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Reconciliation
User Topic: Questioning so many things past 17 months.
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, January 10th (Friday)

I have questioned so many things the past 17 months.....from feelings to facts. What it means to love, what is love, why did I marry my wife, my motivations for what I do, who am I, who do I want to be, who was I, etc... etc.. etc...

It has spawned many a trek from the main journey through adultery.


Since the start of adultery appeared to me like the time in my life where I just started dating a girl....all fun and excitement and no drudgery and angst....I mistakenly gave what my wife and her AP had too much credit.

While there are the "newness excitements" associated with the start of it, there is a very stark difference. Mind you my wife and her AP were NOT life long friends....really, their meeting turned into an A almost instantly....so this is just my experience with adultery. I suspect those whose adultery started with a life long friend or even a close business person will not agree with what I am about to post.

When I first met my wife...I noticed her outward beauty. I find many women physically attractive...and my wife is physically attractive. I was dating an attractive woman when my wife showed interest in dating me. When my wifes AP first met my wife I have no doubt he found her physically attractive too.

But where my wife's AP next step went is different than where mine went. For that matter, where my wifes next step went with him is different than the next step she took with me back then. In her affair, both involved showed just exactly what they were capable of.....showed their lesser traits right off the bat.

In a healthy "dating situation" a person would pick up on that choice and choose to NOT be engaged with someone so willing to betray another.

Instead, in adultery it appears both people are willing to overlook such a dreadful choice. I get that when I was dating my wife, love blinded me to some of her lesser traits...and we were both actively putting our best foot forward.

But in an affair, even if it is all unicorn farts....the fact of their choices is unavoidable.

And yet, people choose to avoid them.

For my wifes AP, it was purely a physical drive. I say this so confidently for two reasons. First, he dumped her within weeks of getting to fuck her for the first time. Second, he replaced her with another woman within months of dumping her.

Unfortunately, he matters the least in this equation....and yet I am most confident in his motives. I think that is a combination of me being a man and the facts at hand.

I am less confident in why my wife chose to ignore such strong evidence that this is NOT the type of man to dedicate your life to. I get that it was an escape and a throw back to her FOO issues. I also get that it was a way for her to let her feelings finally run wild.

At the end of the day on this trek..this is what I have come to conclude.


Both my wife and her AP were NOT trying to "win each other for life" as my wife and I did with our "dating phase". They were both just interested in the moment. They were not gathering facts about each other or learning more about each other.....they were choosing to remain ignorant about each other and their situation....for to gather facts would shatter their fantasy and their relationship would end (90% of all AP's who D their BS and marry each other end in D).

"If you win a person on shallow traits, you will lose that person for the same reasons."

Healthy dating is an opportunity to get to know the person, feel them out to see if they are worthy of committing a lifetime of choosing to love and support them, to starting and nurturing a family and life together.

It appears to me that my wife and her AP did the opposite of that.....they actively choose to ignore the facts at hand and base life-altering decisions strictly on feelings. She had unprotected sex with him with no discussion of past sexual history nor proof that he was actually "fixed"....just went with their feelings.

NOTE: Odds are that a middle aged man and middle aged woman are at a higher risk of having STD's. Odds are that a person willing to betray their spouse will betray you. Odds are a person willing to lie about an affair is also prone to lying about other things, like being fixed. This is where a heatlhy person would gather facts to prove or disprove the "odds".

I suspect this is one of the drivers to the speed in which her A took off......maybe a sense of urgency.....like they both knew that if they took their time, it would dissolve before they got to the really "good stuff"?

When I was dating....I did not have a sense of urgency to get M. My wife had the same mode of operation.


It is often said that affairs are not about the AP's or the BS's....it is about the WS. I subscribe to this theory....more so as time passes.

Healthy dating IS about the other person....seeing who they are, what they are made of.


Still.....wrestling with how completely and aggressively my wife was choosing adultery over our M and our family. How her AP was doing the same thing.

I am grateful for where we are at now. I still find myself working on similarities between what she shared with him versus what we shared together.

This is where I am at with regards to the respectiive starts to her two distinctly different relationships.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:34 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, January 10th (Friday)

Bodies deteriorate, personalities develop over time.


This is a truth that I am actively and passively trying to instil in our daughters.

If they win a guy by their physcial beauty alone, they will lose him for the same reason.


That is NOT to say physcial beauty has no place...I believe it does. That is a primary attractant for a guy. But "attracting" and "winning" are two different things.

My wifes physical beauty attracted me to her....the 4 years I knew and dated her before I choose to ask her to marry me was the period of time in which she won my heart. I have been physically attracted to many women, still are....but only one has won my heart and, at that point, the physical attraction part was almost a non-player (because of the commonality of this trait in most women....I find most women attractive.).

She did this by what I observed of her actions....from things like her views on nature and life, her goals, her past success's and failures, her struggles and hopes, and how she prioritized where she spent her time and energy.

As near as I can tell, my wife never did this with her AP. That relationship was built on texts and erotic moments as they stole time away with each other. She openly admits that no in-depth discussion on environmental issues, family rearing, etc.. took place.

Even the "I feel so bad about doing what I am doing" conversations were not conversations. They appeared to be stated so that the other can say "Yeah, but its not that big of a deal. I can over look that. Lets kiss."....and this was the response to any real-life discussion that tried to start.

Peace be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:18 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, January 10th (Friday)

My wife is still a physically attractive woman. This trial has aged us both...but I still find her physically attractive. Again, young to old I find physical attractiveness in most women.

I have been really tempted by physical attraction to other women over the past 17 months.

What has kept me willing to learn to R with my wife is.....what I experienced during my dating phase. What put my wife in the "winning circle" with my heart is still there. My wifes AP never got to see that part of my wife. He did not have 20 years of "seeing" my wife. He saw what he wanted in her, he blinded himself to what he didnt want to see in her. My wife did the same to him.

17 months of this and I have seen things I didnt want to see in my wife either....tried to avoid it....but I could not. I did NOT want to be blind....not at the heart of me.

Even when the pain is tremendous I don't want to be blind to who the woman who won my heart is.

I am sorry for the blindness I DID allow to creep into our marriage.....the blindness to my own destructive actions pre-A, the blindness to my own FOO influences.

I also have a distaste for looking at my own blindness...but am committed to seeing it in its entirety too.

God be with me as I learn to see all of what I need to see.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:05 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, January 10th (Friday)

Blake, I love your posts, and the fact that you are so introspective. Your wife is a very lucky woman to be married to such a self aware person, but this:
I still find myself working on similarities between what she shared with him versus what we shared together

IMO, is a waste of time. Apples to oranges. There is no comparison. It is simply a matter of 2 people stroking each others ego, (and other parts, lol, sorry, couldn't resist) in an effort to keep the 'magic' going, so they could feed their monsters, (what was lacking within themselves).

Sorry, just realized this was R forum.

[This message edited by painpaingoaway at 8:43 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7102 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, January 10th (Friday)

I want to write more about this later, but painpain, you hit the nail on the head.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 8:40 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2065 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, January 10th (Friday)

Totally agree painpaingoaway....throw back to my obsessive thinking phase.

I am no longer actively working on that, but is still a thought......but it was an active part of me, part of my journey back then. I have almost gotten to the point you suggest, and I agree with, I should be at. I just decided I was ready to post this now.

Your wife is a very lucky woman to be married to such a self aware person


It was not all "noble" of me either (contemplating what it was like to be in an A)....I contemplated this back when RA was a real threat, a real temptation for me. I was figuring out what I could gain by a RA. I settled with the thought that if a time came that I would sleep with another woman other than my wife....it would come after we file for D. I sat on my feelings...and came to this conclusion.

I will also humbly submit that I was not one to sit on feelings too long pre-A. I had unchecked passion at times....and it was not healthy enthusiasm. I fear my posts sometime elude to the fact that I am evolved more than your average man....I am not.


I appreciate your taking issue with my posts.

I still struggle with pride and ego....trying to figure out what it is to be humble.

THAT journey is worthy of my time!

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:08 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, January 10th (Friday)

It is simply a matter of 2 people stroking each others ego

This is the start and stop to the link of how I remember my initial dating experience with my wife went and her A relationship went.....granted that was 20 years ago....but I am pretty confident we did a fare amount of ego stroking back in the day too.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:09 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, January 10th (Friday)

It was not all "noble" of me either (contemplating what it was like to be in an A)....I contemplated this back when RA was a real threat, a real temptation for me.
Well, at least you took a moment to try to 'contemplate' rather than immediately acting on the thought.

I was in such a state, that I went to a bar, had a few drinks, reeled in some guy, (yes, it really is that easy), and was getting ready to leave with him, and I suddenly had some sort of out of body experience. It was truly weird, probably fueled by alcohol, and my illness, (hyperthyroxinemia brought on by the extreme stress), but it was like I floated above myself sitting at the bar, looked down at myself and the guy, and I saw myself as a slut, about to leave with some married guy, about to destroy not only myself and another family I didn't even know.

I immediately got up and ran out of the bar, thank god.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7102 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, January 10th (Friday)

I am pretty confident we did a fare amount of ego stroking back in the day too.
well of course you did. But you were not married to other people at the time, (well, I hope you weren't).


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7102 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
eachdayisvictory
Member
Member # 40462
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, January 10th (Friday)

Interesting. I guess it's a bit of a different boat for us LTA survivors. My H did develop all of those things that you get to keep between your W and you. They did the one thing that I've ALWAYS wanted from my H; talk.

For me, everything sacred has been broken, and the journey to search for that, or even the hope of getting something 'back', is fruitless.

I asked him how she got him to 'talk', and he said she just hounded him and wouldn't let him not talk. That hurts a lot. Made me feel for a while like I could have done more to get my H to open up, or like he gave it away to a cheating liar but wouldn't give it to me. I hate that. I hate that he was so stupid that he couldn't see what he was witholding from me and giving to another. I could become invisible just thinking about that. So I don't.

He was broken. He was so so so so broken. All of this is down to him. As I release the responsibility for this A entirely to my H, I am returning to myself (a new woman though, the old me was murdered by my H and his AP). As I return to myself, I have witnessed a huge increase in love, affection, compassion and caring from my H. I find myself tempted to be cold (our old relational pattern of being pissy and cold, then sucking up when one goes too far and the roles reverse, ugh), and fight against it.

Act in loving ways even when you are not FEELING loving.

That's my mantra as I reach a new level of our R. I will not make the same mistakes my H made, nor the mistakes the old me made. Feelings are not the only part of love. That's a hard lesson to learn.

Kinda rambly, just wanted to chuck in my two cents for the day.


me, BW: 34
FWH: 35
Dday: Feb 2013
LTA for 2+years
children: 2 boys age 3 and 6
Reconciling

Posts: 380 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nova Scotia, Canada
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, January 10th (Friday)

If they win a guy by their physcial beauty alone, they will lose him for the same reason.

The girls, well everyone actually, IMO, need to know "going after someone" or wanting to win a person isn't what finding love is about.

There is no winning, it isn't a game. It's a journey to find a person who will inspire, commit, grow with and challenge you. Someone to spend you life with that has like-minded qualities and values.

Unfortunately many of us are choosing the partner for the rest of our lives with little to no real emotional growth behind us.

Many of us are young, niave about marriage and the struggles it and life have to offer. Some people grow together and realize these important pieces and other folks, do not.

But when an A happens and we are awakened to the flaws within ourselves, our marriage and our partner we have an opportunity to grab the chance to do it right. We can heal ourselves, our spouses can learn and grow from it, resulting in a different union. One born of growth, learning, trust, compassion and mature experience verses the old relationship we carried and stumbled with prior to the A.

I still think when I was getting married at 20 someone should have smacked me in the head and said..WTF do you think you know about love?

Hell, I didn't even know about myself.

Live and learn...we stumbled together


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3846 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 10th (Friday)

I still think when I was getting married at 20 someone should have smacked me in the head and said..WTF do you think you know about love?
Yes, but we would not have listened.

[This message edited by painpaingoaway at 9:33 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7102 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, January 10th (Friday)

Yes, but we would not have listened

PPGA, I agree

BUT it still makes me go

Nobody, my parents, his parents, numerous aunts uncles,

Someone should have at least said, hey let's sit down and talk about marriage. Lets talk about life and money and having kids....

I would never send my daughter or son off to get married without at least letting them know that it is work.

I walked into it expecting roses and glitter to consistently flow from our asses....hell when I found out the only thing flowing was shit you coulda knocked me over with a feather!!


[This message edited by karmahappens at 9:42 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3846 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
ILINIA
Member
Member # 39836
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, January 10th (Friday)

So I took a chance this week...

As you know, I have the chat logs, emails, and text messages from the A. It is a double-edge sword, but at least I know what they communicated about and how.

WH is in a better spot of actually processing what happened. I feel that the past 7 months he has been in fire-fighting mode trying to support me (talking, reading, writing, retrouvaille, post-nup) and had not had time to really think about the A for himself. He had a of a breakthrough last week, but I realized he still didn't get a piece of it.

I sent him their chat logs which he had not seen. (He showed me the chats on dday, I saved them to my account, and we deleted them). I asked him to read it from my perspective, a wife that trusted him with her heart and her family.

blakesteele - this is where you post hit home

I reread them as well. It is not easy reading, as there are lies, the two of them poking fun at me, and of course the sexual nature. On the other hand, it is so superficial. They aren't bonding, just stroking egos about how attractive and smart they are and how their sexual appetite is just not getting satisfied. Heck, if aliens would read it they would conclude that they were the two most successful, attractive, sexiest, smartest, and hyper-sexed people on our planet while the rest of us must be dull and unsightly!

They didn't talk about real things like birth control and past sexual history either. WH has had a vasectomy, but he doesn't mention it until after they have sex, but who knows what COW was thinking. They have no idea how many partners each had etc. Obviously, WH doesn't mention anything about using viagra or any of his medical conditions, one is pretty serious, which of course would ruin fantasy land.

WH responded that he got so sick reading it, he had to stop. He realizes how shallow and immature it was and said it was two broken people using each other. The parts he hated the most is when he would mention our kids and our dog. It was all a charade of how great a dad he was and she would feed into it. He is disgusted that he brought the kids into the ugliness.

Motives: I think this is why I keep the logs. WH is using her for escapism. He is not looking for a life partner and never says anything about leaving me. For the past couple of years, I would say he was spiraling downward. He worked all the time and disconnect with us. He found someone just as broken as him and willing to puff up his ego and tell him how great he was instead of calling him out as a workaholic who was a jackass to his family.

As for her motive, I can see she is testing him with statements like "I'm just the mistress, right?" or "What if we roll back the clock ten years and you don't have kids?" WH doesn't bite, probably because he's a little dense with women and doesn't realize she is putting out feelers. Since he doesn't play into it, they go right back to feeding egos. As more time passes I see her differently. She really is a non-entity. WH has admitted that he focused on her because she showed signs early on she was "willing", therefore, if it hadn't been her, it would have been the next "willing" broken soul.

Sorry about the long t/j, but I wanted to tell you that I have the physical evidence that supports your post. Again, good timing blakesteele, you seem to be person lately that is able to write with clarity about what is going on in my head when I am not in lizard/reptile brain mode!


Entering R slowly and cautiously...

Posts: 492 | Registered: Jul 2013
totalheartbreak
Member
Member # 41589
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, January 10th (Friday)

blakesteele, finding your post this morning really helped me. it gives me some hope that whatever the outcome, i'll be ok. I appreciate your thoughtful introspection. thank you.

When I was dating....I did not have a sense of urgency to get M.

Healthy dating IS about the other person....seeing who they are, what they are made of.

this was/is me.

It is often said that affairs are not about the AP's or the BS's....it is about the WS. I subscribe to this theory....more so as time passes.

there is more truth in this than i can comprehend.



Me: BH (30s)
Wayflost: WW (30s)
"Ever notice those that advocate anything for 'happiness' are perennially unhappy?"
time isn't what you think it is.

Posts: 158 | Registered: Dec 2013
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, January 10th (Friday)

I was in such a state, that I went to a bar, had a few drinks, reeled in some guy,

I got to the point where I let a woman feel my gotee....and enjoyed the attention and flattering comments on it......so I, too, did a bit more than just think about it. Cant say for sure if it was a "sure thing" but she was showing no signs of turning her attention away from me. It was at a conference and I didnt know the woman....just part of a group socializing evening event....alcohol present.....

I was letting a long standing boundary move....I had already stayed longer at this social gathering than I would have in years past......I pretty much left to go to my room.

Sucky part is....I had very few boundaries pre-A.....and the one that I had for decades....moved.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 10:53 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, January 10th (Friday)

Interesting. I guess it's a bit of a different boat for us LTA survivors. My H did develop all of those things that you get to keep between your W and you. They did the one thing that I've ALWAYS wanted from my H; talk.

(((eachdayavictory)))

I am sorry for your situation....I knew this was a gamble of this post....that it would cause LTA people to re-evaluate all that they lost. I knew this, but still choose to post this post. I pray for all affected by adultery....and can only imagine what it is like to have a LTA vs. the short, intense A my wife chose to have.

I reread them as well. It is not easy reading, as there are lies, the two of them poking fun at me, and of course the sexual nature. On the other hand, it is so superficial. They aren't bonding, just stroking egos about how attractive and smart they are and how their sexual appetite is just not getting satisfied. Heck, if aliens would read it they would conclude that they were the two most successful, attractive, sexiest, smartest, and hyper-sexed people on our planet while the rest of us must be dull and unsightly!

ILINIA....totally get this. I remember reading things about how my wife felt and viewed that directly related to me....not only to her AP but to her sister and a close friend about the list of poor traits I had. It was during the fog period, but it still hurt and was hard to read. The whole "Yeah, this isnt right....but, look, its just how it is." thought process is what leads to intentional blindness and justification that what AP's are engaged in is NOT a fantasy.....

Great responses, as usual, Karmahappens. Perhaps winning is NOT the right word....what I am referring to is more a "crossing a threshold" that changes the relationship from dating to marriage. My wife had full on unprotected sex with another man, she was intentionally pulling energy out of our M and away from our family to enable her to engage her....so she crossed some sort of threshold too....but it was done out of dishonesty and deception (even between her and her AP0, while the threshold-crossing that took place for us to both get M was done out of honesty and at least an attempt to see each other more completely.....

....and no, if someone told me back then that I didnt have a clue what love was I would not have believed them.

I do wonder if really good pre-M counciling would have helped us at least see our FOO issues that could be POTENTIAL stumbling blocks....and at least give us more of an opportunity to work on them....then perhaps their subconscience influence on us would have been more conscience?

I like the "stumble together" analogy of M.

While my wife and I didn't fully know what love and intimacy was as we decided to get married.....we dang sure didnt have a relationship built so blantantly on lies, on feelings that go against most of the facts at hand.


Good responses by all. Again, I am sorry for those LTA that diverge from much of what I am posting here.

God be with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, January 10th (Friday)

I've always liked my W's looks, and my senses have told me that some other men like her looks, too. That was never a problem. I know for a fact that at least one gay woman liked her looks, too, and that didn't turn my W's head. In my W's case, it was a matter of personalities and ow's manipulation, not looks. (That's an observation, not a mitigation. Without the manipulation, there would have probably been no A. Even with the manipulation, my W could have and should have kept herself safe.)

For me, the A threw everything I thought I knew about me, her, and us into question. I wish I could separate the strands out like you can blake, but I can't - but I questioned everything.

T/ J #1

I still think when I was getting married at 20 someone should have smacked me in the head and said..WTF do you think you know about love?

I was 23 at my wedding. 2 hours before the ceremony, my parents asked to talk a bit, and my mother asked, 'Are you sure you know what you're doing?'

Since part of my decision was based on the fact that my parents liked W2B, that really was a WTF moment, because I knew for sure the only honest answer was, 'Hell, no!'.

OTOH, karma + pain + me = 100+ married years, not counting our spouses' years. We sure knew something about love and M, if only that we knew we could learn pretty quick.

T/J #2 - I think most of us go into shock in the first weeks after D-Day. IMO, contemplating an RA is normal and par for the course. Making moves toward picking up a RAP is probably less common (I mean, I didn't do it, so I know at least one BS contemplated an RA without taking action), but I won't fault anyone for doing that. In my view, stopping before actual betrayal wipes away the stain.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:34 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10383 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, January 10th (Friday)

ILINIA....no need to apologize for t/j....you never did it, and even if you did it would not offend me.

I wanted to respond to your lengthy post....the following are spot on what happened in my wifes A too.

They didn't talk about real things like birth control and past sexual history either.
Zero discussion on sexual history, one mention in one sentence about how he was fixed.


mention our kids and our dog.
They both dropped their kids off (our 2, his 5) and met up immediately afterwards. They talked about their kids...shared their hopes and joys about them with each other. They both went on walks in the park with our family dog, him petting and snuggling with it. Both of these acts were used to help propogate the combined joint desired thought of "Look how great we both are. Minus the fact that we are married....just look how compatible, compassionate, and nurturing we are.".

I can see she is testing him with statements like "I'm just the mistress, right?" or "What if we roll back the clock ten years and you don't have kids?" WH doesn't bite, probably because he's a little dense with women and doesn't realize she is putting out feelers.
My wife and her AP both tested each other....totally disregarding the results of those tests. My wife would admit to him "I feel really bad about what I am doing, do you?" He would reply "Well, my M is one that is what it is...never really have been honest with each other.". He would say "We can stop if you would like"...pointing out how noble he was, how he cared about her....she would respond with "Well, I guess if you are okay with taking or leaving this affair, I am too.....lets just meet a little less".

Of course, I don't know if these were the exact exchanges...but I have asked plenty of questions and believe all of that captures how they interacted.

Now, having found out more about her AP lifestyle....and that he may have had a woman before my wife and did find another woman within months of dumping my wife....I'd say he got what he planned for all along....a bit of strange. My wife, I dont believe, was as calculated as that....not at the begining anyway. I do believe that she was every bit as "all-in" as he was...after all, she was not raped. But on the onset, her intentions changed....while her AP's were pretty clear.

I see my wife struggling with this as a possibile reality now. I see her wondering how she could have heard and seen specific actions from her AP and interpretted them so differently than they actually were.

As more time passes I see her differently. She really is a non-entity. WH has admitted that he focused on her because she showed signs early on she was "willing", therefore, if it hadn't been her, it would have been the next "willing" broken soul.
This is what I, too, came to realize. Took months of IC sessions...but my wifes AP really was as much of a non-issue as I was. This is one of the main reasons I did not insist that we move out of our small town....that would not provide me any real safety....there are plenty of willing men out there to engage in adultery if my wife decides she would like to do that again.

We have friends in this town that moved from Los Angeles to get a daughter away from drugs.....not in town for 1 year and, guess what, she found people to hang with and do drugs.

you seem to be person lately that is able to write with clarity about what is going on in my head when I am not in lizard/reptile brain mode!
I do nothing more than post lots and lots and lots of words.....thank you for the compliment though!

At the end of the day, these two statments drive my efforts to R with my wife.

"Change occurs when the pain of same is greater than the pain of change."

"We know better, so we can choose to do better."

Here is to all of us, BS and fWS alike, who are willing to change what we can within us and choose to do better as we accomplish this change by applying the wisdom lifes trials afford us all.


Peace to us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 11:39 AM, January 10th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Topic Posts: 19