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User Topic: WS read Marriage Builders, "you don't need to deal w/ the proble
Oldernotwiser
Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, December 16th (Monday)

After a weekend of arguing and fighting FWH googles affair recovery and finds the Marriage Builders site. He identified strongly with the author saying " the past is over, you can't resolve every issue so focus on Filling Love Bank and your spouse should feel more loved.... ". I feel like we do need to deal with the issues. I think we should be talking about his betrayals. The author writes that infidelity is the worst blow to the BS, devastating to the relationship etc, but the focus is on meeting needs and enthusiastic agreement. Have I missed something? If betrayal is so devastating shouldn't we work through that along with treating each other respectfully. He's never tried reading anything really but says now this guy is the first one to offer us GOOD advice. He agrees his adultery was very thoughtless but it ended and now all we need to do is be considerate in our dealings with each other and the marriage will be healed. I am pretty angry still, still feel like I don't know what all has occurred over the 30 years of affairs , acting out sexually, flotations and lies, lies, lies. I am not thinking of physically leaving but I have to admit I feel like I have shut down inside. I am so used up I don't feel like I can even keep trying to understand or work things out alone any longer. I wish he would've found a different advice site. The policy of radical honesty " wasn't referring to disclosing old affairs"


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, December 16th (Monday)

I can honestly say as veteran here, anyone who says you don't need to deal with the past to heal in the future is full of SHIT. This is wrong for anyone who has been through any type of traumatic event.

Of course you have to deal with it. Of course he has to deal with it. Moving on and pretending all is hunky dory is a recipe for repeat offenses, and you developing resentment and anger.

EA, PA whatever there is something fundamentally not right with your H's thinking and he needs to understand why he sought this attention, and why he felt it was ok to lie to you. This has to be figured out, and he has to heal himself, and fix that part so you can become strong and confident in your relationship again.

Sure he can be kind and honest and transparent, and sorry, and all of that stuff that he needs to do to help you heal, and help the M heal, but until he really does the nitty gritty dirty work of healing then you are just going through motions, and rugsweeping. It's up to you what you allow him to get away with, and it's up to you call bullshit when you see it, and my dear this is bullshit with a capital B.

Has he done any work toward healing yet?
Has he said he wants to R?
Is he doing any of the work?

If so then go buy him Not just friends and have him read that one to start off. That's the real deal in dealing with infidelity and healthy happy healing.

((((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8489 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, December 16th (Monday)

The MB stuff never really worked for me either. To get the entirety of what they are really saying, you have to read the books. The web stuff is meant to lure WS in to buy the books.

In my opinion, MB totally ignores processing of the BS anger, justice, making amends, even side steps apology for the WS. Dangerously close to rug sweeping if you ask me.

We tried MC, she suggested some of the Dr. Harley stuff. Well it gave my W an entitlement that I hadn't seen in awhile. We fired the MC and through the books away. I told my W that if we are going to follow MB, we are probably going to end up D. That stopped it.

So many other resources available. Have him read a different one. No one author has it completely correct.

How to help your spouse after an affair is a better read.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2554 | Registered: May 2010
plainpain
Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Wow. That makes me angry for you! So, let's just say I punched you in the face and threw you down the stairs.. and then I did this repeatedly over a period of 30 years... well, how 'thoughtless' of me! But this is repairable if we just move on and we both learn to be more respectful and considerate of one another, and I 'fill your love bank'? Fine. IN BIZARRO WORLD.

Filling the love bank means doing WHATEVER THE BS NEEDS. Considering the needs of the BS. Putting aside your own CLEARLY selfish, self-serving behaviors and giving the BS what they say that they need from you. If the BS SAYS, 'I don't want to know', then perhaps there is an argument to be made for non-disclosure. But if the BS is asking question after question after question, one might assume that information is welcome.

You have been seriously traumatized. You have the right to ask for whatever you need in order to heal. Whether you are able to save your marriage or not, YOU need to HEAL. Not 'the marriage'... YOU. How dare your WS question what it is that you need? I HATE that so much. My H does it, too, sometimes, and that's generally the time I start planning my D.
GRRRR.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, December 16th (Monday)

He's never tried reading anything really but says now this guy is the first one to offer us GOOD advice. He agrees his adultery was very thoughtless but it ended and now all we need to do is be considerate in our dealings with each other and the marriage will be healed.

He thinks it's good advice because it means he doesn't have to deal with that shit anymore.

The book is horse shit.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7444 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Reading snippets of a theory is very dangerous indeed. I think he's missed some pretty serious parts. MB has a very different theory of affairs. Dr. Harley believes that everyone is vulnerable to affairs, and the way you combat that is with his love bank/meeting needs theory. I think that meeting needs and the policy of join agreement are pretty good ideas in general and helpful in building marriages. Not so much in affair recovery.

That said, even Harley believes the cheater is 100% responsible for their decision to cheat. And in all my readings, your WH's versions of the theories are not at ALL accurate.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, December 16th (Monday)

MB offers horrible advice IMO.

I read the books. At first I liked the idea as it seemed calculated and mathematical. But then the whole *get over it* theme became apparent. By hurting we are subtracting from our WS *love bank*.

So what did their affair do to OUR love bank?

The love bank is horse shit. Just another way to shift blame onto the BS IMO.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, December 16th (Monday)

MB also says once you've talked about the affair and all questions are answered it's never brought up again.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4914 | Registered: Dec 2010
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, December 16th (Monday)

but the focus is on meeting needs and enthusiastic agreement.

Nothing like cherry picking, huh? Your H just wants to avoid the pain and damage he has caused, and pretend everything is fine, because to him, as long as he can ignore the pain and damage, life is fine. He wasn't betrayed. He isn't hurting. He isn't shattered and scared and angry and sad and insecure and every emotion you can think of except happy. He's just fine. He has his wife, faithful as she is, and his home, and he's just ready to move onl

His article said the focus is on meeting needs. Well, your need is to discuss his betrayals and work through why he felt entitled to have outside relationships, why he didn't feel he could come to you if he was unhappy, why he has such poor boundaries and coping skills. These are the needs. So ask him when he'll be meeting your needs? Then 180 his dumb ass.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
cl131716
Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I personally don't classify anything as "the past" until I have dealt with it and completely healed.

If you broke your leg and still wore a cast would you consider the break in "the past"?


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, December 16th (Monday)

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald.

The fact that my H took that short, clear book to heart, and the fact that I found SI are the reasons we are in R rather than divorced.

Don't let your WS cherry-pick the advice that his wayward mind identifies with.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
crestfallen
Member
Member # 27993
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, December 16th (Monday)

My H read that too. When I first discovered the A, he refused to talk about it. Then, through MC, he was advised to do so, but gently. That's when the lying started. He refused to show me things I asked for. He refused to give me passwords. He got angry when I stopped in his office. He stopped MC claiming it was not useful( because someone was telling you to be accountable and you are not the awesome humble guy you think you are???)

Then, the sleuth, that I am, I discovered the credit card and phone bills that I needed and got into his accounts and found all kinds of bad shit. I asked him about it and he lied some more.

About 10 month after Dday, we had a session where he spilled most of it, but I could tell there were more lies. Intuition?

Year after year, something surfaces about his affair...because he refuses to deal with it in a way that is reconcilatory to me, he has prolonged the healing. I have tried to be patient, but as a result, I still have some very difficult days. Because he refuses to be uncomfortable for one moment. He claims he loves me, but he just loves himself more. I will be 5 years in February and I am well. I just think if was really willing to deal with this in the correct way from the beginning, I would be doing so much better.


BS-me-57
WH-57
Married 32 years
OW-Mr. Ed ish! Seriously!
DDAY- 2/21/09
TT until 1/10/10
Working on R and doing well!!

Posts: 179 | Registered: Mar 2010
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, December 16th (Monday)

If
but the focus is on meeting needs and enthusiastic agreement
Where's the part where YOUR needs are met? Where you enthusiastically agree with the way forward?


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
MindMonkey
Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, December 16th (Monday)

We followed the MB program at first. I still believe whole heartedly in the concept of the love bank but I COULD NOT get over the fact that they completely discount resentment. I felt like a horrible abusive failure everytime the anger boiled over. MB just says don’t talk about it and take anti-depressants as if there is some pill that’ll make me happy.

The worst part is that FWW wanted to follow it which seemed a little “convenient”. Of course the WS wants to follow a plan where they don’t have to deal with the horrible mess they created. The MB plan was making me nuts.

I don’t want to punish her with it but it just pisses me off to act like it never happened. Talk about the elephant in the room.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
NoGoodUsername
Member
Member # 40181
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, December 16th (Monday)

I know that some people at SI have been helped by Marriage Builders, but my BW and I look separate looks at their material and went the other way.


Me: WH
Her: BW
Dday 7/11/13
"May you be protected from hearts that are not humble, tongues that are not wise and eyes that have forgotten how to cry."

Posts: 237 | Registered: Aug 2013
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, December 16th (Monday)

My love bank was empty for years. never cheated. Move on nothing to see here


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1897 | Registered: Nov 2010
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, December 16th (Monday)

My pastor had the same stance in '99. Forgive, move on, work on the M- not dealing with the A.

I'm here for a second A that MrH had in '06.

Deal with the issues. MrH is trying to fill my love bank and he just can't because the issues from the A, that he's still tried to ignore, have left holes that make it impossible to fill.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11186 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Oldernotwiser
Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Today I told him I wasn't sure that MB is what I need as it seems to avoid exactly what is causing me problems. He said it is spot on for what WE need and I don't like it because I want to stay in the hole I am in rather than follow advice that makes sense.
The reason he even looked at anything for help was because I let him know I am not feeling like I doing better, I am still struggling with a loss of feelings, I still trigger, I have to play mind games to get through the stuff I see in my head, and I am seriously thinking that I am way past the point of no return.
He hid everything for so long but, I have obviously used up the allotted time to forget. He loved the "don't bring up the past"


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, December 16th (Monday)

To get the entirety of what they are really saying, you have to read the books. The web stuff is meant to lure WS in to buy the books.

It is a marketing ploy....geared towards WS and BS who are contemplating trying to skip the intial first stages. Stages I believe are mandatory.

How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair....is the single best, quickest read for a WS. My wife did most of the suggestions but chose not to do some of them. Back then I was fine with that...was so grateful for anything she offered our M.

IF we had used the MB as our starting point I fear the results would have been dreadful. My wife would learn to do just a little more for our M and I would learn to move my threshold of what was acceptable and healthy within my M to her....and she would have another A in the future.

NOW I have changed. I would no longer be so grateful for what I was back then. I know I have changed and if my wife chooses anything adultery-related I will not fear it....I will face it full on!

NOW my wife has changed. I think she would actually do ALL of what is said in that book.


I do think ideas from MB, such as meeting needs and enthusiasitic agreement, are good ones that every M can benefit from. Think about how your life would have been different if your spouse came to you and said "I met this man, am thinking about fucking him, do you enthusiasically agree with this choice?"

The tending of needs....what if blakesteele was mature enough to 1. recognize I had needs and 2. mature enough to express them in a way my wife would understand? What if my wife could have done this? What if just ONE of us was mature enough to do this?????

But how realistic is it to work with a soldier coming back from a war zone, helping him through his trauma, but never recognizing he was actually IN a war?!?!? Sounds crazy....sounds crazy because it IS crazy.

I fail to see how "ignoring" helps a person heal.....isnt that what part of FOO issues are? a way to cope (ignore) a trauma we aren't equipped to handle.....then have it just kind of fade from our memory? Only it doesn't fade does it....it might, and usually does, get to the unconcious level...but it continues to influence us.

NOT HEALTHY.

Sin is a quick but ineffective fix.

I don't think any "quick" way through this is going to be effective. Not sure of the exact path....but I do believe those first initial steps of fully recognizing what the source of the trauma is is critical. Just don't see how you can process through it without first "defining it"....and a BS does this through repeatedly questioning and a fWS does this through owning all of the shit they gave birth to through their repeated decisions.

I have seen a number of SI members whos WS cheated on them years before, started doing what MB professes to do immediately, the BS trusted them (which I would have been willing to do too had my wife been immediately remorseful and super committed acting).....and then found their spouse fucking another person years down the road.

I am convinced we are doomed to repeat our cycles if we act like they never resulted in painful, traumatic experiences.

God be with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3655 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, December 16th (Monday)

In Harley's system, who fills whose love bank?

IMO, only I can fill mine, and only my W can fill hers. We can support and influence each other, but that's it.

No matter how much love my partner gives me, I choose how much to take in. And I have to feel pretty good about myself to take love in - otherwise, IMO I'm too likely to reject love because I think I'm unworthy of it. That's how I lived my life for several decades.

And now I know that only I can fill my love bank. It's self-love (no jokes now) that opens the door, primes the savings account, and keeps the bank account sound even when times are tough.

My working hypothesis is that WSes experience a lot of pain and a sense of very low self-worth. They therefore reject a lot the love that comes their way, perhaps - probably - because they don't think they deserve it.

So, IMO, until after a WS does a lot of healing, there's no way to fill her love bank. She doesn't love herself, so she doesn't even open the door of her bank.

IDK - maybe Harley gets into that. I skimmed one of his books and didn't see anything along my lines of thought, but maybe I missed it.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10066 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Sisoon... Spot on. My wife has to be open to accepting love. During her A she was open to every ounce her AP offered her, and actually believed she thought she was getting more than she actually was. Meanwhile, back in her M to me she was shut down... Actually viewed me as the threat to filling her love tank.

There is a relationship here though..... I must learn to speak her love language and she must be open to listening as I. "Talk".

Her AP was simply looking to fuck her.....he is on to another woman now .... And my wife was not his first A. So not sure he was open to recieving or giving love.

Curious.....seems lake a lack of "something" leads a person to adultery....something internal. Maybe lack of nurturing as a child, conditional loving, something.....

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:01 PM, December 16th (Monday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3655 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Oldernotwiser
Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I guess I need to read all of what Dr. Harley says on infidelity, have to admit I did not because I was stunned that he said you can't resolve all the old stuff so need to focus on the present.
I might add that WS has really made strides in acting better, but he can't or won't *go there* in discussion because he read that when someone brings up the past they are being abusive. He said he is going to remind me that he isn't doing those things now and that he doesn't have to be abused for mistakes that are in the past. He has told me I am the one who is keeping us from enjoying a very good marriage now. He said he did those things earlier because he was immature, selfish and unprepared but now I am making a deliberate educated choice to live in the past, holding onto it because it is more comfortable to be angry than try to see how much better he is. Is it just me? Am I really just needing to get back at him, is that what motivates me to want to know more than a "cliff notes" of his choices? He is a pro at just letting a tiny bit of what went on out when we talk, and it seems to take a long time before he finally gives up another bit. IMO there has only been 1 piece of the puzzle ever offered by him and that was because I was going to contact OW #2 and he knew she would tell me immediately. Everything is first minimized and justified by how he thought I was mistreating him


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I began my R journey with reading Surviving An Affair.

One thing I will say, Harley knows how to blow up and expose an affair. Hands down.

Otherwise? Having read countless other books now, being in therapy for so long, on SI, researching etc.?

I will NEVER EVER EVER promote, recommend or otherwise Dr. Harley. He advocates rug sweeping and sometimes blame shifting. I understand the concept of the love bank, but there are flaws with it. His forums are filled with militants. I remember a story of a couple who literally bargain over fruit in the grocery store and never spend one moment away from each other outside of work.

No, Harley is a dangerous man to marriage.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

he read that when someone brings up the past they are being abusive. He said he is going to remind me that he isn't doing those things now and that he doesn't have to be abused for mistakes that are in the past. He has told me I am the one who is keeping us from enjoying a very good marriage now. He said he did those things earlier because he was immature, selfish and unprepared but now I am making a deliberate educated choice to live in the past, holding onto it because it is more comfortable to be angry than try to see how much better he is.

He doesn't get to say that until he has spent the years of effort it takes to resolve this shit.

If there's any abuse going on here, it's him by stomping on your side of the relationship.

He doesn't get to tell you how to heal or how you should feel. You get to be angry at what he did and you get to be angry at the shitty way he is handling things. Because you get to be a person who has just as much say in this as he does.

He is making an educated, deliberate choice to twist the knife by refusing to support the person he hurt. He is making you feel crazy, doubt yourself and question your motives - when he is the one who did all the damage to begin with.


eta:

I will even go so far as to say not only are you not in R due to the way he is treating you but I wouldn't be surprised if he is still in contact with someone. He is making a lot of effort to shut this all down hard and keep the focus on how it's your fault. Do you have access to his email and phone?

[This message edited by StillGoing at 8:51 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7444 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Later
Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

The formula of jumping straight to meeting the typical needs of a husband and wife as though no adultery had occurred would not work for me. That's what my wife was willing to give and that's why we are heading toward D rather than R. (Actually, ithe affair may have been a dealbreaker regardless but we will never know).

Obviously this approach ignore the fact that the BS has needs unique to someone who has been betrayed,

Perhaps more importantly, it ignores the fact that the WS has needs that are not being addressed, The WS needs to figure what the hell went wrong with his/her mind/heart/soul so that it can be addressed.

Reconciliation is a long painful process and it's simply not worth it IMO if the WS does nothing to address the issues,

Another thing is that if reconciliation is evaluated by the BS's acting like a newlywed then it seems destined to fail.

After one of our first incidents of HB my wife actually complained that I had not told her that I loved her during post discovery sex.

Seriously? I was working just to push aside mind movies. I was trying to figure out why the hell I was even in the same bed with her. And she had the nerve to complain that I had not told her I loved her?

Totally unrealistic.


Posts: 385 | Registered: May 2013
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I do think ideas from MB, such as meeting needs and enthusiasitic agreement, are good ones that every M can benefit from. Think about how your life would have been different if your spouse came to you and said "I met this man, am thinking about fucking him, do you enthusiasically agree with this choice?"

Love it, thanks for the laugh!

I have read two of his books, and wish I had read them pre-affair; I think it may have saved us. I think some of his ideas are fundamentally sound. But, I don't agree with the rug-sweeping, or the idea that our "needs" can be an excuse in any way. Our MC is clear that we are responsible to meet our own needs, and can only do that for each other to a certain degree. Certainly no true sense of self worth can be gained from another.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1949 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
foolishlycluless
Member
Member # 41404
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Several posters have mentioned this book: How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair

which I agree can be very helpful and would recommend. I think it helped my WH understand what I was going through, better than I could explain.


BW 55
WH 59
M 30 yrs, together 33 yrs, no children.
D-Day #1: 9/23/2013, EA 15+ months, PA with 34 YO business assoc
D-Day #2: 11/27/2013, OW, EA for 2-3 yrs (2005-2007), PA
D-Day #3: 6/6/2014, found the sex video
Status: Putting on my bitch bo

Posts: 111 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Washington DC
Oldernotwiser
Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Mind movies... They are so scary and so realistic, it makes me crazy. Why do they only happen sometimes? How can you stop the reaction to them? This might be TMI but I'm going to take a chance- my S leaned over to kiss me ,all I could see was that maneuver with her as the affair physically started w "kissing and moved to petting" my heart was pounding and I started feeling kind of sick. I had to turn my face away. It's like seeing his lips set me off. This can't go on ! You can't be married and have this happen unpredictably. I didn't say anything to my S, he doesn't understand triggers and has said they are BS. How long can I avoid doing that. I do better if I send my mind off somewhere else. Is that normal? Sometimes I think it is starting to make me crazy, even I feel like I should be doing much better by now


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I think one of the first sites I found was MB. I didn't go into the forums. I thought it was good information because I was in shock and already blaming myself. If my husband had an affair, it must be my fault. That's the only thing that made sense to me. I must have drove him to it. Obviously I didn't fill his love-bank. Somehow I have to fix this.

My husband was regretful and wanted everything to be smoothed over nice and easy. I felt like a Stepford wife for a bit, walking on eggshells and being grateful (yeah, grateful ), and he was love-bombing me. It all felt so strange. Hey, wait a minute, my love-bank had been empty for a long time but but I didn't cheat, even though I had time, opportunity and motive.

Then I found SI. THANK GOD......and I started to get angry. FTN It was all him, including the majority of the pre-affair issues in the marriage. He's changed a lot and things are infinitely better now.....hmmm, isn't that a coincidence.

Harley also says that WS and AP's are always at risk of the affair starting up again if they see each other. A risk of him running AP over with his car maybe, but that was about it. So he was off there too.

I agree, the information has merit when trying to build a marriage or it's hit the disillusionment stage, but not it the beginning of rebuilding after an affair.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

the focus is on meeting needs and enthusiastic agreement.

Okay. And your need is to discuss and work through his affair and have him answer your questions and support you. Is he "enthusiastically" doing this?


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1470 | Registered: Nov 2010
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Try to get him to read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/great-betrayals.html?ref=opinion I think this is required reading for any WS. I don't need to repeat what everyone else is saying: your WH isn't truly remorseful if he isn't listening to what you say you need. It's about you, not him, and he doesn't get that.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I will say, when I exposed I took a play out of the Harley handbook and people didn't know what hit them. No regrets. But, we kind of advocate the same type of exposure here.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4914 | Registered: Dec 2010
Oldernotwiser
Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Blobete, I realize he doesn't get it, he has told me to quit making a big deal of the past and appreciate how he has changed. He said after the second affair I NEVER had another one. He did cross boundaries with a young co-worker and has had a problem w porn. He explained that I should be seeing that he didn't do anything as bad as having affairs anymore. See how I changed?
I think a part of the issue is that we look like a great marriage on the outside. NOBODY is allowed to know. When I found the part that Harley wrote about exposure suddenly Harley had some flaws.
So Rachel are you saying you outed him? Mine said - if you do that you can just leave because that will just show how evil you are, you will look crazy. He also said that when I wanted to ask why his co workers were trying to tell me he was playing around at work with the young co worker. He said they were just trying to stir up crap and that he is with them everyday and they do this to everyone and then talk about them. He said now he has to act unfriendly w everyone and has to rush out of work so I won't be suspicious.
I will look up the article, thank you


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, December 17th (Tuesday)

So Rachel are you saying you outed him? Mine said - if you do that you can just leave because that will just show how evil you are,

I outed the OW to her employer and family and had they been co-workers I would have outed to the employer. I also didn't inform him I was going to do this.

He's manipulating you. Dont' fall for it. Decide what you can live with, do it, and let the chips fall where they may. If he still works with her NC must be established, a NC letter written and her spouse/BF informed. The reason you do this is so the affair stops, it's not some sort of evil revenge, it's extra eyes watching. Affairs are notorious for going underground. I'm guessing your husband's is.

I would not stay in a relationship where my husband worked with his AP. As it stands now they work 100 yards apart and I feel I'm much too generous with this even.

Good luck.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4914 | Registered: Dec 2010
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

OMG! If you want to point out his cherry picking and lack of understanding, go to the MB forums and read what they say about exposure. I also think they have the best badass approach there. He will crap himself.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
Gman1
Member
Member # 40879
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

As a BS, I read his book and found it very useful and used his exposure idea which worked to perfection within hours of me doing so. I am also sure that he does not advocate forgetting the past. Much of what I have read on this thread is not accurate or only partially true regarding his book. My WW also read the book and she thought it was very good as well. Just like anything else, not every single concept will work for every situation but he definitely does have some extremely useful information in his affair book. The OP's husband cherry picked a tiny fraction of what is in the book and twisted it around to fit him. The author is extremely supportive of the WS and much of what has been written here is simply false.

Posts: 220 | Registered: Oct 2013
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

FWH and I use marriage builders. It is great for building marriages.

It is not great for dealing with infidelity.

They want to save the marriage so badly, that they lose sight of what it takes to get through infidelity. We both feel like they baby the WS.

This is not the best resource for infidelity recovery. Save it for later. They have some great ideas, but only for after you have dealt with all this.

good luck.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1081 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

Oh, boy.
NOBODY is allowed to know
Who's setting the conditions here? Who's threatening you that if you DO expose, you'll look crazy? My FWH also HATED the idea that anyone would know what a shit he was. (Everyone thinks of him as the sweetest, kindest guy.) Sorry, fellow, you gotta live with the truth.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I think the MB stuff is a little misguided when it comes to a post-A M.

I don't trust the person who held up my love bank and robbed it, then drove a truck through it, to come waltzing up to the window and make a deposit. Trust needs to be rebuilt and that really gets lost, IMO.

Same with the agreement stuff. See, we theoretically already agreed to love, honor, be faithful, etc.. Didn't work so well, so, again, trust is a problem.

Rugsweeping doesn't work because it tells the offended party to suck it up and trust when all evidence tells them rationally to not do so. I wasn't really much into adding my name to the list of people who betrayed me, so I kinda stuck with being true to myself and my need to rebuild trust.
All the rest tends to be icing on a rotten cake if you don't address the core problems.

[This message edited by JustWow at 5:45 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3618 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Oldernotwiser
Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, December 19th (Thursday)

Need to clarify, the co worker moved on, but not while we were still slugging it out about her, She continued to email for over a year. Made sure she remembered his bday, kept him up on her life, made sure he knew she was not with anyone else etc. I did my best to explain why it was upsetting, what I needed, ( love bank stuff without knowing ).
He has a real fear about exposure. He is terrified of it. Our Priest does know, I did not intentionally tell him, he approached me at Church as I was alone and crying in a pew. I tried to act like I was fine but absolutely fell apart, I am sure most of what I said was unintelligible as I was crying so hard, he got the gist of it and tried to offer some advice. I admitted to WH that I had talked to the priest, H didn't talk to me for a week he was mad. Now has said, I guess you needed to confide in someone what you have been through. He said I don't like that you did it but I am not mad anymore about it. I think it is because after a few weeks and the Priest didn't do anything with the info he relaxed about his fear. Thank you to everyone on SI because I was really feeling crazy till I was able to "talk" to somebody.


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
Topic Posts: 40