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User Topic: Why did I say I loved the AP?
somethingremorse
Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, January 17th (Friday)

I had a LTA with my BW SIL (lots of abbreviations there). We have been in MC and I have been in IC since DDay. Things seem to be going as well as can be expected.

In IC, I really want to fix myself. I am horrified with the person I was leading up to and during my A. The hour in IC slips by so quickly that I have lots of questions I want to ask, that I just haven't got to yet. I guess I'll be in IC for a while.

One question that I haven't gotten to on my list is that I told the AP that I loved her. I think that I was being honest -- i.e., I wasn't just saying what she wanted to hear. Even before our A, we were close.

Since DDay, I have had no problem leaving the AP behind. I'm not wondering about what the A provided me. I want to know what was happening in me that I could feel that way about the AP. Or any insights on what I was feeling. I know that I was thinking wrongly about so much during that time. I want to unravel every bit of it.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 629 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
Actionsoverwords
Member
Member # 41949
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, January 17th (Friday)

I can't speak for any other WSs, but for me, I told the AP that I loved her when I was deep in the fog. I didn't truly believe it and did a lot of rationalizing.

I asked myself questions like, "If I don't love her, then why don't I stop seeing her?" or, "Why do I feel like I need to be in constant contact with her or near her if I don't love her?"

So far, I have figured out that part of the reason I said it, was to give myself permission to continue in the affair without acknowledging the wrongs that I was committing against my wife. For me, it is a lot more complicated then that. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you are able to figure out your reasons.


Me: WH, 30's
Her : BW, 30's, (determinata)
Children: An amazing son.
I am a sex addict, working on myself, and facing the wreckage of my actions.



Posts: 272 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, January 17th (Friday)

You may have mistook infatuation for love?
Here is a handy chart:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Infatuation_vs_Love

If you are like my H, he was having powerful feelings that he couldn't explain. He also didn't think he was a person capable of "just an affair," or of using someone to fluff up his aging, suffering ego. So, he reasoned, it must be love, right? (he then, offensively and inaccurately, thought she was "like" me, which was supposedly evidence that she was lovable. Twisted, right?)

Many books refer to the affair as a mirror - the APs reflect back what the waywards so desperately want to see. It is like Narcissus - they fall in love with their own reflection of all they thought they were missing. And it feels awesome! Must be love, right? You probably also didn't want to give up the "high," so you believed what you needed to to fuel the addiction.

But, like you describe, once the bright light of day hits it, it usually vaporizes fairly quickly.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 11:02 AM, January 17th (Friday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2063 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, January 17th (Friday)

For myself, "I love you" was used as currency. He wanted to hear it, if I said it he would shut up, and things would move along. I knew I didn't love him. I loved how he made me feel. I didn't love the drug dealer, just the drug. Make sense?

What did the A provide for me? Validation, temporary self-esteem boost, attention. A band-aid for my gaping wound.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6308 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, January 17th (Friday)

Wow, just wow. This would have been a deal-breaker for me, if my WW would have told the OM that she love him. I looked pretty intensively through all their contacts and NEVER found ILY in any of them. If I had, she wouldn't be here. I am really curious as to the reactions of your BS's to knowing that you told the AP that you "loved" him/her. I also am going to specifically ask the question, during my WW's polygraph, did you tell him you loved him. If she answers yes, I don't know if I can forgive that.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
bobf
Member
Member # 41412
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, January 17th (Friday)

My wife never said, "I love you" to her main AP. She used words indicating she cared deeply for him which is still painful.

Even if she had said she loved him, it would not be a deal breaker for me. I know a lot of the reasons why my wife ended up having the affair (yes, she made the 100% of the decision to cheat but that option seemed like a good idea due to the state of our marriage and I had a big part in creating that state), therefore, it is easier for me to forgive her.

Her's was an OEA with one main person with a lot of other stuff mixed in with others but she never slept with anyone so maybe my experience is different from yours Bdell.


Me: BH early 50s
Her: fWW late 40s (kmom2662)
7 Wk OEA, Skype, Cyber
DDay 10-4-13
Married 20+ years
Currently in R

Posts: 143 | Registered: Nov 2013
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, January 17th (Friday)

What is unforgivable to you Bdell, is forgivable to others.

I am really curious as to the reactions of your BS's to knowing that you told the AP that you "loved" him/her.
It hurt him. But he understood how and why I said it. I didn't love the AP. Like I stated earlier, it was currency. I gave him dollar bills, he gave me quarters. Whether it was sex, porn swapping, fantasy play, blowjobs, ILY, hand jobs, X-rated pictures, or whatever, it's all currency. We give and take whatever necessary to get what we want. That's how affairs work. I was just as broken as my AP. Just like every other wayward on the planet.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 11:42 AM, January 17th (Friday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6308 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Bobbi_sue
Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, January 17th (Friday)

I told the AP that I loved her when I was deep in the fog.
I don't believe in the "fog" and I believe that when somebody believes and feels they love someone, they love that someone. Also, as a BS I would find NO comfort whatsover in being told my H was "infaturated" rather than being in love with the OW.

Our relationship started out with infatuation and I would not trade those memories for anything in the world. I will not downplay the way it was for my H and I 19 years ago when we first stated dating.

When people talk of fog, I often think about one of my first serious boyfriends. I was infatuatued and certainly believed I was in love with him (therefore I was in love with him by my own definition). We were both single at the time (I was only 18) but the guy was a total ass and I could see that clearly within a few weeks after he dumped me. I could NEVER fall for someone remotely like him again! So was it real love or was I in some fog? I think it is silly to call it fog. Life is a journey and sometimes we grow and change our minds and our feelings about things and people change, for a large variety of reasons.

It is almost embarassing to admit I once loved that jerk, but the truth is I did. That is how I see it.

I read where for others it would be a deal breaker if your WS said "ILY" to the AP. I can understand that but my H admits he said it and we are still together. I will say that was the MOST hurtful thing for me to deal with. I guess the plus side for me is the fact that he admitted he did say this to her when he could have lied to me about it, gave validity to most everything else he told me. It was like my own personal little lie detector test. The fact he told the truth about this went a long way with me. He also did NOT have sex with her. For me, I believe saying ILY was closer to the deal breaker mark than having sex would have been, if one could choose the lesser of two evils (I know in plenty of cases there are both ILYs and sex).

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 11:58 AM, January 17th (Friday)]


Posts: 5760 | Registered: Apr 2006
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Aubrie, doesn't what you are saying "cheapen" it when you say it to your spouse? I mean, if it is only "currency" in the affair, how does that make it worth more to your BS?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Bobbi Sue, this issue seemed so important that I asked her directly about 5 minutes ago, and she began to cry and told me in no uncertain terms that she never, ever, told the om that she loved him. Not during sex, not in any phone conversation, at no time. I will still ask it during the polygraph.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Stillkicking
Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I never told my AP that I loved her, because that is a very powerful statement in my mind and I never really felt that for her. I think that if I had said it things would be a lot different today, maybe not.

My BS and her AP did say it to each, how often I don't know and I'm affraid to ask honestly. For me this hurts and is a major sticking point for as I feel like it sealed the deal and she truly did give her heart away to somebody else.

Let me make myself clear though, just because I didn't and she did, does not make what I did any less devistating to her, or any better at all.


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Aubrie , please understand that I'm not trying to gas you, but trying to learn. Your posts have helped me work out what was in my WS's mind and are very interesting.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I understand. Not scared of the question. Just out and about today.

For my AP, my "love" was currency. For every action, was an expectation of a response. I did A to get B. It was all about what Iiiii could get out of the deal.

For my H, I show my love and affection with no expectations. If he reciprocates, fine. If not, fine. I don''t expect him to give me a backrub because I left a love note on his dash. I don''t expect gifts in exchange for giving him oral. I say and show him I love him because quite simply....I do. Its hard to explain. I don''t attempt to manipulate the situation or the outcome. Does that make any sense?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6308 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Hrtbrken1
Member
Member # 33802
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, January 17th (Friday)

My FWH did say ILY to MOW. Why? She wanted to hear it. It kept her providing ego kibbles for him. If he told her he loved her he would still get a steady stream of sexting, nude pics, being told how awesome he was, and ego kibbles out the wazoo. Saying ILY was the easy way to get what he wanted. Did he love her? Nope. Does it hurt like hell? Oh, yes it does. He knew if he didn't say it back to her, those easy, good feelings would stop. My head understands all of this, it just takes a long time for the heart to catch up. In his mind it was easier to get unlimited attention from a desperate "friend" just by saying that, then to work on our own relationship. It was the same is Aubrie and her AP. Currency.


Me-BW
Him-WH
Together 16 years, married 10.
DDay 07/26/2011, 8 month EA/PA with friend of our family. Months of TT.
DDay#2 Early spring 2012, confirmed EA with another woman.

Posts: 144 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Sunny South
Hrtbrken1
Member
Member # 33802
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, January 17th (Friday)

*As Aubrie*

Gah, can't spell today!

Aubrie, you explained it perfectly. That was exactly how he saw it. With us, there isn't any of that. Never has been. But with MOW, she wanted that in lurv fantasy, she wanted to be head over heels. So he gave that to her. He paid for her services by telling her ILY. She paid for his with sex.


Me-BW
Him-WH
Together 16 years, married 10.
DDay 07/26/2011, 8 month EA/PA with friend of our family. Months of TT.
DDay#2 Early spring 2012, confirmed EA with another woman.

Posts: 144 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Sunny South
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 1:12 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Bdell,

Please ask your questions on the BS Questions for WS's thread in the ICR forum to avoid t/jing this thread.

Bobbi_sue,

While you may not believe in the fog, this is hardly the forum to dismiss what WS's are experiencing and working through. And since you aren't WS, you really don't have any experience with foggy thinking and the dynamics behind it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:12 PM, January 17th (Friday)]


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Hrtbrken1
Member
Member # 33802
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I want to know what was happening in me that I could feel that way about the AP. Or any insights on what I was feeling.

Somethingremorse, even though my husband knew he didn't actually love his AP, it took a lot of therapy to start unraveling the "why's". It's over 2 years out, and he still goes on a regular basis. He always will. So keep up with it, and you will find your why's. You're making a great start. Good luck


Me-BW
Him-WH
Together 16 years, married 10.
DDay 07/26/2011, 8 month EA/PA with friend of our family. Months of TT.
DDay#2 Early spring 2012, confirmed EA with another woman.

Posts: 144 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Sunny South
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Bobbi_sue,

While you may not believe in the fog, this is hardly the forum to dismiss what WS's are experiencing and working through. And since you aren't WS, you really don't have any experience with foggy thinking and the dynamics behind it.

x2!!! THANK YOU!!!


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5977 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
seenow
Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Thank you waywards! I didn't understand the "currency" of those words and was really hurt my WS said them to her. My definition and use of those words means something very different and I have not said them to him since Dday in part because he said them to her. "What is love to you?" I ask.

We may have a worthwhile discussion tonight.


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 296 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, January 17th (Friday)

My husband told two of his AP's that he loved them, AP#2 who was his LTA (strictly PA) of 2 1/2 years and AP#3 who was an EA/PA (no sex) of a couple months.

AP#2 his reasons were, he said it because she said it and wanted him to say it. She kept expecting him to. He did it because it was what she wanted to hear, and it kept her readily available for sex. He had no emotional attachment to her, he did not love her.

AP#3 he was becoming emotionally attached to when I found out about it. She said it first and he reciprocated. He has said that though he there were emotions involved, it was based in fantasy and infatuation. He did not truly love her. He loved the feeling of the chase. As soon as he'd slept with her, he probably would have detached emotionally.

It crushed me to know he felt and meant it at the time, even while foggy, that he had "love" feelings towards AP#3. However, I do know it was nothing compared to our love, the reality based love.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I told xOM I loved him. It was currency. It meant nothing. It's hard to understand but it was what it was at the time.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5977 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, January 17th (Friday)

When people talk of fog, I often think about one of my first serious boyfriends. I was infatuatued and certainly believed I was in love with him (therefore I was in love with him by my own definition). We were both single at the time (I was only 18) but the guy was a total ass and I could see that clearly within a few weeks after he dumped me. I could NEVER fall for someone remotely like him again! So was it real love or was I in some fog? I think it is silly to call it fog. Life is a journey and sometimes we grow and change our minds and our feelings about things and people change, for a large variety of reasons.

I think the fog goes beyond the infatuation that most of us feel when we fall in love -- it is also a byproduct of the secrecy and the vacuum that an affair takes place in. There are brain chemicals rushing around, usually a lack of sleep, and a lot of secrecy. Most waywards relate to being in a fog once they emerge from it, so (gently) it really doesn't matter so much if you as BS don't "believe in it."

Also, there is an addictive element to most affairs that I don't think you can compare to regular falling in love. I have fallen in love, and wanted to be with that person all the time, etc., but I did not have a compulsion to be around them that led me to engage in risky, self-destructive behavior. An affair, by nature, is risky, destructive and self-destructive. You can no more compare an affair to falling in love in a real relationship than you can compare taking a car for a test drive, and hijacking a car at gunpoint. They are both driving a car, but inherently different, in my opinion.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 2:48 PM, January 17th (Friday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2063 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
BrokenheartedD
New Member
Member # 41737
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, January 17th (Friday)

My H had EA, and I found FB messages where he expressed how much he loved AP numerous times. It hurt and still hurts. I dont know how to get over that. He says that he didnt love her. So what do I believe? To me ILY are very powerful words, and was supposed to be shared between both of us only. He wrote poems to her, and never for me. In his letters he said that he knew it was wrong but he doesnt regret to have these feelings. One cannot imagine what I feel and what I should do to get over. Do you think he really loved her or was he in a fog?

Posts: 12 | Registered: Dec 2013
somethingremorse
Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Thank you all for the discussion. It helps.

I saw the similarities in Bobbi_Sue's remark. My relationship with AP was more like a HS girlfriend. We talked and had a physical relationship. She made me happy when we interacted, which I compartmentalize from real life. I guess I said ILY (so much easier to write) in the same way I did when I was 17. When I was in that compartment, I felt that infatuation. I'd like to think I have matured from a teenager, but I have proven that isn't quite true.

That doesn't mean it wasn't a horrible thing. I just want to understand what was going on in my head. I know love isn't just the time between when you go to the bar and when you get home. It's the partnership through the ups and downs and the vast stretches of middle in our lives.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 629 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
BrokenheartedD
New Member
Member # 41737
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Somethingremorse,

I am trying to understand my H. Did you truly love ur AP or do you love your wife ? My H says that he didnt love her , that he just said to her . He says she was a challenge and he needed to say to get her attention. I just want to hear another WS or mens' opinion on that.


Posts: 12 | Registered: Dec 2013
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 3:38 PM, January 17th (Friday)

BrokenheartedD...

Please ask your questions on the BS Questions for WS's thread in the ICR forum.

Thank you.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
mindbody
Member
Member # 27941
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I am horified with the person I was leading up to and during my A.

I think this is important because your state of mind might have readied and primed you for:

I told the AP that I loved her.

When you are feeling depressed and needy, this understanding EAP can seem magical. I think it's clear you were caught up in the EA:

Even before our A, we were close.

I don't know the answer, but why were you moving towards your BW SIL, instead of your wife?

I think I was being honest --i.e., I wasn't just saying what she wanted to hear.

JMO:
I believe we are capable of feeling healthy and
unhealthy love. Affair love is not healthy and is flawed in so many ways. Saying ILY under those circumstances and dark choices is never healthy love.

We love close, good, friends, not to be confused
with love we should have for our S/SO. During
your A, you never considered that your AP was not a friend in the true sense of the word. Saying ILY strengthened a false bond and made the A and the AP more important and significant.

None of this may apply to you. I believe it's only a small part of what happened in WSO's A. The ILY's served a purpose and made the A more acceptable and passionate. He wanted to think he loved AP because it made him feel better about what he was doing and destroying.


Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2010
Topic Posts: 27