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Reconciliation
User Topic: the importance of healing for the BS
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

my husband and I are on such different pages on this. I told him I wasn't most angry about his affairs, I was angry that he didn't really look at what I did - stare it in the face - nor did he look at what he did after his first affair.
I asked why he didn't make therapy a priority, reading, marriage encounters.He replied: why should I punish myself over something YOU did.

I said the BS has the responsibility to heal. I have to heal and I do this by reading, going to IC, posting on infidelity forums and he asked why I was punishing myself doing this?!

I said you had to know that having two affairs certainly wasn't the right way to heal. He said knows he shouldn't have done that but that he was still healing from what I did.

He is angry we have wasted so much money and time going to therapy. He said I have no idea what it's like to have your wife give yourself to someone else after you've kept your vows for 25 years. I agreed I did not know how this would feel. Yet, he takes full responsibility for what he did.

See, this just doesnt' sit right with me. It feels like he thinks he just couldn't help himself...


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
deena04
Member
Member # 41741
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

You have to heal in the ways that work and are healthy for you. Reading these, IC, and taking care of yourself are necessities for you. You have a right to heal, so please keep trying to do so. Would he benefit from using the WS forum perhaps to see that others can relate?


Me BS mid-late 30s
Him WS knocking on 40 (lovemywife4ever)
blended family with lots of kiddos
together 5 years, married 8/13
D day 12/1/13
WH ONS had been 4/12
Getting ME back and moving to HAPPY - whatever that means
I want out!

Posts: 1075 | Registered: Dec 2013
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Do you mean that he has the responsibility to figure out why he has his own affair? Or the responsibility to heal from the pain of yours? I''m confused on that.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2175 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Do you mean that he has the responsibility to figure out why he has his own affair? Or the responsibility to heal from the pain of yours? I'm confused on that.

both. When it was evident what he was doing wasn't working... I guess he just reached for the coping mechanism that felt good. Again.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Would he benefit from using the WS forum perhaps to see that others can relate?

because reading about it would be reminding himself what happened and that's punishing to him.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)

both. When it was evident what he was doing wasn't working... I guess he just reached for the coping mechanism that felt good. Again
Gotcha. I think that he definitely needs to work on his coping mechanisms as a WS, because they're in no way healthy going forward.

As far as healing as a BS....I don't know, maybe he feels even? I mean, a LOT of people have RAs and say that it fucked things up even worse because it didn't alleviate the pain and just added guilt on top of it....but everyone is built differently and maybe he had his RA(s), took account of everything, and just felt that things were even in his mind. I don't imagine that's how I (or most people) function, but I guess it's possible.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2175 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Maybe you can show him my thoughts...
He said I have no idea what it's like to have your wife give yourself to someone else after you've kept your vows for 25 years.

You're certainly not going to have any idea of what he feels unless he tells you - and telling it to an IC may be easier and just as healing. I don't think he's facing his feelings as a BS, and I think that's the biggest obstacle between you. (JMO, of course.)

The way for him to get his strength back is to face those feelings, process them, realize they're just feelings, and then move on to the healing he has to do as a WS.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:57 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10383 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

thanks Sisoon - by the way, your PM box is full!

yes, I've dissected this and he still blames me. There is no way he can call himself a wayward without the word "but" after it.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

that's punishing to him.

That's really the crux; what he sees as punishing the rest of the world sees as healing. That's a pretty big difference in perspective.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6549 | Registered: Jan 2011
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

That's really the crux; what he sees as punishing the rest of the world sees as healing. That's a pretty big difference in perspective.

I know! WTH?


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

My wife and I differ on the healing steps too.

My wife and I disagree on the benefits of SI.....I am active, she is passive.

My wife and I disagree on How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair book should be applied.....I say all of it, she picked and chose.

My point is that the pain is similiar, maybe identical, in nature for a BS. The processing of that pain, however, is diverse.

I have my "rathers" on how this process looks....my wife has hers.

What I am finding, at 17 months out, is that these "rathers" are lining up more and more.....though we are not identical, I will say we are getting "more similar".

Kind of an illusive response to your post....but I don't have this figured out either.

One thing I do know that has helped me is this simple quote.

"My biggest problem to my marriage is.....me."

What this does for me is to put me in complete control of my actions....I no longer am tied to what my wife does or does not do for me.

Seems like you both are continuing to wrestle with that nuance.....and I still do to, sometimes. But that was back when I was pushing hard to R our M. I have learned through LOTS of practice to ...... be still.

10 being full speed....I am probably at a 6 now. Upon my DD I was a 10!.


God help us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

So wait....

I said you had to know that having two affairs certainly wasn't the right way to heal. He said knows he shouldn't have done that but that he was still healing from what I did.

How exactly was he healing? By having two A's?


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2462 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Honey, IIRC you were raped the first time you "cheated" on your husband. That is not cheating. That is rape. Does he understand that?

If I have you confused with someone else, I am so sorry.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7697 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

LA - he claims he wasn't ready - to heal, to look at what both of us did, I don't know. We went to a marriage encounter - an expensive one - between his affairs. He said he wasn't ready for that either.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Honey, IIRC you were raped the first time you "cheated" on your husband. That is not cheating. That is rape. Does he understand that?
If I have you confused with someone else, I am so sorry.

that has sometimes been referred to as my 2nd affair, by him. I exercised poor boundaries - I got drunk at a hotel with friends and had my own room. He is very angry about that. I understand.

[This message edited by rachelc at 2:44 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

He has never healed from your A. Period. I still wonder if it wasn't a deal breaker for him, but he can't make the move.

We are all responsible for healing our own selves, IMO.

He had his 2 RA ONS's. It probably just added to the load he carries.

You can't carry the load by yourself. He still needs to heal from his BS status and his WS status.

IMO I see you ( I don't know him) on a hampster wheel....going around and around and around.

At some point you have to stop the crazies and fix what hurts.

The only one you can fix is you.

I would concentrate on myself. Otherwise you will be searching, wondering, waiting, hoping all the while standing still....kwim?

Let go of his issues and pick up just yours. He can either follow suit or not, but you cannot spend your life waiting for him to be ready.

(((hugs)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3846 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Karma, I feel that I have worked on myself. I'm a safe person to be with. I have clarified values, etc.
If he hasn't healed from what I did (how do I know?) then we won't have an intimate marriage.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

If he hasn't healed from what I did (how do I know?) then we won't have an intimate marriage.

What has he done to heal? I see you in the same place rach, so something is stuck or I am not seeing clearly.

I feel like he hasn't really moved any mountains, am I wrong?

I had to heal and dig for a long, long time as a BS.

You have had to deal with your A, his 2 and your sexual assault.

I think there must be more to uncover. But I am not you, only you know the truth you carry in your heart.

I am not judging your healing, hell no, but I think you are in turmoil.

Is he the cause of it all?

And if that answer is yes, how long is he allowed to sit in limbo?

Just questions .... no right or wrong answers.

And again, I am on the outside looking in and could be off in my perception.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3846 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

I feel like he hasn't really moved any mountains, am I wrong?


he has not. His mountain is staying with me after I cheated.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

His mountain is staying with me after I cheated.

Put his mountain down...you can't move it.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3846 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
still-living
Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

Rachel''s,
I totally agee with you on this. WS or BS, regardless of who we are, we are placed at a crossroad of pain and we are seeking to improve ourselves. The correct path is facing the pain, processing it, not running with more of the same. Healing comes from within not from acting out and collecting. So my question would be does be believe it yet? That''s what I would be looking for rather than focusing in his RAs. Keep talking. Wishing you peace.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

If he hasn't healed from what I did (how do I know?) then we won't have an intimate marriage.

Did you have an intimate marriage before the 3 affairs (and the rape)?

He replied: why should I punish myself over something YOU did. I said the BS has the responsibility to heal. I have to heal and I do this by reading, going to IC, posting on infidelity forums and he asked why I was punishing myself doing this?!

Because it sounds like what you perceive as communicating and connecting ... he perceives as punishment.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

So my question would be does be believe it yet? That's what I would be looking for rather than focusing in his RAs.

yes I believe he does.. that that was the wrong way to go. It took a while.

Ah, the focus on the RA - that is MY issue - I still can't figure out if I can stay married to someone who did this twice, with no confession. It nearly destroyed me. I dont' want him to necessarily have the "healed me." Wow, I just realized this.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

ladies first - not really. We had NEVER had a fight before the affairs. Not that that means intimacy but we were conflict avoiders and i think that means running away from intimacy.

Yes, I get the communication thing. I just have never heard a BS refer to healing as punishment. I don't think I've ever run across that here. Waywards, yes, who don't want to read on SI, go to IC, etc.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)

IMO your husband does not view your a as a deal breaker. I am sorry he thinks you had two affairs still.

IC helped me a considerable amount in many ways. One way it did was that it absolutely helped me understand that my wife's actions don't define me.... My actions do.

It appears your husband is honestly confused...not being sarcastic....he really could be confused . I was. I was making and getting ready to make some very destructive choices and was talking myself into it being my wife's "fault".

This is when I read the quote I referenced earlier.....I was loosing track (confused) that, while my wife had made choices that hurt me, I still had complete control over my actions. Therefore I was solely responsible for those consequences.

Your husband is a WS. RA are still affairs....consequences are the same.....and I submit it adds exponentially to the confusion and pain.

God help us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4029 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)

He replied: why should I punish myself over something YOU did.

So introspection and self analysis are punishing for him. While I see that as common avoidance, it's not healthy.

I said you had to know that having two affairs certainly wasn't the right way to heal. He said knows he shouldn't have done that but that he was still healing from what I did.

Other peoples behavior should not dictate ones own moral choices. He screwed up there as did you originally.

I'm not a mad hatter. My W's A was a one way street. When we sat down to review needs based on the book and our MC's advice, I past pre-A with flying colors. My W was the one that was messed up. I don't accept 50% of the M stuff prior to the A because even that was not true. It was her selfishness and inability to listen effectively that caused most of our problems - period. I say this not to toot my own horn, but to give you a frame of reference that I don't get the whole mad hatter thing.

That said, you asked me to chime in :)

From looking at your amount of posts and your starting date we are talking about 3 years out and some change. The two of you have seen the headshrinkers and my guess is talked the deals to death.

Put his mountain down...you can't move it.

That's really the crux; what he sees as punishing the rest of the world sees as healing. That's a pretty big difference in perspective.

These two things are the same. His mountain. His problems. His life. He is not obligated to so shit. While I would argue that the "rest of the world" does not see therapy and introspection as healing, it is healthy and IMO needed to be a healthy person. Your H does not do that very well.

Here is the rub. Is it good enough for you? If you are looking for that special ever after I have a little surprise for you, it is as much of a fantasy as A's are. It's in your head. Your H messed up (and won't fully resolve that with himself) You messed up and are really trying to resolve that for yourself. Accept who he is and heal yourself. Decide what you want out of life and then see if he fits into it. Let go of that hurt you have because it is gonna kill you. Let it go. Stop trying to un-F the donkey or even analyse it.

My two cent is this. Turn inward. That does not mean turn away from your H. It just means drop the fantasy that the two of you will have some fabulous loving relationship. Read Act with Love and Full Catastrophe Living - by yourself. Try it for a month - go on a rachelc journey. Then take another look at him and see how he is.

I just think you are beating a horse that does not want to run or can't. Stop evaluating what you want to do based on your H's behavior. Start evaluating that for yourself only.

I came to terms with a few simple truths. I liked my life. My W is OK. It is better for me to stay in my M given all the variables. That is based on where we both are and what we have committed to in our family. Given all that, I chart my own coarse and make plans with her and the family as well. Are we close, yes. It ebbs and flows. Do I view us special. Nope. I dropped that bad habit a few years back. People aren't special and neither are couples. They just are.

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)

My W is OK. It is better for me to stay in my M given all the variables. That is based on where we both are and what we have committed to in our family. Given all that, I chart my own coarse and make plans with her and the family as well. Are we close, yes. It ebbs and flows. Do I view us special. Nope. I dropped that bad habit a few years back. People aren't special and neither are couples. They just are.

wow, this is depressing....

I have a great life, it's exactly the way I want it - I'm not sure WHY I'm so unhappy, other than the obvious.

I've read those books - I've done that for a while, although not for a month. He loves it. He has a nice wife, no conflict, etc.

I need to reread chapter 3 on staying or going and the 4 choices I have.

[This message edited by rachelc at 10:56 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5283 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)

Here is the rub. Is it good enough for you? If you are looking for that special ever after I have a little surprise for you, it is as much of a fantasy as A's are. It's in your head. Your H messed up (and won't fully resolve that with himself) You messed up and are really trying to resolve that for yourself. Accept who he is and heal yourself. Decide what you want out of life and then see if he fits into it. Let go of that hurt you have because it is gonna kill you. Let it go. Stop trying to un-F the donkey or even analyse it.


Rachel, if you see Wert's other comment as depressing, focus on this one. This is a solid paragraph of sound advice.

Rachel, I asked you this months ago...what do YOU want? What do you want? Go get it! But like Wert says - figure it out and see if H fits in.

I sometimes think you already know. Hugs to you.
LA


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2462 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)

wow, this is depressing....

Pain and loss are the best teachers...

I guess I have found the entire experience, the journey since my W's A to be very enlightening. Yes, I loss what I thought I had, but I found a resilience and a view of the world that I did not have before. I enjoy things more knowing they are fleeting. I revel in the fact that my W and I are not special. I revel in the fact that we all are in our own way. It is more than me. Being a witness to my own life and the people in it I see tragedy not as something to be avoided but instead as something that is unavoidable and to be learned from.

You need to write your own story rachelc. Be your own hero. Bring your husband a long for the ride of his life...your life...

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
Topic Posts: 29