking at her makes me want to puke.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 6th (Monday)

I don't see how any WS can honestly say that they truly love and respect their BS.

Love maybe, but respect no. There is nothing a WS can do that is so lacking in respect than having sex with an OP. Such an incredible intimate act that should be exclusive to their life partner, given away to a virtual stranger. Grunting, sweating and copulating in a seedy motel room; how insulting.

I sometimes wonder if we ever fully reconcile; maybe time acts like a merciful anesthetic and stops us focussing so much on the betrayal. We accept and move on.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, January 6th (Monday)

Sometimes I just can't help it, but lash out at her.

I think it is important to separate out expressing your anger versus "punishment." Too often they combined into a single category.

You are still new to this, the anger is hanging out near the surface. You are not a robot, you are going to have outburst of anger. You can apologize for the way you said it, but being angry is 100% normal and understandable.

Punishment comes later. When you keep dredging things years later just to hurt your W, yes that isn't healthy. Understandable, but not healthy. Just trying to get the anger out so you can be a little more objective is important. The more humble your W is and the more she doesn't get defensive the less outbursts you will have. If they aren't diminishing on their own, then get some help learning how to process them in a less damaging way. Whe I speak of damage I mean to yourself. Anger is very damaging emotion to your own mental stability and physical health.

You are just around a month out from Dday. While it is important to not always express your anger in an attacking manner, you have to deal with it or it will deal with you. You deal with how you know how. That is fine and again 100% normal.

Part of a WS showing that they care (read actions) is bearing witness to the emotions their actions have caused. Humility is being shown, but dealing with the consequences of ones actions is important to "owning your fecal matter." Moreso important for a BS to see that they really must want to work this out. If they did not, they could easily give up or get defensive. It can be faked for awhile, but impossible to fake forever.

Learning to cope with anger in a less confrontational way is a work in progress, not something you just "find." Dribs and drabs you learn it.

At one month out, I was a monster. I am not saying that it was OK, but it needed to be processed before I could move on. I had to learn to express the words without screaming, name calling or worse. It is something you have to figure out on your own and probably with a gifted counselor.

The thing is Bdell decisions made in anger are usually not the best ones. Just keep that in mind.

FWIW I think if your W wants to go on the fishing trip with you, agree to take her along. It gives you the opportunity to have her with you if you need to talk or if you need "some space," she can do something else.

It also could be a chance to take a break from the hurt. Just be together. I know it is hard, but it just gives you a little break together to just be. Call it an armistice. A couple of hours, a day, whatever. Give it a try. You need breaks from this to preserve what is left of your sanity.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, January 6th (Monday)

How does a WS turn respect for their Spouse on and off like a light switch? I would also like posters to tell me if they are BS or WS. Sometimes the descriptions at the bottom are misleading.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, January 6th (Monday)

Also , where can I ask WS their opinions? I could really use some insight into their thinking.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, January 6th (Monday)

There is a thread in the I Can Relate forum, BS questions for WS. You can post your questions there.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3872 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, January 6th (Monday)

We are all BS's since Wayward spouses cannot post in JFO.

Maybe you need some time alone on this fishing trip. Think things over and try and work out why she would do this to a happy marriage.

You made an interesting comment about the WS turning respect on and off. I think its turned off by resentment and anger about a situation in the marriage. The resentment lowers respect and initiates justification for exploring other relationships.
The respect is turned back on again when the resentment disappears because of changing circumstances. Thats when the guilt appears.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, January 6th (Monday)

OK now, you might have something, here. There were a couple of comments she made to him during the affair, that she told the IC about. Apparently they argued a lot during the A. Once the OM complained about my wife not making time for him and she said to him that he was nothing but a substitute husband and substitute man , to her. Another time, right before the physical affair ended, she said that she hated him, herself and me. Sounds like a lot of resentment, don't you think?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, January 6th (Monday)

When I think of all that will have to happen, in order to make our marriage work, I am very discouraged. I don't know if I will ever be able to love my wife again. I don't know if I will even want to touch her again. I do not deserve to have this hanging over my life forever.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, January 6th (Monday)

I believe that the reason for the affair is the key issue; from that information you can decide whether to reconcile or not.
There seem to be 3 truths:
1] The 'truth' from the WS, which is often an exercise in damage control. Nowhere close to reality.
2] The 'truth' we settle for, such as depression, anxiety, coupled with the need for validation brought on by this stress. More bullsh*t
3 The real truth. Just what was going through the WS mind when this affair was planned and organized. The WS seldom discloses this truth because its frankly unpalatable, bordering on unacceptable. Its often very primitive and doesn't reflect well on the WS for using it as a justification. A shameful process better not disclosed.

The large majority of affairs are initiated because of marital resentment, fueling the necessary justification for cheating. Just what was going through your WW's mind when she planned her affair? What resentment did she use to start her affair? Was she trying to punish you for an observed failing? If sexual desire and excitement at the idea of screwing an exotic asian guy were at the root of her actions, then how did she justify this? You had abandoned her in spite of her pleas for help in her isolation and pain; you had put money first?

Search for the ugly truth hidden in undisclosed resentment and you may find out just what petty reason was used to start her affair. I firmly believe that some WS's who state they have no idea why they had an affair are actually refusing to disclose their reason. Just ask them to analyze what was going through their mind during the birth of their illicit relationship; their thought processes and justification used. They would rather pull their own teeth than tell you why; much easier to say I was depressed, blame FOO issues, childhood abuse , death of a parent etc., and hide the actual sordid reasons explained by emotional resentment.

I finally got my FWH to tell me the true justification for him starting his affair. It was submerged anger at the excessive attention I was giving my children and the 60 lbs extra weight I had gained over the previous 5 years. Its not what he originally told me; I got severe work related stress as the reason, rendering him incapable of resisting the flirtation of a co-worker. Sounds better than you turned into a fat slob who couldn't hold a candle to the sexy bod of the OW tramp. The truth is indeed elusive.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, January 6th (Monday)

remember what i told you a while back? (or paraphrased) you eventually forgive her because of her mistakes. the problem is, she has changed things. You now feel differently about her. Sure, you love her as the mother of your children. You can forgive her and not hate her. But........ not sure you want to stay with her the rest of your life. You see her differently now. she has forever changed the relationship. therein lies the problem.

but i will say this, before you pull the trigger, are you prepared to see her with another man? sure, you can go out on dates, it's great fun. But are you ready for her to now become someone elses? Because it will happen. If you divorce her, eventually she will move on regardless of what she says. Someone will find her attractive. She will become someone elses. The love of your life, will belong to someone else.

are you ready to do that? in my case, i am thinking very, very carefully about this. I recommend you do the same. that's also why i said take at least 6 months. you've got to really clear your head.

have fun fishing. wish i was doing the same thing. instead, i'm freezing my ass off in Kabul.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:10 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)

OK now, I agree with you. but the problem is that I don't want to search for HER reasons to cheat, and don't feel that I should have to. She needs to find out for herself, then PROVE to me that the reasons she gives are the true ones and not some kind of bullshit. Make no mistake that I WILL not accept anything less than complete accuracy and verifiable facts.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Mike, what are you talking about? She already HAS been somebody else's, whether I was ready or not. What difference would it make to me, after the fact? At least by divorcing her, I get the chance , to be somebody else's too. As far as the "love of my life" that is too depressing to think about. If this is what I have to look forward to, then divorce looks a lot better and healthier.

[This message edited by Bdell at 12:16 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Bdell,

I haven't read this whole thread, so this may be a repeat, but ...

Most of the BSes who chose D, or who were forced to D by unremorseful WSes, came to a point when they stopped thinking in 'would I do something other than D if s/he did....' They came to a point where they just knew D was best for them.

You don't seem to be there yet, and that makes sense, given how close D-Day seems. I think you're still in shock and unable to make good decisions for yourself. So don't - don't decide yet.

Also, I suggest that you stop thinking about your W's thinking - focus on you and what you want. You need to know if the A is a deal breaker or not. You'll find the answer in YOU, not in her.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:18 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10166 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Sisoon, I don't agree with you necessarily. If I don't get to the bottom of her thinking, there is zero chance we can reconcile. I will not be married to somebody I can't trust and don't know what is in her head. She will either be an open book or she will be living someplace else.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

The reason I got mad and cussed her out, was that right before bedtime, she came into the bedroom naked, wanting sex. Now I am a very highly sexed person and my wife naked could stop a train. SHE KNOWS THIS. So what am I to think? Does she really love and desire me or am I being played? She said that she only wants to prove that she is mine and mine alone. What I told her was that if she was mine, how come she gave my property to somebody else? It degenerated from there. She, pleading for forgiveness and me calling her every name in the book. I AM NOT going to live like this. People who say that I should wait 6 months before making a decision haven't explained to me how I am going to exist in this situation for 6 months, when I can barely get through each day. My wife does everything and much more to prove herself. She starts her new IC on Monday, and has scheduled a polygraph examination, and has taken the swabs from the kids to the clinic to be DNA tested. So she is being very proactive. I guess I am just still in anger mode.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:18 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

i know exactly what you're saying. however, I think Sissoon is right. She needs to figure out why she cheated. Being lonely isn't a reason. I think OK is probably right, she felt hopeless and resented you for leaving.

But sissoon is right in that ultimately it is up to you.


Do you still love her? That's for you to decide.

And when you do, my comment will make more sense to you. If you still love her, you won't be happy divorcing her, even if you think you should. You won't want to see her remarry. You won't be happy about it.

And to be clear, she always was yours. She just really fucked up in her despair and resentment. As she told the AP, "you're just a substitute." You were always who she wanted. I think deep down you know this.


But... if her actions have ultimately destroyed your love, then staying with her will be miserable and hateful.

So the question is, how long before you can decide if you love her? We are suggesting that you need to clear your mind. That's why we suggest 6 months. But maybe you already know this is a deal-breaker. Maybe you know you don't love her anymore. Whatever the case, the answer is in you.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I get what you and Sisoon are saying, Mike, and yes, it is all up to me, what decision I make.
As far as she "being mine", and the "substitute" comment, the proof is otherwise. I was never supposed to see that comment, I was never supposed to know anything was wrong. If she had come to me and confessed it would be much easier for me to decide to reconcile. I know that she was doing what she and the IC thought was best, but that doesn't mitigate the deception and disrespect.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Well, this morning the Kids left to go back to college, so I told my wife to go someplace else. I told her that maybe she should go to the OM's business and see if he will take her in. She sobbed for an hour, but for some reason I wasn't moved by her tears. She decided to go to my Buddy's house and stay. I just don't want to face her for a while. Am I wrong in that?
Now I KNOW that she is super remorseful, and I KNOW that she would give her life to undo what happened. I also KNOW that she is wracking her brain to find new ways of proving her love and desire and respect for me. I KNOW all that. So why doesn't it help? Just before she left, she said that all she wanted was to be near me and help me feel better, but when she is near me, I can only think of what she did. I want to forgive her, I really do, but it just isn't there right now. And I don't know if it will ever be there. I'm fairly sure that she will never cheat again, and she has said that if it will help me to trust in her devotion,remorse, and complete commitment to me, I can have carte blanche to have sex with anyone I choose, until I feel that I'm able to look at her without anger.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Bdell

You are still so angry. Rightfully so.

Even though you see and feel how remorseful your wife is it does not soothe your anger.

You need to find an outlet.

Maybe a little separation will help you calm down.

Because yelling/fighting with your does not help either of you.

In fact it makes the situation worse.

Do you feel better after you have shown your wife your anger?

Have you received any counseling?

HM


Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

she has said that if it will help me to trust in her devotion,remorse, and complete commitment to me, I can have carte blanche to have sex with anyone I choose

That always pisses me off. How on earth is screwing other women going to make you forget her betrayal? Rebuild the marriage? wipe out the memories?

Tell her to work on a valid explanation for her cheating, instead of trying to get back what is lost.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

You are angry - I get that.

It seems like you want her to suffer, you want to punish her, you want her to feel the same pain that you are feeling.

Do you believe your wife is suffering? Does it matter?

If you feel 110% that this affair was a dealbreaker, then the humane thing to do for all involved is cut the cord. But what everyone is trying to convince you of is that you are going to go through various stages and how you feel today may not be how you feel tomorrow or next week.

The affair is fact - it can't be undone, it will always and forever be a part of your life.

The question for you to find the answer to is: can you live with this?


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8099 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)


Bdell

Engineer here. Yes there are a staggering number of engineers on this website. It's ridiculous.

As far as what you are thinking I totally get it and I was there. I kept thinking that there was some magic lever to pull to make this better for me and make it somewhat easier to handle.

What I figured out is that there is simply no justice for the BS. None at all.

If you sleep with another woman that tarnishes your commitment and integrity in your own eyes. Any overt action you take essentially gets you nothing. You can't really punish the WW. You probably were really in love before you found out so chances are you still love her.

There is no action you can take that makes this better. There just isn't. All the want in the world isn't going to change that.

I have a 4 year old so my situation was different. If your kids are grown you are in a different situation. Divorce might be your answer.

I'm not sure if you got the "why" of it all. I never did get a good answer as to why. Most don't. That only makes it worse.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 342 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Bdell, you are like a Man who has been skinned alive, So of Course everything is going to hurt, Trying to make sense of all this will never end well as what your Wife did was senseless, Time will dull your pain to a certain extent, You may need help to process all this. Take a Buddy on your fishing trip, check about IC for yourself, decisions should be made when your mind is clear and calm, never in the heat of all this swirling mess your wife has left you.

Posts: 63 | Registered: Jun 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I have to answer the question, is my wife suffering? I would say that she is suffering only marginally less than I am. I don't know if I have ever seen anybody so filled with fear and self-loathing as she is. She told me this morning that she can barely look at herself in the mirror and only does so that she would look good for me. She prays for forgiveness almost constantly and after the affair was filled with self doubt about confessing, and has had suicidal thoughts. These are especially bad during Holidays and any time her memories of the affair fill her mind. She also has said that the only thing that has kept her sane is her love (belated, I know) for me and her overwhelming desire to atone for her sins. (her words, not mine) Sooooo, to make a long story short, I told her I had changed my mind and she can stay. When I told her, she dropped down down on her knees. I don't know how much of this Drama I can take, but I don't think that kicking her out will help either of us. I am alternately filled with anger and compassion, sometimes in the same thought. I fucking HATE this.

[This message edited by Bdell at 1:09 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Hello Bdell,

If I don't get to the bottom of her thinking, there is zero chance we can reconcile.

I think many of us thought it was important to understand our WS's A, and the thought process related to it. What I, and I believe most of us, find out is that there is no making sense of an irrational act. Sure, I have learned a lot about FOO, ACoA, and BPD issues. I can understand what FWW is saying when she tells me how she felt, but I have never been able to make the jump to where I understand how having an emotional and physical relationship with an OP and carrying it out in front of me worked and met a need. I understand if you need to find this truth out for yourself, but do not be surprised if there is no clarity.

So why doesn't it help?

Because healing is on you, it is your job. Your WW can help create an environment where you feel safe through maintaining NC, being transparent, being open, working on her issues, and demonstrating that she desires you and the M. Beyond that, you are the one who must work towards acceptance and healing, I am leaving forgiveness out for now.

I encourage you to take the fishing trip you mentioned. Some distance and detachment can be a good thing in the early stages to help focus on you and take the focus off your WW and your M. I also encourage you to consider your own IC to help process through your post dday feelings and expectations. By the time you get well along to acceptance and starting to heal, you will know from watching your WW if you still want to try to stay and R, or not.

--Ats


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4132 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
sidney2718
New Member
Member # 41190
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Bdell had written:

OK now, I agree with you. but the problem is that I don't want to search for HER reasons to cheat, and don't feel that I should have to. She needs to find out for herself, then PROVE to me that the reasons she gives are the true ones and not some kind of bullshit. Make no mistake that I WILL not accept anything less than complete accuracy and verifiable facts.

There are things in life that cannot be proven. Her reasons to cheat are one of them. She can tell you what she was thinking, but how does she prove it?

I think you know this.

You come off as a good strong guy who has been badly wronged. I understand that. But don't place impossible burdens on your wife. All that will happen is that you will lose her and possibly spend many years regretting it.


Posts: 41 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Northeast US
Mapleleaf4ever
New Member
Member # 37090
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Bdell,

I understand your pain very much. I think that you are handling this situation the best way that you can.
I would only add that my WW carried on a LTA with the same dude until I finally caught her. The woman that I loved more than anything betrayed me. She showed no remorse and quickly decided to leave to pursue a life with the OM.
How I wish that my wife had the deep and profound sense of remorse that your wife appears to have. Although you have been force fed a shit sandwich, at least your wife knows that what she did is wrong and deeply wants to atone for her mistakes. I hope that you can someday find some peace in this situation and get back to the true love that you once had.
We are all fallable creatures. Who amoung us is without sin?


ME-BH (52)
HER-WW (52)
Married 16 years,
together 20years
One beautiful daughter.
DDay #1 - 06 Apr 2011 EA
DDay #2 - 01 Feb 2012 PA

Posts: 30 | Registered: Oct 2012
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I am so sorry for your pain and have been following this whole thread. At first I thought you sounded like "The Great Santini", telling your kids and wife how things were going to be over the holidays. That you were going to tell all the family. That she has to do this and that to please you, earn you back. Prove to you all things you were demanding. All understandable. However, not a pretty picture of you and how you handle crisis.

BDell, this whole situation is not going to be black and white. You aren't going to get answers that will ever make sense or make the A go away. The only thing you can do is get THROUGH it, with or without you wife. Only you know if you can do that.

You cling to thoughts of D, but you make her jump through hoops to prove herself. She has done all that you asked and more. Told you repeatedly of her love for you. Yet you keep calling her names and pushing her away. Yes, right now you are hurting, you don't know what you want so you are all over the place. I think the best thing you can do is go fishing and think.

We all hate that our WS were with another. We all hate the pain and betrayal. We all trusted and found the person we trusted most had stabbed us in the back and twisted the knife. At some point, you will have to decide if you can FORGIVE. You will never forget, none of us can.

I don't know how much more your WS can do to prove herself. You have the timeline, the counselor notes, her apologies, her protestations of her love, you see her fear, feel her depression. How much more do you want from her. I don't need to know, but you sure as hell need to get a gripe on what will be enough. Enough pain, humiliation, self loathing and hate for herself what will be enough for you. Until you can define that for yourself, you won't be moving forward. Stop looking back, start focusing on building a new future. If you can't forgive, let her go. If you want to TRY R then start showing her some kindness, or in the end you will lose her because you are pushing her away, and yet are undecided about R.

I am not trying to call you out, but want you to think about what you have been doing and is this benefiting you or hurting you more?

[This message edited by momentintime at 4:40 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2982 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Sidney and Moment, what impossible burdens am I asking of my wife? I am asking her to prove what she says and does. I don't particularly WANT to have to demand this, but because she cheated, I can see no other way to even attempt reconciliation. Before I can make the best decision for all concerned, I HAVE to have the facts.....all of the facts, and I MUST know the depth of my wife's love, desire, respect and devotion, to ME. Her mindset during the affair is secondary to this, but would be of help to me.
Moment, if asking for integrity and honor from my wife is"pushing her away", then she can go at any time, with my blessing. I am asking no more of her, post affair , than I would ask of her , pre-affair.
My family is an exclusive club, which she betrayed. Now she has to prove that she is worthy to be re-admitted to that club.
While I have allowed myself a few angry tirades, they have been very few and very brief. My wife's guilt and self-loathing are in her own mind and soul, I never want anybody to suffer as she is suffering now, and I have deliberately done everything in my power to make sure that she is physically and emotionally safe. My actions regarding Christmas and my Mom are proof of this. Had I not laid down the law, the Holidays would have been a shit show of major proportion. I have provided a safe sanctuary for her to begin rebuilding her self image. Contrary to what you might think, I have been a damn good husband.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 12:17 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

Bdell, when will you have enough proof? She has provided you with all she has, what more are you looking for? Do you even know? You won't get an iron clad guarantee, we as BS never did nor will, but at some point you have to have faith that you have reached the bottom, and can now work your way up.

I was betrayed, it hurt like hell, but at some point you need to start down the road to recovery with or without her. Right now you are stuck. What you are looking for can't be found, none of us get what you are seeking.

What I was trying to say earlier. You aren't the only one who has a choice. If you continue to punish her at some point she will break. The pain will be too great and she will start to pull away to protect what is left of herself. You can't hold the possiblity of D over her head forever. You can't keep pushing for answers there are no answers for.

I know this is new for you, but you have experienced four good years of her proving herself of wanting your M and you. She went to counseling. That she got bad advice isn't her fault. She has done all you have asked, and according to you even more. She tries to show you everyday how important you are to her. Do you even recognize her efforts? Do you block them with thoughts, she cheated, I can't trust her, she betrayed me AND my family. She isn't WORTHY of a second chance. There is the crux, either you want to try or you don't but limbo is one hell of a place to be. You are sentencing both of you to that living hell.

You can get past this, you will survive. How you survive is up to you. I have yet to get the sense that you have any love her. Perhaps you don't and you are just getting even.

PS: Do you think what you are doing is asking for integrity and honesty? What has she held back? I don't understand what you are seeking and I bet she doesn't either. Hard to make headway this way.

[This message edited by momentintime at 12:26 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2982 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I will not fully commit to R without knowing the "why " of the affair, as much as it is possible to know. It is simple as that. Plus, I want proof that what she is saying NOW is her real feelings. As far as "punishing her" I will repeat that other than a few choice words, I am not, will never , and have not ever, forced her to do, say or think anything that she has not agreed to. And it has only been 1 month and you are talking about holding D "over her head forever? I appreciate all posts, but I would like posters to stop making grand sweeping statements and stick to the facts. And, do I appreciate what she has already done? More than you or anyone else will ever know.

[This message edited by Bdell at 1:04 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 1:02 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I thought you had the why. You gone, father dying, empty-nest, depression, loneliness. She broke plain and simple. Isn't that enough?

Of course she is willing to do whatever you want, she will agree because she is trying to save her M and please you.

I know it has only been a month, and you certainly should take time to decide whether to R or D. Your pain isn't going away anytime soon. I get that you are hurting. Perhaps it is your writing style that makes you sound so cold. I don't think you mean to come across that way, and I apologize if you think I am trying to push you towards something you aren't ready for. I, and all of us, want you to heal, to have a wonderful future. It just takes time.

[This message edited by momentintime at 1:13 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2982 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:17 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

No, it's not. There are several issues that have to be answered. For example, She told the IC that it wasn't about sex, so why did they have sex? Now a lot of the issues will be answered during the course of IC. I know that. And I am giving her the opportunity to fix herself so that we can possibly begin a new marriage. All things considered, I think I'm doing pretty well. Also, I don't really care if YOU get any sense of the love I have for my wife. She knows, and that is all that matters.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 1:20 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I am a Mechanical Engineer, If I had better writing skills , I would be a Novelist. Really, Moment, I'm doing the best I can.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

You really are doing the best you can; its only been a month and in my opinion you are way ahead of the curve. You are being fair to your WW and its quite reasonable to expect her to define why she made a decision to cheat multiple times, with a high degree of intimacy.

She cannot make the claim she has always passionately loved you without explaining the reasons why she had this damaging affair. If it was resentment then interpret her mindset at the time..

The sooner she does this, the sooner healing can begin.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
wewillmakeit
Member
Member # 26290
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

No, it's not. There are several issues that have to be answered. For example, She told the IC that it wasn't about sex, so why did they have sex? Now a lot of the issues will be answered during the course of IC. I know that. And I am giving her the opportunity to fix herself so that we can possibly begin a new marriage.

I'm nearly 7 years out from discovering my wife's affair. We recovered and remain married. Like most BS I struggled with the "why". Unfortunately it is very unlikely that you will ever get an answer that fully fulfills your current questioning. Frankly, you already have more answers to that question (and many others) than I got (and that goes for many on this board).

If it wasn't about sex then why did they have sex? I think you already know the answer. Women typically don't experience unhappiness in their marriage and think, "what I need is a new sex partner". Women's brains aren't generally wired that way. They give themselves permission to enter into a relationship to address emotional needs. They give themselves permission to have sex in that relationship as a component of the emotional bond they form. Her own words in her IC sessions bear that out. It wasn't about the sex, it was about emotional bonding. I can't tell you how many post I've read on this board in the last 6 years where the WW has said something to the effect of - the sex wasn't even that good, but it was important to the affair partner , and at that point in time, having a relationship with him was important to me.

In addition to what you already know there may be FOO (Family of Origin) issues. There almost always is. Those types of deep-rooted, core, influences on one's behavior are very difficult to unearth. It can take years of difficult counseling to peel that onion. People don't "get fixed". They learn about themselves, try to be stronger/better, and move forward with life.

We went through about 3 years of MC and IC. Some core insight was gained, but not much. I eventually came to accept what my priest told me shortly after d-day when I told him I was really struggling with "why". His answer: "because humans are weak".

[This message edited by wewillmakeit at 9:05 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]


Posts: 265 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
tearingaway
Member
Member # 28618
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I MUST know the depth of my wife's love, desire, respect and devotion, to ME.

Can anyone ever really know this, even with a spouse who has not cheated? Perhaps it is possible, but this notion seems romanticized.

I will not fully commit to R without knowing the "why " of the affair, as much as it is possible to know.

It is unlikely that you will know the "why" of the A. Sorry, but there it is. Ask the thousands of other BSs about whether or not they truly (and I mean TRULY) got the "why" of the situation. I would wager that a small fraction of those people actually got the whole truth or the why.

The other part of this is that the BS frequently doesn't understand the "why" even when the WS offers his or her true reason for the A. WS: "I was upset because you don't pay attention to me the way you used to, so I broke down and had an affair. I wanted the attention and I was broken, so I did it." BS: "I don't get that. I have been a good partner to you. I share my life with you, I give you backrubs, and I do housework with you." etc., etc.

You want absolutes, but I guess what I am getting at is that you will ultimately have to make a decision without necessarily knowing the depths of your WW's love or the why of the A because neither is 100% knowable.


Posts: 334 | Registered: May 2010
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I need to know these things, as much as it is possible to know. I realize that time and memory and the situation has changed and that she can only give me what she, herself, remembers of her thought processes during the affair. But this , in itself , will help to restore my confidence in her.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I have read most of the thread and believe the most loving thing you can do for your wife at this juncture is give her a divorce.

Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

Bdell,

People make mistakes. I simply judge them not for the mistakes they make, but how they handle it. In my opinion, your wife has gone above and beyond at this stage compared to what many of our own WS have done/not done to show remorse and try to atone for her mistake. She received HORRIBLE advice from the first IC about sweeping the A under the rug. Consider giving this great weight to your wifeís actions beyond the A and into your thinking process of either R or D.

Sorry for making my first post in this forum without proper introductions. Iím new here and will tell of my own story in due time in my own thread in the Divorce/Seperation section. In short, I am a week away from my own D being finalized. It is uncontested, but the WS is dragging her feet in the process. I have two kids.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 520 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

Bdell,

People make mistakes. I simply judge them not for the mistakes they make, but how they handle it. In my opinion, your wife has gone above and beyond at this stage compared to what many of our own WS have done/not done to show remorse and try to atone for her mistake. She received HORRIBLE advice from the first IC about sweeping the A under the rug. Consider giving this great weight to your wifeís actions beyond the A and into your thinking process of either R or D.

Sorry for making my first post in this forum without proper introductions. Iím new here and will tell of my own story in due time in my own thread in the Divorce/Seperation section. In short, I am a week away from my own D being finalized. It is uncontested, but the WS is dragging her feet in the process. I have two kids.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 520 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

She told the IC that it wasn't about sex, so why did they have sex?

Oh I fought that one for a long time as well. I will tell you something the IC told me that pissed me off but is so true in retrospect. "Well Lord, They are adults who were in a relationship. That is what adults in relationships do right?" And I would get all pissed and say "yes but she should have never entered into the relationship." To which he would say "Oh, so you understand why they has sex and are trying to figure out why she walked past her marital boundaries and began a relationship in the first place."
You see once the relationship starts they will do what every other adult when dating will do..... It sucks to admit, but the sex really doesn't matter, its the abandoning of the marriage the rest is collateral damage.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Nov 2010
wewillmakeit
Member
Member # 26290
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I was in your position so I know it is difficult to understand what I'm about to say.

She won't be able to come up with much more than she has. If she does, it will come slowly and it will be "blurry". I think you mentioned that you are and engineer. You like precision, data, facts. You aren't going to get it. At least not quickly and not concisely.

She was lonely, miserable, possibly depressed. You were away. She reached out to a guy to fulfill some emotional needs. They had a brief relationship that included sex. The affair died out rather quickly. She felt guilty about it. She consulted a therapist about it, and on the therapist's advice, kept it secret. Now its out and she feels remorse, regret, guilt, She is empathic to the pain and anger you are experiencing. She wants to do the hard work of regaining your trust and your love.

Moral, good people can transgress into a one-time affair. I suspect, based on what you've said, that this applies to your wife. You have all of the ingredients for reconciliation. Resist the urge to side-track that by prioritizing acquisition of facts/data that you may never get. I did that very thing and it almost derailed our reconciliation and, to some extent, wasted about one year of counseling.


Posts: 265 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I need to know these things, as much as it is possible to know. I realize that time and memory and the situation has changed and that she can only give me what she, herself, remembers of her thought processes during the affair. But this , in itself , will help to restore my confidence in her.

I personally think it is too soon for you to stop asking questions or to try to squelch your anger.

Even though she hid this deceit for 4 years, you are just now finding out that your wife took a lover whilst being married to you.That shit hurts!

"I need to know these things..." As her husband you are in a 'need to know position'.

This^^^ is not punishment, its just the natural order of deception and discovery. She seems willing to give you what you want to know, to really want to put you at ease no matter what her discomfort.

That is good. Ask as many questions, over and over if necessary to help you feel better. You and only you will know when you have had your fill of answers.

Don't feel bad about quizzing her. The tone and timber of your queries will lessen over time as you make your way to acceptance.

You need information to help you re-adjust your new reality. The paradigm for your marriage has had a seismic shift. And your WW was the perpetrator. It's true, she did take a lover.

Part of the pain and anger you are feeling is your brain re-booting and over-writing what you thought was your past and now what you know is your past! This is why it is important to get all of the truthful info you feel you need in order to make an authentic, realistic choices about the future.

Mr. Happy and I are almost 3 years out and the betrayal still hurts like hell. BUT he has really gone out of his way to help me to feel wanted and SAFE. At DD, I did not believe that he was worthy of my being vulnerable with him.

I quizzed him every which-a-way and continue to do to this day.

I gave him vulnerability and trust with my life and love when I married him. He shit on all of that. So it took and is still taking years to recover from his horrible choices.

I am making my journey back to him. He had to woo me and put as much if not more energy into our marriage and me than he ever put into that whore.

The good news is Mr. Happy is tireless in his quest to help me heal.

We have both really tried to pick up the pieces of our shattered marriage and move forward. It has not been easy.

We persevere.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

Seriouslylostit, my wife would disagree with you till her dying day.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

Getting to Happy, my wife agrees with you and so do I. She told me again this morning that she will work hard to repair herself and do whatever it takes to help me heal. She also said that for the rest of her life, she will act, think and breathe for me and me alone. I am beginning to believe her. We have decided that every night we will examine our progress, but that we will also try to spend some time together without talking about the affair. Actually, I may have made a big mistake. My wife was taking a shower and I went into the bathroom to get my aftershave and it happened. I don't know why it happened, but it did.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

I remain convinced your wife knows why she cheated 4 years ago. Its almost as if she decided to take a substitute husband to replace you for some of the time you were away. People don't do this because they are lonely, miserable and depressed; that would turn me off sex. They do it because the marriage has entered a down cycle connected with your absence and your reluctance to let her join you. So she replaced you.

The sex was an integral part of the new relationship; like renting a car because your own car was being repaired. She suspended her real marriage and 'rented' a new one. Its difficult to ascertain whether she got alarmed at the possibility you may find out about the affair; particularly if the OM was pressurizing her for more sex, or if it was intense guilt at her betrayal. Either way she needs to explain if she truly wished to reconcile and satisfy your requirements for the whole truth.


Posts: 1716 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Question  Posted: 12:15 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

Hugs to you ((((Bdell))))

I am mystified why there are voices on this thread that think that having a healthy sense of self respect and being repulsed by the deceitful betrayal from the one person who vowed to love you til'death is getting so much blowback?!

I remember in bright edged detail how searing the pain was on DD.

Your reactions are spot on.

I am glad that your WW is forthcoming with info and transparent as she can be.

But that does not take away the betrayal.

This will be a rollercoaster ride for while. And not a fun one.

You are very brave to give your WW a chance to redeem herself to you.

I wish you strength, clarity and grace in your journey back to a peaceful marriage.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

We have decided that every night we will examine our progress, but that we will also try to spend some time together without talking about the affair. Actually, I may have made a big mistake. My wife was taking a shower and I went into the bathroom to get my aftershave and it happened. I don't know why it happened, but it did.

You have been gravely injured. Your gonna slip up, crimmany, its only been a month since you found out! But now, at least, you feel that she 'gets it'.

I hope that when you feel safe enough you will turn to her when you are feeling sad and in pain. That is when true healing can start.

Turn towards each other, shut out everything else. It can happen, let her help you.

Hang in there. It's a long haul. Take as much time as you need to get to your 'Happy'.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

Hey, you keep asking the questions that you need to ask. As long as you need to ask and in as much detail as you need to ask. Just don''t be surprised if it takes a while for her to get to the absolute bottom of why. Nor if she really doesn''t get all the way there. Nor if it never makes sense to you.

I see getting to that bottom as peeling a really strong onion one layer at a time. You peel one layer, kinda sit back a bit with your eyes watering, maybe rinse it off under some water and wipe your eyes, then go back for another layer. It''s not instantaneous.

My FHW is still peeling the onion. His excuse started with, and I kid you not, "I wanted to feel pretty." Ah, what? His take on hiding money from me in a separate account and spending it on his EA with a stripper? "I felt like we had a connection."

It took him over a year, to finally realize that the only connection that his stripper felt for him, was the connection to the money in his wallet. Period. Over A Fricking Year, with me, our MC, and his IC all pointing down the path that had dollar bills at the end. The pretty comment is now back in FOO issues about abandonment, and, honestly, because he''s walked the path to R in a pretty straight line, went into our marriage issues that contributed to his feelings of abandonment in our marriage. But it''s been almost 20 months for us now. And he''s still digging up issues.

So keep on with your questions, but do not be surprised if it takes a while to get to the very root of what you truly want to know. It seems very unfair that we BSs can''t get that info quickly, but what I try to keep in mind is that his issues are indeed his issues. My issues are mine. We each have to work on our own issues. I will tell you that the minute that he quits working on those issues, then it becomes my choice to decide if I''m good with that.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4857 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
wewillmakeit
Member
Member # 26290
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

gettohappy said:
I remember in bright edged detail how searing the pain was on DD.

As do I.

All of us BS look back and wonder "what should/could we have done differently/better, if we could have, in reaction to DD".

That's why I express my thoughts on this forum.


Posts: 265 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:04 AM, January 10th (Friday)

As long as she is working hard on her issues, and doing what is needed for rebuilding my trust, I will be patient and meet her half way. I don't expect all of the answers immediately.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:26 AM, January 10th (Friday)

One of the things I appreciate about SI is that by reading some of the posts, it helps to kick start the little gray cells.
OK Now and Getting to Happy, your posts have helped me to understand one of those nagging "why" questions I've had since I discovered the affair. So I went back and re-read some of the earlier IC notes.
In the beginning of one of her sessions, the IC was trying to get my wife to explain about having sex with the OM. She (IC) was asking my wife if our sex life wasn't good. My wife said that our sex life was one of the best parts of our marriage, and was much better than with the OM. The IC then asked her, if that is true, WHY she had sex with him? My wife's answer was , she had to, or"he would leave her like everybody else had". This gives me a huge insight into her mindset. It's clear that she had a lot of resentment about her situation, and was very lonely.
Think about it objectively. Her husband, her kids, her best friend, her father and her sister had either left her alone or was dying. Pretty much all of her support network was missing, when she needed it.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

I think we are past the initial shock of the discovery. My wife is doing everything I want and a huge amount more. We have a lot to look forward to. The results of the DNA test should be in a few days (although I don't really know how long it usually takes). her first IC session with her new counselor is Monday. The polygraph is tentatively scheduled for the last week in January, because her mom is having surgery this coming week. I have made up my mind to take her on my fishing trip. She has relatives in Florida, and she can visit while I am catching all the fish. I think she has done real good since the discovery, and she could use a breather, just like me.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

Bdell,
I'm so glad that your working through this. I know exactly how hard it is.
I know that you and your WW will get through this terrible thing.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 469 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

I think we are past the initial shock of the discovery. My wife is doing everything I want and a huge amount more. We have a lot to look forward to.

Your tone has changed. Clearer, loving. It's a beautiful thing. I'm glad because this betrayal is not easy to weather.

Remember what Margo Channing/Bette Davis said~

Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night!

She ain't never lied! Get ready for the Infidelity Rollercoaster.

Just a fair warning to you and your WW. This is a 2-5 year journey. I hate to be a Debby Downer, just wanted to give you a heads up.

You and your WW are smart folks, look up the 5 stages of grief. I wish that someone had warned me of what to expect.

Just know that you and only you will have to experience all of these emotions. And your WW will need to persevere while your mind and soul ebbs and flows through these stages.

Not so much fun...but necessary for healthy human emotional progress. It is a natural reaction to trauma.

If Infidelity isn't traumatic, I don't know what is!!!

The old marriage is dead, let it go. Nothing will be the same, you two are not the same. Everything is new. She will need to woo you so that you will want to make the journey back to loving her...you both will be setting new boundaries, there will be more transparency.

Most of all the new and improved love for each other will begin to blossom...grow. The grief will make for some big hiccups but the strength of your bonds to each other will provide the balm needed to ease your way through.

Like I said before, turn to each other for solace.

Jimminy Cricket got it right... These words are so true. When you have been gravely injured by your true love, that is when the quest back to each other begins. I always think of this song:

When you wish upon a star
Makes no difference who you are
Anything your heart desires
Will come to you


If your heart is in your dream
No request is too extreme

When you wish upon a star
As dreamers do



WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

Since we are now in some kind of recovery, I think I will close out this thread. Many, many thanks to all who posted. Regardless of whether we agreed or not, I have learned a lot from you and will continue in the reconciliation thread. Thanks again!!

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

well done my friend. i was hoping you would come to that conclusion. based on all you've written I think you've made the right decision.

realize, of course, you will still have ups and downs, and will question yourself. But you have a wife who is really trying and that's the key component. I have faith that things will work out. good luck


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
Topic Posts: 330