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User Topic: what started as an argument has left me terrified.
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

I am likely going to ramble so please bear with me.
First is the background....my bh and I have had issues in the past where I have felt he has put our family second to work. Or he never wants to do anything fun because we dont have money or he is tired. In his defense, he is smarter than I am when it comes to finances and I know he is being cautious, but I feel like its also important to have special times and do family things. Usually if he says no to doing something we don't do it.

We hadn't made any plans for new years because its going to be a tough one for us (this is A season..... I moved out last year on new years day) but I wanted to do something special as a family. I asked him last night about maybe the three of us going to dinner and the movies tonight and he said no because he he has to work on the schedule for work ( it has to be done the last day of every month.) I was upset because I felt like he was choosing that over us. I didn't understand why he couldn't do the schedule later in the night...I was also hoping he would say maybe we could just do dinner, or go tomorrow, or suggest something else.

So i was grumpy and he asked what was wrong. I said i was angry and sad that we couldnt do anything.

The fight then erupted and he told me that he feels like i hate him....that thats how i was looking at him. He also asked if im even happy with him and want to be with him andmade a comment about " so much for us having a good year now".

He told me that he was afraid i was going to go running to the AP again since i was angry, and said later (once things had calmed down) that he was thinking about saying fuck the whole thing, that i have hurt him so much already why should he even stay with me.

He also said later that i need to realize this is a tough new years for him because of the A....which i understand but he never said that when i began talking about doing something and making plans.

I feel like the whole thing exploded into something else entirely and like i was wrong for being upset and hurt in the beginning. And now i am terrified if we argue or fight again he is just going to leave, and that i dont have a right to be unhappy with anything.

I dont know if i overreacted....maybe i did but i was hurt and sad that he couldnt compromise and think of something we could do so we would both be happy. And i understand how much i have hurt him and ruined things bw us, but didnt mean for it to turn into a fight about the A.


We didnt talk much this morning and i sent him a text apologizing and telling him i love him and dont want him to just say fuck it and give up, but i still feel like things arent ok and am scared of what will happen.

Thanks for listening to my ramble....any thoughts/insight are appreciated!! 


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 879 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

After years of conflict avoidance, I was finally able to argue with my BH. I am not advocating fighting! But hiding resentment is not good...

I think of it more as negotiation now.

2 night ago we had a real argument (in general we don't argue much at all). But it was sex-related and triggered the HELL out of my BH. He brought up the As and threatened to leave and was more angry than I have seen him in years!

But do you know what? It's ok. I stood my ground but I also apologize and reassured him. I didn't get defensive. And e was ok. Because we both know we have been through the worst of it, and survived. And an argument is not going to break us up .

My BH also worries that if I am unhappy I will cheat again. I always remind him that I have changed the way I cope and I would never put us through that again. That I think about it every day and that living genuinely now is the only thing that keeps me moving forward .


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1992 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

We didnt talk much this morning and i sent him a text apologizing and telling him i love him

First, let me say that I'm sorry you and your BH are having such a rough time. Just a friendly suggestion - say these things to him in person, or at least over the phone. Modern technology is great but this method of delivery seems a little impersonal. And conflict avoidant.


Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1461 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Ok, I'm going to probably ramble to. Still groggy and the coffee is trying to kick in.

my bh and I have had issues in the past where I have felt he has put our family second to work. Or he never wants to do anything fun because we dont have money or he is tired.
Welcome to my world. I can't tell you how many times me and the kids have been blown off for work. My primary LL is quality time. When he works till 10 pm for 3 weeks in a row, cancelling dates and evenings together for a stupid contract, it pisses me the heck off. I completely understand he has to make a living. I completely understand his burden to provide for the family. But I also understand that I haven't seen him in days, he hasn't had ANY time with the kids as they're in bed when he leaves and returns home in the middle of the night. There is a balance. There has to be.

Here's what I learned about QS. He's structured. Very anal, to the point of obsession. He's dedicated to furthering his career. And his anal/obsessive attitude pushes him further than he sometimes realizes. He also used work as an escape. Instead of talking to me about things, he would bury himself in work. Work is familiar, it's "safe", he doesn't have to think about life. And he would work to avoid the issues of life and its crazy complications.

He would go for weeks and not say anything to me. Then one day, he would finally blow. This epic verbal vomit. He questions everything, he hates what I've done, what I did to him, he feels worthless to me, he feels nothing towards me, why are we even trying to R, I don't need/want him, he's tired of suffering, why should we bother, he's a loser, he's tired of being dealt a bad hand. It would just go on and on.

And I would be thrown back in my seat. I had NO idea he was thinking this stuff. And he would take 2-3 months worth of crap, and throw it all in my lap at once. It was terrifying. I would be devastated for days. Crazy thing is, once he blew his top, he was all bouncy and happy again and I was a zombie for the next week as I tried to process and place everything he just dumped on me.

Anyway, we've had to learn how to communicate. And I have had to learn SENSITIVITY towards him. To sloooowwwwww down and really think things thru. And yes, even how to work on my quality time alone, if/when he doesn't. What IIiiiii want isn't always best of US. What Iiiiiii think is an awesome idea isn't best for US. And I've had to really think thru MY wants and "needs" to ensure it's healthy for me AND us. Make sense?

We hadn't made any plans for new years because its going to be a tough one for us (this is A season..... I moved out last year on new years day)
Completely understandable.
but I wanted to do something special as a family.
So what you want is more important than anything else? Your "want" for something new trumps A season?

Could your husband do the paperwork later? Probably. But if he's anything like my husband, later isn't good. It has to be NOW, because that is what structure demands. And there is nothing wrong with that. That's what he's always done. You should know and accept this. Just like I have had to do.

Example: Since the day we got married, I have always tried to greet QS at the back door with a kiss when he came home from work. But when he would walk in the door and I tried to snuggle, he would push me aside and walk to the kitchen. Structure says, put up the keys, wallet, and cell phone, and clean out the lunch box. THEN and only then is his work day complete and he can kick back and relax. Only then will he be responsive to my hugs and kisses. So now, when he comes home, I holler "Hey Babe!" from whatever room I'm in, and I wait till he's done doing his thing, then I seek him out, and show my love to him. And we're both totally ok with that. I've learned to accept that about him.

Y'all hadn't made plans due to A season, but YOU got the super awesome idea to do something new. You had it all figured out. But did you take into account his feelings? Did you take into account at how much this time of the year would impact him?

So i was grumpy and he asked what was wrong.
Or in more simple terms, you didn't get your way and you threw a fit. He didn't give you the answer YOU wanted, and you got angry. Instead of discussing things and asking his feelings, you assumed, jumped to conclusions, and made it all about you.

He also said later that i need to realize this is a tough new years for him because of the A....which i understand but he never said that when i began talking about doing something and making plans.
And you never asked. You KNEW it was A season. You knew this would be difficult. But you made plans in your mind, then got angry when he didn't automatically jump on it. Did you ASK him how he felt or what he wanted to do? Or did you go straight from your bright idea of a new plan to anger?

See how that works Alyssa?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

What Sal said.

Just wanted to add...every argument becomes about the A at least for a few years. Your BH may feel like you are criticizing him. It is very hard to separate out the preexisting M problems and work on those when you are still in the post-apocalyptic phase.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1992 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

I think I can help you fill in the blanks on what is going on with your H.


which i understand but he never said that when i began talking about doing something and making plans.

this is A season..... I moved out last year on new years day) but I wanted to do something special as a family.

I would bet my last nickel the "day" and leading up to it, it has been on his mind constantly. What you have seen "lately," is restraint on his part. He is trying. Believe someone who has walked that path, it is exhausting and self defeating on the worst kind of levels.


He told me that he was afraid i was going to go running to the AP again

The worst fear any BS trying to make things work has is this. That fear is always on his mind. Happy family time is likely going to be a huge trigger. In all honestly, this is the first new years day after. He is going to be more than fragile and he probably is just working his ass off to try and hold it together without lashing out at you. He is trying to protect you. It doesn't mean he is better, he just got better at suppressing it.

that he was thinking about saying fuck the whole thing, that i have hurt him so much already why should he even stay with me.

Self defense mechanism at play here. He is building a wall because he still does not feel safe. He would rather not give you the option to hurt him again, despite that not being what he wants, even if it means losing you. That fear is that real and that painful. He would cut off the part that causes the pain. It won't, but he thinks it does.

Which brings me back to the full sentence from earlier.


He also said later that i need to realize this is a tough new years for him because of the A....which i understand but he never said that when i began talking about doing something and making plans.

In the interest of helping you see this, I don't think you do understand on the level you think you do. You are passively dismissing a core concern of his here. The date is a trigger to him. He can't celebrate something that is barely hanging on. He is hanging on by a thread.

The fear, forcing yourself to be vulnerable and just trying to believe the worst is behind you takes so much energy and strength. Adding in being pushed into triggery things on or the day before a big antiversary date. How else could he react ?

He got backed into a corner and like a wounded animal, emotional self preservation kicked in.

The work thing is a convenient way to avoid the topic at hand. That is a bogus reason for not agreeing to it. Again he is trying to protect you from what he really wants to say about it. He is angry at you for putting him in this position.

You are part of the family and as such, anything related to that, especially this close to day the you left, is going to make him afraid. You like your birthday or chistmas, right ? New years could that, but the direct polar opposite of that.

He is afraid, he does not feel safe and is concerned about your future. He does not want to be made a fool again. The last attempt to do something as a family, increased his fear that you are going to think things are now "all better." As he said it is going to be hard this year.

I dont know if i overreacted....maybe i did but i was hurt and sad that he couldn't compromise and think of something we could do so we would both be happy.

Being this forum, I will leave the first part alone. Compromises. He has agreed to work things out with you, going back on most of the related values he has on the topic of fidelity. He is compromised out right now. A different fear is that any, and I mean any compromise he makes, chips way at his self esteem and adds to his internal dialogue that by taking you back, "he is letting you get away with it." Or worse that he is weak, a doormat,a chump, cuckold. BTDT way too often.

Show him your pain, sadness and concrete consequences you suffer. Own your actions in way you have not done so before. Words or a even letters probably will not work. He isn't going to take any leaps of faith in the M until time has passed after the antiversary season or he can see that you are suffering too.

Spend some time looking at his actions and the fear, self loathing and date inducing triggers behind them. Do something concrete/action oriented to address them. It may take more than one.

Follow his lead on the new years thing, and by doing so, you will show him you understand him a little better than you used to.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2568 | Registered: May 2010
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

BH here. Just wanted to address a couple of points
I was upset because I felt like he was choosing that over us. I didn''t understand why he couldn''t do the schedule later in the night...
Ok, I get that you felt that way. Did you sit down with him and explain this and give him a chance to respond? Be forewarned that a BS during A season may not be able to articulate very well at first. Patience is a true virtue.

I was also hoping he would say maybe we could just do dinner, or go tomorrow, or suggest something else.
So you had a specific expectation in your mind and he didn''t live up to it which in turn made you upset. I would advise you to be extremely careful about this kind of thinking. It essentially puts him in the position of failing a test he didn''t even know he was taking.

Lastly I would work on this...

So i was grumpy and he asked what was wrong. I said i was angry and sad that we couldnt do anything.
...and not putting him in the position of having to ask what is wrong. Go to him. Talk to him. Yes, it may be a fight but being more proactive in your communication is vital. Part of the reason he was afraid you might run to the AP is that nagging thought "What if I hadn''t asked her what was wrong? How long would she have stayed mad at me quietly? How long would that anger have festered before she went to someone else, anyone other than me?"

I know you didn''t mean for it to turn into a fight about the A. However, on some level your BH (and many BS) know the A was a broken coping mechanisms for other things. So when it seems like things might be going bad it is a visceral reaction to wonder if that same coping mechanism might kick in again.

Overall I think this is progress. You''re looking at these things differently than you did before. You''re questioning them and talking with him more. I agree with Sal. Follow up your text with something direct. Remind him that the issue is doing something as a family (and a couple) and that the only solution you''re looking for is to spend time as a family/married couple.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4007 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

BS here. I think Aubrie nailed it.

A suggestion from a BS, and I know, I can only speak about my experiences and feelings, but based on what you wrote, your H may be doing what I had a tendency to do - not bring it up, but it is absolutely affecting me.

You said you knew it was A season, and given that you moved out one year ago on NYD, I can only imagine how NYE was for you, for him, for your family. I'm imagining it was painful. I'm imagining your H was filled with fear over what would become of his family and his life. I imagine he vividly remembers that day, and NYD, and it's very raw right now because he hasn't been through another one, so he has no 'new' memories to cover the old.

Yes - you were asking to do something, and that would have created new memories, but, and no offense here, it sounds much more of a 'hey, let's do something - it's New Year's" than it does "I'm sorry this is a tough time of year. I'm going to do something special this year, for you, to try and heal some of the negative feelings you get at this time of year'. You're not obligated to do something special, but behaving like it's any other day is probably not a good idea.

Many BSs - myself included - have a tendency to NOT want to bring up the A every day after a while. We don't want to say "I don't want to watch that movie because I know you and OP discussed it" or "I don't want to eat at that restaurant, because I know OP goes there (or used to) and I'm not interested in seeing him, or thinking of him". There are just some things we don't want to say, but we hope you know. When it comes out that you don't, it can appear that you don't care.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE TO BLAME OR THAT YOU DON'T CARE. I AM ONLY OFFERING ONE POSSIBLE THOUGHT THAT MAY HAVE AFFECTED YOUR H.

So he brushed it off as work, and then you became unhappy. Now he feels like he doesn't make you happy, and is worried that you'll leave again. It's a no win sometimes for a BS too.

I know you've been working very hard Alyssamd24, and I'm sure your BH knows this and appreciates it. But it is still raw for him - less than a year - and he's still learning how to deal with these feelings, just as you are.

Patience on both sides will come. Just try not to get upset at things, and if there is any possibility that something may trigger your BH, you're probably best to just avoid it completely. He'll let you know if he's interested.

What you could possibly do is make a special dinner - his favorite perhaps - by him a nice romantic card, light a few candles, and make the evening about him and your new year together. I bet he'd like that. Well, I know I would LOL


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)

What Aubrie said.

I was also hoping he would say maybe we could just do dinner, or go tomorrow, or suggest something else. So i was grumpy and he asked what was wrong.

Translation, I was feeling sad and angry, and instead of using my words like a big girl, I moped and expected BH to read my mind. When I passively hinted to BH, by my grumpy attitude (and probably some pouting and foot-stomping) that something was wrong...when he asked about it I let him know that (unlike him, who prioritizes work!) I think family time is important.

And you''re surprised he erupted?

Oh Alyssa, I''m being a bit sarcastic and harsh, sorry, but if your account of the events is accurate, you need a complete communication overhaul. What you''re doing is making him wrong, and men (OK probably everyone, but IMO especially men, and especially BH) fucking hate that.

I have felt he has put our family second to work.

Really? Why do you think he works so hard? To provide for the family. I know you''re not a SAHM, and I don''t mean to minimize your financial contributions. But putting the family second to work? Girl, please, at least he didn''t sit and text his AP in front of you. You put quality time with the family second to getting your emotional needs met outside the M. When you moved out of the family home, you were still seeing your AP. And a few months later, you''re complaining that he put the family second? Sorry, my friend, but...hypocrite much?

On the advice of another member (BikingGuy I think?) I started reading a book last night that I think you need to read. Immediately. It''s got a rather sexist slant, IMO, but it addresses exactly the issue that you and BH appear to be having.

(Oops, we gotta go pick up children from a play date, will finish this post in a bit.)


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1248 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

The book, and again, I''m not fond of the title, is

Men, Women, and the Power of Empathy
You Can Really Connect with Him

by A.R. Maslow

In your post I''m seeing you express your feelings and desires...
I feel like it''s important to have special times and do family things
I wanted to do something special
I was upset
I was hoping...
I was grumpy
I was angry and sad
I am terrified
I am hurt

...and only seeing you complain about BH instead of considering his feelings.
He never wants to do anything fun
he was choosing work over us
he never said [this is a tough New Year''s for him] when i began talking
i dont have a right to be unhappy with anything
..and saving the best one for last...

he couldn''t compromise and think of something we could do so we would both be happy

Umm...he couldn''t compromise? You didn''t even try! Compromise is a two-way street, Alyssa, and BH is the only one driving. He says no to dinner and a movie, and you go away and pout. Those are some great negotiating skills. How about, "You work so hard on that schedule every month, I bet you wish you could get a break from it since it''s kind of a holiday, and I understand it''s an important responsibility you have as [manager of XYZ Company...I assume he''s in a management position if he does the schedule]. Are you open to considering some other options that would allow us some family fun time, before or after your work is done?"

You''re getting great advice, here, Alyssa. Read and re-read the posts from the Menz (BHs).

Remind him that the issue is doing something as a family (and a couple) and that the only solution you''''re looking for is to spend time as a family/married couple.

...but only if you can do it without copping the attitude you did in this post, i.e., "I feel it''s important to do family things, but you never want to do anything fun because we come second to your work!"


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1248 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Thanks for everyone who has replied....I knew that I was going to get different views from mine which is why I posted....to see how others (and indirectly my BH) felt about the situation. But I do want to respond to some stuff:

Aubrie,
Y'all hadn't made plans due to A season, but YOU got the super awesome idea to do something new. You had it all figured out. But did you take into account his feelings? Did you take into account at how much this time of the year would impact him?

I did take his feelings into account, I knew he wouldn't want to do anything huge for the new year which is why I didn't suggest going out....I thought if anything he would want to do a family thing. Before I even thought about what we could do I did ask him if he wanted to do something special and he said yes.

And as usual, thank you for your input!!! I really do appreciate it!

numb&dumb,
Thank you so much for your response, all that you said was extremely helpful and insightful!!

Painful Past,

and no offense here, it sounds much more of a 'hey, let's do something - it's New Year's" than it does "I'm sorry this is a tough time of year. I'm going to do something special this year, for you, to try and heal some of the negative feelings you get at this time of year'.

I didnt mean for it to sound this way, but I can see it.....my thought process was I knew this was going to be an especially hard time for him since last year was awful, so I was trying to plan something so we could make new memories....kinda a new year, new start thing if that makes sense...not that I was trying to NOT focus on his feelings, but I guess I was trying to give him something else to focus on? I really did have good intentions.

Twenty,
You haven't had a chance to finish yet, so I will respond after you do!!!


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 879 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

we cross posted,

I will check out the book....I have two others that I read to need first ( The New Codependence and Surviving an Affair) but will add it tomy list.

Really? Why do you think he works so hard? To provide for the family. I know you''re not a SAHM, and I don''t mean to minimize your financial contributions. But putting the family second to work? And a few months later, you''re complaining that he put the family second? Sorry, my friend, but...hypocrite much?

Yes I agree it does make me a hyprocrite....I made many fucked up, selfish choices over the last year. But I am trying to repair the damage I have done and am trying to be a better person.

I understand that with this whole fight it basically comes down to me being selfish and putting my own wants/needs before my BH's. But like I said, I did have good intentions, I wasn't doing it cuz I was trying to torture him or be controlling, I was doing it so the three of us could spend some time together and make a special family memory.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 879 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

OMG, Alyssa, if you say "but" one more time I''m gonna reach through the computer and smack you.

You''ve come a long way, *but* you''re still blaming BH for your unhappiness. Quit it.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1248 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

What 20 said.

C'mon Alyssa. Read what you're saying. Think about what you're saying. If it helps, pretend it's another SIer saying it. What would you tell them? What would you think?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

I would probably say exactly what the two of you are saying....


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 879 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
floridaredman
Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

I wasn't doing it cuz I was trying to torture him or be controlling, I was doing it so the three of us could spend some time together and make a special family memory.

This may have been your intention in part. I can see that. If it was the intention, and you knew he Could be triggering, then why show that you were upset? Didn't you know he would notice that? Was it your intention for him to notice you were upset?
If it was, you manipulated him intentional or unintentional, it would be manipulation. You've Come along way, still a little ways to go.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2537 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Changing the subject a little, is there something you can do that doesn't involve going out since that seems to be a little trigger for him? Make a special dinner? Get some junk food and funny movies, and then some wine/beer/Pepsi for later?

It's not too late to salvage today and work on the big stuff tomorrow


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37461 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Alyssa!!! You know I'm rooting for you and I've reached out to you, so please know I'm saying this from that stand point.

Your intention may have been good, but the manner in which you delivered it? Was not.

It's A season. He's triggering like hell. He may not be able to be vulnerable right now. He may be hurting and doesn't want you to see the depth of it. He may be very well pissed off and doesn't WANT to spend time with you despite what he said a couple days ago about it. Feelings change all the time. Especially around a trigger time like this.

I had EVERY intention on DDay1 antiversary of taking back the day. Yeah, it so did not work that way. At all. I even told my husband that's what I was hoping for, then I crashed and burned, badly. I didn't mean for it to happen, but it did.

The whole "pouting/grumpy" is manipulation. I HATE when my husband does this because it's passive aggressive behavior and I can't deal with that any more. Not now, not after everything else I've put up with. I would have gotten very angry at that too.

What could you have done better? Let's break it down:

Alyssa: BH, I know that this is a rough time of the year, especially since this is the first antiversary since my affair came out. I'm not sure how you're feeling with all of the emotions. Would you like me to plan something for us tomorrow as a family to try and create some new special memories? Would you like me to just be here and comfort you as you need? What can I do for you to help make the day easier for you?

Then, he could have replied in many other ways. You would have been able to get an accurate view of how he wanted to handle the day. He would know that you were putting HIS feelings first. Instead of expecting him to suggest other options, that way you'd be giving him the opportunity to be open about his wishes instead of reading your mind. Because, he can't.

Basically when you told him that you were angry/sad with him that he was "choosing" work over you and your daughter, you were telling him he was rejecting you. He sees it differently. He's making sure that he can support you, which is definitely NOT a rejection, but you basically just told him it was.

I also agree with whomever said it was hypocritical, because how many times did you choose your AP over your family? How many times did you reject him in favor of your AP? How many times did you lie to him to spend time with your AP thus choosing yourself over him?

He's still hurting. Him lashing out saying you've hurt him and why should he even stay with you? That's pain. I've said the same thing to my husband many times. Do I want to leave him? No. It's a way of putting out my pain however. I've said a whole lot worse too, believe me. And think about it, just what a week or two ago, you broke mental NC by searching for your AP, meaning he's got a valid fear of you running back to your AP!!!

He shouldn't HAVE to say that this is a tough New Years, you should KNOW that. You shouldn't make plans without including him fully.

This is your opportunity to be there for him and reassure him, every day. Yes, you have done a lot of work, but you have so much more to do.

P.S. I seriously would not recommend you finish reading Surviving An Affair. Dr. Harley is not the best in fixing marriages after an affair. There are so many other books out there. If you want suggestions, I'd be happy to share.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

I would probably say exactly what the two of you are saying...

Brave admission, I'm proud of you!


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1248 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Hey Alyssa,
I'll second what others have said. You messed up, but I think you know that and you know I'm rooting for you! But here is what my husband has done on anniversary dates and maybe it could help.

For example, I have emails from him telling his ex AP he loved her on our anniversary for two years in a row. That date is a huge trigger for me. So this year he said "I will let you decide how you want to spend the day because I know it will be hard for you. So if you want to do something, great, if you don't even want me in the house, fine. But you don't need to worry about me or our anniversary; whatever you need is what we'll do." Maybe you should go back to your husband and tell him you're sorry and that for tomorrow you will let him lead the way? It's all about what he needs tomorrow because it's going to be a very hard day for him. You CAN turn this around, as long as you understand the way you came across and admit to him that you see it.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
devotedfool68
Member
Member # 38047
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Many BSs - myself included - have a tendency to NOT want to bring up the A every day after a while. We don't want to say "I don't want to watch that movie because I know you and OP discussed it" or "I don't want to eat at that restaurant, because I know OP goes there (or used to) and I'm not interested in seeing him, or thinking of him". There are just some things we don't want to say, but we hope you know. When it comes out that you don't, it can appear that you don't care.
{painfulpast}


OMG, SO THIS^^^^^^^^^^


BH 46
WW 38 (Lost94)
DS 17
DS 15
AP - friend of a friend of WW - complete stranger, predatory KISA

many DDays, primary 7/4/2012 and 8/10/2012
timeline of the highlights 11/1/2013

Holding on to hope.


Posts: 242 | Registered: Jan 2013
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

I really did have good intentions.

I never thought otherwise, not for a minute. It's hard for people, on either side of this issue, to 'learn' the new rules. That's been my experience at least, and I've seen a lot of examples here on SI that seem to back that theory up. Is it true for all? I couldn't say, but I do know that these kinds of misunderstandings do happen in a lot of relationships in R.

I do hope you saw that my post was only some suggestions you could try, and not me attempting to tell you how to 'fix' your marriage.

One thing I've found in my home that seems to work best are the things that aren't said. Using your situation as an example (since we all already know the backdrop):

You know this is a touchy time of year for your H, and for you. You want to do something, for the new memories, in an effort to not sit around dwelling on it, and because it's a nice opportunity to do something as a family. In an effort to not make it seem like you're intentionally trying to make new memories, because maybe that will be seen as you believing that one night out can take the pain away, you propose the evening very casually. Your H says 'no, I have to work'. Maybe he does, or maybe he's just avoiding even thinking about you, the M, the A, any of it. Maybe he wants to preoccupy himself.

You see that as him not wanting to do anything, not wanting to make new memories, not wanting to be 'a family' and that can hurt. It can feel like he won't let you fix things, or even to get those small victories where things a really good for an evening, or an afternoon, or a morning. You become frustrated. Because tensions are high, he immediately sees that as your unhappiness with everything, and not just with the one evening.

Somehow, your invite to dinner and a movie has turned into (for you) him not wanting to spend time with you and (to him) a sign that you're not happy and may leave the marriage.

How in the hell did this happen? This is the opposite of what you were hoping for.

Well, the manner that we say things can matter. You didn't want to bring up the A, so you asked casually. He didn't want to bring it up, so he brushed it all off and decided to work.

As good as your intentions were, they may have been seen as very casual, and as discounting his feelings given the time of year.

What if, instead of asking casually, you had sat down next to him, put your arms around his neck, and said this:

"You know what would be great honey? If you would let me take you and (child) to dinner, and then maybe to a movie. I would really love to spend the evening with my two favorite people, and i was hoping you'd indulge me and let me show you a great time."

or something along those lines. You aren't bringing up the A, but you aren't acting casual about the day. You are saying he's important to you, and that you'd love to do something special.

Of course, you do have to be prepared for him to say no, but if he does, you could say something like:

"Ok honey, I know you need to get the schedule done. How about if I make you your favorite dinner instead so you can finish the schedule, and if time allows we could still go see the movie?"

He'll probably say no to this one (don't go to the trouble, etc.) but you can always insist on this one. I don't think he'll skip dinner.

Obviously, these are only suggestions, but I hope my general thoughts here make sense. I may be very off base, since you know your husband and history, and I don't. If you don't feel this is the right approach for you, maybe you may be able to come up with what might be a better approach?

I would bet anything that your H knows you're trying, and that you're remorseful. I don't want to discount that - it makes a world of difference to a BS - well, to those that I've interacted with - and it is the biggest key to successfully reconciling. The smaller things now can avoid the misunderstanding that, during R, can seem like mountains to overcome.

I think you're doing a really great job at this. I know that it's your H's opinion that matters. I just wanted toss some support your way.



The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, January 1st (Wednesday)

Thank you again for all the responses. I appreciate everyone's input and see now where I was wrong and not being sensitive to my bhs feelings, which is what should have been my first priority.

We had a very nice new years....we made pizza and snacks, had icecream sundaes, played games, and watched movies.....and the three of us had a sleepover in our living room!!


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 879 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Topic Posts: 23