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User Topic: Stick a fork in me
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Flame  Posted: 2:39 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

I'm done. So done with FOO, I cannot even begin to tell you. If I never see or talk to them again, I'm completely happy with that.

I've been NC and living relatively peacefully. The holidays are over. That should have been my last major hurdle right? Wroooong.

My sister is going thru another pregnancy loss. Third one in a year's span. Two other girls in our social circle just had miscarriages. To say that my sister is struggling, is a gross understatement.

My sister gets a text from Mother this morning to check on the status of the baby. Little sister gets permission from her husband to call and give her the update. Ok fine. After exactly two questions about the baby, the conversation takes a turn.

Poor wittle mommy. Her kids won't talk to her. She was burned with friendships in the past and she's not going to get hurt again. M'k, so you're talking about relationships with random people versus your CHILDREN. We're not worth an effort. Ok, got it. My sister was accused of going to Mother's friends, giving her slanted view, and causing Mother's friends to give off "weird vibes".

Are you freaking kidding me!?!?!?!?!?

My sister's child is dead and all you want to talk about is your stupid feelings and how life is freaking unfair to you!? You want to talk about how miserable you are!?

I'm ashamed to call her my parent. I'm so angry I can't see straight. Just how heartless does a person have to be to call a woman up, with a dead baby in her womb, and cry about their own stupid issues!?

I'm so done. So. Done. Relationship? What relationship? There is none. I have no parents. They are a couple of people that birthed us and then ditched us when we quit bowing down and worshiping them.

And for the record, those friends that my sister "snitched" to? Yeah, two people approached her and asked if she was ok, were things ok. When she opened up just a little tiny bit, those friends laid it out. My sister didn't have to say anything. They see right thru my parents. So there is no dang slanted freakin' view. They formed their own opinions based on their own experiences. Those "weird vibes"? Yeah, that's what's left of their guilty conscience.

Am I completely losing my mind? Am I looking at this wrong? What in the world am I missing? I feel like I am the bad guy and all I want my little family of QS and the kids. I want space. Sanity. To not feel guilted, forced, or obligated into doing stuff. Why in the world is that so wrong!?That's the whole freaking point of growing up and moving out on your own.

Guys, I'm struggling. I know, I know. High road, NC, blah freaking blah. Somewhere alone the line comes the whole "acceptance and move along" bit.

Dunno when I'll get there. When this stupid stuff will quit affecting me. How to make it stop for good. Ya know, aside from doing something completely illegal.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6315 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

(((((((((Aubrie)))))))))))))

You're doing a good job not to engage. Letting go is a process that takes a long time. Don't be hard on yourself for letting this get to you. My heart aches for you and your sister... to have to deal with this on top of a personal tragedy is so stressful.

I have a book recommendation. It's by a Buddhist nun who has very respectful and positive views of Christianity. (In case there was a concern )

Pema Chodron's book, "When Things Fall Apart" has done wonders for me in terms of learning how to let things go. I'm not all high on the mountain with perfect peace or anything - I still have BIG reactions to things that I wish I could just shrug off... but this book has been instrumental for me in getting those emotional hooks detached when I start to feel pulled in any direction by someone who is toxic and wants me in their space.

Let's not be surprised that your mom is like this. Let's expect it, and remember that she is coming from a dark place. Don't be furious at her - feel compassion for her that she has ZERO clue how to relate to anyone in a healthy way.

Prayers and hugs to you and your sister. You're getting stronger than this every day, even if it's hard to see right now.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17860 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
SurprisinglyOkay
Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

I'm so sorry!

We all have family issues, but I'm just so sorry.

You are not wrong. You are not missing anything. You are getting healthy and they are not.

(((Aubrie & your sis))))


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1134 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Let's not be surprised that your mom is like this. Let's expect it, and remember that she is coming from a dark place. Don't be furious at her - feel compassion for her that she has ZERO clue how to relate to anyone in a healthy way.
I get it. She came from an abusive home. She's married to my crazy NPD Dad. She wouldn't know healthy if it slapped her in the face. I feel bad that her life has sucked and continues to suck. And that having a relationship with her kids is a relatively easy fix that she just can't comprehend. It's sad to be on the outside, seeing the total dysfunction, and not be able to help her.

But she has lost a child. She KNOWS the pain. And she knows the struggle my sister has gone thru. And she couldn't talk to her 5 minutes without making it all about her!? It's hard not to be furious about that. She darn well knows the pain of child loss. And she trampled over my sister's loss in the name of "hurt feelings" and "weird vibes". THAT is what pisses me off so badly. I struggle with finding compassion for that.

I'll look into the book. Thanks for the rec.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 3:05 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6315 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

I struggle with finding compassion for that.
For the time being, don't try to find compassion in that. Instead, use the knowledge you have about her FOO to reach acceptance. She is who she is. She is never going to be anything else. Aubrie, the sooner you truly, TRULY accept this, the less you will be impacted by the crazy.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5980 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Joanh
Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

I get what your saying.

Its so hard when you start seeing the unhealthy behaviors where they come from and why there there. And want so bad for them to get it.

To understand what they are doing. Maybe have that wake up call, that hit the bottom and life needs to be better I need my family, and the fact she /they didn't hear you or your sister, is devasting. And so frustrating.

My BH the other day, got upset with me, because, my daughter manage to do something proactive and beneficial and I said how proud and hopeful I was of her. ( She has in the past continuously got my hopes up and to smash them) Well he triggered on that then explained to me why.

I have allways hoped and expected great things from people, that if I give them chances over and over again they won't fail me. Now I have believed this to the point it has been detrimental to my mental and spiritual and emotional health. I expect this of people and take it personally when they don't do what they should.

And he is right, I do this with my mother and my sisters too, think it will be awsome and boom, my world is turned upside down and he's trying to make me feel better and let me know I didn't..... whatever wa the problem of the day was.

I have a girlfriend I deal with on a continuos basis as well. You talk to her about anything and it ends up being about her.

Because I still want to believe people can change I keep hoping and keep leaving myself open. If it wasn't for the fact I know you and I have changed and have done the work, and that it can happen, I would give up. I'm just starting to accept some people can't , won't or are just comfortable where their at. No matter what their loss, They will allways be a victim.

I am sorry your back there again, dealing with your mom. You are strong and be proud you can be there for your sister and for yourself.

I will be thinking about you and praying for your sister and her baby.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 437 | Registered: Apr 2013
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

((((Aubrie))))

It really sucks that you can't choose your family. And I know *just* what you're saying here:

And she couldn't talk to her 5 minutes without making it all about her!?

Not to t/j and make this all about ME ( ), but I've had similar experience my SIL (brother's wife). So yeah. What sucky bad luck in having to deal with ANY people like this, much less close family.

It's hard not to feel guilty, but you are doing the right thing by trying to disengage. Keep walking away and don't look back. You aren't missing out on anything. Not. a. thing.

And I'm sorry about sis angel baby I meant to post in the other thread, but haven't gotten there yet.

Hugs all around. Sending you peaceful thoughts and a super duper invisible anti-foo shield as a backup.


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2615 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

(((Aubrie))) Everyone else has given you good advice. Just wanted to let you know I understand. You know it is the right thing to detach from your parents, but that is sooooo much easier said then done.

Baby steps, you will get there, just keep moving forward. I am so sorry that you continually get hurt by your parents.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9801 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
lemony.2008
Member
Member # 20125
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

((((Aubrie))))
((((Aubrie's little sister and husband))))

I'm so so sorry about your sister, I can't even imagine the pain and devastation she's going through right now.

There is no words to describe your mother, I'm so sorry you have to deal with her toxicity. I have NC with members of my family because my life is better without them. I know they're blood family, but we don't share common values such as love, support, understanding, kindness.

I second Jrazz's book recommendation, in my opinion, all of Pema's books have been tremendously helpful to me.

Sending healing thoughts and prayers for you and your sister.


Feel the feelings and drop the story. - Pema Chodron


Posts: 2243 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

the sooner you truly, TRULY accept this, the less you will be impacted by the crazy.
I understand. It's just getting it all processed and becoming "habit" for me. Positive step forward is I can recognize the manipulation/crap processes as they're happening. I'm learning to accept, little by little, that it's just who they are and they're never going to change. I've also learned that there's no conversing with them if they don't change. So, NC. Now if I can get to the part where it doesn't affect me at all, we're golden.

Haven't had a relationship with the parents since Oct. 13th. Each day I'm stronger and my "give a dang" breaks even more.

I'm listening to everyone. Taking your words to heart. Thanks for letting me vent today.

ETA: Someone sent me a message and suggested that I write a letter to both my parents, but not send it. I guess as an exercise to get all the ugly out. Don't know how that would work. There's some nasty stuff swirling in my head. I would hate to see it written out.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 8:25 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6315 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Steppenwolf
Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

((((Aubrie))))

Expectations are just self will. You can only control your actions and reactions, so just focus on that. From what I've read over the past year, you seem like an emotionally strong and balanced individual. It's unfortunate that not many people are, and it especially sucks when people close to you act with such insensitivity. But, that's what they do.
I've tried to remove any expectation of my father following through on anything he promises to me or my children, and I'm happier; I'm content.
Meditation helps me.


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Don't know how that would work. There's some nasty stuff swirling in my head. I would hate to see it written out.

I hope you don't consider this out of line, but isn't this similar to you writing out your timeline? I'm sure that you didn't do that because you were so pumped up at the prospect of seeing it all written out. Rather it was to have it there for QS if/when he wanted it (iirc).

But I also remember you posting about the effect this 'exercise' had on you, and that even though difficult it was ultimately of some therapeutic value to you as well - am I right?

Because you wouldn't have to write these 'letters' all at one sitting, or even in letter form necessarily. You could work on it in small chunks if that would help you. You might think of it more as a collection of your thoughts, or feelings, or messages you wish they were capable of understanding, or .... the sky's the limit really if you're not going to send it to them anyway.

You might consider writing it from a 3rd party neutral observer point of view, that could help to defuse some of the powerful emotions you are experiencing.

Not pretty to confront these issues or to see all the horror once it's out in written form, but it could help you process this yuck and in that way be of great benefit to you.

And I know that if there is anyone here who could address this challenge, it's you. I greatly admire the courage that it took for you to work on your timeline without being 'forced' to, and then to share this difficult experience in the forum was truly amazing.

Anyway, I encourage you to at least think about it.

I'm so sorry that you are hurting over this. Sending you continued strength.

((((Aubrie))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2615 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

I'm on the other side of this, Aubrie.

My sister and her husband have been waiting until they've refurbished our late grandparents' house (a family battle in and of itself) until trying to have children, which my sister has ALWAYS wanted. Come to find out a few months ago, she has cervical cancer. First round of surgery, still has it. Second round of surgery (right around Christmas), STILL has it.

Chances are now that she won't have kids because of this. It's horrible. Only, I don't know how my sister feels because she hardly talks to me and my mother and I are still trying to recover our relationship, so I barely know what's going on.

I actually WANT to be part of things, but because I either actively ruined or passively sabotaged (not sure which) my relationships with my FOO, I only get to read posts on Facebook instead of helping my family overcome this problem. It sucks.

But, hey ... I support you. I think you have the tougher road, and I'm not envious, but I appreciate being along for the journey and trying to help you through your struggles.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

(((Aubrie)))
I greatly admire the courage that it took for you to work on your timeline without being 'forced' to, and then to share this difficult experience in the forum was truly amazing.
Me too. I don't post in this forum much, but I have so much respect for you. Your posts are so down to earth and inspiring and full of so much hard-earned wisdom.
And I know that if there is anyone here who could address this challenge, it's you.
So I feel that way also. I am so sorry that you have to deal with this issue, it is so difficult when we have to learn to accept our parents the way they are. I deal with some parental issues also, but not the same type you are having to deal with. It is so hard to come to the acceptance that they are who they are, and that is all they will ever be. It helps me to remember they are their own persons, with their own souls, on their own journey in this life. Just because they are blood to me doesn't mean they don't have their own path to walk, and it isn't my job to try to make them change so I am comfortable or happy. I do think, though, that if they are toxic to you that putting some distance (physical and/or emotional) is a good idea.

I too think that writing your feelings down about your mom may help. You can always burn the paper when you are finished, but there is something very cathartic about hand-writing your feelings out.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 10:17 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15291 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 3:03 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I'm sorry for sister's loss and your continuing struggle with your FOO Aubrie.

Have you considered the silver lining?

At least you and your sister are'nt like your parents.

I wish you serenity.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Scorpio2310
Member
Member # 41561
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I too can relate to your issues with your mom. I am facing the same thing with my mom. It sounds like we have similar a FOO issue.

I want you to know that even though I am new here you are a role-model for me. Seeing that you are a FWS, that I can relate too, gives me hope that I really can recover from this. You advise is very good, it causes me to think about me and my problems in a new light, and your replies are always very insightful.


Posts: 61 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Wow. I know you're not a hugger, Aubrie, so I'll just sit next to you and shake my head along with you.

I'm so sorry for your sister. Three losses in one year is too much pain for a person to handle. I am glad she has you for support.

My mother does the same thing--no matter what I'm going through, she's been through it and guess what? HER situation was SO MUCH WORSE and I should just stop whining and listen to what she has to say about everything. Because everything is about her. I even asked her once "Mom, can't I have ANYTHING that is just mine? Does EVERYTHING have to be about you?" And she got so pissed off I thought she was going to hit me. Which would have been the shit cherry on the shit sundae I was trying to swallow at that point.

It hurts so much, because you just want your MOM to be your MOM and hold and comfort you because she loves you. Not because you have satisfied her ritual of worshipping and paying court to her.

I have limited contact with my mother now that my fiance and I have moved in together. I'm lucky because she seems to realize that I can control my contact with her and if she crosses my line, I can hang up/disengage/move on. So, our communication has been getting better.

My mother is also very much of a "What will my friends think of this?" kind of person. I used to get that ALL THE TIME--- "What you did made me look BAD in front of my friends!"

Sad thing is, my mother's friends are all drunk alcoholics at the club she goes to. I once said "How? All of your friends are so drunk they don't even remember seeing you the next day anyway."

I had to find another place to sleep for a couple of days after that.


Anyway, I'm sorry to t/j your post. I just wanted to share with you my experiences, and let you know that I can completely relate to your dealings with your FOO.

Let her be "poor wittle mommy" if that's the role whe wishes to play. You have your own family, your own children to take care of. I'm proud of you Aubrie, for how far you have come with your FOO. You are showing your kiddos what a REAL family looks like. What a healthy family looks like. You are breaking the cycle. And that is so hard to do. Soldier on, Aubrie, soldier on.


Posts: 3419 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
AchillesHealed
Member
Member # 41805
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Aubrie, just wanted to say I'm so sorry, for both your sister and you. It's really hard to cut off a parent, even when you know they're toxic and incapable of healthy/normal relationships. I haven't spoken to my father in over a year.

Does your mother even understand/acknowledge the issue and the inappropriateness of her reaction? Has she ever been in IC? I am sure being in a toxic relationship herself (with your father having NPD) only makes matters worse.

But no, you're not missing anything except for more misery and anger, unless she is willing work on herself. You've done the right thing for you.


Posts: 59 | Registered: Dec 2013
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Aubrie,

I'm so sorry for what you and your little sis are going through. I'm glad you have each other and that you both recognize the dysfunctional crap from your parents.

Peace and Strength


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I hope you don't consider this out of line, but isn't this similar to you writing out your timeline?
You're not out of line. You're correct. The timeline was agony. And yes, now that you mention it, this is similar to that experience.

The timeline ended up being very cathartic. (in a weird way) I will give the letters serious thought. There's a 99.99% chance it's the only way I can get what's in my heart out in the open. Even if they never hear it.

Part of my issue is with the timeline, it was all about me. What I had done, thought, and felt. The letters will be pointed at another person. My parents. It's difficult just thinking about writing a letter because the things I want to say, the things I feel are considered disrespectful. There is fear. Fear of the feelings and thoughts I have.

My childhood was a dream compared to other people's experiences. I struggle with minimizing my experiences and pushing them down. I wasn't sexually abused, I don't have scars from cigarette burns. An "abusive" moment example: I was about 15. Dad hated my boyfriend. I said something about loving my BF. Dad came off his bed, (we argued regularly in my parents bedroom) and was two inches from my face, my back pressed into the wall, him yelling about how I didn't know anything, that I was raised better than how I was acting, my boyfriend was trash, Dad knew best, act like an adult, etc. Really abuse? Or a Dad protecting his daughter from a predator? That's where I struggle. Then I remember it happened on a regular basis for three years. And then I remember the bigger picture.

My parents were BFF with my BF's parents. We were together literally 4-5 times a week. All that time together, teen hormones, but I'm not supposed to have anything to do with BF. Seriously. How does that work Daddy dearest? You're setting me up for failure. If I'm not supposed to have anything to do with BF, then why take me out to dinner with them, why take me to their house, why take me on trips where BF is all. the. time?

I ask QS over and over where I went wrong. He insists I didn't. He watched it all happening in real time. He was in the youth group with me and BF back in the day. He saw what my Dad was doing. Pissed him off back then, pisses him off now.

Jesus, I'm a mess. And I think I just sent this thread into another direction.

When it comes to my actions, I'll own it. When it comes to dealing with their actions and my feelings because of them? Scares the ever livin' out of me. I guess I am really fearful of blameshifting. Blaming them for crap and me just being a whiner baby. I want to own where I'm the problem. Am I making any sense?

KB, I hear you. Thing is, you recognize that your buttheadedness is the reason for the rift. That's the sad part. My FOO don't see that. They are total "victims" in this. kwim? I think if they did see it the way you do, there would be a chance at healing and a rebuilding of the relationship.

Scorpio, I've been keeping an eye on you since you joined. Keep digging in. It's difficult, but I've learned even when it's incredibly hard, (like now) it's worth it in the end. You can heal if you don't let the fear swallow you up. Keep pressing on, even if it's a little at a time. Even when your pace slows to a crawl. At least you are moving in the right direction.

I know you're not a hugger, Aubrie, so I'll just sit next to you and shake my head along with you.
This made me laugh. Thank you for that itainteasy.

My mother is also very much of a "What will my friends think of this?" kind of person. I used to get that ALL THE TIME--- "What you did made me look BAD in front of my friends!"
Yep. Have heard this so many times, I've lost count. I suspect it's in the millions.

Does your mother even understand/acknowledge the issue and the inappropriateness of her reaction?
I'm not talking to her so I'm not 100% sure. But based on past experiences and how the treatment continues? Nope. It's not her fault. Everyone else is big meanie heads.

Has she ever been in IC?
No. Never. And she would never consider it. Me and Little Sister have been her IC. She whines about her life and marriage to us. Well, used to till we put our foot down. She can't talk to IC. It would mean outing her husband. And she has to protect him and his position. Even if it means she lives a miserable life. Even when it costs her her home, her car, her friends, and now her children.

And in this whole convoluted mess, I feel guilty for talking about it. I don't want to make it "all about me". I feel very uncomfortable that people sympathize. I'm incredibly hard on myself because FOO helped show me how to do that. I'm not patient with myself.

I see it. It's just not "clicking".

FML. I'm going to go read a book.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6315 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Part of my issue is with the timeline, it was all about me. What I had done, thought, and felt. The letters will be pointed at another person. My parents. It's difficult just thinking about writing a letter because the things I want to say, the things I feel are considered disrespectful. There is fear. Fear of the feelings and thoughts I have.

Would the focus of your letters be your parents, or would it be your thoughts and feelings in response to their behavior?

Fear. Fear is a really good argument FOR doing this exercise. Lean in, right?

My IC had me do an exercise that was super helpful in processing painful events from my past.

He had me write them down in three columns.

Like this(I can't do columns but you can imagine them):

1. EVENT: Dad screaming in my face about BF. Physically intimidating me by backing me up against the wall. Calling BF trash. Telling me I was raised better.

2. FEELINGS then: fear, hurt, anger

3. FEELINGS now: anger, sadness

This really helped me to process. And to find empathy for myself and for others. And to let go or move toward letting go.

Prayers for you and your sis..


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
lostmylight55
Member
Member # 33517
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

My childhood was a dream compared to other people's experiences. I struggle with minimizing my experiences and pushing them down.

I could say the same about my childhood. I wanted for nothing, I was spoiled, our family went on many vacations together but that doesn't change the fact that I was raised by narcissistic parents and a mother with – to this day – absolutely zero empathy.

Those are the things I need to come to grips with. Those are the things that shaped me more, not the amount of stuff they gave or the places we went. Their personalities and the way they interacted with me and each other is what shaped me in an unhealthy way.

I was not supposed to talk back to my parents, I was supposed to be respectful towards them but I also need to accept that the way my parents raised us kids messed us all up. My brother is a socially awkward outcast with major enmeshment issues with my mother, my sister is a WS that wanted to leave her husband AND children for her AP – And DID! Which didn't work out because her AP went back to his family. She blames him, his wife, his kids, her XBS for messing up her plans. She's as unremorseful as they come. And then there was me. This is all very unhealthy shit that comes from a family that was, on the outside, a perfect one.

It isn't blame shifting to assign responsibilities where they legitimately need to be. I don't blame my parents, they did the best they could based on who they are and what they grew up with. But shit runs down hill and we were a byproduct of them and their FOO. I take full responsibility for what I have done but can better see why I was the person I was and where it originated from and I don't want to ever be like that or the way my family behaves ever again.

You have to conquer the fear of feeling like a "bad daughter", not much different than you conquering your feeling of being a "bad wife" after D'Day.

I get the feeling you are linking the blame shifting talked about on this site pertaining to A's to how you feel about your parents. They are different.

You should focus on how it makes you feel rather than what they are doing. Now it's time to have an intimate conversation with your parents and say, indirectly to them, what you can't say to their face – push through the fear.

Good Luck, I'm sorry you have to go through this.

[This message edited by lostmylight55 at 11:26 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


My Boundaries are firm: Trespassers will be shot on sight.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Oct 2011
plainsong
Member
Member # 37826
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I'm so sorry for your sister's loss and for the loss of loving parents that both of you are experiencing now.

I'd like to put in a plug for doing the writing exercise. The thoughts swirling in your head now are in a space too small to handle them. Writing them out will let you follow trains of thought wherever they take you, - maybe from anger to hurt, to grief, back to anger; at your parents, at yourself, at others, at life - without new themes short-circuiting old ones before you have fully expressed them. I hear how much you don't want to attack your parents. That is why you are doing this in a letter you won't send, and not in person. I also hear that you are afraid that your thoughts and feelings are "bad".

That's how I felt in my first post on SI, which I entitled "Hateful Feelings". The advice I got in response to that post was that I needed to feel what I felt in order to work through it and find out what was underneath. My IC said the same thing, and suggested the same kind of writing exercise - just writing what I felt and thought. She reassured me that if I let out on paper what was, after all, already in my head, my thoughts and feelings would eventually go in a direction that would be healing. That is what happened. I still use writing when I realize I am stuck in swirling, painful thoughts.

I felt, and still feel, great shame at having hostile feelings towards others. But when I give myself permission to express my anger and hurt and grief on paper, I reach a place where I can have compassion for my hurt child and become aware of the love and support I have from others in my life today, which lets me become a more loving person 'in real life'.

This is hard . It took me months to be willing to face the shame and put my hateful thoughts on paper. But it is worth it, and you are entitled to that relief.

All my best to you and your sister in this painful time.


Me,WW,69;
Him,BH,70 - Happy Birthday!
Dday,12/22/2010
I use capital letters for emphasis, not yelling!

Posts: 73 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Chicago area
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Would the focus of your letters be your parents, or would it be your thoughts and feelings in response to their behavior?
It would be my thoughts and feelings which stem from their actions. (or inactions)

Fear is a really good argument FOR doing this exercise. Lean in, right?
Yeah I know. I should take a look at my own sig line again.

Your column idea has merit. When I think "writing", I automatically assume letter/story form. But I think the column with be helpful with dissecting my feelings then/now in a much better way.

Those are the things that shaped me more, not the amount of stuff they gave or the places we went. Their personalities and the way they interacted with me and each other is what shaped me in an unhealthy way.
My problem is keeping all that separate. The "stuff" versus the unhealthy personalities. I keep looking at is as a whole and thinking "Well ok. Maybe they weren't so bad..."

I get the feeling you are linking the blame shifting talked about on this site pertaining to A's to how you feel about your parents.
Yep. I've taken the "No excuses for our A" into FOO territory. No excuses for my issues. And to say, "I'm like this because of that." just feels wrong.

Cheese and crackers I need to quit talking because I feel I'm digging myself into an even bigger hole. Emotional maturity? HA. I'm in preschool.

I reach a place where I can have compassion for my hurt child
This right here? Paralyzing fear. Be nice to me, even "little" me?

*sigh*

I'll write. If nothing else, as an experiment. To see if it helps process this trash. Doesn't hurt to try. I'll start at the beginning. And see where it takes me.

Thank you everyone for letting me work this out. Yet again. I'm so tired of being stuck. Maybe I can finally get thru this now.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6315 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I'm hugging you, Aubrie, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! Heck, I need one too.

(((Aubrie and Sis)))

My childhood was a dream compared to other people's experiences. I struggle with minimizing my experiences and pushing them down. I wasn't sexually abused, I don't have scars from cigarette burns. An "abusive" moment example: I was about 15. Dad hated my boyfriend. I said something about loving my BF. Dad came off his bed, (we argued regularly in my parents bedroom) and was two inches from my face, my back pressed into the wall, him yelling about how I didn't know anything, that I was raised better than how I was acting, my boyfriend was trash, Dad knew best, act like an adult, etc. Really abuse? Or a Dad protecting his daughter from a predator?

This minimization is typical. I WAS abused, both sexually and verbally/emotionally. I minimized it. My mom saw firsthand the verbal/emotional because the culprit was my ex stepfather. I didn't tell her about the sexual stuff until I was around 21ish. So, maybe 14-15 years later I guess? Part of it was self-blame, fear and guilt. Part of it was minimization. I see now that I minimized as a defense mechanism to protect myself from fully feeling the hurt and the other raw emotions that threatened to overwhelm me.

Are you minimizing in order to protect yourself from further hurt?

When it comes to my actions, I'll own it. When it comes to dealing with their actions and my feelings because of them? Scares the ever livin' out of me. I guess I am really fearful of blameshifting. Blaming them for crap and me just being a whiner baby. I want to own where I'm the problem. Am I making any sense?

Idk if it's true blameshifting, but it might fall more along the lines of minimization as well.

Aubrie. You feel how you feel. No sugarcoating it. No beating around the bush. You're sad. And angry. And frustrated. And TIRED of the drama. And probably a whole host of other things. And guess what honey? It's OKAY. You're allowed to feel anger/whatever at your parents without beating yourself up and calling yourself a "whiner baby." You're trivializing your real emotions by equating them to those of a child.

I like the idea of writing it out. It focuses your thoughts. It empowers you because you're in control and you have a voice that rants uninterrupted while you vomit your reactions/feelings about all the trauma from time immemorial. It can and hopefully will be cathartic- a purge of all that negativity. Also, I hope it can bring a sense of acceptance regarding your perceptions of your FOO's dysfunction.

I also like knightsbff's IC's (whew, a lot of possession there! ) exercise. Good stuff.

And stop comparing your FOO to other FOOs that were in your estimation more dysfunctional. That leads to minimization. It reminds me of a woman in an abusive relationship saying, "well, at least he's only ever slapped me... he could very well have punched me," or some permutation of "at least." Yes, perspective is good. But minimizing can prevent you from healing because you're not dealing with it. You're making it smaller and easier to rugsweep.

Idk if that makes sense. But on the off-chance that it does make sense, I hope it helps.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2010
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Are you minimizing in order to protect yourself from further hurt?
Yes. Dang it. I don't want to hurt anymore.

QS just called to check on me a little while ago. He asked if I was ok. No, I'm not. People keep pushing buttons that I don't want them to push. I know they need pushed. But I don't want it. Cause it hurts.

Minimization = less hurt.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6315 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
MovingUpward
Guide
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Minimization = less hurt.

Minimization = smaller intensity hurt drawn out over a longer time


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 52682 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

But sweetheart. You're hurting anyway. Now. In this moment.

It doesn't really protect you. Minimizing is a fake fix.

ETA: Jinx Moo.

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 2:25 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2010
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Iyanla Vanzant said something once in of her shows that has stuck with me since - "if we're not uncomfortable, we're not growing".

It's true. I saw a quote on FB once that said "a comfort zone is a beautiful place, but nothing ever grows there".

This is a process, Aubrie, a painful one. The only way to get through it is to go through it.

“You can accept or reject the way you are treated by other people, but until you heal the wounds of your past, you will continue to bleed. You can bandage the bleeding with food, with alcohol, with drugs, with work, with cigarettes, with sex, but eventually, it will all ooze through and stain your life. You must find the strength to open the wounds, stick your hands inside, pull out the core of the pain that is holding you in your past, the memories, and make peace with them”.

[This message edited by MissesJai at 2:27 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5980 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Aubrie I might be projecting or whatever here so put me in my place or ignore as needed.

I feel like you are clinging still with some small part of you to the happy, healthy family that you once *thought* you had. Like if you don't see the hurts in black and white it's not all the way real. Or maybe what I mean is by not laying the blame on your parents for *their* hurtful actions (your fear of you blame shifting) you can keep owning some of it thereby maintaining some illusion that you were in control. The thought of being or having been powerless is really scary, even when you're not any more.

Let me give an example because I'm not good at explaining things sometimes.

When I was trying to tell my IC about my CSA. I made statements like "I know it's not my fault, but I didn't scream or fight. I didn't tell immediately. Etc..."

IC pointed out that I was angry with myself and blaming myself for what happened to me. She asked me if we had a 9 year old girl standing in front of us telling the same story of what happened to her would I ask her if she screamed, or fought, or why she waited so long to get the courage to tell?

If I held on to the belief that I could have/should have done something different then I wasn't completely powerless.

I wonder if you aren't giving yourself some of the blame for your parents actions? The minimization?

Our FOO issues contributed to who we are. Yes us, the waywards who chose to cheat. I don't think sorting through and facing down FOO stuff is blame shifting. It's part of getting healthy.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I could say the same about my childhood. I wanted for nothing, I was spoiled, our family went on many vacations together but that doesn't change the fact that I was raised by narcissistic parents and a mother with – to this day – absolutely zero empathy.

Been trying to find a way to say THIS ^^^^^ exactly. It still hurts like hell. I've had to keep her at emotional arms-length my whole adult life. If we ever step into reality, it all starts falling apart.

I can relate on an IL level more than a FOO level to what you're going though, Aubrie, but I've had to protect myself from my own parents as well. Don't minimize your struggle - you are entitled to your feelings.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17860 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I know you guys are right. It's just so dang daunting.

Like if you don't see the hurts in black and white it's not all the way real.
Yeah, pretty much.

If I held on to the belief that I could have/should have done something different then I wasn't completely powerless.

I wonder if you aren't giving yourself some of the blame for your parents actions?
This burns really bad.

I see the argument in my head and it just doesn't make any sense.

If I had just listened to them, we wouldn't have fought, Dad wouldn't have resented me for going against him.

But I was trying to grow up. And it's logical that children and teens will flex their muscles and attempt to make decisions on their own.

And it you had just listened, you would have seen with time that everything they said about BF was true. He wouldn't have hurt me too.

How else are you supposed to learn if you don't try new things? Even if you're stupid and 15.

And if it was anyone else, I would be telling them to cut themselves some slack. That they were a victim of not only their parents extreme control, but at the mercy of a BF that learned his abuse from his own screwed up FOO. That it's not the fault of the person I'm talking to. That they were victimized and helpless. They were sabotaged in their development as a human being.

I can preach it all day long. But I cannot fully embrace it for myself cause if I embrace it, those spikes will pierce my soul. And the powerlessness takes over.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6315 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

You know, honestly, your parents probably did the best they could with the knowledge/tools they had at the time. Why do you think so many people make better grandparents than parents?

It doesn't matter who is at fault here. Maybe it is NO ONE's fault. Sometimes, children don't get what they need, and it isn't because the parents don't try to give it to them. My parents were decent parents. But my dad was emotionally absent. He was also very demanding. I felt that no matter what I did, it wasn't good enough. I considered suicide once when I was a teen.

Now, looking back, I realize that my father DID love me very much and still does. He just isn't able to show it in a way I relate to. He can't be nice to me, he can't do the huggy feely stuff, he isn't an "I love you" kind of person. He just can't do that stuff, it isn't a part of him (and wasn't a part of me either until I realized my emotional unavailability came from my father and I worked to heal that). I have to accept that even though he is gruff, was maybe a bit overzealous with the paddling, and probably a bit emotionally abusive, and sometimes says things that are a bit harsh, he does love me the best way he knows how. I also realize he is not someone I can hang around a lot, because he is hard to get along with.

I've made my peace with it. It is what it is.

The argument you are having in your head....really, it isn't important. You were a CHILD!!!! You couldn't have been mature at the age of 15. You thought you were in love with that boy, and teenagers feel love just as strongly as adults. You did the best you could at the time with what you knew. Maybe you could have listened better but seriously, what teenager listens to their parents? (No normal one that I know of)

No one gets everything they need as a child. That doesn't make anyone else's pain more or less valid. It does make for some healing ourselves when we finally grow up and can get the proper tools to use to heal ourselves.

I'll tell you one thing that has helped me. It may not be your thing but I'm going to put it out here anyway.

I have learned to forgive the child I was for anything I did that may have been detrimental and have compassion for that child. I was a child and I was lovable. All children are lovable. Some just need a bit more loving than others.

I tried a technique that worked so well for healing an old wound I didn't even know I had. When I was 4, I tore open my forehead. I remember lots of white, me screaming, and scary looking people with masks on (doctors & nurses). My mother remembers me screaming for my mommy but they would not let her in the door. I sat down one day, and I closed my eyes, and I remembered that scared little girl. She didn't know what was going on, and she desperately needed her mother. I went in my head, and I gave that child the love and safety and hugs she needed back then. I told her everything would be okay. When I opened my eyes again, I cried and cried for the pain that child went thru and for the compassion I felt for that child that used to be me. Since that time, I have not had any more thoughts about the scary white room and masked people. I also found I have more compassion for myself, even now.

Forgive yourself for the child you were. Look at other children you may know. Would you expect them to make mature, adult decisions? Of course not! Forgive yourself. Have compassion for the child that is still in there. Give that child the love she needed back then. Change the scenario in your head and show the teenage girl the love and understanding she should have had. And then forgive your dad. He probably did the best he could with what he knew. Maybe the damage done to him as a child was so extensive he couldn't overcome it. So you can forgive him for the hurts, but that doesn't mean you have to forget, and that doesn't mean you have to hang with him a lot, if he is still toxic. It just means that you can forgive because we are all human and we all make mistakes, for whatever reasons.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 4:00 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15291 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

And if it was anyone else, I would be telling them to cut themselves some slack.

I have this exact same issue, I judge myself much more harshly that I judge others.

This is where taking the perspective of a neutral, non-judgmental, 3rd party outside observer, can help.

I'm glad you are deciding to do this. Just make sure you take only tiny bites of the sandwich at a time so you don't get overwhelmed right at the start.


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2615 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Aubrie, my wife and I experienced the pain of a missed-miscarriage back in '05. I feel for your sister and her husband and will pray for them. This is a tough time for them and all who love them, for sure.

I'm sorry you're hurting right now, but it doesn't sound to me like you are looking at the situation with your parents wrong. Hang in there.


Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1457 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

((((((Aubrie)))))) (((((((Aubrie's Sis))))))


If it helps, start your list as an observer. State the event, see the little girl and write out her feelings. When you get a few incidents down...you can pick which one you want to work thru.

It micro manages things a bit, but it gives you smaller bites to swallow at a time.

It isn't easy, its freaking hard work. But the peace does come...bit by bit.

I'm adding your sister to my prayer list.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5284 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

But I cannot fully embrace it for myself cause if I embrace it, those spikes will pierce my soul. And the powerlessness takes over.

You can't heal.......

This could be your place to shine. Unfurl your wings and be you. Your parents should have given you the courage, but they tried to keep you in their sphere of influence.

Time for you to be you. End their influence over you. Heck yes, I realize that they are your parents, and always will be. Doesn't mean they got it right. Hell, they can't even see that they *might* be wrong. You can and do. Be the one to break the chain. Be better to yourself and *your* family.

Prayers for you and QS and littles. More for sis and her angel. I'm sorry for your loss.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2995 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Topic Posts: 37