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Wayward Side
User Topic: Why are affairs so prevalent?
Marriedman2013
New Member
Member # 39254
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, January 19th (Sunday)

I do not post much but read a ton on here and other sites. I know there is no easy answer to this question but why are affairs so prevalent? Is there a common underlying characteristic that waywards share? Is it a tweaked chromosome within our DNA, that makes some people more susceptible to addiction or obessive behavior. I know there are no absolutes in life, but the prevelance of infidelity in our society and others suggets there has to be some shared tendancies, personalites, etc. I dont know and am just asking a question.

I think for the analytical person that I am, i need to know what the underlying cause of affairs might be. I am not looking for an excuse for my behavior, i am trying to understand and fix who I am so that this doesnt happen again. Without understanding and knowledge what may have led me down this road, then i think change can't really happen.

For some background, I was in a off/on 6yr LTA affair that ended in 2013. I have gone NC multiple times and have failed. I am in therapy. I have been married for 23 years with 2 teenage sons.


Posts: 21 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Midwest
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, January 19th (Sunday)

BS here. Great question.

I think that we see so many affairs because life is boring. Sorry, but that's it. We are all capable of making errors in judgement. We are all capable of deceit, to anyone. We've all done it. We may have had an A, or lied about how much money was spent, or maybe withhold information about something. We all make excuses and justify it, but in the end it's usually about not wanting to deal with any repercussions for doing something we shouldn't have done.

First, taking a spouse or LTSO for granted is easy. They are always there. They are just a part of you. Second, that 'sparks fly' feeling tends to leave, and if it's not nurtured, it goes very deep into hiding. We all love that feeling. Affairs give that feeling.

So, a person in an A convinces themselves that it isn't that bad. They 'rewrite' the marriage to justify the A, because they want that feeling, and they are so used to their spouse, they can't imagine the spouse not being there. So the cheat. The lies flow. It all seems 'ok' because what the BS doesn't know won't hurt them, the WS just wants some fun and excitement, and who's getting hurt right?

Then DDay hits. The BS may leave. The real damage is out. The WS cannot believe it was them that did this. How? How did they become 'that' person? Where did this all go wrong?

That's how I see it anyway. I could be very very wrong. I'm just basing it off of what my fWH says, and what I've read for several years on the subject.

I would, however, LOVE some counter opinions on this!

Thanks!!


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1738 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
dogg
New Member
Member # 41995
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, January 19th (Sunday)

So, a person in an A convinces themselves that it isn't that bad. They 'rewrite' the marriage to justify the A, because they want that feeling, and they are so used to their spouse, they can't imagine the spouse not being there. So the cheat. The lies flow. It all seems 'ok' because what the BS doesn't know won't hurt them, the WS just wants some fun and excitement, and who's getting hurt right?

This is sooo true. My A was so much fun. It was new and exciting. It was almost like an adrenaline high. My AP desired me sexually, my W didn't at the time. I'm hoping that will change. It did seem okay at the time. Now that D DAy had happened I realize that it wasn't at all okay. I now despise my AP.


If I could turn back time.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Jan 2014
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

I know there are no absolutes in life, but the prevelance of infidelity in our society and others suggets there has to be some shared tendancies, personalites, etc.

All affairs are unique, but I have found that many WS's do share common patterns and traits. The most prevalent of which is poor personal boundaries; meaning the person was able to betray their own personal core and moral beliefs (for example infidelity, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.). A person with strong personal boundaries and convictions would not allow this to happen.

People are complex and life throws many obstacles in our path. When we are faced with a situation that we feel will bring us happiness and/or avoid some kind of suffering we often make poor choices. This is where our personal boundaries should kick-in to guide us on what is right or wrong.

We all make the best decisions we can given our wisdom at the time. The fact that you failed NC so many times says a lot about yourself and how much you are struggling. This is a strong indicator you are suffering emotionally (i.e. you're somehow unsatisfied with your current situation) and believe your happiness depends on your extra-marital relationship. In my opinion, you need to address the root of your emotional suffering and determine why your life feels unfulfilled.

Happiness comes from within. This may sound clichéd, but it is true.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 1:31 PM, January 19th (Sunday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5624 | Registered: Aug 2007
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

All affairs are unique,

Respectfully, I disagree with this. The nitty gritty details are different, but at the core there are only a handful of affairs. The exit, the midlife crisis, the flat out cheater, etc. There really are only a few types of affairs.

This is what I've read from several experts on the subject. Yes, I believe it, so it's my opinion too, but I didn't make this theory up.

Maybe we aren't discussing the same base point?


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1738 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Marriedman2013
New Member
Member # 39254
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

Harden my heart, i agree that there is an emotional hole that i am trying to fill. I have spent alot of time in therapy exploring this but still dont feel like I have found the answer. My moral beliefs and personal boundaries were strong up to this point in life when I met this person. Crossing the "line" had never been a thought I ever considered. I am still digging for what my core really is.

Painful past, i dont know that i fully agree that affairs happen because life is boring. I had a very active, busy life when my affair began, so i think its deeper than that for me.


Posts: 21 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Midwest
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

Hi MM2013,

I didn't mean boring in a 'stay home always, do nothing but TV' sense. I meant that 'spark', that feeling you get from a new love interest, is not there after time with a spouse. THAT is boring in the 'romance' department.

Like you said, you never thought about it, until you met this person. That 'spark' took over. I'm not saying you specifically. I think many people would say they never thought of cheating until they were cheating. I believe in many cases, thats why. That 'spark' is pretty enticing.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1738 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Prayingforhope
Member
Member # 41801
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

There is a psychoanalytic perspective that a lot of affairs are driven by men trying to cover up deeper emotional problems. A lot of this can stem from childhood trauma, abuse, etc. but the core is the same - the man is not emotionally "above water" on their own and in lieu of facing their own trauma, fears or depression, they enter into an affair.

The affair, at first, gets the man to emotional balance where they feel 'normal', but like any artificial addictive, if you're not dealing with the underlying issues, the effect wears off.

I was also in an LTA for 6 years, on and off, and I can tell you from a LOT of IC that this accounted for a good portion of my "reason why". I may be unique in this, but since DDay I initiated NC with the OW and haven't thought about her once. She just wasn't important to me at any deep level, and she was just one more defense I was using to hide from from my real problems.

I think there is a lot to be said from PainfulPast's explanation and I assume a lot of A do occur for just that reason, but it doesn't explain my situation. For that I'm digging into some dark places...


WH 41
BS 40
D-Day Oct 28th, 2013
Together 18 years
Three amazing boys 12, 9 & 6
Praying for hope daily

Posts: 260 | Registered: Dec 2013
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

The nitty gritty details are different

That is what I meant by unique.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5624 | Registered: Aug 2007
Marriedman2013
New Member
Member # 39254
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

Prayingforhope, I am tend to lean to this thought as well, but there was no abuse or trauma in my childhood. My childhood was good, but what was lacking was the physical or emotional expression of love from my parents. I knew/know that my parents loved me, it just really isnt expressed in my family, even to this day. How much of this has played a role in my affair?

Did my marriage fill this emotional hole for awhile and when that no longer did, i needed another source. I think that my emotional maturity and self worth were never really fully developed because there was no input of that from home. I know that healthly self worth and emotional maturity needs to be found within ourselves, i just clearly havent found it yet.


Posts: 21 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Midwest
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

In our case...

Poor boundaries (see behavior prior to A and/or other family members too)
Poor coping skills when things got tough
Conflict Avoider - didn't avoid that in the end did he?!

Sadly, I honestly think we will see more A's/drug and alcohol use in future generations due to poor boundary/coping skills.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2111 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
totalheartbreak
Member
Member # 41589
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

BS here - so this will color my response.

The most prevalent of which is poor personal boundaries; meaning the person was able to betray their own personal core and moral beliefs (for example infidelity, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.). A person with strong personal boundaries and convictions would not allow this to happen.

I have such difficulty understanding this.
I mean, if the boundaries existed, they couldn't/wouldn't be crossed.
I think it'd be more genuine if it was said that these people had no boundaries, or didn't understand what boundaries were.
My WW says her behavior violated every fiber of her being... Really?
Because that didn't stop her... so I don't believe it.
I recovered everything, there wasn't an ounce of regret or hesitation.. so 'violated every fiber of her being' seems like more lip service.

Please note, at this point, I am questioning everything. I do not understand, believe or accept anything at face value anymore... likewise, my opinion on boundaries will probably change in the next day or two.


Me: BH (30s)
Wayflost: WW (30s)
"Ever notice those that advocate anything for 'happiness' are perennially unhappy?"

Posts: 121 | Registered: Dec 2013
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

My WW says her behavior violated every fiber of her being... Really?

That means your WW knew and understood what she was doing was inappropriate and damaging to herself, her marriage and to others; however, she was still unable to stop herself from having the affair. This is one of the main reasons affairs are so prevalent. For some, the allure of the affair can be so strong it can overpower (or even alter) their sense of right and wrong.

Please note, at this point, I am questioning everything. I do not understand, believe or accept anything at face value anymore...

Don't ever lose that, even for non-infidelity related things. Always balance faith with wisdom.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 4:54 PM, January 19th (Sunday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5624 | Registered: Aug 2007
2B1again
New Member
Member # 40703
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

As another person in long term married and monogamous loving union for over 24 years before I committed adultery and engaged in a 4yr LTA, I also would like to understand the answer to this question. I agree that affairs come down to a handful of categories. However it is the LTA's with repeated NC's or On and Offs that are most baffling. I think it is fairly easy to come to some consensus of why's. The rush, boundaries, arrogance, self centeredness, etc. These reasons or labels are the title of their respective chapters; it is the text within these chapters that is so hard to discover and explain.
How could I have been so arrogant?, How could I have been lacking personal boundaries? How could I have lied all those years? It is a daunting task to understand and one that humankind has yet to fully grasp and evolve from. It seems that our human condition has to evolve individually and not collectively.


me- WH 51
her-BS 49
DS(26) DD(23)
Married 27 years
LTA 4yrs
DD1 1/2010
False R
DD2 8/2013

Posts: 15 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: NW US
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

I think for the analytical person that I am, i need to know what the underlying cause of affairs might be.
Gently and respectfully, no. You don't need to know this. You need to know the underlying cause of your affair.

I wonder: Is pondering the foibles of humanity while you're still standing in the wreckage of your individual behavior--distracting yourself from the real work at hand---wise?

For now, I'd wager your BS really isn't concerned with why affairs are so prevalent. She is reeling from yours.

As are you. And I would imagine that feels awful. But while it may be soothing to distance yourself from your actions with analysis of societal ills, it likely will not effect the changes that are required now.

Even if R is not in the cards, it's worthwhile to figure yourself out. The rest of humankind can wait a while.

(And really--I *get* your analytical impulse--I do. I just know how destructive it can be.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 9:34 AM, January 20th (Monday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8337 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
918Mama
Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, January 19th (Sunday)

I think you've gotten some great answers here. Especially bad boundaries and poor coping skills. I'm going to add a few more in.

There's this concept of HALT. When you're about to make a decision to do something, you should stop and ask yourself: am I Hungry? Angry? Lonely? Tired? Those are often the root causes of bad choices. Which ties back to poor coping skills and if you have bad boundaries on top of it? Well hello...now all you need is someone else unhealthy to act out with and there you go.

Second, we are sick. Our brains are sick. Abuse, FOO issues, exposure to pornography at a young age, circumstances beyond our control...they've all added to this epidemic of illness. Our brains take the abuse and suffer. Without the proper balance of chemicals in our brains, we are forced to self medicate. Some people have a beer. Some smoke a cigarette. Some get on Facebook and connect with a past love.

We are all a little broken friend. We need to find out why and invest in our health to keep from making these bad choices again.

I remember my therapist telling me once "the safest person is the one in recovery." I get it now. I want to be with people who know exactly how unsafe they were and are open about their recovery, instead of ones who have no idea how sick they really are.

Keep working through it...


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 499 | Registered: Dec 2012
pointofnoreturn
Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 12:11 AM, January 20th (Monday)

(DISREGARD THIS SINCE I'M WRONG)

I guess I'd look at this from a scientific perspective. If you look at us in our caveman days, we weren't programmed to be monogamous. Fidelity took a back seat if it meant a man could get as many women pregnant as possible.

However, over time, I believe as we developed civilizations, monogamy became popular because well, we're a social species and well, fucking another man's partner doesn't do well for the survival of your tribe.

I think people cheat is because there is still a very primal part of our brain. If you look at the "wild children", those who grew up with little to no social interaction from neglectful homes, they literally act like animals acting on pure instinct. It is my belief therefore we act "human" due to social conditioning.

Since we all have this primal instinct, everyone is prone to lying, cheating, stealing, murder, etc. Though some are more prone in certain aspects than others. How or why an affair ever occurs is a little different depending on the situation, but I think a vast majority of them can be boiled down to that selfish primal thinking.

I guess thinking of it this way makes me realize that I'm human. I've done the most horrible thing ever, but maybe this dumb ape can learn to be better than that.

[This message edited by pointofnoreturn at 3:12 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 185 | Registered: Oct 2013
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 2:24 AM, January 20th (Monday)

There is a psychoanalytic perspective that a lot of affairs are driven by men trying to cover up deeper emotional problems. A lot of this can stem from childhood trauma, abuse, etc. but the core is the same - the man is not emotionally "above water" on their own and in lieu of facing their own trauma, fears or depression, they enter into an affair.

The affair, at first, gets the man to emotional balance where they feel 'normal', but like any artificial addictive, if you're not dealing with the underlying issues, the effect wears off.


Or maybe we're just a bunch of self-centered, entitled asshats.

I guess I'd look at this from a scientific perspective. If you look at us in our caveman days, we weren't programmed to be monogamous. Fidelity took a back seat if it meant a man could get as many women pregnant as possible.

However, over time, I believe as we developed civilizations, monogamy became popular because well, we're a social species and well, fucking another man's partner doesn't do well for the survival of your tribe.

Really? Scientific?
Actually getting as many women pregnant as possible by one male in a tribal unit is anti-survival, the increase of birth defects caused by inbreeding would quickly put an end to the tribe.

I believe as we developed civilizations, monogamy became popular

Because the system is reasonable effective in advancing the species.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 5:15 AM, January 20th (Monday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 364 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
pointofnoreturn
Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, January 20th (Monday)

Look back then. Successful births like today were low, and it was even lower for a child to survive the first few years without dying of some illness. If you're up against those odds, your ultimate goal as a man would be to spread your seed. No where did I mention inbreeding at all.

Think back to how wars were handled. One of the rewards of winning a war was taking the women. These women were of different tribes. Obviously they will take them as their own and make them baby incubators.

Our primal nature is truly misogynistic, but that's what happened before we developed these morals and compassion.


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 185 | Registered: Oct 2013
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, January 20th (Monday)

Our primal nature is truly misogynistic, but that's what happened before we developed these morals and compassion.

Not sure you are saying what you mean to say here. But if you are, then I'd say the evidence on this is not conclusive, or perhaps even significant.

And re: "Selfish, primal thinking" -- IDK. Certainly there are elements of lower level thinking (or, flat out choosing not to think) in many affairs, but your rationalization seems to lend an air of legitimacy to affairs that I am not sure they warrant. ("My primal nature made me do it!") That sounds so much more forgivable than, "I was a . . ." (ETA: Took out less flattering representation here. Not sure if it is ok for Wayward forum.)

[This message edited by bionicgal at 9:46 AM, January 20th (Monday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1754 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, January 20th (Monday)

If you look at us in our caveman days, we weren't programmed to be monogamous.

Only problem is, we are not cavemen and it is not caveman days. In general, humans are serially monogamous. In other words, we tend to pair up with one mate at a time. If a mate dies or leaves, we are able to pair up with a new one. This is unlike some birds which are monogamous with one mate for life.

In those caveman days, a human child would have been very difficult to raise to a level where it could survive independently. Therefore, the chances of survival increases significantly when both parents contribute to raising the child. This is why humans prefer to pair bond; even today.

your ultimate goal as a man would be to spread your seed.

Menz got "the need to seed" and just can't control themselves! Sorry, not buying it. It also does not explain why affairs are also prevalent among women.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 11:28 AM, January 20th (Monday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5624 | Registered: Aug 2007
pointofnoreturn
Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, January 20th (Monday)

Because women want to get pregnant?

Anyways, there's a major case of missing the point here, and maybe it's just that I'm not quite explaining things. So let me start over.

Despite being one of the most advanced animals on earth, we are still just that: animals. We still have primal instincts: the need of food and water, the need to seek shelter, the desire to reproduce, etc. these are normal, natural things.

Generally, things like stealing is wrong, right? But what if one of your primal needs weren't being met? If you're homeless and starving, I'm sure stealing a loaf of bread from the baker is all that more tempting than if you were well fed. Is stealing still wrong? Of course.

The problem is that Waywards have a need that's unmet; it can be as simple as lack of sexual needs being met, or as complex as not being emotionally nurtured. Now is this the betrayed's fault? NO!

The reason is while yes these are needs and that they should be met, the wayward in question took the wrong path. If say I was lacking physical touch from BBF, the proper way to go about it is to talk to him about it. If my needs still aren't met, the honorable thing to do is break it off so I can get my needs met elsewhere. However, given that we're all here we or our spouses chose the opposite of that.

Am I making any sense now? I'm saying we have primal desires that need to be met. There's no if ands or buts. It just is. That doesn't excuse going about meeting those needs with infidelity, but that some people choose that even if its the wrong answer.

We may not be cavemen anymore, but those urges are still there.


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 185 | Registered: Oct 2013
naivewife
Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 20th (Monday)

Technology anyone? Not sure I've seen a single A discussed here that did not surround the use of cell phones, texting, secret emails, chatrooms, etc. You can meet an AP and destroy your marriage all at the click of a few buttons. The slippery slope is becoming more and more disguised. It's so much easier to flirt, say inappropriate things, make bold statements when you're just typing it into a little machine that then spits out exactly what you want to hear, because the AP has just an easy a time and is getting her rocks off being told the stuff she's being told. By the time you finally get face to face with the AP it's like you're "long lost loves" rather than the total strangers you actually are. Technology has made it so easy. You can cheat on your spouse while sitting right in front of them telling them that you love them, while you're playing with your children, while sitting in a business meeting. Hell, I would never be as vocal, bold, and open if you were all sitting in my living room. I've got the safety of the screen, and so does, dare I say, every single effing A that happens today.


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, January 20th (Monday)

I think people cheat is because there is still a very primal part of our brain

I'm not going to agree on any level that cheaters are less evolved than non-cheaters. Some primal instinct may cause someone to want sex with someone else on first sight, or second, but we are far more advanced than that.

Also, if this were the reason, there would never be a female that cheated.

No offense, but this sounds a bit like a cop out.

I've often wondered why some people say this as a reason for infidelity, but never for rape. It would seem that biology and a man wanting to 'spread his seed' would lend itself more to rape than to infidelity. Just my opinion here, but wouldn't taking sex be more primal?


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1738 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
pointofnoreturn
Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, January 20th (Monday)

I'll take "putting words in my mouth" for $400, please.

Please cite where I said that cheaters are "less evolved". No. Where. I am at the point where I'm starting to become a bit frustrated in this. Am I just this bad at explaining things, or are people just not getting it?

I'll just reiterate: We all have needs, a wayward has an A because needs aren't (or are perceived to not be) met. The Wayward could have chosen to have these needs met without infidelity, but chose not to. The desire to have needs met isn't wrong, but how it's gone about is. Affairs are prevalent because dumb apes make dumb choices. Some are just simply better at making better choices than others when it comes to these things.

I almost want to just ask people to drop it all together because I guess my problem here is rambling on WAAAYYY too much to where people don't see the point I'm even trying to make.

Also, more than likely, a lot of sex way back when was rape. Again, tribe A takes over tribe B. The women of tribe B are the spoils of war. I'm certain they weren't just having panties flying off for these men.

[This message edited by pointofnoreturn at 8:19 PM, January 20th (Monday)]


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 185 | Registered: Oct 2013
toasted22
New Member
Member # 38954
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, January 20th (Monday)

People cheat because they look for love in all the wrong places.

Posts: 45 | Registered: Apr 2013
salty_lt2
New Member
Member # 33744
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, January 20th (Monday)

I almost want to just ask people to drop it all together because I guess my problem here is rambling on WAAAYYY too much to where people don't see the point I'm even trying to make.

No, the problem is that you're trying to use an argument that equates to "uncontrollable desires" to justify or minimize the frequencies of affairs. That's not going to win you many friends here.

Comparing the "wrongness" of infidelity to the "wrongness" of trying to survive by stealing food is not quite the same thing.

Sure- humans are selfish creatures. Almost everything we do is geared towards making ourselves feel better- even some of our most selfless decisions can make us feel good. That doesn't mean that selfish nature should negate "right" vs "wrong."

I had an affair. It felt good, it helped me ignore all of the other problems in my life at the time, but in the end, I knew it was wrong. I used my own free will to decide to engage in this behavior, and Darwin did not put a gun to my head to make me do it. End of story.


Posts: 33 | Registered: Oct 2011
pointofnoreturn
Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, January 20th (Monday)

That's it. I give up. That's NOT what I intended to be seen from that at all. I guess I AM just really that bad at explaining things. I'm done here.


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 185 | Registered: Oct 2013
toasted22
New Member
Member # 38954
Default  Posted: 1:47 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

I made a comment earlier that I think people have affairs because they are looking for love in the wrong places.
I was in no way mocking anyone by this comment.

I do believe though that for some that they look for love in places they should not be (outside of marriage).

My BS has challenged me about this to which I am thankful because it it make me think about the sensitivity of what I post here.


Posts: 45 | Registered: Apr 2013
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 3:00 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

I guess I AM just really that bad at explaining things. I'm done here.

Or you maintain a premise that has neither logic nor evidence to support it, you hate having that pointed out to you, you do not have the maturity to entertain the thought you may actually be wrong, so your going to stamp your feet and take your bat & ball and go home.

You may want to examine that attitude to see whether it is a contributing factor to your wayward thinking.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 3:01 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 364 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
pointofnoreturn
Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 3:19 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

People are just "no ur wrong" about my first post, and completely disregard the second. That's my issue. I'm sorry I derailed the entire topic, so please, I ask that it be dropped now. I mean, we can argue on the basis if I'm right or wrong about the origins of man and whatnot, but people are missing out on what I'm trying to say. So I become frustrated in myself more than I am at the people here.

I have issues with expressing my thoughts sometimes, and I don't know if it's "wayward thinking", but more along the lines of "social fuck up to the point where even internet conversations give me anxiety". Not trying to gain sympathy points there, but that's the cold hard truth about me.

I guess from now on I'll have to think and rewrite and think about my posts thrice times because typing something and proofreading isn't enough. Again, I'm sorry...it's just bad on my part.

Please. I'm sorry.


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 185 | Registered: Oct 2013
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 4:57 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

I mean, we can argue on the basis if I'm right or wrong about the origins of man and whatnot, but people are missing out on what I'm trying to say.

Gently, we do get what you're saying, we just disagree with it.
I don't think it's a case of you not being able to get your thoughts out, I think it might be you want to be heard and you confuse not being heard with not being agreed with.

What do think, is that a possibility?

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 7:27 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 364 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
somethingremorse
Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

However it is the LTA's with repeated NC's or On and Offs that are most baffling.

This is the easiest part of it for me to understand. I never fixed myself. So when I went a month maintaining appropriate contact, the defects that allowed me to start the A were always there. All it took was a dip in the road, and BAM I was right back in.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 385 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
pointofnoreturn
Member
Member # 41034
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

No one took quotes from my second post where I explained myself. Instead, I was attacked for my first, despite trying to remain calm and explain what I was trying to get at in the first place. So when I'm saying people aren't getting it or I'm bad at explaining things, it's because that post was ignored. People just seemed to have...shut off?

Even when I explained that I didn't mean for it to be a cop out and went into detail why it can't be a cop out, I was still being attacked for like that was my intention?

If you disagree with my explanation, fine, but I don't appreciate words being put in my mouth when no, that's not what I meant at all.


Me- WGF 22
Him- BBF 21
Ddays:
August 2011
September 26th, 2013

"A lesson is learned. Life is. Simply. There is no Death. There is no Before. There is no After. All is in Flux. Simply."


Posts: 185 | Registered: Oct 2013
LetMeRollIt
Member
Member # 41189
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Have to chime in on the whole evolution of monogamy thing…

A theory that gets a lot of respect is…

Human babies are the weakest mammals there are. Need care for years before they can be independent. Very difficult for a cave person single parent.

Mating amongst all other mammals occurs "from the rear". Humans are the only mammals whose mammary glands stay large when not lactating. This creates an erogenous zone on the front of a female. Causing sex to occur more often face to face. Causing greater intimacy and bonding between breeders. Creating a "family" unit that will have much higher odds of offspring survival.

Those of us currently alive are the descendants of "monogamous" cave people.

[This message edited by LetMeRollIt at 9:52 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


D day- June 30, 2013
Me - BS
Married 15 years
5 year old child
Attempting R as of Oct. 1 2013

"Cry, and let your soul be cleansed of a love that turned to carnage." - Christy Brown


Posts: 99 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Canada
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 10:13 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

pointofnoreturn...

No one attacked you. Just because some don't agree with you doesn't make it an attack.

Message boards provide a place for discussion...not everyone is cut from the same cord. Relax.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196515 | Registered: May 2002
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Why are affairs so prevalent?

I think one reason that affairs are so prevalent is that we are are bombarded with affairs in all of our media. In so many television shows and movies affairs become part of the story and often they are presented in a form that is not a realistic version of what an affair really is. Try going to the grocery store and while in the checkout lane not look at a story in a magazine talking about a celebrity having an affair. Our leaders who you would think would have a higher standard have affairs as much or more so than average. All these factors influence us and tell us that maybe an affair can be a good thing or everybody is doing it so its not that big of a deal. I would never count it as a reason for someone having an affair but when you constantly get bombarded by these factors every single day they have an effect.

All affairs are unique

Respectfully, I disagree with this. The nitty gritty details are different, but at the core there are only a handful of affairs. The exit, the midlife crisis, the flat out cheater, etc. There really are only a few types of affairs.

I disagree, I really think we too often try to put these affairs in too few categories to figure out what to do when the possibility for the various types are so much more. I am sure it makes for good book writting to try to catergorize affairs because you are not having a real conversation with your audience who is looking for advice. For my own situation, I dont think I have talked with many who have had to deal with an affair like my WWs. In addition, my WWs two affairs are very different themselves.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 449 | Registered: Nov 2012
Topic Posts: 37