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User Topic: Why all the lies? What can I do to get over it?
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

I am just about a week out from finding out...things. I am sure not everything. I have, at least, discovered a definite pattern of lies.

I've had suspicions now for over 7 years, since I was pregnant with my son. I only found suggestive emails back then, nothing concrete. 2 years ago I discovered he had a secret bank account full of money. He'd only told me about borrowing $5,000 but the bank sent him a letter and when I opened it I found out he'd taken out a $15,000 line of credit. A $10,000 lie!

He bought me an engagement ring with half the money, "so you won't leave me" saying it had been his plan all along and that's why he couldn't tell me about it. We'd been married 11 years at that point.

Most recently I'd had those nagging little feelings again, and started looking through his phone and internet search history. I saw that he'd mapquested the directions from our house to a nearby strip club on a weekend that I'd been out of town with our kids. In the last year I found that every time he went out of town (almost every weekend for both work and pleasure reasons) he was visiting strip clubs. I confronted him about it but he only got more secretive - all while telling me that "we had a deal" - he'd tell me if he was at a stripclub and he wouldn't pay the dancers for anything extra.

I wasn't OK with it, but I figured he was going to go with or without telling me, I guess I'd rather he told me.

Last weekend, on the 31st, he was out on a snowmobiling trip with friends. He called multiple times that night to check in, told me where they were and where they were heading next. Around 11:15 he told me that they would be back to the truck in an hour and he would let me know he was coming home. That night he says he got in at 1:30am. He slept on the couch, which is highly unusual. He said he didn't want to wake me up.
I asked him point-blank if he had any confessions. He looked me straight in the eye and told me no. Then he asked if I had any.

The day went on and I truly believed that he hadn't done anything other than ride around with friends that night. He was acting strangely, though. Offering to go pick up the kids from their activities which is a task that usually falls to me. When he wasn't doing that he was moping on the couch or sleeping. Later that night I tried to get him to have sex with me but he flat out denied me. He said he was too tired. I was hurt, but I believed him. We went to bed.
The next day I felt it in my gut that something was off. I went down the stairs while he was sleeping and tore through EVERYTHING. His phone. His bag. His pockets. His wallet. I found an ATM receipt for $150 at 9:45 in a town about an hour away from where he told me he was at that time. He only had $40 left in his wallet. And then I found a pair of underwear in his trash can under his desk that he had obviously orgasmed in.
I confronted him, he proceeded to lie to my face for the next 3 hours. We shouted and ranted at each other but he swore up and down that nothing happened, it was just a "wet dream" etc. In that 3 hours it came out that he was no longer as attracted to me, but that it was a product of his hormones, nothing else. Finally, finally after 3 hours he came clean. He had been at a strip club the night before and a stripper had put her vag*na on top of his hand and humped it. He was concerned because he had an open wound from a job site on the knuckle that was inside her vagina. He was worried about diseases.
It was a painful day. He was remorseful and promised nothing else had happened. I gave him a list that he had to comply with: Dealbreakers were stripclubs and lying, I wanted access to the doctor's report and I wanted the password to his bank account. He agreed.He went to the doctor the next day, I went with him. The doctor told him there was no way any disease transmission had occurred. I felt like I could, after time, believe him and move on from this.
I still had questions, though.

The next day, he still hadn't given me the password to the account. I could tell he was holding back for a reason. He finally gave in late that night. The next morning the first thing I did was check his internet search history (by signing on to his google account, not by looking at his laptop). I saw that he searched the town where he had pulled the money from the ATM. He'd also searched for ways to delete ATM and bank transactions from his account, and if ATM time stamps were ever incorrect.

I started to shake and then I started to DIG.
I blew my cover and told him I knew all this stuff about him, but I didn't tell him how. He kept denying trying to hide anything from me. I told him when we got home that we'd check his internet history. He said fine. But when we got there, he had erased it all. It was all deleted. He knew there was nothing I could prove now.

Basically the rest of this past week has been a big blur. I printed phone records, bank records (both our joint account and his account) google searches and map searches. Many, many searches for stripclubs in our area and the areas where he was traveling to. But he swears he never went to one that I didn't know about. There are HUGE inconsistencies with his stories. There are MANY withdrawals from his account - $200 each time he's out of town - but he's still used our joint account to charge for gas, food, restaurants etc.

But he swears up and down that sometimes he just searches things and "thinks about" going but he never follows through. He had a problem with porn and stripclubs and that's the real reason he's not attracted to me, but since he's said that he's also taken it back and said it's not true, he doesn't have a "problem".

I'm just sick. When I'm alone all my insecurities come out, but when I'm with him it's just so easy to believe him.

Right now I'm just trying to do the math - between what he told me he spent at the last club he was at and the amount that he pulled from his account, plus what was left in his wallet and the other $80 that he said he still had left (he showed me)... it doesn't add up AT ALL.


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

More, sorry it's just so hard to get all the details straight. We had a plan to sit down and go over all the material so he could either come clean or explain it. I was really bracing for him to come clean on things. I told him I wouldn't leave him if he just told the truth. Nothing new was revealed. Just more lies, it seems. I'm sure he's confident that I can't prove anything, because I can't.

I had thought he would be nice about it since he knew I was having a hard time trusting him with all the lies he'd already told. But he was so defensive and mean, and really agitated and hyper. Even the next day when I brought him his cell phone to ask him why he got a text at 2:13am from someone not in his contacts list... he yelled at me that I said I wouldn't go through his things anymore (I never said that! I said I didn't WANT TO HAVE TO).

I just take this as another sign that he's hiding things from me.

He admits he painted a bad picture with the lying and the searching, mapquesting, etc. But it's all just so innocent. He was just searching "texting hookup apps" and Tinder for funsies! He never downloaded them or did anything about it. It was just curiosity! Or maybe he was "mad enough" at me to look it up but not mad enough to go through with it.
Of course it's all my fault he says I pulled away from him "months ago" and he told me about this.

yeah. I did pull away from him. Because of all the strip clubs and google searches.

:(

[This message edited by ClearEyes12 at 1:12 PM, February 3rd (Monday)]


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Yes, he is probably still lying--that defensiveness is a bad sign. I'm so sorry. He is trying to shift the blame to you but guess what--it's all on him! Focus on yourself and on your son, and, given how he is acting right now, you may want to have a consultation with a lawyer to find out your rights. He is being dishonest so try if you can to detach yourself from your desire to believe him when he is talking around in circles. Your gut is way more trustworthy than this guy.

By the way--your subject line has it all wrong! The onus is not on you to do something to get over it, but on him to give you what you need in order to rebuild trust.

[This message edited by norabird at 1:20 PM, February 3rd (Monday)]


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4190 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

We've been together 20 years. I can't even begin to understand how I could unravel myself from him.

Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

You're so right about the title of the thread. I guess what my real question is, how do I get over never knowing the truth? I honestly have no way of ever proving the things he's done. I only have my suspicions. He says my mind is running away with me. He said I'm good at digging up information but not good at putting it together.

Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

He is gaslighting you--there is a thread in general about this on I think the second page. You cannot let him sweep this under the rug. And you CAN unravel yourself from him if you need to. Believe that. You have a choice here to decide what you want. You don't have to choose to leave, or not right now, but it is an option. If you are swinging in the wind because you can't 'prove' anything...let me tell you, your gut is more accurate than any Private Investigator. There are keylogging programs you can install on the computer if you really need to see something concrete, but I think you know that he is feeding you lies and that you may sound crazy in your assertions when he starts attacking them, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. It only means he isn't treating you with the respect and honesty that should be at the center of a real partnership.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4190 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

He says he's so sorry... our kids are having a hard time right now because they can tell that we're not doing well. We are normally SO close. We've been together since we were kids ourselves. My daughter has been crying and asking if we're going to get a divorce. This caused him to go sit in the basement and cry. I found him there.

I don't know that he'll continue doing anything but I do know that he has done bad things in the past. Will I ever be able to get over it, not know what it was? I don't know if I should bother with a keylogger if I don't think he'll do it again?

I am so upset... I don't even know how to do a 180 (yes, I read the entire healing library). I just don't know what I'm doing and when I'm around him it just goes back to normal. It's when I'm at work or he's away from the house I start to panic and think about all the possibilities and money spent and lies.


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

My fWH and I were BfF for 20 yrs. Together for 14 now. This is not normal.

He most likely is a SA and that clearly effects your relationship. So at the most he needs IC and when he is well into that start MC.

He is lying...this is the normal crap they all use. Unfortunately the only way to get the truth is to leave him for a while or to really catch him in the act.

You can't get over this...it is just going to always be there and turn to bitterness and resentment for him.

Don't let him make you feel crazy...there is more to it.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

He says the only thing he is guilty of doing is being selfish. he says he was trying to hide the money so I wouldn't know how much he was spending on himself instead of the family. Now he wants to take us all on a vacation (we haven't been in 6 years) and finish the bathroom reno and all the things he should have been doing.

Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Just tell me this. Do I keep asking him to tell me the truth? Will he ever break down and tell me? What can I do to get it out of him?

Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Hi ClearEyes,
I do not think you will ever be "over it." It has been 4 years for me, and I am not even close. Infidelity becomes a part of your past experiences and changes you (or at least it changed me). I will never be the same, I am 100% convinced of that. Some of it for the better, some not so much.

It sounds to me like you need to delineate boundaries. Like NO STRIP CLUBS EVER!! I think that is entirely reasonable given the situation. Also no private slush fund (my husband also had one, ended up giving an ATM card to OW.... ). Draw your line in the sand. And there is no such thing as too long a marriage that it cannot end. Most importantly, your H needs to understand that the marriage MIGHT end. Otherwise, what motivation would he have to change his behavior? Probably not a whole lot.

This is such a long and painful journey. I wish you peace. Please look into the 180 and start to figure out what your requirements are. I might even consider a polygraph if I were you. You cannot R if you don't even have the full truth. Take care.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 385 | Registered: Feb 2013
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Trust your intuition.

Has there been other phone calls or texting after a decent hr from your phone logs?

Most likely he knows you are on to something and is trying to calm the waters for a bit.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

I was hoping someone would suggest a polygraph. I do think this is an issue I will press with him.
I need to know. I can't go on not knowing the truth.

hopefulmother - yes, there have been other calls/texts at inappropriate times. We went through all of his contacts. I only have the call records from September 2013. I have requested November and December be sent to me.

I forgot he also deleted all of his call and text records from December. He did this just two days ago, claiming he thought I had looked at them all. I did but I had just glanced, I didn't have a chance to really study or copy any of them down. He wanted a "clean slate" phone that he could hand over "at the end of the month" for me to look at each month. I was pissed :( He's never at fault, though, it's always a misunderstanding.

I have USCellular. Is there any way to get text records? I don't have those.

It's made more difficult by the nature of his side business. He buys and sells equipment and parts from eBay and Craigslist, so a lot of these numbers are legit business. I have tried following up on all of them but most are dead ends.


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Getting back to normal is really just rugsweeping. There is a saying here that sometimes you have to be willing to lose the M in order to save it. In other words, only when you detach and he sees there are possible consequences can change happen.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4190 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Logically, I understand that. But I still love him so much. I love our little life. I don't want to lost any part of it.

Have I done damage by letting him back in, even just a little? We spent the day as a family yesterday (I really needed to heal my little babies hearts - they have been so sad and stressed out!) We went ice skating with his brother's family and even hugged/kissed a few times. Later when I was in the shower he "peeked" in and me and I told him I was upset - that I wasn't ready for that yet and he had no right. But, we're speaking nicely to each other and hugging/kissing....

Do I need to stop that? Is there any way to go back and get any leverage at all?

Sorry that I am so desperate for all these answers. I am SO LOST.


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Oh ClearEyes,
The good thing about the 180 is that if you "fall off," you can get right back on! As part of the 180, I would eliminate any conversation except for child and finance related issues. Stop cooking for him, do not do his laundry, do not do the little niceties most of us do for our spouse. Stop all of it. And start focusing on yourself. Pick up an old hobby or start a new one. Start going out. When he asks where you are going, your answer is "out." When will you be back? "I don't know." Get dressed up with full makeup and go somewhere. Even if only to the mall to walk around a few hours or sit in the car and listen to music.

It sounds to me like you are in shock. I think when I was at the stage where you are, I was convinced my M was the best thing EVER and I had to do anything and everything to hang onto it. It took a very long time for me to face the realities that my M had huge, deep, cavernous flaws that needed to be addressed before it could continue. Some of them have been addressed, but not all (thus the reason for my incomplete healing after 4 yrs). I can imagine that a husband who frequents strip clubs and engages in disgusting behavior with God knows what kind of women is not an ideal husband. I do not mean to criticize him, but I am just stating a fact. Your feelings are important! You do not like him going to strip clubs, but yet you acquiesce and say as long as he tells you it is okay. It is NOT OKAY!! I did very similar things regarding my H's "friendship" with OW. I told him I wanted him to tell me when he went to her location for work. He almost always "forgot..."

Feel free to PM me if you need to talk or vent. I know how it feels, and now is the time to stand up for yourself. You deserve so much more than he has given you. Please take care of yourself.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 385 | Registered: Feb 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

My heart breaks for you. You must be in tremendous shock and pain. It is difficult for me to give you my 2 cents because I know exactly where you are right now, and I know you may not be ready to hear what you need to do.

I am going to bump a thread for you. It's about WS that is into prostitutes and anonymous encounters. It will tell you all the special considerations for this kind of cheating. I know right now you think it is just strippers...but the evidence you have submitted suggests otherwise. Many strippers are also prostitutes. And given the level of gaslighting he has done with phone and computer records, he probably has been utilizing anonymous hookup sources as well. Bare minimum, he was headed in this direction and is more than likely well implanted in it.

Short version, you will need to get STD testing and see a lawyer ASAP, regardless of what you eventually choose to do. And start looking for appropriate IC to support yourself during this time and what's coming, which will be even more traumatic than now.

To answer your original question, you may never know the full truth. You may have more DDays over the next few years, whether you to try R or not. He is not capable of coming clean at this time, or any time soon for that matter, and may not ever. If that is a deal breaker for you, that is ok. If it is not, it still a whopper to process.

Best of luck to you. Please keep posting. You will get good support here.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Jun 2011
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

First of all, sorry that you are here.

I need to know. I can't go on not knowing the truth.

Those are your words, and in my opinion, are the correct words. How do we ever rebuild trust, and a healthy relationship, when we don't trust the one that we are supposed to be the closest to?

ClearEyes, if you are not willing to accept the possibility of losing your marriage, and won't stand up to that pressure, then it is hard for you to help yourself. You will be in a perpetual game of "chicken", when your husband knows that you will be the first to back down. With that knowledge, he has very little chance of ever telling you the entire truth.

What he needs to understand, what he needs to know in his HEART, is that you WOULD leave the marriage if things stay the same. He needs to know that you need to trust your partner, and if you can not get that from him....

Then the ball is in his court. You will have made your demands loud and clear---you need to feel safe in your marriage. He has the ability to build that trust, but it only comes with honesty and hard work. That means that both of you will have to discuss things that are uncomfortable. If you are able to get to that point, things can improve. But if he stays on the current path, you have to ask yourself--"Am I willing to accept this for the rest of my life?"

You have to ask yourself what you are willing to accept. Personally, I wouldn't/couldn't stay in a relationship where I felt that my closest confidante did not have my best interests in mind.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 5:48 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2054 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
WarpSpeed
Member
Member # 32051
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

(((ClearEyes12)))

First, breathe.

What you are going through is mind numbingly dizzying. This person you have and want a life with is telling you one lie after another and it is painful and disorienting. It doesn't seem like it right now, but the world will stop spinning in time.

Take care of yourself. Try to eat, drink water and get what sleep you can. This is a long trip you've been forced into taking and you have to take care of yourself.

I only have my suspicions.

You've got more than that ClearEyes. You've got thousands of folks on this site that will tell you that what you are describing is far more than suspicions and is clearly a wandering spouse tossing one lie after another your way.

Folks here will help you work through this, but know that there are not any quick easy resolutions. Try to work with that knowledge so that you can try to let yourself regain some equillibrium.

Also, know that any of your research, questioning, digging or snooping is 100% justified and don't accept any guilt or remorse for working hard to discover what he ought to be telling you to help you to heal.

Either he is going to work with you by being honest, or you'll spend the rest of your marriage distrustful, uneasy and snooping or you'll end the marriage.

Those are pretty much the three options. Tell him option two is the only one not on the table. Mean it. And be prepared for a long road to recovery. BUT, know that you are strong and you will recover.

hang in there


Me: BS (51)
Her: fWW (50)
Married 27 years
Two sons in college
Empty closet and note on bed Jan 2010, She filed for D Mar 2010, D final May 2010, Actually had D-Day and found out why it all happened July 2010. Remarried on 23rd Anniv Aug 2010

Posts: 1494 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Dallas
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Can you access the records on-line? The phone records. Then, you will see if it is one person or One-night stands.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
hopingforhappy
Member
Member # 29288
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Listen to hathnofury and read everything that she suggests. She has experienced much and written extensively on SI, with great authority and clarity, on this topic. You could not get better guidance than hers.

((ClearEyes12))


Me--BW (56)
Him--FWH (53)--5yr. LTA--OW probably BPD
Married 20 years
DS-18, DD-15
Reconciling--but boy is it hard!

Posts: 1318 | Registered: Aug 2010
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Thank you for bumping. That thread is extremely helpful.

Would you guys mind coaching me through this a little more?

What do I do with the questions I still have? Every day a new detail comes to mind that doesn't fit the puzzle he's laid out. I've been just asking them. As part of the 180, should I stop doing that? Write them down and ask them later?

I am the most honest person. I feel like what I'm doing is being dishonest since posting here I've wanted to share with him the things I've learned, but the thread you bumped says not to, for a long while.
Also, do I tell him about the STD testing?

He wants to do a mini-vacation with our kids this weekend. Just an overnight hotel stay for all of us at an indoor waterpark. We do this quite frequently but since Dday he's been pushing this. I had agreed, but I am still very deep in the Fog. Now I'm wondering if this is a bad idea.

He has a trip planned for the end of the month. I have set these boundaries:

Dealbreakers:
Stripclubs, strippers, anything involving other women.
Lying, hiding, deleting, covering up, private browsers, changing passwords.
Total access to email, banks accounts, texts, phone calls, google searches, internet history, porn viewed, maps searched

I have added these:

No cash transactions (nothing over $20 bucks)
No overnight stays with the exception of the UP trip
Picture check ins

Is this good? He will be gone with friends for 3 days. It is an annual trip. He swore up and down that there are no strip clubs there. I googled and found 8 in the same location that he has stayed in the past. He said he never saw them and wouldn't go in them and will call me from the outside while his friends are inside. What's to stop him from going in after he calls me? How can I validate this?


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

The most helpful thing I have realized today is that I need to take time. I don't need to know everything right now. I already know I am hurt by just the things I have found out. He has already lied to me. I don't need to find out immediately how much more he has lied. I am missing admissions about actual sex acts with another person, but I should be operating on the assumption that there have been. I can take my time to find out. I have phone records from the past two months coming. I am buying a subscription to web site to track numbers (instead of me calling each and every number it doesn't help).


His remorse and sadness get to me. I am so weak. I love him so much, he is literally my best friend.


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Hi ClearEyes,
I would let him take the kids to the waterpark without you. I would stay home and do something nice for myself.

As far as his annual trip, sounds like his friends are not friends of the marriage. You know how they tell an alcoholic to only have sober friends? Your H needs to have friends who do not do strip clubs. My opinion. If strip clubs are a deal breaker, then so are friends who go to strip clubs. Does that make sense?

I like your list of dealbreakers. What will happen if he violates one or more of them? The thing about dealbreakers is that we must be prepared to enforce a violation. My H knew me very well, knew I was not prepared to enforce the dealbreaker, so he continued to carry on with OW. Only when I was seriously DONE, did he go no contact with OW. I had met with an attorney and was ready to walk away.

The fact that your H is focusing on all the family stuff is for HIMSELF once more. He wants to make sure that you will not leave him. He thinks he can eat cake, continue his disgusting behavior and still have an awesome wife and intact family life. I would blow that sucker out of the water, let him get a taste of being a weekend dad. Do NOT give him the reassurance of your company on the waterpark trip. Pull out the 180 and use it to start healing.

Praying for you. Take care.

E


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 385 | Registered: Feb 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Oh, where to begin. He says there are no strip clubs, wait there are but he's never been, wait if his buddies go he won't. Ayiyiyi. Gaslight much?

You want my honest opinion? He shouldn't go on any trips without you. ESPECIALLY boys only trips. Not on the heels of this. You will go bonkers. And if my suspicions are correct, it will only lead to more heartache. If he gives you any resistance on this at all, you have your answer. That is not remorse. I know you think you see remorse, but what you are seeing is regret. It will be clearer much later on. The only way I would see a benefit from him taking a trip like that is if you were planning on a PI to document legitimate proof for D.

As to whether you tell about the STD testing. I wouldn't. Because right now, it is just more opportunity for him to fill you with doubt. And a clean test does not mean he has been faithful. Believe it or not, he could have been with hundreds of prostitutes and anon encounters and you can be lucky enough to still be clean. I know this from experience. You need to go and get the tests, and get them again in six months, even if you don't have sex with him ever again.

Edith is absolutely right on all counts. He should not be with people who do not support the marriage now. He is suggesting the waterpark for himself, not you or your kiddos. He needs to see some hard consequences of his actions. And you need to focus entirely on yourself and what YOU need right now. He's not going to do anything YOU need for a long time. Just enough to make him feel justified. YOU take care of YOU.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Ok, I apologize as I may sound disjointed in my replies here. I am trying to do too many things at once. But I have to say this. I am SOOOO pissed for you right now. Here you have a man that has been busted for spending untold amounts of money on strippers and who knows what else, yet he feels entitled to go on a boys-only trip? I call bullshit. I would only let him go if you want his sorry ass out of your sight, AND you are getting a PI to trail him and document his philanderings.

I am so sorry. You deserve so much better than this. And you are hurting so badly it is tainting your clarity of vision. Here is a tip that can help. You are a mom. Imagine this was a man doing this to your daughter. What would you want her to do? To expect? What would you want the man to be doing for your daughter right now? What would you tell her? Then hold yourself to the same standard.

Hang in there hon. Get you some appropriate IC to guide you through this. I know you don't have enough info to tell if he's SA, and frankly it doesn't matter if he is or not. The impact of his actions on you as a spouse are the same. Traumatic as they come, and the hits will keep on coming. Go get you a CSAT therapist that helps spouses of SAs right now. Even if you found one today, it might take a month or more to get an appointment.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Ok, I apologize as I may sound disjointed in my replies here. I am trying to do too many things at once. But I have to say this. I am SOOOO pissed for you right now. Here you have a man that has been busted for spending untold amounts of money on strippers and who knows what else, yet he feels entitled to go on a boys-only trip? I call bullshit. I would only let him go if you want his sorry ass out of your sight, AND you are getting a PI to trail him and document his philanderings.

I am so sorry. You deserve so much better than this. And you are hurting so badly it is tainting your clarity of vision. Here is a tip that can help. You are a mom. Imagine this was a man doing this to your daughter. What would you want her to do? To expect? What would you want the man to be doing for your daughter right now? What would you tell her? Then hold yourself to the same standard.

Hang in there hon. Get you some appropriate IC to guide you through this. I know you don't have enough info to tell if he's SA, and frankly it doesn't matter if he is or not. The impact of his actions on you as a spouse are the same. Traumatic as they come, and the hits will keep on coming. Go get you a CSAT therapist that helps spouses of SAs right now. Even if you found one today, it might take a month or more to get an appointment.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Jun 2011
PRNDL
Member
Member # 41927
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Expect anything and everything. Trust your gut.

When my wife confessed it was all TT. Later on most if not all of my worse fears had cone true. It was 100 times worse than what she said.

Please protect yourself and be ready.

Sorry. Hugs.


BH: 35 (me)
WS: 30 / OM: 30
Son: 11
Affair: 1.5 year long 2012
ONS with stranger Feb 2013
D-day #1 March 2013
D-day #2 April 2013
D-day #3 Sept 2013
Affair continued.
Limbo 7 months
Moved out - 180D - NC
Divorced
She recently ended it with OM

Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Tampa Florida
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

I'll just second what hath said. I've been married 36 years and never saw this coming, really. It's traumatic on many levels so please do try to find a CSAT. Thing is, he is going to be able to convince you of all of these quirky "coincidences" because you want to believe it. To not believe it is unbearable.

He can tell you it won't happen again but, it will. If he is SA (and he certainly shows the signs) he won't be able to stop. Even if he wants to and know that it will bring terrible consequences he can't just stop. It is truly an addiction. Don't tell him anything about how you find out. It will only enable him so that he can hide better. This is not your best friend right now. It looks like him but, he is not in there. He is only looking out for himself so, as hard as it is, you can not trust him to have your back. You just can't. I can't tell you when but, I can tell you with all certainty that he will do it again so, get your guard up and protect yourself.

This family vacation is just his guilt playing on him. You can install a key logger which would give you a heads up next time he goes trolling or you can put a voice activated recorder in his car to record any conversations he is having while driving.

Craigslist was my H's main source of supply for the last few years. Go have a look at the casual encounters site. It's just so available. I never had a reason to look and, frankly, never knew it existed until my world exploded last year. I don't know how I missed it.

Keep posting and I promise you this. The information and support you will receive is GOLDEN. Take advantage of those here who have fought this battle and have the battle plan strategy. It's priceless!


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 747 | Registered: Apr 2013
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 11:56 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Honey, I know you feel like he is your best friend. I know you love him. But, he is not your friend at all. He is your enemy right now. He is driving you crazy, he is entitled, he is risk-seeking, he lies through his teeth, he has no empathy...that is all just to start with!!! Please please step back and see this. I know it hurts to have your faith in someone ripped away. It's an awful thing to experience. But you will be so much stronger and secure once you stop falling for his little remorse and sadness act. You deserve so much more. I agree with the other advice to not go on this weekend with your kids and him--he needs to see that he can't just pretend everything is okay.

((((Hugs))))


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4190 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:02 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)

Ok. Wow. This guy is capital T-rouble.

There is no true remorse in this situation yet. It *may* come later, and it may not. Right now your WH is in *deflect & misdirect* mode. His mode of *coping* is emotionally toxic to you. The guy is swimming in so much shit right now that I'm surprised he's still able to draw breath.

Your discovery has just blown up his *secret* world.....and he's not likely to be happy about that. He keeps *love-bombing* you as a way to placate you and try to get things back to *normal* so that he can *carry on* with life as he knows it. But trust me, you do NOT want this life that he *knows*.

Re-read this statement you made about the *boys* trip (and I'm assuming that you recounted it correctly):
He swore up and down that there are no strip clubs there.
I googled and found 8 in the same location that he has stayed in the past.
He said he never saw them and wouldn't go in them and will call me from the outside while his friends are inside.

He begins by denying that any strip clubs exist in that neck of the woods.
Then, when you prove him wrong, he *plays dumb*.
But THEN he fucks up and switches to *present* tense. Not only has he just done an *assumption* on you, but he has round-aboutly told you that they go to the strip clubs when they are up there.
(And the fact that he's trying to get you to believe that he's going to spend hours hanging out in the parking lot of a strip club while his buddies are inside is insulting and quite stupid.)

So. First order of business. He can keep *his* financial account, but you need to set it up so that YOU are the only one with online access (change the password to one that only you know so that he can't go in and change it when he gets *mad* at you and wants to act out). And then he has to account for every cent that he spends. If he takes out $200, then he needs to have receipts in hand and change in pocket that adds up to $200.

Second. He doesn't get to attend his *boy's trip*. Period. If he insists on going, then he needs to be ready to *bunk up* with one of those guys when he gets back because you will be seeing a L while he's gone.

Third. About the weekend trip he's proposing......this is a judgment call. The problem with *gaslighters* is that you will be told <something> that sounds plausible and that you want to believe and so you WILL believe it. Until your brain actually sifts through the info and processes it and THEN you'll find 10,000 holes in the explanation. During that processing time, life is *grand*....you're hugging/kissing on your spouse because you're feeling as if they are still your *partner* and then BAM! The realization that your spouse has just purposefully mis-directed you hits and life goes immediately to shit. It's a roller-coaster for you......but it's also really, really hard on your kids. One minute mom and dad are all lovey-dovey and then the next minute -- there are daggers flying out of their eyes at each other. Even if you and your WH don't actively argue and fight in front of the kids -- the tension is there and the kids have a very good *read* on the tone of the family.

As to the poly. If you are financially comfortable, then sure. Make him take a poly. The thing is, though, that I think that you have barely scratched the surface on your WH's misbehaviors and so a poly will have to be re-taken in the future. But a poly at this point in time will be a waste of your money, imo. You KNOW he's lying. A poly is only going to affirm that....it's not going to give you any details as to *what* he's lying about.


Nora mentioned a recent post about gaslighting. There has been a lot of gaslighting talk recently, so I'm not sure if this is the one she's referring to or not, but here's the link to it:
http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=521304


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8034 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
BeautifulEmpty
Member
Member # 38763
Default  Posted: 2:15 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)

You've had excellent advice here...some I wish I had gotten when my family was in this place.
One thing that stands out clearly when you spend just a little time reading here on SI is that while everyone's story has differences of some sort, almost without fail, Wandering Spouses all play from the same game book and everyone giving you advice now has experienced some or all of it.

Logically, I understand that. But I still love him so much. I love our little life. I don't want to lost any part of it.

I am sorry to say this but if you don't 180 him hard, you will very likely lose everything you hold dear in regards to him.
He is not treating you I the same way you think of him. You still love him softly, sweetly, tenderly, passionately (I assume, from your tone) and you treat him like your best friend but he is not treating you like his. The 180 is for you...to help you catch a breath from all the roller coaster disaster infidelity causes. It allows you to withdraw in a healthy way and as any number of BS can attest, it can lead to your spouse pulling his head out of his ass long enough to realize how awful he's acting...but even if he doesn't, you will have a chance at thinking more clearly.
No chores for him.
No special anything...looks, touches, snuggles, hugs...not a damned thing.
He does not exist except where you cannot help it like financial decisions or child questions....but nothing loving or personal. No explaining.
No excuses.

Go call a lawyer.
Go to the doctor.
Find hobbies that don't involve him. Go to yoga or meditation. Book club or find a group of interest like people who do urban homesteading and get together to learn bee keeping or cheese making...whatever. My point is, fill your time with things you love or things you've never tried before. Do things, just you and your kids but make sure you schedule just you things as well.
Keep doing them.
If your best friend is still in there, he may come out and start deciding to make changes so you want to look at him again but if he doesn't or if you decide that you really prefer your life without him (it happens quite often!), you will have filled your life with things you love, new friends, fun times, learning and light. It can only bring you good.

If he starts suffering, do not cave the second his little lip starts to quiver.
You take care of you. Protect your assets and let him prove himself with ACTIONS. His words are lies.

I wish I had found SI back then and had the guidance I've read here. I naturally 180 but I cave to easily. I didn't always read the signs right because I was too hurt and too much in love...completely missing that I was the only one acting in love.

Anyways...please, please listen. You cannot love things right.
You can be wonderful every moment and he will keep on doing what he's doing because he has no reason to quit.
You can't fix this because you didn't ruin it but you can control you and that is a powerful thing in this darkness.

(((Hugs)))


Me: 42 BS
Him: 38 ws
Ow: 44 head case, no obs
5 DD's: 21, 18, 17, 15, 10
Last D-day: August 2012 with lots of very blurry lines.

Posts: 264 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Washington State
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)

Anyways...please, please listen. You cannot love things right.
You can be wonderful every moment and he will keep on doing what he's doing because he has no reason to quit.
You can't fix this because you didn't ruin it but you can control you and that is a powerful thing in this darkness.

This is such truth.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4190 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)

Ok, I've read over everything that has been said. Some things are dead on, some things are just a bit off, but I'm not discounting any advice at all because I need every ounce of it.

So my H and I are very intertwined. Close. We typically tell each other everything, every little detail. The current situation, excluded obviously.
We carpool together and usually are together every waking and sleeping moment except for work hours and work/fun trips.

So yesterday when I tried the 180 he knew instantly, the second I got in the car when he picked me up from work. I could tell it made him mad. I didn't know if I should tell him what I was doing or not... so it was really confusing for him. It felt AWFUL for me. I wish I could just tell him what's going on! But I am really taking the advice to heart, so I didn't let him in at all. I wasn't mean to him or even cold. Just... detached. It was hard for me.

It didn't take him long to become unhinged. He had a work problem blow up on him once we got home and he wasn't able to solve it. It's not good because we're both so close to losing our jobs because last week was total destruction - neither of us functioned at all or did anything right at work. ANYWAY, he started throwing things around in his office and having a little hissy fit. We got through dinner (I actually ate! It was all an act!) and then he went for a snowmobile ride. I know the loop that he goes on near our house and I wasn't at all worried. Felt good to get him out of the house. Less pressure.

I took a bath, he sent a text picture of where he was. I ignored it. When he got home I was cleaning up and getting ready for bed. He asked if I wanted to watch TV, I told him I was tired and going to bed. He tearfully told me he didn't think he could stay with me. He was shaking. I ignored him and went to bed. A few minutes later I heard him slam the door and take off on the snowmobile again. I was actually able to sleep. I don't know why it feels good to see him get riled.

This morning we ignored each other for the most part. After he left I installed a keylogger on his computer. I'm considering installing something on his phone as well.

Keeping up with the 180 is going to be so hard. Can anyone offer advice on this? It's not at all my nature.

Thanks!


Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
ClearEyes12
New Member
Member # 42250
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)

Oh! He was also SO PISSED because I haven't been wearing my rings.

Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)

Agree with others...NO trips.

He will rant and rave and balk like an ass. DO NOT give in. I gave in to my H working one last time with the AP...I was absolutely sick during that time. I left him...Dear John letter and all. I just could not handle the fact that he still was putting himself and his self-image before me. It sent us back to Dday 1. If you let him go...you will worry all the time and it will add suspicion to everything again.

You can't trust him...Hell he can't even trust himself. It is time for him to make a choice.

I went through a phase where I didn't wear my rings either. Yeah...that usually pisses them off.

Good work...keeping pushing through and don't let him make you feel bad with the "I can't stay married to you bit." That is just his way of fishing for you to cave in to his needs and behavior.

You really can't love them out of this...they need to be scared shitless.

There is a reason why all the WS talk about not realizing what they have till they lose it.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)

SOOOO proud of you that you did that, I know what stage you are at and I know how hard this is to do. And please know....this IS the very hard part for a BS....because at the end of the day only WE can determine our fate with someone who is betraying us and disrespecting us. Its like an abused spouse...so many people tell you what to do but you don't or can't see it because for you it seems like "love".

So against the grain, walk thru the fire, even if it hurts, do what you know is the right thing if your own daughter was sitting there watching you. And keep doing it even it it goes against every grain in your body. Cuz thats they way change will happen.

I hope the best for you.


Posts: 5662 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)

Typical man child temper tantrum. Self centered, selfish, arrogant, entitled, brats. Its manipulation to put the focus on him. It's all about ME ME ME! By ignoring him you are not following the script and its throwing him off and frustrating the hell out of him. I hope you can stay the course. Wait it out and see what he does next. I, for one, think the key logger will clear a lot up for you. Hang in there.


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 747 | Registered: Apr 2013
BeautifulEmpty
Member
Member # 38763
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)

Good for you...the tantrums are the hardest...no wait...the love bombs are what would usually confuse the hell out of me. No wait, it was me very best friend derailing our life so he could "be himself".
No wait...
It's all freaking hard. You are doing great...keep focusing on you and your healing.

(((Hugs)))


Me: 42 BS
Him: 38 ws
Ow: 44 head case, no obs
5 DD's: 21, 18, 17, 15, 10
Last D-day: August 2012 with lots of very blurry lines.

Posts: 264 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Washington State
Topic Posts: 39