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User Topic: Husband filed D for "time stamp"
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Stop  Posted: 9:16 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

So..my H just found out about the A 20 days ago when I confessed all. He took a week away which was a scheduled business trip and came back saying he would file for D. Yet he has stayed in the house and maintained a good deal of friendliness and interaction with me, which would daily give me false hope. This hope would be put to rest when I'd descend into my basement apartment for the night and it became clear he wasn't changing his mind. (note: I chose to move out b/c our M was marked by his constant walling off and my fear of abandonment, and if HE moved out of the bedroom I would feel abandoned nightly. This way, I kind of feel like I'm just "on my own.")

So today we had MC session #2 and he announced he would file today. I hyperventilated and had a full blown panic attack in the counselors office ("Hi. Counselor, crazy lady here, nice to meet you and prejudice you right off the bat.") My H said the filing was a formality to "time stamp"'the marriage legally so that if we go forward and D in the future, he can claim (for alimony's sake) that the marriage ended when he found out about the infidelity. That the filing doesn't really decide the future of the relationship. Call me crazy but I find filing to D me is unforgivable. How can I go forward with this Sword of Damocles hanging over my head? The whole problem with the M in the first place was that I always felt that way.

I find this cold business move to be very indicative of the whole relationship, as it was, and also that he is wholly "over me" now. Yet he says he doesn't know...there may still be a future for us (without my prompting him to say it.)

I think he's just saying that so he can stay in the house, play happy families, get his ducks lined up in a row...Meanwhile, I am so gutted I can't function or even accept it's really happening-- I need him to leave and rip the bandaid off at once so I can start to move on (I keep slipping into denial that it's not over.) The MC was little help in this regard, as the focus on this first session (2 counsellors, 1 session each) was on the infidelity.

I'm in total despair and don't know how to act (civil, jovial? resolved, desperate) to maintain dignity. Anyone else deal with "I am leaving you but when I damn well please..?" And how stupid is it to hang onto hope?


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Call me crazy but I find filing to D me is unforgivable

Well, apparently he found you cheating on him unforgiveable.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8081 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
littlefoggy
Member
Member # 41429
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

I had a panic attack my first session of MC, too. I don't think it phased my therapist one bit.

We all got our ducks in a row right away. Some states require longer waiting periods, so maybe he is just getting the clock started.

We looked for our STBXs to do the recovery and fix themselves ANYWAY. Despite the D.

We also look for the actions. We get a lot of words. Beautiful wonderful words followed by horrific actions.

Keep doing to do. Fix up yourself. And even if he does do the D... at least you are a better you... GL


Me: BW 30
WH 37
DDay 11/12/13
Divorcing

Posts: 497 | Registered: Nov 2013
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

This thread has been moved to the WS forum. Please post accordingly.

Posts: 35875 | Registered: Mar 2011
Dreamboat
Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Call me crazy but I find filing to D me is unforgivable.

Gently, you had an LTA. You have known about your A for quite a while. Your BS just found about about your A and is reeling, but trying to hold it together. While I do not know this for a fact, if he is like 99% of BS's then that is exactly what he is doing. He filed for D because it is a solid thing that HE has control of. He has just been informed that he did not have control over his life for years. He is not being cold, he is hanging on by his fingernails.

The MC was little help in this regard, as the focus on this first session (2 counsellors, 1 session each) was on the infidelity.

Good. That is where the focus needs to be right now in order for your BS to heal. Your focus right now should be helping your BS to heal, regardless of whether you stay together or not.

I'm in total despair and don't know how to act


You need to act like a remorseful WS. You need to realize that for years you put your selfish desires over the needs of your family and your husband. You need to realize that you focused only on yourself during the A and that NOW it is time to NOT focus on yourself but rather to focus on your BS and helping him heal. If you are unable to do that then rip off the bandaid yourself and leave. But regardless of whether you leave or not, you need to also get into IC and figure out why your thought it was OK to cheat on a man when you are now terrified that he may actually leave you because you did cheat. You are freaking out right now because you are faced with the consequences of YOUR actions. You must have known, on some level, that if you cheated then and he found out then he would D you but you had an A anyway. You need to figure out why you made such self-destructive decisions.

I am sorry for giving you tough love, but I think you really need it. I do hope that you are able to heal and that your BS is able to heal and if that happens then you have a hope that your M will be able to heal.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17686 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
Steppenwolf
Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Cold business move, huh? Sounds like resentment on your part, and possibly some lacking in the empathy department.

I know how you are feeling though. Hearing the D word and believing it was going to actually happen was the single most difficult epiphany that has ever smacked me in the face. But it was necessary. I wouldn't be working on my issues without it.

NOW it is time to NOT focus on yourself

I disagree with this. Now is exactly the time to focus on yourself. Now is not the time to focus on your desires, but your self needs fixing/healing whatever you want to call it. Meet and surpass the needs of your BS and focus on you. You can absolutely do both. One is action and one is reaction.


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
ItHappened2Me2
Member
Member # 32503
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

No stop sign, so I hope this is ok.

Call me crazy but I find filing to D me is unforgivable.

You had a LTA and you find that him filing for D is unforgivable?

I've read a few of your other postings and you still seem to be in the mindset of the A was his fault.

I KNOW that no marriage is perfect and that both spouses contribute to the state of the marriage -- even the BS. And I "get" that you were very unhappy, but you made the CHOICE to cheat. You could have left him and filed for divorce yourself if the marriage was that bad. You could have dragged his ass to a MC BEFORE you had the affair. Instead, you CHOOSE to have an affair.

He is making a choice about his life now. Your affair may be a dealbreaker for him. It is for a lot of folks.

It sounds like you want grace and forgiveness from him and for him to make the changes to make you happy. But him filing for Divorce because you cheated is unforgivable to you?

Have you been to IC? You really don't have a choice on whether he files or not. Or whether

he can stay in the house, play happy families, get his ducks lined up in a row

He didn't have a choice about you cheating on him.

As others have said, if you are really remorseful (not regret -- not "omg, how terrible for ME"), there is still a chance to save your marriage. But you need to work on fixing you -- why did you make THIS choice. And work on helping to heal him. And it is HARD work. The result COULD be a saved marriage. But even if it doesn't save your marriage, you will be a better person for having done the work. And you will be a better mom to your girls for having done the work.

Good luck to you!

[This message edited by ItHappened2Me2 at 10:25 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


BS - me (52); WS - him (52)
DD 15yo, DS 11 yo
Married 25 years (together 27+/-)
DDay #1 - March 18, 2011
DD #2 (after 3 + month TT and false R -- the affair had gone underground) - June 28,2011
DD3: June 19, 2013 - he started up again with the

Posts: 241 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Texas
astudentoflife
Member
Member # 25821
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

To be honest, from your description your husband sounds abusive. That doesn't justify your affair, but you can come to terms with that when you figure out what YOU want. This latest thing the "time stamp" sounds controlling and is indicative of his abusive nature.

You sound resentful and full of pain. I know it is hard to think of yourself when you have embarked on an affair. Some will tell you to work on his feelings, that is not always the correct course, I don't believe. A lot are people who have had affairs perpetrated on them and it is understandable. However, I believe you took the wrong course of action on the right feelings. You now must deal with the issues of remorse, guilt and self doubt your affair has produced for you and the decision whether or not this relationship is right for you and what you need to do about it.

Your BS just found about about your A and is reeling, but trying to hold it together.

I hear this, but Regrette's posts don't bear this out, on the face of it. He took a weeks business trip and came back with this idea. Perhaps Regrette is missing out details, but her husband has maintained a good deal of friendliness and interaction. This doesn't sound as if he is gutted to me. It seems he is using this to ratchet up his control of the situation. I would expect to hear he had lost weight, was questioning himself the whole trip "what did I do?", was calling everyday he was gone, asking where she was, who she was with and acting like someone who was actually hurt, instead of being friendly and interactive. Maybe this is just a wayward rewriting of history, I have no reason to believe that at this point.

Your focus right now should be helping your BS to heal, regardless of whether you stay together or not.

Why is that? On the face of it this man has abused Regrette emotionally for some time. Where is his responsibility to help her heal. Of course her A was wrong, you won't hear me say otherwise. But helping her abuser to heal? She owes him honesty, transparency, but we are in a different world where he has responsibility for his actions as well to help promote healing. Her A does not take away that fact. This is, on the face of it, a dysfunctional relationship which needs a lot of work from both sides.

I will put aside my opinion when I see her husband come and post directly and in line with Regrette and for Regrette to say that her statements about her marriage were made up and apologizes for misinforming us. We have one side of the story to go on.

I will never advocate for an affair under any circumstances. Nor will I simply overlook emotional, verbal or physical abusers getting a break from their responsibilities because someone had an A. They need to stand up and take responsibility for those, if they want to help heal a broken relationship.

They of course have every right to be angry, resentful and hurt by the A, and have a right to end the relationship in a non abusive manner, and I firmly believe the abused has every right to feel hurt and resentful of the abuse, and must find a way to reconcile the damage of their A and find peace and comfort for themselves, even if that means to end the relationship. But in this case to ask someone to focus on healing their abuser and to put their feelings on hold? I don't get that at all. I don't think that person that says that understands the dynamics of abuse to ask that.


WS:52 Male
BS:47 Female
Working towards R and forgiveness.
Also working on domestic abuse issues (9 months abuse free, working hard for more)
My wife is my greatest teacher and best friend.


Posts: 320 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Florida
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 12:40 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Wow astudentoflife thank you so much for that, you have no idea. I am 100% convinced my husband was emotionally abusive and it would be so hard to prove because it was subtle...statements, calm, cold, condescending statements, day in and day out about why this or that need/desire/request can't be met and the message was ALWAYS " you are unworthy." Plus scads and scads of neglect, and his idea of attention was micromanaging how I did stuff when he'd deign to spend time with me. I was horribly unhappy but I believe in MAKING marriage work. Crazy, I know. I just don't have the energy to go out and find/f*ckitup-with someone else. I'm not a romantic...

I don't believe in soul mates and I was the world's most pain-in-the-ass mistress, riddled with guilt & anxiety..I found MM simply b/c I wanted to not feel like a POS.

All this being, said, nothing gives me the excuse to in turn abuse my H. And as far as I'm concerned an A is abuse, on a par with repeatedly punching him in the d*ck, so I get it. I appreciate everyone's comments and the reality check. I need to fix myself and become a better person regardless and I can't control his outcome..it is his right to not forgive me.

I can't however work on healing the BS in my case, other than with honesty, though instead of healing it just...ended the family. He has shown me ZERO hurt. Studentoflife you SO ASTUTELY described what I did NOT get: no sense of insecurity or sexual jealousy or anything. Just a cold, expedient focus on the paperwork and contractual concerns of our M, with " I'm hurt" or "I'm angry" thrown in as explanations for the definitive, surgical action. If anything he has told me " I could've faked this marriage but not you."

My confession upset the status quo. That's what I wanted--thought it would drive everything to a deeper, richer place. Instead it's just gonna give my girls a Daddy that doesn't live at home.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Sounds like your husband has detached to protect himself. Not all BS behave the same after dday. For some it is an immediate deal breaker, especially if the marriage was not good pre-dday. Or they reserve the right to decide, such as the advice here, to give it 6 months and look at the actions of the WS. Personally, I think while he was away he got some sound legal advice to time stamp the D now due to infidelity.

Regrette, I think you purposely tossed a grenade into your marriage hoping to get the outcome you wanted (you admitted that). But you don't get to control this outcome. It was a very passive aggressive act to have what you called a revenge affair because you felt neglected.

And if I understand what you are saying correctly, you are now upset that you didn't crush your husband by having an affair? You want to see his pain. You are right, what you did was abusive. Purposely hoping to cause pain to someone with your actions.

He's said he is hurt and angry. Just because he's not a sobbing snotty mess on the floor doesn't necessarily mean it's not affecting him. A guy who doesn't sound like he's in touch with his emotions to begin with, what's he suppose to look like? There is no script for this.

But in this case to ask someone to focus on healing their abuser and to put their feelings on hold? I don't get that at all. I don't think that person that says that understands the dynamics of abuse to ask that.

Let's go with that idea for a minute;
Maybe now your husband feels like he's been abused by you having an affair, especially if you told him what you said here....that you had an affair ON PURPOSE! So, now you are the abuser in this situation and you are asking HIM to focus on you and put his feelings aside and 'invite you back if he wants you'. There is some seriously flawed thinking there. And, what if your husband is abusive -- when is this tit-for-tat stuff going to end?

You're A has to be dealt with first because it's what blew your marriage apart. You lit the fuse and the bomb went off. Anything about your marriage prior to that bomb takes a back seat. Even if your marriage may be over, and you have no control over that, you still have a giant mess to clean up.

I'm sorry your family is in turmoil.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
majortom87
New Member
Member # 40350
Default  Posted: 3:11 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Well, everything is abuse nowadays, isn't it? And a BS on a Dday can't react in any way that isn't abuse, ain't that convenient? If the BS screams and shouts and call names, abuse, the A was justified all along. If the BS remains in control of his/her feelings, she/he was neglecting and distant, subtle abusing and the A was justified all along. Isn't this a wonderful world to f*ck around? They need to man/woman up and suck it up, right fellas? You need to tell your husband to move on already, god d@mn it! "It's been like two hours since I told you I've been cheating on you! How much time do you need, you crybaby?"

I'm both a BS that became a WS so I know about not reacting well to this kind of news and let me tell you, your attitude is not what it's needed to move forward. To be honest, because I think the best thing for you right now is to read the truth, if your natural reaction to his not spending much time around you is to have an affair, you had the divorce coming. A little bit of begging and asking for forgiveness is required, but that's doesn't grant you automatic reconciliation rights at all. You can be the most apologetic WS in the world and the infidelity still be a dealbreaker. I don't know about your situation but reading you, if I was to choose which one of you is abusing the other, you would be my bet by far.

Sorry to be harsh, I know you're suffering enough as it is, but I can't stand people giving you validation to your wrong choices right now. It's like giving drugs to a quiting junkie, I hope you understand.


Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
Catwoman
Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 4:41 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

You made choices (both moving away from the marital bed/life and having an affair) and he was supposed to pursue you and make it all better for you?

That's a rather self-centered script, is it not? Do you normally deal with emotional issues by running and hoping to be pursued? If so, this is definitely something you need to address to be a healthy person for the balance of your life--whether or not that life includes your spouse.

Frankly, I think your BS did the right thing by seeking legal advice, and if in your state he would have an advantage by filing to "timestamp" the sequence of events, well, he wouldn't have needed to have that timestamp had the events not existed, correct? I don't see it as controlling or abusive AT ALL. At the end of the day, ending a marriage is wholly a business arrangement (that is how the court sees it) and he has made a move to ensure that the has the advantage entitled to him because of your choices. Cold? Not necessarily. Lawyers cannot deal in emotions--they deal in facts. And personally I think he got some good legal advice that he took. This does not mean it is calculated or mean-spirited.

I know plenty of people who have lived in emotionally abusive relationships who do not have affairs. Continuing to avoid the obvious and blaming your BS for your sequence of very self-centered choices is going to continue to retard your healing. You had other choices you did not take, such as sitting him down and telling him of your concerns and offering to go to MC with him. Why wasn't this a course of action? Or you could have filed for divorce and left if it was that unbearable and he wouldn't change. But you chose the affair and to move out (figuratively, if not literally) of the marriage.

With regards to him not "appearing" like a hurt person, I would have to wonder if he can even feel safe expressing his emotions to you. You have blown his world apart--perhaps he feels that he cannot (for good reason) emotionally invest or be vulnerable to you. So he slaps a coping face on it and moves forward. Sometimes a BS has no choice but to do this.

If you want your marriage, you are going to have to take concrete steps to show him that this is what you want. This includes MC and probably IC for you. Is there currently NC with the MM? If not, that should be the first order of business.

I don't see a lot of hope for your situation unless you stop blaming him for your choices and start realizing that running away from him and hoping he pursues you is a very childish way to deal with marital issues. It is okay to ask for what we want in a relationship. However, right now, your relationship is very delicate. Asking for something for you when you have "overdrawn" your trust and love with your BS is over the top.

What does the MC see in all of this?

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29663 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 4:53 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I would be curious if there are kids involved here, because being a WS that was in an LTA, the initial reaction from me BS was also "divorce".

It's too overwhelming and I understand that. A one night stand is overwhelming in terms of betrayal, but an LTA must be like an ocean of pain on top of an earthquake of betrayal. I'm watching my BS go through this daily (well, on the days she will see me) and it's horrible, indescribable and certainly UNFORGIVABLE, which she has reminded me 100 times since DDay.

And then there are the kids which complicate everything. No kids the equation looks pretty easy (I think). I hurt her beyond all reasonable doubt and to protect herself now and in the future, she would leave me. But then you get into the family aspect - do we REALLY want to raise children across two households through a nasty, horrendous divorce process. I'm from divorced parents, and without having to read any of the reams of research on how traumatizing it is for children, I lived it. There is no worse memory in my life than my parents divorce.

So now the equation gets really messy, because instead of an "eye for an eye" there are other things to think about - those lovely kids. And then you begin to wonder what is the better path, a divorce? the potential of R? the ability to forgive? etc.

Net, net, no kids and my BS would have filed for D the week after dday. With kids she may still eventually decide on D, but it becomes a MUCH bigger decision.

Good luck with your process. There is some great feedback here, none more important than NOW is the time to wake up, take responsibility for what you have done to your spouse and decide if you're capable of understanding their pain, finding empathy and doing everything possible to help them through their pain and trauma.


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
WalkinOnEggshelz
Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Regrette,

I am curious. You have been given quite a bit of sound advice and plenty to think about from experienced members here, however the only responses you have given are to those that are validating your current thought process. And sadly I believe one of the posters you have related to has been banned from the site. Probably not the healthiest person to get sympathy from.

I can tell you from experience that as a wayward, my perception of a situation has not always been the reality. I have had to step back and look at things from all angles. If you do anything, I hope that you ponder a bit some if the advice you have been given here, even if you don't like it.

The members here have all been there done that. They speak from experience. And I get that hearing the truth sucks. So if you want to fix the things are broken within you please stick around and do the hard work. If you are looking for sympathy and comradery and validation I'm afraid you will get more of that from your girlfriends over a bottle of wine.

Honestly, I hope you have what it takes to stick around. There is a lot of work to be done. And again, I can say from experience that it is worth it.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 736 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
astudentoflife
Member
Member # 25821
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Well, everything is abuse nowadays, isn't it?

No it isn't and no one said it was. What Regrette described is emotional abuse. All the things she described as her husbands actions PRIOR to the affair scream emotional abuse and control to me. Perhaps in your life these things are acceptable, not to me at any rate. I have been there and am still working on my abuse issues and talk to a very good professional who knows abuse inside and out.

From his lips would come the following advice for Regrette. Yes, you made poor choices and you owe your husband honesty and transparency. You owe it to yourself and to your husband not to make this same choice again. How can you help him heal if he as put a wall between both of you? Abuse negates love and affection. That is the consequences of his poor CHOICE to emotionally abuse you. There is a lot of blame to throw around here.

At the end of the day, seek a professional to help you through this, rather than seeking out "help" from an AP. Work on you, your self esteem, because if this is an emotionally abusive relationship, there probably is not a lot of that right now. Your husband either will or won't address his abuse issues and it is your right to decide to stay or leave depending on that.

From an infidelity standpoint, I am not siding with you. What you did was dead wrong. There were many many other choices for you, including the one I just pointed out.

To those whom I sense some anger from in this post towards my posts. I am sorry that you feel that way. I have only read Regrettes story and must take it at face value, just like every other post on this board. Emotional abuse is real. It is damaging, every bit as much as an affair. I've read Regrettes previous posts and on the face of it she is emotionally abused. I have seen what it has done to my wife, thank goodness she decided not to have an affair. I have see the damage that it has done to her and I have compassion for anyone else subject to it. I certainly don't think I have given Regrette a pass on her behavior. Emotional abuse doesn't equal the right to infidelity. It also doesn't equal that he is hurt so she must help him heal. That is an impossibel thing to ask of an abuse victim. He made choices as well and must deal with the outcomes of those choices.

Ideally they will both work on their own issues and develop a healthy marriage.

The points made about her blame shifting and her choices are valid as well, and Regrette can make up her own mind about them if they do apply. Because at the end of the day we are responding to what is written and is as valid as what is written.


WS:52 Male
BS:47 Female
Working towards R and forgiveness.
Also working on domestic abuse issues (9 months abuse free, working hard for more)
My wife is my greatest teacher and best friend.


Posts: 320 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Florida
Althea
Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Regrette, your BH sounds like a controlling, emotionally, unavailable man. There is a book called the Emotionally Unavailable Man that I think will help you.

Now I'm going to be real. You are playing games, and acting out like a spoiled teenager. You used the A to get attention, and now you are unhappy because it blew up in your face. Ummm, what? As others have said, there is no textbook reaction to finding out about an affair. I told my WH that he could have the OW and packed up my kids and left. It doesn't mean that I didn't love him or wasn't destroyed by what he did. It means that self preservation told me to get as far away from this man as I could.

Get into IC. Figure out why you are so insecure. Why you stayed with a man who sounds like he ignored you and didn't give you the love, affection, and attention you desired. I read in one of the millions of self help books I read after Dday that we each end up with partner who are on par with us in the emotional health department. If you imagine each of us has a number from 1-100 an 80 would be attracted to an 80, and 20 to a 20 and so on. If you are an 80 and you are with a 20, the relationship won't last. Think hard about this. You may not be controlling, or emotionally distant; but there is something in you that made you want to stay with someone who was. Start working on that, and stop focusing on all of his shortcomings. You can't control his reaction or whether he files for divorce, but you can make yourself a better person and a better parent.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 457 | Registered: Dec 2012
majortom87
New Member
Member # 40350
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I do feel anger when I read your post. I think this kind of things minimize what abuse really is. See, I come from a really abusive environment. Not the "he would never take me out to dinner, I'm such a victim!!" or the "ten years she had me without a BJ, how much would I take?", no. The "putting out cigarettes in your arm" kind of abuse. I've seen the real emotional abuse and I know what it is to be afraid of the people you're supposed to love. What Regrette has described IS NOT abuse. It's not a good way to treat your spouse and I would have never taken any of it (maybe because of my issues, mind you), but if that's abuse, having an affair is abuse too and much worse. To make things worse, she doesn't sound like an abused person either. She sound entitled and self-centered, precisely the way an abused person tends not to be, in my experience. If she was sooo bad and dealing with sooo much pain, the divorce should be like a liberation to her. So, Regrette, why aren't you happy? Why aren't you celebrating the fact that you're being freed from that "awful" marriage? It sounds like if you liked to be abused, surely you can explain that to us.

No, I'm angry now and I've been angry for quite a long time reading these kind of forums. I feel like I am attacking you and I apologize, that's not what I want. It's just people use thing that, not being OK by any means, are NOT abuse, as an excuse to feel justified in their poor choices. I may be wrong, but I feel there is an industry of self-help books, therapists and cult-like support groups making a living out of offering the WSs easy ways (the way they liked it) to feel better about themselves, depecriating serious things along the way. Call it as you want but if that's bad, an affair it's in the same category and it's worse. And I'm saying this as a WS and a BS, no high ground here.


Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Regrette,

You really have received some good replies. Try to step back and listen. Think things through. Let it sink in.

Your post remind me of feelings and thoughts I struggled with before, during and after my A that I now know to be distorted.

Work on the abandonment in IC. Get your thoughts straightened out. Learn to love yourself (sometimes that means tough love) and you will then see how much you are capable of loving your spouse.

I understand that his filing feels like further abandonment but it was a sound move on his part. Don't focus on that. Focus on the fact that he is still there interacting with you. Use this opportunity to show him by your actions that you are working hard to be a person you both can love. I promise it will be worth it no matter what the outcome of your M. You need to get healthy and help him to heal regardless. You have children who will benefit from having two healthy, healing parents whether they are parenting in one household or two.

Where does this fear of abandonment stem from? That is something that needs looking into and faced.

Stop focusing on what he is doing and what he has done and focus on fixing yourself and supporting him through this trauma. The pre A marital issues will have to wait. The marital issues could turn out to be a deal breaker for either of you but you will not get a chance to see if they can be worked through if you don't handle things better now than you are.

I had myself convinced that my H didn't love me. I was never good enough. I felt judged all the time. I am so glad that I chose to do everything he needed me to so that he could give me a chance to R. I was wrong about how he saw me and we are now working on our martial issues. We love each other more than I ever thought possible and things continue to improve.

I wish you peace and strength to face the scary and tough things you will need to face to become healthy and happy.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I want to address this: "well, everything is abuse now these days, isn't it?"

No, no it isn't. And I'm not under any obligation to suck it up or allow anyone to decide they're gonna minimize it for me: you don't know. My abuse is a fact that is not up for debate. It was constant, insidious and across all areas of the marriage. It can all be put under one umbrella: a lack of commitment on the part of my H. A flat- out REFUSAL to be a husband to me. The neglect was not just "wasn't around much" it was a willful determination to be as minimal in the relationship as possible so he could get the benefits of marriage w/o giving. He gave money. And now he taketh away. Makes perfect sense.


I regret my choices (nobody was a more guilt-addled AP than me) but I regret confessing more than anything. In my mind my H said: go get your needs met elsewhere (He even said as much,) and he is using the A as an excuse to have both feet out the door when all along he had one.

You're right...I threw a grenade into the M. If I didn't have kids I'd be glad I did it. But I think of their future and realize I should've just sucked up my M with grim determination and carried on in A's until the cows came home.

I've been betrayed in the past in relationships where I was deeply in love. I always questioned my true victim status. I always felt only half victimized and the other half of me just felt like I'd "lost" someone's interest. And that the reasons had to do with the RELATIONSHIP.

To say I could've sat him down and detailed my needs from the M is ridiculous. I approached him in a multitude of ways numerous times. I'm not crazy or needy. I wanted a NORMAL amount of love and intimacy and companionship. He WAS WITHOLDING meeting needs b/c that's the kind of M HE wanted...one where he got some needs met at home and most others outside the M.

There are consequences you say? The consequence of neglecting your spouse too much is that they will step outside the marriage. I don't really care if that is the "party line" here or not. It's not to be defiant it's just a fact.

I am not a narcissist, quite the contrary, and my confession was a desperate plea for authenticity. More than anything it seems my confessing upset the status quo and THAT is what enraged my H the most.

Another poster reminded me the M was bad to begin with so surviving the grenade is unlikely. I have to remember that: his reaction is totally the norm.

I do not lack empathy for my H, or need to see him "a snotty, snivelling mess." but I do need to see SOMETHING. Anything. I don't have tolerance for people who can't show their feelings. I think it all comes down to that. To me if you can't show feelings you don't get to have an adult romantic relationship; it's like it's own form of broken vow. You don't get to pass go or collect $200. It's game over for you from the start. Also true if you don't f$ck your spouse.

If you show me ANY vulnerability, I am a deeply empathetic person with a huge sense of responsibility and self-discipline. I am generally not boundariless. But I am disloyal.

I am also abusive. Because while wanting to step outside the M is NORMAL, actually having an LTA is abusive (the gaslighting alone is the abusive part.) That's on me.



Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Thank you knightsbff, those are some very lovely words and really delivers the same message: I really have a lot of work to do and that's all I should focus on.

Ground control to Major Tom: it is very interesting that I anger you so, because, as a childhood abuse survivor at the hands of my narcissistic and violent mother, I learned pretty early on that I might just be one of those people who spends a lifetime courting abuse. I enrage people. I am a professional victim. I have often thought I might die at the hands of a murderer. These are paranoid thoughts, for sure, but it's what you live with. I am sorry for your cigarette burns but my scars are good enough for me. I understand your ire. Everybody hates a victim.

I have been in IC for 15 years. Only just started MC. Big mistake. Thank you all for your sound advice. If I truly want this I should work hard to clean up my end, otherwise I should be relieved it's over. Ain't nothing in between I suppose...

[This message edited by Regrette at 8:29 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
Herkemeyer
Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

So...you're saying you want to reconcile with a "subtly abusive" spouse? Or is that wayward rewriting of marital history?


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 133 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I am saying I want to reconcile if he will change. Ballsy, I know, but I don't care, it's the truth. I didn't rewrite anything. It was already written down wayyyyy before.

Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

There are consequences you say? The consequence of neglecting your spouse too much is that they will step outside the marriage. I don't really care if that is the "party line" here or not. It's not to be defiant it's just a fact.

Gently, the consequence of neglecting your spouse is that they will leave you. No act, ever, should have a consequence of betrayal. That is, imo, very wayward thinking. It reads as if you believe that you are entitled to do whatever you wish because you weren't getting what you wanted. That's not healthy thinking.

I'm a BS - and I think others have done a wonderful job trying to help you see things a little differently, so I will leave them to it.

I'm not trying to judge you - at all. I hope you don't see my comment that way. I've seen you say you hoped telling would bring 'authenticity', and yet you still feel justified in being very unauthentic and having an A. I wonder if that's really a defense mechanism because your H is acting very cold?

It's a sad situation all around. I hope things improve for you, I sincerely do.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Look I am not surprised by the snarky quotation marks around the word abuse in this case. It's like the quotations you might find around "date rape." But "subtle abuse" is not "Santa Claus" and I don't appreciate the skepticism, frankly. I suppose I could detail a list starting from how he went on a bike race when I announced I'm going into labor to when he had me shoved up against a wall poking his finger, hard, into my cheek but I am too tired to make such a list and since even Daisy 's gun story failed to sway the skeptics, I'm not about to do battle with em.

The subtlety is in the personality/ delivery. Not all abusers are all "Al Pacino," some are more "Jeremy Irons," ya dig?


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Painful past, I hear ya, I do, but... As someone who's been cheated on, I sort of don't know if I buy that it's the absolute WORST thing you can do to someone. I mean, in dating life if you lose someone's interest and they date another, you're sort of told to suck THAT up, right? I mean...I dunno. I guess I pretty much think abandonment is the worst thing you can do to someone. Or maybe sticking around and picking at their self-esteem daily...that pretty evil too. But that's just me. Some would rather be abandoned or picked at constantly than betrayed. Maybe I'm the opposite...I dunno.

Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

The lovely thing about individuality is, you don't get to decide for another person what hurts worse. Whether it's cheating, abuse, abandoning, burning their arms, picking up the wrong jello at Publix, forgetting an anniversary, or going hunting instead of a romantic beach vacation.

You don't get to choose for your husband what hurts worse. And the comparisons will get you exactly nowhere.

You work on what you can control. You. And your crappy coping mechanisms that led you to a long term affair versus taking up knitting.

And for the record, the gun story? That wasn't Daisy's. That happened to helplessme.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6302 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

If my husband had willfully denied me my unquenchable need for quality Mohair, I totally would've taken up knitting again but sadly that was not the case.

Oh yeah and f^ck that guy who picked up the wrong jello, I can't believe he did that. I'll take being beaten by my mother with a shoe over that any day.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Regrette.
I think you are getting some pushback on the abuse thing here, because many of us here (BS and WS) have practiced some amount of self-pity and self-deception. So, we are all a little attuned to, close to dday, thinking and believing things that support our unhealthy behaviors. If you used your husband's emotional unavailability to rationalize your affair, there is a lot of work to be done there to tease the things apart.

I don't find your husband's actions re: filing for D to be abusive in the least. He is covering his butt. And, you know, why shouldn't he? You (gently) don't appear on the surface to be the most remorseful wayward. You say he isn't showing his feelings . . are you? He isn't acting "hurt," but are you acting contrite? My guess is that the word contrite actually made you squirm in your seat a little.

It sounds to me like you and your H have a huge power struggle going on, and if you, Regrette, want the marriage to work, then you are going to have to get vulnerable, get real, and go all in. Go to MC, read the books, and stop feeling sorry for yourself. The main thing my H has learned from this affair about himself is humility. It was a profound change for him, and a gift to our marriage.

I wish you peace, and the strength to not put up walls.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2058 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:12 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

The stop sign has now been added. This thread is closed off to BS's at this point.

Thanks!


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198293 | Registered: May 2002
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

WSs Only. Stop sign has been added.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:35 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Good advice bionic gal. My walls are always penetrable, but you're right I've got them up.. But "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you"/ just because you engage in self pity doesn't mean you're not a victim. I actually have never said to anyone: "stop feeling sorry for yourself." even to a friend in a pathetic state. I never found those words to be helpful.

But you are right that I am not sufficiently contrite. Maybe cuz all the contrition I could muster was used to end the affair pretty much when it was at its high point. I was madly in love with my MM (though I recognize it now as a sick, unreal kind of addictive love.). But I ended it because I simply couldn't tolerate the "wrongness" of it all. It was wrong in every way, on all levels.

I need to learn self- pity is not vulnerability, because it doesn't let anyone else in, and it's not about anyone but yourself. It just was very hard for me to find the love for my H...it was down to one tiny burning ember, hard to see in the dark, because my resentment had grown so deep for so long.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Oh yeah and f^ck that guy who picked up the wrong jello, I can't believe he did that. I'll take being beaten by my mother with a shoe over that any day.
Be sarcastic all you want. You would be surprised at the excuses that WS have used to cheat on their spouses. Everything from "You didn't make the bed everyday" to "you use too many cheeses in your lasagna". There's those who also throw in the abuse and abandonment stuff. Bottom line Still doesn't justify our actions to cheat.

The consequence of neglecting your spouse too much is that they will step outside the marriage. I don't really care if that is the "party line" here or not. It's not to be defiant it's just a fact.
No it's really not. That is the surface answer. All the WW come here bitching and whining about how their husbands weren't paying enough attention, they didn't open up and talk to them, they work too much, wah wah wah. That is the SURFACE answer. The real answer is deeper, muuuuuch deeper than that. It requires digging, hard work, and dissecting yourself for the answers.

For you to expect your husband to get over your LTA instantly and deal with his issues? Completely irrational. And filing for divorce directly after Dday is common. It's called "covering your butt". That act alone is not abusive. He's completely within his rights.

Three things have to heal after infidelity. Him, you, and the marriage. You can't heal him, he can't heal you. You also can't push him to heal. He's on his own timeline. Just like you are. Only when the both of you start healing yourselves can the marriage move forward.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6302 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Samantha, IMHO, we both chose the hard way.

Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Deleted due to the Stop sign being added - it took a while to write that. Sorry.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 9:34 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Aubrey;

I'm not sure "I grew to hate my husband so i broke my marriage vows, because I felt that he didn't honor his" is surfacy. It's simple, elegant logic. It's A reason. Not a GOOD reason but its a SIMPLE explanation. The bad part --the worst part--about an A is making decisions unilaterally--robbing others of the truth. Cheating is wrong...but not necessarily unjustified. I cheated on a chemistry test once-- it was totally justified!


I am a BPD, NPD addict with abandonment issues is actually a very convoluted answer and may or may not be any more deep..it just sounds more medical...but it's all a kind of explanation. A justification, if you will. Like the kid who breaks the law because he's hungry and steals food. Sure you could go on a Paul Randian rampage that his real sickness is entitlement and a lack of personal responsibility, or you could take the Marxist approach and show a kid whose ability to be self responsible has been crushed by systems long in place before the crime. Or you can just forgive the hunger, forgive the crime, and let him off the hook and call it a day. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. I just don't think my explanation lacks depth...I've been doing "the hard work" on myself for years. At 46, I'm not sure more can be done. At some point it's just like...we're only human. And we do things for reasons.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

As someone who's been cheated on, I sort of don't know if I buy that it's the absolute WORST thing you can do to someone.

Wow. I actually feel you here Regrette. I was cheated on in my first marriage and I didn't react like my BH or most BH's on here reacted AT ALL. Sure, it hurt some. My marriage ended and I moved on.

My BH recognized that I wasn't as hurt by being betrayed as most people would have been. He told me that even if he had an RA I still wouldn't feel what he's been feeling. He was right. My brokenness protected me from that kind of hurt.

I mean, in dating life if you lose someone's interest and they date another, you're sort of told to suck THAT up, right?
This is how I always saw things too. But I know now how wrong that was. Being left hurts. We're supposed to feel that pain, grieve the loss, then move on, NOT suck it up, which is what I always did.

My extreme fear of abandonment drove me to keep everyone at a certain distance so I couldn't get hurt. Problem with that is you don't get intimacy and love that way either.

I was convinced that my BH was emotionally abusive, I also felt he didn't really care about me either. Retrouvaille was an eye opener for both of us. He was protecting himself from me. We still have plenty of work to do but we have both been amazed by how wrong we both were about the others thoughts and feelings.

I am saying I want to reconcile if he will change. Ballsy, I know, but I don't care, it's the truth. I didn't rewrite anything. It was already written down wayyyyy before.
I think I get this too Regrette. The M was intolerable to you before you cheated. You NEEDED it to change. Thing is you took a house in need of major renovation and blew it up. Now it's impossible to live in it while the work gets done. For rebuilding to take place the fires have to be put out and the wreckage has to be cleared away. If you want a chance to see if you can get the M you want you're going to have to do the hard work of recovery before you can start reconciliation. Recovery from the A has to happen first.

You were living with emotional and physical abuse (held against a wall with a finger in your cheek). You could have left, or filed for D. Your H would have then had the option to try to work with you on saving the M if he chose to. You chose to cheat instead and now you have to deal with the consequences of YOUR actions first. It sucks because you have been hurting for a long time and you are full of resentment.

You say you still want the marriage if he can change. You probably won't get the chance to find out if he can change unless you do some changing first.

I'm sorry you are in this mess. I'm sorry you're hurting. (((Regrette)))


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
majortom87
New Member
Member # 40350
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

WS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:11 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

From knightsbff (sorry dunno how to quote):

"I had myself convinced that my H didn't love me. I was never good enough. I felt judged all the time. I am so glad that I chose to do everything he needed me to so that he could give me a chance to R. I was wrong about how he saw me and we are now working on our martial issues. We love each other more than I ever thought possible and things continue to improve."


The problem here is I don't know what my H WANTS. He doesn't tell me. He just seems to want pleasant conversation about the kids and that's it. I provide him with that, and we joke and laugh about stuff and get along. I don't know what else to do. He seems happy and empowered. I am miserable and worried but hide it for good chunks of the day. He doesn't seem to want or need anything from me but compliance, pleasantries and leaving him alone to do his thing.

So I am back to how I always felt in the marriage, that this is all dandy in a cold sort of way but could be removed at any second. It is hard not to think about yourself when you don't know what the other person is asking of you.

I wanted to shake up the marriage but instead I put myself in the ultimate one down position. I was worried about feeling like a live in domestic and I created that for myself. I got the idea to confess from these websites. I can't for the life of me see the value in it, other than I get my comeuppance and I lose everything. What does he lose? A loyal wife? He didn't WANT me as a wife. He loses nothing and has only to gain by D.

All in all this is simply a "he's just not that into you" situation. The A is just a way for him to be more smug in his decision to abandon me. I'm sorry I am so defiant but it just feels like there is just so much hypocrisy in his stance as cuckold. To quote a great line from a movie where the character is caught having an affair: "I belong only to you but you don't want me?"


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
WalkinOnEggshelz
Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Regrette,

I have to admit that I am beginning to get very confused by your posts. First you say how much you wantbtobsave your M. But then turn around and talk about how you have been abused. You dig in your heels and state why you are justified in your A. I'm not sure I understand why you want to save this M. Honestly, I think that maybe that should be the first question to truly ask yourself. Why is this a M worth saving?

I am saying I want to reconcile if he will change. Ballsy, I know, but I don't care, it's the truth. I didn't rewrite anything. It was already written down wayyyyy before.

Ok, so he needs to change in order to R, fair enough. But I'm pretty sure he would say the same about you. Look, I'm not going to weigh in on whether or not your husband is abusive or even an irritating asshole, I don't know him. And I don't know your history. All I have to go on is the information you give. But I don't even need to know your story to understand a few bits and pieces about you because you are a WW. I know you needed validation, I know you feel you weren't getting it, and I know that you found ways to justify your behavior. The thought process that led you down the path telling yourself that sleeping with another man was "OK" is what you need to be focusing on here. You have been in IC for years yet you aren't addressing these issues? If you know what your issues are, what are you doing to fix them? Based on your exchanges here, it feels like you still have a lot of progress to make. And because of that, your BH may have filed for D because he sees that there is not much left to save.

I am extremely pro R, but I have seen stories here where I sit back and wonder if D isn't the best answer. And if you as the wayward spouse can't seem to come up with any niceties about your BH or your M, I wonder.

The problem here is I don't know what my H WANTS

Have you thought to ask? I mean really sit down with him and discuss what each of you want out of all this? One thing I have taken from all of this is that when I don't know something I need to ask directly. Rarely when I just make an assumption had I been right. I always tended to expect the worse from people. Maybe if you actually sat down with him and had a heart to heart without walls and defenses the two of you could start going somewhere.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 736 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Eggshelz that is an eggcellent question (sorry!)

It came up in MC, and I dunno why I am so ambivalent. But I know for sure it's not because I'm rewriting history..my resentment was in place wayyyy before. But again I'm not here to defend a position I believe 100% to be true.

It's a funny thing about the subtle daily eroding abuses that are sort of the cliche marital construct. Archie Bunker and Dingbat, The Honeymooners, the lady I saw at the grocery store the other day hammering emasculating, eviscerating statements at her H over freaking groceries. No respect. It's unreal what so many endure, and much of it can be brushed away as "dysfunction that works," or adorably abusive. But it's damaging nonetheless. If you want to remain damaged great, but some don't.

Also within all the stereotypes described above, can be found tender moments of love. This is the modern paradox of the sexes...in some ways we are ok with being clubbed on our way to being dragged into the cave, in some ways we are not. We can blame feminism, patriarchy, narcissism, addiction. But the bottom line is "who needs it." when I ask my H, very directly and simply, why we can't have more sex I don't need to hear it's my "middle aged woman insecurity," I just don't. I simply like sex. This idea is so radical, whole syndromes and hidden agendas are tied to women who seek it. The therapy industry is no exception.

So..who needs it. Marriage? Certainly not me. I hate almost everything about it. But my kids need it. And we are great coparents who can fill a room with love when children are about. It didn't used to be that way, but somewhere along the line we became punching bags to each other and it was indisputably sucky from then on. Bad habits. Bad, gender specific habits from poor conditioning. Who knows if that's worth saving.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

So what is it that you want, Regrette?


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5976 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
WalkinOnEggshelz
Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

So..who needs it. Marriage? Certainly not me. I hate almost everything about it. But my kids need it.

So you are staying in your M strictly for the children? Kids are so much more intuitive than we give them credit for. You don't think they don't sense that your M is rocky? They may not understand it, but they know something is wrong.

In the meantime, you will be teaching them that it is alright to both disrespect and be disrespected when it comes to relationships. And the cycle can then continue.

Admittedly, our kids have been a driving force, especially in the early days. But it can't be the only one.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 736 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Dunno. Based on all your comments here I looked my H in the eye tonight and told him I'm sorry I have shown him zero compassion. And there it was. All the hurt. Funny that I had to come down from my attacking position (attacking from 'victim,') to see the hurt that was always there. I came at the marriage with my grenade launcher a'blazing, and, because I couldn't stop feeling powerless, I decided to just... Destroy...everything. I am such a destructive person. Not a bad person. But a highly destructive one. And when you're young thats duch a rocknroll cliche "ooh, im such a self-destructive person!" but in middle age its not funny or sexy. Because now Im not just self destructive. Im officially, now, destructive to others. An abuser. That, in a nutshell, is the "why" of my affair. Even if I felt justified, I didn't have to burn down the house.

[This message edited by Regrette at 8:46 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
astudentoflife
Member
Member # 25821
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

Even if I felt justified, I didn't have to burn down the house.

Funny thing I said this to my therapist last night with my wife sitting by my side, silently thanking my therapist. You are on the right track to self awareness. The first step.

You have submitted that you felt that you were emotionally abused. I accept that because you said it was true. Make your decision carefully. Resentment is a hard thing to deal with and to simply shut down. It can come back again with a vengeance and the urge to "blow things up" again may come back with those feelings.

I know the guilt an affair can bring. The absolute self hatred for your actions can be overwhelming, if one has any sense of decency and self respect. In the time that follows, those recede and other feelings come into play. Don't rush the answers you are looking for. The behavior of your husband, if true to your words will be remembered by you at a later time, when the anger at your actions recedes and you will once again feel the same things you did when you felt justified to have an affair, if he doesn't change. He may not change. Are you ready for that? To handle that in a responsible way?

Sure you are sending a bad message to your kids, as is your husbands abuse of you. Kids are not stupid. What do you want for them?

You are right about becoming the abuser with your affair. Did you rewrite your marriage history to justify your affair? That is another question you may have, and a tough one to answer sometimes.

I posted originally, because a lot of the time the first response is for the wayward to help their spouse heal. I know from my abuse that is simply too simplistic of an answer. I don't honestly know the whole truth of your marriage. There may be blame shifting and rewriting, maybe not. However, if the abuse is real, only you can decide that, then you are not obligated to reconcile at all, especially if your abuser resists internal change and does not admit to the abuse. That of course is hard to realize after you have just thrown a bomb into the marriage and guilt and shame, and anger at yourself come into play. The need for redemption is very strong, and sometimes the final results are not thought through.

The simple fact is that there is no excuse for an affair or for abuse, be it emotional, verbal or physical. That is just my opinion, based on my knowledge of my wife's journey through my abuse and my own internal journey to stop it.

Strength.


WS:52 Male
BS:47 Female
Working towards R and forgiveness.
Also working on domestic abuse issues (9 months abuse free, working hard for more)
My wife is my greatest teacher and best friend.


Posts: 320 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Florida
astudentoflife
Member
Member # 25821
Default  Posted: 4:53 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I wanted to add a little something which I don't think I made clear in my other posts. Please do listen to some of the people giving advice on here, they know what they are talking about, I have been reading some of their stuff for years. A lot of wisdom in it and it is the result of a lot of soul searching. You need to do the same soul searching to find your answers.

I may differ a great deal from some folks on here with my ideas about abuse. I would never say it is all right to have an affair as the result of being the victim of it, but it is a right to be done with a marriage. However, I guess I have a different perspective on it because I have sat with men in a class designed for abusive men. I learned it can from subtle to explosive, but it is always abuse and is never excused because of "what she did" or "how she behaved" kind of like a BS having a revenge affair.

It can be anything from stonewalling (not sharing, not talking in a marriage) to beating the shit out of your wife every night. The results vary too. I beat my wifes esteem so low, she would wake up each morning crying, realizing that she had to get up for another day. I have lived with the results and they are ugly and knowing that I caused that is almost unbearable. One doesn't need three bails of shit beat out of them everyday to be the victim of abuse.

I think you have a thought process which is going on in your head. An example is seeing his "time stamp" as abusive. My wife who is in R with me, real R had a similar thought process the other day that mirrors this, if it is in fact how you are you thinking. She triggered when I came home and offered to help in anyway to help her get into another career, because I know she is unhappy with her present situation. I am recovering and working hard at ending every form of abuse and have been pretty successful. She immediately thought it was just another way I wanted control in her life. We ended up at my therapists office to discuss it. I had meant what I said, of course it was a KISA issue and another story altogether, but abuse, no. That is how abuse works, it poisons everything in a relationship, even things that are not abusive. You may see everything he does as abusive, because it has been conditioned into you by abuse. It makes clarity very difficult. Only you can make the decision on how you view his actions, from your experiences.

From your posts I get the feeling you may simply be done with your marriage, and beat down emotionally by the abuse you refer to. You may not have the clarity to work on the marriage, simply because that has been damaged permanently. I added my voice to help give you clarity in a situation where you have damaged your relationship severely by your affair. That of course is fraught with danger, because people do lie sometimes, rewrite their own histories and waywards always look for excuses, just like abusers. It is hard to tell by reading blocks of writing and not hearing both sides of a story. Only you know the real truth and only you can choose to be honest with yourself.

I don't believe anyone has the right to say what is abusive and not abusive in your relationship. I know some couples that say "fuck you" to each other every day and mean it. They don't feel it is abusive. I do and my wife does. It would have my wife or myself feeling the pit of dispair in a relationship like that. The part of the conversation that had someone say

Well, everything is abuse nowadays, isn't it?

Indicates that people all believe differently about what constitutes abuse. That of course is simply us human beings with our own issues to deal with.

What I am trying to say is that I am in the corner that you don't need to help your husband heal from this at all. You can initiate divorce immediately, without needing an excuse other than you are simply done. I also believe that if you are to help him heal, HE has as much work to do right now as you do, and you have every right to demand it. For me it much like a "madhatters" situation. I simply believe that abuse, emotional, verbal or physical abuse is as bad as an affair with the capability to cause as much and even more damage. That abusers don't get an "out" like a wayward doesn't get an out. It is impossible to R with someone whom belittles you, disregards you, hits you or tries to control you. It won't work. He won't respond to you "reaching out" to him, he will use it against you. He has work to do on himself.

Now here is the kicker and the thing you need to figure out. Could it be the other way around and you subtly abused him for years and are your thinking allows you to justify it? That is not an accusation, simply a question that should be examined, but it falls more in line with what some of the others have said, I think. If your answer is no, then it is no.

I wanted to clarify, because I respect many people who have contributed to your post and I respect their views. Hopefully they respect mine as well, because I know mine are a bit off script, that is because this is very real to me (abuse). If you are rewriting your history as a coping device, then I hope you will follow their advice and use it to help yourself and your marriage. That can be difficult I know, I have twisted myself into knots trying to wrestle dignity out of abuse and betrayal of my spouse.

I read this post and some other posts you have made and the abuse seemed real to me. I have seen the same type of man, sat next to him and heard his justifications. I wanted to offer a bit of understanding, stopping short of justifying your affair (I can't say that enough ) It is far from uncommon behavior in men because of our upbringing and socializing.

You also must think about your children. Sure you are sending the wrong message by not working at your marriage and becoming two people who exist without respect for each other "for the kids". You also must consider, if your husband is indeed abusive, what type of message does that give your kids. For boys it is a learned behavior and it will effect his relationships in life. For girls the same thing. That must be considered as well. Staying together "for the kids" never works in the long run. They watch everything your husband and you do to learn about life, relationships, everything. They are smart and more aware than a lot of us give them credit for.

I sincerely hope you find the right answers to your situation. It is a tough road being a wayward.


WS:52 Male
BS:47 Female
Working towards R and forgiveness.
Also working on domestic abuse issues (9 months abuse free, working hard for more)
My wife is my greatest teacher and best friend.


Posts: 320 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Florida
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, January 9th (Thursday)

I SO appreciate your words and the kindness in you that has taken the time to write this. I am only going to say this one last time: I did not rewrite my history to justify my A, as much as that is the accepted party line here and in other affair- recovery programs, which are VERY particular in their disease-model view of the cheater-as-addict and betrayed-as-victim. There are other views of affairs, even within the rigorously researched psychoanalytic community, that view them as a natural process in an imbalanced SYSTEM of RELATIONSHIP.

I am very angry and resentful of the skepticism, actually, because in my childhood, my beatings were erased with exactly this tactic. Despite my journaling about them (at age 8!) and having talks with myself to "always remember this," the predominant conversation in the house was "we love each other-you only hurt the ones you love," "please try not to set your mother off--she is a nervous woman and you have to know how to deal with that.," These messages came from my Father, who was very loving and supportive but failed to stand up to my mom when I needed it most. So basically he chose p**sy over me, which might partially explain why i stole another woman's man--i wanted to be chosen.

From my mother, the Glamorous but flailing, bipolar, abusive hysteric, came this message:"it didn't happen that way, how dare you accuse me, you are remembering wrong, you are jealous of me and are trying to make me look bad."

So I know a little something about the "subjectivity debate" and I'm not going there. I am not a schizophrenic with delusional thoughts. I know what I know, my experience is mine, and it is real. Real as real gets. And I actually think there's something abusive in the skepticism. As I said before: Everybody hates a victim.

Now, are there degrees? Absolutely. When my H's dad brags publicly about never noticing the color of his wife's eyes-- ever--in 42 years, and he passes it off as humor, and I see a dark cloud blanket her face, do I recognize that some WOULDN'T call that abusive? Absolutely. But when I imagine her average day peppered with such statements, alongside THE ABSENCE OF LOVING ONES, then I am CONVINCED we have an abuse situation here. And no one will ever tell me differently. And all the other daughter-in-laws see it and agree so it ain't just me. THAT is my H's "normal."

So..to answer the question: No. I absolutely don't want to R if that doesn't change.

Also I am of the opinion that if you withhold sex from your spouse that's your prerogative for a spell, ESP if you are low libido. You can't be something you're not. However to persist in sexual withholding...and DURING sex to expect the other to do much of the work...that is control. And to further EXPECT someone to never get those needs met elsewhere. As in: you own them but you don't want them? Well ...as far as I'm concerned that is a straight-up hostage situation right there.

You are right to remind me that I will be tossed around on a wave pattern of remorse-and-resentment. And that I shouldn't make decisions based on the feelings of the moment. You are also right to remind me that I'm an abuser as well. I know I am. And that is what created this dynamic I'm in today.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
lostmylight55
Member
Member # 33517
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

I don't automatically take a Wayward's word on how they view their M or their BS to be reality (maybe it's their reality but it's not necessary the reality). And I think that way because I was a Wayward. I know I thought of myself as a victim, in my M and to the whole world in general. I was hard-done-by. But really I wasn't. I thought I was neglected by my BW when I was the one doing the neglecting. I was a passive aggressive asshole but thought I was a Good Guy. Any problem with our M or my behavior that my BW voiced, I ignored, shot down or minimized and told her she was imagining things. Plus I was a porn addict and hid that from her. Now I consider how I behaved as abusive. Back then I didn't and I blamed my M for my A. It took me a while of self-examination after D'Day to see my part in any of that. 

My sister is also a Wayward and she blames everyone for her A but herself. She's never owned anything. I know my sister pretty well. We are close in age and we have the same FOO. And it bothers me a lot now to see how our personalities were so similar growing up. We were both extremely selfish, entitled and self-absorbed and I can see she is still those things. 

Several years after her A and her M ended (not because her XBS didn't want to R, but because she didn't), she says she had Battered Spouse Syndrome and that's why she had an A. I realize I don't know what goes on in someone else's M and call me cold-hearted but I doubt her claim. She never showed signs of abuse before, during or after her M. It doesn't line up with the way her A played out or reflected in how her M ended. She told the family that was because she met her soul mate, not anything about her H or his treatment of her other than they grew apart. Her XBS let her stay living in the family home till she could find a place for her and her AP to move into while leaving her kids behind. But her AP threw her under the bus and decided to stay with his family at the last minute which sure made her mad. She did see herself as THE victim in that situation - not her APBS, or his kids, not her XBS or her own kids - just her. I'm not saying her XBS was a saint but there are 2 sides to every story. 

I'm skeptical of her claim primarily because she doesn't state it except to link it as the direct reason for her A. I think she says it to justify to herself and the new guy in her life as a 'good' reason why she had an A. She's not changed one thing about herself and she thinks everything worked out for the best even though the whole thing f*cked up her kids. Before being a Wayward myself, I would have taken her claim at face value and thought my XBIL must have been a dick and the A was his fault. Really, I don't care what happened in their marriage, except that she's busy trying to convince people of something instead of looking at herself and her own actions in any way. That bugs me. 

The reason I don't give my sister the benefit of the doubt now is not because "everybody hates a victim" and you can think my skepticism is abuse if you want. I'm not disclaiming your allegations of abuse just pointing out that I think our own experiences play a part in how we see things. IMO with everything I've learned and gone through I think it would be irresponsible to accept what a Wayward or anyone for that matter says about their spouse or their M at face value with only side of the story. A lot of A's start that way. 

I think I have a pretty good understanding of what the different forms of abuse looks like now too. In the relationship prior to ours, my BW was beaten repeatedly. Her live-in boyfriend threatened to kill her and described in detail how he would get away with it. I heard all the stories, but being young and immature and not having experience with that myself, I didn't really understand what living in a situation like that does to a person. How victims carry those scars with them. I convinced her to date me. I thought, that's all over with and life is good now and I'm a great BF and a great H and that's all that matters. Worse yet, I swore I would never abuse her. I wouldn't be THAT GUY and I never laid a hand on her, but I abused her just the same. With my behavior prior to my A, during my A and for a long time after too. My betrayal affected her more deeply and hurt a lot more than those beating ever did. It's still hard for me to accept that. 

You walk into a M with personal issues/baggage and even if you leave the M you take all your issues with you. I think that's what people were trying to say and they were met with defensiveness and sarcasm and this thread deteriorated from there. 

Not everyone is going to see things the way you do and they are not going to want to. You ask for feedback, you get what you get. Take what you need and leave the rest.

Hope things work out for you and your family.


My Boundaries are firm: Trespassers will be shot on sight.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Oct 2011
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

First of all, my joking/sarcasm was largely for levity's sake. Things are pretty grim around here (meaning my life, not these boards) and I was just blowing of some steam. Are you experiencing that as abusive? See how abuse can be a subtle thing? It's all about respect and nuance. I guess I was being disrespectful to people trying to help. I'm sorry.

I think I said some kind things to kind people and defended my way of seeing things and I don't think that's a deterioration. It's just not in line with the ideology. i know a lot about how that can very quickly become unpopular--I've been on many of these sites before. I know I'm not alone in my opinion that some of these tenets are great and some are questionable. They're INVENTIONS too, you know?

I took a lot of personal responsibility, you're just not seeing it b/c I have to agree with the whole thing, kit-n-kaboodle, or I'm no good. First off, I ended my A after the first act of intercourse DUE TO GUILT. How many here have done that? xMM pursued me like I was the last woman on earth and I resisted and shut down the A despite still being attracted to him. Got myself in IC RIGHT OFF THE BAT, from the very first "I think I like you" text exchange. I confessed without evidence or getting caught...how is that not personal responsibility? I admitted I have been abusive to my husband. But he has 100% been abusive to me and I was complaining of it long before the affair.

I'm not really down with all the disapproval. Surely I can be healed without swallowing everything whole.

"I don't take what a Wayward says at face value..I am a wayward" That's great that you're working the program but I think too much self-loathing doesn't exactly ring true to me either. I once heard a quote that one form of narcissism is thinking " I'm the biggest piece of sh*t at the center of the universe,"--and I'm not sure too much chest beating really solves the problem.

I do not approve of cheating. Once you cheat that AUTOMATICALLY makes you an a*hole. But it doesn't historically make you one. It doesn't always mean that you have to break down your entire self (damaged, diseased, ridiculous) and build it up to be more like the shiny character of the pure-n-true BS. I just think that is very very skewed. Lots of good people have affairs. People with a huge sense of responsibility and goodness.

People have A's because they are unhappy and looking for some sugar. Often they find cyanide. But they go there because they are unhappy.They can be unhappy in their marriages or unhappy in themselves or a combination of both. Or even a combination of societal pressures to maintain a certain self-image plus the pre-existing unhappiness. Whatever the case, to make the blanket statement that it is NEVER the BS that drives their partner away, and it's ALWAYS the case a WS is a deluded individual misplacing blame, is simply NOT TRUE. There is ZERO evidence of that. Plenty of anecdotal stuff, but it's all interpretive. Through an ideological lens.

What of A's that end with two AP's together? And they announce to friends and family they were unhappy in their marriages but have found happiness together and have committed to it? Are these two " Waywards", then, ALSO inventing their unhappy marriages? Are these two Waywards still in a fog?


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
astudentoflife
Member
Member # 25821
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, January 10th (Friday)

What of A's that end with two AP's together? And they announce to friends and family they were unhappy in their marriages but have found happiness together and have committed to it? Are these two " Waywards", then, ALSO inventing their unhappy marriages? Are these two Waywards still in a fog?

Yep, the are very foggy. Let me draw a picture of what you just asked about and how ludicrous it sounds to me.

Firstly you both married other people and made those same commitments of love to them. Your feelings changed towards your husband, and for whatever reason you have not handled your marriage with dignity and respect, even if that meant to give your husband and children the dignity of you standing up and saying I have had enough and extracting yourself from the marriage with honor, taking everyone else who is affected by that (children, family) into account and doing the right thing.

You are not even in a real relationship with the AP. You two haven't had to deal with real life, everyday boredom and unpleasantness which everyone feels within their marriages from time to time. The popular saying here is it is all unicorns farting rainbows, it ain't real.

To live honestly you need to extract yourself from your marriage. Take time off a relationship and find out your motivations that allowed this kind of dishonesty. Find out why your "picker" is broken, which it obviously is because your husband whom you made these commitments to has turned into someone you don't even like anymore. How do you think that will be different to your AP when times get tough, and they will. The sex can dry up. He can lose interest and go off with someone else, which is likely because you both are dishonest right now. That is the only way for you to find another relationship that is not doomed to failure.

Right now it is indisputable, you are both liars. How can two people who formed a relationship which began with deceit hope for it to last for them. You are both unhappy and found someone who it willing to lie and hurt someone else for their won pleasure. Th AP has hurt you husband and children as much as you have hurt his wife.

If you are willing to stand with this man and announce your love to the world, does that mean you are willing to do what in the other thread you dind't want to do about informing the BW? I don't get you here if that is the case. If you did this you will have fallout and a hurdle to get over right from the beginning of your wonderful romance with your AP. I'm betting he may even throw you under the bus in a minute once his BW finds out the facts. So much for your "love" affair.

These are all the reasons, that for me sound so utterly ridiculous about your statement.


WS:52 Male
BS:47 Female
Working towards R and forgiveness.
Also working on domestic abuse issues (9 months abuse free, working hard for more)
My wife is my greatest teacher and best friend.


Posts: 320 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Florida
Regrette
New Member
Member # 41722
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, January 10th (Friday)

I never, ever thought my relationship with AP was real and I find people who thought so about their affairs, for the most part, silly. I felt desperate, addictive need, it felt like a sickness and I sought IC immediately upon entering the A. Something most people on here, I'm sure, did not do. I only had sex with him ONE time. I should not have to lose EVERYTHING for it, so YES, I am doing a bit of rugsweeping.

Get a grip y'all. I've been cheated on while deeply in love. I cried and screamed for 1 or two days and I was done. I obsessed about the OW, and over time let it go. Realized I don't own my SO's d*ck and if he's just not that into me, we have other problems.

There are two kinds of love. Romantic love and companionate love. Sorry, you don't always get both in a marriage. Sh*t happens. A's have been around since the dawn of time. They probably predate M as we know it.Marriage between soul mates is a 20th century idea, starting about mid-century. Good luck trying to get that to happen in your marriages. Most marriages are just two people getting needs met, as imperfectly as possible and vows are great but they don't have to be written in blood.

I simply posed the question of 2 Waywards in a 2nd M as a question of logic. It simply cannot be true that ALL WS reinvent bad marriages. I see plenty of unilaterally crappy marriages. Where one person is a MONSTER and the other person is awesome. Now, did the " awesome" person MAKE the other a monster? Sure. Absolutely. A relationship is like osmosis--the give and take is CONSTANT and the state it reaches is EXACTLY the result of both parties acting-and-reacting.

And I am of the opinion that many A's happen because BOTH parties create that environment in the relationship. Plenty of health professionals believe that too, it's just these internet sites that place the blame solely on the Wayward. Dunno why I came here to do battle with that, but it doesn't make me a wholly deluded person without faculties.

I get what you're saying, all of you. I just don't AGREE with ALL of it, and it's not because my psychopathy is greater than yours, it's just healthy skepticism.


The Fog gets created because lies create the fog. Like the fog created by criminals in the act of a crime (they won't get caught, they deserve it, etc.) I never had any doubt that what I was doing was a crime against my BH. I turned myself in.

Please try not to focus too hard on my healthy skepticism. It should not induce this much ire; unless you are in a cult mindset, and that explains the white hot rage I am getting here.

[This message edited by Regrette at 10:01 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


Posts: 35 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: blue state
astudentoflife
Member
Member # 25821
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, January 10th (Friday)

It should not induce this much ire; unless you are in a cult mindset, and that explains the white hot rage I am getting here.

You are encountering this ire because you are producing it. Your demeanor is prickly to say the least and we are all humans after all. You don't want the ire, don't produce it and treat kindness with kindness.

This site has helped a lot of people, because that help comes from firsthand knowledge of the members. They know what they are doing because it works!

Do you think your thoughts about marriage and infidelity are unique? Your "ideas" are the same crap we hear from most foggy waywards, myself included once upon a time.

Here are only a few sites found by a quick google search, not SI, that show that we all share a common view of infidelity, marriage and relationships. Read them and discover why your statement about waywards finding the love of their lives in an affair is bunk. They will simply show your question of "logic" is anything but.


http://affairadvice.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/do-affairs-end-up-in-successful-relationships-13/

http://www.emotionalaffair.org/when-affair-partners-marry-9-reasons-why-they-might-fail/

I'll bet you will just shake your fist at the rest of the world and simply alienate everyone else, because you can't be honest with yourself. You don't want honesty, you just want to be right and when someone points that out you rail against them. Not a way to influence people and make friends.


WS:52 Male
BS:47 Female
Working towards R and forgiveness.
Also working on domestic abuse issues (9 months abuse free, working hard for more)
My wife is my greatest teacher and best friend.


Posts: 320 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Florida
OktoberMest
Member
Member # 34173
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, January 10th (Friday)

I only had sex with him ONE time.

Perhaps where you live marriage vows say something different to mine. Mine said "forsaking all others" not "forsaking all others (unless I am really unhappy, obviously") . this is blame shifting. You betrayed your spouse. I understand you may have been unhappy, but that's what communication, counselling or divorce are for. you seem to want people here to say "oh yeah that's fair enough" when you explain why you had an affair. That will not happen. The WSs here have all spouted the same lines you are doing now, which is WHY you are feeling the frustration and anger from some of them. they see themselves, or their prior selves in you, and are desperate to help you understand the truth of it. Some of that is also your own defensiveness. you really don't want to hear what they are saying because if they are right then your justifications fall apart. Remember no-one here actually has a problem with you. as long as you are here, we will try to help you.

I should not have to lose EVERYTHING for it

Why not?. You broke a solemn vow and contract. you made that vow in front of witnesses. You SHOULD lose everything. Divorce is the normal and correct response to infidelity. We made a set of vows which we then broke. Broken families are the natural and predictable outcomes of infidelity. Some of us have BSs that somehow look past what we are now and see what we COULD be, and even fewer of us have BSs that are able to put the agony behind them, or at least process and look at us with genuine love again. But frankly they are the unusual ones. the NORMAL outcome is to lose everything.


Get a grip y'all. I've been cheated on while deeply in love. I cried and screamed for 1 or two days and I was done.

Does this mean we should be taking advice from you on how to process emotions and deal with relationship issues, because they don't seem to be working out to well for you right now. the flip side of what you are saying is that some people sink into a depression from which they never emerge. Some people take their own lives. Study after study show that marriage betrayal is amongst the most painful life event you can experience. I find it interesting that you are able to put it in a box and forget about it after two days. That was handy, because now you are usin gthe contents of that box as rationalisations for your own behaviour. Does this really seem healthy to you, or likely to make you happy in the long run?

One final point, I wanted to pick up on something else you said

People have A's because they are unhappy and looking for some sugar.

People cry because they are unhappy. They eat chocolate. They watch sad movies. They read a book. They become introverted.

People have affairs because they are broken. Maybe they are unhappy, but not always. We see plenty of people on here who basically say "what the fuck happened, what did I just do to my life?". What they do have in common is that they made poor, selfish, thoughtless decisions to fill a hole in themselves without a thought for the pain it would cause others. They, we, put ourselves before other people. It sickens me to write this, but we not only put our own needsand desires before those of other people, we did it at the EXPENSE of other people. I didn't even consider my poor husband. It was all me, me, me. If we are REALLY honest, then we take a long hard look at our lives and ask how often have we done that. Those of us who don't like the answer to that question have work to do.

Your posts come across as very entitled. If you are not getting sex you feel you are entitled to get it elsewhere. If you are not happy you are entitled to get it elsewhere. This is, of course, completely true, but healthy people end the marriage they are in first.

[This message edited by OktoberMest at 6:44 PM, January 10th (Friday)]


Me: FWW (35) Growing up at last.
LonelyHusband: BH (41)
Dday 1: 29/Oct/11; Dday 2:15/Nov/11; last TT 15/Mar/12
In R...working my arse off.
When you're struggling with commitment to your marriage, just imagine what it's like to be a penguin.

Posts: 558 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Get a grip y'all. I've been cheated on while deeply in love. I cried and screamed for 1 or two days and I was done. I obsessed about the OW, and over time let it go. Realized I don't own my SO's d*ck and if he's just not that into me, we have other problems.

^^^This bears looking at more closely. When I looked at my reaction to being cheated on in my first M it was eye opening stuff. I had never in my life allowed anyone close enough to me to fully experience intimacy and love. Working on that now with my BH and it's a whole new world.

When I think about the level of vulnerability it takes for me to let my BH in and have the closeness we are experiencing and then I think of being betrayed it is terrifying. I would not get over it in a few days, weeks, or months.

That's what I did to my BH….


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
circe
Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, January 10th (Friday)

I've been cheated on while deeply in love. I cried and screamed for 1 or two days and I was done.

Well, if that's what it took to get over a betrayal then you should be completely at peace with your husband's request for a divorce, as today is the 10th and he filed for divorce on the 7th. You said this was an unforgivable act on his part and that you were in total despair, but with the passage of three days what once seemed unforgivable must now seem like yesterday's news.

Only my guess is you are still reeling from your BS filing for divorce. And maybe you can use those feelings to build a bridge between the feelings you have and the feelings experienced by others who feel similarly abandoned and betrayed, such as your own BS after your affair.


Posts: 3193 | Registered: Mar 2005
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

Regrette? Are you still around? I hope you're still reading and will continue to post. Many waywards have come in here not liking much in the replies they were getting. The good advice is that anything that gets an emotional response from you, especially anger or the urge to turn away from it, needs to be looked at very closely by you. Go against your instinct and really sit with it and examine it. What could it hurt?


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

I edit often because I make a lot of typos. ☺️


Posts: 1499 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Topic Posts: 55