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User Topic: Wife had a one night stand last night
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Hello. Sadly until an hour ago I didn't know this site existed, and the fact that I'm typing this kind of thing seems completely XXXXing ridiculous.
My wife and I have been together for 17 years, since we were at university, and we have been married for seven of those (unbelievable, eh?).
We have always had an unbelievably good relationship, to the point that as recently as around a year ago, two different friends of ours (in separate relationships) pointed out to me on the same night that the we should be proud as our relationship was so much better than their and everyone else's respective ones.
However, in the past year or so, things have actually gotten slightly (though I thought THAT much) worse, as she wants to have a child and I'm not bothered. Nevertheless, we have been trying for the past year.
My wife can be quite temperamental when drunk and when we went out over Christmas (and had a really nice night), while really drunk, she decided to lapse into listing problems with our relationship and said she thought we needed counselling. We can get quite frustrated with each other and bicker, but we're not really prone to actual full blown arguments and things are always resolved pretty quickly (they're never things that fester over night, or require us to sleep separately, etc). I, however, acquiesced to try counselling, though my point was that, now that she had aired this, maybe we should try resolving things ourselves before we did that.
This convo gave me a bit of a kick up the arse (I can be quite grumpy and impatient with my wife sometimes) and things have been noticeably better for the past few weeks (we have delayed the counselling idea for now and it seemed to be working). We went out in London on NYE on our own all night and had a great time, and two days ago my wife got in from work and we had spontaneous sex in the hallway (not something that would happen that often). A week ago we put down £500 on a dream holiday (not in any way related to trying to sort problems or anything - we matter of factly booked a holiday).
Anyway, my wife went out on a work do last night and texted late (while I was asleep) to say she had missed her train home and was going to stay overnight in the hotel where the work do was/she had a training course next day, as work were paying. I thought this was a bit strange, but as we're married and (I thought) in a good relationship, I got on with my day.
She got in at 6pm tonight (five hours ago) and immediately told me she had been up drinking until 5am. She fell off her seat and when she got up to go back to her room, a colleague (divorced, one child) said he'd walk her back to her room. Not quite sure how the next bit came about but they then had unprotected sex and slept in the same room for whatever remained of the night, then walked to their conference together. She has taken the morning after pill.
We have talked about it but I don't know what their really is to say. I'm being very calm about it and she is being very apologetic and can't look me in the eye, though isn't too keen to fess up to the reasons she did it. Basically, 'I was drunk, I've ruined everything and I'm sorry.' I did at one point get her to acknowledge that she chose to do it and that it must have been because she wanted to have sex with him. She told me as soon as she got home and keeps asking me if I want to stay together (as she does). I've told her I don't think it's fair to ask me at this point. She has said (unprompted) that she will quit her job and drinking.
At first I felt numb and after a cursory disscussion I walked off and eventually cried briefly twice. Then we had a proper longer conversation.
She's now in the spare room and I'm sat here typing this. The problem is that I literally don't know what to do with myself. I've got a horrible feeling that I'm going to sit here all night, what else do you do? Any kind of distraction seems inconsequential and pointless, and it feels like this void will go on for some time if we try and make a go of things.
I'm truly pissed off with her, but I never pictured myself as a divorcee living in a shared house in my late 30s; though nor did I picture myself in a marriage with someone who would do something that sh1t to me. The question I guess is what do I do now? And I mean NOW? She wants to talk but I don't know what there really is to say.
I don't really want to call a friend and land this sh1tpie in their lap (and it's too late now), and part of me thinks I should get drunk but I'm not sure that's a great idea either.
I love my wife, but most of my thoughts at the moment seem to be about the painful logistics of selling the house and the brand new car we got three months ago (great!) which doesn't to me seem like a good sign. However, the idea of starting again with someone else who isn't my wife isn't appealing either.
Thanks.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 6:05 PM, January 10th (Friday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Tickingtock
Member
Member # 41411
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, January 10th (Friday)

I don't have any advice but wanted to let you know that you have been heard.

Hugs (((TheWrongedMan)))

But, uh, was it truly consensual??


Me: 31, exBGF, now married

Posts: 184 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: West Coast, USA
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Yes, and I'm not deluding myself into thinking otherwise. Haven't really gone into the details of what happened. Think we need to talk about this but don't really want to hear about it right now. Am guessing this is a common feeling...

Thanks.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Tickingtock
Member
Member # 41411
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, January 10th (Friday)

1) Sorry to ask that, had to. Being drunk did not cause her to cheat. I'm so sorry.

2) Read the Healing Library (box in the top left of the screen). Wiser people will be along to give you advice.

In the meantime, don't feel pressured to do anything. You don't have to talk to her right now. But if you do, she has to talk to you. You also don't (and really shouldn't) make a decision any time soon about your marriage.


Me: 31, exBGF, now married

Posts: 184 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: West Coast, USA
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Really no need to apologise and thanks for the advice. Hope you're good too.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 6:55 PM, January 10th (Friday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Obviously she needs to get tested for STD's and its important to make this situation as unpleasant as possible for her to prevent a future reoccurrence. If you rugsweep this cheating with quick forgiveness, then a repeat is on the cards.

In my FWH's adultery I asked him to leave the bedroom and sleep alone for 6 months as well as getting tested. No sex obviously.
The point is I made it a throughly horrible disaster for him too by turning his world upside down as well as mine.

Tell you wife you are seriously considering separation and you don't whether your marriage has a future. It may not be accurate but its part of shaking your WW's security. Also cancel plans to have children for a few years, until most of the trust comes back, and take someone else on holiday; leave your wife at home. Your wife might be upset at not having children right now, but thats the consequence of cheating - loss of trust.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Hi, have already agreed to STD checks and a pregnancy test. Agreed that the issue of a baby (which I think is really behind all this, first real schism we've had in our general relationship in 17 years) is now off the table. Which makes it all the more ridiculous on her part, as she was the one pushing for it, and as she's 38 soon, this could be the end of it for good.

Threatening to leave not a problem as it's how I feel, am trying to be rational and calm now while it sinks in though. Immediate problem, I think, is going to be getting through life with minimal sleep. Never thought I'd be the kind of person that ends up in therapy and on tablets.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, January 10th (Friday)

(Re holiday, hilariously we've booked to go away with my brother and his girlfriend, and literally this evening they've been Facebooking me saying that we need to sort accommodation by tomorrow and to get back asap. I am yet to respond.)


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Hi Wronged.

It's probably safe to say you're in shock right now. You're right, you'll be up all night tonight. You're thought process is going to be impaired for a little while. Its best not to make any life changing decisions at this point.

It sounds like your WW is remorseful, and that's good. You don't have to deal with a WW who thinks she's in love with a POS and blames you for it.

You will survive this. Your going to be all right. It may take a little while to get there but your life will improve and will become normal again. You may even be able to save your marriage. That parts going be hard, but it is possible. We'll try to help you as best we can. There are alot of folks here with similar experiences who will able to guide you on the road ahead. Keep posting, drink lots or water, eat when you can (try meal replacement drinks), don't use alcohol to try and relax.

Be strong.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 8:52 PM, January 10th (Friday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Don't know whether you are as willing to start a family at your age anyway, but I agree that your wife was incredibly stupid to cheat. Now you have a very legitimate excuse to delay pregnancy for a few years based on the need to reestablish trust. Don't want the stress of babies and a cheating wife. Given her age you might want to cancel plans to start a family anyway.

What was she trying to do, conceive a child with the OM given it wasn't happening with you? Not too drunk to agree to sex and put the marriage in dire peril; what else was going through her mind? She needs to be honest and give her reasons for cheating.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, January 10th (Friday)

One small positive point from this terrible thing that has happened to you is that she confessed (or did i read that wrong?).

Your old marriage is dead. You have to make the choice between starting a new one with your wife or leaving. The fact that she confessed to you means that you have a much greater chance of reconciliation in my opinion.

However, this does not excuse her behavior. She chose to cheat. She decided to list all the faults in your relationship presumably to justify her hooking up with the coworker.

This is what I would do, if i was in your position:

1) Tell her to write down what happened.
2) Then threaten her with a polygraph. If she refuses, then I'm afraid there is a lot more to the story. You do not physically have to take her to a polygraph - you are just looking for her reaction.
3) Ask her to tell her mother what she has done. This is not to humiliate her!! This is a consequence for her betraying you and shining a light on her affair.
4) Go to a Lawyer to see your options and start protecting yourself in terms of finances etc.

For many people, infidelity is a deal breaker. There is nothing wrong with moving on from this. However, unlike the vast majority of the depressing stories here, at least she confessed to you. Admittedly it is like being robbed and then finding $5 on the street, but it is a small positive.

You do not have to make a life changing choice right now, but do not allow her off the hook for betraying you. This does not mean that you should start shouting and humiliating her, but rather that she is responsible for what has happened.

It is OK to feel like shit right now. Come here and vent as much as you want.

My thoughts are with you.



Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Hi TWM. Welcome.

I am so sorry for your pain.

Unless you think you would like to go on the vacation regardless of current circumstances, I think you should tell your brother that an emergency has come up, and that if at all possible, could he find another couple that might be willing to take the place of you and your wife for the vacation.

Don't even try to go. You will be miserable, and that in turn will make it miserable for your brother and his GF also.

I can't tell you how many similar stories I have heard here on SI of couples going thru with vacations that had already been planned, and being completely and utterly miserable the entire time.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7092 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
PRNDL
Member
Member # 41927
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, January 10th (Friday)

Way too soon for you right now to an and worry about the future. Hell, a month out is too soon.

Review the Tactical Primer thread, the 180D thread, and only focus on you. Eat, sleep, and so on. Visit the healing library.

Get tested forbSTD's. Ask anyone here on SI. All cheaters seem to do and say all the same things, such as: "i need space", "I love you but im not in live with you", trickle truth, gas lighting, multiple D-days, false reconciliation, lies, lies, and more lies.

Be ready for ANYTHING, if she said it was a one night stand, be prepaired to one day learn that they been seeing each other for a year and so on.

Believe nothing.

I love the 180D. Best thing ever. Read the rules. Live them. Implement the 180D as soon as you are strong.

Do not limbo please. Leave her or R. If she bull shits you, leave. One way or another 180D her ass.

This is very soon. I was cool and calm for about a week. I was very proud of myself, until the debilitating panic attacks and anxiety hit me. I had to be heavily medicated for about 4 months.

Dont ignore triggers or obsessions, but dont let them consume you either. There is no avoiding or going around your feelings. Go through them. You are your own worse enemy right now, so be gentle with your self.

Good luck. We are here for you.

[This message edited by PRNDL at 10:26 PM, January 10th (Friday)]


BH: 35 (me)
WS: 30 / OM: 30
Son: 11
Affair: 1.5 year long 2012
ONS with stranger Feb 2013
D-day #1 March 2013
D-day #2 April 2013
D-day #3 Sept 2013
Affair continued.
Limbo 7 months
Moved out - 180D - NC
Divorced
She recently ended it with OM

Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Tampa Florida
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

Hello,

Thank you all for your help. Much appreciated and without it, all this would be the same thoughts going around in circles in my head endlessly.

One of things I have learnt from here is this could be worse. As said, she confessed straight away and it was one night stand, not an affair. I have every reason to believe her about this, as firstly she doesn't normally sleep away from home at short notice, so I don't know when else it would have happened, and secondly she came in and told me straight away. If this had been an ongoing relationship, not sure why she would blurt it out now. If she had come in and told me that she'd been out late and had to sleep over for work, I wouldn't have thought anything of it and that would have been that (ironically, the fact that we were open/trusting with each other, and don't try and dictate to each other, was always regarded by as being one of the fundamentals that made our relationship work well).

Re what to do now, my plan was to go alcohol-free for this month (as, ironically, was hers!) and I am going to continue with that, as recommended on here. The next social engagement I have that 'requires' drinking is in early Feb, so am going to wait and see until then.

Today we obviously need to sit down and have a long discussion about what happened, what she was thinking and why. I really don't know how productive it will be to go into the grizzly specifics here. Any advice?
Not sure how else I'm going to fill the day, but my plan was to exercise and then do some work on our house. It would seem that being busy is a good thing, and as watching TV or reading feels inconsequential now, this seems like a good plan to carry on with (espec as we might need to sell the house soon!)

If there is a checklist or procedure to this, it seems like the other things to do are:

Set up STD/pregnancy tests
Book myself in for counselling (although I don't mind sharing my feelings, I don't regard myself as being a particularly 'pro-counselling' person. However, I've seen it recommended and am
prepared to give it a go with an open mind)
Also, not sure who else I can talk to - don't feel like telling a friend
Set up counselling for us (I might leave this a few days as the advice seems to be to be non-commital about the way ahead for a few days)
If I'm honest, seeing a lawyer or getting polygraph test both seem a little extreme at this stage

All in all, this all feels like treading water while I/we wait and see how we feel when the dust settles. The worrying thing is that if she has told me things were going to sh1t before this happened, I feel like what's the point in trying to save it now that this has? And frankly, do I really want to have sex with her ever again knowing what's happened?

Thanks again for your support, really appreciated, and I hope you are all okay and are receiving advice as good as I have.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

Regarding the grizzly details, everybody is different. Some need to know size, number of times, positions, etc. I got very little because I did not want to know---and I'm glad for it. Ask what YOU need when you need it. Just make sure in your mind that you truly do want to know. Also make sure you are not going to hear things simply because she want to get things off her chest.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 408 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

Do you know the OM? Are you sure he is divorced? He may be divorced, but have a girlfriend,fiancee, or SO. If he does, they need to be told. They deserve to know the truth about the man they are involved with, and they need to be tested for STD's.

Im sorry you're here, but glad you found us. Welcome.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7674 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
deena04
Member
Member # 41741
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

I agree with the posts about 180 and STD testing and such. I also want to tell you that this is NOT your fault at all. Get rest, eat, drink water, and take care of YOU!! Sorry you are here. Take care please!


Me BS mid-late 30s
Him WS knocking on 40 (lovemywife4ever)
blended family with lots of kiddos
together 5 years, married 8/13
D day 12/1/13
WH ONS had been 4/12
Getting ME back and moving to HAPPY - whatever that means
I want out!

Posts: 1066 | Registered: Dec 2013
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

TWM,

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

I do have a couple of thoughts for you.

First, there is no excuse for what you wife did. She does need to get to her "whys". And yes, this is going to be painful for you, no matter how it plays out. With that said, it seems like alcohol may have been one of the contributing factors here. She was falling down drunk. So, maybe she has a problem with alcohol abuse? It certainly was a problem that night.

Second, I have a few encouraging words that may or not be helpful. For context, I'd like to share a little bit of my story with you. Long story short, my ex wayward wife (XWW) had an emotional affair (EA) and a physical affair (PA) with her boss. Oddly, before I discovered the A, I imagined them on a business trip having a drunken ONS. I imagined almost exactly what just happened to you, including the next day remorse. One difference though, was that I imagined I never actually find out about it. In other words, my wife chose to never tell me. I then imagined our life continuing and our living happily ever after. I was able to imagine all of that and not be devastated or hurt by it, because I knew from my past experience that drunken ONS's can happen and most time mean nothing. The key is, what happens after the drunken ONS.

The encouraging part of that story for you is that your wife feels horrible about it. She is remorseful. She isn't blaming you for her actions. Yes, there are reasons it happened (beyond the alcohol) which she and you need to get to and understand, but it was a one-time, alcohol induced bad choice. If corrected, in my mind, it is totally forgivable (although no less painful, perhaps).

She may need to quit drinking. She may even need to change jobs. You and she can talk about these things. Personally, I would not want to know anything about the actual sex. Again, this is my opinion, based on personality, and I understand others are the exact opposite. I just know that I would be haunted by the images forever. You can choose to see it for what it was....very drunken, blathering quick, bad, non-intimate sex followed by passing out.

I would encourage you to try and take a deep breath and try to ratchet down your thinking regarding any major changes to your marriage situation right now. I just don't see the need for thinking about anything too dramatic happening, like moving,,selling things, separation, divorce, etc.

Instead, Assuming she is fully-vested and eager participating, I would try to concentrate on the things that do need to be addressed - her drinking, the conflict you and she have about whether or not to have children, her fully understanding why this happened and why it won't happen again, finding ways to rebuild and strengthen your love and of course -- your healing from this emotionally painful episode.

After reading thousands of posts on this terrific web site ( as a part of my healing process), I can tell you that 90% of the time I think the people involved should just get divorced. I think just the opposite in your situation. I see hope for even stronger love and a greater bond to develop, and that is my post-Christmas wish for you. Good luck to you, my friend.

NMAI


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

...and as if that post wasn't long enough, I have more thing.

As deena04 said above, your wife's ONS is 100% on her. Why she did it has 0% to do with you. This is an important point. You can talk about your marriage in a shared responsibility way, but need to talk snout the ONS in a sole responsibility way.

Best to you.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

I'm not sure the 180 is for you. The 180 is to detach from an unremorceful WW. In your case, communication and if you decide to reconcile, trust building are more important.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

Hi,

Am now going to call an amnesty on saying thanks, because if I do it after every time someone is amazing to me, we're not going to get anywhere... though having said that, particular thanks to Nomistakeaboutit - the last para reduced me to tears (again) both times I read it.

Right, progress. We got up this morning and spoke again properly. Turns out she spent most of the night doing the same as me - not sleeping and Googling this situation (one day all marriages will be like this).

She was more honest this time and basically said that though the reason why she ended up staying over at the hotel was because everyone else was doing it and work were paying, that the reason she ended up staying up late drinking must have been because she wanted something like this to happen. She also admitted that she had sex because she wanted to and that once she started, she didn't think about anything else (i.e. me, implications, etc). We didn't go into details, and she said she could remember bits of it.

She said she read online that what she is doing is apparently well recognisd behaviour (she referred to herself as a cliche). I don't know if this is true as haven't Googled that side of it, but said that once women get everything they want (we're married, have relatively recently bought a bigger 4 bedroom house, are trying for a baby and booked an expensive long haul holiday - all things she has pushed for, though I wouldn't want to say that I have resisted any, bar perhaps the children thing at first, though we were still trying for a year), they then get restless and want more. And she said that this was how she has been feeling, and used the phrase 'self-destructive'. I don't think the fact that some people want to be marrried and still have sex with other people should be a shock to anyone, let alone on here. I also don't think that this is by any means a female attitude (!), though I pointed out that on two occasions when I've been drunk and women have made a move on me, I started waving my wedding ring around and talking about my wife.

Anyway, her attitude was 100% remorse. She apologised, told me she loved me repeatedly and that she wanted to stay together; cried so much she was making a fairly inhuman noise at one point; agreed to tests, not drinking any more etc; and referred to herself as an 'evil person' and a 'slut'. This was quite hard, as my reaction normally would be to hug her, but I refused and didn't reciprocate on the love part (or the insults for that matter).

I asked if she would tell me if the other guy contacts her. Apparently she was pretty upset in the morning and he texted 'are you okay?" to her work phone last night as he doesn't have her personal number. She said she deleted it immediately and will swing it so they don't have to work together again (they both work in multiple locations).

Anyway, we get to a standstill and I told her that there was nothing left to do apart from wait for the dust to settle, then I can make a decision, then we can see about councilling, etc. She was planning to go to a friend's, get some space and talk it out with her - though her original hope was that she'd stay and go to the cinema or something and try to move on together (I told her this was not going to happen!). I told her I wasn't going to kick her out (she has nowhere to go once work starts again on Monday as our friends are a distance away), but that if she did stay, all I could see was us sitting in different rooms not speaking to each other (as it's all been said for now). After about two attempts and more tears, she finally left to go to her friend's and is coming back tomorrow night so we can talk again before we both go back to work. When the door shut, the only way to describe it as that my heart broke in two and I cried for a couple of minutes. She immediately texted 'I love you' to both my phones, which I was tempted to reply to but ignored.

I was pretty f*cking low here, but this was a bit of a turning point, as I realised that I couldn't sit here on my own for over 24 hours, so I ate some soup, went for a walk around the park, and rang a mate to arrange to go and meet for a pint and to watch the football in a couple of hours. I managed to conduct this conversation without letting anything on, so I'm pretty sure I can hold it all together later if I have to. Once I'd 'achieved' all this, I texted my wife 'I know, don't worry about me in the meantime, I'm not going to do anything stupid x'. I didn't know whether to, but she was concerned about me being alone, so I thought the least I could do was reassure her that she won't be coming home to a corpse. She texted back more apologies, I love yous, etc.

None of this is ideal (obviously!), but I feel that I wouldn't have gone for a walk or arranged to meet friends if she hadn't gone. Anyway, I'm going to go for a swim, I feel (comparatively) better now and we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Thanks again all.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 9:08 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

I like your last sentence about seeing what tomorrow brings..The exercise that you are getting will probably have soothing effects.. Exercise outside in the fresh air is how I get rid of my anger or anxiety..

I am sure that you know children are possible if you R and years down the line you two decide that you want a family..Foster parents or adoption..

But with that said, protect yourself and any children legally from the get go..

Trust is the issue here...You may regain enough trust and love in your wife to be able to function in an authentic and fulfilling marriage with her someday..

But, after a deep betrayal like this, the injured person tends to not trust ANYODY 100% ever again..He or she verifies whether or not he /she can trust other people by watching their actions..

Counseling is good individually, but a word of caution..Not every counselor is effective..You may have to shop around for a counselor who has a philosophy that resonates with your situation..

Sending you strength...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:37 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1245 | Registered: Nov 2011
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

That does sound like progress. Everything you're experiencing (uncertainty, hyper emotions, lack of wanting physical closeness right away, etc.) is completely normal.

As I'm sure you can understand, some of your healing (and her's) will only happen after the passage of time and the observation of actions. It's harder to do, but try to pay attention to what she does even more than what she says.

The fact that she is 100% remorseful is the best news in all of it and offers the most hope, IMO.

You seem to have good instincts on how to handle this situation (huge props to you for finding this website so quickly, as an example) and how to care for yourself (walk, swimming, pint with mate - all perfect). Good luck with everything. You're doing amazingly well.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, January 11th (Saturday)

I'm envious. It took my wife 2 years to get the point your WW is now. We still have some trust issues but we are on the road to true recovery. This is a long process. Give yourself time to grieve the loss of your old marriage.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

Bear in mind if your wife can get you to quickly forgive her and buy into her intense remorse, then you are more likely to resume trying to get her pregnant. That might be worrying her more than anything; given she very much wants to start a family and she is 38. Time is running out and she needs to get you back in the bedroom ASAP. Sorry to be so cynical, but most people are motivated by self-interest as well as genuine guilt.

She wanted sex so she decided to go ahead and screw the guy. What about the next time she is this type of situation?
How can she ask you to be faithful for the rest of the marriage when she cheats on a whim? Where's the trust now?


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
neverwillhapn2me
Member
Member # 41912
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

TheWrongerMan,

My DD was Dec,22,2013. I have had two very short talks with my WW. Still living together, we have 2 DS 7 months and 5 years old.

Believe me as much as I want to have our happy family I just don't see myself every truly be able to be happy in this relationship EVER again.

With that being said im still not making and rash decisions until I know I have better control over my emotions.

I did the same as you and still am doing the same as you. Asking questions to my self suchs as, What about the house we own, custody, CS,SS. I have even look at apartments, condos etc...

Currently looking up Lawyers and reviews. im all over the place. Looking up success stories people that have R. I am extremely thankful that you DO NOT have children to consider.

What im trying to say is whatever your feeling, however you are handling it, believe me there is someone on this site reacting very similar.

I would like to say I cried whiling reading your post about your talk with your wife. I wish my WW showed remorse like that. I long for it SOO much. I believe without the children and financial security I provide she would be gone.

The reason our talks were so short, her response to my questions were " Why do you even want to talk about this" when I ask for how many times she slept with OM she said I don't know I pushed for an answer she shrugged her shoulders and said Maybe 3 times.

Im hopeful for you and your WW, good luck keep posting it is extremely helpful to speak with others in the same boat as you.


The saddest thing about betrayal is it never comes from your enemies


If your searching for that one person that will change your life, look in the mirror.


Posts: 142 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Ontario
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

Hey there. I''m glad that you found us for support. I''m so sorry that you had the reason to come find us.

I''m walking out the door but I had a couple of things that I wanted to share with you. Your wife definitely needs to stop drinking and I would suggest that she goes to AA if she has ANY problem with staying off of booze. If it''s a social thing, then she might be able to go cold turkey. If its an addiction, then she will need their support.

Next, she needs to write a NC (no contact) letter to her OM. This letter should be short and to the point, and she should run it by you before it is sent. Something to the effect of I made a horrible decision on Friday night to sleep with you. The thought of us having sex fills me with disgust. I love my husband and I am fully committed to him. I do not want to speak to you again and I do not want you to contact me again. Sleeping with you was the worse choice I have ever made in my life.

The last thing, is that my FWH had a ONS too. Unfortunately it was also linked to years of him using pornography, and then a slide into corresponding with cam girls, let me rip you off for money by promising sex girls, adult dating sites, and ultimately a ONS from one of those sites. He did not confess I caught him. He lied to me several times. Despite that, at 19 months, we are doing very well. So, given that your WW confessed immediately and is exhibiting signs of remorse, it is likely that if you want to, you can forge a new marriage. Personally, I would start MC with your wife. Often we suggest that you wait until the WS is ready to commit, but being as she seems to be ready right now, I would suggest it. We started MC within a week of DDay, and I can say that it was a HUGE help for us.

Best of luck!


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4915 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
sidney2718
New Member
Member # 41190
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

There has been good advice given here. I have just a few things to add. For one thing, you are going to go through emotional stages. You may well have periods of extreme anger as well as bouts of tears. Do not make any long term decisions until the emotional roller coaster evens out a bit.

Another thing: as I suspect you've discovered, you are relatively lucky. Your wife confessed and told you most of what you wanted to know. And she's expressed remorse. I think you might want to do two things though. One is to have her answer all the questions you have NOW (which I think you've already done) and then let her know that you may want more details in the future.

The other thing is to try to find some of the postings on SI that express what an affair does to the betrayed spouse. I'm sure some here have links to it. Sadly, I do not or I'd post them here. I advocate this because sometimes the wayward spouse does not fully grasp what the betrayed spouse goes through. The reason for this is that, in your case, she KNOWS that it was simply a physical affair with no emotional meaning. But you don't know that, at least not in your gut. The material I'm talking about will make it clear to her.

I also second the alcohol idea. From what you've written I gather that she has a serious problem when she drinks too much and you know you have to keep your alcohol consumption under control. Give up alcohol -- she because she has to, you because she'll feel much better about it if she knows your making a sacrifice as well.

All in all, I think that this may well have a good end. I certainly hope so. No, neither of you will get your old innocence back, but you can still come out of this with a strong marriage. It will take work and there will be hills and valleys, but it can be done.


Posts: 41 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Northeast US
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

Okay, thanks all again (again).

Went out and got fairly drunk (but not wasted) last night and it was less distracting than I thought it would be. I kind of think that this is the closest I'm ever going to feel to being schizophrenic (I mean that in the loosest sense - I'm not actually worried I'm going psycho!).

The best way to describe it is that I read an autobiography by a professional cricketer once, who said the technique he used for batting for really long periods of time was to only concentrate and focus when the bowler was about to throw the ball at him, and then straight after he had hit it, he would then switch off for 30 seconds or however long he had until he had to concentrate again.

Last night, when I was talking to my mates, I was able to be engaged, laugh, make jokes, etc, but the second I wasn't talking/listening, my mind, instead of conserving mental energy like the above, was instantly doing the exact opposite and turning over all of this. And then as soon as we started chatting again I was, by and large, straight back into being 'normal'. This was to the point that when I was walking down the road three steps behind my mate, I had to suppress myself from full on breaking into tears (this happened at sporadic other times too, like when he was at the bar, etc). I was obviously doing a pretty good job as no-one asked if I was okay/pointed out I was being weird, etc.

Plus, even weirder, I also started developing small physical 'ticks' (this has never happened to me before) where, when something built up inside of me, the only choice I had was to do something physical to 'release' it. I think it was because I had no outlet for my emotions - i.e. crying - so it was the 'best' I could do under the circumstances. Plus I was drunk. Happily, now I'm at home and sober again, even though I'm alone, I'm not doing this any more, so don't think it will be a long-term problem, or even tomorrow when I'm at work.

My wife texted me about six times, starting off with I love you, I'm sorry, etc, and moving into, please let me know you're okay. I ignored them all (I thought texting her yesterday to tell her not to worry was borderline too nice of me as it was), though the closest I got to responding was when she texted 'I hope you're okay' I was very tempted to reply 'I hope you're really where you say you are', though I knew deep down that I know where she is and I was just being spiteful, so I left it. She rang me about five times too and I just cut the call off every time without answering. One welcome side-effect of drinking was that I slept for about six hours (better than the three the previous night), though I'm not stupid enough to think this is a viable long-term solution!

She will be home in seven hours and I suppose the question is what to do next. Am prepared to share the above and hear what she's been talking about, etc, but don't think the core situation has changed (easiest best described as 'we both love each other but we both hate her'!). My general instinct though, thanks in part to the positives here, is to carry on as we are (don't kick her out, sleep in separate rooms, talk calmly when we can) and see how our feelings pan out.

The biggest question, I suppose, is how long do I keep 'punishing' her for? As someone said before, am not sure all this 180 stuff strictly applies to us, though I obviously see the value in not caving in immediately (plus I couldn't do it if I wanted to anyway as I'm too p1ssed off). However, we obviously need to move forward and I have to commit to marriage counselling/trying, etc at some point if we're going to try reconciling.

I suppose this is just a representation of the larger internal conflict that we all go through, veering from 'I want a divorce now' to 'I was partly to blame and I should forgive'. The other issue I have is whether to drop this sh1tstorm on a mutual friend. Currently I have no one to vent to apart from this place and my wife.

The one thing I do know now though is that I do still love my wife, and I feel, at this point in time anyway and after reading all of the above, much less like I want to get divorced than I did 36 hours ago.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 6:39 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

TWM,

...a couple or thoughts.


I suppose this is just a representation of the smaller internal conflict that we all go through, veering from 'I want a divorce now' to 'I was partly to blame and I should forgive'. The other issue I have is whether to drop this sh1tstorm on a mutual friend. Currently I have no one to vent to apart from this place and my wife.


You do understand that you were not partly to blame for her ONS, right? If not, what do you think your part was in the choices she made?

I would definitely lean on a friend right now and tell him what has happened. Don't expect much in the way of good advice, but I think it would be healthy for you and not a burden for a good, true friend.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

TWM - don't worry too much about "ticks" and weird schizo-seeming thought patterns. It's normal when you're in shock...you are going to be ok.

I sincerely hope your WW is truly remorseful - and this is a post that talks about what that looks like:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&HL=25460

I do have a couple of questions...
The sex in the hallway - this happened the day before?
It makes me wonder a bit...you know, if she kind of had him on her mind and worked herself up.
The other thing was about the morning after pill.
Was she already in possession of them, using them after you had sex (since you weren't on board with having babies)?
I'd want to know more about the nature of the relationship, was it truly a ONS? Or, had there been some time of flirting previously (work colleague)?
I wish you peace and strength.


Posts: 6644 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

You do understand that you were not partly to blame for her ONS, right?

Hi, yes, this was a simplified comment based on the millions of thoughts I've had over the past few days and I was referring to our marriage being worse than it was, not the fact that she XXXXed someone else. I totally regard the one night stand as her fault and, to a lesser extent, his (whoever he is). As others have said, I resent the fact that he came along, XXXXed my wife and then XXXXed off, and now I'm sat here dealing with it.

Apart from the child thing and the basic fact that we've been together for so long, I think the biggest problem is that I have a more realistic idea of how a relationship is likely to be after 17 years. We had an amazing run for over 15 years (I'd say that's better than most people manage) and it's natural for there to be some downs too (and this patch, pre-one night stand, has been pretty much our first one, though still not that big a one, or so I thought). She seems to have a rom-com enforced attitude that everything should be perfect all the time. I'm not saying that complacency is a good idea, but you do have to be realistic.

On the fact that she said she had recently been feeling 'self-destructive', she said that she thought she had been looking for something for a while to shake up our marriage. This was followed by a sarcastic comment to herself along the lines of 'Yeah, and this was a great way to try our marriage'.

She also says she wishes she could turn back time. That would save us now (presuming she didn't go back and decide to XXXX him again!), but it does change the fact that deep down she might just be a really XXXXing horrible person (that's what she claims to think about herself at the moment anyway).

Apologies for not acknowledging and replying too all responses. They are much appreciated but we seem to be working to a bit of a time difference, so I'm receiving them in batches.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 7:47 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

The sex in the hallway - this happened the day before? It makes me wonder a bit...you know, if she kind of had him on her mind and worked herself up.
Day before, yes. She told me that on the way home she had been think about the fact that she hadn't been making an effort generally recently and needed to start, and that she had enjoyed it (which seemed to be the case at the time). Also, am not sure an hour long commute home would be long enough to sustain that feeling, even for a man!

The other thing was about the morning after pill. Was she already in possession of them, using them after you had sex (since you weren't on board with having babies)?
No, I didn't even ask about this, but she relayed in passing when talking about how dreadful the whole of the next days that she had to leave her course at one point to go and get one.

I'd want to know more about the nature of the relationship, was it truly a ONS? Or, had there been some time of flirting previously (work colleague)?
I didn't want to get into this as so many issues flying already, but she basically fessed up that she's been having thoughts about another guy at work who she gets on well with but who has a girlfriend, and she knew that the way she was feeling was ridiculous. He was there that night but left a bit earlier (this was part of her admitting that she subconciously went back to the hotel vaguely hoping something might happen). This guy left and then the thing happened with second guy. She was completely honest about feelings with the first guy, and said about the second guy that she doesn't even like him particularly. To make it even more ridiculous, apparently these two guys are good friends and are going on holiday together soon.
The feelings for first man thing was relayed to me during her rant before Christmas, but after we discussed it I kind of shrugged it off and gave her credit that she wouldn't do anything stupid (I'm not really the jealous type and I'm not stupid enough to think that people aren't natually going to find other people attractive). Her friend she has been speaking with about this said this sounds like she was laying a path here and basically asking for my permission. I'm not sure what this really means, but I wish she had actually asked if that was what she was doing, as I might have made the 'no' that I thought was obvious a bit more explicit!
I guess, as she knows that I already know that she was having feelings for someone at work, there is the possibility that she's lying here to make the one night stand seem less bad and totally emotionless. To be honest, this didn't even occur to me until I typed all of this, I obviously need to check this tonight. Suppose I need to remember that I now need to be more suspicious about everything and not believe everything she says any more. Not really how I want to/am used to running a relationship.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

Wrong. If what your doing is "punishing", you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your approach. Its a dangerous mindset that can feel good the short turn but may burn your bridges later when the dust settles. I'm not saying she shouldn't feel the consequences of her bad decision, but turning the knife out of anger is counter productive.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, January 12th (Sunday)


Sorry, poor choice of words on my part, I guess I meant how log should we stay in limbo for? I suppose only I'll know the answer to that. Was also in reaction to posters on here saying 'don't brush it off straight away or it will happen again/they will leave you'.

Re: I sincerely hope your WW is truly remorseful - and this is a post that talks about what that looks like

My wife has done all six of the things listed (some repeatedly, more times than I can count):

A statement of gratitude.
An expression of your love.
An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.
An admission that you caused their pain.
An expression of your sense of shame.
A promise that it will never happen again


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

That's really a good sign!
Take your time - you need time to recover. Let her continue 'doing the work', I'm very happy to hear this.
She needs time too - to plumb the deeper things that were going on in her mind in regards to planning this, or anticipating it.
I hope she 'goes there', as hard as it is to do so - in order not to damage things further by lies of omission or minimizing.

Consider too - if you can feel safe doing so - the Wayward Forums, telling her about this site. They are amazing in there too, and they would definitely be willing to help her flush out her reasons...
Just a thought.

If she is truly remorseful, and does the work - please believe me - you CAN R.
Give yourself time brother.


Posts: 6644 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

Wrong. If what your doing is "punishing", you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your approach. Its a dangerous mindset that can feel good the short turn but may burn your bridges later when the dust settles. I'm not saying she shouldn't feel the consequences of her bad decision, but turning the knife out of anger is counter productive.

His wife was having sex with someone else 48 hours ago. It's a bit early to worry about being counter productive or anything else at this stage, imo.

There hasn't been enough time for the smoke to clear, let alone worry about D or R, or anything else. At 2 days out, everyone turns the knife out of anger.

OP is two days out from the event itself - but being critical is a bit premature, again imo.


TheWrongedMan, you may want to get away for a couple of days - or ask her to stay elsewhere - just to clear your head. Trying to digest all that has happened with your wife around you trying to explain and apologize may be overwhelming. Make sure you have some down time to absorb all of this before making any decisions at all.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

The other thing was about the morning after pill. Was she already in possession of them, using them after you had sex (since you weren't on board with having babies)?

I saw this and had the same question. Are you sure that she left and went to get one?


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

Painfulpast. I understand. But those of use who reconcile usually later regret giving into the anger and some of the rage enduced actions/statements. I'm just trying to say learn from our ( my) mistakes.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

I saw this and had the same question. Are you sure that she left and went to get one?

All I know is what she told me (I hadn't even considered that she didn't until now, are we seriously now raising the scenario of me raising someone else's child?!).

Re anger, not an issue. I haven't even shouted at her once, let alone threatened, broken anything, etc. Have been kind of like I am on this forum, I suppose.

Re getting away, she is away now and has been since yesterday morning. Is coming back tonight to discuss (as I wanted to do this before I have to go back to work and act 'normal' in front of people and before she goes back to her workplace, though apparently she is back in her normal office away from these people tomorrow).

Discussion okay, said she wasn't looking forward to going through it. Bit concerned here and asked if this was because there were more revelations to come. She said no, of course not, mainly because she is embarrassed and ashamed, especially that she has done such a terrible thing and still doesn't really know why, and that she is still trying to understand that herself (also said she is 'hiding'). Didn't get into details but there was mention of emotions and alcohol, as opposed to my thought that the marriage was in a much worse state than I had realised before this happened (though there is still obviously much to discuss here too).

That's kind of it - thanks all again.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 10:18 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
brkn_heartd
Member
Member # 30396
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

I am glad you found us, but sorry you need to be here. You have had some great advice, and there is a tremendous amount of support.

I am going to add a couple of points. First, your responses are not about "punishing" her, it is about protecting yourself and healing. If you feel comfortable with something (i.e. sleeping together, holding hands, etc) do it. If you do not feel comfortable don't do it. It is about you coping and dealing with the aftermath. In all honesty it took me over a year to decide what I wanted to do. The great thing is you do not have to decide anything right now. You have all the time YOU need to make a decision.

You are fortunately as it sounds like she immediately told you what happened and has been open about it. I fought for months to get information. For a betrayed spouse that in itself is a gift. It doesn't make it hurt any less, but makes the fighting for details easier.

You mentioned in your first posts that she seemed unhappy months ago and discussed marriage counseling (MC). It sounds like she was struggling a while back ago, and may have contributed to her actions. Remember, this is about HER actions, not you. Skan had some great advice about MC, however, I would add that you both might want to consider individual counseling (IC) also. That will help her to understand her behaviors, but will also help you work out if this is something that you can live with and if so, how do you heal. My IC helped me tremendously, but I didn't start until well after a year of the A. I regret that, I needed it sooner but just didn't realize it.

In reading your story, I don't think the 180 is necessarily what either of you need right now. It is to help with the unremorseful wayward partner to help the betrayed partner cope and heal. However, there are parts of the 180 that are appropriate at times, which sounds like you are implementing. Which is not engaging when you are not ready to engage. By ignoring texts and phone calls because you are not ready to discuss.

One other thought, you might start considering what is your list of dealbreakers and subsequent consequences. For example, if she breaks no contact what happens? If he breaks no contact, she should immediately report it to you (she can't help what he does), but what is the consequence if she doesn't tell you. Is her "arranging" not to work with him enough? (My WS told his supervisor what happened, and I spoke with her to confirm he had told her. His work was then reallocated to avoid encountering her. But I was able to confirm they were working with him to avoid contact.)Or does she need to find another job. When deciding these rules and consequences, you need to be prepared to follow through with the consequences. I, unfortunately had not though everything through back then (learned my lessons after joining SI) and when he crossed lines, I was left trying to figure out what to do next. If I had figured out my plan previously, it would have been easier to implement.

Take care of yourself right now. It is very easy to fester in the pain and not be able eat and drink. Self hypnosis helped me with sleeping (my IC helped with that too!).


Me-51 BS
Him 58-WS
Married 31 yrs, together 34
Affair Aug-Dec 09
official D-12/14/09
broke NC 1/31/10
second D 3/19/10

Posts: 1642 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Northwesten US
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

Sorry Wronged, if your not angry now, you will be. Its called the rollercoaster. Today your numb and calm, or sad. But like switch being thrown,the anger will hit. And it hits liked a freight train. The timing is different for everyone.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 10:22 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

Her reasoning is so wooly and illogical; you still need to know why she pulled off all of her clothes and did this very intimate thing with another man. Also sounds as if she slept with him. Showered with him?

Its very important that she gathers her thoughts and tells you just why she committed this betrayal. Its easy to brush this incident under the carpet under the general heeding of being drunk. I think its a lot more complex than that, and that reconciliation should be at a snails pace if she won't explain her reasoning. Its not punishment its due caution; you don't want repeat cheating down the road.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

Painfulpast. I understand. But those of use who reconcile usually later regret giving into the anger and some of the rage enduced actions/statements. I'm just trying to say learn from our ( my) mistakes.

I've reconciled, and I haven't lost a minute's sleep over anything said in the first few days post DDay. Honestly, any WS that would dream of holding any of that against a person, imo, isn't remorseful in the slightest, and isn't worth the effort.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

Wronged, how are you doing? Anything new?


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
PhoenixReborn
Member
Member # 22135
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

For your own protection I would recommend:
- refrain from any sex until the possibility she got pregnant to OM is passed.

- treat any positive pregnancy result within 2 months of the ONS as being certainly the OM baby and treated accordingly.

Just a thought - if she did in fact buy a morning after pill, there would have to be a record or receipt somewhere to prove she did in fact get it?
She should be able to show you documentation to prove this.

Good luck.


Me - XBF 40 (Fiance)
Her - XWF (who cares)
# Always trust your Gut - I didn't and am now regretting it. #
-Only give up when you won't regret giving up.-

Posts: 1118 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Australia
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 13th (Monday)

Wait, so she had feelings for guy no.1 but went with guy no.2 the one she didn't like, and you know this to be true how? Because she told you?

Posts: 71 | Registered: Jun 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, January 13th (Monday)

My spidey senses are tingling. Something is off here. You said the only thing you know about Om is he is "divorced,one child." In another post you say,"OM whoever he is." Am I to understand you don't have his name?

This is what Im thinking...OM IS the guy she has/had feelings for. The one with the girlfriend. She told you he was divorced so you wouldn't tell his girlfriend,and so she could continue contact with OM. I think you're only being given half of the truth. Something is off here.

Do you have his name? Has she written a NC email to OM..and you sent it,so you know it went out..unaltered?


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7674 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
homefront
New Member
Member # 40688
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, January 13th (Monday)

In addition to what Phoenix said above:

- treat any positive pregnancy result within 2 months of the ONS as being certainly the OM baby and treated accordingly.

I may be being paranoid, but I would be concerned that the spontaneous hall sex (which you said was not like her) was orchestrated to ensure that, knowing she was going out of town perhaps planning (even in a casual or joking way in her head) to sleep with OM/guy she liked, she would have a specific instance of sex with you to cite in case she did get pregnant.

I hope I am just being way out in left field, but my head had alarm bells over the "coincidence" of the sex and her ONS.


BS 37 (Family Law Attorney...yes, really)
WH 40
DDay Nov 7, 2012 after WH had A while deployed, terrible boundaries due to CSA.

So far, so good.


Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, January 13th (Monday)

Hello,

Apols for not updating, since last post she came back, we talked for about 4.5 hours and then had to go to bed as it was 1am, then I got up and went to work. Don't want to do this on work computer/phone so have not been here until now.

Have asked about which person it was and says again that it was his mate. Haven't asked her to put anything in writing as I thought this could be potential 'ammunition' later. Also, she is already concerned that she has to appear professional on the odd occasion that she may bump into him.

Apparently he e-mailed her today 'How was your weekend?' She rang him back and told him what we'd agreed - 'I have told my husband about what happened, and really serious things are happening here. I can't see you again.' I was a bit XXXXed off here, as I told her I wanted her to say 'I DON'T WANT to see you again'.

Also transpires that after their conference thing the day after it happened, he asked her if she wanted to go for a coffee, and she said 'I can't' and walked off. I said that this was not firm enough - making it sound like she can't as opposed to doesn't want to, and this is why he subsequently e-mailed her. She is convinced he is showing interest because he's concerned as he was upset the morning after. I told her she's being naive and that the 'How was your weekend?' e-mail is obviously him initiating contact. She agreed. She hasn't heard back since.

Also, I'm really XXXXed off that in the morning she didn't bolt like most people would, but that she hung around and that when she was v upset (re what she done), she let him hug her. She keeps swearing she doesn't have any feelings/attraction for him, but admitted that at the time she liked the sex with someone different and also this attention. If he contacts her again she is going to tell me, and I don't really think that without alcohol/after this she is going to end up XXXXing him in a stationery cupboard or something absurd like that.

She has booked in to see a councillor tomorrow, however, she has done nothing about booking in for STD tests, which I hit the roof about and told her showed she wasn't taking this all seriously (along with the slow dripfeed of info that I'm getting from her, like not telling me he asked her for coffee). She had been saying previously that she's still in shock and is in denial, and I told her that she is and that by 'protecting' me from the unpleasant parts, and not doing stuff she's said she will, she's showing that and she's not taking it seriously enough. She keeps focusing on trying to get me counselling, which I think is her diverting and not facing the truth. She has admitted that when she's alone it's better, as she doesn't have to face me/what she has done.

Despite all the talking, nothing else has really changed. We talked a lot last night, though whereas I focused on what she had done, she had prepared a load of stuff about our relationship over the years and the ups and downs. We talked all that through last night calmly, though she admitted she was trying to steer away from talking about what she had done. I keep steering it there, as I think she needs to get to the point where she truly accepts how wrong what she did was (although she is remorseful, etc).

Tonight's conversation was more heated, though still not really an argument. I still haven't really hit angry (I feel angrier when I'm not with her for some reason). I seem to be crying less, though today at work was a challenge at times. Things are amicable. We hugged at the end of our conversation a minute ago, though I've told her that the main bedroom is mine and she has to knock before she comes in, and she just offered me some dinner. Maybe I should be harsher, but it seems weird being so formal with someone you have been with for 17 years.

I can't believe I'm typing all this stuff. It seems ridiculous. I don't know why I'm so calm. Last night I tried to think about what she'd done to make myself angrier as I was being too nice, but I just felt like I was too tired to do it.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 3:30 PM, January 13th (Monday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, January 13th (Monday)

It sounds like you're handling things really well. I can see why her phrasing ("can't " versus "don't want to") bothered you.
You must be a very patient man to have calmly listened to her lost of ups and downs in your relationship! I'm not sure Imwoukd have been much in the mood for that, so close to DDay. The length of time you talked sounds encouraging, though.

Hang tough.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 1:56 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Am getting abut more impatient with her now. She is becoming more bolshy and adhering to the signs of someone who is in denial, etc, though she has read up on the 'stages' she will go through and has acknowledged that she using coping strategies, etc.

Also, she keeps throwing stuff out there, like 'maybe one of us should move out temporarily so we can get some space', 'I'm going to go to my parents' this weekend and tell them', and 'you should get away and see your (also her best) friends and talk it through with them'.

This was vaguely idle chat from her, but this morning I told her that I thought all of the above was a good idea, firstly because I think this is all talk from her and she doesn't actually mean it, and secondly because I think she might be right. Surprise, surprise, she then backpedalled on pretty much of all of it and started crying.

To her credit, since this discussion, she has agreed to read this:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&HL=25460

Which I have found incredibly helpful (you might too, thanks to the person who posted it earlier in this thread), and she's also, unasked by me, texted a friend of hers who was on the receiving end of a full on terrible affair that my wife ironically coached her though (!). She is going to talk to her to try and get my perspective and has said that maybe I should speak to her too, which I really appreciated.

She is going for councilling at lunch time and the focus will be 'why did I do this?' She has also agreed to tell her about the way her behaviour is setting me back and discussing why it's upsetting me and what she's doing wrong.

Current plan (from me) is to stay in the house together until Friday, then one or both of us will get away. Meet up Sunday to regroup and then she moves out for a week to stay with a friend with certain conditions re drinking, who she speaks to, etc, and maybe we'll meet up on an evening or two for dinner and a chat or so on.

I am off to work now so can't chat for about nine hours, but if anyone has anything they can leave here in the meantime for me to get back to, I would appreciate it. All of your support is really helping me and I hope you are receiving similar.

One last thing, I have been recommended that I keep this site secret, but elsewhere that I recommend the wayward forum to her. My first instinct was secrecy, but she keeps saying I need to speak to people as she doesn't know I have this outlet. She also wants to speak to people who have done what she has done, so should I tell her about the wayward site?

Got to go, will be late for work. Thanks!


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
PhoenixReborn
Member
Member # 22135
Default  Posted: 3:29 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Keep strong.

I ask this because as you can see you cannot trust only her words at the moment & is important:

Has she proven to you that she really did purchase/obtain a morning after pill?
Can she produce a receipt or transaction record ?
If not then is she actively working on getting proof?

Without proof of some kind it would be wise to assume no morning after pill was taken despite her words, just like when people 'swear' they used condoms, only to find out later that they didn't etc..
Cover yourself, best to prepare for the worst than be blindsided again.

Good luck.


Me - XBF 40 (Fiance)
Her - XWF (who cares)
# Always trust your Gut - I didn't and am now regretting it. #
-Only give up when you won't regret giving up.-

Posts: 1118 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Australia
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 5:31 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Ok. I'll just give you my opinions, at this point, and you can factor them in, or not.

Processing all of this has got to be so hard for both of you. It's the trying to drink water from a firehouse idea. ...just so much to process...and then try to compartmentalise the entire thing for nine hours, so you can work. It makes my head spin, just thinking about it.

I have to say that both of you are handling this really well ( relatively speaking). Maybe that's a bit like saying, "I have to say you did an excellent job on your walk through hell. Your steps were confident and you walked right on through vey nicely."

You really are doing the best possible, though, it seems to me. You, personally, are managing to keep your wits about you, somehow. She seems to truly be remorseful and in fairness she actually IS doing a lot (e.g. Stopping contact with the other guy (albeit not worded the way you would have liked, Counseling, talking with her friend who has been betrayed, addressing her drinking, talking with you about everything for long periods, etc.

I only have a few more minutes before as have to get my kids up for school, but I do have a few thoughts I'll try to get typed out.

The words she used when telling the ONS guy are a bit of a concern to me. Having been in a generally similar situation, I know the words that you wanted her to say were probably "dear ONS guy, yesterday, I made the worst choice of my life. You need to know that what I now realize so clearly just how wrong my choice was. It was a,drunken impulse and selfish indulgence, but I cannot dismiss that I chose to do it. I love my H so much and now. I have hurt him so much. I have hurt myself, too. You need to know all of this with 100% clarity. We cannot have any more contact, etc"

TWM, notice that even in my "ideal" Wording above, I still used the words "we cannot" versus "I don't want to". To me, given the context of the first part of the "no ore contact" notification, it is more appropriate to say "cannot". So, I don't know all of the words she said to him, but that is something that would be important to me.

Also, although I've never seen anyone advise this on this web site (therefore, it might not be a good idea) you could always consider making a phone call to this guy and communicating plainly, "you've participated in something that has hurt me deeply. You need to know I am not happy with you, but I will stand back if you honor the no more contact. I am not angry when I say this next thing to you. I am calm. If I ever hear again from my wife that you have contacted her, whether it is to go to coffee, go to lunch, take a walk, or anything else you think you might like to do my wife, there will be immediate consequences for you." (Note: Those consequences could be notifying work, etc., and shouldn't be physical, since you don't want to end up in jail. ...but he doesn't need to know that.)

Also, at some point, you probably need to notify his wife or GF, if he has one, but that is an entirely different conversation.

Regarding the week apart, I'm concerned that she was the one that suggested this. Very gently here, I would view this as a bit of a yellow flag. I don't know the context, so it's possible she was just suggesting it because she thought it might be a gift to you...what you needed....and not something she wanted.

Whether or not to point her toward SI, I don't know. My inclination is yes. You would give up your safe place,,but she would gain so much, if she chose to. Also, you would still,have the option of sending personal messages (a feature on this web site) to people for opinions. Those could remiss fully private.

In terms of whether she took the morning after pill, or not, I've got to assume that she is telling the truth about this. Surely she's not interested in getting pregnant by another man. You could always wait a few weeks and then have her do a early pregnancy test (over the counter product, at home) so you could both know for sure.

In terms of your not being angry, yet, I wouldn't worry about that at all. Dude, you're probably still in shock. Anger is not the first kind of defense, denial is. You're handling everything as well as anyone could. Hang tough.

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 5:37 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 6:04 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Wrong you are doing great, as much any of this could be called great.

Your idea for some distance is good. During that time, it might work out best f neither of you contact the other. Some true distance would be good for clarity. Booth for you and for her.

I would call the OM. Its hard to keep your emotions in check when you have to deal directly with them and any threat, real or imagines by them, could be spun out of proportion. A short, sharp no contact letter or email which doesn't include any ego kibbles is best. Something like...

What we did was disgusting. Your disgusting for taking advantage of the situation I stupidly put myself in. Never speak to or contact me again in any way ever again.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 6:20 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Since your wife isn't forthcoming about the reason for her supposedly ONS, it leaves you wondering why.

Some relevant observations:
1] She didn't ask him to pull out or use a condom. Pregnancy or disease is a real issue here; why didn't she protect you from those possibilities? Also she knew she would be 'contaminated' with another mans bodily fluids for quite a few days and she was going to bring them home to you. Very romantic. Maybe she did it to hurt you. Also the question others have raised about the morning after pill, and her immediate access to it.

2] She has not been exactly truthful; bit of TT'ing and lies by omission; yet she told you how much she enjoyed the sex with the OM. She could have just said it was OK, why did she think it was necessary to tell you about her enjoyment. That must really hurt. May be the hurt was intentional.

3] You had a good marriage and she knows her own character and morality. She knew in advance that if she ever cheated she would need to confess to you. She is that type of person. Yet she had sex with the OM knowing she would need to tell you the next day and it would cause you intense pain. Yet she went ahead and gave herself to him. Again, an intention to hurt?

I suspect underneath it all there is great resentment, leading to justification for her 'dalliance'..
From a woman's perspective she will be devastated about her failure to get pregnant; she may think its now now not going to happen due to her biologically advanced age. Is it possible she blames you for this? Maybe you delayed attempting to conceive, or have not made a great effort, [all from her perspective]?

Just trying to explain her actions and possible reasons for her adultery. Why she readily confessed; not necessarily out of guilt however. Take my comments as you will. Just trying to propose fresh viewpoints about why she did this horrible betrayal, and caused you so much pain; from a background of a very good marriage.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
MeanBean
New Member
Member # 36375
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)

The "Best" lies have a bit of truth in it to keep you from revealing the complete truth ie Trickle Truth. Her actions are premeditated.She wasn't happy with the marriage and that built up to her cheating on you.

As long as she works at that job there can be no reconciliation and its waste of time sending a no contact letter as long as she works at the same job as the OM.

Her hesitance to firmly tell the OM to go away is also a concern. I'm sure he has went out of his way to visit her at work to find out if "everything is ok".


Me BH:36
Ex W:33
Married 7 years/Dated 3 years
DDay1:October 12 2011
DDay2:November 3 2011

Posts: 36 | Registered: Aug 2012
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)


Hi,

The the whole morning after pill thing, I am not as fixated as everyone else is. If this was the case, she had all day to decide to tell me that they didn't have full sex or that they used a condom. I am fully onboard, however, that at least subconsciously somewhere in her drunken mind this was all related to wanting to get pregnant. Also, if by some small chance she is pregnant, she will be out the door and she can get whatever samples that are required for the paternity test from him.

Re confronting the other man, though by the law of averages I am probably bigger and stronger than him, I'm only going to get to this if he tries again.

She raised distance, said she honestly can't believe I'm still allowing her in the house, and also a few friends have offered to put her up. I think she's also playing a bit of a game here, trying to push me into realising I want her to stay, hence her backpedaling when I went along with it. I do think it's a good idea though, and without meeting up, as I think she needs to think more about what she's done and I need to see how well I can cope alone (may need it in the future). I think the two main reasons I didn't do it before were that I was too XXXXed to be alone all the time, and at that point she had nowhere else to go (but now she does), plus also obviously her repentance and our relative civility.

Re her liking the sex, this came out as a part of me pushing her about why. She was saying it was because she was drunk and it meant nothing, whereas I was pushing her to admit the real reason was because she wanted to, so that came out with some pushing from me, as I wanted to get to the truth of it.

Re intention to hurt, she acknowledges that she is being self-destructive, and her friend told her she thinks that she did this to get a reaction and because she knows that I would never leave her (this wasn't said maliciously, but honestly about what her friend's theory was). This is starting to feel like a red rag to a bull!

Re resenting me for not getting her pregnant - yes 100%. She has a massive issue with the fact that I can't climax inside her (I never have through penetration with anyone bar once with my wife, though this guy did and very quickly allegedly) and we have to use some sort of device, so you don't have to be Freud to work out what she was getting out of this at the time (I have told her this).

I left for work feeling that there was a good chance of reconciliation and feeling positive that we were making progress, then spent the rest of it almost determined that I've had enough and this is the end. I think the angry stage is coming. Will see how her session went and if she is still being bolshy. My aim is still to create some space between us with her leaving for a bit, and then I think this will resolve which of the two paths we take (neither is ideal, but I think I am starting to feel more positive, for now anyway, because I can see a way forward).

This may sound resentful, but I have realised that if do split, I will leave with my self-respect, a fair amount of money and all of our friends.

I know that despite what she has done, and when not in this drunken state, my wife is a good, well raised and educated person, with a moral compass and a conscience, and that she loves me, so this is lessening the natural anxiety that if we split, she will prosper and I won't.

She's back now so off for a chat (apparently she read the link I sent her which is encouraging). Thanks for listening.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Re resenting me for not getting her pregnant - yes 100%. She has a massive issue with the fact that I can't climax inside her (I never have through penetration with anyone bar once with my wife, though this guy did and very quickly allegedly) and we have to use some sort of device, so you don't have to be Freud to work out what she was getting out of this at the time (I have told her this).

This^^^ is a bit troubling.

Betrayal is the worst thing ever. There is no excuse. NONE. 100% on her and her poor choices.

I am speaking from my own experience. No judgement, just an observation~

There are a lot of women who can orgasm many different ways. But one of the biggest thrills for me is when the man orgasms or we can climax together. I am not sure why this is so but a life without that part of sex would not be so great, IMHO.

It makes me kinda mad that this is my reality! I am an alpha female but I have to acquiesce to him having the 'trump' in the sexual relations dept. Maybe its some sort of Ying-Yang thing?

Is there some way that you can seek medical advice regarding that issue? If you can show your WW that you care about her resentment and make an attempt to help her to help you that might be a great way to start R...If you would like to R...?

I know I am going to be shot out of the water...let me have it.

But this comment stood out to me. I just wanted to share my experience to let you see it from another point of view.

Thanks for reading my post.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Hi,

No problem at all, appreciate your perspective.

There are a lot of women who can orgasm many different ways. But one of the biggest thrills for me is when the man orgasms or we can climax together. I am not sure why this is so but a life without that part of sex would not be so great, IMHO.

This was never really an issue for a long time - and, without wanting to be disgusting, the non-climaxing aspect def had advantages for her at first. However, although I recognise that it's not the most common way, I never thought of it as a problem, though my wife said relatively recently that she was bothered by it and used words like 'not normal' about it, which I said was unfair - to stigmatise someone in this way would appear to be a good way of giving them a complex (after this week, I'm probably going to end up impotent at this rate anyway, so I suppose it won't be an issue any more!). It's not like I'm doing this on purpose. The other day I said it would be like me asking her to p1ss out of her ears. I simply can't do it (something, if I had to guess, that is physical and not psychological).

Anyway, onto tonight and we have discussed my wife's counselling session and she said that exactly what you said about sharing above has been an important issue for years, though the problem was that my wife never pushed about it until relatively recently as she hadn't realised how unhappy it was making her, and then she complained properly when it became an issue re babies. So my wife apparently didn't realise how frustrated she is by all this, and this incident is the result of that. So it looks like nail on head from you there. However, I'm not a complete tyrant, as my wife has developed a weird thing in recent years that, when she's about to climax, she stops herself at the last moment. I, or she, have no idea why this is, especially as she used to do it all the time. Anyway, enough of those details, unless you have more female insight on this.

Re medical advice, yes, I had already agreed to get it checked out before this all happened, though I'm obviously feeling less inclined to go through with it now.

///

Tonight's chat, wife said that I wasn't going to like what the counsellor has said. I braced myself, then was told that she was unfulfilled re above but hadn't realised how much (see above) and that that was why she did what she did. I then unbraced myself and told my wife that she'd paid £70 for someone to tell her what we already knew (is this the basis of counselling?). She also said that we had lapsed into a friends relationship, which we agreed was complete b0ll0cks.

We then had a chat, which was fairly amicable, though I was a bit nasty about what she'd done and I think she's starting to get it. I talked about her moving out temporarily, etc, and she eventually told me she doesn't want to and cried. She thinks maybe we should spend weekends apart and then weekdays together. I kind of think we need to be apart, and I said that she could come to terms with things and I could think about how I felt about being alone. I think psychologically I am starting to steel myself for this possibility. However, basically same situation as normal - lots of amicable discussion (bar a few nasty words from me), tears (all her's this time) and then a feeling that we both want to hug each other but me refusing, which all ends in an overall feeling of melancholy, pointlessness and ridiculousness about this whole stupid situation, which doesn't seem to have any right answer for either of us.

I think the only way to push this forward is to spend some time apart and see how we feel. We obviously still love each other and get on, but I feel like I'm being a massive sucker if I hug her when she's upset. It feels like the two of them have cooked up a massive sh1t sandwich and now I have to eat it. I also wonder if she is laying it on a bit thick to try and get my sympathy.

However, I suppose we're getting towards a time when we need to decide whether to go for it and get couples counselling. Also, I still haven't told anyone and she is encouraging me to tell close friends this weekend as she's worried about me. I think this would do me good as I can't spend another weekend while she's away with friends pretending to be normal, or the alternative, two days alone, but I feel like telling them may be a deal-breaker as, as liberal and understanding as they are, I personally feel like I might feel like a failure if they all know and then they see me take her back (as much as they all love her as well).

She read my article about the stages I'm feeling and said it helped, so we're going to read that through together in a bit. Then we're going to read another one together about the ones she is going through.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

I am really firmly on your side with regards to your wife's betrayal. I can't believe this latest statement:
she was unfulfilled re above but hadn't realised how much (see above) and that that was why she did what she did.

That really is ridiculous. There are plenty of ways of getting around difficulties such as the ones you are experiencing. To some women your difficulty would be a decided asset!

To state that she got a pip up her ass about a sex life that wasn't totally perfect, so she went out and did a cruel, disrespectful, insulting, humiliating betrayal of your marriage, by fu**ing another man. Then bringing his sperm home to you, [as much as 70% of semen can be retained by a woman after sex].
It just seems to me that she wanted to punish you for your 'limitations' and her apparently not conceiving as a consequence..

The tragedy is that you may have as long as 50 years left in your marriage and this stain will remain for every minute that remains. She can never again be your soulmate of a faithful wife; she has shown that she can be mean and petty and cannot be trusted to be a honorable partner. What she did was terminally stupid, and the transgression will haunt her for the rest of her days.

I started off at the beginning of your post convinced that reconciliation was very likely. I really wonder if that is now what she deserves. Too many insults.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

I'm a little more optimistic. This still looks like a situation which can result in reconciliation if that's the path you choose.

Stick to the distance plan. Take some time to search for clarity.

Be strong.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

That was what the councillor said anyway, apparently women are 'cups' and they need to be 'filled'. I think it goes without saying that the councillor was a woman.

Thanks for your comments, I agree - only problem is that my wife agrees too (generally). Is now very tearful and apologetic again, only really gets bolshy when I push her on the events of the night. The one thing that makes me think she is genuine is that she is actively encouraging me to tell three of my best friends (who I suggested).

I thought this might scare her, as though they are ultimately three of my best friends (all male and are originally 'my' friends from before I met her, but they are all extremely close friends of hers too). This will obviously make her look awful in front of them, but she is genuinely encouraging me to go ahead and tell them as she thinks it will be good for me and she is worried that I haven't discussed this with anyone.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Thanks Twitchy, we're definitely getting on, it seems like my pride is the main obstacle. That and the fact that I'm not totally convinced by the counsillor's view that we might well come out of this with a better than ever sex life. I for one am feeling less inclined to mutilate my pen1s as some kind of sacrificial lamb (can't believe I've been discussing my pen1s with strangers on the internet - it's been a strange week).


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
MediumRare
Member
Member # 35128
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

That was what the councillor said anyway, apparently women are 'cups' and they need to be 'filled'.

So I guess when a cup is half-empty, going to go jump on another man's dick is a wonderful solution!

Well good, then men are a pint of ale and when down to the half, go get blown by some bar hussy? Perfect logic on this "so-called" counselor.

Sorry for your pain WrongedMan. You are certainly taking it much better than I would.. in fact, that "brace yourself" statement from counselor, the only thing going through my head after hearing that was:


BS (ME): 44
WS(HER): 42
9 years
OM#1- 20-something loser, stole bunch of my things after she had sex with him in our bed (no condoms, STDs)
OM#2- 24 year old, unemployed loser, lives with mom & dad
DDay 1/2012
NC 3/20/2012
SGASDay 4/1/2012

Posts: 721 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: California
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Thanks for that - genuinely made me laugh and I certainly need one of those! The gallows humour on here is really admirable actually - I was trying not be jokey at first as I thought people might think I'm making it all up or something, but now I don't care.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

"You are certainly taking it much better than I would.."

I know, I keep worrying I'm being too nice, but she keeps being genuinely remorseful and saying she loves me and doesn't try and defend her actions, so there's not really much to argue about.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Sent you a PM.
Hope it helps!

Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Not sure it the best idea to go around telling three of your male friends. Presuming the account will be spread around from them as a source, to a large number of other guys, your wife could find herself getting unwanted, [well,hopefully], attention from men who now are aware she has committed adultery. From their perspective she might be worth hitting on, in the hope she will repeat her cheating behavior.

Might be better to keep it to yourself.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Nitrobob
Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

I also had erectile issues that were a factor in my wife's affairs, at least according to her. Not withstanding whether this relationship survives, you should look up a sex therapist with a phd and address your issue. My guess is that with a little work this problem can be solved. It is psychological and not physiological unless maintaining enough of a erection for adequate friction etc is the issue. Either way, there are great treatments.

Sorry about your pain. Those of us whose wives didn't volunteer always suspect there is one more guy we just weren't smart enough to discover in our investigation. You are right that you probably are getting the truth to work with. Many of us have to work with partial information.


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell — 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 133 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Don't you worry one iota about what anyone else thinks, even the good folks here. You just worry about making the best decisions you can based on the info you have (which is much more than we do, obviously) and the man you are (who we can only guess at). This a trial by fire. Come out the other side knowing you did everything you needed to do to get you the place you decide to go, with or without her.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

Yes, lean on a close friend to talk to about this,,if you want to. If you don't, then don't. Don't worry that she's worried about you. Sorry, but she's proven very recently that she doesn't always have your best interest at heart. I suggest telling anyone you feel might be helpful to you regarding the whole mess, but be forewarned. I had one person who was interested enough to really listen and care. The rest were just useless, really. People do not know how to respond unless they have been through it.

The therapist your wife talked with doesn't seem very experienced in matters of infidelity. Your wife really needs to look for someone else who specializes in, or at least is very experienced with, matters of infidelity. Unfortunately, bad advice from therapists does more damage than not going at all.

Switching gears.....The idea do taking a week apart sounds reasonable, but do you really think that being without her for a week will provide any kind of meaningful trial run for you to see how you would do alone? I don't see that. Six months without any contact (which I'm not suggesting, btw!) might, but not a week.

You know what makes no sense? A woman wants desperately to have a child. So, what does she do? Get fertility treatments? Insist that the two of you see respective doctors? Try everything possible to pull you closer? No. She goes out and has a drunken ONS and then tells you the next day. That action only moves her farther from what she wants the most. It makes me wonder how much the alcohol factored into the equation. It just sounds to me like she was really,,really drunk and just selfishly wanted to get laid....nothing deeper than that. She didn't give a shit about you (in her drunken state of being overly horny) and it want until the sober light or morning that she felt guilty. Has she acted out inappropriately when she was really drunk at another time? Does she have a drinking problem that might be at the core of what she did?


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)

To add, what we bring to the party is experience. Some relevent, some not. Take what you need and leave the rest.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 1:51 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)


She goes out and has a drunken ONS and then tells you the next day. That action only moves her farther from what she wants the most. It makes me wonder how much the alcohol factored into the equation. It just sounds to me like she was really,,really drunk and just selfishly wanted to get laid....nothing deeper than that.[/quote

Hi, wife came in for a hug and a chat this morning, and I asked her what the main reason was, and she 100% said that the above was it - all the other stuff is background and relevant, but she agrees that she was selfish and this was what happened first and foremost.

However, she says that she now realises how repressed she has been behaving and what she wants, and wants to use this as a catalyst to have a much more fulfilling sex life. I said to her that thing about men being at their peak at 17 and women at 37, and she said yes, exactly. She said she feels like something's been 'uncorked' in her.

None of this was angry and I said that obviously I had had those feelings too (about fantasising about sex elsewhere idly) but the diff is on the odd chance that I could and I was steaming drunk too at the time, I didn't do anything. She then talked about how maybe I should have some sort of one-off 'revenge sex' and that that would put us back on an equal footing and we use all this as a 'reset button' and move on. In a weird way, I kind of think that this might be the only way of me moving on and think of us as being equal again (though I'm certainly not going to rush out and do anything like that now!).

Also, neither of us are alcoholics, we're what Brits called 'binge-drinkers'. We only drink about once or twice a week, but when we do we do it largely to get drunk. The diff is that even when I'm hammered I largely stay the same person, whereas my wife can get angry, etc.

Advantages I see now - she is clearly being honest with me and I don't think she's going to do this stuff again. She didn't have to tell me.

Gotta go - work! Thoughts appreciated and so would more be. I will be back on in nine hours. Thanks!


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Jesu
Member
Member # 36422
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Not sure why nobody else has mentioned this, but you should get access to her phone, phone bills, online accounts like Facebook, all email accounts and messaging programs. If she has her own computer, access to that as well. It's better if you can get access without her knowing, so you can check and do some research to find anything she's not telling you. Otherwise just demand passwords and access etc as a part of possible R. She should be an open book, no secrets.

If I were you I would contact OM and tell him to stay away and have no more contact with your wife. Tell him if he contacts her again you'll tell his work and go pay him a visit in person.

Stay strong, it seems that you are handling this quite well, and have received some good advice from here so far.


Me: BSO 39
Her: WSO 29
Together: 9 years
Married?: No
Children?: No
OM: A friend of a friend
DD#1: June 18th 2012
Many more DD after TT
PA#1: 1 week in Nov/Dec 2010, which led to a long distance EA
R: ?

Posts: 608 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Oz
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 4:23 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Yes, we call it binge-drinking over here in the Colonies, too. I'm very familiar with it. So, when you and she are having your talks do either or both of you drink? Is she committed to stopping her binge-drinking? It will be a big change in her life, but the binge-drinking did "help" her cross over to the dark side once. That's the kind of help your future M can do without.

On another note, what did you mean that she has been stopping herself just short or orgasming? She just has you stop, when she gets close to orgasm? She doesn't want to have the orgasm? Is that right? If so, what do you make of that? Doesn't that fly in the face of sexual peak and wanting a better sex life, blah, blah.

Speaking of blah, blah, does it bother you that the grand conclusion she draws about all of this is that she wants a more fulfilling sex life? It just leaves me feeling.........that's it?!.! Maybe that is it and maybe that will fix everything, but it just seems to be all about her and a bit shallow, considering that your entire future together is threatened. Also, does she realize what will happen to her all important and newly improved sex life if she has a child? She'll be happy to be getting sleep, never mind sex.

Revenge affair. ....looks good on paper. There are many problems with it. The two affairs would not be equal. The biggest difference is that, particularly in your situation where she is almost suggesting it, you would be doing something that would help her. It would help her feel better in some ways. Did her ONS help you feel better in any way? No. It won't work. It's trying to bargain the problem away and that just won't work.

Good luck with what I expect will be your nightly chat.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 5:22 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)

I whole heartedly agree that a revenge affair is a very bad idea. It will just add a second layer of pain and resentment to you situation.

And yes, having access to her phone and computer is good. Her A wasn't in or didn't start that was, but they sure end up there about 110% of the time. Try to manage it covertly, so she doesn't know your watching, with key loggers and spy ware, otherwise is she was contacting him that was she'll just stop. In your case I'd set that up of a finite period, say 6 month. Otherwise it cannot become an addiction.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

That was what the councillor said anyway, apparently women are 'cups' and they need to be 'filled'. I think it goes without saying that the councillor was a woman.

...the fact that I'm not totally convinced by the counsillor's view that we might well come out of this with a better than ever sex life. I for one am feeling less inclined to mutilate my pen1s as some kind of sacrificial lamb

At the risk of becoming lurid I would like to expand this convo.

A. Why would you have to "mutilate my pen1s" in order to 'fix' your issue?

B. I guess that a woman would have some sort of insight as to why a man orgasming 'in' her would seem different, or better. But I don't want this to become a sexist part of this thread. RE: the counselor.

C. I have always referred to my self and my love life with Mr. Happy as being his 'Vessel'. I love that part! (now I'm sharing some TMI, LOL!)

Not withstanding whether this relationship survives, you should look up a sex therapist with a phd and address your issue. My guess is that with a little work this problem can be solved.

Okay, Nitrobob is guessing...but why not.

So why not look into this issue?

BTW, do this for you, not your WW.

She does not count right now. She fucked up big time. She could have easily said something...

Just curious...Had she complained in the past?? Was this a too sore a subject to discuss without hurt feelings?

I don't want to irritate you in anyway. I know that your feelings are all over the place.

I hate infidelity in any form. So don't think I am taking sides, male or female. I really do care about you and your situation and sincerely would like you to explore all avenues to make your self a happy healthy man.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

If one wants to get his or her needs met, one must present whatever issue to his/her loved one in a compassionate tactful manner and in a way that makes sense..

The needs should be reasonable ones and possible to fill..

The fulfillment of these needs shouldn't be taken for granted..

In a strong marriage the partners feel blessed to have one another and their M

If your WW was telling you to have a revenge A this isn't good..She will think that you two were on an even playing field, and she would feel excused from delving into why she had an A..

The way in which my WH presented his needs for our sex life to change did nothing but distance me from him..His personality in general is one of negativity..

WH was very tactless and focused on himself in presenting his sexual needs..... During the times that my WH worked outside the home, he usually started work later than me and he was always home much earlier than I..Yet he did nothing extra for me in daily life to help me recharge or preserve energy for him.So basically I got tired of listening to him bitch and moan...

I would have to admit his A was my get out free card..I was already getting to the point of feeling fed up with my WH and the M before I found out about his A's..

People who have A's to shock their spouses or partners into meeting their needs are nothing but demanding brats..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 2:24 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1245 | Registered: Nov 2011
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Okay, finally got fairly angry today. Went to work and my wife called me tearfully from work. First thought the other guy had done something, but no she was having a tough time going back to work, said it had all hit and I love you blah. Said she'd do anything to make it work, etc, even said she'd cook me dinner, which worried me for a bit, as that's almost more out of character for her than XXXX-ing a near stranger in a hotel. I said that (regarding this morning's chat) if she could pick up an inexpensive prostitute on the way home that should sort it all out. This made her laugh then sob (new thing, when I make her laugh it reminds her of how it was before and she starts crying). So anyway, great, now she's leaning on me for support (!!!!!!) like it was before all this happened.

Then, sat at my desk, not really able to work, what happens is that this dripfeed of 'excuses' starts to wrankle with me. As said before, when I see her I have felt less angry, but not tonight. Chatted for two hours but the 'highlight' was me shouting at her that she wants to reconcile and for me to do this, that and the other to make things better, but that before this happened, when I cooked for her, always gave her surprise gifts and things and looked after her emotionally, that was me doing my best, and if that wasn't good enough then maybe she should XXXX off to this other bloke. Have also taken, I think, understandable umbrage to that fact that this bloke has apparently helped her to see the light and I now have to try and change my physiology to emulate his talents. Plus took great lengths to explain that these conditions were a far cry from 'I'll do anything'.

Also, she said she alway leads the relationship (having baby, etc) and I said I KNOW, THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE ALWAYS ASKING FOR MORE BUT I NEVER ASK FOR ANYTHING FROM YOU. She cried and conceded that I have a point, the fact that when she said recently that she was fat (apparently she's put on weight) I said that she looked perfect to me (and I meant it). Whereas for her, nothing is ever enough. Said she wanted baby, okay lets do it. Said she wanted to use device, okay let's do it. But what she's said post affair was that I wasn't committing because I never filled it up and helped her with it. Not only is there always an extra thing, but YOU NEVER SAID AND YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE NOT NOW.

Amicable again now and she's gone to get some dinner. I think we're going around in circles, as is my mind since this happened. My internal monologue constantly sounds like the prose from a bad book that should have been written by someone else.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

To cover the points.

No, we don't drink when we talk (both us us have barely drunk since). Also, we don't really drink in the week (even a glass of wine) unless the odd occasion when we go to a gig or whatever.

Stopping orgasming. I have no idea. Occasionally says over years, what do you think it's like not have done it for ages and I say, well why do you stop when you're about to? She says, I don't know. Then I give up as she doesn't want to discuss. Work that one out.

About the great sex then have a child, good point and I made this to her. Not much to say back. Does rather raise the idea that she needs to get back into bed to get her pregnant asap.

Revenge affair, not even discussed (bar my prostitute joke). Where do you even start with that anyway? Sending pics of my now notorious pen1s to strangers on the internet (I'm not sure how it works)? Also, it feels like the first step on the road to becoming swingers. Also, as I said before, if I leave this, I want to do it with my self-respect intact and the moral high ground (petty I know). Not sure this will help with that.

Mutilate my pen1s - not a 100% serious remark, but referring to the fact that it had been inferred before that maybe some skin would need to be chopped off.

Had she complained in the past? Was this a too sore a subject to discuss without hurt feelings? Only complained relatively recently and I had semi-agreed to go and see someone. No, not sore subject to discuss, as think I'm showing here.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 3:18 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Also, she said she alway leads the relationship (having baby, etc) and I said I KNOW, THAT''S BECAUSE YOU''RE ALWAYS ASKING FOR MORE BUT I NEVER ASK FOR ANYTHING FROM YOU.
Did you not ask because you did not have anything to ask for but you did not feel you could ask?

Chatted for two hours but the ''highlight'' was me shouting at her that she wants to reconcile and for me to do this, that and the other to make things better
So she expects you to basically win her back? She wants to reconcile but only if you fix what''s wrong. >>>ZZZTTTT<<<< Wrong answer
She needs to address her own issues. If what you were doing before wasn''t good enough then why should you believe anything new that you do will make any difference now? And that is completely setting aside the elephant in the room of how freakin'' unbelievable it is for her to not realize she needs to prove herself and not the other way around.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3999 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing a remorseful WS here. I see a blubbering hot mess trying to use her tears to manipulate you and convince you that you are the one responsible for this mess, not her.


Walk away from anything or anyone who takes away your joy. Life is too short to put up with fools.

Posts: 13806 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

I 100% see your points, though this is against the backdrop of constant apologies and reassurance etc, which is v confusing. I said about her not being properly repentant and she said that she admits that she doesn't think she really fully realises what she has done to me yet, that it comes in flashes but she is using coping strategies, etc, to block it out. Also, when she speaks to friends/that counsellor (all female, if that's relevant), although no one has told her that what she did was right and quite a few, including her very best friend of over 20 years, broke into tears, their instinct as friends has been to tell her that what she did was out of character and support/comfort her, which she said may be skewing her viewpoint to an extent.

Anyway, she came back here later, in a mess, properly sobbing and apolgising, etc, yet again (blah). Me not mad, then we sat down and she offered to run through the stages I'm going through on that link that someone posted earlier, which she said she has read loads of times. Said she recognised how I had been experiencing most of these, but most discussion from her was focused on revenge affair idea again.

Said this was the only way that she would feel better ever again. Repeated her 'idea' from earlier (I didn't have time to put on here) that we have a month apart while she tries to come to terms with what she's done/who she is now and I do what I want. I said how would that make you feel? And she said that it didn't matter as she'd done it herself now so was the least I deserved (said that obviously she wouldn't do anything at the time). Although I don't think this is any move from her to distance us from each other, etc, I do think this is easy for her to say now, as only this morning she was saying that she wants to cancel our plan for her to go away for the weekend and stay here, so is she really going to go through with anything so huge? I'm still not seriously considering this as viable.

Anyway, another big day today. I'm going to go and see a doctor and try and get referred for free counselling/see if I need medication on the NHS (UK National Health Service) and she has booked in to have her STD tests done tonight. I understand this can be quite unpleasant, so may give her another shock. She has taken Friday off and is going to try and go for another counselling session, and wants me to go with her asap. Has said that if I do agree to go for couples counselling, this doesn't mean that she thinks that I have committed to reconciling but she thinks it will help. Will see what today brings and see I suppose, though her behaviour is consisent, so suppose I need to try and work out if I can get over this and move forward.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 12:33 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Revenge affair - Very bad not-good idea. It will not work. It will make everything worse.

Month apart - Also very bad not-good idea. Not if you want to R.

Let me put it in this context. Whenever members of SI advise someone to detach we usually advise living as separately as possible. Separate homes ideally, but separate rooms if necessary. Now considering that is how we (collectively) advise someone on how to detach why would you and your WW think for one second that living apart will promote repairing of the emotional connection?


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3999 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Okay, thanks Brandon, that all makes sense. Also, the general consensus I have heard is that if you're communicating constantly and civilly (which we are) then it's good to keep that up. We are luckily two people in a four bed house, so we have space, and we are currently sleeping in two diff rooms, though sometimes she comes in here and sits on the bed and chats and we hug and so on.

Another morning of her saying all the right things about her fault, no excuses, etc, and we agreed that we have had a huge brain dump about previous situation that will be useful later, and has been now to an extent, but that I am stewing on some of the mitigating circumstances while we're apart and this is leading to anger and her being defensive (at times) when we are.

Agreement now is that we will park all that and come back to it later if we need to repair marriage (presumably in couples councelling if we do that). We have kind of done this one our own so far, so now is the time to do this in a more structured way based on whatever steps are advised to take in this situation (i.e. drawing up definite rules she has to stick to other than the obvious that have been agreed so far, such as no contact and STD tests). She 100% agreed with all of this.

Thanks again for listening, I really appreciate it.


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 1:39 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

No worries brother. Hope you find some peace.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3999 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
2yrsblind
Member
Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 1:49 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

The most important thing right now is 100% truth. Any progress that is made will be offset by future TT. The whole 2 steps forward one back thing.

Also, I agree, NO RA. While she feels NOW that it will put you on equal footing, it won't. It won't change your hurt. What it does is again only for her benefit, gives her the "we both did it" defense when she is put in an uncomfortable situation.


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 3:40 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Okay, one last thing I forgot to say about parking all that: is agreed that setting rules for her is first step and her following; then discussing what she did and why; then how our relationship was. The stuff she has been throwing around - sex and baby wise comes - at the very end of the process. She agreed to all of that, though we'll see if she sticks to it I suppose.

Anyway, am going to get off here now, am working from home today so nothing to stop me (bar the fact I'm busy with work!), but have promised myself not to come on here until eight hours time when I finish as too long is prob counter-productive in my case. Any comments left here appreciated as usual, will pick up later if anything comes.

Thanks again!

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 3:41 AM, January 16th (Thursday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Story for you. About a week after I discovered my xWW's affair, she and I were sitting in bed one night. She looked unusually tense. I asked her what was going on, and she said, "I'm trying to figure out how to fix this." End of story.

Your wife's desire for you to have a RA and a month apart reminds me of that story. She would like to find a way to "fix" the situation. Unfortunately, there is no fixing a wound like this - only healing.

You're doing incredibly well with all of this. Keep up,your excellent discipline to focus on work during work hours. This is very, very healthy, as I'm sure you can see and already know.

Good luck.

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 8:34 AM, January 16th (Thursday)]


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:47 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Your wife is showing remorse but is it guilt? Right now if your wife want to get pregnant you are the only game in town. If you parted, then divorced, she has to meet another suitable guy, get to know him, then marry. Total 2 - 3 years? By which time pregnancy will be much more difficult. Probably not going to happen.

So to get the baby she wants she has to get you back in bed, having regular sex ASAP. Every month that goes by is another month lost out of her fertility bank. If it takes 6 months to reconcile thats six fertile periods gone. From a female perspective I would reckon that her 'guilt' is really about her need to get pregnant and not necessarily about the ONS. Expect seduction time very soon; all aimed at fertilization.

If your WW is obsessed with getting pregnant and thats her reason for all the tears, sobbing and remorse; then what happens to your reassurance that she will never do this again? She enjoyed her ONS but is she necessarily horrified at what she has done? Can you guarantee she won't cheat again?

Regaining trust is not as simple as listening to her promises.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Thank Nomistake, though I've popped in quickly now (albeit in my lunch hour, so I think I can get away with it!). Revenge sex seems like the second step on a slippery slope to me, though this time it would be me taking a misstep and not my wife, so am steering clear of lowering myself to that level (for want of a better phrase).

OK - all valid considerations and ones I have. Though I'm sure she's ultra keen to get back in the saddle, and that her (without wanting to sound sexist) hormones (again, for want of a better word), are at least part of this, I don't think she's quite that baby obsessed. If she was at the pretending-she's-taking-the-pill-but-secretly-not level of baby-mania, then her best bet would have been not to confess then I would have carried on as normal, but this has blown that out of the water (which, if anything, shows more sign of guilt I suppose). And that's especially as, because of this, that's all off the table now for at least as long as it takes her to get her STD checks, etc.

Anyway, as I pointed out when she said she still wanted a baby, she might already have one on the way, and as this other guy also has one from his previous marriage, that would make a second for weekends if she goes back over there. Not my finest moment, but hard to resist shooting in this situation when you're presented with an open goal like that.

As for would she do it again: I honestly believe she never would have without being blind drunk.

Right logging out now, now back until tonight (I promise!).

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 7:26 AM, January 16th (Thursday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Have P'med you!


Me & Hubby = aged 46
Together 16 years
Married 9 years
He had 1 yr EA in chat room then 6mths EA phone/texting with same woman.
Cyber sexed with many OW in chat room for at least 1 year.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

I don't see one ounce of remorse in your wife - not one. I see regret, but remorse? Nope. She keeps twisting the conversation away from the A. She keeps listing 'stages' as if it's clinical and you just have to go through them. She is offering for you to have sex with someone else, as if to 'even the score'. She is doing everything EXCEPT owning what she did, and digging into why she did it. She is the definition of regretful but not remorseful, IMO.

The next time you are discussing the situation, and she decides to make it about 'marital issues' or the things she's been unhappy about for years, just get up and walk away. If she asks why you are leaving, tell her that you are there to discuss her A and not to run through all of her problems. Maybe she does have some real concerns, but now is not the time to focus on her problems, and she knows it. She's trying to redirect to get out of the hot seat. It's wrong, and the more she gets away with it, the more she thinks it's ok to do. It isn't, at all.

These 'steps' she thinks she sees in you - all of them? They are stages you go through over time, and that time isn't a week. She thinks this will end in a very short time obviously, and she's just waiting it out. Why do you think she keeps checking these stages? Because she wants to know when you'll be done being angry.

No remorse = No reconciliation. She needs to 'own her shit' as we say. Until then, any conversation is a waste of time.

Good luck with her. She's kicking and screaming through this, and she's the center of attention, which is what a cheater wants. Leave her alone with her thoughts for a while. See where that gets her.

And if someone is to leave, it should be her. Why on earth do you need to leave because she slept with someone else?


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Great - Love Will Tear Us Apart by Joy Division just came on the radio. One of my favourite songs of all time but the lyrical content, for those who don't know, is about a marriage being ruined by infidelity. Ian Curtis, who wrote it and was having an affair he couldn't end, was dead by the time it came out so it was effectively his suicide note. Cheery! (Don't worry, this isn't a cry for help!)


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

I've been following you closely TWM. I'm pulling for you!! JD is one of my all time favorite bands. Huge influence on me musically.

Check out "Let Me Lie To You" by The Afghan Whigs. I may have to post the lyrics of that to one of my threads as I've adopted it as an anthem. LMLTY is a wayward man speaking to a betrayed woman. WIth various parts of my life I have seen the point of view from both.

Pulling for you TWM. Will be thinking about you while I'm NHS hopping on your side of the pond next week.

For what it's worth I think you've been playing it well. I do agree with most of the posts here and have some alarm bells.

But love...love will tear us apart. again.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2184 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

Yeah, sucks. there was a time I turned the radio off for 6 months and listed to books on tape for my commute.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1908 | Registered: Nov 2010
ascian
Member
Member # 40304
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

I don't know if it'll help in your case, but since your wife seems to have fixated on the "revenge affair will make us even" idea I'll pass along what I said to my wife when she proposed that kind of "solution."

Marriage is not a zero-sum game. Me hurting you won't make the hurt you did to me go away, it'll just add more hurt to the situation.


Me - BH 39
Her - FWW 36
D-Day: 8/13
Working on R

Posts: 301 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Midwest
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, January 16th (Thursday)

TWM,

I'm working right now, too, so what will probably turn out to be a benefit, I will be brief.

Three things:

1. Is someone remorseful?

This question comes up a lot on this web site. Many times, people are CLEARLY not remorseful, so it's easy to discern. Those people just don't care. In fact, sometimes they seem to be enjoying it a bit, which is REALLY disturbing.

I respect everyone's right to express their views/opinions on this site. It's part of what makes it so interesting and valuable. Everyone looks at it through their own prism. My opinion is that your wife does seem remorseful, but only you really know. Only you know her and her typical reactions, etc., etc. She is definitely exhibiting behaviors that are bothersome (RA suggestion, reaching for reasons that have to do with you, versus her, etc.), but it seems to me that it is probably human nature to do some of that…just to minimize the horror of what has just happened. I would Google remorse and read about it, though. I just Googled "How can you tell if a person is remorseful?". Here was part of the first response.


Remorse: is an emotional expression of personal regret felt by a person after he or she has committed an act which they deem to be shameful, hurtful, or violent. Remorse is closely allied to guilt and self-directed resentment. When a person regrets an earlier action or failure to act, it may be because of remorse or in response to various other consequences, including being punished for the act or omission

Guilt (emotion)is an emotion that occurs when a person believes that they have violated a moral standard.

SHAME: A painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior.

The second thing I wanted to focus your attention on is her drinking. You said this:

As for would she do it again: I honestly believe she never would have without being blind drunk.

If that is true, what has she resolved for herself about her binge drinking? If this is the reason it truly happened, then what does that mean about the future of binge drinking for her?

Finally, I think it is very healthy for you to be on this site as much as it is helpful for you. You are the best judge of how much time you should be interacting on this site. I'm just amazed at you and other people who are able to function so well at work, in the aftermath of a betrayal…that's what I was saying. I was not able to perform very well at my business in the immediate aftermath, to say it mildly, and I am still not functioning at 100%, two years later. Every situation is different, so there is no apples to apples comparison here, obviously, but at the root of it, we were both betrayed and hurt badly. I'm just saying that I admire how well you've handled yourself.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 2:24 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Right, it's Saturday morning and I haven't been on here since Thursday afternoon, and a lot has happened.

I went for a walk on Thursday lunchtime and came to a calm realisation that this isn't going to work. If it was merely me forgiving a one-off that she has fessed up to then maybe, but the rest of it?

Firstly, the sex. This idea that it is going to be better than ever isn't going to happen. She has told me she wants me to be able to climax inside her, which I couldn't physically do before. Now that I know this other guy did, can you imagine the scenario of us both trying to get me to do it in future? How psychologically XXXXed is that going to be for both of us?!

Secondly, I know she has a conscience and even if I can get over this, I know she will feel guilt, and can even forsee a scenario whereby I am up for sex in general and she is pushing me away/tensing up even worse than she was before.

And at the end of that, babies. All of the above has to be sorted before we can get to that. And I can foresee a scenario whereby, in order to get through the second point above, she could in theory have to go back on the pill before we can move to this stage. She's an emotional person and I can see her losing her sh1t at this stage.

Anyway, she comes home from work on Thurs and I decide to be Humphrey Bogart at the end of Casablanca and let her off scott-free, and basically say 'Our sex life is never going to work in time to have a child and that's never going to make you happy, so we should be grown up and call it quits now.' I don't know if I'm playing mindgames with her; it worries me a lot that I am but I don't know it, if that makes sense (my mind is something of a stranger right now), but I'm clear that the above all makes sense and that I don't think I am. I'm also aware that I'm blocking out the future, but that we both have to face this now and then I'll have to worry about that later.

We have an incredibly calm conversation which goes 'We both still love each other but this is not going to work. Let's get divorced.' She says she wishes she could flick a switch and want to have sex with me like she used to, but she can't (but then instantly says, 'But we had that spontaneous sex in the hallway last week at my instigation and it was good, so...' Figure that one out but I can't be bothered any more and don't pursue it).

This is all v calm and then she backtracks (she was a bit teary thoughout this, I wasn't) and says, 'I can't imagine not having you in my life, can we still be friends?' I say no, that's not going to work (ironically because we still love each other, not hate each other).

Vague reconcilliation talk goes on and we're both exhausted and we both fall asleep in the same bed we've been sitting on for the first time since this started (nothing sexual). We wake up at about 4am or 5am and talk some more, and I deep down want to say to her 'I've offered you a chance to say none of that matters, I'll do anything but you've rejected me again', but I know that if I do this, it means I was playing a game all along (if that makes sense).

Also, I was sitting on one extra caveat that I was scared to offer up, and I think once again that if I don't offer it up then I am actually playing mindgames. So I say it: 'If you can get over all that stuff for now and promise to move forward, I will commit to reconcilliation, we can try and start doing basic things like a married couple THIS WEEKEND (watching TV, going to cinema together, etc) and I will commit to couples counselling'. So I put that on the table and she doesn't go for it. I am obviously hurt but I don't show it as I don't want to be playing a game.

We wake later and I have to go to work (hilariously she has taken the cowardly approach and taken a day's holiday to see a friend and for STD tests, etc). Her original plan was then to go away again like last weekend and think things through, but I have told her previously that I would rather not spend whole weekends alone, and if she is to move out she should do it on weekdays and we spend weekends together (plus I have obviously made the above 'offer'). Anyway, I have to go to work, we have a petty row based on the fact that we're trying to say a lot in a short time as I have to rush to work and she keeps procrastinating, so my last words are 'My cards are on the table, let me know what you decide'.

On way to work, she texts me saying (quote) 'I love you and I am sorry we left on a bad note. Will be back early on Sunday, I'll let you know the time I get in. Please take care of yourself and we'll talk then. If you need to talk before then, please call me. xxx'

I am now XXXXing fuming. What she did before isn't even a consideration, neither are the above probs, but I basically can't believe she's running away and doing what she wants when I'm at my lowest ebb and I've told her I don't want to be alone right now, and offered to reconcile. Also, if she is like this now, how's she going be patient, etc, in a year's time?

Also, the night before she said to me that it's like we both want to end it, but we're both scared to and we're trying to get the other do it. I become convinced that this what she is doing.

She sends a few more texts saying 'I hope you're okay', and in the end I'm so angry, I think, XXXX it, I'm not taking any more of this' and call her to end it.

When I call her there's near silence for a few seconds and she sounds scared, then I basically list the above reasons and say I want a divorce. It's fair to say I'm pretty angry. I put the phone down a few times and then she calls back. But the general jist is that she says, 'Okay, I won't go', and I say, 'I want you stay because you want to, not because you feel you should'.

She also tries to say that I should take it as read that she wants to accept my idea (?!?!?!?!?!?!) but she's nipping away for the weekend so she can get some space in the meantime because it will be good for both of us. She also tells me I need to speak to someone about this and asks me to promise not to do anything stupid - all while she's on a train going halfway across the country away from me!

Throughout the afternoon, I'm bombarded with texts and missed calls and texts explaining that I'm ' the most important person' but she's going away. I basically say that her behaviour contradicts the idea that I'm the most important and I can't believe she's dictating terms, etc. She keeps texting me back ignoring my points and it angers me that I feel like I'm being reasonable but am being treated like I'm being unfair in some way. In the end, my phone keeps ringing so I turn it off and somehow do some work (with very loud, vaguely angry music on my headphones, which I find strangely calming. In fact, the only time I felt calm was after I'd told her to XXXX off).

On way home I switch phone on and more texts and missed calls come through. She is her on way to her friend's and says she will come back tomorrow instead as there are no trains back tonight. I text, 'don't bother, this is the final nail in the coffin, if you want to know why, read the above texts' (I'm being given a lift and am in back seat so can text but not ring her).

She finally texts: 'I feel sick to my stomach of everything I have done. I will never forgive myself for this for the rest of my life'. I think it's fair to say that I'm getting mixed signals. When I get home, she rings again and I ignore it. I don't eat, I lay on the bed in the dark and feel terrible for about two hours. Luckily, at 9pm my brain starts to kick in and I turn the TV on. A friend wanted to meet for a drink but I felt too weak to go (I have lost a stone since the beginning of the month, though in fairness I was dieting/not drinking for the nine days prior to finding out, so that explains about half of it, but I know it's pretty drastic).

Anyway, I watch a comedy show and find it funny - the first time I've managed to do this since it happened. I take two herbal sleeping tablets and fall asleep at about 11pm. My phone is on silent but unfortunately I get woken up by it vibrating at 4am. My wife sending 'xxx'. I think she means it but also is saying 'Look, I'm awake in the middle of the night, I feel awful about this'. In a weaker moment, thining about her texts about how ashamed she feels, I send back 'x'. However, I also know that this is because she woke me up when I need sleep the most and part of me wants to say to her later YOU WOKE ME UP!!!

It's 8am now and I haven't been back to sleep, and I feel better than I did yesterday. No real reason, my brain merely seems to be giving me a bit of a break (and typing ALL - sorry for the length! - of this is helping too I suppose). I have two offers on the table to meet with friends, so I'm going to go to the gym this morning, fill the afternoon, then go out for drinks like last weekend.

I know that either way I'm going to have to see her on Sunday and I know I have to throw her out. I've basically been too nice and she's been taking the p1ss. Her friend she can stay with is back from holiday now, so she can go and stay there. I know that it's more convenient for her to stay here for the weekdays and go away and hide (as she called it before) at weekends, as she obviously has to go to work near our house on weekdays, but I'm not going to put up with that any more now her friend is back.

Our friend has a one bed flat and she'll have to sleep on the floor or sofa, so she can see how she likes that, and she can have some more of the space she wants. Plus I can work on being alone, see how I feel, and go to work each day and then the gym, etc, in the evening, so I'll be busier than at weekends. We'll see how it goes. I think it's fair to say that I did reach the angry stage that you guys predicted after all.

Thanks for listening and for your responses.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 2:30 AM, January 18th (Saturday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 2:52 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Wronged,
Your dday is so close that I think now is the worst time to be trying to make a decision like this. Reading your post shows how your thoughts and feelings are all over the place.

You.do.not.have.to.decide.anything.right.now.

''I''ve offered you a chance to say none of that matters, I''ll do anything but you''ve rejected me again'', but I know that if I do this, it means I was playing a game all along (if that makes sense).
First of all this tells me that you do want her. I think you''re saying you want D because you''re convinced it will save you pain if you do it now by taking the initiative. I don''t think you were trying to play a game. You''re expecting consistency from yourself at the worst possible time in your life.

You''re afraid of getting hurt again. I know I personally would be very wary of pursuing A unless I felt deeply that my WW wanted R. Dday is bad enough. It''s even worse pain to take that risk, open your heart again and have your SO give up. If that''s what you''re afraid then give both of you some time.

I think you''re putting too many expectations on your WW and yourself.
I think you''re trying decisions based on scenarios of what you''re sure is going to happen, except you can''t be sure what''s going to happen.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3999 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 5:28 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Okay Brandon, thanks for that, it's good to get another perspective and that's appreciated.

I'm sort of caught between reading on here 'don't limbo too long, decide what you're going to do asap' and 'don't rush into anything' (and, I think, all things considered, I've been keeping a fairly good lid on things!). Also, timescale was partly dictated by her fertility as she will be 38 soon (plus, not to mention, what happened last week, lest we forget!).

Anyway, went to the gym and it felt good to do some cardio with loud music, though when I came out, had a text saying she was going to stick to the original plan and come back tomorrow, we should talk then, call if you want in meantime, love you, etc. I may have been channeling you Brandon (I read your message before I left), but I was all calm and said that I was fine and so was the plan, though I think in the interests of space, she should move into our friend's who lives nearby and I'll meet her at a pub or somewhere else neutral for a drink. She said fine and she'll let me know when she's back to pick up stuff; I said fine though it's my intention not to be hear when she is.

When I got back from the gym, a dog was taking a massive dump right outside our house, which felt vaguely appropriate, though the owner was about to clear it up, which might be stretching the metaphor a little too far.

Survival mode has kicked in and have made plans to meet a friend to watch football and for beers this evening, then possibly comedy club.

Other friend wants to meet tomorrow afternoon for a drink and I've said yes. I'll meet him and then I'll pass where my wife's going to be on way back, so can meet her then. Have known the friend I'm meeting for 20 years and, though we're not quite as close as we were, he was an usher at my wedding so am considering spilling the beans to him.

yearsofpain25 - Unbelievably Joy Division have come on the radio again literally as I'm typing this (must find a new station to listen to!), though as it's 'She's Lost Control' (and I don't have epilepsy), it doesn't feel quite as significant this time.

Cheers!

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 5:31 AM, January 18th (Saturday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
2yrsblind
Member
Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 6:04 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

When I read your story I get something a little different then many of the others.

What your wife did was horrible, yet she couldn't keep it from you for even a day. That counts for something, its a solid base to rebuild on.

What I think is, it was a cry for help. Maybe the ejaculation issue(I believe your way of not having children) had left her feeling unwanted maybe abit unloved. Again no excuse. We as men often fail our women when it comes to HEARING what they tell us, then when something happens if it be infidelity or the walk out, it comes as a big shock when it really shouldn't have.

She wanted a baby, not wanted but NEEDED and in her mind you were unwilling to help. Again not an excuse for what she did but something to consider.

Like you, my wife cheated, abit different. She had a two week phuck-a-ton with some random guy she didn't even know his last name. She couldn't hold her guilt and remorse. She didn't come right out and tell me, but she made it obvious that something had happened.

I divorced her spent some time finding myself, remarried and started a family. I no longer want her, yet I truly regret not having the balls to forgive her and make an honest effort to R.

Take the weekend to clear your head, ask her to stay and make an honest effort. Stop playing the emotional games, if you want her make it happen. Infidelity while never something you want, can be the catalyst to a better marriage. Learn and understand where you failed in the marriage and fix it (again her cheating not your fault), positive on your part will bring positive on her part.

If it works great, if not? No regrets, right?

[This message edited by 2yrsblind at 7:25 AM, January 19th (Sunday)]


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Also, the night before she said to me that it's like we both want to end it, but we're both scared to and we're trying to get the other do it. I become convinced that this what she is doing.

Help me understand what she is saying here. Is she saying that, aside from her infidelity, she might want to end it? Her desire to maybe end it predated her ONS? If so, was her ONS not just a drunken, sexually-charged event, but instead, something more akin to a "what the hell, it's over anyway....I might as well take advantage of this "open goal" to save sex tonight"-encouraged by the alcohol?

In any case, I would be very concerned that she said this.

I agree with Brandon that it does seem like you want her. That offer of R you made, which she may or may not have passed on, indicates that.

No need to worry about being in limbo too long, at this point. It's still only been a week or two.

I might be a little bit confused about where things stand right now. what is it that she is deciding on right now? Is the expectation that she will,return on Sunday with some type of decision about something?



Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Thanks 2yrsblind, great to hear from somewhere who has been there.

Re getting back together, still down to drunkenness, though she seems to think now that what she did was a symptom of the fact that she was more unhappy than she realised before (might have to 'blame' the counsellor for that one!). Also, whether we can work forward re baby and sex issues. Plus she is now trying to tell me that she was pro reconciliation but is less sure after I lost my sh1t yesterday (which I have told her in no uncertain terms that I think I was entitled to do once and she apologised).

Expectation is, I suppose, that she will come back and we will meet and discuss things. I still want her to move out for a bit though while we work it through.

Final piece of the jigsaw for you guys: we moved to London four years ago because of my work (it's media work so I have to work in the capital - I'm sure you've all recognised my hilarious writing style and near flawless punctuation already). Anyway, she misses her/our friends a lot and blamed me occasionally for about two years, but got over it (largely) when we bought the bigger house. She also got a much better job on a pretty much 50% pay rise (v good money) but it has been tough as it mainly involved sacking people, which she didn't sign up for, and her boss was a bit crazy.

Anyway, she ended up signing off with stress (never happened before) and was off for two months. At the time, the counsellor (who she went back to the other day) said she wasn't sure how much of it was down to work and how much baby (this was in second half of 2013 - I'm not complaining that this was massively tough for me BTW as it wasn't - she wasn't shot away or anything). This also resulted in a change of workplace for two days a week where she started working with the guy she slept with.

Anyway, where that becomes relevant here is that she has told me that she doesn't like the fact that I'm so 'available' now. I've always doted over her (affection, cooking, surprises, etc) but when we lived in our old city, I had a much bigger circle of close friends and I used to play football every Thurs, Sat and Sun. So sometimes I might go out at 1pm on Sat to play football and not come back until 4am, and then get up and go back out at 9am on Sun (I was fitter then!). She has said that she misses having to chase me around and she thinks I am now too dependent on her.

To be honest, we're both 37 now and, as much as I miss our friends, I thought it was natural that we slowed down our social life a bit and I also thought that if I behaved like that now that we're a bit more isolated, she would be seriously p1ssed off! (Now we know what women really want, eh? Not nice guys!)

Anyway, this is all putting me in a bit of a predicament now, as is an extra impediment (on top of the obvious!) to my general deep down instinct which is to 'be nice' to her. Anyway, long story short, that's why I'm going to kicking her out tomorrow.

Thought that was going to be a short point - got there in the end!

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 8:07 AM, January 18th (Saturday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, January 18th (Saturday)

It almost looks as if your wife was trying to end your marriage with that ONS, considering all the facts she gave you about using no protection and enjoying it. As you said, she wants you to deliver the coup de grace.

Why?
1] I think she believes that your failure to finish inside of her is why she has not conceived. Not necessarily true of course, it could be her age, but we are concerned with what she believes.
2] She desperately want a child.
3] You cannot assure her that you will finish inside of in the future; therefore she is not likely to conceive from her POV.
4] She definitely seems to be goading you to announce a separation.

If you separate with a view to divorcing, is it possible she will try and pregnant with another guy; maybe the one from a few days ago? [She has already tried once!], hence the suggestion of time apart, particularly the weekends. If she succeeds then she has her baby and maybe a potential father to live with. Maybe you underestimate just how important it is to her to get pregnant and how ruthless she can be to achieve that end..

If she doesn't succeed then maybe she can reconcile with you, since it must be her fertility that is questionable. In that case she will hope you don't find out about copious sex with the other guys.

I just have this feeling that the ONS was a tacit announcement from her ending your marriage; just think of the way she immediately told you with all the hurtful details. The next step I believe is to get pregnant with OM[s] and you are playing into her hands by throwing her out of the house. Now to find a suitable father; I don't believe she is fazed by the possibility of being a single mother. Not till later anyway. If you think she is going to be sitting at her friends house doing the crossword and watching television, you are in for a shock.

If you want to reconcile you will have to prove you can finish inside her or I believe the marriage is over; at least as far as she is concerned. She is seeing her dream of a mother slowly dying and the blame is placed right on you.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, January 18th (Saturday)

I also think that having a baby is a big deal. I don't think you can overstate this. For many people, not just women, having a child and wanting to have a family is a fundamental part of who they are.

I don't think you not being able to come in her is the issue. You can get pregnant other ways. I think the issue is that you don't really want a child. Whether she knows it or not, this may be a dealbreaker for her.

I know in my case, that if I met a woman and she didn't want to have children ever, it would be a dealbreaker for me. I always wanted a family. It wouldn't matter how much I loved the woman. I wanted children. Now... if she wanted to have children but couldn't, I wouldn't divorce her or dump her. That would be beyond her control.

But.... if a woman simply refused to have children because she didn't want them, I would assume that ultimately we wanted different things in life.

Your wife is 37. She may think she only has a few more years left to have a child.

Believe it or not, I think this is the elephant in the room, not the one night stand.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, January 18th (Saturday)

she said to me that it's like we both want to end it, but we're both scared to and we're trying to get the other do it.

Be very wary of a WS who *assumes* what you are thinking and speaks *for* you......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8074 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 5:08 AM, January 19th (Sunday)

Justs a quick comment.
I think a wife would be very troubled by a husband who couldn't come in her. It basically says that she is not exciting enough to get her man to ejaculate. He can get off himself but she isn't desirable enough to make him orgasm. Kind of insulting.

She doesn't want to conceive her child with a turkey baster, disposable syringe, or in a doctors office. Wronged, you have completely underestimated the problem you have and the effect on your marriage. Wake up before its too late. Your wife is really leaving you and I think you are about to be hit with a ton of bricks. You are not really in control of this situation.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 5:16 AM, January 19th (Sunday)

Wronged, you have completely underestimated the problem you have and the effect on your marriage. Wake up before its too late. Your wife is really leaving you and I think you are about to be hit with a ton of bricks. You are not really in control of this situation.

i think there is some truth to that. I'm not sure I agree with the ejaculation part, but you may be right. I'm obviously not a woman. but I think if that was really the case, why would she stay with him so long? It's certainly not new. However, that, as well as the wanting a child, is the issue. She may well be on her way out unless something happens to change the equation. Normally, after a ONS and a confession, a WW will try hard to save the marriage. She seems to be finding a way for him to agree that it's time to split. At least based on how I read what he wrote.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, January 19th (Sunday)

Even if she is leaving you, and her desire for a child was greater than you understood, and the sex you and she had was a bigger problem than you understood, she still chose to act out by sleeping with another man. Reminder -- you share none of the responsibility for her ONS. (....just so this doesn't get lost in the fray)

With that said, the non-infidelity related marital issues do exist and would probably be hard for her not to verbalize to you at a time when she is searching for why she acted out in this way. They don't justify what she did, but they do need to be addressed for her to be happy. She does need to get to the real "why", but it might take more than a week for her to do that.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

TWM, I was connecting through Heathrow earlier this morning and put on Unknown Pleasures thinking about you. I had it cranked. Of course She's Lost Control was on there. We must have been on the same brain wavelength or something.

And she turned around and took me by the hand
And said I've lost control again.
And how I'll never know just why or understand
She said I've lost control again.

Heavy! We need to lighten up your play selection a bit. How about Bauhaus or Cure from the early 80's. Sheesh!!

I love London. My 2nd favorite city next to Edinburgh. I just wish London wasn't so damn expensive.

Anyway, just wanted to check in with you real quick. You are a much stronger man and calmer man than I would be. Keep giving us updates. We want to make sure you are ok.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2184 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, January 19th (Sunday)



1] I think she believes that your failure to finish inside of her is why she has not conceived. Not necessarily true of course, it could be her age, but we are concerned with what she believes.

Is the reason not because he doesn't want to, but physically cant - not wont. I don't like the word 'failure' I am quite sure that if he could, he would want to ...
There are other means of getting the sperm to the egg! Plenty of couples go thru the same things. It doesn't even have to involve medical procedures ... turkey baster springs to mind, legs up and lay there for 15 mins!!!! Failure does not come into it!

If you separate with a view to divorcing, is it possible she will try and pregnant with another guy; maybe the one from a few days ago? [She has already tried once!]

Do u honestly believe she slept with this guy, to get pregnant!!!!! If that's the case why didn't she shut her mouth and pretend that it was the H baby (assuming what u believe she set out to do, happened!) then why tell him the following morning!! And, even if this is the case, if they do get divorced, it will have nothing to do with him who she sleeps with, she can then do as she pleases, what's the point of that quote??!!!

In that case she will hope you don't find out about copious sex with the other guys.

Other guys??? There were other guys????? Did I miss something?????

If you want to reconcile you will have to prove you can finish inside her or I believe the marriage is over;

That is ridiculous!!!!!!!! Im sorry, but IF (and I state IF in capital letters) she is that type of person to do that, I for one wouldn't dream of going through 'R' with her. I would want her to 'R' with me because SHE LOVES ME .... not because she wants a baby and is willing to sleep with any tom dick or harry!!!

She KNEW what she was getting into when she married him. She knew he would NEVER be able to climax inside her! She accepted him .... and now your saying if he cant do what he hasn't been physically able to do EVER... she is off! Then in my eyes, im sorry but she isn't worth it!

I don't know why Wronged cant climax inside his wife, or any other woman. its pretty obvious to any man reading this, if he could - HE WOULD!!! Im so annoyed with some of the replies in here saying she wants to leave because of his failure to climax inside her. My H cant climax inside me, ive known that since the day I met him, he cant climax inside me and he cant penetrate me ... he gets off by himself and I help to get him off ... its not because he doesn't fancy me, or doesn't desire me or prefers to get off himself .... he would LOVE to be able to penetrate me and climax inside me, and im pretty dam sure Wronged would love to aswell!!

IMHO that has no bearing on his wife having a ONS, and as for the earlier quote from her IC, 'a woman needs to have her cup filled' I nearly spat my good ole English tea at the screen upon hearing that! What is this world coming to!!!!


Me & Hubby = aged 46
Together 16 years
Married 9 years
He had 1 yr EA in chat room then 6mths EA phone/texting with same woman.
Cyber sexed with many OW in chat room for at least 1 year.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
Heartbroken2013
Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

he would LOVE to be able to penetrate me and climax inside me, and im pretty dam sure Wronged would love to aswell!!

Ok, that came out all wrong .... lol! I meant wronged would love to be able to with his wife, not me! Just clearing that up!


Me & Hubby = aged 46
Together 16 years
Married 9 years
He had 1 yr EA in chat room then 6mths EA phone/texting with same woman.
Cyber sexed with many OW in chat room for at least 1 year.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

Im so annoyed with some of the replies in here saying she wants to leave because of his failure to climax inside her. My H cant climax inside me, ive known that since the day I met him,

I agree. Absolutes are annoying. But your reasoning is slightly flawed based on what Wronged has stated regarding his 'climaxing' issues.

She KNEW what she was getting into when she married him. She knew he would NEVER be able to climax inside her!

This^^^ is incorrect.

He said that~

yes 100%. She has a massive issue with the fact that I can't climax inside her (I never have through penetration with anyone bar once with my wife...

So he was able to climax through penetration with his wife, albeit once. I hate to be a stickler but your situation is different from his.

IMHO, I will stand by the general statement that most women get a BIG THRILL from having their men cum with them, inside them. There are many physiological things that occur when a man cums in a woman that benefit the relationship. Bonding, a sense of well being, satisfaction, limerence...we all know the drill. No pun intended...

Does anyone think that she feels if he did it before what is keeping him from doing it again? Or she wonders why Wronged does not make an effort to work on the issue?

I guess the real question would be why would his WW stay in a relationship where she had a "massive issue"?

I do agree that having sex with someone other than your husband is a horrible way to deal with issues in your marriage. She could have expressed her unhappiness or just divorced. She has a broken moral compass.

Then in my eyes, im sorry but she isn't worth it!

Amen to that^^^


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

Hi everyone,

It's 11.20pm and I am shattered so don't have the time to go through all of this right now but thought I'd check in to say thanks and I am okay.

Basically had a rather fun day yesterday which involved drinking until 5am and so when my wife came back I'd hardly even gotten out of bed, so there went the plan to not be there and for her to get her things. I realised a lot when I was drunk too, espec the point someone made about how they regretted never having tried to reconcile with their wife - that really resonated with me, so thanks a million, and also some lovely people have sent me some lovely PMs saying the same thing and SHE WAS DRUNK AND TOLD YOU, etc, which helped me swallow my pride. Thanks again!

Although trying to end our marriage on Fri prob wasn't ideal, maybe I needed to do that for my pride (who knows?) and I prob needed to get that anger out at some point.

Anyway, I'm waffling on. Point is, she got back, we chatted calmly for about four hours and, as we both still love each other, we're going to give it a go. Couples counseling for us and will try with the baby and climaxing things later down the line.

She's looking after me and we're talking to each other in a much nicer fashion than we have for years (less bickering), so hopefully that will last.

I need some sleep but will be back on tomorrow night to go over the above, but (fingers crossed!) the daily updates won't be required any more, though I obviously know that this is only the beginning.

All in all, it looks like I'll never have to do the washing up again and I've still got the offer to sleep with an inexpensive prostitute in the back pocket, so there is a bright side too (don't worry, I'm not going to do the latter!).

The climaxing thing was not an excuse (drink is the big one - though she still says that's not good enough but she's sorry, etc) but we're going to try and address that along with everything else (it seems like a good time to try and clear everything up) later down the line. It wasn't complained about in the past but has been realised is an issue now (I honestly didn't realise that women love this so much - but then again... I'm a man I suppose!). She joked earlier that she will prob end up taking me back in and saying, 'Can you stick some back on please, the stupid b@stard keeps prematurely ejaculating now'. Which was quite funny.

Anyway, hopefully Friday was the worst of it and I thank you all once again. See you tomorrow!

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 5:38 PM, January 19th (Sunday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

Point is, she got back, we chatted calmly for about four hours and, as we both still love each other, we're going to give it a go.

That is beautiful.

The road through infidelity is a long one. With with love and respect you will make it. Please be kind to one another. Best of luck to the two of you!

(((((Wronged and WW)))))


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, January 20th (Monday)

Hey Wronged,

I haven‘t had the time to be here on SI lately but every time I‘ve dropped in I‘ve monitored your situation. Wish I had chipped in days ago... For what it‘s worth then here is my take on some aspects of your situation. I’m a former cop and in my later career after leaving law enforcement have spent a lot of time in project management, human resources and crisis management. I believe my past gives me a rather cynical but accurate ability to assess human behavior and interaction.

Let me start by telling you that I think this is a none-planned, one off event for your wife. I reach this conclusion from reading about her actions and reactions for the day this happened. They are not in line with a planned, long-term affair; an exit affair or repeated behavior. And as some have pointed out; her coming directly home and confessing is an EXTREMELY positive thing.

Second: I think the worst advice ever offered here on SI is the “don’t need to decide anything right now” line. If ANYTHING then infidelity requires ACTION. Rephrase the sentence this way and it makes sense “don’t do anything that’s irreversible or burns bridges behind you and THINK all actions through”. IMHO you really need to commit to R or D right away after d-day but you need to do so from a logical, sensible point.

When dealing with a crisis it’s imperative to know the possible paths out, their costs, benefits and requirements. So after d-day then EVEN IF you decide to R then knowing what D entails only makes sense. If you want to R then it makes sense to realize what it requires. Basically IMHO R only requires a couple of things to start; commitment, no active infidelity and communications. To complete R you need a lot more, including the utter remorse often mentioned, but to START the journey you basically only need to hold hands and start walking along the path.

OK – Shortly after joining the police a veteran pointed out to me that seldom – if EVER – a culprit will fully acknowledge the guilt and blame of his actions. So a rapist would admit to the intercourse but adamantly maintain the victim wanted it, asked for it or “liked it rough”. The burglar would maintain this was his only option for feeding his family and that the damage was covered by the victims insurance. The assailant would maintain the other man needed a beating or asked for it. The drunk driver had a very important meeting and “wasn’t THAT drunk” or didn’t realize how tired he was… Whatever… No matter the crime there was an excuse.
Only two types of people seemed capable of fully acknowledging that what they did was morally wrong and totally their fault: 1) extremely wholesome and thoughtful people that were honest enough to themselves to realize their culpability and 2) sociopaths. For sociopaths admitting guilt wasn’t really an issue.

So when your wife comes home she’s wondering what the h@ll happened. This isn’t her normal behavior and even she realizes that what she did is wrong. So she does exactly what all those burglars, rapists, drunk drivers… do: She tries to find something or anything to explain or even slightly justify her actions.
Go read your posts; all this about feeling unfulfilled, being a cliché, the child issue… – these are all explanations to “understand” her behavior. Just like the burglar thinks his crime is victimless because insurance probably covers the damage. Just like the rapist is convinced that the woman wanted it rough and really wasn’t putting up a fight.

OK – So let’s step aside a bit and look at what happened: What your wife did might have been unplanned and a single, one off event. BUT… she did it. It is something that at some point she DECIDED to carry through. At some point – no matter how drunk – she decided to take that one step further. One step more than her warning system told her was OK.
(Regarding the alcohol… It’s no excuse. Chances are she was drunk, but she was obviously still capable of reaching a decision to carry on. If not… well… then this is rape rather than infidelity and so far she hasn’t jumped on that wagon).
Get it? At the elevator, at the end of the corridor, at the door of the room, at the first kiss… There are so many steps where she could have said “no”. But she didn’t. To me this is a major point that we (and the WS) have to accept: YOUR WIFE MADE A CLEAR AND CONCIOUS DECISSION TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.

Why is this so important? Well… what if she didn’t decide to have the affair? If we accept that an affair can take place without the WS acceptance… well… there is no way to avoid another affair.

It’s sort of like why we expect members of a marching band not to shit on the road during a parade but don’t complain if a horse does so. Why? Well… the horse can’t help it. If your wife doesn’t accept the whole and total blame of the affair WITH NO EXCUSE such as lack of fulfilment, wanting a child, sexual issues or whatever… then you can’t expect her not to drop one next parade.

All the issues she brings home… they are relevant to how your marriage progresses. But they aren’t really relevant to the infidelity. No matter what state your marriage was in… the solution was never to have an affair.
You too need to be careful not to seek excuses for her. That’s something I also saw a lot of; people making excuses for why they were the victims.

So IMHO if you want to reconcile then you sort of have to accept her for what she is and what she has done.
Without accepting that it’s acceptable behavior.
She has to acknowledge that no matter what her issues are then her actions are totally unacceptable and unforgivable. And that despite them being so you will find some way of forgiving, hopefully way before she forgives herself.

Look – You two won’t “fix” anything per se right now. Over time you will heal. Along that path you will hopefully deal with issues such as communications, joint goals and what you want out of life. (The child issue is a big red flag that there is something missing in that area with you two…). Let her go to IC and DO NOT expect her to bring home the patent solution to all the worlds issues every time. In fact – make it clear to her that HER IC is HER IC and you aren’t really interested in what goes on in there. That she is your wife of her own free will and that if that’s not enough for her… well… she’s free to go. That role has its benefits but it requires concessions. Such as your concession not to go buy a prostitute, not to lay hands on your wife and so on.
Go to MC to get help on the relationship but use IC to become better capable of contributing to MC.

Finally… A question: Socially is it you with your mates and she with her mates? Is your social life centered around having a pint? Do you two do anything “wholesome” together that’s not centered around daily mundane household activities? I’m thinking walks, theatre, opera… Things in that vein.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)

Hey TWM, was in London today and was thinking of you. How are you doing?


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2184 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, January 27th (Monday)

Hey Wronged, haven't heard from you in a while. How are you doing?


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2184 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 5:33 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Hi, if anyone here remembers, wanted to log-in really quickly to say 'I am okay'. I have been spending time away from this site - it was incredibly helpful to me thanks to you amazing people, but think I thought I needed to start working on my marriage and not sit here re-reading this thread and getting myself angry, etc.

Feel incredibly presumptuous logging in and assuming that people need an update from me, but also feel bad that everyone was so nice and I disappeared very suddenly.

Anyway, to confirm: am okay, we're still working at it and have had some real pluses (even managed to go on a spontaneous weekend abroad together and had a really good time). I will update more shortly when I have more time (I'm working at the moment!), but wanted to say thanks again and I hope you are all bearing up to.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 5:44 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Thanks for updating! It' snot presumptuous at all - we care. Glad to hear it' showing well.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1061 | Registered: Aug 2012
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)

I was wondering about your situation. Please keep posting and let us know what's happening.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Glad to see you are doing ok Wronged. Was worried about you. Keep posting when you can.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2184 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Thanks for updating. I have been wondering how you were going. Your instincts were right about providing an update. Many people here do care, believe it or not. People here understand the struggle.

Good luck with your progress.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
JstCantBelieveIt
New Member
Member # 42214
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Glad to hear you are doing well. I didn't find this site until a few weeks ago, so missed you initial postings, but it was good to see your reactions and changes over time since we shared the same Dday.

Hope things continue to go well for you.


Me - BS 33
Her - WW 34
Kids - 14b, 9b, 8g, 6b
Married - 2003
Together - 1996
D-Day: 1/10/2014 (Admitted EA/PA 10/2012 - 3/2013)

Posts: 11 | Registered: Jan 2014
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 3:16 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)

Hello,

Right, I said I'd be back with an update so here it is for anyone who is interested! Thanks for your concern, it means, a lot. Am actually working at home today so have a quick 15 minute window before I start to blurt it all out quickly, so here goes!

Haven't been on here for a while and it feels like loads has happened but at the same time nothing really has changed massively. I said at the outset of this that the sad situation of this it that we both love each other and she is sorry - and that's still the basic crux of it.

We basically went through a few weeks of it being good. I even had a work trip to a big European city that required me to fly home on a Friday afternoon, so I got the company to change my flight to the Sunday and my wife got a flight out and we had a weekend away together and had a really good time - eating, talking, laughing, being silly (and, yes, drinking together too, though that was fine).

It's been generally the same for weeks, though through all the sorries, etc, my wife could occasionally be defensive, bolshy and a bit selfish. This all came to a head about a week ago when I thought that I was trying harder than she was and said that I needed more. Basically, the angry stage returned for a while before a big bit of self-pity on my part. I think (THINK!) that at this point she finally 'got' it and she hit the low that she needed to get to (I think she'd been in denial to an extent about what she'd done and I've read the cheater can take a little more time to get to the bottom, which is kind of understandable). She went back to massively sorry, bombarding me with texts about how sorry she is, etc, and we agreed that this had to be a turning point, as neither us could face going backwards again.

She bought the 'Women's Infidelity' helpbook which she had identified as being really accurate as to some of how she felt and read it all (some of it together) and has been really good since - no more excuses, bolshiness, etc. I said to her that I needed to promise not to throw out blame towards her and she needed to stop making excuses and we both agreed that that was a good way forward. We still talk loads (we do little else!) but it's all honest, positive and not argumentative, etc.

We also went through the hysterical bonding thing a few weeks back which stopped in less than a week, which has also been a problem (as she was the one who stopped it). She has taken massive steps to get that back on track too, which has been amazing. We haven't had sex yet (though she's suggested it more than once), though we have repeatedly been able to make me climax with her doing all of the work (sorry for typing that sentence, not sure how else to put it!). By the way, it turns our it was a mixture of physical and psychological. Some 'positions' work better than others and then once I had let go mentally once we'd broken the barrier. Also, she had the problem of not allowing herself to climax, but she has since gotten over that in quite spectacular fashion. This obviously all bodes well for us 'sharing' sex in future and for our general bonding now (she certainly seems a lot happier and less stressed since learning to climax again). Oh, and she's not pregnant and all of her STD tests have been negative so far.

We read in her book that she needs to forgive herself too before we can move on and I obviously understand that (a lot of the probs of the last few weeks have obviously been down to guilt I think). I am now in something of a cycle, though, as I understand that when she's upset occasionally we need to work through that together to move on. But then occasionally when she's happy I feel like she's 'won' and it's not fair. I know that the former mindset is the correct one to have, however, and that it has only been a month and all things considered we are getting on incredibly well.

Cat also got out of the bag with respect to telling friends and that has helped. Everyone said straight away 'It's 17 years and she's sorry, you need to try and make it work'. A couple even said, 'I think you're doing the right thing but I don't know if I could, I'd run'. This sounds like a compliment but part of me thinks, 'Are they saying I'm a sucker?' I also know that I need to ultimately do what's right for us and not worry about that, and they're our friends and want to support us.

Anyway, is 9am and have to start work, I have LOADS to do! However, typing that all out has made me feel calm and I thank you all again for your time and support (those who I haven't responded to directly, there's a lot of info in this thread, but rest assured that it has all been digested and considered many, many times and I appreciate it!). I sincerely hope that you are all getting all of the good advice and support (on here and also elsewhere) that I am. Thank you!


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:37 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)

Congrats on your progress.

Remember, this is all a process. Just because infidelity is ugly, it can't be ignored. So even though the two of you don't like dealing with it, it is very healing to do so....if it is done in a constructive, joint effort.

As for this:

Am actually working at home today so have a quick 15 minute window before I start to blurt it all out quickly, so here goes!

Hell, it would have taken me an HOUR to type that!


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Hi,

I just mailed part of this in reply to someone else experiencing the same thing as me and thought I would paste it in here as could do with some advice on detecting guilt and getting over anger if anyone has any.

My wife and I are generally getting on well and she seems remorseful, and in my 'lucid' state I know this is positive. However, after a while I start to think that she has gotten everything she wants and has now 'won' and now I'm carrying the can for it all. Basically I think she's gotten off lightly, though I know making her suffer (for want of a better word) will be counterproductive for our recovery. This whole process is like a vicious circle.

I also doubt sometimes how sorry she really is. I think part of the natural state of the cheater is to detach and try and forget what they've done (which is kind of understandable I suppose, though I think it will catch up with them sooner or later). She said to me yesterday that sometimes she can forget about it (it's like it never happened because the experience meant so little to her), but then she looks at me she remembers what she has done. She asked me what I wanted her to do to make it better, and I said that if I told her and then she did it, it wouldn't mean anything, so she had to work it out.

She does text me messages, etc, and hug me a lot, but I feel sometimes like she doesn't really 'get' it. Also, she went and told her parents without me asking her to (in fact, I specifically said that it would upset them so don't bother), so she obviously knows she's done wrong. I also know that she can't face any of our friends. When one came to stay recently he guessed something was up when he was talking to her about general things as she looked like she was about to cry all the time. She's also stopped being as defensive and bolshy as she was and making excuses for her behaviour. Basically, I know that she is definitely ashamed of herself but is that the same thing? Are the above examples 'good' signs that she is sorry?

I have said to a couple of friends that I need to swallow this whole thing and move on, but it's easier said than done. Also, I am generally being 'nice' as this seems the most productive way to be; the only times I've really shouted her down is when she's tried to excuse her behaviour, etc. However, I feel like if I'm too nice, she's gotten away with it and is happy about that. Like I say, it's like a vicious circle. And I also feel like I can't be bothered to play tedious 'mind games' of this sort with someone I have been with for 17 years!

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 1:37 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Before the ONS your wife was unhappy, or at least dissatisfied with the state of the marriage. Now she is remorseful and you have addressed her concerns and created a very much improved relationship.

If your WW could bring herself to be brutally honest, wouldn't she regard the ONS has a good decision, since it has resulted in increased happiness? Sure, you got a lot of pain dumped on you, but from her perspective wasn't the end result worth it? After all most of us would rather have a little guilt than endure the agony of being the adultery victim, so she hasn't suffered like you have.

I doubt your wife would confess that she views her cheating favorably, but I wonder.....
As you stated:

I also doubt sometimes how sorry she really is

Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 1:49 AM, February 21st (Friday)

Thanks for that. Interestingly she got in last night after going for a few drinks with her (female) boss and said she felt really down about what she had done. Basically she has told her boss the situation and her boss gave it to her straight and said that she'd done the worst thing possible.

Woke up this morning really upbeat and when i broached it she said can we discuss it tomorrow as we both have work and then carried on being cheery. I suppose the situation could be worse than her being too upbeat, and I think this sums her up: remorse underneath but not always showing it on the surface.

She has acknowledged that there have been positives (while saying that it was wrong), though the last time I said to her that she's gotten what she wanted she said something along the lines of 'no I haven't because I hate myself'. Also, we are no longer trying for a child. However, she has stopped bringing up the latter which annoyed me when she brought it up before.

Typing this has helped me realise that my situation could be worse, I think I just want more regular blatant expressions of I'm sorry as opposed to general nice behaviour. I suppose it just takes time!


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, February 21st (Friday)

she got in last night after going for a few drinks

Do you have any issue with her drinking, considering that she fell of a bar stool at 5:00 am the night if her ONS?


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 953 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, February 21st (Friday)

If it is any comfort the WW doesn't get off scot free. What she did sucked the romance out of the marriage [presuming it was there in the first place!]. She can hardly ask for rose petals on the bed, candlelit dinners, flowers, and soft, gentle words of endearment, after sweating, rutting and copulating with the OM. Nothing romantic about that.

She will live the rest of her life as a wife who cheated, betrayed her husband when tempted, never again a faithful wife. The closer you grow as spiritual mates the more it hurts that she cannot be exclusively your woman anymore; she betrayed the marriage when put to the test. An adulteress for eternity no less.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, February 21st (Friday)

Yes your WW needs to be in limbo for however long it takes for you to come to a decision.. She may be nice on the surface for other ulterior motives and not true remorse..

I think it is very appropriate that having a biological child together has been taken off of the table..

So many people say that it takes 2-5 years to heal from major betrayal like infidelity...R or D...But in many ways I think the aftermath of infidelity becomes a life sentence..

The sooner your WW understands this the more grateful she will be for what she has in front of her and for what she can salvage of the M or any type of relationship with you..She may or may not get her head out of her B*** and realize this..

It will be up to you as to how long you can tolerate waiting for your WW to address her issues.. I am not sure she is really digging in to give you what you need to trust her again..I suspect she has some regret on the surface but not deep or true remorse yet..

You may ultimately decide that her behavior in the coming days/months will be a deal breaker for you..

Focus on yourself and what you need to regain some kind of stable ground in your life...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 8:42 AM, February 21st (Friday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1245 | Registered: Nov 2011
cvs2kkids
Member
Member # 41298
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, February 21st (Friday)

She has acknowledged that there have been positives (while saying that it was wrong), though the last time I said to her that she's gotten what she wanted she said something along the lines of 'no I haven't because I hate myself'. Also, we are no longer trying for a child

Just started your story and skimmed through the whole thread. It's been a roller coaster ride for you and I can certainly relate.

However, I truly believe some BS are in their own downward spiral after A. In your case, she admitted to it immediately. In fact, she brought it to your attention.

I get the pain. I really do (my WW's A went on for a year, but she ended it before I found out). But I thing some empathy toward your wife appears warranted, until she gives you reasons otherwise.


Philippians 4:6-7

6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your mind


Posts: 234 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NB Canada
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, February 21st (Friday)

Thanks guys, no one is saying 'rub her face in it', so I guess the best thing is to carry on as we are until I have good reason not to. The main problem is I feel angry internally a lot (particularly when we're apart - though that might be me being generally annoyed because I'm at work!), though I guess that will lessen with time. I started feeling angry towards the other guy today for a bit, which I hadn't really bothered with much until now, though maybe that's progress of sorts!

Drink-wise, this has been discussed a lot, including giving up entirely, though at the moment the deal is that she will monitor herself and behave properly, both around me and otherwise. Last night they were out for about five hours and drank two bottles of wine between them, which is hardly going crazy (and she wasn't much more than a bit drunk when she got in). We also went to a comedy club with friends last week and she drove at her own insistence (even though the Tube would have taken no time).

I am happy to go with this for now. I don't have any urge to wave the big stick other than make the obvious demands! There obviously needs to be compromise but at the same time, I kind of feel like, if she's only not sleeping with other people because I have her on such a tight lead, then I'd rather get on with it and get divorced now. This is how I feel about us anyway (and she does seem to have been honest with me so far) and I don't want to offend anyone as I obviously appreciate that other people's circumstances demand a lot more surveillance!

Anyway, we have our first relaxed weekend at home together since it happened, and have no plans other than cinema tonight and comedy and dinner and a few drinks together tomorrow. I am hopeful that a bit more of a chilled out weekend than we've had for quite a while will do us good.

Thanks again everyone, much appreciated!

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 5:07 PM, February 21st (Friday)]


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, February 21st (Friday)

I have said to a couple of friends that I need to swallow this whole thing and move on, but it's easier said than done.

Sometimes the WS promotes rugsweeping. I think that your idea of moving on quickly will come back to bite you in the a$$. Sorry.

I wanted to do that with Mr. Happy. I really do love him and was utterly crushed by his shitty choices. But I love him and only know how to treat him with kindness and love. So in the interest of keeping peace in the house I stopped talking about his A and tried to be 'my old self'.

Neither he nor I realized that he killed 'my old self' when he fell in the gutter with that fornicatress.

This did not help and made things between us worse.

He was thrilled that I stopped crying and yelling. And I would hug and kiss him back and such.

But you know...he got the wrong impression about what was really happening in my heart and mind. I felt like I had been hit with a MAC truck! And when he started acting cavalier and trying to be 'normal'...I finally let him have it! I realized I was sending him the wrong signals. So I had to change my tack. I reserved the right to speak on how I was feeling or probe for more info with out him getting defensive.

I was like a parrot, I kept asking the same questions...over and over. I realized that my behavior was because my mind was re-booting with all the new 'real' info on my life and my past with him. When things did not jive, I would question him. He had to learn to deal with that. Thank goodness he got balls of steel! LOL

He took all of my slings and arrows with grace and humility. And even now continues to hold me close and promise 'never again'.

I have since slowed down to maybe a query every couple of months.

I have come to acceptance. It's not pretty but it really is my life. And now I feel that I have the real info so that I can lead an authentic life with him and myself.

So never give up your right to ask as many questions as you like. At any time. Adultery and betrayal carry consequences. She will just have to deal. And from your description of the current times, I think if you explain to her that you have to re-boot your brain to accept that she could do this to you, I think she will understand and really try to help you heal.

Hope my missive is not too long...

Take Care TWM.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, February 21st (Friday)

Not too long and very helpful!

I don't feel that she is really rug sweeping, as she told her parents of her own volition and kept insisting that I speak to ours about it when I refused to because she was worried about me.

At the moment I try not to bring it up all the time, but say something if it is on my mind and only shout her down if she makes excuses, etc. Thankfully the latter has pretty much stopped in the last week or so (it's been six since it happened). I think she is 'sorry' but I think she will hit a new low of realisation some time in the future.

Thanks again!


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, February 21st (Friday)

I don't feel that she is really rug sweeping...

Now you know that I was talking about YOU rugsweeping.

Although it is great that she is being transparent and honest. That is a huge step. Hopefully humility will come when she reaches bottom. And if she has any empathy she will start to see herself in the mirror.

I bet she is just glad that the 'cat is out of the bag'. It takes a lot out of a person to lie and cheat a person that really loves them. Mr. Happy even told me how happy he was now that I know the truth of his creepy affair. "Hey thanks for the info, I'm SO damned happy YOU feel so much better!"

I just would like to emphasize the importance of you allowing yourself to feel the pain and let her see and feel it first hand. Unfortunately you cannot avoid this part of the grief recovery.

I know, it sucks to let your brain and heart really feel the pain.

But your moments of despair will slow down and become less and less. Promise.

And when you process the real truth of your life with her, it will help you live in the present, authentically.

Peace,
GTH

[This message edited by Getting to Happy at 6:08 PM, February 21st (Friday)]


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
TheWrongedMan
Member
Member # 42009
Default  Posted: 5:43 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Thanks GTH, this is by and large what is happening - it's just about picking a balance between constructive conversation and 'wallowing' - not sure it's constructive to talk about it all the time, though know this needs to be addressed as and when.

Wife had a small relapse last night which annoyed me though was dealt with quickly. She is great most of the time but occasionally her I'm-almost-38-and-I-want-a-baby hormones kick in, which I understand but don't think is fair right now. Nipped it in the bud pretty quickly, said it wasn't fair to pile that on top right now, and she is back to apologetic, loving, etc.

Came about as I had a doctors appointment this morning to discuss my mental health and delayed ejaculation. Went to see him a moment ago and all went well. Explained situation in brief and he listened. He said he thought I was handling this well enough and didn't offer me Prozac, etc, or refer me for personal counselling. Said that sounded like we were working it out and that due to it being one-off and her being honest, with good communication like we have, should be able to move forward with time. He gave me the number of a relationship counsellor should we need it (we did try it once before though neither found it particularly helpful, as we basically paid him £60 to tell him a load of stuff we already knew and then didn't really get any feedback!). Am starting to think that counselling is prob more for people with bigger problems, or for those who are blocked and can't communicate without arguing, etc. On the personal counselling front, he didn't think I needed it but said to call back in three months if I still felt angry, etc.

On the delayed ejaculation, he has referred me for psychosexual counselling (my wife has already been referred for this) and apparently they should be able to see me in two or three months (though we have already made steps forward on this and, who knows, if we have sex, we might make more I suppose!).

My wife has also expressed an interest in the wayward side of the forum and has said she would like to log in there and me here, which I think is positive though am slightly nervous about (it's about trust I suppose re not checking up on each other). The idea is that I don't go in there and she doesn't come in here.

Other than that, nothing else to report! Any feedback welcomed as ever...


BH: Me, 37
WW: 37
Together: 17, married 7 (what a cliche)
DD: 10/1/14 V drunk ONS, confessed immediately, repentant
Kids: None (though we were trying)

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2014
Topic Posts: 140