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User Topic: Squeezing the relationship to death
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, January 17th (Friday)

I'm separated from my BS and going through an immense amount of emotions as a result. This is the time for her to have a healing space, which I've agreed to, is desperately needed after what I've done, AND which is clearly helping as well.

But while the logical side of my brain says "this is the best path forward" the emotional side says "go FIGHT for your wife!". Tell her you love her, bring her flowers and gifts, write her messages, on and on the list goes of everything I want to do to win my wife back.

And then I think of Lenny in "Of Mice and Men". Remember him? He loved petting little animals more than anything. Which was all fine until he became stressed out and confused and found himself accidentally squeezing the things he loved to death.

This is me, the WS in a separation who's not allowed to contact his wife. I'm stressed and confused and all I want to do is squeeze my relationship - hold onto it TIGHTER THAN EVER BEFORE.

But if I do that, I will squeeze it to death. I have already seen the pain I caused my wife. It's the worst pain I've seen in my life and contacting her only makes it worse. I can't do that.

So I step back - for now - and I get obsessive about respecting her boundaries. So that at some point in the future, maybe this year or next year or whenever, I MIGHT have a chance to talk with her again.


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, January 17th (Friday)

Praying,

I can relate to where you're at right now. I think your analogy is a good one.

Fighting for your relationship, in my opinion, does not necessarily always mean desperately clutching at it in a death grip. In some cases there is value in stepping back, putting the other person's need for space before our need to keep them in our grasp, and focusing on our own work so that we can become safe to be with---because if we don't do that, true R would never happen anyway.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, January 17th (Friday)

I love this comment

Fighting for your relationship, in my opinion, does not necessarily always mean desperately clutching at it

The fighting I have to do now, as my Priest put it, 'separates the men from the boys'. It's not fighting for MY needs..it's fighting for HERS.


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
1bigidiot79
Member
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, January 17th (Friday)

It's not fighting for MY needs..it's fighting for HERS.
Repeat this about 1,000 times and when you are through do it again. It's funny that I am telling someone to do this because it was only a couple of months ago I was EXACTLY where you were at. I would go to my wife sobbing, text her super emotional messages several times a day and as you say squeeze the life out of what little we had left in our relationship.

BUT, I am no longer doing that. Has anything really changed between us? Not really. But I finally came to my senses and realized that was not what she needed. This does not mean you still don't need to let her know you care about her and that you are working on yourself for the betterment of the marriage. You can be reassuring without being suffocating. You can show empathy and remorse without making it all about yourself.

Keep reading here and just take it one day at a time. The MOST IMPORTANT thing I have learned since I found this site is the truth that if I want to save my marriage I have to fix myself first. Unfortunately, that is not a promise that my marriage will be saved but it does mean I will have done everything in my power to try to save it and I will be a healthier and hopefully happier person in the long run because of it.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 154 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I have followed your thread and I hope you are open to an alternative opinion. Essentially your wife is torturing you; like pulling the legs off a spider - beautiful revenge for your betrayal. She knows you will persist in trying to woo her back; until the end of time apparently, so until she sees you turn away she will simply continue with this torture. Her capacity for seeking revenge may be quite high, so when is enough enough?

You are cut off from your children which is hardly in their interests; evicted from your home and living a miserable, sexless, solitary life in an apartment. Its time to ask for a deadline concerning when you can return to your family; she doesn't have to be intimate with you, but she has no right to turn you out of your home and out of contact with your children. Especially the latter.

Time to define a date for return and is she is unhappy with that then she can leave. Maybe exchange residences.
If she indulges in verbal or physical abuse then maybe its time to file and end this peculiar sadism.


Posts: 1692 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
1bigidiot79
Member
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I have followed your thread and I hope you are open to an alternative opinion. Essentially your wife is torturing you; like pulling the legs off a spider - beautiful revenge for your betrayal. She knows you will persist in trying to woo her back; until the end of time apparently, so until she sees you turn away she will simply continue with this torture. Her capacity for seeking revenge may be quite high, so when is enough enough?
You are cut off from your children which is hardly in their interests; evicted from your home and living a miserable, sexless, solitary life in an apartment. Its time to ask for a deadline concerning when you can return to your family; she doesn't have to be intimate with you, but she has no right to turn you out of your home and out of contact with your children. Especially the latter.

Time to define a date for return and is she is unhappy with that then she can leave. Maybe exchange residences.
If she indulges in verbal or physical abuse then maybe its time to file and end this peculiar sadism.

Am I missing something? After reading Praying's profile this was a 5 year affair and the DDay was just this past October? For you to say that his BW is torturing him seems ridiculous.

I think Praying realizes this and that he is making strides toward doing the things needed to save his marriage. I am a wayward and feel like this opinion is way off base. I can't imagine what the BS's reading this must be thinking!


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 154 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I have to agree with Bigidiot on this one. There is no ill-intent on the part of my wife at all. She is in pure survival mode from the pain I CAUSED HER and everything is still so raw.

Asking me to leave the house was one of the hardest things she has ever had to do BECAUSE of the kids. Everyone needs a father and my three boys are no different. To that extent, we have agreed a schedule when I'm with them. It's not great, but it is what it is for right now.

This won't last forever and I'm guessing as we get through Jan and Feb we'll figure out where to go from there - but she has the lead in that discussion.


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Wow, seriously OK now? 5 year LTA, recent dday this fall...and you think she is torturing him? Err...no. Many BS's choose to separate. She set boundaries to feel safe after having her world blow up in her face. She is at least offering him MC while enforcing boundaries.

He's not living in his home as a direct result of his actions, that's a consequence. He's not living on the street.

He still sees his children, frequently from what I gather. She hasn't forbidden contact from them, he is not cut off from them.

Miserable, solitary, sexless life is a consequence of his choices. Its not torture. She had no right to kick him out? Really? How many people here have done exactly that, and now its torture?


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I stand by my comments; in this case the BW is going overboard. Forgive and reconcile, or divorce. Two choices to make; just make one of them, not dragging the whole thing out in an orgy of punishment and revenge.

There's supposed to be a cheating rate of about 50% in the USA judging by statistics. Imagine if every BS put their waywards through this upheaval including separation. In fact one of the things I have read the most on SI is that separation is not exactly an aid to reconciliation. Its not easy to sort out relationship problems if you don't live together. Its so easy to drift apart and get used to being a single parent and then meet someone else......


Posts: 1692 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, January 17th (Friday)

I kind of agree with OKnow on this one.
Not the whole 'orgy of punishment and revenge' aspect, but the 'make a decision' part.

Seems to me a BS has two choices after Dday.

Stay together (not divorcing) and work towards reconciliation.
Doesn't mean you have to reconcile, the BS or WS at anytime, can decide to end it.

Or it's a deal breaker and you seperate on your way to divorce.

Seems to me that this particular situation is all backwards.

Her insistence there be no contact and then setting up formal child visitation indicates the decision has been made.

I am sorry, Prayingforhope.

My advice is give her exactly what she has asked for, go dark.
Let her experience what it will be like for you to be totally out of her life.
She just may change her mind and want to attempt reconciliation.


[This message edited by SlowUptake at 9:35 PM, January 17th (Friday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 367 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Many people advocate here to not make any final decisions for at least a year, once the trauma and shock and anger have somewhat subsided. Her dday was three months ago. She's still in a world of pain and shock. At 3 months I could barely get out of bed or eat. Forcing her to make a decision at three months out could be disastrous for everyone.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Okay and SlowUptake, while ultimately it becomes a decision for both of us to reconcile or divorce, it is simply impossible to take that decision now.

She is destroyed. The woman I love is destroyed beyond even my recognition and frankly, I'm not doing much better. The emotions are out of control on all sides at the 3 month mark and any decision taken now won't be a real decision.

I can assure you if I was to force this and give her an ultimatum, she would most certainly choose divorce just out of a need for safety. What other choice would she have today when she HATES me for what I've done to our family?

This is a fluid and volatile situation with three beautiful children right in the middle. No one is rushing to any decisions right now.

In a month, 2 months, this will all be different again, but this is really one day at a time with no pressure. The time to heal is her timeline and the very least I can do, if I really REALLY love this woman, is let her take the time to make one of the most important decisions of her life and the lives of her children...

The good news is I can use the time to heal myself. I am in trauma as well and have only become to crack the surface on my problems through IC and my support program. When the time comes, I ALSO have to agree to reconcile and I equally don't want to make a kneejerk, pannicky decision to rebuild our relationship that I'm incapable of maintaining for the long haul.

Time is on everyone's side right now and thank God I married a woman smart enough to know good decisions aren't made when emotions are running hot....


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

I think you misunderstood.

I am not saying a decision to divorce or reconcile is required now.

The general consensus to wait a year to make a final decision is wise.

What I am saying is that separating with no contact and that she has set up formal visitation is not leaving options open, these are not the actions of someone waiting to make final a decision.

No one is rushing to any decisions right now

That is your perspective only, your BS may not share it.
Again, I feel the decision has been made, she's just not telling you while she gets her 'ducks in a row'.

It's a very common bit of advice given to BS's in the General & JFO forums.

I hope I'm wrong.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 8:51 AM, January 18th (Saturday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 367 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Itstoohard
Member
Member # 37629
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Praying I have to think you are doing what you feel is right for your BS. As a BS and being on SI I think we all grieve differently. There may be something to the thought that living apart is harder to R but again everyone is different. Stay with SI Praying and the people here will help you get thru this.


BS 64
fWH 64
PA 22 yrs ago
Started as EA for 2 yrs then ONS CORRECTION Started as an EA for 8 years
Trustismyissue

Posts: 165 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: US
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Thanks Slowuptake, I get your point now. Good to know the 1 year decision timeframe makes sense to everyone.

You may be absolutely right about my BS. Who knows, maybe she is just working behind the scenes to end this chapter, but either way - healing space or getting her ducks in a row - it wouldn't change my approach.

And you're 100% right about the separation closing off options. All I asked for in MC was a conversation - not R or anything close to it - but she said it was still too early for her.

Time will tell but I hope your wrong, even though the pragmatic side of me knows you could be right...ugg.


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

healing space or getting her ducks in a row - it wouldn't change my approach.

That's growth right there. Make yourself a better human being for yourself, regardless of the outcome of your marriage.
Well done you.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 367 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

What I am saying is that separating with no contact and formal visitation is not leaving options open, these are not the actions of someone waiting to make final a decision.

^^It doesn't matter what you did to her, for how long and how devastating the betrayals were - unless you were violent, dangerous, threatening or at risk of harming your children there is zero reason for you to be cut off from them.

Even at the height of my white hot rage I never once considered cutting XWS out of my girls lives out of vengeance. Concern about his alcohol/drug abuse and mental stability? Yes. Not revenge. Not out of any care or concern for him but out of care and concern for my little girls. I would do it to him in a heartbeat any day of the week. I would never do it to them.

Using ones children to exact revenge is so damaging to them. Far more damaging than any infidelity could ever be, IMO.

I urge you to think long and hard about what you do now. Whether or not your M makes it through this is unknown and not something you have control over. Whether or not you want to be in your children's lives is not an unknown quantity and it is something you do need to have some control over.

She has a right to be angry. She has a right to want revenge/vengeance. She has a right to decide that this is a dealbreaker for her. She has a right to never speak to you again. She has a right to divorce you and never look back.

She does not have a right to cut you off from your kids nor them from you no matter how terrible your betrayal was (UNLESS you pose a danger to them). Full stop.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5441 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Unless I'm missing something, I thought Praying saw his kids daily or almost daily for a certain amount of time, and on weekends too.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

What I am saying is that separating with no contact and formal visitation is not leaving options open

Sorry my bad, should be:-
"What I am saying is that separating with no contact and that she has set up formal visitation is not leaving options open"

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 8:52 AM, January 18th (Saturday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 367 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

Unless I'm missing something, I thought Praying saw his kids daily or almost daily for a certain amount of time, and on weekends too.

If that is the case then my post was completely off base. My concern wasn't about her manoeuvring or getting her ducks in a row legally - it was about your kids.

You could exert your rights to access the house and you could force temp custody orders ASAP but...

healing space or getting her ducks in a row - it wouldn't change my approach.

^^THIS suggests you've thought about the possibility that this is the end and you're at peace with how you're conducting yourself now whether or not it results in a chance of R.

There will absolutely come a time where someone needs to say 'shit or get off the pot' but for me that is not 3m out. I refused to make any concrete decisions during those first few months because I was still in shock/disbelief/abject terror and struggling to get through the next minute, the next hour, the next day. The fact that he tried to push me to have those discussions let alone make decisions pretty much a week out from DD and beyond was an act of cruelty I will not soon forget.

In hindsight I can see that he may have had his own shock/fears and was just trying to protect himself. I still think the complete lack of empathy was cruel.

Use this time to work on yourself. Get yourself healthy so that when the time comes you're armed with some crucial skills that will help you navigate this road whatever the outcome is.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5441 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
SpotlessMind
Member
Member # 41775
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, January 18th (Saturday)

((((Praying))))

I've been reading your posts and wanted to say that I think you've made some incredible personal progress. I'm sorry for your pain; this must be so incredibly difficult. I would imagine your wife is struggling too.

Have you considered writing your letters to her in a journal, either a physical one or online? That way, you could get all those emotions out, and if things do change (and I really hope that you get your chance at R), you could ask her at some future point if she'd like to have them?

Hang in there. No matter what, all this personal growth is a positive change that shows a lot of strength of character, and is a positive change that you take with you into the future, regardless of the ultimate outcome of this relationship.


fWS/BS--me
BH/WH--him
Married: 12 yrs
D-Day: October
Kids: yes

Posts: 277 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Where am I?
SometimesItHurts
New Member
Member # 42097
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, January 18th (Saturday)

This is my first post, I felt compelled to jump in on Spotless Minds' post. As a BS, I think what SpotlessMind recommended (the journal of some sort) is a truly sincere, thoughtful and powerful gift to give your BS. It's one I would have deeply appreciated. That allows her open access to your love and emotions at there height, once she is ready to receive them. IMO, a beautiful thing!

Posts: 4 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Texaa
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, January 18th (Saturday)

Wow, everyone, thank you for the incredible input, guidance, opinions and just general reactions...getting through this life I'm living today, this horror I created for my wife and family, is only doable because of this community. I joined over the holidays when I had no where else to go and it continues to get me through each day. Amazing.

Onto to more pragmatic things.

Samantha is spot on, I have very reasonable access to the kids. My BS is not messing around on that front at all and WILL NOT put them in the middle of this. We are working so hard to keep their lives as untouched as possible through this and it's the one thing we agree on 100% when nothing else adds up.

For the record, this is what I get:

1 breakfast on Wed. 1 dinner on Thurs and ALL DAY Saturday and Sunday. Obviously it's not anything like living with them and I miss putting them to bed, but I'm letting my BS call the shots since it's her space I'm trying to protect (she also has been good about adding an extra dinner here and there when she knows she'll be out). The side benefit of this is it also helps my BS at some level because it gives her basically the entire weekend to just focus on her. She's been alone for a long time with me on the road AND in the A, so she can take as many weekends to herself as she needs.

With regards to the journal, I keep one and my wife has access since she has access to my laptop (Our agreement is I bring my laptop to the house every Sat morning for her review). So if she wants to read my journal or check the porn-blocker, website tracker she put on the machine, she can.

This part I don't really understand emotionally from a BS POV, just what I read, but sometimes she reads everything to the final detail and sometimes she needs to step away. I think it's been 2 weeks since she even checked my laptop, but it's there if she is interested or ready.

[This message edited by Prayingforhope at 12:55 PM, January 18th (Saturday)]


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
Topic Posts: 23